Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's

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roymail

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Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« on: 15 Apr 2012, 11:05 pm »
Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's

All recommendations appreciated... Thanks!  :D

geowak

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #1 on: 15 Apr 2012, 11:23 pm »
Older classic Rega Apollo (Wolfson WM8740 Sigma Delta) and the new Rega Apollo-R (Wolfson WM8742)

Great DAC, unique ball and chuck top loading transport. Tremendous buffer design and other features...

The sound and technology of these units is superb. I had a Cambridge Audio, Sony, Onkyo and Marantz CD players that did not sound as good as the Rega Apollo.

IMO :D

Rclark

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #2 on: 15 Apr 2012, 11:24 pm »
Emotiva Erc-2 sounds excellent. Spacious, dimensional, detailed, neutral. Ad1955.

Doublej

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #3 on: 16 Apr 2012, 12:13 am »
I am told that the Samsung BD-D6700 has excellent audio although I haven't heard it myself.

It's discontinued but you might be able to find one still.

Poultrygeist

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #4 on: 16 Apr 2012, 01:09 am »
I have one of these modded units and it's performance is close to my $1000 Marantz SA8004.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/sony-ps-1-scph-5501-modified-cd-player--14

roymail

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #5 on: 16 Apr 2012, 02:27 pm »
Thanks guys for all the suggestions.  I'm checking out several of these.  More are welcome.

I have found that you can take a decent player, clean up the power supply and upgrade the internal DAC and have a very nice sounding CDP.

wisnon

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #6 on: 16 Apr 2012, 02:37 pm »
A bargain!:
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-C-S5VL-Super-Audio-Player/dp/B002C73WRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334586861&sr=8-1
Plays SACD as well. No Op amps, discrete SS output stage. Great digital filters for RBCD and DSD.

Read the user reviews at Amazon and online "pro" reviews.

$350-

Technical Details
Plays Super Audio CD, Audio CD, CD-R, CD-RW, MP3 CD, and WMA CD
High-Grade Wolfson 192 kHz/24-Bit D/A Converter (WM8742) with DSD Bit-Stream Support for Super Audio CD Applications
2 Digital Outputs (Optical and Coaxial)
Repeat Modes (Super Audio CD and CD: Disc/Track/A-B Repeat, MP3 CD and WMA CD: Disc/Track/Folder/A-B Repeat)
Hi-Rigidity, Anti-Resonant Flat Chassis (1/16? [1.6 mm] Thick)

Letitroll98

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #7 on: 17 Apr 2012, 02:36 am »
A bargain!:
http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-C-S5VL-Super-Audio-Player/dp/B002C73WRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334586861&sr=8-1
Plays SACD as well. No Op amps, discrete SS output stage. Great digital filters for RBCD and DSD.

Read the user reviews at Amazon and online "pro" reviews.

$350-

Technical Details
Plays Super Audio CD, Audio CD, CD-R, CD-RW, MP3 CD, and WMA CD
High-Grade Wolfson 192 kHz/24-Bit D/A Converter (WM8742) with DSD Bit-Stream Support for Super Audio CD Applications
2 Digital Outputs (Optical and Coaxial)
Repeat Modes (Super Audio CD and CD: Disc/Track/A-B Repeat, MP3 CD and WMA CD: Disc/Track/Folder/A-B Repeat)
Hi-Rigidity, Anti-Resonant Flat Chassis (1/16? [1.6 mm] Thick)

Also available at Vann's for the same price, pick in store.

roymail

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #8 on: 17 Apr 2012, 07:28 pm »
How does the Onkyo C-S5VL cdp do playing discs burned from iTunes to AAC?  I have a lot of them beside lots of redbook discs.  No SACD at the present time, but that will change if I get this player.

I read a number of reviews, and it sounds like a very nice player.  Thanks for the recommendation.

