DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core

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WC

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #60 on: 15 Sep 2017, 06:32 pm »
DSP's work in the digital space. So if you are using the DSP, then it is Analog->Digital->analog.

That being said, it is only a problem if there is sound degradation with this step. Try feeding the Anti-mode a digital signal to determine if the extra conversion makes any difference to the sound.

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #61 on: 15 Sep 2017, 06:36 pm »
DSP's work in the digital space. So if you are using the DSP, then it is Analog->Digital->analog.

That being said, it is only a problem if there is sound degradation with this step. Try feeding the Anti-mode a digital signal to determine if the extra conversion makes any difference to the sound.

Thanks for chiming in. It sounds like my suspicions were right - there is a double conversion happening with my setup.

If I do what you suggested (feeding the Anti-Mode), wouldn't the DAC "duties" be done in full by the Anti-Mode, thus completely eliminating the need for my pre-amp with built in DAC?

Kal Rubinson

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #62 on: 15 Sep 2017, 06:49 pm »
Digital source to digital input on DualCore and digital output of the DualCore to a digital input on your preamp  =  no additional conversions.

WC

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #63 on: 15 Sep 2017, 06:53 pm »
Thanks for chiming in. It sounds like my suspicions were right - there is a double conversion happening with my setup.

If I do what you suggested (feeding the Anti-Mode), wouldn't the DAC "duties" be done in full by the Anti-Mode, thus completely eliminating the need for my pre-amp with built in DAC?

It might, but it also might not. Try it and see. From reading these and other forums, many of the ADC/DAC are fairly clean sounding and maybe a bit sterile sound wise. So sending in a direct digital signal may not sound like you want it to vs sending in a good sounding Analog signal and doing the ADC/DAC conversion on a good signal. Garbage in/Garbage Out.

Kal Rubinson

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #64 on: 15 Sep 2017, 08:42 pm »
Quote
It might, but it also might not. Try it and see. From reading these and other forums, many of the ADC/DAC are fairly clean sounding and maybe a bit sterile sound wise. So sending in a direct digital signal may not sound like you want it to vs sending in a good sounding Analog signal and doing the ADC/DAC conversion on a good signal.
I cannot accept that last point.  Where did that "analog" signal come from?  If from a turntable, then an A/D for the DualCore is necessary (as you know) but otherwise (meaning a digital source of any sort), there is no reason to insert an unnecessary A/D before the DualCore; just use a digital input.

On the other end, you can use the D/A from the DualCore to feed analog preamp/amp or, if you have a really nice DAC (stand-alone or built-in), you can feed the digital output from the DualCore to it.  I would go with the latter, if possible.  There's no need to use the A/D/A in the DualCore.

Minimize the conversions and do them in the best components you have.

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #65 on: 18 Sep 2017, 02:08 pm »

.... or, if you have a really nice DAC (stand-alone or built-in), you can feed the digital output from the DualCore to it. 


All great points - I am in the same page with you.

On the quoted phrase above though, if the nice DAC is also the streamer (in my case, and I have a Lumin T1 coming), I don't see how I can have that implementing. Thoughts?

Here is the Lumin T1 page:

http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-t1.html

Using it with Roon.

WC

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #66 on: 18 Sep 2017, 02:44 pm »
All great points - I am in the same page with you.

On the quoted phrase above though, if the nice DAC is also the streamer (in my case, and I have a Lumin T1 coming), I don't see how I can have that implementing. Thoughts?

Here is the Lumin T1 page:

http://www.luminmusic.com/lumin-t1.html

Using it with Roon.

The Lumin T1 is a streamer and DAC. I would guess that it has a better DAC implementation than the Antimode, but I don't know. If your source and DAC are separate you could run digital through the Antimode and use a DAC on the Toslink out from the antimode. You could do this in your case, but the Lumin doesn't have a toslink out, only a BNC coax out. You would need a converter to go to toslink and you would need another DAC or just use the Antimode DAC.

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #67 on: 18 Sep 2017, 02:51 pm »
The Lumin T1 is a streamer and DAC. I would guess that it has a better DAC implementation than the Antimode, but I don't know. If your source and DAC are separate you could run digital through the Antimode and use a DAC on the Toslink out from the antimode. You could do this in your case, but the Lumin doesn't have a toslink out, only a BNC coax out. You would need a converter to go to toslink and you would need another DAC or just use the Antimode DAC.

Yeah! I don't see how I can do this in my case with Lumin T1 and Anti-Mode.

