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Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => NuForce => Topic started by: plivac on 22 Nov 2007, 02:39 pm

Title: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 22 Nov 2007, 02:39 pm
OK, so I am about to become an official owner of the MCH-3Se-c7 and the AVP17, but since the AVP17 is basically a slightly revised version of the AVP16 I was thinking to start a thread where users would comment of the type of specs they would like to see in the upcoming AVP32 - next year model.

This is in hope that the NuForce management takes our views into consideration and implements some of our desires.
I believe we want something to rival the Cary Cinema 11a with a price range $2k to $3k.

Here are some I came up with:

1. HDMI 1.3 passthrough (no need for video processing) w/ support of the new HD audio formats
2. Audissey Room Eq (can be a higher priced model - like a "pro" version)
3. Lip Sync control
4. Upconversion of Compressed Audio Formats (MP3s)
5. Dolby Headphone
6. Internet Radio (doesn't have to be WiFi)
7. Back-lit remote
8. Latest Audio DACs from Burr Brown or like
9. same chassis so as to match the MCH amps

cheers
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 22 Nov 2007, 05:03 pm
Some good ideas! I don't know about the MP3 upconversion (doesn't seem to help all that much), but maybe there is room for improvement there. At the very least, a mini-jack (front panel?) for connecting a device is a good idea.

I'd want the ability to use stereo subs (summed to mono for those with one sub), and switchable "pure analog" pass-through (for using high-def players connected with RCAs, or any other analog source). Basically I like to see things uncomplicated, yet very well done...the less that can interfere with the signal, the better!
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: KrK on 22 Nov 2007, 06:03 pm
USB and Firewire ports.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 22 Nov 2007, 06:20 pm
USB and Firewire ports.

Ah yes, can't believe those slipped my mind.  :duh: Such provisions should be standard practice in the industry going forward.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: EAmin on 23 Nov 2007, 10:41 pm
I personally don't want a scaler, audyssey, etc. built into the Processor.  I would rather buy them as separate components. 
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 24 Nov 2007, 02:25 pm
I think having Audyssey inside the AVP is better than having a separate unit between the AVP and the amp.

The important thing is that you are able to bypass it if you want to.

As for a scalar I don't think it is necessary, but HDMI 1.3 passthrough is unless you plan for the player to do the audio encoding and use analog multichannel into the AVP.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Viclondon on 26 Nov 2007, 10:32 pm
For me a very good version of the Audissey, HDMI 1.3 support and a more flexible bass management.
AFAIK if the Audyssey is a separate unit, there would be a double A/D D/A conversion which should be avoided at all costs. So Audissey must be in the pre/pro
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Jim Swantko on 29 Nov 2007, 03:17 am
Lip sync - absolutely
Room EQ - absolutely
Upconversion - don't care
Headphone - don't care
Back-lit remote - Yep
Latest Audio DAC's - yep
Chassis - could not care less

What the answers above show me - is that the one most important aspect that hasn't been mention is "upgradeability".

Having owned a Meridian 861 - I loved the card based architecture which allowed me to pick and choose the features/upgrades I wanted.

I sincerely believe that any processor which isn't easily and quickly upgradeable is doomed from the get-go.

Make it

1.  Sound good!!!
2.  Be flexible
3.  Be something I am comfortable INVESTING in for the long term

Hit those marks and you have a winner.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 29 Nov 2007, 05:16 am
Color me crazy...but how about TWO sets of 7.1 analog inputs? Or maybe just 5.1...so you can throw in an Oppo player (for regular DVD's, multi-channel SACD and DVD-A, etc.) and also a high-def player with the uncompressed PCM audio. For me, at least, that would have more value than a few XLR's, especially if they aren't fully balanced/don't cover all channels.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: SleeperSupra on 1 Dec 2007, 03:57 pm
I own the Nuforce AVP-16.

The processor does have very good sound but could, and should, sound a little better with future generations,

There are a few things that if addressed would add to its flexibility and make it a much more enjoyable unit to operate and more importantly to listen to.

I would really love to be able see what input and what surround mode I am in on the face of the unit at he same time, just some kind of recall button on the remote that will bring the display up would be nice.

The ability to independently control bass and treble on all channels, and having separate crossover settings for all channels would be great too.

I would also love to have more flexible bass management.

Room EQ

Latest DAC's

Back-lit remote

Dolby Headphone

Lip sync

A MC/MM phono stage in the preamp with the ability to fine tune settings for voltage and capacitance would be a nice touch too.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: sac8d4 on 19 Dec 2007, 06:04 pm
Advanced X-over options and newest lossless audio codecs
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: bigdwest on 23 Dec 2007, 05:48 pm
Nuforce might consider going the route Cary Audio is going with their new Cinema 11a and 11v.

