Spatial M3 Triode Master

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harley.guy07

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Spatial M3 Triode Master
« on: 4 Apr 2017, 05:51 am »



Looked at the Spatial Audio website tonight and this is on the front page. Very nice! This will be great for the tube guys as it is way more of a realistic load for tube amps unlike the 4ohm load of my M3 t S'S Which can be problematic with some tube amps. It says they are using a new M35 compression driver that is dipolar and crosses over at 700 hertz not 800 like the normal M3, Very much would like to hear them

nicoch

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #1 on: 4 Apr 2017, 07:10 am »
is not 4ohm the problem!  all tube amp have the 4ohm tap x that...
is the  phase,  a good phase can be have with 4 ohm too

glynnw

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #2 on: 4 Apr 2017, 05:41 pm »
MANY tube amps (like my Shindo) have nothing but a 16 Ohm output, not 4 OHM.  I plan to see if Spatial will sell an update kit, since I have those speakers.

zybar

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #3 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:37 pm »
MANY tube amps (like my Shindo) have nothing but a 16 Ohm output, not 4 OHM.  I plan to see if Spatial will sell an update kit, since I have those speakers.

Not sure if Clayton will sell an upgrade kit, but I definitely know that you can send your current speakers to him to be upgraded.

Also, this upgrade isn't just about being more tube friendly.  The new compression driver will improve the sound regardless if one is using tubes or solid state.

George

schw06

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #4 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:42 pm »
Not sure if Clayton will sell an upgrade kit, but I definitely know that you can send your current speakers to him to be upgraded.

Also, this upgrade isn't just about being more tube friendly.  The new compression driver will improve the sound regardless if one is using tubes or solid state.

George
As far as I know no kit but fortunately the speakers aren't a bear to ship. Will be boxing mine up for the upgrade shortly.
David

glynnw

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #5 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:53 pm »
What is he charging for an upgrade?

schw06

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #6 on: 4 Apr 2017, 08:58 pm »
What is he charging for an upgrade?
Clayton is going to be posting the details for everyone. He is also working on the details for M4 owners that want to transform them as well.
David

JackD

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #7 on: 5 Apr 2017, 12:33 am »
David

Are you having yours transformed into the Triode Master version or just upgrading the compression driver and appropriate parts?  In my case I am not going to use mine with tubes so just upgrading the compression driver, wiring and crossover parts would suffice.  That would seem to be a fairly simple swap for him as opposed to swapping out all the drivers. 

Jack

schw06

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #8 on: 5 Apr 2017, 01:03 am »
David

Are you having yours transformed into the Triode Master version or just upgrading the compression driver and appropriate parts?  In my case I am not going to use mine with tubes so just upgrading the compression driver, wiring and crossover parts would suffice.  That would seem to be a fairly simple swap for him as opposed to swapping out all the drivers. 

Jack
Jack,
   Upgrading the compression driver, wiring, and crossover parts makes it a triode master and that is the plan for me. Clayton says it's a quick turnaround.
David

JackD

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #9 on: 5 Apr 2017, 02:07 am »
Would interested to how he came to that using those Eminence woofers, but looking forward to hearing your impression and others after the "upgrade."  For me is more interesting than moving to the X-1 with the multiple amps and DSP involved.  Packing mine up might be in the near future.

nicoch

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #10 on: 5 Apr 2017, 01:59 pm »
MANY tube amps (like my Shindo) have nothing but a 16 Ohm output, not 4 OHM.  I plan to see if Spatial will sell an update kit, since I have those speakers.
you are very unlucky ,only 16ohm is very rare... you know that the world standard is 8ohm ?

schw06

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #11 on: 5 Apr 2017, 07:07 pm »
I called Clayton after seeing the impedance and phase graphs he posted on the Triode Master to get a clearer understanding of the meaning and significance of them. Not being an engineer, I did not have a full appreciation of their importance. I think it would be helpful for those people considering the speaker to get the information he provided and I asked him if he'd post on this thread or on his website and I would post a link to it.

