[Ernest]

Hey everyone.  Not sure if you all remember me or not, but I used to occasionally post on here.  I don't read here much anymore.  Actually, I have a hard time even thinking of myself as an audiophile.  I reached the limit of what I can do in my house, my wife lost patience with it all, my family needs grew bigger, and I lost the space for my audio setup.  And the honest truth is that I'm not sure I care.  I had reached a point where nothing I listened to impressed me.  I couldn't enjoy anything I listened to because I could always hear some kind of deficiency.  Over a 2.5 year period I spent close to enough money for a nice luxury car on audio equipment, reached amazing levels of sound quality, and never reached a point where I could actually _enjoy_ it.

I now only have a mediocre home theater setup, a half-decent headphone setup (Benchmark DAC-1 and HD-600s), and some other miscellaneous equipment that is just stting around.  I can't afford much more anymore (without my wife shooting me).  I'm thinking I should just sell everything and get out.

I'm an idiot.  I should have not spent so much time focused on sound quality and spent more time on sound _enjoyment_.  But now I can't seem to undo that.

Sorry, I'm just dumping on you all here.  But what I really want to know is if any of you have been in this position, and if so, did you find your way out of it?

Thanks,

Ernest (who is trying to find hope)

[Marbles]

Ernest, glad to hear from you.

Let me ask you a question, do you enjoy music in your car?

If so, then you can be rehabilitated
If not, then there is no hope....  

[Lost81]

DIY works...

The skills you develop and the knowledge learned along the way are priceless. They are also independant from the equipment you built.

I guess the important thing is to know when to have balance and not enter the realm of obsession and end up chasing ghosts...

DIY has its own pitfalls too.
(Some time back I got my hands on the schematic and JPEG of the Grado RA-1 Headphone Amplifier and spent a lot of time trying to build a clone of it. For some reason, it never worked. Talk about a downer... )

In fact, I think DIY-most-things works to insulate oneself from the consumerist hysteria pervading modern society today. (Just take a look at the post-Thanksgiving sales. It's a zoo out there.) The satisfaction of having built something with your own hands is largely lost in society these days.

From an ex-housemate who noticed the many evenings I spent building my AKSAs: "I don't know why you are wasting so much time building them yourself. If I were you, I would just spring for the Bose Cubes and spend my time hanging out at the mall..."

Tried attending a 'live' concert lately?
It might remind you of why you chose this hobby...

Failing at that, watched "Ray" yet?


-Lost81

[Music Maven]

Gosh...I don't listen to music as much as I used to, but still enjoy it.

I don't pass your in-car litmus test, though, Marbles!

Our '91 Volvo has a CD player but it's screwed up so I can't listen to CDs.
And, sorry, I WON'T listen to the radio, I'm tired of having pharmaceutical empires cram their latest drugs down my throat with the pesky commercials!

Plus, I enjoy the type of cutting edge folk and some religious music that just isn't found often on the radio...

I guess I travel to the beat of a different drummer!      

Jerry

[JoshK]

I don't own a car but I enjoy music.   I too went the DIY route.  It allows me to enjoy the system I already have while channelling my nerousis into building a second system.   Agree definitely about the skills you learn being very valuable and independent!

[Jon L]

It's all right, Ernest.  Most of us have been there once or twice.  You already have a good setup for musical enjoyment with Benchmark+SennHD600.  

When I get into a funk with audio equipment (happens often), the best cure for me is to go out there and find some yummy music, the kind of music that gives you that "old thrill" even if heard over AM radio.  

Yesterday, I spent hours listening to music samples on Amazon.com, Tower.com, and at local Barnes and Nobles.  Also checking out recommendations from various internet forums and magazines.  I found 8 great CD's to buy, and I know I'll enjoy them even through my iPod.

[Christof]

Ernest, the hardest part is over, you have raised your hand in front of a group of people and said " my name is Ernest, I'm an audioholic"

This is a strange world to be caught up in.  While I'm relatively new to high-end audio, I can clearly see how the quest for better sound can quickly develope into an addiction.   For those who treat audio equipment like a drug and always strive for a bigger, better high this is a dead-end street.  