Letitroll98

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #9 on: 17 Apr 2012, 10:42 pm »
roymail, I'm wondering if we should be buying a CDP.  I might be interested in picking up something exactly like you ask for in the OP.  Then I read some posts over on the Hi Rez Circle (whose well meaning posts confuse as much as enlighten a digital dyslexic like me) where they say that any disc played through a CDP will never compare to it's equal* disseminated through a hard drive and DAC because of the reading errors in the disc.  *e.g. SACD compared to high rez files, cd's compared to 16/44 files.  Luckily I'm fine living with my present setup until the paralysis of analysis subsides, but the question remains, should any of us even consider buying a CDP?

Rclark

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #10 on: 17 Apr 2012, 10:48 pm »

 My idea now, since I already have the cdp, is to give one of these reclockers a try, such as the Emprical Audio Synchro Mesh.

 It appears that the jury is still out on whether cd is inferior to computer audio. There is an example here of a real world scenario where a gentleman had a computer setup with all the bells and whistles and his cdp sounded better.
 
 

Letitroll98

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #11 on: 17 Apr 2012, 11:13 pm »
Yes, exactly, that's why I like to let the dust settle.  I grock it for a bit then pick up last years proven technology at bargain prices.  This is the Cheap and Cheerful Circle, right?  At least this argument rationalizes my paralysis to an acceptable level for me.

Passive Chappy

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #12 on: 18 Apr 2012, 03:50 am »
This out just came out, I think, and looks interesting -

http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/ZcdBrochure.pdf

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #13 on: 18 Apr 2012, 04:33 am »
Audio Advisor is running a sale on a demo unit of the Cambridge Audio 840c V2 for $895, it is a steal at that price.  I use to own the V1 as well as the 740c and Marantz SA 8001 SACD player.  I got rid of them all for a Van Alstine hybrid dac.

You can take a look at the Cambridge Audio 550 and the Marantz 5004 if you are really on a budget.  Also consider the Oppo BDP-95 or the Nuforce Modded unit, both are very good at SACD and CD play back, plus they will play blu ray audio and movies.

roymail

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #14 on: 18 Apr 2012, 05:26 am »
The OP says... Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's.  The reason I worded it that way is that I have had several modded cdp's that sounded awesome.  Neither one of them were very expensive to begin with.  I spent more on the mods than the cost of the unit.  But, I ended up with a very clean power supplies and beautiful sounding DAC's for a great price.  No noise that I could hear, and high resolution at least to my ears.

I have gobs of cd's and enjoy using a cdp.  And, my wife wouldn't know how to use anything else.  No need for me to change.

roymail

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #15 on: 18 Apr 2012, 05:33 am »
This out just came out, I think, and looks interesting -
http://www.parasound.com/pdfs/ZcdBrochure.pdf

This is an interesting cdp.  I'm particularly impressed with it's dedicated volume control and usb playback.

Trazom

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #16 on: 18 Apr 2012, 09:32 am »
Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's

All recommendations appreciated... Thanks!  :D

try OPPO 95 - plays everything and has one of the best DAC-Chips built in ...

JohnR

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #17 on: 18 Apr 2012, 09:32 am »
roymail, I'm wondering if we should be buying a CDP.  I might be interested in picking up something exactly like you ask for in the OP.  Then I read some posts over on the Hi Rez Circle (whose well meaning posts confuse as much as enlighten a digital dyslexic like me) where they say that any disc played through a CDP will never compare to it's equal* disseminated through a hard drive and DAC because of the reading errors in the disc.  *e.g. SACD compared to high rez files, cd's compared to 16/44 files.  Luckily I'm fine living with my present setup until the paralysis of analysis subsides, but the question remains, should any of us even consider buying a CDP?

Well, it's one of those things. Computer-based playback may be only slightly less daunting than getting (back) into vinyl. I could easily see someone spending a lot of time on it and chucking it all in in frustration after a while. Essentially, I see it as akin to adopting a new format, are you prepared to put in the effort to make it work for you?

