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Title: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 28 Jun 2007, 03:36 pm
Edit: 7-6-07 I have just begun to use the SS DAC sent strait to my subwoofer with the Tube DAC staying as before sent to the preamp/amp for my main speakers. 

The overall presentation quality increased easily by 30%+   and it was fantastic before (in addition to what one would expect here surprisingly the tone got even better, stage got deeper.........

Edit: 6-30-07 Conclusions  :thumb: Tube DAC only-stock w good ICs - new arrivers can save going thru the pages of dribble.  (below assume recordings of good quality)

PRAT/Tone/Musicality/Stage/air/detail/imaging are all excellent IMO

They all fit together well none stick out, very organic and whole smooth slightly warmth-slight.
Nice body to images, not thin. Bass is very good textured tight with great impact- definitely feel this part with this device.  Dynamics and speed are very good.  Like it with all types of music thus far does classical well, easily separates, defines well with body and tone and good depth.  Very engaging for me takes me into the music easily, I can move around and focus on separate parts and quickly be sucked right back into the whole presentation.  Strangely still being very aware of the indivual parts but completely absorbed by the whole tune.  It’s a wonderful thing, probably my favorite.  So excellent detail, without loosing body, nor soul.

Definitely a foot taper-hell a body mover, makes the orginal Birdland sound kind of operating room clinical and grainy.  I never moved this much listening while sitting down, I love the thing and really have no desire to hear the Altmann or Promi tube DAC.  But that’s just me I am not one to enjoy comparing these things, some do some don’t.  Not right or wrong.

A tiny bit bright initially – very tiny but still there, using stock tubes on board, a ton of options, there- something I am really attracted to.  various tubes/various dampers/ even a 6N1P option for moving away from 6922s, if one likes.  Now I still have not run the SS DAC to the sub, so there is more fun to be had.  There is a tubed linestage as part of the devise.  So $$ bang is really way off the scale.  From a sound purist point I was worried about having all this in 1 box, not now notta.

So my 2 cent if yours is a recent (1-2 yrs old) well regarded DAC Paradisia / Stello / Lavry / Altmann / Benchmark DAC 60 w mods and all the ones I did not mention and you feel your not getting what you want by all means check this thing out!  Do not hesitate, it should fair quite well with the others, may even blow your mind.  I really can’t imagine anyone not loving this thing IMS and room.  On the other hand if your basically happy I’d work on room treatments that will give you a major return on your effort especially DIY.   With the quality level of today’s DAC crop a lateral move seems a fairly low return- but that’s just my opinion and I am not a DAC compare guy.  I have listened to the top Levinson stuff at our High End dealer here and I don’t feel I am missing squat, for what that’s worth. 

If your DAC is 2 generations old, your brains should fall out and I would say definitely update.  Assuming we are all referring to 700.-1,500. pieces.  4-8,000. stuff I got no clue but this piece makes me think just how much better can it get and do I even care not really, no!  I love this piece, a great choice for me. Onward to possible AC regeneration and isolating the Stock SB from the DAC.

I am glad I got it instead of the Altmann (because I strongly wanted tubes in my DAC, and would have always been curious) or Promi tube DAC (a way off) even not hearing them - no problem- I do not flip stuff, if it thrills me, I like to get back to working on the whole of the parts instead of staying in this one area.   I am also thrilled with the option of running the SS DAC to my sub, that’s more than cool, should pay max benefits.  So no matter how good the Altmann or another may be - this thing has incredible chops and tone for a fantastic price, I could not resists its charms.  The bass now is already stellar.  Listening to Kodo, with very large multiple drums is sublime, yeah scary good now I see the guys swinging sticks moving about, visceral is an understatement.  Even the pieces that I had not listened too much before sucked me in, I was in awe- I need not look any further.  So I hope this is helpful, that’s as clear as I can speak of it.  Some of you guys size this stuff up so eloquently and quickly I am amazed.

Forgot midrange yes full rich w texture and detail, no complaint, midrange is not a negotiable part of a presentation for me.  :D


beginning of first post:

:D  Just received this unit, plan to do a review here, for those who may be interested. 

Feel free to pester me if you do not see any info in a week.  Many of the items I have added/changed that I have been very pleased with never have gotten a separate post.
Although I had every intention to do so, the next tweek or change detoured such.

My reference point will be the Birdland Odeon Lite DAC (circa 2000) an upsampler.
Very well rec at the time, reviews of such are easy to find.  I am not at all disappointed with it and feel I have my system pretty dialed in. 

But you know..... :scratch:, well I wonder.  I have considered the Altmann NOS, Promitheus Tube NOS DAC, Paradisia NOS tubed DAC, and the Lite DAC 60 with 1st level mods also.  These I have not personally heard just the commentary on such seemed to be ones that would suit my fancy.  So studying the reviews of the Birdland would be your best bet to get a window on my opinion of the Monarchy.  Having that context should help alot.

Anyway this is a oversampler in the traditional sense using dual PCM 1704's and tube out, it also has a SS DAC sans the tubes for running strait to a sub.  Lastly a tubed linestage.  I will try and coverage ea. config as my system allows.  I am skeptical but hopefull, Bound for Sound loves this DAC, Lynn Olson and a few other quite serious people.   but different ears, different systems and then of course synergy all take their toll in evaluation. :scratch:
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 28 Jun 2007, 03:42 pm
Hope it works out for you....looks good in the photo's. 8)

(http://gon5.audiogon.com/i/c/f/1178147834.jpg)
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: mcullinan on 28 Jun 2007, 03:48 pm
Id like to know... if its really good give it 3 thumbs up... it looks cool. I have a Lavry DA-10 but always looking :)
Mike
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ted_b on 28 Jun 2007, 04:18 pm
Great, thanks!  I am MOST interested in hearing your comments about the tube DAC stage, but it'll be nice info to hear what you say about tube vs ss.  The line stage is only average, most reviews state, but who cares. CCPoon is the real deal.  Two things would make this DAC a category killer (it it isn't already)...24/96 and I2S.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 28 Jun 2007, 04:38 pm
I have the M24.....Amperex 6dj8's or 7308's take the DAC up a good notch over the stock tubes.

My setup: Kinergetics transport>>Monarchy M24 DAC>>Audioprism Mantissa tubed preamp>>Rogue Audio tubed monos>>Apogee Duetta Signatures (or) Apogee Minigrands.


I have not tried the tubed preamp section in mine...something I guess I should do one day.


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 28 Jun 2007, 08:32 pm
OK she is cranked up and rolling for a few hours now, so we will see. sound's very good and smooth from the next room.   

I bought it cause of the Tube DAC thats my primary interest in the piece.
so I will focus on that first. to keep it simple.

I will say the reviews of the unit the M24, cover a unit that uses PCM63 and CC Poon changed the design slightly when going to the PCM 1704s, I believe there is an Op amp in the DAC now as before there was not, this bothered me a little.  But after talking to him on the phone and learning about a SS DAC I could pump strait to the sub I was pretty intrigued with the added possinblities of the NM rather than the M version still available.  the M strait from him is 980.  the NM is 1080.  both still available.

I poked enough questions about the sound of the tube DAC in the NM vs the M and came away feeling his take was why you asking stuppid question s this much better.  Seriously he feels the tube DAC is just as good as the tube DAC in the M. 

