The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread

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jriggy

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #60 on: 9 Sep 2017, 02:36 pm »
There may be ripping services which will do SACDs for you, but I know of none myself.

Maybe Tyson here on AC is still offering it...

yardbird4

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #61 on: 9 Sep 2017, 06:13 pm »
Thanks all. I was just hoping their was an easy way to do it.  If it involves extensive tinkering or paying for a service to do it ... probably not worth it to me as I don't have an extensive collection.  I have them all on CD so probably next step would be to get them on vinyl and call it a day.

Mitch751

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #62 on: 12 Sep 2017, 12:54 am »
The DAC arrived yesterday, it takes time to Syndey, Australia. Have a run with USB input, the sound indeed very outstanding, a signifcant improvement over dac 1.

This morning have a try with Optical and Coaxial inputs (I think most of us are being concerate on listening with USB), but hava a same probelm, the sound mutes after a minute play.

I have to switch the input selector, and the sound is back however, it mutes after a minute.

I thought may be is my CD transport or cables, therefore, I changed them, the same issue happens.

I replaced the DAC 2.0 with 1.0, the 1.0 does not have this probelm

Anyone has the same problem or have you tried ?

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #63 on: 12 Sep 2017, 01:19 am »
The DAC arrived yesterday, it takes time to Syndey, Australia. Have a run with USB input, the sound indeed very outstanding, a signifcant improvement over dac 1.

This morning have a try with Optical and Coaxial inputs (I think most of us are being concerate on listening with USB), but hava a same probelm, the sound mutes after a minute play.

I have to switch the input selector, and the sound is back however, it mutes after a minute.

I thought may be is my CD transport or cables, therefore, I changed them, the same issue happens.

I replaced the DAC 2.0 with 1.0, the 1.0 does not have this probelm

Anyone has the same problem or have you tried ?

Hi Mitch751,

Yes, I have two other customers who recently mentioned this to me.  USB has been fine, but it is looking like there is a bug with the SPDIF inputs.

I thought it was an issue between the transport and the DAC 2.0 (as I have not been able to replicate it here with my CD transport, so I never caught wind of this), but now I'm thinking it could be something going on with the SPDIF receiver chip that handles the coax and optical.

I'm looking into it and will be all week.... and I'll post updates soon.

Thanks for your patience with this,

Vinnie

Mitch751

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #64 on: 12 Sep 2017, 02:18 am »
Thank you, Vinnie

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #65 on: 14 Sep 2017, 02:03 am »
All,

UPDATE on the issue on the coax (BNC) and optical (TOSLINK) S/PDIF inputs:

1) I believe I have it all figured out, but tomorrow I want to spend the day doing lots of testing
under different scenarios to confirm it is now rock-solid, and then I plan to start shipping
again on Friday.  :hyper:  :whip:

2) I have confirmed that this issue does NOT apply to the USB input.  It only applies if
you are using the coax or optical inputs.

3) I will post more info about it tomorrow evening, but I first want to do (1) above.

4) If all looks good to go after tomorrow, I plan to have the majority of LIO DAC 2.0 orders shipped by the end of next week

5) I have quite a few LIO units in the shop for the DAC 2.0 installation.  I hope to get them shipped out on Friday
and early next week.  I will then be emailing others in the queue who want to ship their LIO to me for the DAC 2.0
installation, as I'll be ready by then to provide a quick turn-around.

Thanks for all your patience with this!

Vinnie

Mitch751

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #66 on: 14 Sep 2017, 03:27 am »
Thank you Vinnie, always great service provided

borelek

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #67 on: 14 Sep 2017, 05:15 pm »
Got my LIO DAC 2.0 finally.
I succeeded to put all in order of work despite my two left handed skill.

Very good sound already
lets go to the burn it in

Thanks for all Vinnie.

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #68 on: 14 Sep 2017, 11:07 pm »
All,

Good news!  :singing:   I have a solution for the LIO DAC 2.0 module's SPDIF issue that some of you reported to be about.  :idea:

I now have 4 customers who have contacted me stating that only when using coax or optical inputs (INPUT D1 or D2), the
sound would mute unexpectedly.

After lots of hunting for this issue, I found that there are two digital input select lines going to a microcontroller on DAC 2.0 bottom PCB.  They receive the signal from the LIO when you select your DAC 2.0 input.  They are quite "sensitive."

By adding a decoupling capacitor to each line, the problem is resolved.  I tried all day to replicate it... so I feel good about this solution.

