[Thunder240]

I own a few hi-res files, which I store on my MacBook Pro and occasionally play via optical to DAC, but what's stopping me from buying more is that I can't figure out a good system architecture to support playback over a network to each of my two systems. (My standard def music library is housed in iTunes, from which I can use AirPlay to play it to either system over my wireless network, and I'm addicted to this convenience).

Can you all offer my some ideas for how I might create a library of hi-def music and play it over a network to either system? The systems, as they are currently laid out, are:

1. Sony BDP-S58 & Airport Express -> Emotiva XDA-1 DAC -> crossover, amp & speakers

2. PS3 (early 60 GB version) & Airport Express -> Denon 3808ci receiver -> amp & speakers

Additional equipment includes MacBook Pro, iPhone 5, NuForce Icon HDP, several sets of headphones, and a Verizon FIOS modem/router.

I would be open to setting up a dedicated music server or otherwise adding some additional hardware (up to, say, $1000). Ideally I'd be able to control pkayback from either my iPhone or my MBP. It's important to me that my MBP remain wireless (I don't want to have to connect it to my systems with USB, optical, or Ethernet).

Any ideas?

[ted_b]

I moved this to the Discless Circle only because I think you'll get way better experiences over here about your network questions. 

[Phil A]

Stuff like JRiver has an app for iPhone type control and is $50 for the software if you have a PC.  I'll eventually get that, although I probably will just do local to one system.

[Phil A]

I'm using one of these which is under $1k as a dedicated music server - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=111932.60

[Thunder240]

Phil, thanks the the suggestions!

If JRiver can stream hi-res to a PS3 using DNLA, that may be the answer. (I could replace the Sony BDP with a second PS3 -- my wife will love that!) do you happen to know if this is possible?

I'll read up on the MS-2 and see what I can learn about it.

Another hardware solution appears to be the Audioengine D2. Although with 2 systems I'd need a 2nd receiver, which would bring the cost close to 1k. And it uses the 2.4 GHz band, so even though Audioengibe claims it won't interfere with wifi, I have my doubts.

Ultimately, if there is no software than can stream hi-res to a PS3, I'll probably go the music server route. Any advice is much appreciated.

[skunark]

Perhaps...
--Used Mac Mini via USB to XDA-1 (or m2tech usb2spdif if the XDA-1 USB port doesn't support 24/192)
--Oppo Digital BDP-103 with HDD to Denon  (and/or XDA-1).   
No streaming and the macbook pro doesn't have to be in the picture as you can control both with iPhone apps.  You can set up the mac mini with a uPNP server for the Oppo digital if you don't want to connect a HDD.     
Keep the ATV/AE in the mix as some might find these a bit difficult to use.

Also don't rule out a used Bryston BDP-1, Olive, Naim Uniti/NDX as sources and all have iPhone apps.

[Thunder240]

Perhaps...
--Used Mac Mini via USB to XDA-1 (or m2tech usb2spdif if the XDA-1 USB port doesn't support 24/192)
--Oppo Digital BDP-103 with HDD to Denon  (and/or XDA-1).   
No streaming and the macbook pro doesn't have to be in the picture as you can control both with iPhone apps.  You can set up the mac mini with a uPNP server for the Oppo digital if you don't want to connect a HDD.     
Keep the ATV/AE in the mix as some might find these a bit difficult to use.

Also don't rule out a used Bryston BDP-1, Olive, Naim Uniti/NDX as sources and all have iPhone apps.

Skunark, thanks for these suggestions! It's clear to me now that I have several options. (I also just found a Stereophile review of the Squeezebox Touch, which sounds promising, although I'd have to get two of them if I didn't want to physically move the touch back and forth between the two systems everytime I switch rooms. I am also looking into whether Twonky Server for Mac software, which interfaces cleanly with the PC3 over a network, supports streaming hi-res audio formats.) I guess now the questions are which of these solutions is the most elegant, which are the cheapest, and how uch am I willing to pay for elegance?

It's clear to me that SOME new hardware will be necessary, whether it is a new [used] computer that is dedicated to storing music and wires into the Emotiva DAC, a new PS3 to replace the Sony BP, or a more specialized device such as the sources you mentioned above or the Squeezebox.

Do you or do others have any experience that might shed some light on the ease of use / simplicity / reliability etc of any of these solutions?

