LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller

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WC

Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #20 on: 3 Feb 2017, 06:19 pm »
Interesting adding the input terminals to the main board. Will there be some savings over having two accessory boards.

Are those solder pads for each of the inputs and outputs? Only 6 ground solder pads? Looks like there will also be screw connectors for each input and output also.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #21 on: 3 Feb 2017, 06:57 pm »
Interesting adding the input terminals to the main board. Will there be some savings over having two accessory boards.

Are those solder pads for each of the inputs and outputs? Only 6 ground solder pads? Looks like there will also be screw connectors for each input and output also.


Cost savings was not the primary consideration although fewer parts and interface points tend to be more economical. The primary goal is sonic performance. Minimizing signal path length, complexity and interface points are all positives.

No screw connectors. Solder pads only. 6 possible stereo inputs. Signal grounds are kept separate for each channel with 3 solder pads per ground channel. Two output solder pads per channel. Inputs and output all switched via LDR modules. No relays in signal path. Board does have 2 small SPST relays associated with the LDR calibration circuit but these are not in the normal signal path.

WC

Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #22 on: 3 Feb 2017, 07:48 pm »
Looks cool. Has what I am looking for.

rajacat

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #23 on: 3 Feb 2017, 10:24 pm »
Yes but with a couple of qualifiers.

1) The default DIY V2.1 board has 3 NPN mosfet switches installed which would switch the original IO3 board  relays to ground. The new IO3LDR board now has the NPN mosfet switches instead. So you would have to snip the heads off the 3 mosfets on the V2.1 board and solder 2 of the remaining pins together on each of the 3 locations. As a result the IO3LDR boards just receives the TTL on/off (+V / 0V)  signal from controller board's microcontroller. Probably sounds more complicated than it really is. I will put together a simple diagram/photo and add to online documentation showing this.

2) The 3 terminal connectors J1L and J1R line up with each as before but on J1R the position of the input/output signals are reversed. A simple flip around of wiring takes care of that. The downside is you can't connect the IO3LDR to the V2.1 using straight across header pins. You need to use flexible wiring.

Hi Morten,
I'm interested in the new IO3 LDR board if it's compatible with the LDR3x Rev 2.F controller board.

Thanks,

Roy

craig sawyers

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #24 on: 4 Feb 2017, 11:33 am »
This means no separate LDR IO board for the V25 although we already have those done already and may offer those to folks who are looking for an LDR based input switching board.

Phew - that is a relief! I'm still absolutely in for two LDR I/O boards to upgrade my DIY balanced.

Craig

WC

Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #25 on: 6 Feb 2017, 02:54 pm »
Morten,

Looks like with the new board we go from 4 LDRs to a maximum of 15 LDRs, if using all six inputs and the mono option. In its use as an input switcher what is the lifespan of the LDR. Replacing all the modules could get rather pricey. For the DIY board, have you determined how you are going to price the unit based on the number of inlets? As a base board or as a base board with 3 inputs or as a base board with 6 inputs? Based on the selling price of the replacement modules, each input would add approximately $38 to the cost.


tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #26 on: 6 Feb 2017, 03:59 pm »
Morten,

Looks like with the new board we go from 4 LDRs to a maximum of 15 LDRs, if using all six inputs and the mono option. In its use as an input switcher what is the lifespan of the LDR. Replacing all the modules could get rather pricey. For the DIY board, have you determined how you are going to price the unit based on the number of inlets? As a base board or as a base board with 3 inputs or as a base board with 6 inputs? Based on the selling price of the replacement modules, each input would add approximately $38 to the cost.

All good questions.

As it stands now the base board will be capable of 6 inputs plus mono but will have the option of being purchased as 1 input, 3 input or 6 input with significantly discounted pricing on the incremental LDR modules when purchased initially as part of the board. If someone wants to add more inputs later, then it's regular a la carte module pricing.  Final pricing will be set when we announce the release date.

Regarding the LDR lifespan question think of them as LED's which are considered to have 50,000 hour useful life when operated at their rated current capacity. We don't run the LDRs at their rated current capacity. While we do see LDRs go bad now and then it's still fairly rare and by "going bad" this usually means they drift out of calibration range for use as a variable resistor in our attenuator but they would still likely be perfectly acceptable to be used as on/off LDR switches. 

