[violetmachan]

Part 3 “WINTER WARMERS” on the musical stairway to heaven…..the cable comparison


http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119143.0


Finally managed to in-corporate an entire loom of VSA-MB ultra-extreme cables



1.   2 sets of ultras interconnects XLR……6months ago

2.   One IC  xlr from pre amp (tenor preamp1) to power amps (tenor 350M HP monoblocks)

3.   One IC xlr from  source CD player (emmlabs xds1 V2 with latest firmware) to preamp

4.   Late December 2014, two sets of Ultra extreme speakers cables arrived.i.e 4 separate single runs of speaker cables per side, so 8 in total.

A true biwire configuration( was fixated eversince listening to cor`s 8piece Harmonic tech speaker cables)






The musical stairway has taken a detour for the active cable run-in program since the 2nd jan2015

The tenor combo setup is decommissioned for some months ....to save precious tube life .

Currently using the meridian 861 processor and the 558 five channel power amp….ie  base unit one power channel and monitor unit one power channel ….that’s each vsa 9se mark2  speaker powered  by two power modules…..this employs all sets of the VSA ultra extreme  xlr interconnects and all the 8 pieces of speaker wires

The Ultra extreme ICs were not really run-in/optimised…..even though they were connected for 6months…..still had a mildly recessed midrange!....this might have been the emmlabs old firmware.


Ideally should have bought/invested in a good industrial Kable Kooker to really do justice for the ultrawhite linear accelerator cables .


I would like to hear your valuable comments from all the VSA owners and experts….on the topic of “TO KABLE KOOK OR NOT FOR VSA CABLES”


FRESH OUT OF THE BOX IMPRESSIONS





Very simple and subtle but suave!
With a little twinkle in the external casing…..which is a very radiant nearly Luminescent white?

Soft to touch , very amorphous in texture and extremely pliable.
bass set is slighter tubbier that the monitor set
Albert did mention its position in the setup......said to be very sensitive in this aspect.




WARNING NOTICE, Leaflet included in the Box along with certificate

From  albert von schweikert and the MB team


Runin period over 1000 plus hours as minimum.

The first 200 hours are very brutal…..will make you question why you wanted to purchase the ultra`s ….especially the speaker cables.!!!.

The fantastic sound will develop slowly over time.

So please be patient and enjoy!


Footnote: “You cannot make a Comparison until YOU HAVE DONE YOUR TIME”!





I have done  a little over 300 hours in the last 18 days…….using combination of 
a very special Cable burnin disc,
collision course –Linkin Park/jay-z Cd and
albert`s choice Night Train solo by Christain Mcbride Cd


This loom of VSA-MB ultra extremes ,especially the speaker cables has a hidden and subtle very real life like quality…..which is an absolute real gem in making.
Good Kooking Time hopefully will release All their magic.



Three very positive features were striking from the start


1.   The system sounded like I had all RCA connectors…..I , actually have all xlrs

2.   Very realistic musical scale!!

3.   Excellent micro dynamic clarity/detail that does NOT distract from the real music
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We unfortunately could not have the speaker cables specially Kable Kooked in Albert`s Factory….as the actual process of kooking the 8 speaker cables ,killed alberts industrial kooking abilities for a while!
He did inform me a few days ago that he now has an extra special high ampererage Industrial Kable Kooker


So, like the very first user of an entire loom of ultra-extremes….ie Jim from the Ministry/Minister of sound Palace in Philippines(just on the lighter side, Jim)
I definitely will have to do my time!


The first 200 hours was very brutal on the ears……but now the highs are much sweeter and the Bass is getting louder and the package is coming alive, harmonically richer and very real!


I will enjoy the ride and will keep you posted……and even in this stage in a very real way, much superior to the vsa-mb signatures!!.

Unfortunately it does make the VSA signatures sound very high resolution ,very hifish in comparison with the ultra extremes.

The Ultras does have a very strange but true fabulous quality of sounding very natural and unstrained at ALL listening volume settings

This does cause a lot of excitement to what the sound would be , once the 1000plus hours of runin is done

Funny that the Vsa signatures speaker biwires I have lived with very happily from more than 6 plus years.


Handcuffed all the way ,along the musical stairway to heaven" Psychedelic Audio Imprisonment".....Must do my Ultra time!


Co-incidentally,  Cor and his partner from Holland and the very same group of dysfunctional doctors from Spain and England and the retired eclectic bunch from UK……
We all did meet in my place for two nights,  last week of Nov2014 to reunite and enjoy the sound and compare the cables…….
unfortunately it went way way beyond just sound!!.....and listening
sad but true ,no comparison was done!


Will keep you posted in the dim and distant future!