And even if you do, you will still need a CDP somewhere in the house because someone is going to bring over some CDs, or you borrow some from the library, and you will not necessarily want to summarily rip them and contaminate your collection just in order to play it.

ken

Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #18 on: 18 Apr 2012, 01:02 pm »
If you can find a used Eastsound E-5 for sale jump on it.  For the price they sell for used it's a genuine bargain.  They're built like a tank (mine weighs 25 lbs) and sound great.  A fellow AC member was selling the Signature edition back in December and it's still not marked as sold.  You may want to check it out, Here's the link

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100325.0http://

wisnon

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Re: Affordable CD players with good internal DAC's
« Reply #19 on: 18 Apr 2012, 02:59 pm »

If you want a killer transport on the cheap, try one of those mid-2000s Universal players! Denon/Sony/Pioneer etc all have famous models of this genre, but the Sonys are famous for NOT playing DVD-A. Most of these models have service manuals that can be found on the Net for free. In these manuals are the details of where the SPDIF digital audio signals exit the processing chip, before entering the onboard receiver Chips/DACs.

One of the best is the Denon DVD3910 as it plays CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, HDCD, etc. truly universal. The chassis is huge and hefty (easy to mod, as space and accessibility is plentiful) and the transport mechanism is rock solid. The only weak point is the relatively frail lasers that go after 4-5 years or so. This WAS a problem in the past when Denon would charge $350 for a replacement.

However, the secret is out on the Net that the generic part name is the Hitachi HOP1200 series. Any of the Hop1200 R, S, N will work as a drop-in replacement and the 1200W will work if you replace the entire laser assembly, which costs the same as just the laser head. $15 plus delivery from Liberty electronics in Fla, and there are other similar sources if you google elsewhere in the USA. Get a couple spares and you are set virtually forever!

Now for the (very cheap)mod….the basis is that being that the 3910 is a Universal player, it was engineered specifically to optimize the video playback and so has high precision laser/ spinning mechanism AND a huge FIFO buffer. All these benefits transfer to simple RBCD playback as well. However, such devices were designed to show off the SOTA DACS at the time and SOTA video playback, so guess which outputs got priority/TLC in design implementation? You got it, video out and analog out, and SPDIF out was treated as the red-hedded stepchild! So despite having all the elements for KILLER SPDIF output, the superb SPDIF signal left the chip and then followed a meandering trail on the PCB going all over the place and degrading the fragile SPDIF signal. So what to do?

The answer is obvious when you think of it. Steal the SPDIF signal from source and use soemthing like a teflon coated thin silver wire to run from the CORRECT SPDIF out chip leg and connect to a newly drilled SPDIF out RCA terminal (via a 300ohm resistor). Depending on what DAC is to be used, a cap may also be needed to match impedence. I have a Lampi DAC and propbably dont even need the resistor! The other thin wire is for grounding and runs from the negative leg of a nearby electrolytic Cap to the GND connection of the new RCA terminal. Voila, killer SPDIF on the cheap!

To take it to the next level, you can order a digi-lampizator kit for about $100 from Poland and pass the Spdif signal thru this tube output stage to amplify and “square up” the digital signal even more! Total investment will be about $350 for this utimate level, including used DVD player, assorted parts, digi-lamp kit, technician’s labour, etc. Less than $200 total for the basic mod which already is astounding (60-70% of total improvement). I assume you can pick up a used Denon for $100-150 via ebay.




Feedback below
 

This is the feedback from a buddy who has a fully modded Denon.

J. came over last night for another enjoyable evening of wonderful music and ear-shocking revelations (yes, he brought the 2900).  We played my system using the Sony 5400ES as a transport for about 3 hours, and then we inserted the 2900 into the system.  After and enjoyable dinner and much-needed warm-up for the Denon, I inserted a disc and pressed the "play" button.  Holy moly!  The positive difference between the modded 2900 and the 5400ES was startling.  The music seemed to be coming from everywhere!  Then J. said (with a big smile):  "If you think this is good, you should hear the 3910 with the tubed digi-lampzator SPDIF output in your system."     

Hopefully, Lukasz still has a 3910 in stock but I will completely understand if he does not (perhaps he could make a recommendation regarding another piece of gear).  Regardless, the modified Denon 2910, played through an LZ4, was absolutely breathtaking, involving to the max, and simply "sonically right."  In the right hands (Lukasz), there appears to be hope for Redbook cd playback.  Unbelievable!  .