dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest

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Davey

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #20 on: 6 Aug 2016, 02:25 pm »
I want to voice support for this. Im planning to build an LXmini first for a smaller room and then if that goes well, a LX521 for a larger room. I imagine if you get this working for the LX521, then it should work for the mini?

Thanks for working on this.

John,

The LXmini is designed as an extreme value system.

You can purchase a complete LXmini kit (sans miniDSP unit) from Madisound for $440.00.  The MS-3/dspMusik setup will set you back $2800.
You can purchase a complete LX521 kit (sans miniDSP unit) from Madisound for $1740.00.  The MS-3/dspMusik setup will set you back $2800.

I'm having trouble justifying the cost in an LX521 system, let alone an LXmini system.  :)

Dave.

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #21 on: 6 Aug 2016, 02:36 pm »
How is volume controlled if the companion MS-3 PC is not connected?  The dspMusik (standalone) has no volume control capability??

Dave.

The dspMusik RevD will have a front panel volume control and display for all 8 DAC channels.  It is not remote controlled, but it will also do mute and input selection once that version is finished. 

You need the MS-3 for remote control of parameters and volume.  There is no plan to add IR or Bluetooth to the uC running in the dspMusik. 




Davey

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #22 on: 6 Aug 2016, 03:12 pm »
I've been chatting with Al Clark a bit.  Apparently they are cogitating on dspMusik remote control possibilities via Bluetooth smartphone and/or similar schemes.

A remote control feature is mandatory IMO.  Having to put my beer down and walk across the listening room all the time to fine-adjust the volume is unacceptable.
If the dspMusik unit can't implement this standalone, it forces the user to implement it elsewhere.  As you know, from a gain structure standpoint, the placing and scheme of this system volume control is important.  Inside the dspMusik unit is most likely the optimum location.

A wireless keyboard scheme wouldn't bother me since I don't have a problem with having an operating PC tethered to my system all the time.....but some folks would.

This seems an oversight on the basic dspMusik design....in my opinion.

Dave.

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #23 on: 6 Aug 2016, 05:26 pm »
Dave,
Have been working with Al for about 6 years to get it this far.  Other user inputs I get are fed to him as well.   

I asked for the hardware DAC volume control capability awhile back.  Phase one comes in RevD.  The uC they are using is good for a lot of things, so now a possibility, like Bluetooth or IR as future upgrades.   Now, it is convincing Al what capabilities to add.

Originally, this was an internal only product for speaker systems not DIY.  Program it once and done forever, no controls and no USB for audio file replay.  I asked for the external chassis version with those capabilities and got it 2 years ago that started with RevC.   

I think of this product as a DEQX HDP-5 with more channel capability and less than 1/3 the price.  Really like the more flexible PC interface, and that is why I build these for folks for their specific speaker.   I support the ones I sell and preconfigure the MS-3 and dspMusik system to make sure the user is up and running with their system quickly.  That is the part that just buying a dspMusik directly does not provide. 

For folks that know DSP, it is pretty easy.  For folks that do not, it can be very difficult.  Then add on top knowing how to do the electrical and acoustic speaker measurements for designs that require a custom version.   

Will be interesting to hear what happens with the RevD system when it is finished.


*Scotty*

Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #24 on: 6 Aug 2016, 05:38 pm »
Hi Rich, are there any changes planned for A/D converter used in the dspMusik, or will you be sticking with the current processor?

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #25 on: 6 Aug 2016, 05:43 pm »
The A/D's and D/A's in the RevD system are new, the DSP processor is the same.  Both are minimum phase filtered devices selected for the design.


*Scotty*

Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #26 on: 6 Aug 2016, 05:48 pm »
Sounds like the hot ticket for vinyl replay with full room correction and xover capability.
Scotty

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #27 on: 6 Aug 2016, 05:56 pm »
The new capability will be having the A/D output via the USB interface.  This way the unit can do measurements with recording programs like Audacity or Room EQ Wizard.

I plan to use it with my recording rig, besides audio replay.  Possible to now archive vinyl to digital as well at 24bit/192KHz with the recording software.


johngore

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #28 on: 7 Aug 2016, 04:59 pm »
John,

The LXmini is designed as an extreme value system.

You can purchase a complete LXmini kit (sans miniDSP unit) from Madisound for $440.00.  The MS-3/dspMusik setup will set you back $2800.
You can purchase a complete LX521 kit (sans miniDSP unit) from Madisound for $1740.00.  The MS-3/dspMusik setup will set you back $2800.

I'm having trouble justifying the cost in an LX521 system, let alone an LXmini system.  :)

Dave.

Thanks. I guess I was looking just at the dspMusik alone.