I've yet to have a single LDR fail when used as a simple on/off switch and we've been using LDRs as switches in practically every preamp we've sold going back to day 1.  :thumb:

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #27 on: 9 Feb 2017, 06:37 pm »
The LDR.V25 preamp controller is now available for pre-order with an anticipated release date of April 1st.

Details on the V25 including pricing/options etc. can be found here: http://www.tortugaaudio.com/products/diy-preamp-components/ldr-v25-preamp-controller/

During the pre-release period we are offering the V25 at $50 off the list price.

If you wish to pre-order a V25 keep in mind that you will NOT be charged until the V25 is released.  :thumb:

WC

Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #28 on: 9 Feb 2017, 07:00 pm »
Can we also use the Newsletter discount?

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #29 on: 9 Feb 2017, 07:15 pm »
Can we also use the Newsletter discount?

Fair question. Given that the V25 base price is already marked down 17% during the pre-release/pre-order period the 10% newsletter discount is not applicable. It will be applicable once the board is released and the pre-release sales price expires.

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #30 on: 5 Mar 2017, 09:40 pm »
Here's a fairly detailed pic of the V25 board with everything installed except the actual LDRs. This may be the final hardware version. Will know in a few days after we check it this latest build.

The V25 will likely end up using 12 DAC channels and 4 ADC channels compared to only 4 DAC channels in the V21 board. The additional DAC channels allow for more granular control of each of the 4 LDRs and a more accurate LDR calibration process.


TheMonkey

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #31 on: 18 Mar 2017, 02:37 pm »
Hi Morten!

Will the V25 also be available as a Balanced Passive Preamp Kit for pre-order? If not, are the necessary cables (like master to slave ribbon cable) for balanced configuration going to be available among the DIY components?

/ Simon

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #32 on: 18 Mar 2017, 02:58 pm »
Hi Morten!

Will the V25 also be available as a Balanced Passive Preamp Kit for pre-order? If not, are the necessary cables (like master to slave ribbon cable) for balanced configuration going to be available among the DIY components?

/ Simon

Hi Simon,

When anyone orders 2 V25 boards at the same time the assumption is these will be used for balanced and/or dual mono in which case we'll supply the additional shunt(jumper) on one board to designate it as the slave board and also the 12" 2-wire serial link (not a ribbon cable).

If someone already has a V25 and wants to buy a 2nd one for a balanced/dual-mono setup, just drop us a note and we'll add the shunt/serial link with that board. Those additional items literally cost us less than a $1.00 so I'm not inclined to add them as separate product line items with markup etc.

Also, just to be clear, any board can be designated as the master (no jumper) or slave (jumper installed). They're both identical in terms of hardware and firmware. The jumper determines their behavior.

Best,
Morten

TheMonkey

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #33 on: 18 Mar 2017, 03:18 pm »
Thank you!

I'm thinking about ordering two boards and one component kit but I'm also considering a Balanced Passive Preamp Kit with enclosure and everything to save some time and effort. Is the kit going to be available when the V25 is out?

/ Simon

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #34 on: 18 Mar 2017, 05:37 pm »
Thank you!

I'm thinking about ordering two boards and one component kit but I'm also considering a Balanced Passive Preamp Kit with enclosure and everything to save some time and effort. Is the kit going to be available when the V25 is out?

/ Simon

A timely question. A somewhat involved answer.

The existing LDR1B.V2 kit uses a pair of existing V2 boards. One of the PITA aspects of the existing V2 boards is that firmware updates have to be made separately to each board. The plan with the V25 boards is you will only have to update the master board and it will take care of updating any attached slave boards. This way you will only need  a single USB connection in the enclosure connected to just the master board.

However, the initial firmware for the V25 will NOT have this ability - yet. Some more work/testing needs to be done before this feature is ready for prime time. What this means is you can buy and use V25 boards from the very beginning and use them in balanced/dual-mono scenarios but any firmware update will still have to be done to each board separately. A subsequent V25 firmware update will add the master>slave firmware update ability. Don't ask how soon this will be available. As fast as we can get it done is the only answer I have right now. To be clear, the hardware is fully capable of this, it's just a matter of working out the kinks in the firmware. Consequently, we will NOT be offering the updated LDR1B.V25 kits initially because all the new rear panels for the balanced V25 enclosure, including the kits, only have a single USB port so we won't release those models/enclosure/panel until the master>slave firmware updating is up and running. Hopefully that all makes sense.

