LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"

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BobRex

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #40 on: 22 Feb 2015, 09:49 pm »
The LIO AVC (autoformer volume control) is premium volume control option (but much larger because of the use of 1 autoformer per channel, so it takes up the location of the optional LIO TUBESTAGE module).  LIO AVC has the same fine control (64 steps, and balance control) as LIO RVC above.

So does this mean you can't do the TVC and tube stage?  I was thinking that those 2 stages plus a small class A amp stage, with maybe a pre-out for woofers would make one hell of an integrated.

TomS

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #41 on: 22 Feb 2015, 10:42 pm »
So does this mean you can't do the TVC and tube stage?  ...
Yes, that is correct, as they take up the same mounting area on the motherboard.

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #42 on: 23 Feb 2015, 04:08 am »
Vinnie - I met you at a headphone meet many moons ago.  Glad to witness your success.  Any plans on multichannel support?

Hi HeadStrong,

Welcome to the VR forum, and thank you!

I have no plans to offer multichannel (HT) support with LIO.  It is strictly for 2-channel home audio.  In the future, there might be
bi-amping support, active crossover, etc. - but it will be for 2-channel systems.  The internal architecture / layout of the LIO MB (motherboard,
or "main board") was optimized via a 4-layer board for the routing / signal flow of 2 channels.  No support was added in for more than 2 audio channels. 

Quote
Hi Vinnie,

1) Big +1 on that low-power class A amp module. 

2) Bigger +1 on the airplay streaming functionality or something similar.  I'm the one who was asking about 16V out to an Auralic Aries, but the best of all would be built-in streaming capability, even if just for 16/44.1.  For me - and probably for many - that would mean no need for an Auralic Aries or similar, as long as the jitter reduction was sufficient.

Hi lousyreeds1,

I hear you loud and clear on both - and both are equally likely to happen in 2015!   :thumb:
But most likely NOT at the same time.

Quote
So does this mean you can't do the TVC and tube stage?  I was thinking that those 2 stages plus a small class A amp stage, with maybe a pre-out for woofers would make one hell of an integrated.

Hi BobRex,

I hear the interest of you and others with regards to wanting both AVC and tubes - and this is something that John and I will be looking into this year. 

I don't want to sound like a politician who just says "YES!" to everything - but I do believe there is a good chance that we can make it happen.  But for it to actually be offered, it has to be tested to sound better than BOTH the AVC and Tubestage modules. :whip:   Until we try, we won't know...

Quote
Yes, that is correct, as they take up the same mounting area on the motherboard.

Hi TomS,

This is true, so to implement what BobRex and others have inquired about (AVC and tubes), it would have to be both on the same module (3" x 6", I believe).

As of now, it is one or the other...

Thanks for all your posts! 

Vinnie

Gerry E.

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #43 on: 25 Feb 2015, 10:54 pm »
Hi Vinnie:

I was pleasantly surprised to see my suggestion of a low-watt class A amp was not only feasible but there are other nut-jobs people who are interested in it (please add a +1 if you are interested and haven't "voted" yet).

Since I'm batting 1.000 I decided to make another suggestion.  It's not like you don't have enough attenuator options already (AVC, RVC and RVC + Tube Stage) but how about a LDR attenuator?  Similar to what Tortuga Audio is doing.  Morten from Tortuga could even be a potential partner like Dave Slagle is for the AVC.

I'm currently using a tube preamp but have used most other types in the past - SS, LDR, AVC, RVC, etc.  In some ways, I liked the LDR the best!       

Please tell me I'm still batting 1.000!   :)

Gerry   
« Last Edit: 26 Feb 2015, 03:50 pm by Gerry E. »

jtwrace

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #44 on: 25 Feb 2015, 11:07 pm »
I think a Tortuga LDR option is a great idea!  Size could be an issue at first unless Morten worked very hard on packaging.  On the other hand, it could be a lower cost option to the Autoformer.  I did try both (own Bent) and reported my findings here. 

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #45 on: 26 Feb 2015, 01:08 am »
I was pleasantly surprised to see my suggestion of a low-watt class A amp was not only feasible but there are other nut-jobs people who are interested in it (please add a +1 if you are interested and haven't "voted" yet).

