dspMusikLCD system

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HAL

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dspMusikLCD system
« on: 27 Sep 2017, 05:05 pm »
The dspMusik LCD has arrived.

The system besides having the original USB, S/PDIF and Analog inputs with 8 channel DAC outputs now has both an optical encoder/switch and IR receiver for front panel and remote control operation. Digital Volume control, mute, ADC and DAC filter selection, selectable attenuators for both the ADC and DAC and input selection are available via the IR remote and encoder.

All processing is still 40bit floating point /192KHz stereo signals from the input selected. ADC and DAC's are 32bit/192KHz with the new AKM devices.

The system is programmed for the customers requirements for digital crossover with the controls for the above capabilities now available directly from the dspMusik. It is supplied with a Windows compatible USB device driver. Apple OSX will see it as an ASIO audio device.

Contact me with your details for more information, or post questions in the thread.   Demo system trials can be arranged by contacting me.



HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #1 on: 27 Sep 2017, 05:06 pm »
Interesting to see MiniDSP now has a 4x10 system that has 8 balanced outputs via terminal block connections to the external equipment.  Still using fixed point processing and at a max rate of 24bit/96KHz. 

The dspMusikLCD is actually a 6x10 system now with stereo S/PDIF, USB2 and Analog inputs with 8 HiRez AK4495S DAC outputs running at 32bit/192KHz and USB2 output.  Full floating point 40bit DSP processing with Audio Weaver as the development front end for the ADSP21479 processor.  The dspMusik has been using TRS balanced connections for over 8 years for driving either balanced or unbalanced systems. 

The front panel now shows the system settings for use with either the rotary encoder or IR remote supplied.

Anyone interested in trying the dspMusikLCD please contact me for trials.

WC

Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #2 on: 27 Sep 2017, 05:42 pm »
minidsp still shows Phoenix connectors for their Balanced connections on the 4x10HD. Where did you see that?

HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #3 on: 27 Sep 2017, 06:04 pm »
When I looked at the latest 4x10 chassis, looked like them next to the terminal blocks.   See now they are RCA's and terminal blocks instead for balanced. 

Fixed the post above.

studley

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JBL M2
« Reply #4 on: 7 Oct 2017, 02:24 pm »
Hi
I have the M2s.  As you may well know these are 2 way speakers that are designed to use an external DSP crossover.  I currently use 2 x miniDSP OpenDRC DI units ( 1 for each speaker) which feed 2 x stereo DACs.
These units use some of the better SHARC modules.  However I'm just wondering whether your DSP unit would offer superior performance?  I would BTW want to still use my own DACs.   Would welcome your thoughts.

TomS

Re: JBL M2
« Reply #5 on: 7 Oct 2017, 03:22 pm »
Hi
I have the M2s.  As you may well know these are 2 way speakers that are designed to use an external DSP crossover.  I currently use 2 x miniDSP OpenDRC DI units ( 1 for each speaker) which feed 2 x stereo DACs.
These units use some of the better SHARC modules.  However I'm just wondering whether your DSP unit would offer superior performance?  I would BTW want to still use my own DACs.   Would welcome your thoughts.
Also curious to know if this would work for M2's with just USB in and then 4 DAC outputs to 4 amplifier channels, bypassing the JBL DSP settings?

Is the digital volume control suitable to use without an analog preamp (for analog attenuation and remote capability)?

studley

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Re: JBL M2
« Reply #6 on: 8 Oct 2017, 05:19 pm »
Also curious to know if this would work for M2's with just USB in and then 4 DAC outputs to 4 amplifier channels, bypassing the JBL DSP settings?

Is the digital volume control suitable to use without an analog preamp (for analog attenuation and remote capability)?
Not sure I understand what you mean by "bypassing the JBL DSP settings".  The M2s absolutely require DSP to work properly.

studley

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #7 on: 8 Oct 2017, 05:23 pm »
Just checked; the SHARC modules in my miniDSP units are ADSP 21369s

TomS

Re: JBL M2
« Reply #8 on: 8 Oct 2017, 05:39 pm »
Not sure I understand what you mean by "bypassing the JBL DSP settings".  The M2s absolutely require DSP to work properly.
I meant to implement the dsp in the Danville instead of the Crown amp.

studley

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Re: JBL M2
« Reply #9 on: 8 Oct 2017, 06:16 pm »
I meant to implement the dsp in the Danville instead of the Crown amp.

Ah right.  That's basically what I'm asking, except I also want to use my own DACs.

HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #10 on: 8 Oct 2017, 09:04 pm »
The dspMusikLCD uses the ADSP21479 DSP and only has HiRez DAC outputs.  No digital data outputs.

