Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner

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xsb7244

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Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« on: 3 Mar 2013, 07:23 pm »
I read what you wrote in the All Solid State circle and also offering Montana residents a chance to try your power conditioner.  You have
convinced me with your passion, faith, and belief.  Stereo can be a very subjective experience.  your power conditioner may or may not be
a positive thing because it is so subjective.  For example, I have a DBX 3BX.  Some people do not like it.  I like it.  It makes a difference for me.
We need a photo exterior and interior of your power conditioner.  Also what will it cost to buy the power conditioner?  I am interested  in the
long story of your power conditioner, the history of it.  What made you decide to build one?

audiogoober

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #1 on: 3 Mar 2013, 07:40 pm »
I read what you wrote in the All Solid State circle and also offering Montana residents a chance to try your power conditioner.  You have
convinced me with your passion, faith, and belief.  Stereo can be a very subjective experience.  your power conditioner may or may not be
a positive thing because it is so subjective.  For example, I have a DBX 3BX.  Some people do not like it.  I like it.  It makes a difference for me.
We need a photo exterior and interior of your power conditioner.  Also what will it cost to buy the power conditioner?  I am interested  in the
long story of your power conditioner, the history of it.  What made you decide to build one?

Fantastic Inquiry Above. I've tried 5 or 6 expensive power conditioners over the years and do not care for them in my home or anywhere else for that matter. I believe that short dedicated lines in close proximity to the circuit panel is a much better solution than any power conditioner could ever provide. But this is subjective and just my personal opinion.

wisnon

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Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #2 on: 3 Mar 2013, 07:51 pm »
I agree.
D. o. Smiles seems to know his stuff for sure.

xsb7244

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Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #3 on: 3 Mar 2013, 08:23 pm »
Anybody that has used this power conditioner please comment.  Let your voice be heard.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #4 on: 4 Mar 2013, 07:39 am »
Right now price is being adjusted for retail. I specifically size CMC's for the application, but the cost climbs some if you have 20 devices as opposed to a more normal 8 or something (more sockets, more CMC's, more big copper bus bar). If you want Bybee purifiers, or extra fancy ac sockets (I don't bother personally) the price increases for the cost of the parts. But the only way to really hike the price is Bybees.

I know what I need to know. There are a lot of guys on here that have a lot more knowledge than I do, but never bother to try out or believe in power conditioning. The fellow that got me started doesn't even use one.  :scratch:  What I think is the most important is to get the clear idea of how beneficial the right conditioner really can be. More than anything I just want people to understand the quality of the sound for fatigue levels seems subtle, but after a couple of weeks you'll notice that the music seems like someone sucked the worth out of it. You'll gain a new understanding of what good sound is, as opposed to good features of sound. You may find yourself listening a lot more.

It is hard to understand how in an A B test, double blind, etc, you can't always tell, but after the long exposure you'll always know. It reminds me of my father and earth quakes. It was in some big ones in Alaska, and now he always knows when one happens even though no one else does until the news paper reports it. Familiarity is a bit bigger than our vastly low level intellect trying to understand the world. Basically quality isn't always specific to volume nor perceived frequency. It sounds like whack snake oil till you experience how much of a difference is made.

Part of me wants to stop talking about what is inside of it, because I'd like to sell some more. But I've never made a regular business out of it, and I suppose those that want to buy a unit will, and those that want to make one will. You might even laugh at it or think it won't work, but until you try it for a few weeks (and listen to my points on implementation) you won't ever truly know.

I have heard a lot of rejection towards the use of 'coils' but as I've talked about in other posts, it is more about the size of it. Furthermore the fundamental flaw in people's understanding is that only parts of the stereo that are vital in nature should have more conditioning. That isn't true for many things. As I've talked about some before, you want the highest value CMC you can get on things like turntable motor adapter/psu's. Why? Because they generate noise that a CMC helps to eliminate because of its parallel canceling design. But you know what, I always like to offer a true bypass for all CMC's. It lowers the filtration, sure, but the benefits are still totally worth it. When you do this the only complaints you are going to have left over are flaws getting exposed in your components, because the rest of the stuff is seen as nothing more than copper wire to your components.

