Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers

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Fmaxwell

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Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« on: 31 Jan 2013, 07:34 am »
Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers

This is a repository of information about the the drivers used in VMPS, both as original parts and as replacements.  This is vital information for those who wish to repair and refurbish their VMPS speakers, so I ask that anyone with information to please post it here. 

I am seeding it with some information.  If you have information, please share it and use the format shown in the example below:

Driver: Morel CAT 308 1-1/8" Soft Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 277-082
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R
Replacement or Original Driver: Replacement
Certainty: 95%
Notes:  This is is the model that Morel identifies as a replacement for the MDT-30.

Replace the items shown in maroon with the information for the driver you are identifying.

Please note that this thread is not a place to ask questions or post items for sale. 

Notes: 
  • Even if a driver was used in a particular VMPS model, it does not mean that all instances of that model used that driver.
    • VMPS (Brian) made changes and improvements, often incorporating different drivers through the lifetime of a particular speaker.
    • Some drivers were sold as optional upgrades in some models.
  • Where the VMPS model is not shown, it is known that Brian Cheney ordered the driver, but there is not a determination of where it was used
  • "Certainty" is somewhat subjective and a percentage.  If you are truly sure, and can see the model number on the driver, then it's 100%.  "Kind of looks like it" is below 50%.  Since people will make purchase decisions based on this information, try to give a fair estimate.

Woofers and Subwoofers:

Driver: Dayton Audio DCS305-4 12" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 295-204
Used in VMPS Models:
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty:
Notes: 

Driver: Dayton Audio DCS385-4 15" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 295-206
Used in VMPS Models:
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty:
Notes: 

Driver: Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 295-468
Used in VMPS Models:
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty:
Notes: 

Driver: Eminence LAB 15 15" Pro Subwoofer
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 290-575
Used in VMPS Models: Very Solid Sub VSS
Replacement or Original Driver: Original
Certainty: 60%
Notes: 

Driver: Goldwood GW-15PC-8 15" Heavy Duty Woofer 8 Ohm
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 290-338
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R
Replacement or Original Driver: Replacement
Certainty: 99%
Notes:  Although specified and supplied by Brian Cheney, with passive radiators tuned by Brian for these woofers, I find that the extreme low bass is overpowering.  The original drivers performed much better.
            Further tuning of the passive subwoofer might be able to tame these drivers.

Midranges

Awaiting information

Tweeters and Supertweeters

Driver: Aurum Cantus G2Si Ribbon Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 276-400
Used in VMPS Models:
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty:
Notes: 

Driver: Beston RT002A Ribbon Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 277-112
Used in VMPS Models:
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty:
Notes: 

Driver: Morel MDT-30 1-1/8" Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Discontinued
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R
Replacement or Original Driver:
Certainty: 100%
Notes: 

Driver: Morel CAT 308 1-1/8" Soft Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express / 277-082
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R
Replacement or Original Driver: Replacement
Certainty: 95%
Notes:  This is is the model that Morel identifies as a replacement for the MDT-30.

Driver: JVC HSW1101-01A Ribbon Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Discontinued
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R
Replacement or Original Driver: Original
Certainty: 75%
Notes:  Identified by detailed photo.  Have not verified model number.  No JVC ribbons still in production and no replacement ribbons identified.

Driver: Morel MDT-101 Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Discontinued
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower II
Replacement or Original Driver: Original
Certainty: 80%
Notes:

Driver: Focal T90K Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Discontinued
Used in VMPS Models: 626SE
Replacement or Original Driver: Original
Certainty: 100%
Notes:

Driver: Morel MDT-29 1-1/8" Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express MDT-29 / Madisound MDT-29
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R and Tower ii
Replacement or Original Driver: Original in owner's circa 1986 Supertower/R and Tower ii
Certainty: 100%
Notes: 8 ohm driver.

Driver: Focal T120 Fiberglass inverted dome
Source/Part Number: Discontinued
Used in VMPS Models: Separate upgrade for: Mini Tower IIa, Tower II, Supertower/R, Supertower IIa/R...standard on some SE versions
Replacement or Original Driver: Original
Certainty: 100%
Notes: Not to be confused with yellow Focal inverted domes employed later including T120K (Kevlar) and T90 models (smaller magnets).

« Last Edit: 2 Sep 2013, 08:05 am by Fmaxwell »

ST86

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #1 on: 7 Feb 2013, 05:14 pm »
TWEETERS

Driver: Morel MDT-29 1-1/8" Dome Tweeter
Source/Part Number: Parts Express MDT-29 / Madisound MDT-29
Used in VMPS Models: Super Tower/R and Tower ii
Replacement or Original Driver: Original in my circa 1986 Supertower/R and Tower ii
Certainty: 100%
Notes: 8 ohm driver.