Before I spent the last 3 months on this forum I would have just let her rip but Noooooooooooooo  I had to study the hell out of the board with a magnifing glass for an hour :lol:

any way I see 2 PCM 1704s on the tube DAC side and 2 AD811ANs which I believe he told me are his choice of op amps.  after talking to him, I fiqure he de man. when asking questions I got the feeling he was telling me are you nuts of course this is better than the M version.  so his reputation had me buy this verses the M.

on the SS side I see 1 PCM1704E   and 1 CS8414

my unit has 2-JAN Sylvania on the Tube DAC and 2-JAN Phillips on the Linestage side, so they are staying put at least to next week, ordering a few different ones like soon.
these ofcourse are not bad at all, but the beuaty of this piece is options as the Paradisia has but its a real tube DAC.

   
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 28 Jun 2007, 08:34 pm
I have the M24.....Amperex 6dj8's or 7308's take the DAC up a good notch over the stock tubes.

My setup: Kinergetics transport>>Monarchy M24 DAC>>Audioprism Mantissa tubed preamp>>Rogue Audio tubed monos>>Apogee Duetta Signatures (or) Apogee Minigrands.


I have not tried the tubed preamp section in mine...something I guess I should do one day.

Dave

Hi Dave

  :D what preceded your M24 DAC? any comments on differences between older one and your M24?

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 28 Jun 2007, 08:57 pm
Great, thanks!  I am MOST interested in hearing your comments about the tube DAC stage, but it'll be nice info to hear what you say about tube vs ss.  The line stage is only average, most reviews state, but who cares. CCPoon is the real deal.  Two things would make this DAC a category killer (it it isn't already)...24/96 and I2S.

I believe this one is 24/96 cause of the PCM1704, the PCM63 is a 20 bit, not that from what I 've read would alone make it better but his implimination and design skills might.

he was informative and fun to talk to, super responsive with emails and such, oh yeah the board in this thing is thick makes my Jolida board seem very thin which it is in most opinions.  its easily 3/16" + very ridgid, the insides are impressive, clean, its a heavy piece.  front plate is 3/8"

I do not know if it tops the Altmann but it is a good looking piece I usally could care less but its nice to have that.  reminds me of my 20+ lb CD960, in fact its really built stronger than that piece - this thing when you pick it up "says I got serious asperations" the chassis is quite thick I do not know if thats any diff than the lite DAC 50 chassy.
but its seems clear to me CC Poon is the complete designer of this piece the Lite DAC stuff is mostly a box he uses.     
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 29 Jun 2007, 02:51 am

New with 2-4 hours on it, the NM24 (2007) so completely out does the Birdland (2000) in every area it is insane, so for me its a ridiculous upgrade no subltle changes here massive across the board.  Problem is My DAC the Odeon, was replaced by one called an Ag, and then they offered a clock upgrade for that, next they did a big modular DAC that had open ways of being inifinitly upgradeable for new clocks yada yada yada.  So their present best would be properly compared to the Bel Canto 3.  So really its a grossly unfair comparison mine being 2-3 gens old.

As a tube DAC it still easyily kicks my SS Birdland's ass in bass. so I would not refer to it as bass shy or inarticulate there- good recordings as always.  Now I have 5, 17"x54" bass traps and at the end of Holst: The Planets (Telarc) on Mars there is this fantastic cresendo with incredible bass - quite well definied with my Birdland, with the NM 24 the differnce was almost scarey still extremely well definied but my sofa literally felt like the SOB was gonna lift of the ground and take off like a jet.   :o :drool: its was awesome.

really nothing is missing with this DAC, got to maybe 3 ref songs got lost in Jorma K's Blue Country Heart.  fantastic if you like his stuff the detail and imediacy delv by the DAC was shocking compared to the SS Birdland.  Then I went back to my ref stuff and new in 2-3 songs it was over but of course had to go for all 10-15+, just in case I was deluded.

DAC is fast, PRAT are super, I looked like that cat in Set Man's logo but with an added sideways boggie going full tilt, Birdland rocked me but this thing is a whole different animal very real very engaging. really nothing is missing here the Bird also seemed grainy in comparison to this baby.  and its just getting warmed up no 200 hrs break in just enjoy. I would call it very smooth and musical. the high end even brand new is really nice.  Only possible complaint is its a tiny touch brite, but Its been on maybe 6-7 hrs.

So thats it for now, the bass has more than proved its metal.  So I am probably going to run the SS DAC strait to the sub starting like now (although I will hate to have to get out the Db meter and all that crap) and let the tube DAC run the main speakers on up.  I get to run em both at the same time now thats what I call very cool and progressive on CC Poon's part.  that seems quite out of the box.

Now the Birland has a DIY cord on it that easily beat the old stock cord, the DIY job openned up that DAC considerabily.  So for comparison I am just using a 3x14 SJT Volex on the NM24 and will have to make myself a new one.  Will the rewards be as big, probably -----  so that will probably just show up how far removed the Birdland s talents are from this or most contempory DACs of good design.  Read insanely far behind, despite its over the top comparisons to 2-3,000. DAC s in its day.  I have worked extremely hard the last 3 months to get lots of detail from my system and have done so.  and I have 1st reflect points treated and so on.  so this DAC is in an enviroment that should definitly show its prowess.  SO stock tubes stock cord(18ga.) I used a 14ga. Volex, no foot changes spec boards pods spikes or Halos- so I can only begin to imagine whats coming.

Now the problem here is many of you guys have DACs that are 1-2 years old and I have no way of say comparing a BenchmarK, Larvy, Paradisia, or Altmann.   I can say tonight at least I can't imagine anyone selling this thing if it sounds like it does IMR IMS.  I could easily just forget Nicks tube DAC and the Altmann and start looking at DAC threads in 2+ or more years.  So I hope this helps you guys help to sort thru your research better.

Talked to CC Poon again on the phone this NM24 has a formal rev do out in August, another nice side note is there are chips I can change on the board so the DAC can accept 6N1P tubes if I chose.   So more flexibility is really nice.  he really wants me to sit tight and let the JAN tubes have their day in the sun for 30 days.. he says he gets guys changing chips on the board before the unit is even broken in and they never even get a chance to hear his design stretch its legs.  so I am gonna try to relax and not start tube swapping for at least 30 days and let me and her get well aquainted first.

but Halos, footers, vibrapods, spikes, boards, are all fair game as well as a good PC cord.
more as she gets off the training wheels. Oh its playing at 44k and being feed by a stock SB3 for now. stereovox HDVX.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Jon L on 29 Jun 2007, 04:22 am
Did you compare the tube output vs. SS output?

Did Mr. Poon mention if his SS output is just an op-amp output stage or discrete output stage? 
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 29 Jun 2007, 07:18 am
Hi Jon

easy enough I will check the SS dac sound vs the tube dac for the whole deal before I go off to SS dac to subwoofer town.

opamp stage or discrete on the SS dac I do not know, he would tell you if you call him.
or if there is something I can see on the board thats a giveawey let me know what to look for.

I would guess the better of the 2 if he could pull it off at that price, descrete output stage would be better I am guessing?
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Big Red Machine on 29 Jun 2007, 12:21 pm
This unit can be a standalone preamp also can't it?  And you can route the DAC output back thru itself into the preamp section as well?
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 29 Jun 2007, 02:18 pm
I have the M24.....Amperex 6dj8's or 7308's take the DAC up a good notch over the stock tubes.

My setup: Kinergetics transport>>Monarchy M24 DAC>>Audioprism Mantissa tubed preamp>>Rogue Audio tubed monos>>Apogee Duetta Signatures (or) Apogee Minigrands.


I have not tried the tubed preamp section in mine...something I guess I should do one day.