It is really so simple that people refuse to believe it will do anything, that it has any value. Here is the inside of my personal unit. Theres a few very important things to note about how it is wired up (commonly overlooked). I don't use solen capacitors anymore just for upping the safety to an entirely unnecessary level, but for the DIY guy it save a few bucks. Also when someone wants fancy wire on the inside it looks overly clean compared to my personal one (you get more detail). Plus the company I was getting these great boxes from with the isolated ground plate for mounting everything too switched to pre-cut punch out hole design so I'll be switching to a different case. If I lost all my stereo somehow I wouldn't even bother rebuilding anything without having one of these first, or maybe battery powered (but I don't think it is as fun to listen to except as more background/dancing)



I'm sure some will poke fun at it or something, but you just don't know till you try it. Frankly people are largely not even use to conceptually understanding what it can offer in quality of sound as opposed to correction of audible issues.

My friend Craig who runs Bel Canto DAC 3, CD player, and Bryston amplifier, last time I checked, after a couple of years I asked him how it was going, " I think of you often as I’m listening…..of course I’m still using the conditioner, it’s my best component by far and I tell everyone that but I’m not sure they believe me.  I try to get people to demo my unit but there seems to be a fear that they will need to spend even more money on their system.  So, the unit has never moved from its original location." The funny part is he told me to bill him for my prototype and build another one for myself, while my roommate was telling me to get it back because we were not interested in listening to music without it  :lol: . (at the time I was using Peter Daniel's DAC, which is world class, but wasn't good enough for my roommate without the power conditioner at that point)

« Last Edit: 3 May 2013, 09:54 pm by Destroyer of Smiles. »

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #5 on: 4 Mar 2013, 08:05 am »
Oh and the MP3 test. This still blows me away. This fellow with a bit different tastes than audiophiles was curious so I demoed it at his place. He had an MP3 of Jethro Tull on a CD. We had his equipment plugged into the conditioner. The track sounded fine, even a bit of foot tapping was going on, and it was turned up a lot, like neighbors don't like it loud. But it was just fine, fun even, to listen too. Sure it wasn't a sonic master piece after the compression but....

When we plugged everything back into the wall the difference wasn't subtle. It was so strong I stepped backwards! I wanted it to be turned off immediately. We both pretended it wasn't grating our ears like sand paper punching our ears for as long as we could, looked at each other, and turned it off. The volume was at the same position. Hes into Bose 901 speakers, and surround-sound, but oddly enough has a bunch of reel to reel? He is getting one because it instantly renewed his interest in listening to music. Prior to that a few years earlier he had moved into his current house and not even hooked up the stereo for a few months. He told me he knew on the first track that what he wanted in music was there again, what he needed to want to listen. There wasn't any way for him to describe it other than that. This was of course after lots of A B testing that was actually pretty apparent (sometimes it isn't as easy to tell), as he wanted to be as skeptical as possible knowing he could trick himself. Instead of tricking himself he just came to admit it, got to have one!

I know it sounds way too religious and dogmatic, but I swear its just noise attenuation. I don't have priests bless them or anything, but I'm sure a deal could be made if you were to make donation to the Church.

audiogoober

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #6 on: 4 Mar 2013, 10:00 pm »
This sounds very interesting....sending PM now.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #7 on: 5 Mar 2013, 02:29 am »
It appears my conditioner is going to start a tour! I suppose depending on how much the first two stops appreciate it, will determine the length of the tour.

drummermitchell

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #8 on: 5 Mar 2013, 04:04 am »
To bad the tour didn't go up to Canada as I would like to compare to my Torus.
If she does more for the music than my Torus for sure I'd buy one at least for my components or amp side of things.
Wonder if it would starve the  28SSt's.
Anyway I'd be very interested,hopefully Alberta bound.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #9 on: 5 Mar 2013, 04:14 am »
Starve? I've been discussing building units that can accept multiple inputs from multiple AC dedicated lines, with another member on here. I'd forgo the in-line filtration (CMC's) and just use the parallel filtration; likely separate units (smaller) if you have dedicated lines for each amplifier. I'm surprised you don't prefer no filtration as is now, on your amplifiers; especially over a transformer unit.

I just looked up how much draw those things can take. Wow. I'm sure you got three lines going to your setup. Anyway the demo unit would only work for your source side, in this case Mitchell.

I'll have to look into shipping to Canada.

Perhaps I should also make it clear, so far I've just been building on order, and to specific needs. I don't see the point in trying to offer something that has too many compromises.

drummermitchell

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #10 on: 5 Mar 2013, 04:34 am »
I use two dedicated 240v lines,one each for the three main amps 28s and a 7bsst(on a 60a balanced Torus)
The other is a 20a balanced Torus feeding one 4bsst and six components and a projector.
I do have a dedicated 20a line up front for my sub.

