AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The HiRez Music Circle => Topic started by: woodsyi on 8 Dec 2010, 05:18 pm
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I am woefully out of date on digital playback as I have been spinning vinyl for the most part. Since Ted is up on all the latest developments on DACs, I will ask the question here even though my question pertains to Redbook playback as well.
Starting from scratch with an arbitrary budget of $10K, how does one construct a digital front end that will give the most bang for the buck? It will just be the front end consisting of a transport, a DAC and whatever else that is needed to play digitized music both on discs and in stored files. Let's assume there is already a server with stored music files in FLAC and WAV but discs must also be able to be played directly.
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Best Digital Signal Out
With the best transmission to the DAC.
And a DAC that makes your toes curl.
But you already knew that :D !
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IMHO, PS Audio Perfectwave DAC and Bridge, NAS for storage, Ethernet feed from NAS to Bridge. Computer only needed for server and/or ripping/download purposes. This provides an I2S feed to the DAC without SPDIF conversion.
Hope this helps. . .
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I agree with catastrofe.
You also need a iPhone, iTouch or iPad to run the PS Audio tagNplay control app.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39758)
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What server, Woodsyi? it makes a difference, cuz if it's a MAC, then a direct connection (firewire preferably, or asynch USB) DAC is in order. If it is a pc then you might need an S/PDIF to USB interface before the DAC (budget $1k max). A newly discussed Linux-based server, Auralitii, is $799 and S/PDIF based. Some say it is the quietest most musical out there. More to come...
Off the top of my head stuff.......
Great DACs I've heard that play redbook to 24/192:
primary connection is firewire:
Metric Halo LIO-8 $3400 (also is an 8 ch DAC if needed, MAC -based software, can be driven directly to some amps)
Weiss DAC202 $6k (can be a digital preamp as well)
Prism Orpheus ($4k) (also an 8 channel DAC, can be driven directly to some amp)
Weiss DAC2 ($2300 used...mine :) )
primary connection is asynch USB:
Antelope Zodiac Plus ($2500)
Ayre QB-9 ($2600) USB only
Wavelength Coscecant ($3500-6k depending on options) (tubed)
Wyred4Sound DAC2 ($2k) (Can be driven directly to some amps, includes HT bypass)
primary connection is S/PDIF and/or AES/EBU (i.e USB is not 24/192 or USB is not good aysnch interface):
Forsell MDAC-2 ($3k)
Eastern Electric Mini Boulder modded ($1500+ depending on mod) (tubed)
Berkeley Alpha ($5k) (can be digital preamp)
I'll add more. Several of these DACs sound only average until about 400 hours. A real PITA when eval'ing them. :o
I've not heard some of the other contenders: the PS Audio PWD/PWT, Audio-GD ref 7, Cantata or Wavelength Crimson...
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For the transport, because you want to store files on a server or network drive, the Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player would not be a choice, as for the moment, it only supports USB hard drives or flash drives directly connected to the BDP-1's USB ports. I don't know enough about the Auraliti to understand if it's Ethernet port will also let it access network storage for playback, or if it is only used for web browser and remote control devices to control playback, and can only use directly attached USB drives like the Bryston.
If you decide to go with a computer device, the Apple Mac Mini equipped with an SSD internal drive and controlled with an iPod Touch or iPad is a quiet, compact possibility.
MUSIC SERVER:
Mach2 Music Server - $1495
(Mac Mini optimized by Mach2 Music w/ 40GB SSD + 320GB USB External Drive for Backup)
PLAYER SOFTWARE:
Amarra 2.1 Music Player - $699 (Supports 24bit/192KHz files) or
Amarra Mini 2.1 Music Player - $299 (Supports 24bit/96KHz files) or
Pure Music player - $129 (Supports 24bit/384KHz files)
REMOTE CONTROL INTERFACE:
Apple iPod Touch 8GB - $229 or
Apple iPad 16GB - $499
Total for Music Server, Software and Remote Control would be to $1853 to $2693 depending upon software and remote choice.
Steve
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For the transport, because you want to store files on a server or network drive, the Bryston BDP-1 Digital Player would not be a choice, as for the moment, it only supports USB hard drives or flash drives directly connected to the BDP-1's USB ports. I don't know enough about the Auraliti to understand if it's Ethernet port will also let it access network storage for playback, or if it is only used for web browser and remote control devices to control playback, and can only use directly attached USB drives like the Bryston.
If you decide to go with a computer device, the Apple Mac Mini equipped with an SSD internal drive and controlled with an iPod Touch or iPad is a quiet, compact possibility.