If the M2 digital crossover is published, I can look at the design.  Of not Clayton would have to ok it.


Jonathon Janusz

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #11 on: 8 Oct 2017, 09:52 pm »
The dspMusikLCD uses the ADSP21479 DSP and only has HiRez DAC outputs.  No digital data outputs.

If the M2 digital crossover is published, I can look at the design.  Of not Clayton would have to ok it.

Rich, the above posts are not asking about using dspMusikLCD as a crossover for the Spatial Audio M2 (Clayton Shaw).  They are asking about using it in place of the Crown DCI series amps, iTech series amps, the BSS London sound processors, or the new Inonato controller to act as the active crossover for the JBL M2 studio monitors.  The JBLs require crossovers and filtering preprogrammed by JBL and uploaded into any of the above Harman group electronics to run.

I mentioned this in passing in the JBL M2 thread elsewhere on AC in that maybe your solution would offer a "better" audiophile solution to the active crossover solution for the JBL M2 than the OEM solutions, either through  a "better" DAC section in the dspMusik and or providing a "higher quality" option than a miniDSP (aftermarket) or BSS (OEM) outboard DSP/crossover to allow the use of various non-Crown (or not Mark Levinson) amps with the JBL M2.  As an example, one notable consistent gripe from prospective "audiophile" JBL M2 buyers is the fan noise from the Crown/iTech amps if they are placed in the listening room with the speakers rather than an outside electronics closet.

JBL (for obvious reasons) has not nor will likely plainly publish in plain text the settings contained in the configuration files for the JBL M2 that would be loaded into their electronics as they (for a lot of reasons) wish to sell the JBL M2 as a complete, proprietary, and fully integrated system.  However, a little digging around the Internet would get one a pretty complete picture of the settings required to implement the crossover taken from data collected by various owners of the Harman electronics who have discussed the settings online.

For what it is worth and for sake of reference, regarding JBL's evolved stance on the DIY market and the JBL M2, the street price of the D2 compression driver mysteriously went from $300 to $2000 overnight and rumor on the Internet suggests that ordering from JBL as a service part now requires a M2 serial number.  Again, for what should be obvious reasons, JBL has seemingly been trying to close loopholes that were benign and practically very helpful in supporting the professional sound community/industry in regards to information sharing and parts availability, but have kind of taken on a (from a business perspective) monstrous life of their own in the hands of DIY audio hobbyists.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but as I might have suggested in the other JBL M2 thread, it might be worthwhile to some to pair the JBL M2 speaker system with (comparatively) cost no object electronics outside of the Harman group ecosystem. 

Slightly aside, frankly, I'm kind of surprised that no one (in the pro side of things or the audio hobbyists) has yet invested the time and effort into taking apart the LSR 705/708i and fully developing the passive crossover in it, or developing completely a passive crossover for the JBL M2.  Just to head off concerned parties at the pass, yes, I'm fully aware that this action directly defeats the whole purpose of the fully active system as packaged and sold by Harman, is so far out of anything serviceable as a warranty issue as to be laughable, and opens a continuously heated debate about "performance".  However, much like the completely DIY builds of the JBL M2 speakers themselves, all of those arguments or debates completely miss the point of such an endeavor just as much as doing so completely misses the point of accepting the system at face value as advertised.

studley

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #12 on: 8 Oct 2017, 10:18 pm »
Many thanks for that JJ.  I certainly thought the M2s deserved better than Crown amps / DACs and I only bought the M2s because of the OpenDRC DI solution that POS had worked out and made available on the Lansing Heritage Forum - POS has made available the FIR settings that exactly replicate the DS processing of the stock JBL solutions.  Using the OpenDRC DI units allows you to use DACs and amps of your choice.  So now the weakest link in my chain is the OpenDRC units, hence my interest in finding something better.  THis is not to say my system sounds bad, on the contrary it sounds absolutely fabulous.  However there's little doubt that the M2s rank amongst the finest speakers on the planet and they deserve the very best in associated equipment.  I can provide that in my choice of amps and DACs, but the DSP choice is currently limited. . . . .

HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #13 on: 9 Oct 2017, 02:19 am »
Jonathan,
Thanks for the clarification.

Since the dspMusikLCD has no digital outputs to drive user dacs, it will not work for the application as requested.  It has its own HiRez dacs to use, so that is possible. 

Best I can offer if wanted.

Thanks,
Rich

TomS

Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #14 on: 9 Oct 2017, 02:32 am »
Jonathan,
Thanks for the clarification.

Since the dspMusikLCD has no digital outputs to drive user dacs, it will not work for the application as requested.  It has its own HiRez dacs to use, so that is possible. 

