Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore

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SlushPuppy

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #20 on: 31 May 2012, 12:57 am »
You may not be able to "cheat physics" but you can work within the resolution on the human ear and brain.

"Fooling the brain" is what this hobby is all about.

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #21 on: 31 May 2012, 01:04 am »
 
 To be fair about Ncore Buzz, it really is pretty brand new, the retail units aren't even available yet. and we're the first place to really spill over from diyaudio.
 
 I've actually brought it up on other forums and people are like, "oh yeah! I'm gonna try those too!" So just because we're the only people talking about it doesn't mean people aren't aware. They are. People are so aware Hypex has sold out of every batch so far, within hours!

 Look at how many hits the Ncore forum already has. tens and tens of thousands. And it's a brand new forum. Those are all guests stopping in to read.

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #22 on: 31 May 2012, 01:09 am »

 That said, while we're here, I was always interested in Cherry amps, and I see they have very good specs.

Freo-1

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #23 on: 31 May 2012, 01:32 am »
The speakers connected to the amp have a large impact on the ear/brain interaction.  Since obtaining speakers that employ SEAS magnesium drivers, the differences in amps have become much more apparent when playing music. 
The measurements aspect on amp reviews often do not take into account the time domain aspect of the output signal, which is not trivial.
 
There was discussion on another site about whaat one hears vs. what is measured.  A gent who designed amps for many years posted some intriguing insight I would like to share here:
 
“Class A does not have the crossover distortion of AB. Designers use feedback (local or global) to eliminate that form of distortion - but since feedback takes some time in order to come into effect - you get some "open loop" crossover distortion in a transient that a simple measurement won't appear - but may be very apparent in the time domain. The sound will be DE-sweetened vs. a class A. That is a rather large effect.
 
There are other effects surrounding things like device parameters (input capacitances, diode effects, etc. depending upon the device used) that behave much better with class A than AB.
 
Also there are a couple of ways of handling the bias of class A. If the bias is "open loop" then on peaks it can break into AB (though the gain can drop a bit unless you wrap feedback around it and play games with bias level) which can affect the sound. You can also force a particular bias on a transistor "come Hell or high water" which I personally prefer - but it has its own problems, too - but this will affect the sound of Class A and why some class A stuff doesn’t sound like others.
 
Another BIG factor is how the power supply is bypassed. This is a dirty little secret on how electronics manufacturers get their "house sound" - the amount and value of capacitors on the power supply lines will have a huge impact on the sound.”

Barry_NJ

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Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #24 on: 31 May 2012, 02:50 am »
I'm excited to have a listen and compare not only to Cherry Amp technology but also to our NEW technology (will be released soon).  Just glad that Class-D is continuing to gain momentum as a superior type of power As we get ready to introduce our new class of amplifiers, we would like to know if the areas we have tweaked for are in common.

New DAC amplifier technology!?!?!? Tommy, you're a tease and I'm thoroughly intrigued. When can I hear them?

Occam

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #25 on: 31 May 2012, 03:11 am »
Freo,

Please stop with these unattributed quotes. They're worthless. Please provide a link.
I'd very much like to read the original responses to this twaddle from someone who actually took, and passed a course in control theory.

TIA,
Paul

EDIT:
Tommy - My sincere apologies for taking the troll's bait. The unattributed quote comes from -
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=general&m=622366
Nothing new to be learned there.
I look forward to hearing your newest amps.
« Last Edit: 1 Jun 2012, 08:21 pm by Occam »

cab

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #26 on: 31 May 2012, 03:46 am »
New DAC amplifier technology!?!?!? Tommy, you're a tease and I'm thoroughly intrigued. When can I hear them?

I'll bet we will be seeing a lot of "new technology" coming out now that the ncore has raised the bar....

lonewolfny42

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Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #27 on: 31 May 2012, 07:00 am »
Tommy....see...this link....

Freo-1

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #28 on: 31 May 2012, 08:53 pm »
Freo,

Please stop with these unattributed quotes. They're worthless. Please provide a link.
I'd very much like to read the original responses to this twaddle from someone who actually took, and passed a course in control theory.