[skunark]

I think the Bryston BDP, which I have, makes a strong case for simplicity as it's just the BDP, HDD and a smartphone app connected to a 24/192 DAC.   You can copy files from your computer to the BDP over a network share, but without any dependancies to another computer or NAS running.     

The Naim Uniti series offers better integrated with both a uPNP server and App, but it's streaming music which now has a dependency on the network and compute.  I'm hoping that if they release a Uniti 3 in a few years it will allow a HDD to be attached, then it would be one of the easiest solutions out there with the built-in cd player, fm tuner, internet radio, integrated amp and all can be controlled with a smartphone app.   I'm interested in the Uniti 2 for the office/den mostly so i can add a CD player and FM Tuner in a small package, I would still plan to have the Apple TV in the mix though.

I think the Oppo Digital BDP-103/105 seems to be a contender here as well, but I have the Oppo BDP-95 and find it terribly slow with a poor UI, not unlike my TV uPNP features.  Hopefully Oppo addressed this on the new version.   I'm not a fan on how the PS3 organizes music files, so I really never gave it an honest chance for playback, not even sure if it play hi-rez files.

There are lots of options for sure, so hopefully others can chime in.

[this_is_vv]

Sorry to play spoiler here....

I bought a 25$ PC from ebay ...installed following MPD on USB stick on it...
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=81984

here is one thread i made...you can buy one more router and stream music wireless to the computer...

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/215731-pc-music-transport-25-a.html

then i have following hard drive ....it has CIFS protocol inbuilt in it...it has all the music HD,flac etc....

http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Cloud-Storage-Share-Photos/dp/B00429N16A/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

and then i have iphone,ipad,android app that can search for song

dont know why people want to spend 1K on music transport...

[skunark]

It's not a spoiler, the Bryston BDP-1 also uses a Debain based linux distro with MPD,  but with a proper linear power supply, and modified sound card with an optimized AES/EBU output.   It was designed to have the files locally and clearly not in the same market as the network players.    Naim, as a network player, is pretty focused on the all-in-one solution, so there's more value there than just being a network player.

I also have a 2nd version of the Raspberry PI doing the same thing as your puppy on a stick, and another one running XBMC, but keep in mind you also have to have a USB DAC that supports 24/192 and be comfortable enough with Linux to set it up.     One could even add a linear power supply, check to make sure it provides a bit-perfect playback, configured the OS for low latency, etc..

Can you link the puppy on a  stick? Will it actually do 24/192 hires without downsampling? 

Along with puppy there's also VortexBox, VoyagerMPD to consider as well, assuming the that's a direction of interest for the OP.    You really just need any old computer, but something fanless is probably highly desirable.

[Thunder240]

Well, I tried using the PS3 to play 24 bit ALAC, FLAC, WAV and AIFF files with several different sample rates off of a thumb drive, and sure enough, all gave me a "file type not supported" error! Sony, what gives? The thing can play Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD audio tracks off of movies bit bit depths / sample rates up to 24/192. How much harder would it have been to add support for standalone audio file playback at this resolution? I'm really disappointed.

Anyhow, onward. This_is_vv, thanks for chiming in. I was/am definitely considering the option of using a computer transport, and am encouraged to hear just how cheap it is. Even though I said I'd consider dropping up to 1k on additional hardware, obviously less is better. But like skunark mentioned, I'd need to pick out my computers with care since I wouldn't want to add a lot of extra fan noise in the listening environment. Also, ease of use is an important consideration, and the sense I get is that a standalone network streaming device with DNLA support and an iPhone ap gives me the simplest interface. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Finally, I'd rather connect the transports to my DACs with TOSLINK than with USB, so unless I get Mac Mini with mini-optical out, I'd need to factor in the cost of sound cards. This is NOT to say that I'm ruling out computer transports. The paper that one of your links references was a very interesting (and encouraging) read. Just saying there are some other considerations. Let me ask, how is MPD from an ease-of-use standpoint?

Regarding the standalone streaming devices, W4S MS-2, Bruston BDP, and Naim Unitil all look awesome but they'd bust my budget I'm afraid. The Oppo is a real option, however. I also discovered the Yamaha CD-N500, the Denon DNP-720AE, and the Logitech Squeezebox Touch which I mentioned in an earlier post. Of these, it appears that only the Yamaha and Oppo support 192/24 (the others max out at 96/24). The Denon is the least expensive unit at 300 per unit on Crutchfield (I'd need to get two of them). The best prices I found for the Yamaha and Oppo were 455 and 499 respectively on Amazon (and again, I'd need 2). All apparently could stream from my Mac using JRiver, though as my HD library increases in size, I'm sure I'd eventually want to get a NAS, so that's an important feature to look for.