The 11a is and audio only processor it will have 1 HDMI 1.3 input and 1 HDMI 1.3 output which will pass through video but handle all the bitstream audio (DD, DD Plus, Dolby TureHD, DTS, DTS 24/96, DTS HD, DTS Master Audio, DSD for SACD decoding) and 7.1 Multi-channel LPCM 24/192 audio, I personally think this is brilliant on their part. 

With this type of strategy nuforce can focuse on doing what they do best… Audio.

Then for video switching, you could use the OPPO HDMI video switch or use something like a DVDO VP50, or manage all the video connections through your TV, or if nuforce wants to keep video switching on board they will need cross conversion from composite, s-video, and component to HDMI.  This would be a must, as there are still some inputs such as the x-box 360 and Wii which need to be output to HDMI, but up-conversion and scaling would not be required as it can be managed by the display device or seperate scaler.

One nice feature would also be multiple memory settings for managing lip sync issues for each source type even if the source is being fed by and external switcher.

Another incredibly important feature would be all the setup and configuration menus displayed over HDMI as many of us now days don’t use composite, svideo, or component connections to our display devices.  Another option would be to use an onboard LCD or OLED display for managing the setup process and displaying status information, such as volume level, surround mode selected, incoming audio signal details, etc.

If you can keep all the functions and sound quality of the current AVP17 but add the above and keep a price point in the $1500 to $2000 range you will have a winner for the ages to come.

I am of the opinion let different devices do what they do best.  Use an outboard video processor for video switching and scaling, using the AVP for purest analog and digital audio duties, and then if a user wants a room EQ and correction system go with something like Audyssey Sound Equalizer.

I do think nuforces has an opportunity to partner on a few fronts. They might want to consider partnering with DVDO or Realta and have them create a nuforce branded version of their video processor/switcher to mate with the AVP for video switching duties.  They might also want to partner with Audyssey to provide a branded version of the Sound Equalizer (a separate box) to mate with the AVP to provide room equalization. By re-branding those products, software, firmware upgrades, etc are off loaded to each of those providers. which allows nuforce to stay focused on what they do best. By having these rebranded products, it will allow customization of the AVP system for the customer base. 

If a customer wants a complete “high end” system they can purchase the AVP, video processor and room correction/EQ.  I might suggest a price point on the complete system less amps in the range of $3500 to $4000.  If a customer just wants the AVP or AVP plus sound equalizer they could purchase that setup, I might recommend that AVP plus sound Equalizer be in the range of $2000 to $2500 range and then if a user wanted just the base AVP it would be at the current $1300 to $1500 range.   

A side benefit by offering a complete package is a higher price point and margin point for the dealers, it might enhance the relationship they have with the dealers.   

I would love to see nuforce offer a direct to consumer purchase experience like Oppo Digital.  With a good branding and internet marketing manager I think nuforce could do some amazing things with a better profit margin as opposed to selling through dealers. 
 
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: bigdwest on 24 Dec 2007, 01:24 am
AFAIK if the Audyssey is a separate unit, there would be a double A/D D/A conversion which should be avoided at all costs. So Audissey must be in the pre/pro

After thinking about it I have to agree, Audyssey needs to be built in to avoid the additional A/D D/A conversion.  If Integra can build a pre/pro with Audyssey pro builtin along with the all the other features for $1699 then I would hope nuforce might be able to do the same.

 
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 28 Dec 2007, 02:51 pm
I spoke to people at Cary Audio, before I purchased the AVP 17 and they said that in order to get the HD audio formats you will need the 11v which takes in the HDMI 1.3 and then sends the signal via proprietary connection to the 11a - for a total of $6,000....

I like the AVP 17, now I really hope they will work on a good update with the AVP "32"

I am thinking on starting a poll with desirable features....
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: bigdwest on 31 Dec 2007, 02:30 am
I spoke to people at Cary Audio, before I purchased the AVP 17 and they said that in order to get the HD audio formats you will need the 11v which takes in the HDMI 1.3 and then sends the signal via proprietary connection to the 11a - for a total of $6,000....

I like the AVP 17, now I really hope they will work on a good update with the AVP "32"

I am thinking on starting a poll with desirable features....

There have been some interesting updates with the Cary Cinema 11 recently,  For the owners of the current Cary Cinema 11 they will need the Cinema 11v (video processor) it will not have any on board decoding for Dolby Digital +, or Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD/Master audio.  It will only pass a lossless decoded multi channel PCM signal via the high speed data link between the Cinema 11 and 11v.  There is to be a new Cinema 11 called the Cinema 11a it will have a 1 in 1 out HDMI 1.3 connection.  The new Cinema "11a" will have built in the necessary decoders for DD+, Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD/MasterAudio.  It has been a major discussion on the Cinema 11 thread at AVSforum.com.  Some of the currently Cinema 11 owners are feeling a little gilted about the news.

 
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 31 Dec 2007, 07:23 pm
The people who by NuForce products, in my opinion, would have no trouble paying $1000-$1500 extra ($3000) for a decent Pre/Pro.