Activeviolet

sam

[kernelbob]

I am so envious of your over the top Ultra loom.  I have a partial Ultra system with one set of balanced interconnects, currently doing duty between my DAC and preamp.  The rest of my system is MasterBuilt Signature including interconnects, speaker cables, and the most awesome of the MB Signature series, a set of five power cords.  Unique Ultra components in  my system are my VR100 towers.  Their internal wiring throughout is with the MB Ultra.  That took a year of development time as Delphi zeroed in on the final high current Ultra design.

Regarding the break-in period, my VR100's of course had pre-shipment conditioning at the factory, but they continue to settle in three months after installation.  In fact, I had removed some of the damping material from the inboard woofers because (I thought) my room needed more bass.  Now that several months have gone by, I'm going to need to reinsert some of that damping material since the bass has really fleshed out.  Once again, I should have just been patient and let the system settle into the design of it's creator.

I got the pair of two meter Ultra interconnects after I had several weeks of time on the 100's.  My experience mirrored yours, with me thinking the Ultras didn't make as much of an improvement as I initially heard in the prototype ICs I had after Axpona 2013.  After many weeks, they're still improving, surprising me with new levels of fine detail and with bass weight and resolution that continues to amaze me (also kudos to the XS subwoofers).

I suppose it's inevitable that I'll add at least another pair of Ultra interconnects between the preamp and the mid/tweeter amp.  Now that Ultra speaker cable exists, I'll have to have some conversations with Albert on their potential impact to my system.

For anyone auditioning Ultra, they do take a very, very long time to reach their ultimate performance potential, but your patience will be rewarded with nuances that you didn't think possible in your system.

[htradtk]

Greetings! Can I ask the prices on these ultras? Also, is the internal wiring on the new 55's use them?

Henry

[Wig]

Put those cables on an Audiodharma cable cooker and prepare to be AMAZED!

Wig

[JackD201]

Luckily Minister Jim is not using his audioharma since he's burned in his loom and all the cables are now in action. That means I can borrow his cooker! 

[Holli82]

Thanks for sharing Sam
Enjoy the ride

[violetmachan]

hello guys

Hi kernel bob

I did have bass issues when I was with the vr7se mark1 and mark2......was very difficult to make them work in my room, but the vr9se mark2 no such issues......the flexibility of the the 9s and it's room interaction have been its makers hallmark and has worked as a dream in my living space
The ultras IC s and now the  speaker cables ......I am very sure it will come to all its glory in about 4to 6 months time ......hoping!

Still very tempted on buying an audiodharma kable kooker......but thoroughly enjoying the runin program with my cinema system
strange but true I do find the BBC news broadcasts just  for sound quality and not for content an excellent metre for audible sound .....well!

hello wig.....very tempted in buying the kooker

Hello Henry ,
I am sure Albert will be able to give you all the information.....I am aware of only Jim with the Vr111  special project who has the entire speaker system wired internally with the ultras and also has the very first all ultra extreme loom ....and kernel bob have his 100 x internals wired the same
as for the vr55 ..I am sure Albert can do special magic if your keen

Hello Jack
Jack and Jim I presume  your are the magic partners from the palace of sound.
Iwish I lived close to you guys .......kable kooking I think is a must for the ultras speaker cables....my set of 8 was a little excess.....I feel it does all the magic .....I really like the 8 picec from Cors HT speaker cables
Did jim and you cook the cables for 500plus hours
Is there a limit on cable cooking and I am sure there must be a overkooking too
Has the vr111 project complete ......I presume you now have the vr11...are you using the ultra sp cables too
photos jack!

Hello Rodney
very nice to hear from you, it was special meeting you in Chicago  in oct2014...strange about your card slip!.....are you up for the Vegas meet
I sure you setup in your dedicated room must be special.....must try to make time this year if possible and only if you feel upto to it.

cheers guys.......don't forget your input on kable kooking!

Sam

[JackD201]

Hi Sam,

Jim and I are indeed extremely close. Not often do you find brothers who are also best buddies, Keith is our cousin but we consider him more of a brother as well. Jim is not involved in PureSound Philippines, Keith and I are the partners.

Albert says the 111s are close to shipping. In the meantime, funny enough, the dealer is using a loaner from a client as I am currently using his 9 Mk2s 
My pair was sold some months back to as they say in the NBA, make "cap space"    I wish I could go for the Ultras but to be honest, they are out of my budget for a full loom. I may be able to swing for some short ICs. I certainly can't go for the 12m I would require from Pre to Monos. When the 111s get here, I will take in the 11s. 

I live vicariously through Jim, Robert and you when it comes to the Ultras. My time with them as a Beta Tester was pretty awesome. This is one instance where I thank my lucky stars that aural memory is short  I really have no complaints whatsoever with the Signatures. They are our secret weapons for shows, at least they were until word got out! Never say never though. You never know when the planets might line up!