Hi Gerry,

You are not alone.  We are in this nut-house forum together!  :green:

Quote
It's not like you don't have enough attenuator options already (AVC, RVC and RVC + Tube Stage) but how about a LDR attenuator?  Similar to what Tortuga Audio is doing.  Morten from Tortuga could even be a potential partner like Dave Slagle is for the AVC.

I don't see why the Tortuga Audio design could not be implemented onto a board to work with LIO.  But there would need to be some custom firmware written to make the LDR board "talk" to our front panel control board.  I would need to get John Chapman on that one with Morten - but to be upfront, we have a lot of other things that are of higher priority to do first (and I'm still figuring out that priority list).

Quote
Please tell me I'm still batting .1000!

Isn't that considered batting one hundred?  Wouldn't you want to be batting three hundred (.300) or higher to be a good batter?  :scratch:
But sure - you are still batting .1000 if you want.  I'm not going to take that away for you.  :icon_lol:

Keep 'em coming,

Vinnie

rodge827

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #46 on: 26 Feb 2015, 03:19 am »
How about a Martini Module that can be custom programed for the listeners preferred blend? :D  (Oops forgot this is the spawn of Red Wine Audio...Merlot Module?)  :wink:

A Remote Mute Module that can be implanted into a significant other?  8)
Press "On' and there's no noise, press "Off" and run like hell for the beat down that's about to take place.  :green:

All kidding aside the Ultra-capacitor Power Supply looks like a real good idea and the NOS Dac Module has my vote.  :thumb:

Chris

Gerry E.

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 17
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #47 on: 26 Feb 2015, 04:05 pm »
Hi Gerry,

I don't see why the Tortuga Audio design could not be implemented onto a board to work with LIO.  But there would need to be some custom firmware written to make the LDR board "talk" to our front panel control board.  I would need to get John Chapman on that one with Morten - but to be upfront, we have a lot of other things that are of higher priority to do first (and I'm still figuring out that priority list).

Isn't that considered batting one hundred?  Wouldn't you want to be batting three hundred (.300) or higher to be a good batter?  :scratch:
But sure - you are still batting .1000 if you want.  I'm not going to take that away for you.  :icon_lol:

Vinnie


Batting .1000?  BUSTED!  And math is supposed to be my strong suit!  But what's a misplaced decimal point amongst friends?  I have corrected it.

I realize you have many higher priority items to work on.  Examples include building and shipping production units and maybe my class A amp idea later in the year.  However, once again, I'm just happy to hear that my idea is feasible!  Thanks.

Gerry     

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #48 on: 27 Feb 2015, 06:53 pm »
All,

Based on posts here and numerous emails, here is what you will mostly likely see next in terms
of LIO modules:

- A LIO INPUTS module with a least 1 set of XLR inputs (balanced)
- A LIO OUTPUTS module with a least 1 set of XLR outputs (balanced)

These will most likely come first, as offering an option of balanced IN/OUT has been something that I was
hoping to have time for when we released LIO.


- A module combining AVC and Tubestage.  This would still give you the 64 steps from -54dB to +7dB, in 1dB step sizes - and
would be followed by the tubestage buffer (low output impedance of < 200 ohms).  And of course, would be an effort to combine
the best of what the slagleformers and tubestage have to offer!  :thumb:

- Wireless audio module - I am actually making a connection with a new company that seems to have a spectacular solution (I will get
samples in due time)!  I can't go into detail yet, but it does not look "compromised" at all, on paper that is.  :wink:

- John Chapman has been super busy and getting ready for a move of his business and home, but he has been chugging away at the LIO bluetooth control interface (this is not for audio, but for remote control of the LIO via a free app for iOS and Android to use on your smart phone / tablet).  It will be ready for LIO customers sometime this Spring!


AFTER the ideas above, I'll be diggin' into other things such as:

- A low-power Class A amp module.  As I've mentioned earlier, if we keep the power down to only a handful of
watts at the most, I think something very special came be made here for those with high efficiency speakers.  Do NOT expect
anything more than around 2 to 5W... just being realistic.  But they would be pure Class A watts (MOSFET output stage). 

- There seems to be some interest in an NOS dac topology

- Also, a crossover-related module.