John Casler

Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #2 on: 14 Feb 2013, 08:09 pm »
You can list the Aurum Cantus G2si as a replacement for the FST - 100%

You can list the Beston  RT002A as the tweeters used in the RM-50 tweeter array "only" - 95%

ST86

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #3 on: 20 Mar 2013, 11:55 pm »
WOOFER

Driver: Misco Speaker Company LC12W-8A 12" woofer 8 ohm
Source/Part Number: Misco Speaker Company/LC12W-8A
Used in VMPS Models: Supertower/R
Replacement or Original Driver: Replacement
Certainty: 100%
Notes:  "MISCO LC12W-8A" on sticker on back of magnet.
Purchased early 2012 as replacement/upgrade for Supertower 12" midbass driver.
Company webpage for this driver: http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/LC12W-8A




hifi111

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #4 on: 10 Apr 2013, 07:01 am »
Are the 10" mega woofers available for the RM 40's in case they are needed years from now?

Thanks
Thomas

mgg

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jun 2013, 02:19 pm »
The 6.5 inch Mega Woofers used in the RM30 Series II are:

Driver: Misco Speaker Company LLC62W-8A 6.5 inch woofer, ferrite magnet, 45 Watts, Gray carbon cone with natural rubber surround.
Source: Misco Speaker Company LLC62W-8A
Used in VMPS Model: RM30 Series II and others.
Certainty: 100%
Notes: LLC62W-8A on sticker on back of magnet.
Speakers Purchased Used: June 5, 2013. I am the third owner and am told they are 6 years old. Originally purchased as the C series and updated to the Series II.
Company Webpage for this driver: http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/LLC62W-8A

John Casler

Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jun 2013, 11:01 pm »
Chances are you will not be able to purchase small quantities of drivers from Misco.  I have spoken with them and usually it is a quantity production run limit. :?

Distorted

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #7 on: 1 Jul 2013, 08:13 pm »
I traded emails with Misco re a replacement or repair for a OC 10W-A mid for a circa 2003 RM40, and was told that was a special order item, and like John, was informed that only commercial sized orders would be considered.

Mine has a buzz. Are there any informed opinions if a local (San Antonio) speaker repair company would be up to the job of repair?

Joe Guyton

7x57

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #8 on: 18 Feb 2014, 12:44 am »
Bohlender-Graebener midrange panels might not be the same as VMPS Neopanels, but they are probably about the best you can do if you can't locate any Neopanels.

I saw in Parts Express that Visaton of Germany makes a 8" woofer that seems to have specifications that would allow it to work in the RM-1 as a replacement for the standard woofers. The cost is reasonable. Dayton Audio makes an 8" model that should be a decent replacement for the RM-1 Megabass woofer for around $60.

A used pair of working speakers go for a lot more money than a used pair of broken speakers. There are some good drivers out there besides the VMPS sourced units. The main reason for bad performance in other speakers I bought in the past were the incredibly cheap components. I had one offbrand speaker that developed a buzz in the midrange. When I opened it up to check, I found it was crossed over with a single series electrolytic capacitor and the speaker lead and capacitor lead were connected together with a staple driven into the particle board where the two leads met. Talk about cheap. But cheap is what you often find in even well know brands from the 70's, when I started in audio.

Somebody made all the drivers for VMPS. Just because VMPS went out of business does not mean VMPS suppliers went out of business. In a loudspeaker like Ohm, which makes the unique Walsh driver themselves, then if Ohm went out of business you would be out of luck as far as factory replacements.

Bohlender-Graebener will probably keep improving their ribbon panels, because it's a competitive marketplace, and if not, somebody else will step in. With VMPS gone, there is a void in affordable neopanel speakers that somebody else is bound to eventually fill. 

mjosef

Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #9 on: 18 Feb 2014, 01:08 am »
RM1 replacement 8" carbon fiber woofers are available from MCM.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-1551-/55-1551
These are the ones Brian sent me a few years ago as replacement for two blown drivers. The stamped #s matched exactly on the old and new.

However I found the identical cone with a die cast aluminum frame of which I bought six pieces. I biamp, with a Crown XTi 1002 powering the bass drivers.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-3550-/55-3550


John Casler

Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #10 on: 18 Feb 2014, 01:44 am »
I traded emails with Misco re a replacement or repair for a OC 10W-A mid for a circa 2003 RM40, and was told that was a special order item, and like John, was informed that only commercial sized orders would be considered.

Mine has a buzz. Are there any informed opinions if a local (San Antonio) speaker repair company would be up to the job of repair?

Joe Guyton

Just received 5 of the 10" woofers for the RM40, 3 low bass and 2 midbass, But. .one was damaged in shipping (low bass), I have one pair sold and the rest is available.  These were manufactured using the WCF cone stock Brian sent them before his passing.