Best I can offer if wanted.

Thanks,
Rich
Rich,

What I was suggesting is to use 4 DAC outputs to drive the 4 amplifier channels (analog) for the (JBL) M2's, which are 2-ways.

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #15 on: 9 Oct 2017, 03:15 am »
It has its own HiRez dacs to use, so that is possible. 

This, I think, is one of the advantages the dspMusik may have over existing solutions.  In addition to the DSP functionality that would allow one to break free of Harman electronics if one so chose, including a top shelf DAC solution in one box could be both a step up from existing solutions as well as keep the box count down for those already using these systems in what for the Harman configurations is likely the simplest possible scenario - 2-channel (4 DSP channels) stereo playback.  The BSS BLU-50 offers a similar streamlined system for the low channel count necessary I/O, but does not include a DAC.  Where a minimal box setup right now would be source-DAC-Harman amps, in this case one could have source - dspMusik - amps, still a pretty minimalist hardware setup. 

Also, I wonder out loud if there might be some advantage in this setup by being able to do everything with the source signal in the digital domain with only the final digtial-analog conversion for the signal to go out to the amps.  Currently, if I am seeing all this correctly, the cleanest signal path for a digital source to the JBL M2 includes a DAC from the source into the DSP processor, ADC at the processor, DAC out of the processor to the amps (an internally wired run on the Crown amps, externally with the BSS processors).  The theoretical advantage with the dspMusik is being able to cut out a DAC and ADC step in exchange for an external run of balanced interconnects out to whatever amps are used - like the BSS solution but with a DAC that can be fed directly from the source. 

Again, heading off a potential fight on the Internet, whether one feels a choice of DAC on the front end at the source, run through Crown's (BSS/Harman's) DACs in the DSP unit is better/worse/no different than just running the source through the dspMusik's DACs straight to the output is likely a mostly subjective debate, as I'm sure on paper  both solutions measure objectively either "exceptionally" or at the very least capably to their respective designed target performance metrics.  Bottom line is that the dspMusik - so long as it can implement all of the exact filters exactly as specified by JBL (I think one of the keys is FIR filtering which if I am remembering correctly the dspMusik can do?) - could add an attractive option for implementing the JBL M2 in a home stereo system not currently available on offer.

So, Tom... you don't happen to have a pair of JBL M2 to ship off to Rich to play with? ;)

HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #16 on: 9 Oct 2017, 07:26 am »
Rich,

What I was suggesting is to use 4 DAC outputs to drive the 4 amplifier channels (analog) for the (JBL) M2's, which are 2-ways.
Tom,
Yes, in my case I would prefer to use the DAC outputs to directly drive the amps as I do here.  Using external dacs means another digital interface like S/PDIF, where the internal buses to the DACs are low jitter I2S Bus' clocks. 

Using just four channels is fine.  The other four can be used for something like bass management, for multiple subs.  Lots of flexibility. In configuration.  And with 8 channel remote volume control with IR receiver and LCD display with volume level in 0.5dB steps, easy to use once the crossover design is done and loaded.

This also answers some of Jonathan's questions as well I believe.

Rich

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #17 on: 9 Oct 2017, 07:34 am »
Jonathan,
If I understand, I can just send a measurement system to get the crossover response plots to use to develop the digital crossover.  No need to ship the speakers.  Just response at the driver terminals is needed.  Sounds like data exists.

Same method used to make the LS-9 digital crossover from the analog design. 

Rich

Jonathon Janusz

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #18 on: 9 Oct 2017, 12:59 pm »
Jonathan,
If I understand, I can just send a measurement system to get the crossover response plots to use to develop the digital crossover.  No need to ship the speakers.  Just response at the driver terminals is needed.  Sounds like data exists.

Same method used to make the LS-9 digital crossover from the analog design. 

Rich

I think this one would be even simpler than that for most home user installations, aside from adjustments to taste for an individual room.  Cloning the settings from the JBL tuning files would result in a plug and play replacement crossover using JBL's lab tested reference values.  The only thing in this case measuring speakers in a listening room would get is any minor adjustments one might want to make for a specific installation.

Now all we would need is an AC member with a pair of M2 that would be interested in comparing a dspMusik implementation to a JBL stock one...  :thumb:

HAL

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Re: dspMusikLCD system
« Reply #19 on: 9 Oct 2017, 02:16 pm »
Jonathan,
To answer your other question, the dspMusikLCD does have FIR filtering available.  There are also generic biqiad filters for arbitrary filter designs, not limited to standard alignments. 

Think of it as the MATLAB signal processing pack for real time use with also custom designed high resolution filters. 

Rich