Although, depending on the volume of HT business that NuForce does - this might not be economically feasible for the company if it wanted to do the bundled product correctly, i.e. tons of testing on the various facets of the Pre/Pro.

As for me - if they manage to beef up the AVP17 - I wouldn't think twice about getting the upgrade...
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 31 Dec 2007, 07:38 pm
Regarding the 11a - I am skeptical that they will make it passthrough HDMI 1.3 and process HD audio at the same time since 11 & 11v would become obsolete, unless you wanted to pay $3000 for a video processor...

Of course, they could charge $4000 for it...
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 1 Jan 2008, 03:49 pm
I think $3K is the ceiling for a new AVP...lower would be better of course.  :icon_lol: With some of the things companies like Emotiva are doing it'll be an uphill battle to go any higher, but I'm confident the NuForce team has some cool ideas in store.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 2 Jan 2008, 09:29 am
We like to keep it at $2K.  It is still too early to tell.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: phoenix_rising on 2 Jan 2008, 11:14 am
Hi there,

As a prospective customer here is what i would want:

WIFI or Hardwired Internet capability
so I can have the capability to stream music from a PC

Lip sync
Must have feature

HD Format Support
Must support all HD codecs. Must Have.

Room EQ
Trinnov is superior to Auddessy and would be my preference. It is a must have feature.

Upconversion
yes upconvert everything but make it defeatable

Headphone
don't care

Subwoofers
Support for more than one subwoofer please, we are audiophiles and many have stereo subs

Remote
Would prefer that you use an RF remote so the equipment could be hidden, a good way of dealing with remotes is to do a deal with one of the remote control companies so it is just a face plate change and you can just use one of their standard programmable remotes

Latest Audio DAC's
yep, the higher resolution the better and Burr Brown please

Chassis
could not care less

Video
Would do what Cary did and use a separate video box or just not offer one at all, there are plenty of video only boxes out there. Just do a deal and rebadge one.

I would not bother with a card based system. Technology is moving too fast for it to be of any real use. The bus itself would be outdated in a few years anyway. Just build the best processor for audio at a reasonable cost.

Phoenix


Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: JDoyle on 24 Jan 2008, 01:02 am
We like to keep it at $2K.  It is still too early to tell.

Is there an updated release date yet?

JD
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 30 Jan 2008, 09:45 am
Waiting for HD audio decoding chip set.  I don't think we're going to see AVP-32 out the door until end of the year. Testing and getting all the bugs out is going to take a long time. That's why I am not optimistic about the schedule.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 30 Jan 2008, 04:15 pm
Couple of important questions:

1. can you give us an idea of what to expect feature-wise.
(of course if we can stir you in the right direction that would be nice too)

2. also will there be a trade-in program for the AVP17?

Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 31 Jan 2008, 08:28 am
It is too early to confirm the features until the chip set has been evaluated in March :(.
Nuforce always take care of existing customers.
Offcourse we will offer trade-in program.  :)
We have to determine the cost of AVP-32 before we can announce the trade-in. 
It is still too early to determine the list price of AVP-32. My best guess is between $2K and $3K.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: DigitalLF on 9 Feb 2008, 01:44 am
i would like to see that there is a option that will turn of all leds and the display...

seem quite simple but for me it would be a dream come true.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 13 Feb 2008, 10:17 pm
a couple of additional things I would change from the AVP17:

1. it should have a memory of last setting/input used.

2. there are only 3 optical inputs

3. you should be able to assign the digital/analog inputs rather than have predefineds only.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 5 Mar 2008, 07:40 pm
One thing on Dolby Audio Processing on the AVP17- I really cannot tell the difference between the MOVIE/MUSIC/VIRTUAL/EX Modes where as I could tell on my Marantz.

This is something that maybe should be looked into when designing the AVP32.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 14 Apr 2008, 03:36 pm
Jason,

any updates on the "AVP 32"??

First Off - I am REALLY enjoying the sound of the AVP 17 coupled with the SE AMP, but after using it for 4 months, I have come to the conclusion that:

1. a lot of features discussed on this forum are a must for anybody who is paying over $1,000 for a half-decent sound processor - otherwise there is nor reason not to move to a product like Cary Cinema 11/Anthem or even future Arcam/Integra/Denon products if you want an all-around quality sound processor

2. the HT functions (audio) and menus are minimal in terms of optionality - is there any way to produce a firmware that can fix some of the problems such as:

a. remembering last inputs (every time I switch to AUX its starts of in ANALOG instead of OPTICAL which I use it for)
b. the dolby button sometimes does not work, gets stuck in EX mode - and then have to go to sub menu
c. there should be a PURE (call it BYPASS) mode for Mutli-Channel

I really like your product, but in order to stay competitive in this (HT - not 2-channel) market you need products that not only look good and sound good, but are flexible in terms of functionality.

cheers.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 15 Apr 2008, 02:10 pm
I just realized something that would be nice.....

have unique function settings for different inputs.... so DVD can be on DOLBY/MULTI automatically and CD can  be on BYPASS...etc
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 16 Apr 2008, 09:22 pm
I have 9 v2 SE's fronts, 9 v1, for the other 5.  The best!! VMPS RM 30's.  Work great together.  Weak link is my Rotel 1068 pre/pro- even though it's decent.

