AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Hollis Audio Labs => Topic started by: HAL on 14 Oct 2017, 05:03 pm
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Now that GR-Research and the Parts-Express folks have the new Neo3 and Neo10 planar drivers again, back to The Monolith speaker design.
The baffle has the 45 degree wing, but needs felt to work correctly, so making the angle lower as Danny has suggested is the better way to go. The future is going to work toward the 10 degree version with the GR-Neo3 and PE Neo10 planars.
The 3x8" OB H-Frames are built and next will be installing the drivers and connection to the Rythmik HX300 amps.
The dspMusikLCD will be the digital crossover and entire interface for the system to DC coupled amps the HX300 servo amps with balanced connections.
Picture is with the OB planars on two of the modular 2x12's for The Megaliths. Both OB servo sub arrays work well with the planars as it is easy to change levels to each amp with the dspMusikLCD.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169859)
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The new GR Neo3 and PE BG Neo10 planars have arrived.
Should have them installed later this week and make measurements for the updated dspMusikLCD crossover.
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Back from travel and here are the GR Neo3 and latest version BG Neo10 from PE.
Now to see how the speakers measure with the latest drivers.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170052)
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Rich, they're scary looking!
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Good! BWAHAHAHAHAH! :thumb:
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Hello HAL,
I'm interested in your design. First, I've seen many OB designs with a wing or two on the tweeter/midrange array. Wing on the inside, wing on the outside, wings on both sides. I'd like to learn more about this type of design, can you point me to the resources you used? Next, on the OB subs, are those basically Danny Richie type servo subs? They look awesome! How much more output do you get over the two-driver-per-side version?
TIA,
JakeJ
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JakeJ,
These are a prototype of something Danny Richie had discussed as an idea for OB planar BG drivers. We discussed them as something to try. The baffles in the picture are with the high angle wing, that showed surface reflection problems at the 135 degree angle. Lowering the angle will solve that problem.
The 2x12" H-Frames in the picture are a part of my 6x12" H-Frame modular servo sub that uses Danny's 12" OB sub drivers and Rythmik HX800 amps. Add about 7dB for the full 6x12 array over the 2x12".
This design uses two 3x8" servo sub arrays with Danny's drivers and the Rythmik HX300 amps. The H-Frames are in the back of the room to be loaded with the drivers and wired to connectors.
The digital crossover will be the dspMusikLCD. Have an idea for a consumer stereo amp to use with this triamp design.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=169859)
Wow! What an amazingly musical world you live in! :thumb:
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Thanks! That is my plan! :thumb:
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Thanks for the info!
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You are welcome!
Hope to get the new drivers into one baffle today to compare to the old drivers. Already have a dspMusik crossover completed, so now for some tweaking if needed.
This pair will be working with two Parasound A23 stereo amps and two Rythmik HX300 servo amps. All using balanced inputs from the dspMusikLCD DSP crossover. The A23 DC coupled, servo loop design is a great one to try with the Neo3/Neo10 drivers.
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Hi Hal,
What amps are you going to drive those with? Just curious. :)
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Two Parasound A23's designed by John Curl and two Rythmik HX300's for the 3x8" servo subs.
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Hope to get the new drivers into one baffle today to compare to the old drivers.
Hi Rich, the Neo10's aren't the same driver as before? (Sorry if I'm misunderstanding)
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The latest Neo10's from Parts-Express are supposed to be the same. Got a pair to test in the old design baffles.
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I hope they are the same - I've heard a ton of speakers and drivers in my lifetime and nothing really matches the Neo10 and Neo3 combo for mids/highs. There might be one or 2 better tweeters out there (like the big AMTs), but if you're looking for something that does 200hz to 20,000hz seamlessly and beautifully, nothing else really comes close to this combo.
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The first Parasound Halo A23 amp arrives today. The second A23 comes next week.
Will be installing the new Neo planars in the baffle and see what happens. Then to get the 3x8" servo sub drivers installed.
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Time to try the A23 out with the Neo3 and Neo10 baffle!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170137)
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Here are some pictures of the test baffle with an original BG Neo10 installed. The original GR Neo3-PDR is pulled to install the latest GR Neo3. Will pull the original Neo10 and install the latest production Neo10. The second mirror image baffle has the original GR and BG drivers installed.
Yes I do know the new GR Neo3 is different from the original, so that will show in the measurements. Also will reinstall the felt on the panels to reduce surface reflections.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170174)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170175)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170176)
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The original GR modified Neo3-PDR and new GR Neo3 tweeters. The connectors have changed. Like the new arrangement.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170177)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170178)
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The Monolith test baffle with the new GR Neo3 and BG Neo10 installed. Next for some wiring and checkout.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170186)
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The planar mid and tweeter are wired and ready for testing. The 14awg polyolefin insulated wiring has been very easy to work with for the drivers.