Dave

Hi Dave

  :D what preceded your M24 DAC? any comments on differences between older one and your M24?





I was using an upgraded Counterpoint DA-10A DAC...I liked it a lot. The tubes that come with the Monarchy are fairly high quality, the DAC sounds very good out of the box.


You said: "Only possible complaint is its a tiny touch brite"......I detected that same "tiny touch"

The DAC uses the same type tubes as my preamp, so...I had a few extra tubes I could  try. A pair of Amperex 6dj8's (Holland)... I use as a backup tube in my preamp was installed. That "tiny touch brite"......all gone!


Note: I spoke to someone else regarding tube rolling in the DAC...the tubes he suggested just happened to be another pair I had on hand...I tried them, they didn't do it for me at all (to be honest, I've never been impressed with these tubes anyway).


I look forward to your thoughts as you get to know your Monarchy a little better....feed it lots of music!


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 29 Jun 2007, 02:49 pm
This unit can be a standalone preamp also can't it?  And you can route the DAC output back thru itself into the preamp section as well?

yes definitly :D
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Big Red Machine on 29 Jun 2007, 03:07 pm
Just missed one on Agon.  Considered this unit earlier in the spring but had no feedback on its performance.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 29 Jun 2007, 03:18 pm
Quote
The DAC uses the same type tubes as my preamp, so...I had a few extra tubes I could  try. A pair of Amperex 6dj8's (Holland)... I use as a backup tube in my preamp was installed. That "tiny touch brite"......all gone!


Note: I spoke to someone else regarding tube rolling in the DAC...the tubes he suggested just happened to be another pair I had on hand...I tried them, they didn't do it for me at all (to be honest, I've never been impressed with these tubes anyway).


I look forward to your thoughts as you get to know your Monarchy a little better....feed it lots of music!


Thanks Dave

She seems a very fine DAC indeed, I am reading the same coments about different tubes in this unit one of the reviewers preferred some Ei tubes over some Siemens NOS CC Poon had sent him.  maybe the system senergy thing?  i will definitly put those exact Amperex on my list, but I do want to check out the cheapies first and try various Halos- Herbies has got like 3 choices now for small tubes in his higher line dampers.

also the option of a chip switch from Monarchy will give me a choice of the 6n1ps, do not know if the M24 can use the chip I know the architecture of the piece is changed slightly.

my amps integrated so the linestage for me is redundant, I did read 2 reviews where they were shocked at the abilities of the stage, give her a shot for gigles, let us know.
I was not crazy about a DAC with the added bonus devices but have no compliants.

Lynn Oslon thinks it is a very serious pre if used with a TVC or similar device- http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue25/monarchy_m24.htm
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 29 Jun 2007, 03:45 pm
Just missed one on Agon.  Considered this unit earlier in the spring but had no feedback on its performance.

i thought I saw an M24 used myself for about 875. recently.  i believe Monarchy has a 15% restock fee if returned?  its hard to find much comentary from individual users 2 guys over on AA love it, it was more of a gut thing for me but I studied the crap out of the mag reviews online 2-3 4 times.  and the backgrounds of the users especially in the non comercial rags were impressive to me, so a dice roll.

really it came to Altmann more expensive lots of fans but a kinda closed loop for me, wanted some tuning options my last DAC was SS.  so the other choice for me was Promi Tube DAC NOS w trannies, but its aways off still in future.  i am not into flipping gear i may try the Promi in a yr or so, would be an easy resell on AC big fan club Nick has.

i think we are in an era where many of the well recieved DACs are all pretty serious performers-contenders  ideally I would love to have an Altmann, a Promi Tube DAC and the M24 each for about 3 months and then flip 2 of them.  not my thing and expensive.

you would thinjk the m24 would have way more freedback from the personal users consicering the passion of 2-3 reviews still using the piece. :scratch:

but finding alot of feeb back on his early DACs is also guite hard great mag revs a few serious fans scattered around but not enough to give one a strong feeling say as the Paradisia, so maybe his stuff just stays below the radar for most people - I barely knew of it in the past.  all the heat was on Bel Canto and 3-4 others in the 700-1500 range.

edit

I do know many people who have serious gear read the forums but rarely ever post, I just bought a used TVC from a guy who has a Thor pre-amp, loves the TVC reordering one w C Core trannies.
I as others get something or tweak something sounds great make lots of notes and mean to post but as time passes I am on to the next thing.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 29 Jun 2007, 08:10 pm
I hang out sometimes at the Apogee speaker users forum. One of our members has a ladyfriend who plays violin in a world class orchestra. He is also a reviewer for one of the well known online audio sites....can't recall which one though at the moment.

While complaining in a thread at that forum, that I thought most violin recordings were poor-very poor, ie..... either to strident, or somewhat fuzzy with lack of focus on the true beauty of the instrument....I reasoned that it must be a very hard instrument to capture, as a recording.

It was at this time that he mentioned his ladyfriend, and how many times he had gone to listen to her live.....he suggested a couple of violin recordings I should pick up....and I did.


After listening to a couple of these recordings, which were as good as he had said they were....I came to the conclusion that this guy understood exactly what I wanted.....violin recordings with nearly perfect tone.


Around a year or so latter, he mentioned to someone in a thread that he had just ordered a Monarchy M24...his latter posts confirmed what I'd hoped.....a toe tapping musical component, and with beautiful tone.


For me, components in my system, must also have nearly perfect tone....the Monarchy is one of those components. The component must also be musical....I have not been an audiophile for around 15 years,  (I'm well out of "that" audio stage)....the Monarchy is very musical.


I don't know much about the other DAC's you have mentioned....I've read good things, mostly here at this forum site though. Always good to listen for yourself, and confirm that the other persons idea of "near perfect sound"... conforms with yours...sounds like you understand that.


Dave













Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ted_b on 29 Jun 2007, 08:31 pm
Dave,
Not to hijack, but mind sharing those good violin recordings?  It's always good to hear great musical tone, and  I'm sure 1000a would love to hear it through his NM24!   :thumb:
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 29 Jun 2007, 09:16 pm
Dave,
Not to hijack, but mind sharing those good violin recordings?  It's always good to hear great musical tone, and  I'm sure 1000a would love to hear it through his NM24!   :thumb:


Sure....start here: these are the first two I picked up

http://www.amazon.com/Britten-Walton-Violin-Concertos-Vengerov/dp/B00008XRSW/ref=sr_1_1/103-7338922-2796657?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183150695&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Britten-Walton-Violin-Concertos-Vengerov/dp/B00008XRSW/ref=sr_1_1/103-7338922-2796657?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1183150695&sr=1-1)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005NPK5/ref=wl_it_dp/103-7338922-2796657?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1DOUEFF72TT7R&colid=2KWJS6EBB37OL (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005NPK5/ref=wl_it_dp/103-7338922-2796657?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1DOUEFF72TT7R&colid=2KWJS6EBB37OL)


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 30 Jun 2007, 12:06 am
Dave

Quote
Around a year or so latter, he mentioned to someone in a thread that he had just ordered a Monarchy M24...his latter posts confirmed what I'd hoped.....a toe tapping musical component, and with beautiful tone.