I know there are other ideas, and there are all good and I LOVE your feedback here.  But I do need to prioritize things and do
it based on your feedback here and via emails. 

And then there is another product - that dedicated, configurable ultracap power supply...  8)

Exciting stuff!  Please join our email list if you have not already done so to get updates:

http://vinnierossi.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=8732927ed821bd32f5f0fca4b&id=031c47d651

And you know I'll be posting on the VR forum here as well  :thumb:

Vinnie

TomS

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #49 on: 27 Feb 2015, 07:38 pm »
I love the idea of the AVC/Tubestage, as well as balanced I/O :thumb:

I assume the plan would still be for XLR I/O's to convert BAL to SE internally if using this AVC/TS option.
Otherwise you'd have to find a way to cram 4 Slagleformer modules in there  :duh:

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #50 on: 27 Feb 2015, 07:48 pm »
I love the idea of the AVC/Tubestage, as well as balanced I/O :thumb:

I assume the plan would still be for XLR I/O's to convert BAL to SE internally if using this AVC/TS option.
Otherwise you'd have to find a way to cram 4 Slagleformer modules in there  :duh:

Hi TomS,

Thank you. 

Yes - you are correct. 

Vinnie

Blu99Zoomer

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 152
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #51 on: 3 Mar 2015, 10:05 pm »
Hi All,

I had a chance to listen for a couple of hours to a fully loaded LIO in a near field setup using Harbeth 40.1 speakers.  These are about 84db speakers.  No trouble driving them to plenty of volume!  It was amazing for sure!  At one point we stopped the music and placed our ears against the speakers.  Not a sound was heard by these old ears!  Anyway, listening made us think what a nice add-on module would the chip Keanu Reeves had in his movie Matrix if it could be tied to the volume control on LIO. :roll:  What do you say?  I say, THANKS Vinnie!!

Best Regards,

Blu99Zoomer

lousyreeds1

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #52 on: 4 Mar 2015, 11:17 am »
Hi Vinnie,

Great news about the secret wifi project.  I'm very excited to hear details, as the way this is implemented will probably be what makes or breaks LIO for me.  Can I make a plea for Airplay functionality or something similar?  It's really nice to be able to stream music from Tidal/Qobuz etc through an i-device without having a laptop in the listening room or having to buy an expensive networked server.  Maybe there's another way to do this, but I'm not aware of one (I'm assuming you don't want to develop your own app like Auralic or other companies - this often seems to go poorly and must require insane amounts of work).  I know there's the option of just plugging in an airport express to the DAC, but that adds a lot of jitter and I would love to see a better sounding solution, even if it's limited to 16/44.1. 

Thanks as always for taking the time to speak to potential customers about your plans!

matthewpartrick

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 199
  • thecluelessaudiophile.com
    • The Clueless Audiophile
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #53 on: 4 Mar 2015, 04:16 pm »
I plan on going straight from iTunes streaming to an Airport Express behind the LIO, the AE has a toslink output so I bought a toslink to square optical cable that will go straight into the DAC.  If you have an Apple TV you can use that as well; I just happened to pick the Airport Express because it's also a wifi network extender and I didn't need the TV functionality.  That should obviate the need for bluetooth or airplay.  Vinnie told me that there should be no difference in sound quality, just a convenience factor.  Since the streaming module isn't ready yet I wanted to go ahead and go with the AirPort Express.

I have been planning this whole house network thing for a while.  I upgraded all my iTunes files to Lossless if I had the CD and stopped buying AAC files about six months ago.  I then copied everything onto a 2TB hard drive on a Time Capsule.  I have a few hard copies as well, one on just a random 2TB external drive that I unplug and plug back in to update.  So, hopefully I'll be able to stream music to anywhere I have an Airport Express.  I used to have SONOS but didn't really like it.

srb

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #54 on: 4 Mar 2015, 05:15 pm »
If you have an Apple TV you can use that as well; I just happened to pick the Airport Express because it's also a wifi network extender and I didn't need the TV functionality.

Because you have an LIO you're obviously seeking the best sound quality you can, so with your choice of the Airport Express instead of the Apple TV you've also selected the slightly better Airplay device for audio in that the Airport Express will render your 16/44.1 CD rips and files non-manipulated bit perfect while the Apple TV will upsample to them to 48KHz.