I have just looked at the new Marrantz 8003, about to become available.  That unit defines the feature set for a modern pre/pro, in some ways similar features with Integra 9.8.  It will street between 2K and 2500.  I don't know if it will sound great, but if it does, it will be the one in that price range to beat.  I tried and was not impressed with the Cary 11, it sounded better than the Rotel (more slam, better dynamics, clarity, bass integration), but sounded edgy and unnatural in my room, and the features , including the EQ, were finicky to say the least. 

If NuForce offers something similar to the upcoming Marantz, and emphasizes SQ, NuForce is always my first choice, I just think they have the sound right and some of the best technology.  The amps are revealing and beautiful without being analytical.  I tried a lot of amps, nothing else came close.  I'd look for the same in the NuForce preamp.  I agree with Jason to focus on the 2K to 2500 range.

I also agree with others who have said here that NF should go with Cary's philosophy of focusing on sound - NF's strength.  I don't really care about the Video processing - I go directly from DVD player to TV any way.

So key features:  HDMI 1.3a for music playback, with passthrough, HD tuner, an EQ program and quality mic., very high quality audio processing for redbook, SACD, DVD-A, Dolby, DTS, etc processing, including HD master etc, great bass management with small increments of adjustment, good delay set up, SACD playback via HDMI, DVD-A playback via HDMI, and most of all, a really good analogue section (I have an external DAC), are key components for me.  It's mostly about the sound quality for NuForce customers and we want to use this unit to take advantage of all the sound formats.  If the 2 channel SQ is so good you don't need a separate 2 channel preamp, that would justify a 2500 or higher price tag.

(PS: Many have gone with the P9 for 2 channel greatness, and I understand that is an amazing, amazing piece.  With that, I'd love to see P9 quality with Parasound 2100 feature set for an HT bypass two channel pre)

My two cents, thanks for considering these ideas.  Pete
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 17 Apr 2008, 12:27 am
I have no interest in a tuner being built in to an AVP...a good stand-alone tuner will kill any toss-in piece, especially if its full of "HD" crapola. I just want the lossless HD (as in, actual high definition) codecs, stellar (and well isolated) video processing/switching, and stereo and multi-channel "pure" (separate power supply) analog pass-through. The rest can be added per user need. At the moment, I feel that the Bryston SP2 is the standard to which all others shall be judged (cost no object) in terms of "last gen" gear, and if someone (like NuForce) could top/meet that at a better price point, I'll be sold.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 18 Apr 2008, 12:29 am
I have no interest in a tuner being built in to an AVP...a good stand-alone tuner will kill any toss-in piece, especially if its full of "HD" crapola. I just want the lossless HD (as in, actual high definition) codecs, stellar (and well isolated) video processing/switching, and stereo and multi-channel "pure" (separate power supply) analog pass-through. The rest can be added per user need. At the moment, I feel that the Bryston SP2 is the standard to which all others shall be judged (cost no object) in terms of "last gen" gear, and if someone (like NuForce) could top/meet that at a better price point, I'll be sold.

I guess the question for NuForce is how many of these priorities can they put into this, and try to stay in that 2 to 2.5K range, while maintaining really good SQ.  There are so many things we're asking a pre/pro to do now - AND - at the same time, provide great sound.  Kudos to Jason and the crew for taking our input into account.  Pete
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 2 May 2008, 03:42 pm
So Jason/Casey.....

how are things going with the new AVP32 - we eagerly await some news..... have you thought about having some beta testers???
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 3 May 2008, 08:44 pm
We are still waiting for the HDMI decoding chipset to be certified and released to complete the prototype :(.  I don't expect AVP-32 until early 2009.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 24 Jul 2008, 09:20 pm
Hi Jason et al,

In case anyone is still following this threat....I've been experimenting with other pre/pros with 1.3 HDMI.  I can see why Jason is concerned with the time it will take to work out the bugs - there are authentication and handshake issues.

None of the units I'm trying have the sound quality I'm looking for.  It's making me rethink whether the wiring benefits of 1.3 are worth it yet.   Maybe the AMP16/17 approach really is best - provide really great analogue put throughs for SACD, Blueray, DVD-A, and internal decoding for CD, and standard DVD's.  IF that's the approach, you will need at least two and maybe three SETS of 7.1 channel inputs since there is no player I know of that does Blueray/master HD AND DVD-A and SACD that internally decodes all of those and sends it out via analogue jacks.