Spatial Audio

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #12 on: 5 Apr 2017, 09:49 pm »
I called Clayton after seeing the impedance and phase graphs he posted on the Triode Master to get a clearer understanding of the meaning and significance of them. Not being an engineer, I did not have a full appreciation of their importance. I think it would be helpful for those people considering the speaker to get the information he provided and I asked him if he'd post on this thread or on his website and I would post a link to it.

Hi David,

The key to achieving good loudspeaker matching with tube amplifiers is that the speaker exhibit both high impedance as well a reasonably smooth impedance curve. The phase performance will indicate whether the amp will sound good into a given load. You can see in the graph of the M3 Triode Master that the nominal impedance is around 16Ω with a very flat phase plot. Abrupt changes in the phase curve indicate reactance. An upward tend reveals capacitive reactance, where a downward slope reveals inductive reactance. These variations in the load can change the frequency response of the amplifier and are responsible for the poor sound often encountered when connecting to normal speakers. The M3 TM's high sensitivity of 92dB is of course, a great benefit as well. The efficiency due to the 16Ω load equates to 95dB.





Clayton Shaw
Spatial Audio Lab
www.spatialaudio.us

« Last Edit: 23 Apr 2017, 02:50 pm by Spatial Computer »

debjit.g

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #13 on: 16 Apr 2017, 09:34 pm »
Did anybody get their M3/M4 upgraded to Triode Master or anyone got a new one ? If one is using solid state amps, does the TM benefits from it as well ?

zybar

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #14 on: 16 Apr 2017, 11:07 pm »
Did anybody get their M3/M4 upgraded to Triode Master or anyone got a new one ? If one is using solid state amps, does the TM benefits from it as well ?

Clayton told me that the TM is better than the Turbo S and that you will hear the benefits with both as and tubes.

George

debjit.g

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #15 on: 17 Apr 2017, 04:26 am »
Clayton told me that the TM is better than the Turbo S and that you will hear the benefits with both as and tubes.

George

Thanks George. I have the M3 TurboS and excited to see what the Triode master brings in to an already great sounding speaker. Did Clayton tell when the upgrades are available and how to get it ? I had sent him a mail yesterday but didn't hear back - guess he is busy with the upcoming axpona.

On a separate note, what are folks using to power the M3/M4 currently ? I am using Nords monoblock which is nc500 based and it sounds great. When I upgrade to a Triode Master, I am thinking to getting a tube amp and wondering what to get and how much power is required.   

Manolo

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #16 on: 17 Apr 2017, 07:11 pm »
Using First Watt F4 with a Supratek tube ls, superb!
Wonder how much $$$$ forvthe tweeter upgrade.

Flyin_V

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #17 on: 18 Apr 2017, 08:35 am »
In the 14 months I've had the M4 Turbo I've had 4 amps on them. A 2A3 set, a Berning ZOTL 10, a Cherry STM and finally a Berning ZOTL 40. The M4 exposed their weaknesses, with the exception of the '40. The speakers sound more linear, punchy and alive with the '40. It's very quiet/detailed, transparent, focused, extremely dimensional with a very open top end. If it fits within your budget, get one, you won't be sorry. Even Clayton has one.

When I talked to Clayton last week he said the M4 mods should be done in 4 weeks or so.  :thumb:
« Last Edit: 18 Apr 2017, 05:18 pm by Flyin_V »

NavyDoc

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Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #18 on: 23 Apr 2017, 01:43 pm »
Any reports from Axpona on the M3 Triode Master?  They look to be pretty impressive.

jtwrace

Re: Spatial M3 Triode Master
« Reply #19 on: 23 Apr 2017, 02:08 pm »
Any reports from Axpona on the M3 Triode Master?  They look to be pretty impressive.
They sounded great to me.  $4k.