For me, components in my system, must also have nearly perfect tone....the Monarchy is one of those components. The component must also be musical....I have not been an audiophile for around 15 years,  (I'm well out of "that" audio stage)....the Monarchy is very musical.

yeah in spades as I finally went to sleep last night, the word tone popped into my head, very nice and I have never moved so much in the sweet spot in my life, really throughly engaging piece. Its almost as if - strange but music slows down and I can clearly enjoy a bass line, drum crack I mean way deeper clearer image of that stuff than the Bird while a whole band is going and a moment or 2 later be sweapt up into the whole thing at one time.  open thoughts - just from the shear beauty of the presentation of the single parts
I am thrust back into the whole- I guess each area is done so equally well so matched  so detailed and clear that moving between listening to just bass and the whole presentation is seamless.   the bird still had alot of that also, but the more resolving I made my stereo the more she seemed a little anyalitical?  this has an incredible window in to the music but that view never takes anything from the whole image. 

Dave thanks so much for posting more feedback many people have a strong interest in the piece but its the personal feedback they need no matter the mag reviews. its wounderful to hear you chime in.

maybe what makes it so engaging to me, is just exactly that Tone properly described and delvered on time. its really hard to be a responsible adult and get stuff done with this piece in my house 

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: mcullinan on 30 Jun 2007, 12:21 am
i would like to know how it compares to my Lavry, since I feel it is the ultimate in musicality... its all so subjective though.
Mike
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 30 Jun 2007, 12:38 am
Hi Mike

that is a problem without being able to listen to 2 pieces in the same system (ideally our own)  for me the closest audio rave kinda thing is 4 hours away minimum.

so I just goota study alot try and see if the review people seam anything like me in their ideas about the delivery of music..  I have done no reading on the Lavry if shes doing the trick and a recent design I do not know if you would do any better with this one.

we are all different in our feeling about the music and then more complicated our hearing is never the same ( i new a guy who hated treble period maybe his sensitivity to such was far different than most) as the next person, then wire that to the brains different -  there are so many DACs all mostly very good of recent design, its probably key to just find one that clicks with the individual and know the next one is probably also very nice but just different. no one being the last word on any of it. 
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 30 Jun 2007, 12:58 am
Mike

if pressed I have spent alot of time reading up on the Paradisia, I would think that crowd of fans would love the NM24, this piece delvs more info but the similar kind of presnetation. 

i had alot of interest in that piece mainly because of Scott Fallers rev of some speakers (a shoot out thing) on TNT a few years back he described very well how
each presented music.  I purchased said speakrs and tend to like his ideas on delv of music, his ideas seemed to be exactly the kind of thing I was seeking. 

So went he started jumping up and down about the Paradisia hense I listened- I'm guessing M24 is a paradisia++++  I just kinda find the reviewers or members who seem to be on my page after studing their comments and gear and then try to go from there, does not mean I buy the same stuff, but it gives me some guide. and spkrs is a really good place cause they do have a ton to do with a systems presentation.

I hope this is not useless bable.

so you might see how the Lavry peoples feeling line up with the Paradisia crowd and work from there.

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: mcullinan on 30 Jun 2007, 01:14 am
see thats the problem... im off and running, dont realize the limitations of digital technology and or potential effects that design and engineering bring about.. and i end up in Whoville with Cindy Who?(was that her name) though my recent system has grown by leaps, but I fel smaller steps will be next.
I will look into the comparison....
Mike aa
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 30 Jun 2007, 02:21 am
Mike 

another thing that might be considered is a Monarchy 24/96 DIP or a GW labs DSP.
A couple of guys are using them w their Paradisias, which is probably what lead me to this DAC.

since I am finacing my audio dreams read interest rates included, I bought a GW labs DSP to try with my DAC.

if you search these on AA there is a lot of feedback, I only found one guy who did not like em.  basicly they are jitter reducers and provide an isolation point between the SB3 and the DAC.  they also rase the signal to a higher level so the DAC works less hard at getting the info, inside the DSP the signal is reclocked and then sent to the DAC. lots like these things so at first this was my plan to use w my old DAC and before I new it I did both at once.

Most people agree that the better the transport the less affect these things have, the thinking is the highend transports are much better with jitter and have better clocks than the low and middle tansports (mid being 2,500. at least).  So with a few SB guys saying it helped there sound I got one, can not comment until I try it and I am trying to be methodical in this rev, keeping it stock first.

these DSP/DIP s can up sample to 24/96 if one chooses some use it like that others by pass that and just use the jitter reduction/isolation/reclock/and signal bost.  the GW labs DSP claims to completely pitch the old clock info and start from scratch, the monarchy DIP redoes the clocked info w its new clock- so I went GW.

Agon ad 280. (400 normaly) direct from manu. or just keep your eye out used ones do show especially the Monarchy versions he sold tons of em.  many times had for 100-150.
he evidently sold his design to the one guy GW and I think GW has gone farther with it better transformers and so on, he also uses the chip differently so he can do adiff. job w the clock (toss completely the old info) so they say. :scratch:

monarchy version new is 300/ gw version is 400  but I get the impression better prices are had with a little research- my DAC lists for 1580. but he sells it at 1080. I do not know if thats a promo price or his reg deal.  paradisia guys liked the improvement alot and found em cheap used.

i am guessing the SB being a basic consumer level product any help in this department would be very helpful, I will post- my SB is bone stock.  we will see

so my plan was just to do one of these but i instead made the bank happy and my wallet sad.
one used is a small step w out dumping to much $$, an easy resale people snap em up. 
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Big Red Machine on 30 Jun 2007, 10:27 am
Any gut feel for how much better the new NM (2007) version is from the M (2006) version?
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 30 Jun 2007, 02:23 pm
Quote
Any gut feel for how much better the new NM (2007) version is from the M (2006) version?

I can't call that one, cause I never heard the M24, I did talk to CC Poon being worried the NM24 DAC was not as good in the Tube DAC he assured me it was, I was considering I might buy the older one.  He said he hasn't a/bed em but he is the designer I trust his ear, every generation of his DACs have been an upgrade.

I am guessing they are very similar in sound in the Tube DAC section, slight edge to the NM24, this guy does not go backwards.  Today I am running the SS DAC strait to the sub, and I think thats whats really thrilling him personally.  getting SS controll over the Bass.

when I poked the ques is the old tube one better, he was not pissed but he did seem like of course not - with that I was sold for an extra 100. I get the bass controll w the SS, I really think thats his aim here a hybyrd tube/ss dac via using ea at the same time I am game- we will see

Quote
Did you compare the tube output vs. SS output?

Did Mr. Poon mention if his SS output is just an op-amp output stage or discrete output stage? 

I did compare the SS to the tube DAC last night, I much preferred the Tube DAC it lost no detail to the SS, seemed smoother, fuller - better body for sure.

I imagine it lost some ultimate bass controll to the SS but the Tube DAC was not weak there anyway. gladly swap a little bass controll for the gains of the tube DAC.

Tube DAC did seem a little louder might be slightly higher output?  vol controll was not moved.

SS DAC, now use your grain of salt hear, seemed-to me to have less air and slightly narrower stage-but very slight.  deepth of stage the same.  keep in mind I am still using a volex cord nothing fancey the BIrd had a good cord, the stage of the NM24 equals it w a volex in the sound stage - I hope it will be even bigger as I do a good cord.

that said on Homeless from Graceland- it was before w Bird and still w NM24 very wide passes outside the cabinets and very deep.  spkrs are 34" off backwall to the spkr plane, 8' apart.  same qualities in the first track on Buena Vista Social Club very large stage.
so this might be something to check.  YMMV, I got room treatments ect.

as for op amp or discrete out on the SS I'd have to ask him, have not as of yet.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 1 Jul 2007, 09:29 am
So my conclusions :thumb:
Tube DAC only, stock w good ICs.  (below assume recordings of good quality)

PRAT/Tone/Musicality/Stage/air/detail/imaging are all excellent IMO

They all fit together well none stick out, very organic and whole, smooth slightly warm-slight.  Nice body to images, not thin. Bass is very good textured tight with great impact- definitely feel this part with this device.  Dynamics and speed are very good.  Like it with all types of music thus far does classical well, easily separates, defines well with body and tone and good depth.  Very engaging for me takes me into the music easily, I can move around and focus on separate parts and quickly be sucked right back into the whole presentation.  Strangely still being very aware of the indivual parts but completely absorbed by the whole tune.  It’s a wonderful thing, probably my favorite.  So excellent detail, without loosing body, nor soul.