Long and short of it is, I can see the dilemma you guys are facing in the pre/pro arena.  Thanks for opening this forum.  P

If any question, I'm at pdmwrx@yahoo.com
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 26 Jul 2008, 05:24 am
We are considering a preamp (several sets of 7.1, including down mixing) specifically for this purpose. It is still on the drawing board though.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: LowFi on 5 Aug 2008, 07:11 am
Aha..
May I hope this is a preamp with no radio/video capability's whatsoever, multiple 7.1 inputs and with a modular solution for the digital input (AVP16/17 capability) which will be upgradeable when AVP32 has peaked.

My situation:
PS3 with only digital output
5.1 capability
SD connected 5.1
Planning for HQ BD connected 5.1/7.1
(Bass mgnmnt, delay in BD-player due to avoid uncompress/re-compress issues)

Title: video delay
Post by: DB0673 on 9 Aug 2008, 07:25 pm
More and more Companies (Onkyo, Yamaha etc) are running into big trouble with their audio processing being too slow with the new lossless codecs . They might have put in a fixed 40ms delay even when the delay is at 0. This results in an uncorrectable lip sync issue. You should consider a video delay for the HDMI signal then the normal audio delay can sync things up

Read the threads on AVS forum under the Onkyo firmware update in the Receiver forum.

People are begging for a solution

Don't end up in the same box

At least don't have any built in audio delay

Of course you need audio delay also just no fixed amount added in to whatever you dial in
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Psilonaught on 17 Aug 2008, 10:51 am
guys of those who have the AVP17 how does this stack up as a front channel DAC? I currently use the DAC version of the well respected Cairn FOG3 CDP but want to replace my crappy Sony AV amp with a processor but am concerned about the 2ch quality.

I was looking at a DAX Decade or Mark Levinson 30S, would the AVP17 get thrashed by these examples??
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: musicman06 on 19 Aug 2008, 05:04 am
Psilonaught you may want to start a new thread or pull up one of the AVP17 threads here. This thread is for what people want in the yet to be released AVP32.

Anyway, I have the AVP16 which is basically the same as the 17. I prefer my Paradisea+ to the NuForce. The soundstage is much better with the DAC. The AVP16 is a good HT processor though. Also, the left surround channel did crap out on mine after maybe a year, though I think it was from a loose connection. Yet the amp was fine.

Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 4 Sep 2008, 04:27 pm
We are considering a preamp (several sets of 7.1, including down mixing) specifically for this purpose. It is still on the drawing board though.

Cool.  This seems like the most audiophile way to go with the new formats and never having to worry about when the newest HDMI version comes out.   Of course, going this way means you have to have very good source components.  I see this as a great solution for audiophile first people like me (My TV can do the video switching), SQ is paramount.  The only downside to this is that there are lots and lots of high quality interconnects to buy and hide.  I think that trade off is worth it.  There's a new unit on the mkt (P7) that takes this approach, albeit with just 2 7.1 inputs.  I like the idea, but would prefer NuForce's implementation I'm sure.

Also, I'd wish for this analogue unit to be nearly a peer to your own 2 channel preamplifiers, so one can have it all in one unit.

I'm going to wait for you guys to come up with something, because no pre/pro I've tried to date has the combination of clarity, slam, bass control, imaging, details, air, and natural, engaging and sweet sound production that I discovered in your AMPS. 

It sounds like you're going to offer (eventually) both an HDMI fully featured AVR, as well as an audiophile 7.1 channel preamp, that leaves the video processing and switching out of the, er, picture.  Eagerly awaiting both ...
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Kenobi on 5 Sep 2008, 05:00 pm
I too am eagerly waiting for this to replace my Proceed AVP2.  Hopefully, the pre and DAC section will be up to par with this unit if not outright surpass it.  I have been a NuForce convert ever since my intro to their Ref 9SE V2 and MCH3SE amps.  A worthy pre/pro compliment to the mighty amps would do the company proud and all customers loyal. 

The suggestions thus far from this thread have been interesting and hopefully will pave the way for their implementation best suited for the unit and market and at the right price point.

Regards,

Kenobi :thumb:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 8 Sep 2008, 06:07 pm
Too much pressure for us  :cry:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: msallen on 12 Sep 2008, 12:23 pm
I would want the ability to preset the sampling rate for each input so that the preamp doesn't have to resynch.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 14 Sep 2008, 03:08 pm
Too much pressure for us  :cry:


I can see you're kidding about that, but still wanna say, you guys really are awesome.  Nothing else sounds as real and natural and engaging as NuForce gear.  What we're asking for in options on an AVP32 must be pretty overwhelming.