So my choices are:

1 - Use it with Anti-Mode (XLR out on T1 to XLR in on AM), thus doing the double conversion on both

2 - Ditch the Anti-Mode completely.

I guess I will have to wait until the T1 arrives and try both options.

Thanks!

WC

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #68 on: 18 Sep 2017, 03:33 pm »
Since you are using Roon, you could use the DSP in Roon (not sure if it is on par with the AM DSP or not) prior to sending it to the Luxman. You may want to try that.

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #69 on: 18 Sep 2017, 03:38 pm »
Since you are using Roon, you could use the DSP in Roon (not sure if it is on par with the AM DSP or not) prior to sending it to the Luxman. You may want to try that.

You mean my new "Lumin T1"?

The primary reason I bought the Lumin T1 is its capability of being a Roon Ready / Endpoint with a built in DAC, so that the USB connection is completely eliminated. So rather than having a Roon Ready Endpoint (my current SMS-200 from SOtM) "feeding" a preamp via USB, using the Lumin T1 to do both duties.

DSP in Roon is NOT capable of room correction (yet). I know they are working on it - no device - just everything in the existing software / digital domain.

WC

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #70 on: 18 Sep 2017, 04:12 pm »
Sorry, I meant Lumin.  :oops:

I don't use Roon, so I wasn't sure how advanced its DSP implementation was.

Escott1377

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #71 on: 21 Sep 2017, 03:08 pm »
My comments were incorrect regarding the analog / digital connection.

However, the Dspeaker only runs up to 500 Hz, so I am not sure you are going to hear much audible affect when using.

I use a component DAC and I use the DSpeaker only for room correction.

As you have noted, you can turn the DSpeaker on and off and hear its benefits.


gregfisk

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #72 on: 22 Sep 2017, 01:20 am »
Since you are using Roon, you could use the DSP in Roon (not sure if it is on par with the AM DSP or not) prior to sending it to the Luxman. You may want to try that.

I have heard the DSP in Roon first hand at a friends house and it is the real deal. He was able to increase the bass output without any degradation of sound IMO. And we switched between having it on and off and it made a big difference in the presentation. His system is extremely transparent with all of the nuances of a very high end system.

Of course anytime you use room correction it only works in a very small area of the room. His room is small so IMO that is a great application.

Greg

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #73 on: 22 Sep 2017, 08:26 pm »
I have heard the DSP in Roon first hand at a friends house and it is the real deal. He was able to increase the bass output without any degradation of sound IMO. And we switched between having it on and off and it made a big difference in the presentation. His system is extremely transparent with all of the nuances of a very high end system.

Of course anytime you use room correction it only works in a very small area of the room. His room is small so IMO that is a great application.

Greg

Roon does not do Room Correction (yet). DSP is one thing, and room correction is another.

brj

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #74 on: 25 Sep 2017, 08:00 am »
The Roon DSP module will apply a room correction (impulse response) filter to the music stream via its convolution engine.  It just doesn't have the ability to automatically generate the filter in the first place, but you can do that in Room EQ Wizard, Dirac, etc..  The DSPeaker unit can handle both parts of the process.

(I use Roon - though usually with HQPlayer for filter convolution and upsampling rather than the Roon DSP engine - but I have no experience with DSPeaker, so I really can't comment on the quality of one vs. the other.)

Kal Rubinson

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #75 on: 25 Sep 2017, 11:49 am »
Yes, ROON will do roomEQ or any other filter that you want.  It still cannot generate the filters but you can create almost any kind you want.  It is certainly as efficient as using a DSPeaker filter as the Dual-Core is but without the insertion of additional hardware.   

FWIW, you can do similar in JRiver.

thyname

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Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #76 on: 27 Sep 2017, 12:13 pm »
Yes, ROON will do roomEQ or any other filter that you want.  It still cannot generate the filters but you can create almost any kind you want.  It is certainly as efficient as using a DSPeaker filter as the Dual-Core is but without the insertion of additional hardware.   

FWIW, you can do similar in JRiver.

So with Roon, you would measure the room frequency response with a microphone, then apply the appropriate DSP correction to fix whatever you are not happy with?

Delacroix

Re: DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core
« Reply #77 on: 3 Oct 2017, 12:18 am »
Excuse my ignorance but from what I can see on their site, the Anti-Mode is updatable only via PC, not Mac, right? I presume you can download before/after data to a Mac via the USB connection, so what software are Mac users employing to view frequency graphs?