No more will be made, as that cone stock is no longer available.

Looks like I will have one single LOW BASS and one single MID BASS left.


John Casler

Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #11 on: 18 Feb 2014, 01:50 am »
Bohlender-Graebener midrange panels might not be the same as VMPS Neopanels, but they are probably about the best you can do if you can't locate any Neopanels.

The 8" BG panels will not work without totally reworking the XO and setting far different XO frequencies.

Quote


Somebody made all the drivers for VMPS. Just because VMPS went out of business does not mean VMPS suppliers went out of business. In a loudspeaker like Ohm, which makes the unique Walsh driver themselves, then if Ohm went out of business you would be out of luck as far as factory replacements.

Bohlender-Graebener will probably keep improving their ribbon panels, because it's a competitive marketplace, and if not, somebody else will step in. With VMPS gone, there is a void in affordable neopanel speakers that somebody else is bound to eventually fill.

The company that made the Neopanels went out of business long before VMPS did.  Brian purchased the last 5000 panels, and modded each one so the manufacturing defect was not a problem in most cases.

The BG10 has potential but is outrageously expensive, by comparison, and may not work as well, I don't know yet.

I might add, I still have a small supply of Neopanels I am selling for Brian's widow if VMPS'ers need them.

7x57

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #12 on: 18 Feb 2014, 06:13 pm »
mjosef, thanks for the heads up on the RM1 replacement woofers from MCM. However, it is 9.05" in diameter and will require the cutout to be enlarged. I'm a bit worried about the Xmax at only 1.5mm, but maybe that is the linear range and not the maximum allowed before damage occurs. The grille will only fit over an 8.75" diameter woofer without modification. There is also the problem of the two woofers hitting each other. The original woofer in my RM1 is a bit under 8.5" diameter. The slightly more expensive MCM woofer at $39.99 with woven graphite cone and cast frame is 8.75" diameter. The mounting hole would still need enlarging and might have to file the cast frame off a bit where the two woofers meet, or offset the mounting holes a bit when enlarged.

These are some of my picks from Parts Express for RM1 replacement woofers, the driver you will most likely need to replace due to rotted foam in originals. HiVi M8a and HiVi M8N as an upper and lower pair. They look similar and have a 33 Hz and 29 Hz resonance, so no need to due the putty thing to get some separation in resonance like the standard VMPS drivers. The gold aluminum/magnesium cones look good and they get great reviews at a terrific price point. $44.66 and $34.86 respectively and are 8-ohm, so I would have to do some crossover work as I have 4-ohm drivers wired in series. No big deal. Parts Express sells the exact same inductors as used in the RM1 woofer crossover. Total cost would be about $200 delivered for everything. Use the HiVi M8N in the lower position since it has the lower resonance, just as the standard VMPS woofers were positioned. The dimensions look good and probably will need no cutout enlargement like many other woofers will need. These woofers will look great with the grilles off if you prefer listening that way.

Yes, John, the BG panels will need MAJOR crossover work to get them to function properly in VMPS speakers, but the short ones for the RM1 are about what VMPS Neopanels go for, pricewise. Those who have several Neopanels in their VMPS speakers are looking at a HUGE replacement cost if they need to totally change over. I chose the RM1 speaker because I believe that simpler is better, and the lack of multiple midranges and tweeters made any future replacements less of a hassle.

Hopefully, the ruggedness of the Neopanel will prevent many owners from needing to replace them. If I owned the larger VMPS speakers with a row of several Neopanels making up the array, I would remove the defective panel and do the same in the other speaker, positioning the remaining panels for the least degradation of sound. I would then also have a spare panel for future need. A resistor in the place of the removed panel preserves the impedance match to the crossover network. I would do something like this before going to BG panels. An owner can also buy a pair of 626R speakers on the used market, have two spare Neopanels, and just do the BG panel mod to the 626R speakers and use them for less critical listening.

I don't know how many 626R speakers were sold, but it was probably a lot more than any of the most expensive ribbon speakers that VMPS made and a pair of used 626R speakers would set a person back far less than several BG panels. On the other hand, a 626R owner may find one of the expensive ribbon speakers with a blown panel or two, and get an upgrade speaker at a very low price from an owner that doesn't want repair hassles. I might consider that route if I am ever able to upgrade from my RM1 speakers. As it is, the RM1 speakers satisfy me now, and the gripey old woman that lives across the street feels the RM1 speakers are more than loud enough with more than adequate bass, as has been brought to my attention several times, even with the windows closed. My lone pair of Neopanels have survived so far.