Destroyer,do your units protect components from over voltage,spikes ect,reason I ask I had two F-113s go on me that weren't hooked up to the Torus.
The other two that were connected to the Torus plus the rest of the gear was fine.
Protection is very important for me and of course what the torus does or perhaps what yours will do for the music.
If you could ship up to Canada that would be excellent.
I've had 34lbs preamp from California shipped here and I believe it was around 170.00 course they go buy the size of the box.
Anyway appreciate it,thx.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #11 on: 5 Mar 2013, 04:54 am »
I have not bothered with protection circuits. My stance has been pure and simple units. For those that want added protection, at this time, I recommend a separate unit and point out it is user choice for any loss of quality experienced with one.

Your setup eliminates multiple issues. For example all the small components are the ones likely to generate any noise within the power distribution of your own system. The amplifiers are isolated from that, but I suspect transformers may actually keep noise in circulation. In other words you isolate your components from the wall but not each other. Thats something perhaps someone with a more sophisticated understanding of electronics could inform us about. The real understanding I have is just the dislike for transformers.

Given your tastes, most of your stuff probably puts out less noise than many available audio components. However my shock is in the use of transformers (Torus units). Do you not find the dynamics in everything to not be a little low? The impact being a little soft? In a way do you find yourself compensating with volume?

xsb7244

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Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #12 on: 5 Mar 2013, 06:30 pm »
For protection, you need a surge protector.  Select Brick Wall, Zero Surge, Surge X.  You want state of the art, select P.I. audio group
BUSS-Stop.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #13 on: 5 Mar 2013, 07:42 pm »
For protection, you need a surge protector.  Select Brick Wall, Zero Surge, Surge X.  You want state of the art, select P.I. audio group
BUSS-Stop.

I don't need to reinvent the wheel for surge protection, just yet. Perhaps if I find a product/s and configuration I think can retain the simple purity I will begin integration upon request.

It probably makes more sense to just have an SM surge protector put in at your breakers.

xsb7244

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Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #14 on: 5 Mar 2013, 07:53 pm »
It is safe to say that we all have one thing in common and that is a love of Hi Fi.  This is a great hobby.  For the benefit of others thanks go to the
diy guys who allow their designs to be used.  Thanks go to the guys who sell to the non diy guys like me.  Having said all that let us not take for
granted the design of a product.  It took Vic of Trans-Fi Audio 6 years to develop the Salvation Turntable.  Thank you Destroyer of Smiles for
sharing your power conditioner.  I am sure it was a labor of love, how long did it take to develop, test, and finalize your design?

drummermitchell

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #15 on: 5 Mar 2013, 08:07 pm »
I actually had to turn the vol down when I first installed the Torus(s)I find them very authoritative on the bottom end.
More dynamics at least compared to shunyata,everything opened up big time with authority.
Before these I had all shunyatas on all dedicated lines(Hydra 6 for components)and 4 hydra 2's for 5 amps.
Huge difference with Torus(s)closer to a live event than with the latter.
As was mentioned we all love audio and the more we can squeeze out of it the better.
Still very much interested in auditions though as we all are looking for MORE ways to improve our sound :thumb:.

cheap-Jack

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Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #16 on: 5 Mar 2013, 08:11 pm »
Hi.

 I've tried 5 or 6 expensive power conditioners over the years and do not care for them in my home or anywhere else for that matter. I believe that short dedicated lines in close proximity to the circuit panel is a much better solution than any power conditioner could ever provide. But this is subjective and just my personal opinion.

YES, this is exactly what I've installed years back. Shortest possible dedicated powelines direct from the house power panel. One for 120V & one for 240VAC exclusively for my audio rig via 2 dedicated wall outlets.
From the 120V dedicated outlet, 2 dedicated powerlines, one exclusively for analogue gear, e.g. my amps. Another exclusively for digital gear, eg. my DVD-audio & Blu-ray audio players. The 240VAC dedicated wall outlet is for my 240V operated TT & tape deck.

Each of these 3 dedicated powerlines off the dedicated wall outlets is installed with an inline RFI powerline filter (made in England). Each comes with EMI/RFI insertion loss up to 52dB at 32MHz.

So shortest dedicated powerlines plus RFI inline filter should do a much better job than whatever exotic
priced conditioners & cost much much LESSSSS money.