I'm in the DIY parade as well.  Infact, I will not buy a single piece of equipment without going DIY and if it is impossible for me to DIY a paticular component than I will work out a trade with someone for something I built.  It would be much easier to just flip out cash for a new amp but I can see my own tendency twards getting out of control so I build a pair of speakers and trade for one.  In a strange way this makes me appreciate my system in a much different way than if I used plastic for everything.  
Peace
Chris

[jackman]

Hi Earnest,
You aren't the only guy who has looked back at the amount of time and money spent on this hobby.  My friends think I'm insane for obsessing about which capacitors sound better in my tweeter circuit or which IC sounds best between my preamp and CDP.   Of course, these are the same people who think nothing about spending $8-9 per day on cigarettes, $200 per week in bars (or more!) and $5,000-10,000 gambling in Las Vegas...not to mention the other things they spend money on that I'm not going to mention...

Anyway, the money they spend is roughly $20K per year on things that are potentially distructive and have nothing to show for it!  My audio hobby has enabled me to meet some great people (on this site, madisound, etc.), learn a lot about music and electronics (I've modded some gear, replaced components in other gear, tackle some simple DIY projects (Foreplay preamp with all of the extras), and have a system that I could sell without losing too much.  Plus, I've had a good time in the process.  

I think the most important thing I've learned is that you should put your system together for YOURSELF.  Don't let any Jackass (including me!) tell you what you should have.  I like listening to and enjoying music more than having a great system that may impress my friends.  

Don't be bummed about the $$$ and time you spent.  If nothing else, it taught you a lesson on what is important to you.  Sometimes the best lessons are the ones that reinforce what you already know or at least suspect.  

Good luck!

J

[warnerwh]

You obviously enjoy music quite alot or would have not come this far.  Forget about it. It will come back. I have to remind myself to forget about the sound myself and have come to the realization I really don't need anything although I keep looking mostly out of habit.  Just let it go and you'll enjoy the music again.

[DVV]

Hey everyone.  Not sure if you all remember me or not, but I used to occasionally post on here.  I don't read here much anymore.  Actually, I have a hard time even thinking of myself as an audiophile.  I reached the limit of what I can do in my house, my wife lost patience with it all, my family needs grew bigger, and I lost the space for my audio setup.  And the honest truth is that I'm not sure I care.  I had reached a point where nothing I listened to impressed me.  I couldn't enjoy anything I listened t ...

Ernest, as I see it, there are only two ways to get over it.

One is to keep asking yourself the simplest of all questions - what's my audio gear for? To impress friends, to find personal satisfaction in owning great kit, or just avehicle to get me to the music. If you should end up with the vehicle concept, then you need to ask yourself - how much have I been spending on gear (hardware), and how much on actual music carriers (software)? You see, (far too) many times people forget along the way what is it all supposed to do, the upgrade bug bites and you start upgrading no end, upgrading becomes a purpose unto itself.

To illustrate, I picked up a CD of Carl Perkins' best (Pacific Entertainment, FG273). I've been wanting something like that for a very long time, and by sheer accident, I spotted that one CD among a vast number on offer. I now feel better than if I had upgraded my amp, or whatnot.

The other way is to get into serious DIY audio. This turns you into a more or less active participant in what you won, rather than being a dummy consumer to be paddled snake oil to. It stretches your purcase to audition period, it actually relaxes you, and in my view, it brings a new thrill into the whole story; you now anticipate new capacitors rather than ready made products. You start taking your sweet time in soldering them on, you savour the time. You end up a whole lot happier than with just running to a shop and picking up the latest gizmo on display.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

Cheers,
DVV

[cjr888]

I reached the limit of what I can do in my house, my wife lost patience with it all, my family needs grew bigger, and I lost the space for my audio setup. And the honest truth is that I'm not sure I care. I had reached a point where nothing I listened to impressed me. I couldn't enjoy anything I listened to because I could always hear some kind of deficiency.....I can't afford much more anymore (without my wife shooting me). I'm thinking I should just sell everything and get out.....I'm an idiot. I should have not spent so much time focused on sound quality and spent more time on sound _enjoyment_. But now I can't seem to undo that......But what I really want to know is if any of you have been in this position, and if so, did you find your way out of it?

Sounds like you went down the linear path, and then were forced to take two steps back, and weren't quite happy with things at either point.

It sounds like you do enjoy music, but there's an aspect to the enjoyment that you associate with the system at hand with periodically hearing improvement, and when there is pause, and you can't do this any longer, the main system isn't as interesting...but another system that might night have changed for a couple years you still enjoy, because you haven't expected more out of it.

Sort of the wow of the system instead of the wow of the music.