In the meantime, just to keep the pressure up, one more request:  I could live with a lesser pre/pro while awaiting the AVP 32, if there were a unit like the P9 bypass pre for 2 channel that also had analogue bass management.  My VMPS RM 30's sound cleanest to my ears when cut off at around 70, saving all the energy for what's above 70,  and letting the sub deal with what's below.  So it'd be great to be able to keep that set up in 2 channel when I bypass.  Any possibility of a P9 like pre with a sub out feature?  (apologize this is slightly off the AV32 topic!  But related to the HT setup)
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 16 Oct 2008, 03:46 pm
Any updates on the AVP32?
golf
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 22 Oct 2008, 01:56 pm
Jason
Has the AVP32 been canceled?
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: EDS_ on 22 Oct 2008, 02:48 pm
FWIIW I would be VERY interested.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 22 Oct 2008, 06:46 pm
AVP-32 has been on hold waiting for a decoding chip from a vendor. If the vendor fails to deliver, then AVP-32 is dead.

The trend in the high-end bluray DVDP and our own core competency convinced us that a multi-channel preamp (with sub in and sub out mixing) offers a better audio quality.

New generation of high-end blu-ray players can provide 192Khz, 24bit analog output per channel.
http://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/news/Details.aspx?NewsId=23886 (http://www.cdrinfo.com/sections/news/Details.aspx?NewsId=23886)

So we're proposing this solution for high-end customers:
Use a decent receiver or AVP (a lot of these can be found at <$1000) to connect all the "non-high-end" sources and send the decoded 7.1 output to Nuforce 5 x 8 channel preamp.
Connect your high-end blu-ray DVDP 7.1 (that provides 192khz, 24bit output quality per channel) outputs to Nuforce. 

This is all I have for now, we'll post new information as soon as possible.

Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 22 Oct 2008, 09:46 pm
Jason,

I am sorry to hear these news.

My hope is that the AVP32 project doesn't end up dead - I could wait for another year or 2 to get the product/technology right since there is still not much Blu-Ray content out there.

btw. are you using the Cirrus Logic CS49700 that is in Cary Cinema 11a?

thanks.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 29 Oct 2008, 06:25 am
Read the thread about Cary Audio's Cinema 11 here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809659&page=70 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809659&page=70)

We decided that it is not worth getting into HDMI HD audio decoding. The resulting sound quality will not be good enough for serious audiophiles.  There are too many decent AVP for $1500 or less.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: sac8d4 on 30 Oct 2008, 01:57 am
Bah, sounds like its offically dead now :bawl: What about offering an a more inclusive AVP of some of the features that potential customers might want on a new AVP sans HD audio decoding?
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 31 Oct 2008, 07:15 am
It is difficult to invest in something that has very short shelf life and market demand, when HDMI is not included.

For audiophiles, our main objectives are to get the best sound out of a DVDP or other stereo sources
We are also struggling with having a system that can sound the best for 2 channel as well as home theater. Some people have smaller room and prefer to have 4.0, 2.1, or 3.1 system. Some people live in apartments and can't really use subwoofer. Some want to have a sub to complement stereo listening but find it hard to get the mixing right.

We should focus on what we do best and innovate from there, ie to come up with an innovative preamp to all of the above problems.
Title: Re: multi channel preamp, analogue
Post by: skiwrx on 4 Nov 2008, 03:51 pm
Hi Jason,

I can appreciate your reluctance to get into the HDMI/AVR fracas when there are fairly well priced units out there already that do a decent job.  Disappointed, because none of them will sound as good as NuForce, but understanding of it as a practical business decision.  It's true, we can buy one of those on the used market soon for cheap, use it for movies etc, and then use NuForce's new analogue preamp for music.

The above is made possible by new players out there that will output via 7.1 analogue.  As noted above, I sense that some of the universal players/new source units will have excellent analogue sound via their 7.1 analogue outputs.  Wondering two things:

1.  When do you think NuForce's multi-channel pre will be coming out?  (Target date yet?)
2.  Have you heard any of the newest source gear (ie.  Oppo's new universal due out sometime soon, that will do CD, SD DVD, blueray, DTS-Master, etc, and output via analogue.  Or Marantz's BD8002?)  Any recommendations?  It will be good to know what units will match up best with this setup.

Thanks, Pedro
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 5 Nov 2008, 08:51 am
The multi-channel preamp will be designed by Demian Martin, who designed our P-9 so you can be assured of the performance and sound quality. It is in the pipeline  :(.  We know it is urgent, the "good" news is that the economy sucks big time and there is no hurry to bring it out, hopefully more people will be willing to buy later next year.