Definitely a foot taper-hell a body mover, makes the orginal Birdland sound kind of operating room clinical and grainy.  I never moved this much listening while sitting down, I love the thing and really have no desire to hear the Altmann or Promi tube DAC.  But that’s just me I am not one to enjoy comparing these things, some do some don’t.  Not right or wrong.

A tiny bit bright initially – very tiny but still there, using stock tubes on board, a ton of options, there- something I am really attracted to.  various tubes/various dampers/ even a 6N1P option for moving away from 6922s, if one likes.  Now I still have not run the SS DAC to the sub, so there is more fun to be had.  There is a tubed linestage as part of the devise.  So $$ bang is really way off the scale.  From a sound purist point I was worried about having all this in 1 box, not now notta.

So my 2 cent if yours is a recent (1-2 yrs old) well regarded DAC Paradisia / Stello / Lavry / Altmann / Benchmark DAC 60 w mods and all the ones I did not mention and you feel your not getting what you want by all means check this thing out!  Do not hesitate, it should fair quite well with the others, may even blow your mind.  I really can’t imagine anyone not loving this thing IMS and room.  On the other hand if your basically happy I’d work on room treatments that will give you a major return on your effort especially DIY.   With the quality level of today’s DAC crop a lateral move seems a fairly low return- but that’s just my opinion and I am not a DAC compare guy.  I have listened to the top Levinson stuff at our High End dealer here and I don’t feel I am missing squat, for what that’s worth. 

If your DAC is 2 generations old, your brains should fall out and I would say definitely update.  Assuming we are all referring to 700.-1,500. pieces.  4-8,000. stuff I got no clue but this piece makes me think just how much better can it get and do I even care not really, no!  I love this piece, a great choice for me. Onward to possible AC regeneration and isolating the Stock SB from the DAC.

I am glad I got it instead of the Altmann (because I strongly wanted tubes in my DAC, and would have always been curious) or Promi tube DAC (a way off) even not hearing them - no problem- I do not flip stuff, if it thrills me, I like to get back to working on the whole of the parts instead of staying in this one area.   I am also thrilled with the option of running the SS DAC to my sub, that’s more than cool, should pay max benefits.  So no matter how good the Altmann or another may be - this thing has incredible chops and tone for a fantastic price, I could not resists its charms.  The bass now is already stellar.  Listening to Kodo, with very large multiple drums is sublime, yeah scary good now I see the guys swinging sticks moving about, visceral is an understatement.  Even the pieces that I had not listened too much before sucked me in, I was in awe- I need not look any further.  So I hope this is helpful, that’s as clear as I can speak of it.  Some of you guys size this stuff up so eloquently and quickly I am amazed.

Forgot midrange yes full rich w texture and detail, no complaint, midrange is not a negotiable part of a presentation for me.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 6 Jul 2007, 02:03 pm
:D I have just begun to use the SS DAC sent strait to my subwoofer with the Tube DAC staying as before sent to the preamp/amp for my main speakers. 

The overall presentation quality increased easily by 30%+  :drool: and it was fantastic before (in addition to what one would expect here surprisingly the tone got even better, stage got deeper :o and more detail was revealed through out the stage. Staggering improvement infact.  More on this later, but with it set up like this it is scary good.

I really think this is what CC Poon is so excited about and he well should be, the highly regarded M24, has in short time been very seriously improved by its maker.  It is priced so reasonably @ 1080. intro it should not overlooked by anybody, no matter the size of your check book or what ever DAC is causing you too drool.  There are many different ways to skin a cat. This is a big league DAC IMO for sand lot price.

So if you use a tube amp and an active sub, I doubt there is a better DAC out there, its really really good. :D  and I am just starting to get acclimated, no tweaks as of yet.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ted_b on 6 Jul 2007, 02:48 pm
Great find (using both DACs to solve a problem)! 

I may have missed this, but what is your speaker/sub setup, i.e do you have the speakers running full-range and the sub is augmenting them at some rolloff frequency, or do they talk via an active crossover?  If the SS DAC goes straight into the sub, then is your DACs' music source (cd, transport, whatever) the only source you have, (cuz otherwise the sub is not involved in any other signal path)?

Thx

Ted
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 6 Jul 2007, 05:48 pm

I may have missed this, but what is your speaker/sub setup, i.e do you have the speakers running full-range and the sub is augmenting them at some rolloff frequency, or do they talk via an active crossover?

 :D great question, I see-hmm  :scratch:, yes there is a small pitfall :duh:, for vinyl guys.

yes my spkrs are running their full range via my reg pre/amp and sub is augmenting them (powered sub w crossover)

Quote
If the SS DAC goes straight into the sub, then is your DACs' music source (cd, transport, whatever) the only source you have, (cuz otherwise the sub is not involved in any other signal path)?

good point I had not even thought about that yet, my SB3 is my primary source but I do have a TT, so yes the TT will not have the use of the sub now.

although for me digital is my primary source used 90+% of the time, Music Hall MMF & Gran Amp- good basic TT but I am not big invested in a vinyl rig.  its there for my lps I've had for ages and the occassional find.

so as little as I do vinyl I could easily hook sub back to my pre/amp (I have that volume memorized for sub).  but for a big vinyl person this might be a pain?

Quote
Great find (using both DACs to solve a problem)! 


startles me with incredible fast dynamics but retains tons of tone and musicality, with bass I feel in my spine, very fine piece.  although I was not disappointed with the tube DAC as a stand alone - I was more than happy even thrilled with very good punch and dynamics (easily embarising my old Birdland SS DAC)  ....  but placing the SS DAC into the mix has just blown me away.

check Lynn Oslon's review of the earlier M24 Tube DAC (sans the SS DAC)
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue25/monarchy_m24.htm

I am loosely quoting here;.........said it played easily right beside a big high $$$$ TT rig. was not in the least embrassed in that situation.

check Martin De Wulf's review of the M24 (sans the SS DAC) in Bound for Sound
http://www.monarchyaudio.com/

I am loosely quoting here also;........thinks it bettered a Dodson DAC and easily competed and beat in some areas a 17,000. Reimyo CDP, except in ultimate bass.  says the better the transport gets the better the 24 gets, cost no object transports are no problem for the M24.

my thoughts.....

So it does not surprize me CC Poon has come up with this hybyrd Tube DAC/SS DAC he's a great designer and delivers very serious stuff at a dollar point many of us can enjoy. :D 
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 8 Jul 2007, 11:31 pm
I do not have a lot of solo type violin stuff on CD to listen to but some
Yo Yo Ma that's sounds incredibly rich and tuneful,  :drool:, so yard sticks are very nice In a digital world to see if the devices can recreate real instruments well this does easily.

the best thing I have not mentioned about this piece is Rock and Roll sounds great on it, no more ear bleed run me out. not antiseptic at all warm rich and big.

so much of jazz and classical I have has sounded very good in digital, but so many rock CDs particularly older stuff has just not been fun.