With the kids, and the obvious need for space, I understand losing the dedicated space, but honestly, I think this is the opportunity to listen to more music, but in a different manner.  I am assuming that the system in your tagline no longer exists?

How often do you realistically listen to the headphone setup?  If frequently, keep it.  I am assuming this was the last step after losing the audio room -- having the ability at any hour, in almost any space, to list to "good audio" in the little private time that's left behind, if any, with kids around.

What am I getting at?  A few things:

1.  Daily Life.  Make music a part of your daily, background life.  Don't necessarily associate it with private time in a private space and chase after extremes.  Buy yourself a tuner or XM Radio or take feeds off of the web.  

Dedicate space means dedicated listening.  Have music of some sort, any sort in the room or rooms that you family spends the most time in, not the least.  Make it a focal point.

2.  Convenience.  Make things convenient and accessible.  Put cheap little units in more places than less.  Have no care for what it is, as long as it plays music.  Find a little unit that fits under a cabinet for the kitchen for example.

3.  Shackles.  Knowing your past habits, put some shackles around yourself.  If you're going to put together a system of any sort, go with something that's a one box receiver.  Don't give yourself the opportunity to think about interconnects or preamps or things of that nature.

4.  General Sound.  Even if you didn't have to get rid of the audio room, it sounds like you were chasing after changes and improvements vs. something pleasing.  The two don't always go hand in hand.  If you find yourself willing or wanting to buy something -- find something that will fit into your living situation, but that may have a bit more glorifying sound to it.  Thinking an old vintage receiver, or a Fischer integrated amp or something.  Something on the warm side of things.  

5.  Kids.  Get the kids listening and dancing around!  You'll be happy you have a system of any sort.

Feel free to drop me a PM -- I've been in this situation before.  

[Jay S]

Ernest,

I hit a down point soon after my system reached its pinnacle.  All it took was one simple change -- I got rid of my transport and subbed in a cheap DVD player to tide me over until I could get the right modded universal player.  Well, I went from having a very musical system to one that sounded like total crap because one weak link was polluting the overall sound.  I lost interest.  Where once I could sit transfixed in the sweet spot, my system became relegated purely to background music and I did all my listening while sitting at my desk in another room.  

I felt rather silly about it - a five-figure investment in sound equipment but mediocre sound... I felt temped to down size and sell off my tube pre and digital amp in favor a JVC digital receiver... or maybe get a modded Panny digital receiver and sell off my dac as well.  It would have taken a lot of money off the table (though I feared the savings would be spent somewhere else anyway).  

After a few months (during which I spent a lot less time on AC) I started to peek around a bit again at AC and started to read the digital forum at audiogon.  Well, I think that my interest has been revised.  My system still sounds rather uninspiring but I want to get it back to where it was.  I've put in a bid to buy a universal player and am focused on researching  a few different mod packages.  

There is a saying that "cynicism is the last bastion of the eternal optimist."  I don't think you'd feel depressed about audio if you didn't truly care about music deep down inside.  

If this has all felt like a roller coaster for you, then maybe there's an upswing coming your way.

[Ernest]

Wow guys, you've given me a lot to think about!  It's true, I do love music.  I especially love live music.  My wife and I saw Monty Alexander and Clark Terry a week ago and it was AWESOME.

I have XM in my car and do enjoy that a lot.  XM is just so freaking awesome!

I think I turned into an equipment addict.  I had more fun playing with the equipment than actually listening to the music.  But I've always had an ear for sound quality and was never happy with any equipment I had until I got into the audiophile world.  There was a point actually where I had a pair of Quicksilver Audio M60 monoblock tube amps (bought from the man himself, Dan G of Harmonic Discord), a pair of VMPS RM1s, a DVD player source, and a Wayne-modded ART DIO, and I just loved listening to music on it.  Then I got that PS Audio digital amp cause I was curious about digital amps, and then the Acoustic Reality eAR 2, and I was on my way... to audiophile addiction... the thrill of ever new heights of sound quality.  Since that point I have never listened to a CD all the way through.  Actually, I rarely listened to a single _SONG_ all the way through.  I fast forward and only listen to the parts that sound the best.  My goodness I'm ill...  

I'm not sure what to do at this point but you guys gave me some great ideas.  I have a lot of thinking to do.

Oh, I do still have the equipment in my tag line.  Just no where to set it up properly.

Thanks guys!