Steve

catastrofe

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 859
  • "That's what credit cards are for. . ."
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #55 on: 4 Mar 2015, 05:55 pm »
All,

Based on posts here and numerous emails, here is what you will mostly likely see next in terms
of LIO modules:

- There seems to be some interest in an NOS dac topology


I know there are other ideas, and there are all good and I LOVE your feedback here.  But I do need to prioritize things and do
it based on your feedback here and via emails. 

And then there is another product - that dedicated, configurable ultracap power supply...  8)

Exciting stuff!  Please join our email list if you have not already done so to get updates:

http://vinnierossi.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=8732927ed821bd32f5f0fca4b&id=031c47d651

And you know I'll be posting on the VR forum here as well  :thumb:

Vinnie

Just my $.02, but I've had a lot of high-end DACs in and out of my system and the best performance IMHO has been from units that use either FPGA (a la Chord), or ladder topology (a la MSB).  If you're going to explore other DAC options for the LIO, my vote would be for this format.

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #56 on: 5 Mar 2015, 04:11 am »
Hi All,

I had a chance to listen for a couple of hours to a fully loaded LIO in a near field setup using Harbeth 40.1 speakers.  These are about 84db speakers.  No trouble driving them to plenty of volume!  It was amazing for sure!  At one point we stopped the music and placed our ears against the speakers.  Not a sound was heard by these old ears!  Anyway, listening made us think what a nice add-on module would the chip Keanu Reeves had in his movie Matrix if it could be tied to the volume control on LIO. :roll:  What do you say?  I say, THANKS Vinnie!!

Best Regards,

Blu99Zoomer

Hi Blu99Zoomer,

It was a pleasure having you over, and thank you listening and bringing over some nice albums!  :thumb:

Quote
Can I make a plea for Airplay functionality or something similar?  It's really nice to be able to stream music from Tidal/Qobuz etc through an i-device without having a laptop in the listening room or having to buy an expensive networked server. 

Hi lousyreeds1,

While I can't go into details just yet, it would work like that (no need for expensive networked server, no need for computer in listening room). 

Quote
I plan on going straight from iTunes streaming to an Airport Express behind the LIO, the AE has a toslink output so I bought a toslink to square optical cable that will go straight into the DAC.

Hi matthew,

Did you take a look at this cable:

http://www.lifatec.com/toslink2.html

Very impressive and at a good price, IMO!


Hi srb,

Good point - thanks for sharing that.  8)


Hi catastrofe,

Yes - those two are good ways to do it and can certainly result in great sound.  There are a lot of ways to do d/a conversion, and a lot of variables
that define the overall results.  Devils in the details...

Cheers!

Vinnie

lousyreeds1

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #57 on: 6 Mar 2015, 11:47 am »
Thanks, Vinnie, very excited to see what you come up with.  For the others, my understanding is that Airport Express can do bit-perfect 16/44.1, but it's been shown to transmit really terrible amounts of jitter.  This is part of the reason that there is supposedly a big difference in sound quality between the Airport Express and something like the Auralic Aries, even when both are transmitting 16/44.1 over wifi.  So using a module developed by Vinnie that hopefully is not so jittery would be my strong preference!

christopher3393

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 91
Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #58 on: 6 Mar 2015, 03:45 pm »
Quote
- A module combining AVC and Tubestage.  This would still give you the 64 steps from -54dB to +7dB, in 1dB step sizes - and
would be followed by the tubestage buffer (low output impedance of < 200 ohms).  And of course, would be an effort to combine
the best of what the slagleformers and tubestage have to offer!  :thumb:

Excited to hear how this works out, although concerned about the cost of upgrading to this.

Vinnie R.

Re: LIO Module "Ideas and Suggestions Thread"
« Reply #59 on: 7 Mar 2015, 11:34 pm »
Excited to hear how this works out, although concerned about the cost of upgrading to this.

Hi christopher3393,

Yes, it will definitely be more expensive than just the AVC, but should be less expensive than
the AVC + Tubestage modules individually.

This is one of the modules that I am looking most forward to in the near future!

Vinnie