On the topic of volume adjustment, I thought you would want volume adjustment after the DAC, so that the digital processing and conversion to analog is using a full dynamic range and all the bits, instead of in the source.


HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #29 on: 7 Aug 2016, 06:00 pm »
The DAC's have built in 32bit digital attenuators.  They are controlled by the DSP software for all 8 channels.

Analog volume controls would not track well enough to work with 8 channels of DAC's to keep the crossover outputs at the same level for the drivers in a multi-way system.

I sell the dspMusik as a system with the MS-3 Music Server.  Comes preloaded with all the software to run the dspMusik and playback HiRez music.   


Davey

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #30 on: 7 Aug 2016, 08:43 pm »
There are quite a few (DIY and commercial) digitally-controlled analog volume controls that will easily achieve the necessary tracking.  But, it's much easier to implement within the DSP/DAC structure so most units employ that scheme.

The newer Revision-D dspMusik mentioned by Al Clark seems to address some missing features, but it's still quite high in price compared to many alternatives.

Dave.

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #31 on: 7 Aug 2016, 08:56 pm »
Dave,
Then sounds like I will just not worry about doing dspMusik crossovers for the LX521 or LX-Mini, since they are low cost speaker kits.  The prices is what it is for me to sell them and support them.

Good luck with the other digital products out there. 

Off to another digital crossover project.


Davey

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #32 on: 7 Aug 2016, 10:36 pm »
Well, I'm not abandoning the effort.  I'm always looking for alternatives that represent excellent value in these applications.

After a couple of minor bugs, I now have the Audio Weaver installation working fine and have added the required blocks to the basic configuration you supplied.  That yielded something that (now) looks pretty close to the proper transfer functions for the LX521.

I will work directly with Al Clark should I decide to acquire a dspMusik box and put the setup into actual operation.

Cheers/Thanks,

Dave.

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #33 on: 7 Aug 2016, 10:50 pm »
Dave,
No problem.  I already told Al you should deal directly with him from now on.


lowtech

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #34 on: 8 Aug 2016, 06:00 am »
Thanks for investigating this, Davey. 

I had a feeling HAL would not be able to put together a suitable offering without having access to the actual transfer curves for the speakers since it's considered protected IP.

Looking forward to reading about Davey's experimentation with the unit, should he decide to acquire one.

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #35 on: 8 Aug 2016, 10:44 am »
Dave has my block diagram I started for Audio Weaver for the LX521 crossover design. 

Here is where I stopped, as there is no way to complete it to answer the challenge without the data LL does not post.

Good luck with the design.



lowtech

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #36 on: 8 Aug 2016, 02:23 pm »
Dave has my block diagram I started for Audio Weaver for the LX521 crossover design. 

Here is where I stopped, as there is no way to complete it to answer the challenge without the data LL does not post.

Good luck with the design.

I'm sure if Davey feels this crossover platform exceeds the performance of what's already available (despite it costing more than it's worth based on your MSRP) he'll offer the programming to SL and it'll be added to the list of LX521.4 "supported DSP's".  Having users deal directly with Danville Signal seems to be the way to go considering the LX521.4 is a not-for-profit design.

P.s. Same image as you posted earlier but "Removed the image as for some reason Google is finding proprietary info.".    :?

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #37 on: 8 Aug 2016, 02:36 pm »
No lowtech,
That is an actual set of measurements from the dspMusik using CLIO with my interpretation of the open data, not SL's post that is on the web for anyone to see.  So my post stands as my work on the challenge.  No need to go further.

Your interpretation of the cost is very interesting.  You have not invested any time and effort to learn or get the product improvements to market, program it and support it for a customers and think my markup is to high and then have no issue with products like DEQX and their price. 

Good luck whatever Davey does.










lowtech

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #38 on: 8 Aug 2016, 03:09 pm »
No need to go further.

Agreed. Your final target is greater than 50% off.

Your interpretation of the cost is very interesting.  You have not invested any time and effort to learn or get the product improvements to market, program it and support it for a customers and think my markup is to high and then have no issue with products like DEQX and their price.

Having had some past experience with DEQX products, I think you are mistaken about your assertion.  Additionally, the dspMusik product and the DEQX do have some functionality overlap, but are fundamentally different.  The DEQX is designed to eliminate the middleman (plug-and-play/no user or 3rd party programming required).

Good luck whatever Davey does.

We can agree on that.   :)

HAL

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Re: dspMusik crossover for Linkwitz LX521 interest
« Reply #39 on: 8 Aug 2016, 04:46 pm »
The fact I got to 50% of the digital crossover design with open data is a good sign to me.  The system will do well with implementing this design.