MUSIC SERVER:
Mach2 Music Server - $1495
(Mac Mini optimized by Mach2 Music w/ 40GB SSD + 320GB USB External Drive for Backup)
PLAYER SOFTWARE:
Amarra 2.1 Music Player - $699 (Supports 24bit/192KHz files) or
Amarra Mini 2.1 Music Player - $299 (Supports 24bit/96KHz files) or
Pure Music player - $129 (Supports 24bit/384KHz files)
REMOTE CONTROL INTERFACE:
Apple iPod Touch 8GB - $229 or
Apple iPad 16GB - $499
Total for Music Server, Software and Remote Control would be to $1853 to $2693 depending upon software and remote choice.
Steve
+1
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Steve pretty much nailed it I think!! Nice setup for sure with lots of money saved for music!!! :thumb:
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Steve's solution is certainly cost effective. There are many different options depending on your DAC choice, where your music system is located in relation to your computer, and possibly how "technically oriented" you are.
I'm biased toward the PS Audio solution (I'm a Bridge Beta Tester). Given that the PWD/Bridge accepts an Ethernet connection and requires no additional software for playback (other than the controller software on an iPod or iPad), the only additional hardware needed is something on which to store your files, and depending on that choice, a computer. You can also keep your computer/NAS, etc in a different room from your system without any concern for noise.
For example:
NAS>>Router>>PWD
If you use a NAS with Twonky or other music server software built in, and if you already have a home network, you don't need any other equipment.
Another option:
NAS>>Router>>PWD with computer as server
Here, your computer hosts the server software but the files feed directly from your NAS through the router. If you already have a computer, you still have minimal hardware expense.
There are many options available depending on your specific requirements. As additional reference, prior to purchasing a PWD, I used a Mac Pro with Lynx AES16E card feeding an Esoteric D-05 DAC and G-03X Master Clock. Files were on a Drobo in my basement, connected via Ethernet to the Mac. This was an excellent setup, but I feel my current system is better.
For much less than $10K you can have a first-class system. Probably for less than $5K.
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Woodsyi,
How do you plan on listening to your music?
I ask, because the approach can be different and certainly optimized to how you choose to 'interface' with your music.
For example,
- in a dedicated listening position, solely listening?
- vs. say listening from a work area (ie. multitasking)
- etc.
For me, your plans for your primary listening environment should drive the approach.
In other words, let the solution follow you (and not the other way around).
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It will be in a dedicated 2-channel room. You can check out my current system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=361) for specifics. I am not necessarily unhappy with my current setup but the DAC is getting a little long in the tooth. It is 10 years old and that's like eons in digital world. According to a TNT review, "the Model 192 transport and DAC make use of the very same chips for upsampling: a Crystal CS 8420 samples the data up to 24bit/96kHz and then a NPC (Nippon Precision Circuit) SM5849AF brings the sampling frequency up to 192 kHz." I had it modded by Steve at EA and fitted with Pace Car 2 which reclocks data from both the CD transport and USB stream of music files (FLAC and WAV) stored in a dedicated quiet PC (1.8 TB RAID 5 array) in the same room. With retrofit Tascam unit added, it can handle 24/96 files as well as 16/44 from the computer. I must say I definitely hear a big difference in 24/96 files over 16/44. From what Steve Nugent says, there is really no good way to upgrade the current EA stuff to newer ones. I would have to sell it and buy newer stuff. So, I am exploring all possibilities to see where I want to go. I am not married to PC either. I can re-rip to AIFF or whatever if Apple/Amarra is clearly better. I do need to have a physical disc transport as my wife insists that she be able to just pop in a CD (hopefully higher rez too in the future) if she wants to listen to music without me.
I am reading up on all the suggestions and thanks for all the information. Keep them coming. :thumb:
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Another great resource is www.computeraudiophile.com. That's where I first got started.
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It will be in a dedicated 2-channel room. You can check out my current system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=361) I do need to have a physical disc transport as my wife insists that she be able to just pop in a CD (hopefully higher rez too in the future) if she wants to listen to music without me.
I am reading up on all the suggestions and thanks for all the information. Keep them coming. :thumb:
If you need a physical player check out Virtue Audio Piano M1 and let your wife design the case, a ton of custom options for her to feel right at home with, she gets into it, you get a nice CD player-actually a great one, the music sounds great and she is smiling.
Ed :thumb:
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Given the domestic harmony component you might like the new Bryston BDP-1 and BDA-1 combo with the BR-2 remote. The BDP-1 works both from front panel and MPod on an iPod Touch or iPhone. The DAC has multiple inputs via the remote, so I use one for hi-rez input, one for the CD transport, and another for streams. The remote easily selects between them. An Audiohilleo1 24/192 USB solution into another input even allows dithered level control at 24/192 input. Very nice setup.
Tom
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Given the domestic harmony component you might like the new Bryston BDP-1 and BDA-1 combo with the BR-2 remote. The BDP-1 works both from front panel and MPod on an iPod Touch or iPhone.