TheMonkey

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #35 on: 19 Mar 2017, 06:47 pm »
Thanks for a very good and informative reply!

That all makes very much sense to me! It's just that I'm really bad at waiting and I have already pushed my limits to the max waiting for the V25 :) so I put two pre-orders (one V25 and one V25 with the component kit) and one order with an extra USB-cable and a PSU. I'm going to start with double USB-cables and then we see...

I'm really looking forward now :D

MadKid

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #36 on: 26 Mar 2017, 02:03 pm »
Hi Morten,

Will V25 support LCD or OLED as a more fancy display option? Or will it be a major difference between V25 and V3?


Cheers,

Ken

tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #37 on: 26 Mar 2017, 02:40 pm »
Hi Morten,

Will V25 support LCD or OLED as a more fancy display option? Or will it be a major difference between V25 and V3?


Cheers,

Ken

Timely question since I'm sorting out the details on this right now.

First, the V25 will remain compatible with our existing 7-segment type display modules.  This means it will work with our existing displays from day 1 and you can drop a V25 board into any preamp that currently uses our V20/V21 boards, plug in the existing displays and go.

However, the plan is to have the V25 also work with an OLED display that uses 2 rows of 16 alphanumeric characters. This new OLED display, while different than the graphical type OLED originally planned for the V30, will plug right into the same 2x5 pin header port used by our existing display modules. That serial port doesn't have the bandwidth to support the graphical OLED display but it's fine for a character OLED display.

By setting a jumper on the V25 you'll be able to use either display type. You won't need different firmware versions, just change a jumper setting.

The only wrinkle in this is that the V25's firmware will not be ready for the OLED character display from day 1.  When ready, a firmware update will enable the V25 to work with the new OLED display. I'm not going to make any promises on timing but best guess is somewhere in the 1-3 months time frame after original release of V25. It's a big priority to get this done.

Without a doubt, the new OLED character display will make using the V25 a lot simpler, more intuitive, and will make it possible to add or enhance features that are not practical with the existing dual 2-digit display/remote.


tortugaranger

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #38 on: 27 Mar 2017, 02:24 pm »
I mentioned this in my last post but wanted to expand on it and let you all know what's happening with the V25.

The V25 will be released this week on April 1st as scheduled but will not begin shipping for another 2 weeks. I will extend the pre-order discount out through this period.

The reason for the delay is this past week I made a design change to the V25 that requires new printed circuit boards be made. That's going to take 7-10 days to turn around with our fabricator and then a few more days to build some boards and start shipping. Hence the April 15 ship date.

That's the bad news, now here's the good news.

The new V25 will now have an upgrade path to a much more user friendly and sophisticated OLED (organic light emitting diode) display panel. The OLED panel has 2 lines of 16 alphanumeric characters which will make control and menu navigation simpler and more intuitive, enable improvements to current features, and make it possible to add new features in the future that would otherwise not be practical. In order to make this possible I had to make some minor changes to the circuit board; hence the delay in shipping.

(This display window itself is 3.75"  wide by 1" tall.
A slightly smaller model is also available that has a 2.5" x 0.8" tall window.
We use an adapter board to be plug compatible with the V25 )



When the V25 does ship it will work with our existing dual 2-digit 7-segment type display modules. That will not change. However, some additional software work needs to be completed for the OLED display upgrade. This will take a few more weeks and when ready we will roll out a simple firmware update that will then allow your V25 to work with the optional OLED display as well as continue to work with the existing dual display modules. Changing displays will be plug-n-play except you'll need to change a jumper on the V25 board. Either display type plugs into the same 10 pin header.

Nobody likes delays but I thought this one was worth making now since it required only minor changes to the hardware that I'd rather make now and not change the hardware a few weeks later leaving customers with incompatible boards.

Oh, and the V25 board sounds fantastic!!  I do believe it beats the existing V21 board sonically. The central reason for this is the way quieter power supply design on the V25 board which has 2 stage voltage regulation for the control signals to the LDRs.

Cheers,
Morten

MadKid

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Re: LDR.V25 (the "V25") Preamp Controller
« Reply #39 on: 28 Mar 2017, 12:15 pm »
That seems very promising and definitely the feature every builders are wanting for!

Guess I will place order for 2 boards for my balanced active preamp and upgrade later with the OLED display.