Directions (Part 2)

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Jazzaudio

Directions (Part 2)
« on: 4 Jun 2013, 07:20 pm »
I just sold my Tekton Lores (98db), and am  weighing several options:

Super 3XRS
Super 3S
Hoyt 1.5

So, why were the Lores sold?  Primarily, the rearrangement of my 24x14 L shape living room (with the the short leg of L actually being about 21 feet) and the large size of the Lores.  Secondarily, Both a Decware Super Zen (2 watts) and a Parks Audio Clementine SE triode-wired 6L6 (5 watt integrated) equally struggled to produce moderate sound levels at my listening position 10 feet away. It seems the Lore's crossover isn't as simple as it seems (believe it has several caps, an inductor, and a resistor per speaker).  But the sound was outstanding with my 70w solid state Dayens Ecstasy II integrated. Plus, the Clementine sounded gorgeous and powerful on some Klipsch Fortes (with crossovers rebuilt with Mundorfs SIO caps and air core inductors) in a room as large as mine, so I know that amp has great potential. Consequently, both amps are staying!

I had the Fostex-based 3XRS in 2006, but that appears to be completely different animal from the RS5 version, making the new Super 3XRS appealing.  The 3S is taller, but slimmer, with both being in the 38-40hz low-end range (a minimum for me...the lower end is so essential for me).  However, the Hoyt's 1.5 97db rating catches my attention also (with the tube amp in mind) along with it's compact XRS-like size.  But it doesn't go as low as the Super 3XRS or 3S, even when vented.

Opinions welcomed!

Louis O

Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #1 on: 4 Jun 2013, 11:15 pm »
Hi Jazzaudio,

Many thanks for your post and also being an owner of the Super 3 XRS. You're correct about the RS5 drivers as they are on a much higher level than the Fostex.

The amps you have are great and I would keep them too. The Decware is very popular and has been in production for a long time and running 6L6's SE is my favorite use of the 6L6's.

I thought I would share an email that I received today from a very experienced amp builder regarding the Super 3S's. I asked permission from Randy and he was happy to say yes. So here it is and many thanks Randy.

Louis,

I received my Super 3S's yesterday and even thought they are not yet broken in, I am amazed at the performance. They look great and sound even better. I can't wait until the surrounds and webbing loosen up a bit. I think I even like these better than the Hoyt's, which were also great. The slightly smaller driver with bigger cabinet seems to be a good combination. The 94db efficiency matches very will with my new 300B amp. I get great sound all the way down to a -40db volume setting and I can hear music all the way down to -60db volume reduction. The bass response is also amazing. I pulled out my spectrum analyzer and I get a low end cut-off between 30 and 40 Hz. The 30Hz signal does not move very much but the 40 Hz signal is very responsive. The highs are great and should warm up a little once the speakers break in. Thanks for the great work and a great product.

Randy

Passive crossover components do interfere and reduce your SPL.

The Super 3S will give the best bass response in the super 3 series and they will give you excellent low level resolution too.

The new MultiPoint version will give 98-99dB in 4 ohm which I believe the Decware really likes.

The MultiPoint is Bipole-Dipole version with drivers facing front as well as rear. Can also be configured in 16 ohm.

Thanks again,
Louis


Canada Rob

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Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #2 on: 4 Jun 2013, 11:58 pm »
Jazzaudio,

I have just been evaluating the Audio Boutique Artist (which is a single tube per output 6L6, 6550, all the KTs, EL34, etc. SET) on a pair of the new RS5 driver Super 3XRS and the results are amazing.  I also have a Super Zen Select and it is also wonderful sounding with the Super 3XRS.  As Louis says the Super 3S with it's deeper bass would be a great match for your amps.  My listening area is shooting across one end of a 13' x 25' x 9' high room and I have no volume issues.

Jazzaudio

Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #3 on: 5 Jun 2013, 12:37 am »
Thanks for the quick response Louis! Randy's review nailed the question and concerns I had! Is that the Randy from Kentucky? 

I have to admit I was intrigued with all the work you put into the RS5 driver, but if Randy has no output problems with a 300B (and compared it to the Hoyt), then I'm sold on the RS5 driver!! But you had to throw in the 98-99db MultiPoint!! option :)

 I guess it will boil down to the cost difference, and any advantages I would gain with the multi drivers in my room.  I'm sure the Decware would love it!! But I sold it a while ago.  I had the 6-16 ohm output transformer option installed on it, after learning from Tekton the 10" main driver (from where the vast majority sound emanated) never dipped below 8 ohms, and peaked at 16ohms ( at 1khz I believe). The tweeter did dip to 4 ohms at some point, giving it the 8 ohm overall rating, but in real music the Decware had no chance in my room.  Oddly enough, the Clementine 6L6 at 5w (single ended and triode-wired with no feedback) had the exact same volume trouble, even though both had zero volume problems when heard through a Klipsch Forte with a killer crossover.  The 6L6 is a great tube!  I was tempted to return to the Klipsch Forte, but the cost of one in great condition coupled with the cost of diaphragm upgrades and outstanding caps and inductors (and resistors, for that matter) brings me to the cost of the Super 3 models and Hoyt 1.5.  Might as well nix the crossover altogether, particularly if I can still get a solid 40hz response.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Super 3S! 

Jazzaudio

Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #4 on: 5 Jun 2013, 12:45 am »
Thanks Canada Rob!  The 3S seems like the ticket.  The Clementine amp I have also handles KT66, KT88, KT77, etc without changing bias. Actually, it was the current Gold Lion KT-66s I heard with the Klipsch that stunned me.  I can only imagine their sound without a crossover

rlyach

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Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #5 on: 5 Jun 2013, 08:28 pm »
Jazz,

This is the Randy Louis was referring to. I will add one more piece of information. The amp I am using is an audionote Kit1, which is rated at 8.5 watts per channel. I am using Sophia Electric Princess Mesh plate 300B's. I also have a Khozmo 48 point shunt stepped attenuator installed, which will not allow the amp to get all the way to full power. I get a 2dB(v) drop right off the bat. In this configuration, I measured 105 dB volume using a sound pressure meter at 7 feet at a volume setting of about -6dB to -9dB V of attenuation. I could not stand to turn it up all the way. At normal listening levels (80 to 90 dB volume). My volume knob is set at -30dBV. I hope this information helps.


Louis O

Re: Directions (Part 2)
« Reply #6 on: 10 Jun 2013, 11:11 pm »
Hi Randy,


Many thanks for your post and picture. The amp looks fantastic and I really like Audio Note gear a lot. Wish I could be able to hear it with the 3S's.

Thanks again,
Louis