According to Bryston, the BDP-1 is designed for "hundreds of files, not thousands of files", as loading large numbers of files can be slow. Although it can be used with an attached USB hard drive, most people are dividing up their "libraries" into a number of individual flash drives either containing different genres or playlists.
Steve
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According to Bryston, the BDP-1 is designed for "hundreds of files, not thousands of files",
If you're referring to the HifiZine interview, the specific quote was in the context of not having a computer involved anywhere i.e. purchasing pre-made USB sticks and using the hand-held remote.
as loading large numbers of files can be slow
Where did you read that?
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NAS will have to come at some point due to popular demand ...
Easy to do in the Voyage software configuration. Just harder to do in the general case and could be a linux/networking support challenge for them. I suspect most of the complaints with the whole Squeezebox world have been around basic networking.
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Anyone try the PS Audio perfectwave dac and bridge?
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It will be in a dedicated 2-channel room. You can check out my current system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems;area=browse;system=361) for specifics.
Woodsyi,
System pic and list are very helpful. Sweet setup!
Where is your pc located?
Are you open to a hard wired connection to the controller/display?
Do you want touchscreen or keyboard driven interface?
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Anyone try the PS Audio perfectwave dac and bridge?
catastrofe and I are both using them in a no computer set up, see his posts above.
Mine current set up is:
WD HD/WNDR3700->Cat5->PSAudio PWD/Bridge/tagNplay app on iPad.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=39772)
Looking forward to trying the PS Audio tagNplay Music Manager when it becomes available later this
month.
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Where did you read that?
...I think the issue here is that this is not a product designed for thousands of music files and the management of such. it is really much more applicable to someone wanting to listen to and have access to hundreds of files rather than thousands....
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg816697#msg816697 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg816697#msg816697)
No the BDP-1 can play any number of songs. It just takes longer to load a T-BIT drive over say a 16-G thumb drive which takes a few seconds. Once the USB drive is loaded it stays loaded and you can access the song lists very quickly through whatever interface your using - mPod, iPad, iTouch, iPhone your computer, minion etc. or Bryston web interface.
I realize some people want to play with thousands of files at a time but I think most will use the BDP-1 as I do.
For instance I have a 500G USB hardrive connected to the back of the BDP-1 and it has about 5000 songs on it. Then I have about 10 Thumbdrives with different material - a Jazz one, a Classical one, a top 25 favorites etc. which I use from night to night depending on my mood.
One of the things I have noticed since I have been using the BDP-1 is I tend to use it more like a large CD player rather than a server.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg847142#msg847142 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg847142#msg847142)
I would say about 10 minutes with 1TB - but once scanned the access to the material is very quick. But as I have said before I do not think the BDP-1 is for those folks wanting to deal with thousands of songs. It is really geared more to someone wanting to managing and listen to hundreds of songs with the highest quality possible.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg846715#msg846715 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg846715#msg846715)
Steve
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The Auraliti can use local USB and/or network attached storage via NFS as long you have avahi or equivalent installed. Reducing contention for the USB ports is probably a good idea, so run it from LAN. The current version does S/PDIF via BNC to 24/192 as well as USB 24/192 if you want it (the Bryston doesn't), and a USB only optimized version is in the works for about January. They use an MPD server, the same as Bryston, so it can be controlled by any of the MPD clients out there such as Minion for Firefox or MPod on the iPod. There is no front panel interface, as in the Bryston. The software for both is pretty much all open source, so free.
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg816697#msg816697 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg816697#msg816697)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg847142#msg847142 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg847142#msg847142)
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg846715#msg846715 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82098.msg846715#msg846715)
Steve
Hi Steve, perhaps a key phrase is that "at a time" qualifier. Thanks ;)
JohnR
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This is a pretty fun question, but perhaps a personal question? :scratch:
Tomorrow if I was going to drop 10k on gear to play back hi-rez and low-rez music. I would pick up the Bryston BDA, BDP, mac mini, ipad and an apple tv and spend the rest on hi-rez tunes.. I would be content that i've covered both simplicity and quality. I'm sure it's not everyones cup of tea but it would be challenging to do better.
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"If you decide to go with a computer device, the Apple Mac Mini equipped with an SSD internal drive and controlled with an iPod Touch or iPad is a quiet, compact possibility."
SRB - where do you go for this SSD mod on the Mac Mini: info & retailer?
Thanks.
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SRB - where do you go for this SSD mod on the Mac Mini: info & retailer?
Mach2 Music, http://www.mach2music.com/index.html (http://www.mach2music.com/index.html) either sells an already modified new Mac Mini, or they will modify your existing Mac Mini.