We heard the OPPO bluray player (prototype version), sounds very good, but we don't know about their release schedule.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 31 Mar 2009, 03:40 pm
Jason
There is a rumor that the AVP-32 may be back in play?  Reported in Canuck Audio Mart that the AVP-17 is being cleared out for the AVP-32.  Can you clarify?
Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 1 Apr 2009, 11:29 am
AVP32 might be back but it is still too early to tell. We are waiting for prototype but still not firm date yet.
We will also make an announcement with regards to OPPO new blu-ray with Nuforce Edition for enhanced audio.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 1 Apr 2009, 11:55 am
Both are very good news.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: cmryan21 on 1 Apr 2009, 07:38 pm
Jason, do you have a time frame on the Nuforce Edition Oppo player? I was about to spring for a Pioneer BDP-09 but I would be interested in trying a joint Nuforce-Oppo player if it won't be too terribly long before its available. And what part of the Oppo will Nuforce be tinkering with(here's hoping for the analog section)? Until Nuforce build's a prepro with built in decoders I'm certain I would be more than happy to use a Nuforce-Oppo player in conjunction with the analog bypass on my current prepro.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: sac8d4 on 2 Apr 2009, 01:22 am
 :o  What? An Oppo BDP-83 - Nuforce Edition.... I was selected for the EAP for the BDP-83 and it is quite an amazing player..... Did you mean that you guys are releasing your own version of the BDP-83? hmmm, am I going to have to get rid of my BdP-83 and upgrade :duh:?
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: phoenix_rising on 4 Apr 2009, 01:46 am
Read the thread about Cary Audio's Cinema 11 here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809659&page=70 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809659&page=70)

We decided that it is not worth getting into HDMI HD audio decoding. The resulting sound quality will not be good enough for serious audiophiles.  There are too many decent AVP for $1500 or less.

That does not sound right to me. If you look at something like what the high end pioneers have done jitter is virtually eliminated between the blu-ray player and the receiver and the quality is controlled more by the quality of the DAC than anything else and they use high end DAC's as well, it is the analog stage that colours everything not a jitter free digital solution. Nuforce should be looking at this as the solution and directly connecting into their amp from the processor so that more of the analog stages are removed not the other way around.

Just my 2c worth
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 14 Apr 2009, 01:42 pm
I agree - why else would we then replace the AVP-17 if the AVP-32 does not have HDMI audio decoding. I think that it doesn't make sense to make a 3-rd generation product that basically is the same unit as the 1st generation with minor tweaks.

Personally, I don't think that you should rush the product to market but rather wait and get it right - my guess is that most owners of the AVP-17 (or even 16) would not purchase a new processor that does not have HD audio decoding.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: persisting1 on 15 Apr 2009, 11:55 am
I agree - why else would we then replace the AVP-17 if the AVP-32 does not have HDMI audio decoding. I think that it doesn't make sense to make a 3-rd generation product that basically is the same unit as the 1st generation with minor tweaks.

Personally, I don't think that you should rush the product to market but rather wait and get it right - my guess is that most owners of the AVP-17 (or even 16) would not purchase a new processor that does not have HD audio decoding.

+1  :duh:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 20 Apr 2009, 07:44 pm
AVP-32 will have HD audio decoding. We haven't had the chance to evaluate the prototype so no further information here.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: EAmin on 22 Apr 2009, 12:42 am
PLEASE, PLEASE bring back the AVP32.  I want an all Nuforce HT with the Oppo blu-ray player.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: Toka on 22 Apr 2009, 10:42 pm
:o  What? An Oppo BDP-83 - Nuforce Edition.... I was selected for the EAP for the BDP-83 and it is quite an amazing player..... Did you mean that you guys are releasing your own version of the BDP-83? hmmm, am I going to have to get rid of my BdP-83 and upgrade :duh:?

Yes...more info please.  :drool:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 22 Apr 2009, 11:33 pm
Please do not ask OPPO about this. I mentioned in this forum by mistake  :oops:
We will make the announcement at the appropriate time.  Please, stop asking about it  :duh:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: skiwrx on 7 Jun 2009, 10:29 pm
Hi There, checking in on status!

I continue to agree with you that having a really good 7.1 analogue pre/pro is the best way for music.  I've listened to a decent 7.1 analogue set up and compared it to a high end AVP with HDMI and internal decoding of HD etc.  For music, the analogue set up was superior- which is amazing because the AVP set up had one technology that really works well for movies:  auto set up/multi-EQ.  The analogue set up  sounded more natural and convincing for music, while the set up with Multi-EQ was more convincing for movies.  Perhaps the room correction function could be integrated into a player like the Oppo some day.

Ciao for now, hope things are still developing...

Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 20 Jul 2009, 11:45 pm
Jason
Any updates??  I'm really impressed with the capabilities of the AVP-17 and am hoping the 32 is still a go!
Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: EAmin on 14 Aug 2009, 06:55 pm
Can we see some hot women posing next to the AVP32?
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 14 Aug 2009, 10:40 pm
It is still being debugged. No way it is going to come out this year.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: golfugh on 15 Aug 2009, 01:19 am
Jason
Any information on it at all?
Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 29 Oct 2009, 09:16 pm
OK guys.... need to keep this thread alive - and a reminder to Jason and the crew that we are still waiting for their UBER AVP.....
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 30 Oct 2009, 08:39 am
Still stuck in development.

We are looking into another project that is easier to manage:
take HDMI PCM stream from source devices, split, re-clock and convert to 7.1 analog outputs.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: antr on 30 Oct 2009, 04:09 pm
Hi Jason...
My Lexicon MV-5 processor are using there Logic 7 for decoding PCM stream from source and that sounds great.