[violetmachan]

hello jack

what's your views on kable kooking! keeping in mind the very long runin period for the ultras

As for the biwire signatures for me they did serve me very well for 6 years ......currently hooked them to my centre channel .....this makes conversation sound so real and inthe room experience mighty real........ hopefully after the 1000 plus hours we get a better picture!!

[kernelbob]

Hi Sam (violetmachan),

re: my comment on the VR100's and bass.  The point I was trying to make was that based on the initial sound of the system, the bass seemed to need a bit more punch in my installation, so with Albert's approval I removed a specific, small amount of damping material from the inboard woofers (only).  As the system has settled in, the bass has filled out and I've had to return damping material.  I should have been more patient and just waited for the internal Ultra wiring of the 100's to break-in as Albert said they would.  Now the bass is quite full, fast, and highly resolving, consistent with the rest of the 100's signature. 

Interestingly, the integration of the external XS subwoofers at the back of the room with the towers is quite seamless and has the effect of extending the soundstage into and through my listening room.  It may sound like overkill since you have built-in subs in the 9's, but I suspect a pair of XS subwoofers in the back of your listening room might add to your system's already exceptional sense of realism.  Of course Albert would be the person to ask if this is crazy.

[htradtk]

Sam,

Thanks so much! As a happy owner of the VR-5 Anniversary MKII combined with the Signature Masterbuilt cables, I would love to upgrade to the ultra's with either the 55's or the 9 MKII's, there one little issue, $$$. Maybe one day, we shall see.

Henry

[JackD201]

hello jack

what's your views on kable kooking! keeping in mind the very long runin period for the ultras

As for the biwire signatures for me they did serve me very well for 6 years ......currently hooked them to my centre channel .....this makes conversation sound so real and inthe room experience mighty real........ hopefully after the 1000 plus hours we get a better picture!!

I don't know why and I don't know how but ABs between cooked and uncooked is obvious. A cooker just saves so much time.

[violetmachan]

hello K.bob

I am sure your very special 100x with ultra internal wiring.......just needs lots of playing/ runin time for the magic to become obvious  in your listening room.I am sure it should sound thunderously real.

Cor had suggested .....ie bringing the 100x to Europe / Munich show followed by a nice home .
For me if all the stars want to twinkle my way , I may think about it.
my room and it's interactions with the vr99se is just nice for me.
I am hoping once the complete ultra extreme loom comes to full potential .I will be in heaven!

strange the cable link and it's effects on sound.....the addition of the 8 seperate speaker cables seems to make all the difference......well against the standard rule ....power cables, ICs finally Speaker cables

the ultra speaker ......is beginning to show its true magic......very superior to all previous cables I have used!!!

This final program is a must for you......you'll be smiling by the end of the year.....

enjoy bob

hello jack

I fully understand your choice
here in uk to get a local hifi dealer to cable cook is difficult
Is there any other cable cooker/ company that available .......in this side of the world!
The only one the comes up  on a net search is the Kable Kooker from AudioDharma from US

Is there any chance your are happy to part with your cooker .....as a loan for a few months to me in UK
Is there anything like excess cable cooking......ie OVER KOOKING YOUR WIRES!

[JackD201]

I believe Nordost made a cooker called the VIDAR. That would be available to you locally yes?

The cooker here is Jim's not mine. I also believe that we have different mains voltage. We use IECs at 230v/60Hz. Not sure you could use it even if I had one to lend.

As for over cooking, Albert would be the one to ask. I'm really not sure. There have been sketchy reports of over cooking so people reportedly just cook their cables a bit short and run the cables in for the now fewer remaining hours.

[Wig]

violetmachan,

Over cooking cables is not a problem but will sound hyper-detailed, it will take a few extra days to settle in with on/off cycles. I've owned cables for years with thousands of hours on them and never really heard what that cable sounded like until a friend of mine cooked them and what a surprise...

Wig

[ACHiPo]

Um... back of the envelope guesstimating has the cost of these cables at about $100k US for this system? 

I'm sorry, I want to believe in cables.  I've got what I think to be an excessive amount invested in cables, and yet much less than an order of magnitude less than these.

...and you can't give 'em a listen for 1000 hours?  Can you even still remember what your system sounded like after 6 weeks of not listening to it while the cables break in?

From the MB website: "superconducting wires developed for the Hadron Supercollider", but that doesn't mean a lot, given that those wires were running near zero K at CERN, not 300 k as in a typical listening room.

Why would you expect RCAs to sound better than XLR?

I'm happy you're in audio nirvana, but help me understand?