Ernest

[Jay S]

Ernest,

Don't feel bad, its easy to turn into an equipment junkie.  Its a lot of fun.  During my "sabbatical" from audio I was focused on photography, which was fueled by an eye-opening safari in Botswana.  I started off with a digital SLR, its basic kit lens, a flash and a borrowed telephoto zoom lens... and quickly bought 4 more lenses, including a 100-400 Canon "L" series monster (all the better to shoot wild animals with...).  I spent hours on www.fredmiranda.com and also took several thousand photos.  I found, though, that I had more fun researching and buying stuff and taking pictures than actually looking at them (which never quite were good enough and I simply took too many to look through and edit).  Anyway, now that I've got all the photo gear I need I'm taking a bit of a break, and coming back to audio, and will get back into photography closer to my next trip to Africa next year.  

Anyway, enjoy the music in your car for now... when the time comes, set up your gear again, perhaps in one little corner just so you can get a taste for sound at home again.

[Ulas]

There was a point actually where I had a pair of Quicksilver Audio M60 monoblock tube amps (bought from the man himself, Dan G of Harmonic Discord), a pair of VMPS RM1s, a DVD player source, and a Wayne-modded ART DIO, and I just loved listening to music on it.

Then I got that PS Audio digital amp cause I was curious about digital amps, and then the Acoustic Reality eAR 2, and I was on my way... to audiophile addiction... the thrill of ever new heights of sound quality. Since that point I have never listened to a CD all the way through.

The source of your affliction and the cure are both revealed in the quotations above. You were seduced by the dark side (overly analytical digital and SS) and strayed from the true path to musical bliss (vacuum tubes). What you need to do to get back on the right path should be obvious: get rid of all that super-analytical digital crap and get back to tubes and music.

[Tabascosauce]

Try accepting that the only "perfect" audiophile experience is a live concert.    Anything recorded becomes a compromise.  Give up striving for perfection, and instead, accept striving for excellence.  View this as subjective, not objective.

Try a good vinyl set up.  In my view, you'll get a more "engaging" experience, and a lot more bang for your bucks.

[Jay S]

Frankly, I'm not necessarily impressed by live concerts.  Sure, they are loud and fun, but they are using speakers and amps which add their own coloration.  To me, you have to listen to acoustic music and vocals with no amplification at all to be sure you are hearing pure sound.

[Ernest]

I decided to try to move as much of my high-end stuff into my home theater as I could.  I have a Jungson AV-899 Class A 80 watt per channel home theater receiver that is supposed to be good.  I have those hooked up to my Acoustic Reality speakers as mains, and some cheap speakers everywhere else.  I have a Momitsu DVD player as the source feeding its digital output to the Jungson.  This generally sounded pretty bad for music.  Movies were OK but I'm not very particular about that.  So this is what I started with.  I figured if I couldn't get good sound out of my home theater then I would have to just make due with a headphone setup (and my car).

The first thing I did made a big change in the sound.  I replaced some crappy digital cable with something my buddy Pat made.  Wow!  The music went from bad to good, but still not good enough.  I put my balanced power supply in, and WOW, another big improvement.  Then I switched to my Bolder M-80 speaker cables, and now I had very good sound.  Not great though.  Put in the transport that I got from Pat, a modded Magnavox CDB582 (old school man), and now I had very good sound, much better than I ever thought possible in this room with a big fat TV between the speakers, no room treatments, and the speakers placed right next to the TV.

For the first time in MONTHS, I was enjoying music!

Next I need to add in the best component I currently own, Pat's Segue DAC.  Oh my freaking goodness!  Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to try that out...

Once I get this set up, other than trying out some stuff Pat may send my way, I am not going to get back into the audiophile obssession that I was in.  I'm going to enjoy music!

Thank you all for helping me get out of my depression and on my way back to musical enjoyment!!

Ernest

[Jay S]

Ernest,

Glad to read that you are excited again about trying out new things!  Good idea to integrate your music and HT systems -- better WAF that way.  I have a single combined system and when I get particular about sound quality I throw a thick blanket over the TV.  

My system is hobbled right now by a poor quality transport but like you I have enjoyed playing around with some of the other components, most recently trying out an Amperex tube in my TubeDac, which has really helped my system gain back a few much needed notches of quality.

Enjoy the music!

- Jay

[tex-amp]

The first audio gathering I went to someone 25-30 years old than me told me, "Some people love music.  Others love speakers."  

I feel very fortunate to have someone warning me in the beginning to keep it about the music and not the equipment.