Now to connect up to the Parasound A23 and see if we let out any magic smoke. If not, measurements.
Next is wire up the two 3x8" servo sub arrays and HX300 amps.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170213)
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The open baffle planar top sitting on the 3x8" H-Frame for the servo subs. Getting ready for measurements.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170235)
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Pocket CLIO and calibrated mic running with the Parasound Halo A23 amp for GR Neo3 and BG Neo10 measurements in the OB is alive and well! :)
Now to find a good spot in the room with low reflections to make some far field measurements.
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Second test baffle with original GR Neo3-PDR and BG Neo10 planars installed and wired. Working with the Parasounds Zamp V.3 for testing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170268)
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Talked to Danny and the 8" servo subs are all gone. Time to go back to the pair of 2x12 H-Frame servo subs. Will get some and run them from the HX300's I have. Works well for this setup from past trials.
Or I can just use the two 6x12" servo subs for some fun. :)
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Weather was good today so tried the measurement setup outside on the deck. Still some bugs to work out, so more tomorrow more trials if the weather is good.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170284)
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We don't have any bugs on our deck in Colorado, Rich . . .
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Luckily most of those types of bugs were not out. :D
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Discovered something I had forgotten.
The tweeters in these baffles are BG Neo3-PDR's not the GR versions. The pair of GR versions went to a person wanting to build another GR speaker system that needed those.
Weather looks good so will try another round of measurements today. Found out the connection terminals on the Neo3-PDR were to close to the rivets and shorting out. Dropped the tweeter level way down, so now insulation is on the rivets to stop that from happening.
Just got the msg that the second Parasound Halo A23 amp arrives today to power the system. :)
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Did a BG Neo10 comparison of an original and new production planar on the mirror image open baffles. Had to swap baffles around, so expected some variation. Looks very close to me with the range expanded to 5dB/Div.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170314)
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Time for some yarn install on the GR Neo3 planar tweeter for testing. Will be following the instructions Danny posted.
Will go slow and see what happens. :o
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In the mean time the connectors and wire to build up the servo subs are here. Wiring up the HX300 servo amps for use.
Getting two 2x12 modular H-Frame open baffle servo sub cabinet flatpacks for build-up. Will setup a second system for trials.
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Did a BG Neo10 comparison of an original and new production planar on the mirror image open baffles. Had to swap baffles around, so expected some variation. Looks very close to me with the range expanded to 5dB/Div.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170314)
I'm thinking these drivers are all N.O.S. from before the buyout by Christie. Do you know for certain that they are newly made?
Greg
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Yes, they are new production when I asked PE.
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Pictures of the modular 2x12 open baffle H-Frames cabinets dry fitted before packing and shipment for glue-up and speaker install. Will use the time delay capabilities of the dspMusikLCD to time align the planars to the servo subs for the correct wavefront launch at the front.
Connectors and wire are here, so will be doing this after CAF2017 this week.
Hope to see folks at the show in Rockville, MD 3-5 Nov at the Hilton.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170545)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=170546)
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Made some new measurements of a baffle with the new planars today to check a baffle modification out.
Should be interesting to hear the difference.
Still need to put the yarn in the GR Neo3 tweeter. Now time to try that.
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Modified the first GR Neo3 planar tweeter today for the Monolith speakers.
Next will be measurements once the rain is passed and dried up for an outside setup.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171081)
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The weather was good today, so did measurement tests with the moded GR Neo3 and new production BG Neo10 on my test baffle.
These were far field gated time measurements on tweeter center axis using Pocket CLIO and calibrated mic.
Now to build a digital crossover and see what happens.
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Looks like the two modular 2x12 ob H-frame servo sub flat packs arrive Friday. Then to do the glue-up and be ready for servo subs to be installed and wired.
Neutrik Speakon connectors and Belden wire are here. Have the two Rythmik HX300 servo amps wired to the mating Speakon 4-wire connectors ready to go.
Found a finishing group and working on a 1x12 module now. Should have the first one done by Friday. The test color is gloss Hot Rod black.
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Just to document the wiring scheme for the Rythmik HX300 servo amp wiring for the 2x12 H-Frames:
Wire with heat shrink is the driver coil connections to Speakon, 1- Yellow = -, and 1+ Black = +
Wire without heat shrink is the servo coil connections to Speakon, 2 - Yellow = -, and 2 + Black = +
Have the TRS to miniXLR cables ready to try with the dspMusikLCD.
Wiring to the 8 dspMusikLCD DAC's to the amp channels will be:
Outputs 1 = GR Neo3 tweeter, 3 = BG Neo10 midrange, 5 = GR servo sub are left channel connections (top TRS connectors)
Outputs 2 = GR Neo3 tweeter, 4 = BG Neo10 midrange, 6 = GR servo sub are right channel connections(bottom TRS connectors)
Outputs 7 left and 8 right are direct wired input to DAC channels for use with a headphone amp or extra subs if time delay is added.