1) To those 4 customers who contacted me regarding this issue with their DAC 2.0, please send me your module and I'll add the capacitors to the board and then ship back ASAP to you.  I'll be emailing you as well in case you do not read this forum often.

2) To those who have the DAC 2.0 board and are only using the USB input, no worries - this issue is only for the SPDIF inputs.  So no rush to ship back to me (send  it the next time you'll be away on a business trip, vacation, etc.).  You can send it in at any time that is convenient for you.

3) To everyone who did not yet receive their DAC 2.0 modules (I know, there are still many of you out there!), I plan to ship more tomorrow and all throughout next week.  By the end of next week, I plan to have *most* of the DAC 2.0 orders shipped out.

And as I wrote in my last post above:

I have quite a few LIO units in the shop for the DAC 2.0 installation.  I hope to get them shipped out on Friday (tomorrow)
and early next week.  I will then be emailing others in the queue who want to ship their LIO to me for the DAC 2.0
installation, as I'll be ready by then to provide a quick turn-around.

So all is BACK ON TRACK!  8)

Thanks again for all your patience with this,

Vinnie

jpm

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #69 on: 14 Sep 2017, 11:31 pm »
Vinnie - you continue to demonstrate the benefits of operating a nimble small business, bravo!

As the LIO platform evolves, you may feel the need to enlist the support of (more?) beta testers in your development process. As such, I'd like to take a step forward to volunteer and will be happy to discuss supporting qualifications if you're ever interested :)

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #70 on: 17 Sep 2017, 07:10 pm »
Vinnie - you continue to demonstrate the benefits of operating a nimble small business, bravo!

As the LIO platform evolves, you may feel the need to enlist the support of (more?) beta testers in your development process. As such, I'd like to take a step forward to volunteer and will be happy to discuss supporting qualifications if you're ever interested :)

Hi jpm,

Beta testers sounds like a good idea in the future, and thank you for your interest in volunteering!

Best regards,

Vinnie

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #71 on: 20 Sep 2017, 02:37 pm »

UPDATE 9/20:

As of yesterday, nearly all of the LIO DAC 2.0 orders have shipped!  :dance:   There are only a few of you left who I have emailed
to send in your LIO for the DAC 2.0 installation.

So hopefully over the next week or two, more listening impressions will be posted to this thread.  It will be much appreciated!

I'll also have LIO DAC 2.0 playing at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest next month, and after the show, my next batch of DAC 2.0
modules should be in stock.

Thanks again, everyone!

Vinnie

yardbird4

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #72 on: 20 Sep 2017, 05:19 pm »
An Now for ........ Phono Stage 2.0?  Ultra-capacitor Power Regenerator 1.0? (On my wish list) :D :P :P  What's next Vinnie?

Mitch751

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #73 on: 21 Sep 2017, 01:27 am »
Vinnie - you continue to demonstrate the benefits of operating a nimble small business, bravo!

As the LIO platform evolves, you may feel the need to enlist the support of (more?) beta testers in your development process. As such, I'd like to take a step forward to volunteer and will be happy to discuss supporting qualifications if you're ever interested :)

The new one arrived this morning, have it installed and have been running more than one hour, the LIO DAC 2.0 module's SPDIF issue seems solved ....thank you Vinnie for the great work.

I will post the Dac 1 and 2 asap

borelek

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #74 on: 21 Sep 2017, 08:50 am »
This DAC 2.0 sounds very good. I really like my Isabellina, I really liked the Dac 1.0. And I still listen the first. But there is a sweetness in the DAC 2.0 that makes very difficult to go away from the listening area.
I know Vinnie and most of you are listen through Roon, as I do as well most of the time, but please give a try to Audirvana. The overall impression seems not so different of Roon, but the details are sooo much ... detailed.

I don't use SPDIF, but as I take two weeks of vacation, I'll send the Dac 2.0 back to you, Vinnie.

About beta testers : I think as Vinnie gave us a good price for the first batches, we are kind of beta testers. And please don't worry, Vinnie, for this little (and rare) flaw. I am (and I'm sure, we are) very happy to help you in the process toward the good sound.
« Last Edit: 21 Sep 2017, 02:31 pm by borelek »

jpm

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #75 on: 21 Sep 2017, 08:06 pm »
About 28 hours in with LIO DAC 2.0 now.  I've not been seeking out specific music trying to make detailed comparisons, just listening as I normally would.