The upgrade package for an existing Mini includes 2GB > 4GB upgrade, installation of a 40GB SSD drive and their Mach2 software modifications.
You would have to ask them if they would do an SSD-only upgrade, but if not, any local Apple store or retailer could easily do it for you.
Steve
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Software game just changed a bit today, with Pure Music supporting FLAC now. Will save me a lot of hassle coverting files from FLAC. Nice program, with some great features and capabilities. And uses iTunes interface though bypassing its effects on sound.
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Can you use the remote app through the itunes to run the Pure Music? That is how I control my Mac Mini.
Thanks,
Morgan
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Save some money and time and just get
The best Mac:
Mach2 Music Server - $1495
The best players:
Pure Music player - $129
AyreWave ~ $100
Audirvana - free
The best remote and portable player:
Apple iPod Touch 32GB or iPhone 32GB - $299
The best DAC under $2K:
Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 - $1499
The best digital recorder under $2K for digitizing your vinyl:
Korg MR-2000S - $1799
Total - $5,321
:D
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Robin,
Yes that is a nice set-up, but if OP has the budget, there are better DACs than the W4S. Maybe not at that pricepoint, but spending more on a DAC would pay off. Only OP can judge if it is worth it. For the DACs, I would take ted_b's list and audition those whose descriptions look most interesting. Even with restocking fees, the ability to audition in your system is worth it.
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Can you use the remote app through the itunes to run the Pure Music? That is how I control my Mac Mini.
Thanks,
Morgan
If Pure Music is running, there is no problem using remote. I use vnc to gain access to the mini (which is headless) from my iPad. If I am on the iMac, I use screen sharing for more granular control.
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Anyone try the PS Audio perfectwave dac and bridge?
The PerfectWave is excellent. We reviewed it a few issues ago. Our reviewer bought it and I compared it to the Naim 555 and my dCS Paganini stack. Not bad at all.
If I were spending 10k on a DAC, I'd probably go for the dCS Debussy, or if I needed disc play as well, the SimAudio Moon 750 is excellent, though a bit above your budget at 12k. If you don't mind used, there are a handful of Wadia 781's floating around for about 9-10k and if you don't need SACD playback, the new 381 is great for about $7500. Excellent DAC.
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Don't forget the Wadia 521 dac. I have one and although it's limited to 24/96 the sound is very natural and it has an excellent digital volume control built in. For reasons I don't understand this dac is rarely mentioned in articles and reviews which in my view is unfortunate.
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Don't forget the Wadia 521 dac. I have one and although it's limited to 24/96 the sound is very natural and it has an excellent digital volume control built in. For reasons I don't understand this dac is rarely mentioned in articles and reviews which in my view is unfortunate.
I'm sure it's still a great DAC, but the OP assumes sources include a computer server and another source (discs). The 521 is not only limited to 24/96 but has no USB or firewire for the computer, so it requires a computer interface like M2Tech (hiface, Evo), Wavelink, Weiss, etc. That cost and any addtl cabling should be added to this (and some of the other DACS mentioned) to provide a full solution.
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What server, Woodsyi? it makes a difference, cuz if it's a MAC, then a direct connection (firewire preferably, or asynch USB) DAC is in order. If it is a pc then you might need an S/PDIF to USB interface before the DAC (budget $1k max). A newly discussed Linux-based server, Auralitii, is $799 and S/PDIF based. Some say it is the quietest most musical out there. More to come...
Off the top of my head stuff.......
Great DACs I've heard that play redbook to 24/192:
primary connection is firewire:
Metric Halo LIO-8 $3400 (also is an 8 ch DAC if needed, MAC -based software, can be driven directly to some amps)
Weiss DAC202 $6k (can be a digital preamp as well)
Prism Orpheus ($4k) (also an 8 channel DAC, can be driven directly to some amp)
Weiss DAC2 ($2300 used...mine :) )
primary connection is asynch USB:
Antelope Zodiac Plus ($2500)
Ayre QB-9 ($2600) USB only
Wavelength Coscecant ($3500-6k depending on options) (tubed)
Wyred4Sound DAC2 ($2k) (Can be driven directly to some amps, includes HT bypass)
primary connection is S/PDIF and/or AES/EBU (i.e USB is not 24/192 or USB is not good aysnch interface):
Forsell MDAC-2 ($3k)
Eastern Electric Mini Boulder modded ($1500+ depending on mod) (tubed)
Berkeley Alpha ($5k) (can be digital preamp)
I'll add more. Several of these DACs sound only average until about 400 hours. A real PITA when eval'ing them. :o
I've not heard some of the other contenders: the PS Audio PWD/PWT, Audio-GD ref 7, Cantata or Wavelength Crimson...
Ted, how do rank the DAC's - purely in terms of sound quality for 2 channel listening?