If you need RCA connectors, then TRS to dual RCA connectors can be used and the right channel (red) output is the + polarity for each channel.
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The two modular 2x12 flat packs from Jay have arrived. Boxes look in good shape.
Also have 4 - GR-Research SW-12-16FR sub drivers on order. The two Rythmik HX300 amps are wired and ready.
Will try using a Duratex finish without the texture on these cabinets. Have some black Duratex from Danny to try.
As time until the end of the year permits, will be doing the glue-up and trying the finish. Then integrate them with the baffles. The dspMusikLCD test crossover is done and ready for trials.
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The 4 - GR-Research SW-12-16FR drivers arrive tomorrow. All of the other parts are here for the subs. Then the build-up begins.
The dspMusikLCD crossover is ready and lots of ChipAmps to use for setup.
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All the flat packs and parts are here and in storage until early January to start building. Then time for some listening!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=171679)
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What? January?! Why the delay?
I may have missed something earlier in the thread but until this point I "perceived" this build to be continuous from beginning to end.
It is not to be so?
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The holidays have begun and I have a lot of family related travel until late January.
If I can fit building in, will post as I can, but that is my plan as travel starts this week.
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OK, please excuse my sefishness and enjoy your holidays and family. That time is far more precious.
Between this and the Megalith thread you have my attention, Mr. Hollis. :thumb:
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Glad you are enjoying the threads!
You can watch The Megaliths thread for awhile in Dec. :thumb:
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! :D
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This design is exactly what I have been thinking of building. Waiting for Jan to see how it all goes.
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Since you are close, a demo is possible once things are done.
Will keep everyone posted once I have more time to build the subs.
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That would be great.
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Happy New Year!
Back from Holiday travel and will start the 1x12 glue-up this week. Need a new batch of Titebond glue as the other it to old. Trip to Lowes tomorrow.
Everything is here, so should be pretty quick after the cabinets glue has dried to install drivers and wiring for testing.
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Going to post the two 2x12 modular H-Frame servo sub cabinet build up in Danny's existing thread for folks to watch. Here is the link:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=139480.msg1655223#new
Will put the planar baffles setup in this thread once I have the servo subs completed.
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The first 2x12 H-Frame is glued and test fit done. After snow subsides will get the second box out of storage and glued.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173829)
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Both 2x12 H-Frames are complete and ready to install the drivers and wiring harness for testing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173924)
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The GR-Research SW-12-FR16, speakon connectors and wiring for the modular servo sub cabinets.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173925)
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Servo driver install and begin wiring.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173965)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173966)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173967)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=173968)
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Drivers installed and wiring for the speakers is done. Now for some testing.
Will be using a dspMusikLCD 2x8 for both measurements and testing for the digital crossover for The Monoliths.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174013)
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Setup the new measurement system for the 2x12 servo subs using Room EQ Wizard driving the dspMusikLCD from my PC Netbook. This is very similar to me running it with the MS-3 Music Server.
REW's latest beta software added ASIO drivers running at 24bit/192KHz that work correctly with the dspMusikLCD. Nice easy setup for the system.
Using the Earthworks M550 calibrated Omni and 1021 mic preamp for input to the dspMusikLCD. Works very well with an extremely short impulse response for a measurement mic.
Tried a ground plane measurement with success and next some nearfield measurements to compare.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174079)
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What the prototype of The Megaliths looks like with the open baffle planar top added.
The OB top will change from the previous measurements, but this is a good setup for dspMusikLCD crossover design trials.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174096)
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Nearfield sub measurements look good, so off to building the second 2x12. :D
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The second 2x12 H-Frame is loaded with servo drivers and ready for wiring. Both HX300 amps are working with sub #1.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174193)
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Looks awesome, would love to hear that kind of subwoofer sometime. Seems like you got to build it to hear it.
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There a quite a few people around that have them. Danny has a thread in GR-Research Circle with owners that will demo their speakers. Someone might be in your area.
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That would be cool. How would you describe how the sound compares with an array of sealed box subwoofers like I have?
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They do not load a room the same was as a sealed or ported woofer. Sounds very natural to me in a 2x12 or larger array. The 6x12's sound massive in my room, but no boom or bloat like most box subs.
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These subs are scarey because they are so fast. Zero overhang. The servo circuit starts and stops the drivers on dime and gives ya nine cents change back. Not to mention there few subs that can keep up with the P-Audio driver used in the famous Super V design.
Probably a good reason HAL is using them mated to NEO drivers which is my plan.
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These subs are scarey because they are so fast. Zero overhang. The servo circuit starts and stops the drivers on dime and gives ya nine cents change back. Not to mention there few subs that can keep up with the P-Audio driver used in the famous Super V design.
