Class D versus the rest

Freo-1 · « **Reply #440 on:** 20 Oct 2014, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 19 Oct 2014, 11:14 pm

When I was a dealer back in the 80's, I sold Classe, Rowland, and Electroccompiet. All three companies are with us today, but the Electro was the best of the bunch back then. It is nice, or frustrating, to see so many amp designs and brands today, but so far none is perfect. You can find any brand used on the Internet if you search.

Maybe when Class Z comes out, it will be the perfect amp for us all.

Tom, Electrocompaniet is STILL the best of the bunch in the solid state arena, IMHO. If one wants to get off the equipment upgrade merry go round, EC gear would be at the top of my audition list. In the solid state realm, the EC gear is easily the best overall performer I have come across. They are stable on the most punishing speaker loads available, and seem to get just about everything right. Low level detail is outstanding, with the clarity and correct dynamic contrast (no compression of the loud passages to make the quiet ones appear louder). The design is truly balanced from stem to stern, and propriety circuitry makes it sound closer to music than just about any SS gear out there. EC is a great match with speakers like ATC, which demand top designed electronics to sound their best.

EC seems to have a larger following in Europe than North America, but worth seeking out.

werd · « **Reply #441 on:** 20 Oct 2014, 11:12 pm »

Quote from: a.wayne on 20 Oct 2014, 06:51 pm

2 Pr outputs or is it 4 Pr with 4 on the bottom ...... ?

Sorry what are you asking?

a.wayne · « **Reply #442 on:** 20 Oct 2014, 11:43 pm »

Quote from: werd on 20 Oct 2014, 03:30 pm

Here is what $490.00 CAD gets you. Made in Canada too. No Chinese garbage

This pic shows 4 outputs /ch, I'm asking if there is 4 more per side on the lower part of the sink , bringing the total to 8 /ch. 4 is way too small for its power rating ....

werd · « **Reply #443 on:** 20 Oct 2014, 11:48 pm »

I'll look when I get home tonight from work. ^^^^^

jk@home · « **Reply #444 on:** 21 Oct 2014, 12:00 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 20 Oct 2014, 03:35 am

My XLS 1500 is burning in and is less fatiguing now, the compression is certainly there but either it's less compressed or I'm getting used to it. I have a track that I can use to test it, there was one instrument in particular that was a lot louder then with my SET amp. I got to try my SET vs an Air Tight Pre and fi 2a3 monoblocks and my SET was it's equal so it's a good benchmark.

Tom, I doubt you will regret your purchase, this amp is sounding much better than yesterday, it'll be like the TBI with 10x the power and cheaper too. Better than your JOB? I doubt it, but it's a good amp...

I have a Odyssey Stratos on the way, should be an interesting comparison there too.

That's good to hear Dave. We went out of town this weekend and unfortunately I didn't leave my Crown running while we were gone. I'm going to run mine all the week, then compare it with the Aragon.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #445 on:** 21 Oct 2014, 12:11 am »

My 2000 never showed up, it is running a day behind.

jtsnead · « **Reply #446 on:** 21 Oct 2014, 05:12 pm »

The Crown looks interesting. I have been following all the class d stuff since I built my own bridged Class D amp (2-SDS254 amp boards), I started with a single board and then added another, greatly improved dynamics etc with my Joseph Audio RM25xl speakers, finally have the funds to try something else, read all about ice, ncore, pascall and Job 225, after careful consideration and the fact that some people who have had/built the ncore amps are moving to the pascal I ordered D Sonic M3-800 monos, which use the latest boards, same as the M3-1500's, I just received them today so I will compare them in a week or so to my Class D amp, hope it is an improvement

OzarkTom · « **Reply #447 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 01:42 am »

Two hours of use tonight on the 2000 and so far I am

I will put 50-100 hours of break-in and compare it to the TBI and Job 225 amps.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #448 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 02:10 am »

Tom, it's harsh and fatiguing at first, give it a couple days and it will improve. I'd have to say it's sounding very good right now, I still don't think the midrange is going to beat a really nice SET amp but there's no doubt it's better than my SET on some types of music. My Omegas are pretty forward and the Crown isn't fatiguing at this point, it's doing better than I thought it would. I think this amp is going to be hard to beat at any any price when used as sub/woofer amp. It makes the Omegas produce bass in a way my SET amp can't. This with a SET on the top end is going to be amazing.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #449 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 02:22 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 22 Oct 2014, 02:10 am