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Software game just changed a bit today, with Pure Music supporting FLAC now. Will save me a lot of hassle coverting files from FLAC. Nice program, with some great features and capabilities. And uses iTunes interface though bypassing its effects on sound.
Where did you see that PM supports (or will be supporting) FLAC?
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Where did you see that PM supports (or will be supporting) FLAC?
It's due to be included in the next release.
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PM 1.7 is out now and includes FLAC capability.
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Firedog, I really can't rank them for you because I have different tastes, different hearing, a different room and different synergy with my system. I've ehard a bunch and any of the ones I've listed here (plenty not listed that I heard and wouldn't think about purchasing) are very good and are candidates for a great system. Some are drier and more detailed, some are wetter and more organic, but since a system is like a recipe....some systems need a dash, some need a lot of salt, and some need pepper. There is no right answer.
Additionally, new DACS I'm going to evaluate, whether inhome or at places like this week's CES (worst case) are the new M2Tech Young (24/384k), the new MP-3 from Playback Designs (32/2.6Mhz DSD), the Antelope Zodiac Gold (24/394) or maybe revisit the Antelope Zodiac Plus with the new Volticus external power supply. Antelope claims it adds that heft and weight the Plus could use, which could make it the real winner in many systems...like mine. :)
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PM 1.7 is out now and includes FLAC capability.
How do you get iTunes to handle FLAC?
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Drag FLAC files into the PM FLAC window and they show up in iTunes. The listed file type and bitrate aren't accurate, but the files play at the appropriate bitrate of the files.
Free demo will let you try it out for 14 days (or 7 days if you have demoed an earlier version).
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Drag FLAC files into the PM FLAC window and they show up in iTunes. The listed file type and bitrate aren't accurate, but the files play at the appropriate bitrate of the files.
Free demo will let you try it out for 14 days (or 7 days if you have demoed an earlier version).
Thanks. I purchased PM 2 years ago but haven't been using it. I'll upgrade to 1.7 and play with it.
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first of all, Wayne at Bolder Cable is THE MAN for this.
Squeezebox Touch with Bolder mods ($600)
EE DAC with Bolder mods
Bolder digital cable
we used this at RMAF this year and were amazed. several digital aficionados felt it was easily best digital of the show.
thanks,
lou
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The Bolder modded EE DAC is very very good. My comments on on the modded tour thread.
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I am educating myself here. With PM1.7 I don't need to re rip my FLAC files, right? Moon 750, Weiss 202, dCS DeBussy, Wadia -- I am doing my due diligence. Ted, where are you commenting on all the DACs that you test?
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I would add the zodiac gold and metric halo lio8 to that list. Both have 30 day trial periods via sweetwater and elsewhere IIRC. Prism orpheus is another that I think you can get a trial of. Ted_b has tried some of these I believe.
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Anyone try the PS Audio perfectwave dac and bridge?
I have a PS Audio Perfectwave Dac and Transport and the sound is wonderful. Absolutely a quite background, bass that is awesome, depth, transients, spaciousness, low level detail and worth the cost. One never listens to the recording from the disc, but from the solid state memory and the result is stunning (pitch and speed accuracy are "perfect". It makes normal cd's sound a lot better and when playing Reference Recordings HRx wave files it is so very realistic and the dynamic range fantastic!!!!!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=42740)
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A few people have suggested a Mac Mini. I would go a bit further, and get the Mac Mini Server. The RAM is beefed up, and the cr@ppy slot loading drive is replaced with with a second hard drive. Then you have two 500 GB drives that you can put in external enclosures (having put two SSD in the computer chassis).
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In regard to Mike Nomad's suggestion, note that if you want to import CDs, you would need an external CD/DVD drive.
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In regard to Mike Nomad's suggestion, note that if you want to import CDs, you would need an external CD/DVD drive.
Thanks for adding that. Currently fighting The Flu, and realize I haven't completed the thought. In going with an external CD/etc. drive, you would be able to shop for a better drive than what Apple put in (Not hard to beat. Plextor immediately comes to mind.), and if that drive goes out, you aren't having to take down the server to get at it.
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I had my reservations on the BDP1 before it was released. I didn't like the usb interface scheme it was using. I was determined to use my laptop on battery as the transport. I was pretty chilled by it. I know what you guys are thinking (Bryston fanboy). I can assure you that is not the case when it came to this piece. But I took the thing home (loan)and it really made me realize how important it is to not interface with a computer. You don't want a computer driven system. Thats a big for sure.
My idea on computer audio is finding a good solid transport piece, like a usb converter or dac. I want that piece to be the starting gate on my system, not the computer. If i am going to buy a usb device or any device that interfaces my system with a computer i want that piece to be the transport essentially. If i hook up a usb converter and i have to start screwing around with usb cables or Harddrives than the usb device is no longer the transport or starting piece the HHD is. Here is a quote from my feedback on the BDP1 hooked up to an omega hard that was powered by a 12 volt adaptor.