Remember that Brian chose woven graphite and graphite filled polycone woofers for their stiffness and relative lightness compared to standard materials. The woofers however are not as "fast" as one would imagine due to the heavy putty placed on the voicecoil former end. This induces a mechanical rolloff of high frequencies at a lower frequency than would have occurred, while lowering the resonant frequency as well. It also allows a spreading of resonant frequency by putting different weights of putty on two otherwise identical woofers. Richard Vandersteen uses an electrical network connected to a single woofer to do the same thing. In Brian's design, you get double the cone surface area doing the same thing at about the same cost. The removal of the voicecoil cap and insertion of a phase plug also removes unwanted high frequencies transmitted through the voiecoil former even further. It you want to take it even further, then buy a microphone windsock made to fit a microphone about the same diameter as the phase plug. A fuzzy tennis ball can also work when you fit it over the end of the phase plug. The point I am getting at is that as far as woofers are concerned, you can easily buy and modify a number of commercial woofers from discounted sources for much less money than you get at a "dealer parts" price. When I replaced my foam surrounds with rubber surrounds on my strandard RM1 woofers, I slightly lowered the system resonance, slightly increased the HF rolloff, and extended useful bass to 25 Hz. No need for a subwoofer except for pipe organs, electronic synthesized music, and special sound effects, none of what I really care for.

Many years ago when I ordered exact replacements for Fisher midranges at $6 each, I discovered I could have bought almost exactly the same thing in a common Pioneer driver used across many brands for $2. That is the markup difference in price between "dealer parts" and warehouse supply sources. Don't let low prices of mass produced drivers fool you as some of them are very good. Brian knew how to get value priced woofers and mod them to where they performed like expensive custom designs from SEAS, Focal and the like. It seems he used rather expensive cone drivers in the early VMPS years then discovered that lower priced drivers such as the Neopanels could be modified and made to work for what he wanted. The Neopanels were too delicate for wide range auto applications, so he bought up remaining stock at what must have been firesale prices so he could afford to mod them while getting enough money through current sales to justify the large initial investment.

Conrad-Johnson used the same philosophy when starting out in tube preamps. They bought up huge stocks of computer tubes and other types not commonly used in audio gear but widely used in military gear. The Mullard M8080 is a MUCH better tube than the commercial RCA 6C4 tube as it was made especially for military field radios and has much less microphony, and it was the basis of the PV-14L and I dare you find anybody else who used that tube before in a preamp. Unknown to most people, Conrad and Johnson bought huge stocks of unwanted tubes at giveaway prices, that could be used for audio but were mainly unwanted as they did not have common applications in audio so the NOS supply had not been bought up. They picked the best and shoved the rest down the line. The 6DJ8 tube must be handpicked for audio, and about 75% will fail from the best production runs, but those that are left make great preamp linestage tubes. I bought eight Mullard M8080 tubes from an English tube Dealer, sent them to Andy Bowman of Vintage Tube Services for testing and pin descaling, and ALL of the tubes passed Andy's testing as they had very special military requirements when originally accepted into service, and STILL came out with spare tubes sets that were priced below the C-J dealer parts price for matched pairs. ALL the RCA 6C4 tubes I sent Andy failed testing due to microphonics. This is my experience with common NOS audio tubes bought on eBay, etc. Tubes sourced from Marshall, Fisher, McIntosh, etc. are often good as they were initially handpicked for audio, but the tubes TV repairmen stocked were the ones NOT accepted into audio service. This is where knowing how to buy good parts (as Brian surely learned over time) at cheap prices can give you an edge over your competitors or allow two audiophiles such as Conrad and Johnson to develop preamps from tubes that worked as well as any of the common preamp tubes that were hard and expensive to find in audio grade condition. Misco is not a "salon" brand that audiophiles look for in a cone speaker, so I suspect Brian got a much better price than if a woofer had been sourced from SEAS, Morel, Peerless, Focal, Dynaudio, etc. There is NOTHING about my standard RM1 woofers that screamed higher quality compared to other woofers except for the putty and phase plug and resonance spread between the upper and lower woofer. The phase plugs fell off because the double sided sticky tape finally let go, so I J-B welded them to the pole piece. Nothing "magical" about those rather cheap woofers at all, except for some minor design changes.
« Last Edit: 19 Feb 2014, 07:40 pm by 7x57 »

HowieEng

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I need 2 passive sub-woofers for my Tower II special Edition.
Does anyone know what I can use???

I want too get them ready for resale.
Howard Bandell
HowieBandell@aol.com

murf123

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Re: Original and Replacement Drivers for VMPS Speakers
« Reply #14 on: 7 May 2014, 11:19 pm »
Needed are replacement 5" mids for Tower ii's. Any help or suggestions are appreciated.
Also need a 12" mid bass rebuild or replacement.