Tom, it's harsh and fatiguing at first, give it a couple days and it will improve. I'd have to say it's sounding very good right now, I still don't think the midrange is going to beat a really nice SET amp but there's no doubt it's better than my SET on some types of music. My Omegas are pretty forward and the Crown isn't fatiguing at this point, it's doing better than I thought it would. I think this amp is going to be hard to beat at any any price when used as sub/woofer amp. It makes the Omegas produce bass in a way my SET amp can't. This with a SET on the top end is going to be amazing.

No harshness here so far, just closed-in. But I know that will change. But your cables are more detailed than mine. I have some more detailed ICs coming in next week, I found a heck of a deal on Audiogon that I could not afford to pass up. But these are still not quite as detailed as yours are.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #450 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 02:39 am »

Well on second thought, since I have turned the music off, my ears are slightly buzzing. But it is not as bad as I would have thought after two hours of listening. Friday and Saturday nights are always the worst here. I should have close to 100 hours by then.

jk@home · « **Reply #451 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 12:25 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 22 Oct 2014, 02:22 am

No harshness here so far, just closed-in. But I know that will change. But your cables are more detailed than mine. I have some more detailed ICs coming in next week, I found a heck of a deal on Audiogon that I could not afford to pass up. But these are still not quite as detailed as yours are.

I actually switched to warmer IC cables yesterday, with obvious positive results. But the KEF LS50s are hot in the 2-5k region, I surprised this amp is working as well as it is with these speakers.

rollo · « **Reply #452 on:** 22 Oct 2014, 04:31 pm »

FYI. Class "D" amps need to be on 24/7 to sound their best. They will open up after about 400 hours or so. Be patient. Lots of experience had with class "D" both hybrid and non hybrid.

charles

jk@home · « **Reply #453 on:** 23 Oct 2014, 11:44 pm »

Well, don't think I will wait that long. Although the Crown is a nice clean sounding amp for the money, I'm sending mine back. Just didn't jell with the KEFs, too much high frequency energy. The old Aragon sounds more relaxed and warmer, with more lower and smoother midrange which is needed with these speakers. Soundstage and imaging was about the same with both amps. Oh well, a fun experiment.

Rclark · « **Reply #454 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 12:00 am »

Quote from: rollo on 22 Oct 2014, 04:31 pm

FYI. Class "D" amps need to be on 24/7 to sound their best. They will open up after about 400 hours or so. Be patient. Lots of experience had with class "D" both hybrid and non hybrid.

charles

I've noticed this as well. I leave mine on 24/7 and the performance is remarkably consistent.

But if I shut them down to demo at another location , it does take about 30-45 minutes to get to full mojo. Probably everything else in the system warming up too though.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #455 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 12:34 am »

Quote from: jk@home on 23 Oct 2014, 11:44 pm

Well, don't think I will wait that long. Although the Crown is a nice clean sounding amp for the money, I'm sending mine back. Just didn't jell with the KEFs, too much high frequency energy. The old Aragon sounds more relaxed and warmer, with more lower and smoother midrange which is needed with these speakers. Soundstage and imaging was about the same with both amps. Oh well, a fun experiment.

How many hours did you play your Crown?

jk@home · « **Reply #456 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 01:06 am »

Maybe 50 hours. Not enough? I am a believer in breakin as I have heard it before with my Dodds unit and the KEFs. Just hate to prolong the inevitable.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #457 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 01:20 am »

My Job 225 amp sounded thin for 100 hours, I have about 50 hours on the Crown. My buddy Rex is using the KEF's and Job amp and loving it.

rodge827 · « **Reply #458 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 01:32 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 24 Oct 2014, 01:20 am

My Job 225 amp sounded thin for 100 hours, I have about 50 hours on the Crown. My buddy Rex is using the KEF's and Job amp and loving it.

Tom is your iTube in the chain?

OzarkTom · « **Reply #459 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 01:35 am »

Quote from: rodge827 on 24 Oct 2014, 01:32 am

Tom is your iTube in the chain?

Yes,of course.