This is where James you need to sit down..... What it also did was carry a high pitch glare with it on every note and every beat the song had. It reminded me of 9pin dot matrix printer that i still use at work. Every time the printer hits the paper it emits a high slam printer drone that either gets faster or slower but the pitch is the same. This is what the bdp reminded me of with my Omega HD and crap usb cable to it.
:icon_lol:
What i really like about the bdp1 is it has great drive voltage and if you use it with a good usb stick the bdp has now become the starting gate. With the Omega hd hooked up it stole the starting gate position from the bdp1 and it sucked bad guys..... really really bad. But with the usb stick it was really excellent !!
It also tracked 192khz excellently. I used the 192khz rip of Neil Young's harvest moon and normally i don't like Neil Young's voice but in 192khz it had such a nice musical tone to it. This players plays 192khz files, not just says it does.... it does.
I haven't seen to many computer systems that allow the usb/dac player to become the transport this one does.
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I haven't seen to many computer systems that allow the usb/dac player to become the transport this one does.
It's MDP, which is a real promising approach. Let's keep a very close eye on the Linux MDP Voyager thing. A version of it in a less-than-$300 box is called Alix. Nick, an AC member that goes by nyc_paramedic (cuz that''s what he is) is VERY supportive and knowledgeable, communicates well, and is a good linux-to-dummy interpreter. His Alix/MPD thread is here, and while it's still early and mostly DIY the project is getting much more attention, traction and user-friendly. They've just introduced a GUI for setup, etc. anyway, let;s let these guys guinea pig it then let's go for it. :thumb:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62364.0
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Cheap Sony DVD player that can play DVD-V files at 24 bit 96 kHz (there are plenty of models available)
- about $50
Good upsampling DAC with a CS8416 frond end (which can sync up to just about anything up to 24 bit 192 KHz)
I built an "EZ-DAC" for under $200 and it's a kilobuck DAC killer, but there are plenty of upsampling DACs out there for under $1000 like this Benchmark DAC-1:
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BEDAC1 (http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=BEDAC1)
- so add $1000
Mac Mini for FLAC, ALAC, AIFF, WAV, OGG, etc content.
- $800
Ipod touch used as a remote for Mac Mini
- $300
Cables
- $100
Total $2250. Killer setup.
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I feel like a guy trying to time the market. There is always something brewing that promises to be better....
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I feel like a guy trying to time the market. There is always something brewing that promises to be better....
Which is why you should buy now and just start enjoying. For the next few years there will always be something better about to be released. Pick what floats your boat today, enjoy it for a few years and repeat as necessary.
George
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Yes, true, but it's hard to beat a Mac Mini as a music source / server. And it is somewhat future proof, unless you see higher bit rates than 24 bits and higher sampling than 192 KHz.
Of course, you could also play DSD files (but not SACDs) on the Mini but it would recode the files to 24 / 96 PCM before outputting them.
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first of all, Wayne at Bolder Cable is THE MAN for this.
Squeezebox Touch with Bolder mods ($600)
EE DAC with Bolder mods
Bolder digital cable
we used this at RMAF this year and were amazed. several digital aficionados felt it was easily best digital of the show.
thanks,
lou
Exactly what I'm using at home but I also have a Bolder modified Elpac for the Touch.
I just got the Bolder Digital cable to complete the front end yesterday. Outstanding combination!
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Which is why you should buy now and just start enjoying. For the next few years there will always be something better about to be released. Pick what floats your boat today, enjoy it for a few years and repeat as necessary.
George
I know, but doesn't it seem especially volatile right now?
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I know, but doesn't it seem especially volatile right now?
Been this way for the last few years.
Instead of worrying about the fact that things keep getting better and cheaper; I have been enjoying my Modwright TP. That being said, I will probably make a change sometime this year and sell the Modwright TP. I will leverage all the great inputs here to help guide me on putting together my short list of candidates.
George
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Great,
You do that and let us know what makes your short list. I trust your judgment. I am busy with records of various types at the moment anyway.
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After chill'in w/Gopher, and conversing w/Lou @ Daedalus, a version of that EE is on my S.L.
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I know, but doesn't it seem especially volatile right now?
I guess you have to look at what is coming out on Hirez recordings. It took awhile for 24 bit to start making a go at it with HD tracks(and others) and now maybe Itunes. I doubt there will be a big overhaul in the recordings and whats available for sale. Anything that plays 192khz will probably be current for a few years.
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I am going to concentrate on digital source this year at RMAF. What digital sources are at the show and what would y'all recommend as must hear. I am going to carry a flash drive with hiRez songs that I am familiar with.