A wise cheap jack solution for those like me who don't want to drop a bundle to finance those conditioners vendors. I want to control the performance of my powerlines effectively functionally & moneywise.

c-J

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #17 on: 5 Mar 2013, 08:27 pm »
It is safe to say that we all have one thing in common and that is a love of Hi Fi.  This is a great hobby.  For the benefit of others thanks go to the
diy guys who allow their designs to be used.  Thanks go to the guys who sell to the non diy guys like me.  Having said all that let us not take for
granted the design of a product.  It took Vic of Trans-Fi Audio 6 years to develop the Salvation Turntable.  Thank you Destroyer of Smiles for
sharing your power conditioner.  I am sure it was a labor of love, how long did it take to develop, test, and finalize your design?

Development was fairly quick because as some members here know, it really isn't the newest idea on the block; it is literally just the most under-used, never taken seriously. Its actually similar to small conditioning like the Felix, but offers lot more attenuation of noise (we are talking cases of 40db extra depending on the frequency). My original prototype was pretty controversial on this forum, and I was the midst of learning a lot more about what I had made. But the results were so spectacular that any arguing about it became irrelevant. However it was around a year or more before I realized where the parallel filtration was connected mattered, despite what theory seems to indicate. I'm always looking to improve the quality of the parts used as well. My prototype used surplus capacitors, not AC surge suppression X rated from Vishay. I'm looking at an extremely high amperage inductor for RF frequency at the input right now; the question being if it can avoid the pitfalls of a ferrite bead (or if it'll work at all).

My approach is not similar to the Felix though. The Felix was primarily designed just to attach to digital source pieces, and some smaller components. That is fine but I argue that every piece should have filtration to help the sharing of noise generated in your own system as well as you can benefit components too big or sensitive for CMC's used in the Felix. In fact I've been thinking about making units for recording and mastering studios that primarily do just that, get rid of noise from the cheap power supply devices, attenuate noise from everything, but avoid the pitfalls of criticism that all the high-end muckity mucks claim of every type of power conditioning. The word "coil" is a four letter word among them - hence why I think offering 'coiless' operation for key pieces, and only apply them to things like AC-DC adapters, as the best approach for the sensitivity of the components.

What I am hoping for is a very good response from members that are signed up to audition my unit that is going to take a little tour. I have not made that many, but every audition begins the birth of a new one. Wait that isn't true, whenever I take it to a live venue for music the musicians are always too poor! They love it though. The amount of headroom created for guitar and bass players is pretty outstanding even on a little bit higher end tube based guitar amplifiers. The music in general is so much more real, like listening to a live unamplified quality acoustic guitar happens to be; reduced noise allows stringed instruments to sound like they are not computer generated. The other trouble is musicians specifically look for types of sounds, not the quality of them. They are less trained than audiophile in that concept! I had a sound guy tell me that he was using "way less compression on the guitar" for the PA system - compression in this case is to cut off unnecessary frequencies, or noise, from the spectrum of sound picked up by the microphone for the guitar amplifier, not to compress to the actual guitar itself. This is an on going personal vendetta against the fact that I've only heard one truly good PA setup where I live; everything else just makes the bands sound like there is some sort of mud wall between you and them.

If anyone wants the silly simple schematic, I can e-mail it to them.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #18 on: 5 Mar 2013, 08:37 pm »
I actually had to turn the vol down when I first installed the Torus(s)I find them very authoritative on the bottom end.
More dynamics at least compared to shunyata,everything opened up big time with authority.
Before these I had all shunyatas on all dedicated lines(Hydra 6 for components)and 4 hydra 2's for 5 amps.
Huge difference with Torus(s)closer to a live event than with the latter.
As was mentioned we all love audio and the more we can squeeze out of it the better.
Still very much interested in auditions though as we all are looking for MORE ways to improve our sound :thumb:.

Interesting. Perhaps the shift in impedance from using isolation transformers was a determining factor. You do also primarily run Class A though, that probably has a current source operation so the demand for dynamic power shifting is nill.

Are you a long distance from the power station?

CJ you make me want to run my own powerlines, but I don't think my property management company would appreciation some Romex snaking its way to my apartment on the shortest path. Oh but I promise a lack of exotic in my units; especially for the price since you can pay a lot more for a lot less. But I'll point out you'd be surprised how much of a difference attenuating frequencies much lower than the RF range matters when your listening.

Salis Audio

Re: Destroyer of Smiles personal power conditioner
« Reply #19 on: 5 Mar 2013, 08:51 pm »
These make me curious. Protect the whole house?

http://www.mcgsurge.com/products/acmodels.htm

 

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