//Anders
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 2 Nov 2009, 04:21 pm
Still stuck in development.

We are looking into another project that is easier to manage:
take HDMI PCM stream from source devices, split, re-clock and convert to 7.1 analog outputs.

Jason...... honestly, then I can just buy the Oppo Blue ray player...... can you tell us definitely if there will be a product so that we can realistically manage our expectation or focus our attention to other brands for a pre/pro.

thanks.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 3 Nov 2009, 06:58 am
I don't think you want to wait that long for our AVP or whatever. It is unlikely to come out before mid 2010.

Regarding the OPPO BDP-83, wait one more week for some good news.

Jason
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 3 Nov 2009, 06:18 pm
I don't think you want to wait that long for our AVP or whatever. It is unlikely to come out before mid 2010.

Regarding the OPPO BDP-83, wait one more week for some good news.

Jason

hmmmm...... hear no evil... speak no evil...  Mid 2010 is OK.... but it better be good, cheaper and more reliable than the Cary Cinema 11a..... plus XLRs (like the AVP 17)....
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: sac8d4 on 4 Nov 2009, 03:11 am
I don't think you want to wait that long for our AVP or whatever. It is unlikely to come out before mid 2010.

Regarding the OPPO BDP-83, wait one more week for some good news.

Jason

hmm, I am sendning my Oppo BDp-83 to be modded by Dan modwright very soon, maybe I need to pick up Nuforce's when its out for a little shootout
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: nuforce-casey on 4 Nov 2009, 07:56 pm
Hi,
The new Oppo SE version will have a completely different DAC.   Unless other modification are going to replace the DAC, they are not likely to achieve the performance of the Oppo SE due to the new DAC from ESS (the Sabre DAC), 2 of them will be used in the SE, 1 for dedicated 2-channel, and the other 8-channel for movies.

Nuforce Edition rides on the better SE platform to offer significant and all-out performance enhancement by installing better parts and optimized important circuit that Oppo deemed "too extreme".
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: sac8d4 on 5 Nov 2009, 12:44 am
any idea of pricing?

Modwright seems to do some rather substantial mods such as
Upgrade of stock power supplies.
Installation of Master Clock with Bursen Clock!
Installation of proprietary, dedicated analog power supply of our design.
Upgrade of a total of NINE (9) analog channels with our discrete FET-based circuit. Includes Stereo outs and all Multi-Channel outs, except sub out.
Shielding and damping mods to chassis and stock supplies.

Jason, Care to comment how much different the SE version maybe be vs the standard version and the modders like Dan?
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: ted_b on 5 Nov 2009, 02:50 am
Hi,
The new Oppo SE version will have a completely different DAC.   Unless other modification are going to replace the DAC, they are not likely to achieve the performance of the Oppo SE due to the new DAC from ESS (the Sabre DAC), 2 of them will be used in the SE, 1 for dedicated 2-channel, and the other 8-channel for movies.

Nuforce Edition rides on the better SE platform to offer significant and all-out performance enhancement by installing better parts and optimized important circuit that Oppo deemed "too extreme".

Casey,
So when you say "NuForce rides on the better SE platform" are you saying that Oppo Digital will have an SE, and that NuForce will improve upon it?  When first leaked it was thought that the NuForce WAS the SE.  Thx

Edit:  Nevermind, Oppo has mentioned the SE in a response on AVS.
Here is OPPO's response to (posters) inquiry.

"Unfortunately at this time we are not yet divulging any information about the player, including its price or its release date. We would recommend checking our website in the next week or two for information related to the BDP-83 SE.

The main enhancement of this player is a highly optimized analog audio section which takes full advantage of the ESS Sabre32 Ultra DAC.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: rustydoglim on 5 Nov 2009, 09:29 am
Oops. We were involved in the development and that's all I can say.  I am preparing the product page information and will make an announcement as soon as I can coordinate with OPPO.
The SE is not really a mod but a high-end version. No matter how you mod an existing board, it won't sound better than a better design. We should be able to ship in 2 weeks so just hold on for a little longer.

Jason
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: soloz2 on 5 Nov 2009, 11:35 am
Interesting, I've had a BDP-83 since day one.  looking forward to news for a better one!
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 13 Nov 2009, 09:50 pm
OPPO is why AVP 32...... is a remote reality... or so it appears.... still it would be a shame....
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: STEF on 17 Nov 2009, 08:56 am
Why not thinking about an A/V receiver : the combination of AVP32 + MCH product ?  :green:
Title: Re: AVP32 - what specs do users want!
Post by: plivac on 5 Jan 2010, 08:42 pm
So... I have thrown in the towel and am replacing the AVP 17 with something more versatile considering the amount of inputs I have - and am thinking of getting the Anthem D2V - any views/comments on compatibility with the MCH or personal experiences?