Early observations:

6 to 8 hours of playing seemed to get the sound to round out well
Improved micro detail and decay an separation is the biggest impression so far
TIDAL's "Legends: Beck" playlist is proving to be a spectacular experience with the depth and details of arrangements easily accessible


jpm

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #76 on: 21 Sep 2017, 08:17 pm »
About beta testers : I think as Vinnie gave us a good price for the first batches, we are kind of beta testers. And please don't worry, Vinnie, for this little (and rare) flaw. I am (and I'm sure, we are) very happy to help you in the process toward the good sound.

No disagreement. However, from a complexity perspective the DAC module probably has to handle to greatest potential variability supporting external digital transport devices that are evolving rapidly ... fortunately for Vinnie and all of us, the fix required sounds relatively straightforward. Helping Vinnie to ensure avoidance of costly design and / or production changes was my main concern.

borelek

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #77 on: 21 Sep 2017, 08:28 pm »
I strongly agree. Perfect formulation, jpm. Thanks for that, not easy for to be so clear in English as a French speaking person.

jpm

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Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #78 on: 21 Sep 2017, 09:36 pm »
... another DAC observation (especially for any Del Amitri fans) in the opening bars of "Just Before You Leave" from "Can You Do Me Good?", the realism of the harp knocked me back in my seat, not to mention the ease with which I was able to distinguish individual voices in the backing vocals ...

The crashing guitars in "Drunk in a Band", a sound that's especially difficult to reproduce as anything other than guitar-ish noise, sounds like exactly what it really is.

and BTW - if you are a Del Amitri fan, do not miss "The Uncle Devil Show" which is a recording not a TV show, but enjoys some fantastically playful lyrics.

Vinnie R.

Re: The LIO DAC 2.0 information and discussion thread
« Reply #79 on: 22 Sep 2017, 03:29 pm »
All,

Thank you for posting your initial impressions of LIO DAC 2.0!  :singing:

Quote
the realism of the harp knocked me back in my seat, not to mention the ease with which I was able to distinguish individual voices in the backing vocals ...

Quote
Improved micro detail and decay an separation is the biggest impression so far

Hi jpm,

Yes, DAC 2.0 certainly does a much better job with unraveling the layers in the music and subtle details/decays, and like Borelek mentions, has a sweetness (overall, just more natural with many genres of music) that keeps you wanting to listen for hours.
 

All,

A few questions that have come up that I'd like to address about DAC 2.0:

1) Heat:  The heatsink on the back of DAC 2.0 is supposed to get warm/hot.  No worries, as the main input regulator on the other side is spec'd at operating temperatures much higher than what it runs at.  Just make sure you attached the rear plate of DAC 2.0 to LIO's rear panel via the 4 hex nuts.  Make them snug, but do not over-tighten as they can snap.

There is a lot more circuitry in DAC 2.0 that draws more current (generates more heat) than DAC 1.0:  For example, the FPGA buffer/reclock circuitry, the dual flagship AKM d/a converters consume more power, and that Class A output stages consumes a lot more
power than an opamp output stage, and there are more linear voltage regulators used throughout.  The heat is also spread out over 3 stacked PCBs instead of 2 PCBs.   

Playing at higher sampling rates (e.g. upsampling to DSD512) also consumes more power = more heat.  This is "normal."


2) Between switching digital inputs, you will find that there is some delay (a few seconds) with DAC 2.0 compared to DAC 1.0.  This is also normal and due to the new data buffering / re-clock circuitry.


3) I understand that there are many audiophile USB cables, and some of you own them and want to try.  That's fine - but just please keep in mind that if they don't comply with USB 2.0 specifications, they *might* have issues from drop-outs (especially at higher sampling rates) to not working at all. 

I have used a 6 foot and 15 foot Belkin Gold USB 2.0 cables with no issues at 768kHz PCM or DSD512 (but keep in mind that your computer must also be up to the task of playback at these rates):




4) As for other devices in the USB path (isolation devices, regens, and the like), feel free to try them, but you might be surprised that  you prefer LIO DAC 2.0 connected directly to your USB source.  Try it and see what sounds better to you, and thank you for posting your findings here!


As many of you are now receiving your DAC 2.0s, I want to thank you all in advance for posting your listening impressions here (and follow-ups as your burn-in your DAC 2.0 and put it through its paces).  :notworthy:

I'll have LIO Integrated configured with DAC 2.0 in two rooms at RMAF in just a few weeks - I hope to see you there!

Vinnie