TIA,
Paul

 
Paul,
The twaddle you refer to is not from the quotes, but the (over) reaction to any posts that is seen as not promoting the “best amp evea!” hype surrounding some of this gear.   :lol:
 
Go over to Audio Asylum and find a thread called “what is measured vs. what is heard”.  You will find a reasonable dialogue on the subject.  You may pick up something along the way.  ;) It's in the general area.

 
TIA

cab

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #29 on: 31 May 2012, 09:10 pm »
I don't recall reading any comments to the effect that "it is the best amp ever". I have read several of your comments though were you imply that the ncore can't be as good as dozens of people have reported simply because it is a class d design. Without hearing it to boot....now that is what I call twaddle....

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #30 on: 31 May 2012, 09:30 pm »
 Freo is still at this stage, denial:

"As I stated in my first listen on Friday night, the biggest issue one needs to get over is the fact that they will keep up with probably any amp you compare them to.  In my system they accomplished 95-99% of what I asked them to do, and for what….like $1800??  And in many less power-hungry systems, or for many less-dynamic hungry listeners, they will likely do 100+%.  Their diminutive physical presence is almost a problem, due to bias and expectation.  It’s like hearing those great modern mini-monitors and swearing a subwoofer must be on somewhere….so you have an obstacle going in that shouldn’t be there. "

 -TedB.

 Pass Labs have already been compared and beaten, fyi.

Freo-1

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #31 on: 31 May 2012, 09:36 pm »
It may very well be a fine sounding amp.  I have previously stated that I would like to get around to hearing them.   However, Class D DOES have a lot of challenges to overcome, and it's very reasonable to question how one class D amp has allegedly managed to overcome all of them. 
 
There indeed have been a lot of posts implying that it is the best amp yet.  When someone argues that point and takes offense to someone pointing out that it operates in Class D,  that is considered twaddle.
 
As elegantly stated earlier, tastes are very personal in nature, so the Class D may not be for everyone.  Tubes are not for everyone, either.  Truth be told, ALL amps deviate from theoretical, and it’s those differences we debate about.  There is no absolute right or wrong, it’s a matter of tastes.

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #32 on: 31 May 2012, 09:41 pm »
I don't think you're understanding that it appears that any challenges faced by classD might still apply to classD but not the ncore.

Freo-1

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #33 on: 31 May 2012, 09:54 pm »
I don't think you're understanding that it appears that any challenges faced by classD might still apply to classD but not the ncore.

With all due respect, that is BS.  Engineering challenges apply to ALL amp types, and each topology type has its own set of issues to overcome.  The Ncore did not suddenly conquer physics.  I'm sure it has elegantly addressed the issues to improve overall performance.   Still does not mean that "everyone" will like it better than anything else.  I do want to try them with my speakers and see how they perform.

BTW, comparing amps is a subjective exercise, not an objective one.  So, for any set of people that like A over B, there is another set that likes B over A. 

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #34 on: 31 May 2012, 10:03 pm »
Well, there hasn't been anyone not liking them yet. Perhaps you will be the first.

sts9fan

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #35 on: 31 May 2012, 10:06 pm »
Well, there hasn't been anyone not liking them yet. Perhaps you will be the first.

You forgot the "that I have heard of"

Rclark

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #36 on: 31 May 2012, 10:08 pm »
Hence the "yet".

sts9fan

Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #37 on: 31 May 2012, 10:09 pm »
Yet would refer to the fact that nobody has disliked them. You do not have that data.

munosmario

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Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #38 on: 31 May 2012, 10:48 pm »
Well, there hasn't been anyone not liking them yet. Perhaps you will be the first.

Rclark, Freo1 may "like" the Ncore but still not "prefer" it over any other amp he may have access to.  Given his system, his room, and his criteria for SQ determinants/preferences, despite his potentially liking the Ncore, Freo1 (or, for that matter, anybody else liking the Ncore over many other amps) may still prefer an specific amp of different topology or, who knows, even another class D amp like one from the Digital Amplifier Company--precisely, the subject of this thread.

munosmario

OzarkTom

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Re: Comparing Cherry Amps to ncore
« Reply #39 on: 31 May 2012, 11:40 pm »
Yet would refer to the fact that nobody has disliked them. You do not have that data.

I have read where some has listened, but liked their current amp as much or more.