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Is that 10k on the source or entire system?
If it is just the source I would go for
Bryston's BDP-1
Bryston's BDA-1
Favorite AES XLR cable
Favorite Mobile HDD
And about 5 grand on music
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I am going to concentrate on digital source this year at RMAF. What digital sources are at the show and what would y'all recommend as must hear. I am going to carry a flash drive with hiRez songs that I am familiar with.
You MUST hear the Bryston BDP-1, and then find the other minimalist Linux front ends (Auraliti, Sonore, etc) too. My days at home with the BDP-1 were quite good!!
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You MUST hear the Bryston BDP-1, and then find the other minimalist Linux front ends (Auraliti, Sonore, etc) too. My days at home with the BDP-1 were quite good!!
Is BDP-1 married (monogamous) to BDA-1 or can it play around?
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It can play around, with DACs that offer BNC/coax or AES inputs.
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It can play around, with DACs that offer BNC/coax or AES inputs.
You MUST hear the Bryston BDP-1, and then find the other minimalist Linux front ends (Auraliti, Sonore, etc) too. My days at home with the BDP-1 were quite good!!
What DAC(s) were you using with the BDP-1 with?
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I had the MF Vdac-1 for a while until I decided on a preamp. It's probably the worst DAC I've heard on any source, but it was very apparent the BDP was the best source I've owned.
I went with the BDA-1 so I can route the BDP-1, PS3, Oppo's BDP-95, ATV, Wadia's iPod dock. With the BDP and BDA it's the best source (as a combo) I've heard.
I was holding out for the SP3 and eventually decided 2-channel is more important to me.
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I recently bought an E.A.R. Acute III CD player/dac.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51578)
EAR Acute 3
The Acute 3 is Tim de Paravicini's latest CD player. The original Acute employed the excellent Wolfson, 24/96 upsampling DAC. The Acute 3 employs the latest Wolfson DAC, which upsamples to 24/192. The Acute 3 also offers digital inputs—S/PDIF, Toslink, and USB. Everything beyond the DAC is of Tim de Paravicini's design, including the filters and the output stage. One thing that makes the player unusual is the fact that the filters are analog, not digital. Another is the transformer-coupled tube output stage. A third is the fact that it has enough gain to drive a power amplifier directly, with the front-panel volume control (also analog). The Acute 3 CD player offers both true balanced and single-ended analog outputs. Review link: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue54/ear_acute.htm
I been quite happy with it. I've been using it primarily as a cd player, but last week I hooked it up to a Mac G5 running Pure Music for both 24/192 spdif and (no needed driver) usb.
In this last month I've had one of those - ya don't know how good something can be until you hear it set up mo' betta. Heretofore, I've believed that current production tubes were perfectly adequate.... What a mook. :? So I first replaced the 2 supplied PCC88s with a multitude of tubes, both 6dj8/ECC88 and7dj8/PCC88. IMO, the design is wonderful in that both 6,3 and the far less expensive 7.2 volt filament tubes may be used as the filaments are powered via a constant current source. Each tube serves both channels, the first, filtering and the second buffering, allowing the choice of tubes specific for its function. I ended up with a Siemens PCC88 in that first position, and a Dutch Amperex in the second. Actually I ended up with 4 of each, my lifetime supply, and they were the far less dear PCC88 rather that costly ECC88/6dj8, at the whopping cost of $40 and $15 each. Ever price a NOS Siemans ECC88/6dj8?
While the tube complement I prefer may not be another's preference, the Acute's tube implementation affords its owner the ability to customize the sound to their specific preferences.
I've heard the Lindemann and Playback Design CD players. I've also heard the dcs and EMM stacks. IMO, the Acute III, properly tubed, plays in their sandbox. I believe I prefer the sound of the Acute, but I've not heard those players and dacs in my own system.
FWIW,
Paul
EDIT: Dan Meinwald of EAR, along with one of his dealers, will have the Acute III in Room 1104 at RMAF '11. Dan's rooms are always a joy to listen to.
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What DAC(s) were you using with the BDP-1 with?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97925.20
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Is BDP-1 married (monogamous) to BDA-1 or can it play around?
It can play around.
Though in my system it is an excellent combo.
George
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http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97925.20
Dang. You've been busy. I got some reading to do before the show. I will have to pick your brain at the show too.
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I recently bought an E.A.R. Acute III CD player/dac.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=51578)
I been quite happy with it. I've been using it primarily as a cd player, but last week I hooked it up to a Mac G5 running Pure Music for both 24/192 spdif and (no needed driver) usb.