Finally Tommy and Quadrophenia can be played very loud and be totally enjoyable, big, rich, warm ,smooth without throwing detail out the window.
no harsh junk in it IMS IMR, love it

no doubt for me anyway my past digital experience has curtailed much of my listening to these songs.  this easily reminds me of my old TT and reel to reel days extremely enjoyable reckless abandon. serious rockin out like the days of old organic, whole and has swept me away.  i have never had this with digital with things like the Who. very very nice :D.

so tons of stuff that was not much fun to listen to before is now quite enjoyable and all the while the classical and jazz has not suffered but in fact improved.  I am not really sure how CC Poon acomplished this  :scratch:
but its there. :drool:

I am now feeding this thing with a Belden 1695A (before it was a Stereovox HDXV).
so that should be considered, I gained tons and scaraficed a little bit. :D

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ted_b on 9 Jul 2007, 12:08 am
Have you removed the GW Labs DSP to understand what the NM24 sounds like without it, or in other words, what the DSP is doing for this level of DAC?  Thx
Ted
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 9 Jul 2007, 05:20 am
Have you removed the GW Labs DSP to understand what the NM24 sounds like without it, or in other words, what the DSP is doing for this level of DAC?  Thx
Ted

Hi Ted

Mostly all of this review up until my last 2 posts have been comments on the DAC without using the DSP.   

I have not done a direct AB with and without it yet but will take the DSP out to double back and see if it has indeed aided or possibly hurt the presentation.  Planned to do so this week, I will post here.   

FWIW I have been running the DSP at 44k (found little tiny differences with it at 96K), but my gut reaction to it was I prefered it at 44K.  The DAC happly accepts either 44 or 96K. 

Supposedly the DSP completely disregards the SB's clock info by the way GW impliments the particular chip responsible for that work, where the Monarchy DIPs use the same chip set up differently take the clock info and then redue it. 

I hope it helped but who knows I wanted to get accustomed to it and then check back.  Bought new on Agon for 280.00   I can say when first placing the DSP inline there was no startling change apparent to me- so the wait should more clearly reveal to me its affect on the sound.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 11 Jul 2007, 08:33 pm
Have you removed the GW Labs DSP to understand what the NM24 sounds like without it, or in other words, what the DSP is doing for this level of DAC?  Thx
Ted

Hi Ted

Forget the GW labs DSP with this DAC if you are using an SB (I can not find any differences with or with out it- my SB is stock) it seems to neither to harm nor enhance the DAC.

with a transport it could very well help but its seems a total waist w this DAC and a stock SB, if I discover anything different I will post.  If this is the case money better spent on a Promi TVC for a serious improvement.

so my comments on the DAC stand no diff in MS with or without DSP.

hope this helps :D

PS there are no BNC connections on this DAC, FWIW

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ted_b on 12 Jul 2007, 01:52 am
Thanks for the feedback on the DSP.  It's always a crapshoot, and in this case, with the SB as transport, maybe the fact that it's a network device and has different/fewer jitter issues that causes the lack of synergy between it and the DSP.  It will be interesting to hear if any other de-jitter solution, like a Monarchy DIP, reveals the same.

As far as spending money on a TVC....I agree...I have a glorious one, the Bent TAP.  Thx
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 12 Jul 2007, 02:17 am
checked out your equipment list, saw that TAP  :drool:

excellent, I just got a 2 month old Ref-2 Promi TVC today, so lots of hours on it already- I love getting something that's already burned in well especially transformer coupled, I guess we'd call it. 

You guys who have all been fortunite enough to get a TVC matched into your systems are in Heaven. Cause now I get to hear the improvements- WOW and even getting staggering results with an integrated amp.

I could pretty easily walk away now and just listen to tunes and check in next year at this time.  I have been studying the current crop of DACs and Nick's offerings now for about 90 days.

All is good except the DSP seems a waist, unless of course I might squeeze some improvement out with ERS and Black Hope Pad.  I may pick CC Poon's brain a little on the topic of his latest DIPs.  The GW -people licenced from him.

FWIW a couple of guys in the Paradisia thread are running the DSP or the DIPs in-line with their DAC and are quite pleased by results.  But that piece is a NOS DAC so who knows.

anyway I am spoiling my ears rotten here lately :drool:
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 14 Jul 2007, 06:55 pm
these very relevant questions popped up on another post- but I'm responding here for other people following this thread now doing this :scratch:

Hi 1000a, I'm just trying to figure out how you are running your system .... there are volume controls on each of the SB3, NM24, TVC and 1000a. I'm guessing you have the SB3 digital output volume at max or disabled and are not using the linestage part of the NM24 (and thus not its volume control). Do you use the TVC as your main attenuator and just have the Jolida's volume set at max to get it out of circuit?

If so, that would mean that the sub (Run directly from the NM24 SS DAC) volume would not change with the main speaker volume. Or, do you leave the TVC at a fixed setting, the Jolida at max, and just use the SB3 volume so that sub and main speaker volume remains equal?  :scratch:

Quote
If so, that would mean that the sub (Run directly from the NM24 SS DAC) volume would not change with the main speaker volume.

Hi DSK
Excellent question-I just did a :scratch: and a :duh: on that specific part of my set up yesterday.  yes this will only work when the main volume stays exactly the same and is already matched to the sub volume with an SPL meter. Obviously impractical. 

I will call CC Poon next week (as I thought he recomended me running the SS DAC strait to the sub/ language confusion?) and ask more questions- he simply could not expect us to (guess) by adjusting the sub vol controll everytime we a changed the primary vol to our system. So on this point I am as lost as anyone and feeling quite  :duh:

Quote
Do you use the TVC as your main attenuator and just have the Jolida's volume set at max to get it out of circuit?

Yes exactly. 
But I will say Promi TVC Nick also said to try the exact reverse
of this some integrates like it better that way- I have not tried that yet- but I am definitly recieving big pay offs from the TVC inline even with an integrated amp- (the input sensitivity on mine is 100K ohm)

Quote
I'm guessing you have the SB3 digital output volume at max or disabled and are not using the linestage part of the NM24 (and thus not its volume control).

Yes, SB3 digi vol disabled (which appears to me the same as max) & I am not using the linestage, correct.

Just for a whirl yesterday I decided I wanted to get some idea of the NM24 linestage (despite the Jolida's pre) having heard Lynn Olson rave about it with a TVC type device and thru that endless journey I began thinking what the hell is going on with this sub set up.

so here we are, I have no idea how CC intends people to use the Tube and SS DAC at the same time?

Quote
Or, do you leave the TVC at a fixed setting, the Jolida at max, and just use the SB3 volume so that sub and main speaker volume remains equal?  :scratch:

this would solve the volume issues, I not tryed this yet but might as well-could be the ticket - I am hoping the benifit of the TVC is the fact its inline and using the SB digi volume would suffice but I have been told to run that disabled by those that are more in the know than me. So :scratch:

any of you electrical / science guys who understand the nature of SB signal levels pro and con to the DAC might chime in? 

I have a DSP that boasts the signal level up considerably when sending it to the DAC, but in my present confiquration its seem to not change the sound quality at all- it may compensate for the lowered SB signal level (I am just not sure I do not loose quality with the SB sending a lower level signal?)  any insight welcome.
 