Thanks,
AC

[BigSwede]

I want to believe in cables.

I don't. But my ears tell me otherwise...

[violetmachan]

hello jack

thanks for the info and update......I only wish Albert was able to do the initial cooking.....may be 200 hours.
I  would have been happy to slowly plode along with the rest .

The delays in production time and trying to get the full loom ready for the late November meeting........it was unfortunate that Albert's cooker died while trying to cook all 8 cables at the same time
well I am happy to enjoy the ride.......I presume that's part of the fun!

Thanks BigSwede ......it's nice to hear that you still believe in what you hear. good

Hi AC

I do get your point...I , like you have never believed in cables.

I am sure this passion/madness for perceived sound what people call as music.....is unfortunately soooo so subjective  and there comes a point where you hardly have any returns for all the hardearned money you waste?

Now AC for your million dollar question....what sounds fine for me and my room may be a misadventure for you.....
I do  trust My head and make sure my eyes don`t betray my ears and always hoping my  bank is sound!.........most important I make sure to ride the wave and  constantly learning to enjoy the ride!......still unable to master the wave !!.....most of the time it's a total bum trip....but hey!

 I strongly believe in what I see , hear and remember ....It does not take me long to know what sounds good for me......unfortunately I still have a very clear , distinct and instant recall program ....installed in brain!.....probably artificial conditioning

This ultra cables especially the speaker cables.......give a subtle but definite tilt to what I like to hear.....
It would Have been ideal to have had the various set optimally primed and cooked , when it costs a bomb

well !......AC......I don't think I was of any help

[JackD201]

Hi AC,

I love your car!

That short term aural memory as I've said earlier (and the lack of adequate disposable income  ) have pretty much saved me from taking the leap. I really do get to sleep quite soundly. Unfortunately while I may not remember exactly what I did hear, the impressions left behind are much easier to remember. This is especially so because the whole thing was rather funny.

I tested the Beta XLRs (Geometry A, Formulation A) for the first time in the bedroom system. My wife is used to me doing these Beta tests since I do it for 3 companies' prototypes, not just VSA. The system at the time was Unifield 3s with Lamm Electronics and EERA source. I had just hit play and my wife begun to chuckle. I looked over and she said (translated from Filipino) "You are in sooooooo much trouble!" while continuing to chuckle. That would be funny enough but you see my wife while Filipina hardly speaks any Filipino. She grew up in New York. It reminded me of that line from the movie Lord of War.  The one where one always resorts to his native tongue in times of anger…or ecstacy. I guess only truly bilingual folks really get this.  Anyway my point is that they were that good. This coming from the guy that did a lot of shooting down of the first versions of the Standard and Signature prototypes which before they were revised and commercially released. There was little to fault with the prototypes but then again they were cooked cables. 1000 hours is a horribly long time. That's a 10th of the life of my NOS signal tubes!  Anybody interested in these or any long burn-in time cables should invest in a cooker IMO. In the long run (pun intended  ) it is a worthwhile investment.

As for cost, I always leave that to the individual's personal judgement. In my case, I have priorities audio (Speaker Change, looking into a new line of Electronics to carry) and non-audio (Life always gets in the way!  ) that trump an all out cable loom change so in that regard the price is not right for me at the moment.

[ACHiPo]

Hi AC,

I love your car!

I tested the Beta XLRs (Geometry A, Formulation A) for the first time in the bedroom system. My wife is used to me doing these Beta tests since I do it for 3 companies' prototypes, not just VSA. The system at the time was Unifield 3s with Lamm Electronics and EERA source. I had just hit play and my wife begun to chuckle. I looked over and she said (translated from Filipino) "You are in sooooooo much trouble!" while continuing to chuckle. 

That would be funny enough but you see my wife while Filipina hardly speaks any Filipino. She grew up in New York. It reminded me of that line from the movie Lord of War.  The one where one always resorts to his native tongue in times of anger…or ecstacy. I guess only truly bilingual folks really get this. 

In the long run (pun intended  ) it is a worthwhile investment.

As for cost, I always leave that to the individual's personal judgement. In my case, I have priorities audio (Speaker Change, looking into a new line of Electronics to carry) and non-audio (Life always gets in the way!  ) that trump an all out cable loom change so in that regard the price is not right for me at the moment.

Thanks for the response.  It is not my car in my avatar, just a dream (consistent with my nickname), as would be $100k cables if I allowed myself to entertain that dream.

I'm glad my comments/question was taken in the spirit it was intended.  I guess I'm not allowing myself to believe, as I couldn't afford it if I did. 

I do think cables make a difference.  I bristle, however, when pseudo-science like the CERN reference is used.  I guess it's just another way of trying to explain differences that aren't easily measured.