Cartridge Setup Help?

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cmscott6

Cartridge Setup Help?
« on: 14 Jan 2008, 03:32 am »
I'm wondering if someone could help with a cartridge setup. 

I've had a MusicHall MMF-5 for a couple of years now.  When I purchased it I ran through the steps of setting up the cartridge, partially as a learning experience (this is my first tt), and partially a fine tuning of the factory setup.  Everything went well, and I enjoyed listening to the table.

I recently had a month or so of not listening to the tt and when I went to play an album, I noticed that the sound was awful.  Upon closer inspection I realized that the stylus was bent back in the wrong direction and just about to fall off.  (I'm guessing rambunctious cats, tho' it's still a mystery...)  I couldn't afford a new stylus for the Goldring 1022, so I bought a new Goldring Elektra cartridge.  I ran through the steps of installing it, levelled the tonearm, zeroed the tracking force scale, dialled it in to 1.75 (about the same as the previous cart), and reattached the anti-skating weight.  Okay so far. 

I cued up the first disc and when I lowered the tonearm, it stayed floating above the record and pulled right back to the rest position.  Even moving the anti-skate weight to the lightest position was too much force.  Only by dialling the tracking force to 2.5 allowed me to start to play a record, and even then it only went a few revolutions before wanting to pull back toward the tonearm.  In addition, the sound was distorted in both channels.  I've read and reread the instructions and a couple of other setup instructions, and I've started over balancing the tonearm, etc.  I keep ending up with the same problem.  Am I missing something?  Or is something really wrong here?  Can anyone kindly offer me any suggestions?

Many Thanks!

royphil345

Re: Cartridge Setup Help?
« Reply #1 on: 14 Jan 2008, 09:20 am »
You almost have to be doing something wrong...

Is the counterweight on correctly with the numbers facing the front of the table?

To zero the scale...

Adjust the counterweight by twisting it until the arm floats just above the surface of your mat and adding any more tracking force causes the stylus to come to rest lightly touching the mat. Hold the weighted part of the counterweight to prevent it from turning, while turning the numbered scale to zero. Any tracking force setting greater than zero should now cause the needle to come to rest lightly on the mat as it obviously should. At zero there should be no tracking force and the needle will not come to rest in contact with the mat.

The directions that come with the table are a bit confusing, talking about the arm being parallel to the platter at zero. That would depend on how well your VTA is set for one thing... The fact is, any stylus pressure setting greater than zero should cause there to be stylus pressure (the stylus will come to rest touching the record or mat). A setting of zero should cause there to be no pressure between the stylus and record (stylus comes to rest floating just above the record). That's what you have to go by...  The arm should be close to paralell with the surface of the record while playing if the VTA is set correctly. That can be tweaked a bit by ear for best sound.

Now that the scale is properly set at zero, simply turn the whole counterweight assembly (weighted and numbered parts together) until the scale reads the desired tracking force. 1.75 grams should be a good place to start for the Electra (between the 17 and 18 markings on the scale of the MMF-5 arm).  You can fine-tune that by ear for the best sound. Music Hall recommends attaching the anti-skate weight to the second notch to match a 1.75 gram tracking force.

Here's a copy of the manual if you don't have it.  http://www.vinylengine.com/library/music-hall/mmf-5.shtml

Is your zero setting changing when you attach the anti skate weight? I could maybe see this happening. If this is what's going on and you're attaching the anti-skate weight correctly... you may have to try and zero the scale with the anti-skate weight attached. Wouldn't be easy because the anti-skating force would always pull the arm towards the armrest.

EDIT: If the zero setting is changing when you attach the anti-skate weight...  Would it be possible to bend the guide for the string so that it's level with where the string attaches to the tonearm when the stylus is in playing position?

Good luck!!! :)
« Last Edit: 14 Jan 2008, 12:49 pm by royphil345 »

Wayner

Re: Cartridge Setup Help?
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jan 2008, 02:05 pm »
Just summarize where you need to be:

1. Do you have the correct stylus position from stylus to tonearm pivot center?
2. Is the offset angle correct?
3. Are you tracking at the proper weight recommended by the cartridge manufacturer?
4. Has anti-skating been adjusted correctly?

You need to know the answer to all of the above to get this table sounding good.

Wayner

twitch54

Re: Cartridge Setup Help?
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jan 2008, 02:38 pm »
Little unclear with your explanation, but it does sound as if you do not have correct stylus pressure. Do you have a pressure gauge ?? If not, buy one, even if it's the inexspensive beam-level type. If you own a TT you MUST have one of these in your tool chest ! The set-up procedure that you went through with counter-weight adj on the end of the tonearm just gets you in the 'ballpark', yes, sometimes one is lucky and is damn near spot on. I don't think you were !

Also, being a newbie, do yourself a favor and buy Fremer's DVD   "21st Century Vinyl", it covers Project / Music Hall as well as providing other bits of analog 'nuggets' !

cmscott6

Re: Cartridge Setup Help?
« Reply #4 on: 15 Jan 2008, 01:29 am »
Many thanks folks!

I went back (yet again) and reread the instructions as well as a couple of primers on the web.  I started over again and realized that you have to give just the slightest forward pressure on the counterweight while you are dialing in the stylus pressure, otherwise it just seems to spin in place.  Made all the difference in the world - tracks perfectly, even on slightly warped discs.  I guess the last question is, if the sound is good, i.e. stereo image and depth are great (thank you Hagerman and AKSA), dynamic range sounds good, do I still need to go out and buy a pressure gauge?

Thanks again for your patient help!

twitch54

Re: Cartridge Setup Help?
« Reply #5 on: 15 Jan 2008, 02:28 am »
I guess the last question is, if the sound is good, i.e. stereo image and depth are great (thank you Hagerman and AKSA), dynamic range sounds good, do I still need to go out and buy a pressure gauge?


In a word ......yes ! I know of no one seriously into vinyl without one, mine is digital.

FWIW, I owned a mmf-9 table before I purchased my VPI Aries-3 and I can tell you first hand that no matter how good I tried to approximate the counter weight setting I was off buy as much as .3-.5 grams. Granted most cartridges have an operating "zone", I like the comfort of knowing that I'm in it !