Clearly I do not want tons of devices in the line, but if compremises lead to better sound so be it.

obviously I wish my amp had a way to by pass its pre stage so I might fully give the NM24 linestage a real whirl - 
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: DSK on 15 Jul 2007, 12:41 am
1000a, thanks for your reply. Yes, please let us know if you hear back from Monarchy. I sent them these questions a few days ago via Audiogon but haven't heard back.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 15 Jul 2007, 04:21 am
Hi DSK

Here is their phone # (650) 873-3055, it was posted on their site so I've been told its OK to list it.   I've called 3 times and have always gotten him on the phone ask for CC Poon.   

Email : monarchy(at)earthlink(dot)net

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: low.pfile on 26 Aug 2007, 05:12 pm
in my house too...

I picked this up directly from the Monarchy office on Friday night and spent a bit of time chatting with Mr Poon. A very nice guy. I imagine those of you who are techies could talk with him for hours - I am new at this level of equipment and am learning so unfortunately most went over my head. I figured the Monarchy nm24 isn't a bad place to start for a first DAC. And I got to listen to some cool Sound Lab electrostatic speakers with my DAC unit.

It wouldn't be fair/useful to give a detailed review at this point. But here are my first impressions: Compared with my onboard Denon AVR4306 DAC: much more detailed. than sound stage (seems to have increased a foot or so,) and the upper and lower bass fuller by a factor of 30%+. Each day I am switching from solid state output to tube output to get a feeling for both. Once I get an RCA to RCA jumper cable I will also add the tube line-stage to the path for evaluation. Anyone recommend who to go to for these? - was thinking BlueJean.

My main curiousity was how much of an improvement will I get using an outboard DAC with a AV Receiver. So soon I will find out. My thinking is that if there is improvement with a receiver this should transfer to any other permutation that my system takes. The great thing about the nm24 is the number of configurations it provides giving a great deal of flexibility!

a couple of pics: .....
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6126/monarchyday11hi0.th.jpg) (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monarchyday11hi0.jpg)  (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7121/monarchyday12zf3.th.jpg) (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monarchyday12zf3.jpg)

enjoy your music, ed


EDIT: my digital source is PCM from iTunes (AIFF format) through optical Toslink directly connected to my Mac
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 18 Sep 2007, 03:47 am
I just purchased one from Audiogon.  I have read all the reviews and hope to experience what I have read.  My friend has a new Benchmark DAC1 that have I found to work quite nicely in my system.  The built in preamp/volume control was a nice extra that I also found to work flawlessly.  In fact so much so that I wish it had a line input for my phono section.  However, it does not, but the Monarchy does :).  I plan to make good use of the entire NM24 and not just the DAC section.  It looks to fill my needs perfectly, assuming that what I receive and experience is what I have read about.



Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: musicman06 on 18 Sep 2007, 07:25 am
Housteau, I'm sure you'll be very satisfied with the NM24, definitely seems to be one of the best bang for the buck DACs on the market today. I haven't compared it in the same system to a Benchmark DAC-1, but most seem to prefer the Monarchy.

Myself I have the Paradisea tube DAC with the Bendix 6385 tube. Very nice and an even better deal IMO.

Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 18 Sep 2007, 10:52 am
I was considering the Paradisea tube DAC along with a new preamp, but along came the Monarchy with both DAC and preamp all in one nice package.  I should get it this Friday.  I feel if worst comes to worst, it can go back up on Audiogon and nothing is lost.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Telstar on 18 Nov 2007, 11:17 pm
I was considering the Paradisea tube DAC along with a new preamp, but along came the Monarchy with both DAC and preamp all in one nice package.  I should get it this Friday.  I feel if worst comes to worst, it can go back up on Audiogon and nothing is lost.

Hi,

How did you compare the MN24 to the Benchmark DAC1?
I'm looking for a DAC (possibly with usb/firewire) input in the sub-1k$ range.

If the MN24 had a usb input, it would be perfect...
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 19 Nov 2007, 03:08 am
I absolutely love it.  I replaced the tubes with 6N1Ps from Svetlana and things got even better.  Even the solid state DAC section sounds pretty darn good.  I would say that is closest to the Benchmark in sound.  The Tube DAC has the sharp focus and other positive qualities of the Benchmark, but adds in a warm realistic texture to the images and sounds that the Benchmark was lacking.  As the unit has broken in it has become steadily better with time.

I also love the preamp section.  I read that a few reviewers were not as enthused with it, but I see and hear no evil on my end.  I have a decent system that is quite revealing and to me the preamp section is much more than just adequate.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Telstar on 19 Nov 2007, 03:22 pm
I absolutely love it.  I replaced the tubes with 6N1Ps from Svetlana and things got even better.  Even the solid state DAC section sounds pretty darn good.  I would say that is closest to the Benchmark in sound.  The Tube DAC has the sharp focus and other positive qualities of the Benchmark, but adds in a warm realistic texture to the images and sounds that the Benchmark was lacking.  As the unit has broken in it has become steadily better with time.

Thank you for the opinion!

Did you audition other DACs? I'm in the mud of choosing something and there are literally dozen of pretty cheap and good products on the market now...
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 19 Nov 2007, 03:52 pm
I absolutely love it.  I replaced the tubes with 6N1Ps from Svetlana and things got even better.  Even the solid state DAC section sounds pretty darn good.  I would say that is closest to the Benchmark in sound.  The Tube DAC has the sharp focus and other positive qualities of the Benchmark, but adds in a warm realistic texture to the images and sounds that the Benchmark was lacking.  As the unit has broken in it has become steadily better with time.

I also love the preamp section.  I read that a few reviewers were not as enthused with it, but I see and hear no evil on my end.  I have a decent system that is quite revealing and to me the preamp section is much more than just adequate.



I have an M24, I agree 100% about the preamp sounding a whole lot better than the reviews let on.

I even put off trying the preamp section out for a very long time after I got my M24...I figured why bother, when I already have a "very good tube preamp"


Getting a DAC and preamp in one package...of this quality, at under $1,000 has to be one of the best buys in audio.


I found out just a couple weeks ago.....that I now have "two" very good tube preamps  :thumb:


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 20 Nov 2007, 04:34 am
I did not audition any other DACs.  However, I did have use of a few very good CD players.  I was completely floored by the performance of the Benchmark against them.  So, when the Monarchy came along and bettered the Benchmark, I considered myself lucky and my search over.  There just comes a point when things become 'spooky' good and a certain synergy happens.

I also recommend the Monarchy DIP Upsampler.  It added to what the NM24 had started.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Val on 20 Nov 2007, 03:59 pm
I recently added a M24 (original model) to my system, which I use as both DAC and preamp, and there was a significant improvement over the direct SB2 to amplifier connection. To me, the Bound for Sound review is exactly on target. I also prefer the coaxial digital over the optical.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: rklein on 20 Nov 2007, 05:33 pm
Hello:

I am very interested in the Monarchy NM24.  My system does double duty for two channel as well as HT/TV viewing.  My current pre (Odyssey Tempest has a HT Bypass) which I must have as my wife and daughter both use this system.  Does anyone know if the Monarchy can be used for my purposes.  If so, it seems like a perfect fit for me.  I could then sell my Tempest and my Zhalou 2.0 DAC.

Thanks,

rklein
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 20 Nov 2007, 05:56 pm
Hello:

I am very interested in the Monarchy NM24.  My system does double duty for two channel as well as HT/TV viewing.  My current pre (Odyssey Tempest has a HT Bypass) which I must have as my wife and daughter both use this system.  Does anyone know if the Monarchy can be used for my purposes.  If so, it seems like a perfect fit for me.  I could then sell my Tempest and my Zhalou 2.0 DAC.