In this last month I've had one of those - ya don't know how good something can be until you hear it set up mo' betta. Heretofore, I've believed that current production tubes were perfectly adequate.... What a mook. :? So I first replaced the 2 supplied PCC88s with a multitude of tubes, both 6dj8/ECC88 and7dj8/PCC88. IMO, the design is wonderful in that both 6,3 and the far less expensive 7.2 volt filament tubes may be used as the filaments are powered via a constant current source. Each tube serves both channels, the first, filtering and the second buffering, allowing the choice of tubes specific for its function. I ended up with a Siemens PCC88 in that first position, and a Dutch Amperex in the second. Actually I ended up with 4 of each, my lifetime supply, and they were the far less dear PCC88 rather that costly ECC88/6dj8, at the whopping cost of $40 and $15 each. Ever price a NOS Siemans ECC88/6dj8?
While the tube complement I prefer may not be another's preference, the Acute's tube implementation affords its owner the ability to customize the sound to their specific preferences.
I've heard the Lindemann and Playback Design CD players. I've also heard the dcs and EMM stacks. IMO, the Acute III, properly tubed, plays in their sandbox. I believe I prefer the sound of the Acute, but I've not heard those players and dacs in my own system.
FWIW,
Paul
EDIT: Dan Meinwald of EAR, along with one of his dealers, will have the Acute III in Room 1104 at RMAF '11. Dan's rooms are always a joy to listen to.
Are you talking stock or did you tinker with it?
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Re: EAR Acute III
Are you talking stock or did you tinker with it?
Totally stock, other than the non warranty violating change of tubes.
Its a Tim de Paravincini component; even I don't have the hubris to consider modding it.
Please stop by Rm 1104 at the Rocky Mountain Show, introduce yourself to Dan, and give it a listen.
Regards,
Paul
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The EAR Acute II is a wonderful player! Dan and I spent a lot of time with it last year, and it has always (in earlier versions) been a musical highlight of these shows. The first DAC that went into the Acute was not Tim's design (the one I heard last year), but I believe since EAR has introduced the DAC only version they might have gone back and included it in the Acute. Paul, do you know?
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Ted,
From the EAR site -
http://www.earyoshino.com/products.php?catId=6
The "acute III" can accept up to 24/192 digital input from USB, coaxial SPDIF and Toslink SPDIF devices. Immediately upon returning to the analog domain, the audio signal is passed to analog filters of Tim de Paravicini's own design. The audio is output from a transformer-coupled PCC88tube line output stage as in EAR pro audio equipment. This allows true floating balanced output as well as identical quality unbalanced line out by RCA connectors. The maximum output is 5 volt, which means it can drive directly any power amplifier of any type, with analog volume control that can be controlled by remote handset.
(the link also gets you to the new DAC description)
I'm not sure as to the technical specifics. I'll see Tim at CES and get more technical, detailed information.
I'd previously thought my Aksa Lifeforce 100 amplifier was the limiting factor in my system. I was mistaken, and found the limit residing in my CAT SL-1 MkIII preamp, or rather in my choice of tubes. I'm now going through the hideously expensive process of re-tubing the pre, as I continue to like the vinyl from my Galibier Serac. The upside is my pleasure in finding how the Aksa continues to punch far above its weight, gloriously driving the Marten Miles II with the Acute directly driving the amp.
Regards,
Paul
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After vacillating for the last few months I came to terms to buy an EAR ACUTE III. First it was Debussy, then Meitner MA1 than MA2 but I just didn't want to pay full price you know. I am too much of a bargain hunter (a cheapskate at heart) to pay list. Anyway I made a play for a used EAR ACUTE III that just came up and I have a deal. It plays CD like what my wife wanted and I can play up to 24/192 through USB input. Time to get some 24/192 files! 8)
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I am woefully out of date on digital playback as I have been spinning vinyl for the most part. Since Ted is up on all the latest developments on DACs, I will ask the question here even though my question pertains to Redbook playback as well.
Starting from scratch with an arbitrary budget of $10K, how does one construct a digital front end that will give the most bang for the buck? It will just be the front end consisting of a transport, a DAC and whatever else that is needed to play digitized music both on discs and in stored files. Let's assume there is already a server with stored music files in FLAC and WAV but discs must also be able to be played directly.
First off, you will never get sound from digital that's as good as vinyl(IMO). That being said, I use the BDP1/BDA1 combo. Hi REz downloads sound best. But I also have a collection of SACDs which I run from an SACD player, then through a de-embedder (very cheap,$60 or so) then to the BDA1. To me this sounds better than Hi Rez downloads, but then again that's my opinion. All of this costs a lot less than your budgeted $10,000. For example, I'm using an old Oppo 970H for a transport (since a player with great a DAC proceesor isn't needed since I am using the BDA1 as the DAC). The Oppo only cost $160. But of course you could opt for a more expensive SACD player.