I think I'm going to try to demo a few of these models at Best Buy or another box store just to get a feel for the interface. In the mean time, please tell me more about your experiences with computer transports. Skunark, you mentioned several Raspberry, XNBC, puppy, and Vortexbox. I'd be willing to put up with the pain of configuring two Linux based computer transports if it meant that once properly configured, I could just let them be and interact with them only through simple Mac or iPhone aps. Do any of the above meet that description, and do they support 192/24?

[toddbagwell]

Well, I tried using the PS3 to play 24 bit ALAC, FLAC, WAV and AIFF files with several different sample rates off of a thumb drive, and sure enough, all gave me a "file type not supported" error! Sony, what gives?

There are some system settings for audio, did you go in and check that there were checks next to each file type you want to play? If I recall correctly, not everything is setup to playback hi-rez or other file types [i.e. 88.2 kHz etc]

hope this helps.

[Thunder240]

There are some system settings for audio, did you go in and check that there were checks next to each file type you want to play? If I recall correctly, not everything is setup to playback hi-rez or other file types [i.e. 88.2 kHz etc]

hope this helps.

Sad to say, yes, my PS3 audio system settings have all bitdepths and sample rates enabled. I did some snooping around dedicated PS3 forums, and several others have reported similar issues. As hard as it is to believe, Sony really hasn't enabled playback of hi-res standalone audiofiles. Sony, if you're listening, please fix this!

[Phil A]

The Logitech Squeezebox Touch has been discontinued.  I still have one, although at the moment it is not being used.  It does have a very nice interface.

[avta]

A Squeezebox Touch would solve your problems but as mentioned has been discontinued and the ones available on the web are quite expensive. I would be inclined to avoid that option. Have you looked into the Sonos system? ( www.sonos.com ) I have not used or heard one but I've read good things about it.

[Phil A]

There's always these too - but by the time you do Windows you're basically not far from the $800 price point of the MS-2   http://xi3.com/buy_now.php

[Phil A]

There's always this too - http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/MARNA7004/Marantz-NA7004-Network-Audio-Player/1.html

[jarcher]

The Squeezebox Touch with a third party app from Triode can supposedly output 24/192.  Frequently these sell used with upgraded power supplies right here on AC trader for very reasonable money.  That's what I would buy if I want the best bang for the buck.  Along with the free squeezebox app for your phone or tablet, this is the height of convenience & very affordable.

Otherwise, if you really feel you need the capability of doing up to 24/192 rez and want to do so at reasonable cost,  I don't know how you can avoid not using some kind of PC. I'm sure the Bryston BDP's, Olive, Naim, etc are all nice, but pretty serious money.

For me I'd look at getting one or more (depending on how many you need) used Mac Mini's.  There's a thread already claiming that the 2009 and older ones "sound" better than the 2010+ ones.  I'm skeptical, but what I will say is that the pre-2010 are a lot cheaper and you can pick one up for $200 or so on ebay or elsewhere.  Use itunes, get a license for Pure Music (which is good for an unlimited # of machines) & run it in "memory" play.

You can use optical out, but I would suggest eventually either going to a USB / SPDIF convertor (asynchronous / 24/192 capable) or else eventually putting the money towards a DAC that has that capability.  A decent USB / SPDIF convertor sounds better in my experience than the TOSLINK optical out on the Mac Mini.  But since you can be out hundreds of dollars between the convertor + decent cables, it might make more sense to put that into a better DAC when the time comes to upgrade the DAC.

The nice thing w/ macs + itunes is that you can use the free Remote app on an iphone / ipod / ipad & remotely access your itunes librar(ies) on your mac mini(s).  Once you've had the convenience of that, you won't want to go back.

[neekomax]

I recently bought a brand new Mac Mini for my music server - $650 all in- and I use Jriver for Mac, which I love. Great DSP, sounds good, supports all types of files and formats, way better than Amarra or Pure Music, which I've also tried.

Plus, you get an awesome little computer!

JRiver for Mac is in Beta, so it's basically free right now. The license will probably be around $50.

[neekomax]

Oh, and I use optical out into my 24/96 capable DAC/processor. Sounds good.