Probably a good reason HAL is using them mated to NEO drivers which is my plan.
I have a sealed servo design subwoofer. What is the benefit of the open baffle in aiding the servo circuit in doing its thing, I wonder?
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An open baffle sub has a different sound radiation pattern into a room than box subs.
The open baffle H-Frame has a figure of 8 style sound radiation pattern, so very little sound at 90 degrees to the front, back or top. That means less side wall and ceiling interaction with the subs. All box subs either sealed or ported have an Omni radiation pattern so more sound hitting the sidewall and ceiling. If you walk around each type of sub you will hear the difference.
The servo sub controls the driver to make it act more as a piston for better frequency response and lower distortion. Brian has shown a test box with a servo driver and servo amp at RMAF. With the amp off, it is easy to move the cone. With the amp on, no cone movement pushing on it as the servo is actively stopping any movement that is not the input signal.
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Modular 2x12 servo sub #2 is wired and running. Test signal working fine, so both subs are complete. Finishing will happen later.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174210)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174211)
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Both HX300-8OB amps are headed to Rythmik Audio to be moded to HX300-12OB for the 2x12 subs.
Hope to have them back the end of January.
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The update from Rythmik Audio today is they have received the HX300-8OB for mod to HX300-12OB and should be completed and shipped by Monday.
Should have them next week and start new measurements.
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So why did you use the HX300 instead of the A370PEQ amps? Were they originally bought for 8" subs?
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Yes, getting mods for the new 2x12's.
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Have a pair of Parasound Halo A23 stereo amps ready for the open baffle planar top when the HX300-12OB amps arrive for a triamp setup with the dspMusikLCD digital crossover being used with the MS-3 for the entire system to run The Monoliths. The A23's sound great with the line arrays, so going in this system for trials as well.
The dspMusikLCD will allow time alignment of the top baffle and sub drivers using time delay for the top to match the subs. This allows both wavefronts to align correctly.
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The HX300-12OB servo amps should be here from Rythmik Audio tomorrow. Time to give the updated amps a try with the 2x12's.
Then add the planar OB tops for some dspMusikLCD 2x8 digital crossover measurements, updates and listening!
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The Rythmik Audio HX300-12OB servo amps are here and warming up to room temp before opening the box. Connecting after that to the dspMusikLCD 2x8 for testing with the sub cabinets. Probably tomorrow as they need a few hours to warm up.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175430)
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The Rythmik Audio HX300-12OB servo amps arrived today and now installed with the subs.
Tomorrow will be testing with the dspMusikLCD 2x8 and see what happens.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175443)
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Both HX300-12OB amps are running balanced inputs with the dspMusikLCD 2x8 and will be connecting up the measurement mic for trials.
The test pink noise now sounds much smoother across the band now that they are correct for the subs.
No hum from anything and no special connections to have them close to the source. Love those balanced connections.
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Next stage of the testing. Add the OB planar top and see how it works.
The dspMusikLCD 2x8 crossover it working and now to make some new measurements with CLIO Pocket.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=175532)
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The original pair of 3x8" H-Frames Ruben I built for the servo subs for this project are now on the way to their new owner. Basically the kit of all the parts without the wiring or connectors.
No need for them with the 2x12's.
Hope he enjoys building them up for use!
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A new version of the baffle for the Neo3 and Neo 10 planars is on the way for testing and listening. This will have some new ideas incorporated in the design. Will be updating the dspMusikLCD crossover design to work with this baffle and new GR Neo3 tweeters.
Also have a new set of HX300-12OB amp box flat packs coming as well for the 2x12 servo subs. Updated boxes with cooling vents for the amp.
These should be interesting!
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Since folks are asking in the servo sub thread how the 2x12 H-Frames sound, the thing that I am waiting for are the new flat pack planar baffles.
These are being made by captainhemo, he sent some pictures of the new test baffle flat packs being shipped. There are a few changes that are in work, but these are close. Not shown is the small side wing next to the BG Neo10.
Also have a pair of HX300-12OB plate amp flat pack cabinets coming as well.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176701)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176702)
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...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176702)
Hal,
Please excuse the dumb question. What is the purpose of the single baffle/wing that is behind the planar driver ?
TIA
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It is an open baffle speaker, so the wing acts to extend the response of the BG Neo10 driver down to the 200Hz acoustic point for crossover.
If you look at the GR-Research NX-Otica and NX-treme speakers the MTM section uses this same design idea that Danny has been discussing.
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Got feedback the one and only pair of 3x8" servo sub prototypes with the Rythmik HX300-8OB amps are built and up and running. He is starting the setup process with his speakers.
Glad to see they are finally done and in use.
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Extra pair of GR Neo3 planar tweeters on order from Danny.
That will make this a bit easier for some comparisons.
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It is an open baffle speaker, so the wing acts to extend the response of the BG Neo10 driver down to the 200Hz acoustic point for crossover.
If you look at the GR-Research NX-Otica and NX-treme speakers the MTM section uses this same design idea that Danny has been discussing.
I remember years ago people were experimenting with "wings" on Magnepan woofer-sides to try to further separate the front and back waves to generate more bass output (or minimize the cancellations).
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The measurements show it works in this case, so will be part of The Monoliths design and also part of The Megaliths design.
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Yes, Danny has it figured out, using it in a number of different designs and all are great :thumb:
jay
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A new pair of GR Neo3 tweeters arrived from Danny today. :D
Once the new baffle flat packs arrive, will be time for glue-up, install and testing with the 2x12 servo subs.
Got my fingers crossed with the weather the baffles might be here next week.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177020)
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Danny provide the black yarn? :lol:
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Yes. Comes with the GR Neo3's for the mod.
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New HX300 servo amp boxes are here from Jay. Time for some gluing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177848)
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First HX300 amp box glued and clamped to dry. Last one to build after this one sets.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177875)
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What is the higher end amp, the A370 or the HX300/500? I am driving 2 of Dannys 12s
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The A370 PEQ has more adjustability and of course, the PEQ. Also has more power.... if using in Ht in conjunction with the 8 ohm SW12's, they can be over driven. Music is not an issue nor is the 16 ohm version in either application (music/HT)
jay
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Here are the flat pack parts for an HX300 servo amp box. Nicely cut and easy to glue with the biscuits.
Takes less than 10 minutes for me to glue and clamp. Then let dry overnight and ready to apply a finish.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177878)
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Looks great, Rich!
Cheers,
Pete
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The A370 PEQ has more adjustability and of course, the PEQ. Also has more power.... if using in Ht in conjunction with the 8 ohm SW12's, they can be over driven. Music is not an issue nor is the 16 ohm version in either application (music/HT)
jay
OK so it looks like I have the right amp, the only thing is I need a slightly higher XO freq like on the HX. I am using it strictly for music.
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Looks great, Rich!
Cheers,
Pete
Thanks Pete!
Jay did a great job on them as well as the 2x12 cabinets.
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OK so it looks like I have the right amp, the only thing is I need a slightly higher XO freq like on the HX. I am using it strictly for music.
For this speaker application I want balanced inputs and the higher XO frequency to integrate with the dspMusikLCD digital crossover for direct drive of each speaker element.
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OK so it looks like I have the right amp, the only thing is I need a slightly higher XO freq like on the HX. I am using it strictly for music.
The A370PEQ will play up pretty darn high in an OB configuration. Use the AvR/12 slope and you'll be amazed at where it will reach.. Danny regularily crosses around 200Hz using this slope setting.
How high do you need them to play ?
jay
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For this speaker application I want balanced inputs and the higher XO frequency to integrate with the dspMusikLCD digital crossover for direct drive of each speaker element.
How high do the HX series reach rich ?
jay
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Jay,
The HX300 amp says 200Hz @ 12dB/Oct. That should be the -3dB point, so higher frequency for -6dB.
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HX300 amp box #2 completed. Plate amp fit before finishing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177937)
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HX300 amp box #2 completed. Plate amp fit before finishing.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=177937)
Hey, they fit 8)
jay
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Jay,
Nice fit with lots of cooling. :thumb:
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Latest pictures of The Monoliths new planar baffles from Jay. Also one with the servo subs.
Looking forward to building these when the flat packs arrive!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178569)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178570)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=178571)
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Looking good Jay!
Rich, anxious to see what you come up with, I’m currently running NX Ottica MTMs in a similar footprint.
Best,
Ed
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Ed,
Once I have the baffles will be a quick glue-up and then install the planars for measurements and then dspMusikLCD crossover update from the original version with the old open baffles.
Just moded the next pair of GR Neo3's today with the yarn. Ready with those and the pair of BG Neo10's to get the baffles setup for listening with the 2x12 H-Frames servo subs.
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and...? :popcorn:
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Waiting on the new baffles from CNC to use.
No schedule at this point.
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For those that did not see the other thread, here is the latest baffle update.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181471)
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Hoping next week Rich :hyper:
I'll grab a couple more screen shots and post for you
jay
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Here are a couple different angle captures of the front and ne of the rear side of the baffle
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181501) (https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181502)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=181503)
jay
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Jay,
Great! Very cool! :hyper:
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Latest test baffle from Jay for the Monoliths. Will be interesting to see the response with the latest waveguide.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182271)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182272)
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any update?
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The final version of the baffle is at CNC to cut baffles.
Waiting on an update of when they will be cut and ready to send them for finishing. After that ship here to load drivers.
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Here's response Danny measured in the new baffle.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=182909)
jay
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Jay,
The frequency response from Danny looks great!
Prototype dspMusikLCD digital XO is in work to bi-amp the planar speakers with the HX300 servo amps for the subs. The original crossover I did for the early planar prototypes is very close. Now to tweak it a bit.
Rich
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UPS shows The Monoliths baffle flat packs should be here this week. Will post pictures when they arrive and are then built.
The dspMusikLCD is ready to try for testing.
Time for some glue up and driver install soon.
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IT... BEGINS...
The Monoliths flat pack baffles have arrived and Danny and Jay's team did a great job. Packed to survive!
Now to see if I can do justice to them in glue-up and updated dspMusikLCD crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183871)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183872)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183873)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183874)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183875)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183876)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183877)
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Yup, we pack so they are almost bomb proof :beer:
You'll do fine gluing them up Rich, just have a damp Q-tip handy to wipe any glue squish out of those nice reveals I cut for you. You won't need much clamping force for these, just enough to keep things snug while the glue sets off.
They should look great on top of those modular duals we sent you, looking forward to seeing pics and hearing your impressions
jay
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Glue-up has begun.
Started with the short side wing and small clamps. Glue and let set.
Attach bottom plate to baffle and short side wing with glue and clamp let it set.
After that will attach the long side wing with glue and let it set over night.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183896)
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Baffle #1 is glued and drying. Will let it set overnight and glue baffle #2.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183907)
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:beer:
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Baffle #2 is glued and drying for 24 hours. Then will install the GR Neo3 and BG Neo10 to start testing.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183917)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183918)
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First look at the new planar baffle on the 2x12" servo sub base.
Once the second baffle glue dries tomorrow, will install the drivers.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=183953)
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Had the BG Neo3-PDR's and BG Neo10's out of the original open baffles and installed one set in the new open baffle today with wiring to get ready for testing. Will be installing them in baffle #2 soon.
Will compare them to the GR-Neo3 as well along the way. If it is just sensitivity differences, easy to adjust for it in the digital crossover.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184041)
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Baffle #2 has planar drivers installed and wired for testing.
Full front view of The Monoliths.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184070)
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Stereo setup of The Monoliths ready for some listening trials with the first version of the dspMusikLCD 2x8 digital crossover.
Have adjusted the time delay for the servo subs to match the planars distance offset.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=184143)
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Nice! How do they sound?
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First listening sessions with tweaking in the dspMusikLCD crossover and it is sounding very good. Some of the ideas from tweaking this may do good things for the line array as well!
Planars and servo subs are definitely my thing.
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There's something special about the Neo10 and Neo3 combo, IMO. I think it has to do with the fact that the drivers are the same material and same geometry. There's a cohesiveness to the sound that speakers using cone drivers (and/or dome tweeters) just can't match. It's hard to describe, but once you've experienced it, it's really hard to go back.
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Got to use a very large room for measuring The Monoliths planar open baffle and from those did the updated digital crossover design.
Now that I have the updated speaker dspMusikLCD digital crossover design running it sounds even better than the first version. Running the planars with a pair of Parasound ZAmp v.3's and the Rythmik HX300's for the subs. They play cleanly and plenty loud in a living room that I have them in that is more normal size. Put some PI Audio Group diffusor panels behind them and helps tame the room a lot.
Just when you want to sit down and do more listening, time to disassemble the speakers. The two 2x12's go tomorrow for finish application.
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These look great! You guys should consider a version using the V2 base bins. Link to V2 http://gr-research.com/v-2.aspx (http://gr-research.com/v-2.aspx) Danny has the drivers in stock and they can be made with a narrower baffle which would be an even better look. It substantially lowers the overall cost which would be appealing for many who have more limited budgets...
:popcorn:
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Interesting idea.
Not sure the V2 bass section can go up high enough in frequency to crossover to the Neo10's. A good question for Danny.
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Rich, you used to own the Super Vs correct?
How do these compare in your opinion, does the top end compete with the Super V and can they play as loud?
This design seems like a good compromise without going all out for the Super 7s which have a lot more costs involved.
Thanks for your input,
Greg
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Greg,
Yes, I owned the Super-V's.
The Monoliths will not play as loud as the Super-V's. However depending on the room size will play plenty loud for any music I have tried. The bass section is essentially the same, so will go as low and loud. It really is a full audio bandwidth speaker.
The difference to me is The Monoliths have wider dispersion than I remember the Super-V's having due to the narrower baffle. Also the planars have a very coherent sound that I like more than the Super-V's coax.
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Thanks Rich,
that's exactly what I was wanting to know. My room is 20'x30'x10' so is pretty good size. The Super Vs go as loud as I want but was wondering about the upper section on your speakers.
I still haven't had a chance to hear any of the Neo speakers yet. I have a feeling I would really like them from what people have said.
Good luck on your projects, I have enjoyed following this thread.
Greg
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Just in from Jay and the finishing folks.
The Monoliths planar open baffle top in Agean Blue! :D
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185161)
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Just in from Jay and the finishing folks.
The Monoliths planar open baffle top in Agean Blue! :D
Wow! :thumb:
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The modular servo subs and HX300 amp cabinets are finished and ready to get the drivers, amps and wiring installed.
Also got a nice front picture of the open baffle top before Jay packed them and now on the way.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185453)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185454)
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Should be a great combo at the show Rich. Looking forward to seeing a photo with the Monoliths on top of the sub cabinets soon :beer:
jay
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Servo subs are completed and ready to test again after the reassembly.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185510)
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The Monoliths in final form for CAF2018.
System is wired and getting ready to do some listening.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185602)
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The Monoliths in final form for CAF2018.
System is wired and getting ready to do some listening.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185602)
They are very nice looking speakers - great painting work from the looks of it!
Looking forward to listening impressions Rich!
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SoCalWJS,
The best way for me to describe The Monoliths sound is that they are like a really good pair of planar headphones with real low frequency response you feel.
Having response down to below 20Hz really adds to the sense of music in a venue.
Since you have the S-7's, which I have heard as well, reminds me of a small version of those.
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Rich, looking good! You should try doing some amp-swapping with those speakers. I find the Neo drivers really, really let different amps shine. From great SS amps to great tube amps, they all sound great with those drivers.
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Tyson,
Thanks!
Will be trying another pair of SS amps soon. Even with the two Parasound Zamp v.3's they sound really good! :D
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Getting time on the dspMusikLCD 2x8, Parasound Halo A23 stereo amps with The Monoliths to get ready for CAF2018.
Best part is listening to some music!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=185785)
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Avoosl came over today for a listening session before pack-up of The Monoliths for CAF2018.
Time to get it all packed up for the show!
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Have a great demo, Rich! And have some fun too. Wish I were there (to quote a famous band).
Jake
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JakeJ,
Thanks! Will do! :D
Best,
Rich
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CAF2018 setup day is done and system is ready for Day1 of the show.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186248)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186249)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186250)
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It's finally show time. Looking good Rich . :thumb:
Enjoy !!
jay
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@Hal, Good luck with the show. They look great.
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Any feedback on the sound, from attendees?
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agreed, inquiring minds want to know
jay
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Day 1 is complete and had really nice comments from listeners.
Hopefully some that attended will comment.
Biggest comment is open baffle bass is not supposed to work. Not true in the HAL room! Open baffle servo subs rule! :D
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Day 1 is complete and had really nice comments from listeners.
Hopefully some that attended will comment.
Biggest comment is open baffle bass is not supposed to work. Not true in the HAL room! Open baffle servo subs rule! :D
Open baffle bass is the best... 8)
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I was able to attend and really enjoyed this setup. Great deep bass and beautiful treble. The strums of acoustic guitar had a nice amount of air around them. Really tremendous value compared to other systems at the show.
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HiGHFLYiN9,
Thanks for stopping by and giving the system a listen. Glad you enjoyed it!
Here is Greg Weaver's show report on EnjoyTheMusic.com of CAF2018 with The Monoliths system.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/Capital_Audiofest_2018/page3.htm
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Very nice review on Audio Head by Eric Franklin Shook of the HAL room at CAF2018 by Eric Franklin Shook.
https://audio-head.com/hollis-audio-labs-caf-2018/
Thanks to Kemper Holt for letting me know about the review.
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Two very nice pictures of the HAL room at CAF2018 by Paul Elliot.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188642)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188643)
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I have had enquiries about The Monoliths just selling the upper section kits.
This is possible if the customer already has the two 2x12 OB servo subs. The system is designed to use those with the dspMusikLCD 2x8 digital crossover and DAC's to drive the planar open baffle tops.
Contact me for details and pricing.
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A review by Part-Time Audiophile of the HAL CAF2018 setup.
https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2018/11/04/caf-2018-must-see-rooms-saturday/
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=188643)
I wanted that table.
:(
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Another show report from CAF2018 by TNT-Audio about the HAL demo room. The info is about 1/2 way down the page.
Thanks to KLH007 for spotting it and sending the link.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/shows/capital_audiofest18_e.html
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Have another pair of the open baffle planar section of The Monoliths from Jay arriving tomorrow. This pair when built will have the GR-NEO3 tweeters like the pair at AXPONA 2019.
The first pair of The Monoliths from CAF2018 have the BG NEO3-PDR tweeters installed.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=195037)
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Just to clarify some points.
The Monoliths are a different kit to the GR-Research Super Mini speakers.
The Monoliths kit comes with a dspMusikLCD or dspNexus digital crossover system and the parts needed to build the speaker system. This kit is not sold as partial pieces.
For the Super Mini passive crossover speakers, please talk to Danny at GR-Research and he will get you what you need.
Thank you for reading.
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Building a new pair of OB planar baffles from captainhemo to install the GR-NEO3 tweeters for comparison to the BG NEO3-PDR in the original pair of The Monoliths that are here.
Glue-up has begun.
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The Monoliths planar baffle glued and drying.
Started on the second baffle glue-up.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197180)
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Second planar baffle glued and drying until tomorrow.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197182)
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Completed planar baffles ready for wiring and testing with the dspMusikLCD system.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197190)
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Looking good Rich.
Will be interesting to compare the tweeters
jay
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Thanks Jay!
They are now wired and ready for some testing and listening.
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Just completed The Monoliths system demo, so back to new tweeter testing.
Checked the wiring to the planar drivers and the DC resistances look correct. Now to get them installed.
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Have the latest pair of planar baffles with the GR-NEO3's and BG NEO10's setup on the 2x12 OB subs for listening.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=197273)
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Any noteworthy differences compared to what you were using?
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Going to put some hours on them first to see.
Heard the planars change during AXPONA2019 when they were new like these. Will see in a few days how they are doing.
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One advantage of having a dspMusik crossover is that with speakers like The Monoliths, you can place the planar tops and servo subs in different positions in the room and use time delay to adjust for the distance offsets.
This way if you get better bass response with the subs in different positions than the planar mains, it can be compensated.
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Nice! 👍
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Experimenting with The Monoliths and separating the planar baffle from the subs.
Put the subs back 3' from the rear wall and moved the planar tops on stands closer to the listening position. I am setup in my larger listening room, so using 1/2 of the 6x12's (3x12) with the HX300-12OB servo amps.
The dspMusik 2x8 is being used to compensate for both the distance offset and SPL drop from the subs since the two pieces are in different locations in the listening room.
This is working really well! :D
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I still have stock of new BG NEO10 and GR-NEO3 planar drivers for making The Monoliths speakers as kits or build speakers.
PM me for more information.
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SoCalWJS,
The best way for me to describe The Monoliths sound is that they are like a really good pair of planar headphones with real low frequency response you feel.
Having response down to below 20Hz really adds to the sense of music in a venue.
Since you have the S-7's, which I have heard as well, reminds me of a small version of those.
Hello,
I have 2 questionsl on these speakers, great work BTW.
How does the planar top pane perform compared to the Otica MTM ?
Also, can you reuse the Parts (drivers, and crossovers) to upgrade to a Super 7 later down the road ?
Thanks,
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Zitoun,
Thanks!
I have not heard the Otica MTM to comment on differences in sound.
The BG NEO10 and GR Neo3 planars are the same as the drivers used in the Super 7.
The Monoliths use the 16 Ohm OB version of the 12" servo subs with Rythmik HX300-12OB servo amps with the 2x12's. I believe the Super 7's use the Rythmik A370PEQ and 8 Ohm OB drivers. The Monoliths with the DSP crossover need a balanced input servo amp.
The dspMusik or dspNexus can be reused in the system for other speakers digital crossovers, but I would have to develop a Super 7 crossover, and I do not have them to measure to do the digital design.
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Zitoun,
Thanks!
I have not heard the Otica MTM to comment on differences in sound.
The BG NEO10 and GR Neo3 planars are the same as the drivers used in the Super 7.
The Monoliths use the 16 Ohm OB version of the 12" servo subs with Rythmik HX300-12OB servo amps with the 2x12's. I believe the Super 7's use the Rythmik A370PEQ and 8 Ohm OB drivers. The Monoliths with the DSP crossover need a balanced input servo amp.
The dspMusik or dspNexus can be reused in the system for other speakers digital crossovers, but I would have to develop a Super 7 crossover, and I do not have them to measure to do the digital design.
Thanks for all the very detailed answer,do you think itMs possible to build a monolith version with subs compatible with a futur upgrade to a Super 7, and could you use the part from the crossover to reourpose the top panel ?
Also what is the cost of the top panel parts and flat pack ?
Thanks
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Zitoun,
This is a full 3-way active kit version of The Monoliths speaker system with a DSP active crossover. There are no passive crossovers. I do offer a fully built version of the speaker system as well with the DSP crossover.
I do not sell the open baffle flat packs and planar drivers separately.
I do not have the 8 ohm version servo drivers or A370PEQ servo amp here to use for a different crossover development, so the kit is as explained in the earlier post.
I suggest you just start with the GR Research passive Super Mini system and upgrade later to Super 7's planar tops on the 2x12's since they are both passive crossover designs. Danny can tell you if the passive crossover parts from Super Mini's can be used later with the Super 7's.