Thanks,

rklein



You could probably have CC Poon install pass-through for you as an option if your buying a new unit (call him and ask?), if not...you would need to use the old "unity gain" method, and set the monarchy volume control at a pre determined setting when you watch a movie.


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: 1000a on 25 Nov 2007, 07:25 pm
Hey gang

I started this thread awhile back and went a-wall from audio for awhile, I am thrilled to hear others like the DAC.  I am still very pleased with mine, have no urge to change or try diffrent ones, it works great for me.  I probably won't even look around for at least 5 years for such a piece.

It is interesting to note after being gone for I guess 4 months and coming back all my endless obsession with wires and cones and what not has dried up completely, lucky for me.  But this is a pattern of mine I get obessed for like 4-6 months and then just OD.  This DAC so out performs my old DAC it is a massive improvement, extremely musical I would say.

The lucky thing for me is my other DAC was circa 2001-2 (Birdland Odeon Lite) fairly big stuff (1,000) in its day.  So my 5 cents worth is find one you like enough and pass on the endless searching (wait 2 generations of DACs then check in again), this is a very good piece, I can forget about boxes and get back to the music. Just real musical for me in MS.

That said waiting 5 yrs to catch up on DAC improvements has massive benifits.  I am just thrilled to see comments and interest in this DAC.  For the chops it delivers I am surprized there is not more chatter. Although like I said I have ODed on audio and maybe this piece, my Promi TVC, my SB3 and a good effort at DIY room treatment has raised the level of my system high enough I have no interest in searching and spending more at this time.

Or maybe people with this piece are just happy campers and talking about it is boring to them. Who knows. :O)

The greatest bang (outside of DIY bass traps) for my $$ in tweeking my system (this or that way) has come from Halos newest tube dampers for small tubes (blackberies) the ones he has that deliver the most detail (out about 5 months ago).

Having a tube amp and tube DAC I can mix and match his dampers in the various 4 stages tuning my system to my likes for very little $$.

Happy holidays and good health to all.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ajzepp on 7 Dec 2007, 11:50 pm
OKay, I'm confused...

1) You guys keep saying this thing has both a tube and ss DAC. Can you explain to me in layman's terms what you mean? I know what a DAC is, and I know the difference between tubes and solid state. But I see a limited number of connections on the back of this thing (via the pics), and am wondering how two DACs are coming into play.

2) I read the Lynn Olson review and saw that s/he recommends an external volume control in order to bypass what s/he considers the weak point of the NM24. Can you guys tell me how this would work? And are any of you using one of these volume controls with good results?

3) Why do you some of you say this is the best bang for under $1k? Doesn't it retail for like $1500?

4) I'll echo the question above with regard to the HT bypass thing. If I just ordered a stock unit, worst case scenario is that I can run my pre/pro into the NM24 and the NM24 into my amp, and just calibrate things with the volume control on the NM24 at one specified level?

Thanks!
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 8 Dec 2007, 06:05 pm
1)  You have a choice on using either the tubed DAC, which is connected internally to the built in preamp, or a SS one.  The tubed DACs output will then be on the preamp outputs.  The tubed DAC also has line output jacks that bypass the preamp.  You would connect those to an external preamp, or volume control.  The SS DAC only has line outputs.  To use it with the built in preamp you would connect the output jacks to the set of preamp input jacks.  Personally I am using the preamp input jack for my phono preamp.  To select either the internally connected tube DAC, or whatever is connected to the extra line input, just push the button on the front.

2)  I like the preamp and do not see it as a weak point at all.  My previous on was an Audio Research.

3)  It is often found being sold for $1080.00 on Audiogon, some are used, others new.

40  I'm sorry, but i don't do the home theater thing and really don't know anything about that.

Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ajzepp on 8 Dec 2007, 06:31 pm
Thanks for the info, Dave...if you view the preamp section favorably in light of your experience with an Audio Research unit, that is saying a lot! I've never owned an AR, but it seems as if they make some of the most consistently well-reviewed gear on the planet. So you use the Monarchy for your phono preamp and DAC? Have you ever played around with an external volume control, or just used the Monarchy as a DAC?

I never get tired of looking at your system pics....that is one kickass room!
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: flintstone on 8 Dec 2007, 06:36 pm
ajzepp

I saw your post at the Audioasylum...I gave you some input there.


Dave
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ajzepp on 8 Dec 2007, 07:24 pm
Thanks Dave....just responded back to you. Things are getting clearer, but for some reason I still don't have my head around all this piece does and doesn't do.  :duh:
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: invicta51 on 8 Dec 2007, 08:43 pm
Is this correct?

To integrate a HT and 2 ch system using the NM24 you could hook your HT main l/r into the NM24 preamp inputs and select the preamp function on the NM24 front panel (using a premeasured volume level on the NM24).  To use the 2 ch system you would turn off the HT processor and use the digital input to the NM24.

Downside to this the NM24 would always have to be turned on when using the HT and the possibility of feeding the NM24 a signal from the HT and 2 ch digital source simultaneously. 

Someone needs to ask CC if he can install a RCA pair of inputs with a HT bpass to the NM24 preamp outputs.
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: Housteau on 8 Dec 2007, 11:39 pm
Thanks for the info, Dave...if you view the preamp section favorably in light of your experience with an Audio Research unit, that is saying a lot! I've never owned an AR, but it seems as if they make some of the most consistently well-reviewed gear on the planet. So you use the Monarchy for your phono preamp and DAC? Have you ever played around with an external volume control, or just used the Monarchy as a DAC?

I never get tired of looking at your system pics....that is one kickass room!

The Monarchy takes the line level output from my phono preamp and then preamplifies it.  I have not tried a separate volume control with the NM24, or taken the DACs line level outputs to another preamp for a listen.  I really like the synergy of the single unit and how well it works within my system, especially with the new tubes.  It just sounds right.

Thank you about the room.  It is my own little slice of audio heaven.  My home is actually very simple at around 1500 sq/ft.  Over the years I have fixed things up here and there.  This room however, is a separate structure that I had build when I put in a small detatched garage.  It has its own little central AC system and the separation from the house allows me to listen and not bother anyone, such as late at night.   
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: rklein on 11 Dec 2007, 06:47 pm
I did contact CC Poon about the posibility of adding an HT bypass and he emailed me some papers on the possibilities of the NM24 which did not answer my question. :roll:  I then emailed my question again spelling out exactly my dilemma and that using the "unity gain setting" method with a preamp won't cut it as both my wife and daughter use this system for watching TV/movies, therefore an HT bypass is a must!!  I think they "got it" the second time around.  Below is Ming's response to my second question on the HT bypass:

Quote
Dear Randy,
We can include an RCA out routed from the Digital Audio IN so that
the signal is available all the time at this new terminal.
Additional cost: $30
 
Best regards.
Ming

Does Ming's response = a true HT bypass??

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: OK Monarchy NM24 DAC in the house
Post by: ajzepp on 13 Dec 2007, 02:40 pm
Here is what CC Poon wrote back to me about incorporating the NM24 into an existing HT system with receiver/processor:

"The easiest way is to feed the L/R 2-channel signal from your 5-channel decoder
(the HT Receiver's front L/R out) to the Line Input of the M24.

The front panel button of the M24 will allow the front L/R signals  to pass
through its internal tube Line Amp gain stage(abou 16 dB gain)
to the Output, to drive the two channel power amp/speaker system."

No mention of an HT bypass feature, but I guess this will work for my purposes. This is a really neat product!  :thumb: