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Other Stuff => Archived Circles => Industry/Sponsored Threads => Topic started by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Oct 2009, 02:13 am

Title: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Oct 2009, 02:13 am
Hello All,

 Looking for a DAC that incorporates the new ESS Technologies Sabre 32bit ES9018 DAC chip. We are making them. Volume/gain control, RCA outputs, Inputs we will have : RCA, optical, AES/EBU and USB 2.0 or up.
 I'm taking orders. $645 plus shipping from 60004 once they arrive in the states, probably $25 to ship.50% down,remaining balance due at time of shipping

$745 once they arrive in states if not pre ordered

 

email: bill@morningstaraudio.com
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 22 Oct 2009, 02:28 am
That's exciting news and should be a nice alternative to Twisted Pear Audio Sabre offerings. 

For me personally, the deal will be sealed *IF* the output stage is not the ubiquitous op-amp circuit but a true discrete stage.  Or, a real tube stage, not just a tube buffer stuck at the end of an op-amp output stage..
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 22 Oct 2009, 02:53 am
I'm taking orders. $600 plus shipping from 60004 once they arrive in the states

And when approximately will that be?
 
Any other details beyond which DAC chip?  Any photos?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: EDS_ on 22 Oct 2009, 03:24 am
Color me very interested.  Pics, ETA, and a few more details when possible. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Tbadder1 on 22 Oct 2009, 03:50 am
I feel the same way as Jon L, and would willingly order if the op-amp circuit is skipped in lieu of a genuine tube stage.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 22 Oct 2009, 04:10 am
Very interesting. Also curious about tube option and what the non-tube output stage consists of. Mmmm.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bigjppop on 22 Oct 2009, 12:30 pm
Another one here that would love to see a tubed version.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 26 Oct 2009, 01:55 am
Well, after talking to Alex Yeung yesterday we have decided to change a few things.
 Don't worry, were still using the ESS Sabre ES9018 32 bit DAC chip.
What the dac will not have though is XLR output as we were going to have it but after reading comments that unless it was true balanced (ie.. no op-amps) which would have raised the price about 35%-40% to do it correctly we decided to eliminate the XLR's.
 What it will have though is a tube amp stage-not just a tube thrown on the end as a buffer. We will also implement a switch for bypassing the tube output so the signal will be untouched.This should give you the best of both worlds, if wanting a touch of warmth for vocals,jazz,acoustic,or late night listening hit the tube , for clarity,speed,stark reality bypass the tube.
 It will have a volume control also.
USB,optical,AES/EBU,and RCA inputs.
 Now the bad news,the tube output will cost $45 more to implement so I have to pass it on to you.
 Preorder price is now $645.00
 When they arrive in the states $745.00
 I apologize for the added expense.
 It will take 2 months to build all of them and another month to ship them here by boat and clear customs.
 If you would like it sooner and want to pay to have it air shipped to you we can also provide that service.

 Thank you for considering,
 Bill O'Connell
email:bill@morningstaraudio.com
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 26 Oct 2009, 02:12 am
Bill,
 
1.  Any word on whether the USB input will decode 24/96?
 
2.  If it does have op-amps, will they be socketed?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 26 Oct 2009, 02:16 am
Very exciting news.

With the new tubed design, when the tubes are not engaged, will there be op-amps in the output stage?

Looking forward to more details. Counting my pennies and scouring the rig & closets for potential things to sell...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 26 Oct 2009, 02:21 am
I don't think I've seen the EE products in black.
 
Can I have mine in black?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 26 Oct 2009, 04:07 am

With the new tubed design, when the tubes are not engaged, will there be op-amps in the output stage?


That's THE question for me as well.  If the tube output stage (not just buffer) can be "bypassed," something else has to be acting as the output stage.  Is it going to be op-amps (in I/V stage as well?) or discrete stage (mosfet, etc)..
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sac8d4 on 26 Oct 2009, 04:10 am
I don't think I've seen the EE products in black.
 
Can I have mine in black?
 
Steve


Consider my interest peaked....

I have seen the minimax cd player offered in Black but not sure about the rest of the EE line. I third the notion of offering it in black.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 26 Oct 2009, 06:46 am
Hi everybody, this is Alex from Eastern Electric Audio. I see I like join the great talk about our up coming DAC. Ok here let me try....
- I am making it black in color :P
- the tube output is a genuine tube amplification stage, not buffer
- there will also be an opamp output for your choice by tap of a switch in the front penal. Well I intend to have a socket of the output opamp if you want to play with it.

Cheers.

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 26 Oct 2009, 07:10 am
Hi everybody, this is Alex from Eastern Electric Audio. I see I like join the great talk about our up coming DAC. Ok here let me try....
- I am making it black in color :P
- the tube output is a genuine tube amplification stage, not buffer
- there will also be an opamp output for your choice by tap of a switch in the front penal. Well I intend to have a socket of the output opamp if you want to play with it.

Cheers.

Alex

Welcome to AudioCircle, Alex.  Have you guys considered a simple discrete SS output stage, perhaps using a pair of Mosfets. 

Frankly, many of us don't want or need that switch for the op-amp output.  Having a switch to toggle between tube output and real discrete SS output would be *INCREDIBLE* and essentially the first in the industry :drool:

However, since cost is an issue, how about offering 2 versions of the DAC, one with the tube output and another with discrete SS output? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 26 Oct 2009, 07:28 am
Ho Jon,

From my experience, a simple discrete like a pair of FET or bipolar can hardly sound very good. The opamp is not an expensive device but it can sound quite decent if you use it right. For example the early BBC studio turntable used build in opamp based phono stage, it still sounds increbily well, we do have an unit demotrating in our Hong Kong show room. Tube is one very "discrete" circuit by the way  :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 26 Oct 2009, 12:55 pm
I like the idea of an op-amp socket, there are some folks who get very interested in op-amp swapping (on the Beresford DACs for example), which is easy as can be when sockets are employed.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nature boy on 26 Oct 2009, 08:13 pm
Bill and Alex,

Great news. 

Regards,

NB
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mca on 26 Oct 2009, 08:26 pm
Quote
However, since cost is an issue, how about offering 2 versions of the DAC, one with the tube output and another with discrete SS output?

I'd rather be able to switch between tube and SS output for a measly $45 extra  :P
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 26 Oct 2009, 09:31 pm
Quote
However, since cost is an issue, how about offering 2 versions of the DAC, one with the tube output and another with discrete SS output?

I'd rather be able to switch between tube and SS output for a measly $45 extra  :P

Me, too.  But what I really prefer is op-ampless discrete SS output, e.g. Northstar DAC, Ayre DAC, Twisted Pear Audio "Counterpoint" discrete output, etc. 

Oh, well, I guess I can deal with socketed op-amps.  Time to brush off my OPA627's and perhaps buy some Burson/Audio-GD "discrete op-amps"  :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 27 Oct 2009, 06:26 am
Alex,
 
Will the USB input decode greater than 16/48 (24/96?  24/192?), and will there be a BNC connector for the S/PDIF input?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 27 Oct 2009, 10:14 am
Alex,
 
Will the USB input decode greater than 16/48 (24/96?  24/192?), and will there be a BNC connector for the S/PDIF input?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

The USB only supports up to 48KHz. We do not have the BNC connector, but the RCA and optical for the S/PDIF input.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 30 Oct 2009, 08:32 pm
Bill or Alex, any more specifics on this DAC?  I'm *THIS* close to pre-ordering it. 

Have you chosen which tube type and which tube topology to use?

Is the I/V stage done with op-amp, and is there another op-amp stage after I/V stage for the "SS output"?

Most importantly, when will it ship? 

TIA.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 31 Oct 2009, 08:25 am
Hi Jon,

After the low pass filter, the analog signal will be fed to the tube or ss amp stage by a selector switch. By tapping this switch, the signal goes either to the tube or the ss stage. The tube will be a single tube amp stage and the ss will be opamp. The tube will be a 12AU7. To conclude, the tube and the ss stage they stand alone each other, you only choose which one to put out (amplify) the final analog signal.

I hope the above helps.

Oh by the way, the shipping is about 2-3 month as this is the first lot and I hope everything runs smoothly :P

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 3 Nov 2009, 12:27 am
Just some more information from Alex:
----------
Great!  Thanks for the info.  2 quick Q's:

1.  Can E80CC tube be used in the 12AU7 spot just like the EE preamp, which I used to use?

2.  Is the SS output going to use dual op-amp or single op-amps and be socketed?  Thanks.

"1. Yes you can plug in the E80CC
2. it will be a socketed dual opamp aa

Cheers !

Alex"



Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 6 Nov 2009, 06:54 pm
It might be premature to ask as I realize this isn't a finished project yet, but is there any idea how this thing will do with respect to reducing jitter? 

My main transport will probably be a Squeezbox Duet (w/ unmodified parts connection PSU) and I'm wondering if it would make sense picking up a Monarchy DIP (48/96?) or springing for the Boulder digital mods for that matter...

Forgive the question if its obvious to the informed, but I am a digital separates newbie.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 6 Nov 2009, 07:25 pm
The DAC chip used in this DAC is ESS Sabre32, which eliminates jitter internally. I use it now in a DIY project and can attest that jitter problems from Squeezebox and Sonos network players or cheap CDP are eliminated.

I had EE minimax preamp with 12AU7 gain and buffer stages, Alex knows line stage tube design! My favorite 12au7 tube is the stock EE chinese tube, although I think I may be alone in that preference.... ;)  Ultra clean low distortion, no tubey sweetnin.... That's what this great chip deserves.

Will the DAC make use of the chip's internal 256 step, 32 bit digital volume control? It is software control of the chip's register. That allows 96dB of attenuation before dropping any bits from 16 bit CD playback. Then it can be connected directly to amplifiers with no VC digititis.
Thanks
Rich
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 6 Nov 2009, 07:29 pm
We'll have to wait for Alex to answer, but as in the previous post, richidoo is already implementing it and likes it.  Per the ESS Product Brief, one of the key features of the ESS Sabre32 chips is:
 
"Patented Time Domain Jitter Eliminator - unmatched audio clarity free from input clock jitter"
 
http://www.esstech.com/PDF/Sabre32%20DAC%20PF%20081217.pdf (http://www.esstech.com/PDF/Sabre32%20DAC%20PF%20081217.pdf)
 
Sounds promising!
 
Steve
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 6 Nov 2009, 09:38 pm
The DAC chip used in this DAC is ESS Sabre32, which eliminates jitter internally. I use it now in a DIY project and can attest that jitter problems from Squeezebox and Sonos network players or cheap CDP are eliminated.

I had EE minimax preamp with 12AU7 gain and buffer stages, Alex knows line stage tube design! My favorite 12au7 tube is the stock EE chinese tube, although I think I may be alone in that preference.... ;)  Ultra clean low distortion, no tubey sweetnin.... That's what this great chip deserves.

Will the DAC make use of the chip's internal 256 step, 32 bit digital volume control? It is software control of the chip's register. That allows 96dB of attenuation before dropping any bits from 16 bit CD playback. Then it can be connected directly to amplifiers with no VC digititis.
Thanks
Rich

Terrific to hear!  I'd read something suggesting that but wasn't sure what to expect.  Forgive my ignorance again, but then can a SB Duet streaming lossless audio and doing bit-perfect to this DAC take utilize it to its fullest capability (i.e. would there be any benefit to a re-clocker in the mix) or should I just go straight to?

Finally, if the SB Duet is capable of bit perfect and the jitter problems are greatly reduced by the DAC's chip, would there be any real appreciable benefit to sending this SB out to Boulder to perform the digital stage modifications?  (I'm hoping not)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 6 Nov 2009, 11:00 pm
Those familiar with Sabre32 DAC chip, can you confirm that Sabre32 DAC chip automatically upsamples to 864 kHz internally, so it will always have the Asynchronous upsampling "on"?

If true, I'm not so sure I like this always-on asynch upsampling feature...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: TV Man on 7 Nov 2009, 12:47 am
Jon,

Not sure what the frequency is, but 834khz sounds about right. The upsampler is always on... it's integral to the Buffalo jitter reduction scheme.

I come from the no oversampling, or synchronous oversampling camp. That said, the Twisted Pear version of the Buffalo is the best DAC I have heard opamps and all. It gets the flow of music right. Detail is remarkable, but not aggressive. They got the digital filter part right. I prefer it to all the TDA154x and PCM63 DACs I've had. It's better than the PCM1794 too, although the PCM1794 might be a touch more dynamic..

With a properly implemented tube output stage ala Eastern Electric I can think more about amps and speakers because I know what my next source will be...   
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 7 Nov 2009, 12:59 am
Hi Guys,
 Alex should be chiming in shortly, remember he is 13 hours ahead of us.
 I wish I could answer your questions but Alex really is the man you want to talk too.
 I love the fact that the E80CC can be used the DAC. Fantastic tube especially the D getter pinched waist version.
 I remember running a pair of them in our little preamp. Dynamic to say the least. Retrieval of all that was in the recording was stellar.

 FYI: Just about a week left on the preorder pricing.Jump on it if you can as I promise it will be a really special DAC.
 Thank you all for considering,
 Bill
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 7 Nov 2009, 01:08 am
Bill, can we assume the DAC will come with a remote control for remote volume control?

Approximately how large will the DAC be, along the lines of EE BBA or EE CDP?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 7 Nov 2009, 04:30 am
Bill,
 
Is the casework completed?  Can you show us a photo?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: TV Man on 7 Nov 2009, 07:42 am
A correction.

I was looking at Wavelength Audio's Denominator module that uses the Sabre32 chip on their website. They use syncronous clocking, so there is a mode that allows the Sabre32 to use sync instead of async sampling. Hopefully Eastern Electric will use the syncronous mode.

Apologies for initially posting wrong information.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 7 Nov 2009, 02:56 pm
I replaced Altmann Attraction DAC (Phillips 1543 I think) with this. A couple of swaps back and forth was all it took to convince me to pack up the Altmann. It is peaceful and natural like NOS, but extended and unbelievably resolving, with no treble irritation.

I plug my stock Sonos ZP-80 straight into the DAC with a Home Depot analog IC for digital wire. I feel no desire to change anything. ;)  The Altmann had UPCI jitter attenuation scheme, which did help on mild cases, but the Sonos was unlistenable, the jitter is so bad in that thing. It all vanished with the Sabre32. Duet and Squeezebox have less jitter than Sonos and they were OK with Altmann and sounds the same as the Sonos on the buffalo DAC. It's the analog output that matters.

The Buffalo uses 4562 opamps which give great ballsy bass and very low distortion, clean sound, not lean, not thick. Stage is a little flat in depth compared to a tube, but otherwise excellent. I would be concerned about slobbering a vintage 6sn7 over this ultra clean DAC, but like I said, Alex's 12AU7 tube stage is the cleanest I have ever heard, plus space and air of a tube. 

Edit: I got nothing against slobbering 6sn7's I have them in my amp with 6sl7s and 300Bs, but not ideal for a DAC.  ;)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 8 Nov 2009, 12:08 am
rack mountable?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 9 Nov 2009, 03:28 pm
I think this dac would be better off by only having the tube output stage because that's where Eastern Electric's strength is. If the op-amp stage is inferior to the tube stage, then what's the point to add this extra component? And EE can keep the costs down a little bit.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 9 Nov 2009, 03:54 pm
We will see how well the op-amp stage is implemented. I'm not sure that Eastern Electric had offered an op-amp output stage (IIRC), so let's see what they can do with this one. I think that they are making a good decision to make the op-amp stage socketed, so that we can experiment with different op-amps, much the way one might tube roll.

And there are a number of very good reasons that one might want the option to switch back-and-forth. System synergy is very important, as we all know (hopefully), and there is a lot of personal preference involved as well in terms of tube vs. solid-state sound. And for those who listen to multiple genres of music, certain genres may be considered better suited for one genre than another. Heck, one may even find oneself changing up the sound because of one's mood.

And even with the switch between the two analog output stages, this remains the least expensive ESS Sabre based DAC that has caught my attention.

My two cents.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 9 Nov 2009, 04:19 pm
We will see how well the op-amp stage is implemented. I'm not sure that Eastern Electric had offered an op-amp output stage (IIRC), so let's see what they can do with this one. I think that they are making a good decision to make the op-amp stage socketed, so that we can experiment with different op-amps, much the way one might tube roll.

And there are a number of very good reasons that one might want the option to switch back-and-forth. System synergy is very important, as we all know (hopefully), and there is a lot of personal preference involved as well in terms of tube vs. solid-state sound. And for those who listen to multiple genres of music, certain genres may be considered better suited for one genre than another. Heck, one may even find oneself changing up the sound because of one's mood.

And even with the switch between the two analog output stages, this remains the least expensive ESS Sabre based DAC that has caught my attention.

My two cents.

I'd rather EE spend money on the part they're best capable to do. Down the chain, we still have the pre-amp/amp/integrated to adjust the sound for example. Just my thoughts though. One question: how to bypass the volume control on this dac since I'm using an integrated amp? (This volume control can be taken out too to further cut down the costs).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 9 Nov 2009, 04:21 pm
I'm in!

Bill - I will give you a call later today. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 9 Nov 2009, 04:36 pm
I don't think Alex has commented yet whether it is a digital or analog attenuator.
 
If it's a digital one, then having it all the way up would be the same as not having one in the circuit, and being a 32 bit control, those who wanted to use it could do so without losing any real meaningful resolution.
 
If it is analog, well then I suppose it could have some audible effect.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: chadh on 9 Nov 2009, 07:28 pm
 When it comes to using a USB input, there is a lot of talk from other manufacturers about the technology for grabbing the data from the USB connection.  They talk about synchronous or asynchronous modes, none of which I understand.  But apparently this makes a big difference to the amount of jitter the USB feed introduces.

Does the internal anti-jitter capacity of this new EE DAC make these considerations irrelevant?  I'm just trying to gauge the merits of this DAC relative to a the similarly priced Music Hall unit (given that I'm committed to some kind of PC audio option).

Chad
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 9 Nov 2009, 07:34 pm
Bill, Alex, and the legions of folks more knowledgeable than I am may weigh in on this, but my understanding of the ESS Sabre chip is that it removes much of the jitter problems associated with transports and DACs (meaning that you can get away with a less impressive transport with no major sonic compromises? We'll see). I may just be buying into the hype at this point, and I haven't heard the chip myself. But reviews of devices with ESS Sabre chips (such as the Peachtree Nova, which uses an older Sabre chip) and reviews of the chip on a circuit board provided by the chip manufacturer (see the Audiophilia review, and  I think there were others) suggest that this is the case. Time and first-hand experience will tell.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 9 Nov 2009, 08:25 pm
.....(given that I'm committed to some kind of PC audio option).

Chad,
 
Have you given any thought as to whether you will have high resolution audio files in your library?  If you plan to have your music library contain 24/96 (or higher) files (as I do), you won't be using the USB input, as that is limited to 16/48 due to the USB chip used.  (I believe that limitation would apply to the Music Hall 25.2 DAC as well)
 
If you do, you would need either an S/PDIF output in your computer (integrated or soundcard) or a separate USB to S/PDIF or FireWire to S/PDIF converter.
 
In either case, I am hoping that the "Patented Time Domain Jitter Eliminator" works well (well enough to have already been awarded an actual patent, as it doesn't say patent pending, but says "patented"!)
 
----------------------------------------
 
Bill & Alex,
 
Since you are taking pre-orders and plan to deliver in 2-3 months, I have to assume that the design details are finalized (and that all the posts about what features should be implemented or not could only apply to a later version or model at this point) and that you are now sending design files to PCB and case fabricators and ordering parts.
 
Since there are some of us undecided on the pre-order, could you read through the posts made since either of you last posted, and attempt to answer questions asked since then, to help us finalize our decision?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: chadh on 9 Nov 2009, 08:44 pm
.....(given that I'm committed to some kind of PC audio option).

Chad,
 
Have you given any thought as to whether you will have high resolution audio files in your library?  If you plan to have your music library contain 24/96 (or higher) files (as I do), you won't be using the USB input, as that is limited to 16/48 due to the USB chip used.  (I believe that limitation would apply to the Music Hall 25.2 DAC as well)
 
If you do, you would need either an S/PDIF output in your computer (integrated or soundcard) or a separate USB to S/PDIF or FireWire to S/PDIF converter.
 
In either case, I am hoping that the "Patented Time Domain Jitter Eliminator" works well (well enough to have already been awarded an actual patent, as it doesn't say patent pending, but says "patented"!)

 
Steve

Thanks for the thoughts, Steve. 

As it is, my whole collection is 16/44 and I'm unlikely to be replacing significant portions of of it any time soon.  Moreover, I'm pretty committed to buying music because it's music I like, rather than music that is produced and recorded brilliantly.  That probably means relatively little by way of high res files for for me, at least in the foreseeable future.  I don't think high-res capabilities will weigh heavily on my short-term buying decisions.

Chad
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 9 Nov 2009, 09:23 pm
Suggestion:  Have a switch on the front panel to select which input to decode.  Sabre is capable of doing it.  Then, people can have their PC, PS3, and other sources connected to the DAC and can use the DAC as a pre-amp.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 9 Nov 2009, 09:29 pm
Suggestion:  Have a switch on the front panel to select which input to decode.  Sabre is capable of doing it.  Then, people can have their PC, PS3, and other sources connected to the DAC and can use the DAC as a pre-amp.

That's why we need to hear from Bill and Alex.  I simply assumed there was an input selector switch like most DACs.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 9 Nov 2009, 09:34 pm
Or even better, automatic source selection, where the order that stuff is plugged in determines what is prioritzed, as in this device:

http://www.cs1.net/products/audio_authority/1177A.htm

A man can dream can't he?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 9 Nov 2009, 09:46 pm
I actually do not want or care for auto source selection, because I always have everything plugged in and I don't need the added complexity and defaulting to last selected is what I want.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 9 Nov 2009, 09:48 pm
My understanding is that Sabre can accept multiple inputs, and one can switch input by sending a command to Sabre.  In essence, Sabre has the digital switch built in.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 9 Nov 2009, 11:24 pm
Another Sabre dac to consider is the new Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1 which may come out before EE DAC and debuted on this year's RMAF: http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=396494&b_id=&find_groupid=18157 (http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/site/74030/117839/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=396494&b_id=&find_groupid=18157). It has a discrete output stage.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 9 Nov 2009, 11:29 pm
And the W4S model has the greater price that would one would associate with a discrete output stage and balanced design...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 9 Nov 2009, 11:49 pm
And the W4S model has the greater price that would one would associate with a discrete output stage and balanced design...

Good to know about.......thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 10 Nov 2009, 02:35 am
Hi Guys,
 I've been trying to reach Alex for a couple of days. He must be in the mainland working with the engineers. As soon as I hear from him he will give an update as I have left a few emails and told him many questions are being asked.
 Please be patient.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 10 Nov 2009, 02:19 pm
I'd rather EE spend money on the part they're best capable to do. Down the chain, we still have the pre-amp/amp/integrated to adjust the sound for example. Just my thoughts though. One question: how to bypass the volume control on this dac since I'm using an integrated amp? (This volume control can be taken out too to further cut down the costs).

Yeah there are really many personal preferences. I always trust my ears for the final results and that works for all the products so far  aa though I am pretty open to all different ideas  :wink: The volume will still be there and it cannot be bypassed. You will have some fun time of finding out the best sounding volume position to best match your integarted amp  :D

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 10 Nov 2009, 02:47 pm
The volume will still be there and it cannot be bypassed.

1. So, does that mean it is an analog volume control versus a digital one?
 
2. Is the tube inside the casework, or does it extend through the top or mounted completely on the top?  Do you have approximate case dimensions?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 10 Nov 2009, 02:57 pm
The volume will still be there and it cannot be bypassed.

1. So, does that mean it is an analog volume control versus a digital one?
 
2. Is the tube inside the casework, or does it extend through the top or mounted completely on the top?  Do you have approximate case dimensions?
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

1. yes it is
2. the tube is neither inside the chassis nor on top of it, it makes use of the same idea of the EE CD player that is plugged at the back. The dimension is about 280 x 186 x 58mm

Cheers !!


Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 10 Nov 2009, 03:19 pm
The volume will still be there and it cannot be bypassed.

1. So, does that mean it is an analog volume control versus a digital one?
 

Hi Steve,

1. yes it is


Oh, man.  I was hoping Sabre's internal 32 bit digital volume control was used, which *can* be bypassed.  At this price range, I'm assuming the analogue volume control is not a stepped attenuator but a pot and will NOT come with remote volume control  :icon_frown:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 10 Nov 2009, 08:30 pm
The analog controlled gain won't stop me!  I trust Alex's ear--something about this company's gear 'does it' for me.  Didn't get to hear their CDP, but I've had no interest in trying another Pre or Phono since November 2005...

Hopefully they can pull off another gem...

Can anyone else chime in on whether it would be worth while to have Boulder do the digital modifications to a squeezebox as a transport for a Sabre32 dac?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 10 Nov 2009, 08:53 pm
The analog controlled gain won't stop me!

And probably shouldn't stop anyone.  But I still have to wonder why the digital VC wasn't employed, as I can't come up with any negatives for a 32bit implementation on a signal already in the digital domain.  I could be wrong, but I also don't think it would cost any more.  But I am not an engineer, and Alex is.
 
Maybe some of these ideas including digital volume, remote control of input selection/volume, 24/96 USB input and a true 75ohm BNC connection could make an appearance on a future edition or SE model.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 10 Nov 2009, 10:01 pm
Adjusting volume on the DAC chip requires a separate microprocessor with analog input for the pot, then VC instructions are sent to the DAC on the data bus. It need not be expensive to implement, but the complexity would increase, especially programming. I thought a processor was needed to load the DAC register on startup, but maybe it can be set with passives. White paper tells the details.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 10 Nov 2009, 10:52 pm
Tell us more about the precision low jitter clock that you will be using.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 10 Nov 2009, 11:18 pm
I thought digital VC was frowned upon as it reduces resolution.  Is this not true? 

I certainly don't need a VC on a DAC:  SB3 -> EE DAC -> pre-amp gives me 3 VCs!  Seems like overkill for my set up. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 10 Nov 2009, 11:20 pm
Didn't get to hear their CDP, but I've had no interest in trying another Pre or Phono since November 2005...


I replaced my EE CDP with a SB3.  I am still a novice, but I thought the EE CPD sounded fantastic, and I have sorely missed it  (but I sure do love the convience of the SB).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 11 Nov 2009, 12:46 am
Adjusting volume on the DAC chip requires a separate microprocessor with analog input for the pot, then VC instructions are sent to the DAC on the data bus.

I thought you could use a digital encoder "pot" directly to the microprocessor, but I may be mistaken.
 
I thought digital VC was frowned upon as it reduces resolution.  Is this not true? 

It generally is, but with 32 bits of resolution, you can sacrifice some bits for volume control, and still end up with a great S/N ratio.
 
I plan not to use the volume control in my setup either, and would have it all the way up, but if there is to be a control in the signal path, my preference would be digital (not in the signal path and no loss of resolution all the way up), stepped attenuator and variable resistance potentiometer in that order.
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 11 Nov 2009, 01:16 am
Dunno 'bout using an encoder direct to the DAC. I think there are other registers to set too, and only one buss to access everything. Even without VC Buffalo has an external chip with custom software to control the DAC. Either way the parts are cheaper than a good analog pot, but implementation is the issue.

As a 32 bit DAC, the Sabre can attenuate 96dB (16 bits) before it tosses any significant bits from a wav file (CD). The buffalo's volume control is very sensitive at the top of the scale.  With a processor the control curve could be adjusted for usability.  To defeat a digital volume control, you simply turn it all the way up.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: hum4god on 12 Nov 2009, 06:10 pm
hi

i am also looking for a sabre 32 dac and this offering looks quiet tasty,love the switch between output tube and opamp....
but,

it would be nice to get some more information about the technical background of the unit. power supply , output stage etc.

why can't the volume ctrl be disconnected?

photos would be realllly nice .
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 Nov 2009, 03:50 am
Tried calling today to pre-order, Bill.  Guess you were out.  Will try again tomorrow.  Don't close it out till I get in!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 13 Nov 2009, 10:27 pm

why can't the volume ctrl be disconnected?

If it's just a pot, sure it can be manually disconnected/bypassed from inside the DAC with a few solder/desoldering.  It's just that if it was going to be bypassed, it would have been nice not to have it in the first place for a little less price.  And what about the warranty if you do mess with it..
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 13 Nov 2009, 10:49 pm
If it's just a pot, sure it can be manually disconnected/bypassed from inside the DAC with a few solder/desoldering.  It's just that if it was going to be bypassed, it would have been nice not to have it in the first place for a little less price.  And what about the warranty if you do mess with it..

I don't mind paying a few bucks more for the manufacturer to come up with a model that can please a wider audience, even if I won't use the feature.  But if we are to accept an analog volume pot, it would have been nice to have a small bypass toggle switch on the PC board.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 13 Nov 2009, 11:34 pm

I don't mind paying a few bucks more for the manufacturer to come up with a model that can please a wider audience, even if I won't use the feature.  But if we are to accept an analog volume pot, it would have been nice to have a small bypass toggle switch on the PC board.

actually you don't want the toggle switch, as it may degrade sound quality.  It is best to just desolder the pot and replace connections with  jumper wires.

I guess this brings up another question: how DIY friendly will this DAC be?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 14 Nov 2009, 12:16 am
actually you don't want the toggle switch, as it may degrade sound quality.  It is best to just desolder the pot and replace connections with  jumper wires.

I don't believe that.  In that case you wouldn't have a stepped attenuator in your preamp either.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 14 Nov 2009, 09:23 pm
I am of fan of the "less is more" school of design.  I don't care if the VC is digital, analog, or has a bypass switch, if it is not needed, you are better of without it.  All I want is a power switch and a source selector.  However, the tube circuit bypass option is intriguing. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 18 Nov 2009, 04:37 pm
Welp... I just pre-ordered mine...   Now I get to wait for it like an impatient child.

Alex, how will the inputs be selected on this DAC?

I plan to plug in a Squeezebox via coax, a playstation 3 via optical, a fios cable box via coax to BNC cable and possibly a computer via USB...

I'm hoping there is some sort of toggle switch rather than a mere detection of active devices as some devices will be on all the time.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 18 Nov 2009, 10:24 pm
Just wondering about the dimensions again.  Is the form factor like the BBA, deeper than it is wide....In other words, is the 280mm dimension the depth or width?  Also, is it powered by a wall-wart or does an IEC connector directly plug into the back?  Lastly, how  long is the pre-order price valid?

Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 18 Nov 2009, 10:55 pm
Just wondering about the dimensions again.  Is the form factor like the BBA, deeper than it is wide....In other words, is the 128mm dimension the depth or width?

Where did you get the dimension of 128mm?
 
2. the tube is neither inside the chassis nor on top of it, it makes use of the same idea of the EE CD player that is plugged at the back. The dimension is about 280 x 186 x 58mm

Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 18 Nov 2009, 11:09 pm
Oy vey!  I'm losing it....  I meant 280mm.  Corrected in my original post.

Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: hum4god on 20 Nov 2009, 07:30 pm
there are still a few questions in this thread that have not yet been answered .
i am really interested to preorder but do not feel comfortable to do so without knowing what i would  buy.

when will all the information about the dac be available?

as i understood it is not in development anymore , right ??

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 20 Nov 2009, 07:46 pm
there are still a few questions in this thread that have not yet been answered .
i am really interested to preorder but do not feel comfortable to do so without knowing what i would  buy.

Same here.
 
 
Bill & Alex,
 
We have not heard from either of you since November 10.  Could you please answer these remaining questions for us?
 
1.  What is the pre-order deadline date?
 
2.  How are the inputs selected and indicated?
 
3.  Is the power supply internal, external tabletop or external wall wart?
 
4.  Are the dimensions of '280mm X 186mm' Width X Depth or vice-versa?
 
5.  Are any photos available?
 
Re-reading through the posts, I think that covers the remaining unanswered questions.
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 21 Nov 2009, 05:35 pm
there are still a few questions in this thread that have not yet been answered .
i am really interested to preorder but do not feel comfortable to do so without knowing what i would  buy.

Same here.
 
 
Bill & Alex,
 
We have not heard from either of you since November 10.  Could you please answer these remaining questions for us?
 
1.  What is the pre-order deadline date?
 
2.  How are the inputs selected and indicated?
 
3.  Is the power supply internal, external tabletop or external wall wart?
 
4.  Are the dimensions of '280mm X 186mm' Width X Depth or vice-versa?
 
5.  Are any photos available?
 
Re-reading through the posts, I think that covers the remaining unanswered questions.
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23908)(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=23909)

Hi all, I am sorry that I have been running around and did not write sooner. Let me try...
1. The pre-order deadline is Dec 15th
2. The input is selected automatically as soon as one of the inputs senses a signal except the USB which you need to select by tapping a switch.
3. The PS is internal
4. The dimension is 280(W)mm x 180(D)mm x 28(H)mm
5. The hard chassis and accessories are not yet here. Here I attached the drawings for your interest, the finish DAC will look more or less the same.

Thanks for all your supports to me and Bill.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 21 Nov 2009, 05:51 pm
Thanks for the reply Alex!
 
However one of your drawings has spawned one further question.  Previously I asked if a BNC coaxial input would be provided, and the answer was no, only RCA coaxial.
 
But on the rear panel drawing I see what looks like a BNC jack in between the RCA and XLR jacks.
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 21 Nov 2009, 05:57 pm
Thanks for the reply Alex!
 
However one of your drawings has spawned one further question.  Previously I asked if a BNC coaxial input would be provided, and the answer was no, only RCA coaxial.
 
But on the rear panel drawing I see what looks like a BNC jack in between the RCA and XLR jacks.
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

I have finally decided to include the BNC input, sorry for the confusion before.


Cheers !


Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 21 Nov 2009, 10:20 pm
>>>2. The input is selected automatically as soon as one of the inputs senses a signal except the USB which you need to select by tapping a switch.

What is the priority list?  And if I have a computer connected via RCA and a PS3 connected via optical and if both devices are powered on, I have to power down one device in order to switch decoding?

Would "tapping a switch" allow me to switch between RCA and optical input without powering down devices?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 23 Nov 2009, 03:52 pm
>>>2. The input is selected automatically as soon as one of the inputs senses a signal except the USB which you need to select by tapping a switch.

What is the priority list?  And if I have a computer connected via RCA and a PS3 connected via optical and if both devices are powered on, I have to power down one device in order to switch decoding?

Would "tapping a switch" allow me to switch between RCA and optical input without powering down devices?


Hello there, my original design is that there is only one input connected at a time and the DAC detects automatically. However, it seems that some of you would like to connect two or more inputs the same time. I am now checking out the selector. I will post as soon as I confirm how I would do it. Thanks for your great inputs which always make our products not only sounding great but user friendly.

Cheer !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 23 Nov 2009, 05:20 pm
Would that be a selector in addition to the automatic selection of inputs? For me the automatic selection of an input is a big selling point, as I can't imagine an instance in which two active signals are entering my DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 23 Nov 2009, 05:22 pm
Would that be a selector in addition to the automatic selection of inputs? For me the automatic selection of an input is a big selling point, as I can't imagine an instance in which two active signals are entering my DAC.

Actually, digital sounds much better if kept turned-on 24/7 IME.  That means all my digital sources will be powered on 24/7, including CD transport, DVD transport, PC Audio transport, etc.  Ability to switch to one of my choice with a switch would be almost a necessity...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 23 Nov 2009, 05:49 pm
Equipment kept on I can see, but my understanding is that there is only a signal when play is pressed. Am I incorrect in that assumption?

The automatic signal selection feature had me convinced to put down my down payment. Please keep us informed on when it is confirmed whether or not this will be a feature.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 23 Nov 2009, 06:13 pm
Actually, digital sounds much better if kept turned-on 24/7 IME.  That means all my digital sources will be powered on 24/7, including CD transport, DVD transport, PC Audio transport, etc.  Ability to switch to one of my choice with a switch would be almost a necessity...

Whether I leave my digital sources powered on 24/7 or not, at least during the system session on-time several sources will be active.  Of the three DACs I have previously owned, all have had manual input selection which is fairly common.
 
Equipment kept on I can see, but my understanding is that there is only a signal when play is pressed. Am I incorrect in that assumption?

It depends on the component and how it's being used.  One scenario would be my computer/music server.  Even if I have stopped iTunes playback and had switched to a different input, if a system event on the PC triggers a system sound, it would output a signal.
 
 
 
I can see where it could be possible to come up with a circuit design change where the present USB selector button could cycle through the inputs, but without an indicator LED for each input to show which is selected, it would be extremely user unfriendly.
 
If either the circuit board or the enclosure have been submitted for production, it seems unlikely that this change could be implemented in a satisfactory way.
 
I am one of the fence sitters who would like to acquire a new DAC with the ESS Sabre32 9018 chip, but if the usability for me is compromised, I may wait to see how some of the other soon-to-be-released ESS Sabre32 DACs have implemented their feature set.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 23 Nov 2009, 08:49 pm
>>>2. The input is selected automatically as soon as one of the inputs senses a signal except the USB which you need to select by tapping a switch.

What is the priority list?  And if I have a computer connected via RCA and a PS3 connected via optical and if both devices are powered on, I have to power down one device in order to switch decoding?

Would "tapping a switch" allow me to switch between RCA and optical input without powering down devices?


Hello there, my original design is that there is only one input connected at a time and the DAC detects automatically. However, it seems that some of you would like to connect two or more inputs the same time. I am now checking out the selector. I will post as soon as I confirm how I would do it. Thanks for your great inputs which always make our products not only sounding great but user friendly.

Cheer !

Alex

Glad to hear you are investigating this.  Many seem to like the auto detection option but I would MUCH rather have some sort of toggle switch.  My FIOS box will be a source (probably via toslink) in order that some of the great music available might actually be listenable, and that thing is on 24/7 so it would be very annoying to me if two devices fought for position.



I'm toying with selling off my CD player and using a playstation 3 as a CD transport...  Does anyone who has experience with the Sabre32s think this would be a poor decision?  Perhaps I'm expecting too much out of its jitter reducing abilities.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Carlman on 23 Nov 2009, 11:25 pm
If you only have 1 source, auto-detection isn't a consideration for purchase.
If you have 2+ sources, auto-detection is nice if you always play one or the other and ensure the digital signal is not active.
If you have 2+ sources, manual selection allows you to choose which source to play.  If the source indicator aligned with the input type, it would be very easy to use.  Pushing a button that lights up 'USB, Coax, BNC, TOSlink' would be easy enough for everyone I've ever known, including children.

-C
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 1 Dec 2009, 09:26 am
Hello there, I have spent some time on studying the selection of the input digital sources. I will add an input selector. You can connect more than one active digital devices and they can be turned on 24/7  aa

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 1 Dec 2009, 02:09 pm
Terrific news, Alex.  I'm very excited about this project.  Will the completion date be pushed back by this change?

It is December 1 and January can't get here soon enough! 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 1 Dec 2009, 02:27 pm
Terrific news, Alex.  I'm very excited about this project.  Will the completion date be pushed back by this change?

It is December 1 and January can't get here soon enough!
I used a bit more than a week to fix that. I am pushing the production and hope to get it ready sometime in January.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tvyankee on 1 Dec 2009, 04:08 pm
if that xlr on the back is a aes input make sure you change it to a female.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 1 Dec 2009, 11:42 pm
if that xlr on the back is a aes input make sure you change it to a female.

While at it, make sure to use a 75-Ohm BNC jack instead of the 50-Ohm BNC jack seen in the rendering..
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 2 Dec 2009, 01:37 am
if that xlr on the back is a aes input make sure you change it to a female.
The AES/EBU input jack will be a female one.

Thanks.

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 2 Dec 2009, 01:38 am
if that xlr on the back is a aes input make sure you change it to a female.

While at it, make sure to use a 75-Ohm BNC jack instead of the 50-Ohm BNC jack seen in the rendering..
The BNC input jack is a 75 ohm one.

Cheers !

Alex



Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 2 Dec 2009, 04:14 pm
Forgive a dumb question, but will there be a "best" way to connect this to a transport source?

I've been tormenting over how to attach my devices and while I was originally determined to ditch my Squeezebox and go coaxial out of my computer to use itunes (genius), I'm now thinking of keeping my SB and linking that by coax, my ps3 (cd transport) by toslink and using USB to my computer...

Is there a downside to linking components in this manner?  or even a preferable way of doing things?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 2 Dec 2009, 05:12 pm
With a DAC that does not attenutate jitter as well as Sabre32 the connection method can have an effect, sometimes a big one. Sabre32 DAC pretty much eliminates that issue by eliminating jitter inside the chip. All transports on any input will sound the same if the data integrity is good.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 2 Dec 2009, 05:41 pm
Quote
I've been tormenting over how to attach my devices and while I was originally determined to ditch my Squeezebox and go coaxial out of my computer to use itunes (genius), I'm now thinking of keeping my SB and linking that by coax, my ps3 (cd transport) by toslink and using USB to my computer...

I have the same setup really.  Here is my thinking, and I don't claim that it is the best.

PC via coaxial
PS3 via optical
squeezebox via coaxial and BNC/RCA adapter

I think if you have s/pdif coaxial out from the PC, you may consider using that instead of USB.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 4 Dec 2009, 01:14 am

I have the same setup really.  Here is my thinking, and I don't claim that it is the best.

PC via coaxial
PS3 via optical
squeezebox via coaxial and BNC/RCA adapter


Can someone please explain the "coaxial and BNC/RCA adapter" connection to me? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 4 Dec 2009, 06:47 pm
"Coaxial" in this case means SPDIF over electrical cable, as opposed to SPDIF over optical TOSLINK cable.

RCA connectors are not the ideal 75 ohms that digital transmission prefers. BNC connectors are 75 ohm, designed to work with coaxial 75 ohm cable. BNC connectors can be used as a digital audio input on a DAC, but in order to connect the DAC to a transport with RCA digital output, an adapter is needed. Impedance variation from 75 ohms can result in reflections and smearing of the digital signal which affects the sound of some DACs. The Sabre32 DAC doesn't care.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 4 Dec 2009, 07:06 pm
Alex,
 
What will be the indicator for the input selection?
 
Some DACs that do have both an RCA and a BNC S/PDIF input are implemented as a single input, not selectable between them and not intended for use simultaneously.  Is that the same approach here?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 6 Dec 2009, 02:41 pm
Alex,
 
What will be the indicator for the input selection?
 
Some DACs that do have both an RCA and a BNC S/PDIF input are implemented as a single input, not selectable between them and not intended for use simultaneously.  Is that the same approach here?
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

The BNC and RCA and is selectable between them, in this case you select only one of them to use at any time.

Cheers!

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 6 Dec 2009, 03:13 pm
Alex,
What will be the indicator for the input selection?

Alex,
 
I wanted to clarify my last question.  Originally when you were going to use automatic input selection, per your drawing you had a push selector button and a single USB LED above it.  Now that you are implementing manual selection, did you incorporate a row of LEDs to indicate which of the inputs (USB, coaxial, BNC, optical, AES/EBU) is selected?
 
Sorry for so many questions (at least we've kept bumping this topic to the top of the list!), but since it is not something we can see (at least for the pre-order round) this is the last piece of the puzzle to understand the operation.
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 6 Dec 2009, 03:17 pm
Alex,
What will be the indicator for the input selection?

Alex,
 
I wanted to clarify my last question.  Originally when you were going to use automatic input selection, per your drawing you had a push selector button and a single USB LED above it.  Now that you are implementing manual selection, did you incorporate a row of LEDs to indicate which of the inputs (USB, coaxial, BNC, optical, AES/EBU) is selected?
 
Sorry for so many questions (at least we've kept bumping this topic to the top of the list!), but since it is not something we can see (at least for the pre-order round) this is the last piece of the puzzle to understand the operation.
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Hi Steve,

There will be a rotary switch to select the input.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 6 Dec 2009, 10:37 pm
So how many inputs really are there, as it is disclosed that BNC and RCA is really only one input?

I actually took Alex's reply to mean they were separate inputs, individually selectable like all the others.
 
The BNC and RCA and is selectable between them, in this case you select only one of them to use at any time.

If that is the case there would be 5: RCA, BNC, Toslink optical, XLR (AES/EBU) and USB.
 
But I may be wrong, the wording was slightly confusing.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 6 Dec 2009, 10:41 pm
Thanks srb for your help.  After rereading Alex's reply a couple times, I arrived at the same conclusion and deleted my question.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 7 Dec 2009, 04:37 am
Can we get a final run down of features, maybe a pic (or updated drawing) and a final date for pre-order/shipping?

thanks,
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 7 Dec 2009, 04:11 pm
Hi there, I guess the drawing should answer your questions aa(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=24337)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 7 Dec 2009, 05:52 pm
Very nice!  Black faceplate for sure or is silver an option? 

I want in on the first batch either way, just curious if it'll match my other EE gear.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 7 Dec 2009, 06:03 pm
Very pretty Alex!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 9 Dec 2009, 03:23 am
Alex,

Are you using a 80mHz clock?  If not, would the PCB allow us to experiment by adding one?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 10 Dec 2009, 08:11 am
Alex,

Are you using a 80mHz clock?  If not, would the PCB allow us to experiment by adding one?
It is a 80MHz clock :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 10 Dec 2009, 08:39 am
Was there ever a final statement about the volume control being analog or digital?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 10 Dec 2009, 08:51 am
Was there ever a final statement about the volume control being analog or digital?
The volume control is an analog one :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tamahome77 on 10 Dec 2009, 10:04 am
Any comments on the sound of this DAC?  aa  I hope it won't have any emphasis on the upper treble/peakiness.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 10 Dec 2009, 01:36 pm
Was there ever a final statement about the volume control being analog or digital?
The volume control is an analog one :wink:

Thanks. If one is using an integrated amp, and will not be using the volume control on the DAC, is the volume control of the DAC out of the way in a particular position? Smooth turning or steps?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 10 Dec 2009, 02:50 pm
One wil still be "using" the volume control of the DAC. It will be a smooth turning one. You will find the best sounding position of the VC for your integrated amp.

Cheers !


Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: HT cOz on 11 Dec 2009, 03:00 pm
Very nice looking DAC at a great price.  The Sabre 32 is the solution I would go with.  I think this will be a great seller.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 11 Dec 2009, 04:16 pm
Alex, when you say analog volume control I think of an Alps potentiometer attenuating the full scale signal coming out of DAC chip. But then you say it will "still be using the volume control of the DAC" which is 256 step digital volume control which is adjusted by external microcontroller.  Which is it?

Maybe you mean the volume control of the whole DAC as a source component, and not the DAC chip. I think I misunderstood. Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 12 Dec 2009, 02:40 pm
Sorry for the confusion. I really mean the volume control for the analog signal after the DAC chip.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 12 Dec 2009, 02:46 pm
OK, thanks!!!!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 12 Dec 2009, 08:09 pm
Hello all!

I know this is going to be very speculative at this point, but just by looking at the chip and technical specs of the forthcoming DAC, do you think it will hold its own against the stiff competition in the $1k range (Lavry, PS Audio, Benchmark, Apogee, Grace, Aqvox, Cambridge, Havana, ....). In other words - could the high quality Sabre chip be hampered by the unit's very competitive price point?

Different question: What would be the "best" method of feeding a signal - USB, Toslink? I am currently planning a modest music server / HT setup (feeding a Rowland amp) and might start out with an Airport Express with Toslink Out into DAC, hence the question.

Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 12 Dec 2009, 08:32 pm
I know this is going to be very speculative at this point, but just by looking at the chip and technical specs of the forthcoming DAC, do you think it will hold its own against the stiff competition in the $1k range (Lavry, PS Audio, Benchmark, Apogee, Grace, Aqvox, Cambridge, Havana, ....).
Yes.
 
In other words - could the high quality chip we hampered by the fact that the rest of the unit is built to a very competitive price point?
I think it could be hampered by a poor design or implementation around the chip, but not necessarily hampered because of it's lower price point.  Eastern Electric has delivered good designs on their previous analog products, hopefully this first attempt at a standalone digital DAC design will be good as well.  Most of the brands you mentioned, except for the Lavry and MHDT, are sold through retailers rather than direct, so there is added markup for those.

Different question: What would be the "best" method of feeding a signal - USB, Toslink? I am currently planning a modest music server / HT setup (feeding a Rowland amp) and might start out with an Airport Express with Toslink Out into DAC, hence the question.

If I get one, I will most likely use the BNC/RCA coaxial, as I don't want to be limited to 16bit/44.1KHz/48KHz through the USB input.  Normally, Toslink is not the most preferred input to a DAC, but there are a couple of thoughts on this.
 
First is the thought that transmission through wireless network packets of the Airport Express has reduced jitter, and second, if the "Patented Time Domain Jitter Eliminator" feature of the chip works as well as promised by ESS Tech, and perceived to work by adopters of the DIY Twisted Pear Buffalo DAC, the choice of input (except for the high resolution file limitation of the USB input as previously mentioned) may not matter much.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 13 Dec 2009, 01:12 pm
Thanks for answering my questions. I just started looking into DACs again, although I researched the topic back some 4 years ago, when the Benchmark had just come out. I tried out the Aqvox USB2 DA Mk1 back then, but in the end liked the sound of a stand-alone CDP (Berendsen CD1) better and dropped the whole idea of buildung a serious music server / streaming solution at the time.

Now I have an old Macbook G4 I'd like to retire to music/file/print server duties, transmit wirelessly to my stereo via Airport Express, control everything with my iPhone and use the Toslink out of the AE to feed a DAC in the sub 1k price range. Right now, from reading reviews of other contenders, and seeing how easily you can go up the ladder to 2k, 3k and beyond, I find the Eastern Electric an exciting prospect as it could bring price/performance to another level in its price range. I hope someone with experience with the Havana will review the Eastern Electric shortly after it's come out. The forthcoming Wadia 121 will be on my shortlist as well.

BTW: Do you guys know of any universal players (such as the Oppo BDP-83SE) that will offer great D/A-conversion if fed through their digital inputs?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 Dec 2009, 02:32 pm
We're on the same page, aloft!

I don't see that name come up often enough!  I'm rocking a Berendsen CDP-1 myself as well which has staved off the desire to upgrade my digital for a very long time.  I'm not even hoping for an upgrade here, but more 'something that can hang' as I'm finding the music server approach to digital INFINITELY more convenient.  As good as the Berendsen sounds I just kinda found myself not using it over the year...

Ideally I'd like to trade in my Berendsen for something that would see usage in my system.  A matching Cain & Cain subwoofer, another analog upgrade, even just money in my pocket...

Its unfortunate popularity never took off more than it did.  The player was a giant in my opinion (murdered my G08, A308cr and heavily modified JD100A) but somehow flew under the radar which will undoubtedly hurt resale.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 13 Dec 2009, 06:17 pm
One heck of a CDP indeed. I never understood its lack of success both in Germany and beyond. I particularly enjoyed playing with different DAC chips, as recommended by Mr. Sven Berendsen himself. Maybe you should give that a try as well. I don't see why you should sell yours even if you're moving towards a music server. It's a good point of reference for any other source you might audition in the future (esp. DACs).

You're right about its depreciating value - it's unfortunate that some companies simply aren't able to find enough media exposure or aren't clever enough to use viral marketing strategies through news forums like AC.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 Dec 2009, 07:51 pm
Well--I already ripped my entire cd collection (as well as quite a few loaners) to lossless and am planning to clear my mess of CDs out of the listening room permanently and into storage so I really can't think of a legitimate reason to need the CDP around.

Are you saying you rolled the chips in the CD player?  How easy to do was this?  Any soldering required?  Can you shoot me more information on this as I am intrigued.

I've got limited money for the audio hobby so rather I don't really like to see equipment sitting idle in my system, but I am pretty torn on what to do with this CD player...  If I could recoupe even $1200 of it, I'd probably upgrade from my Well Tempered Classic to a Well Tempered Reference immediately and put my full faith in Eastern Electric to have me covered digitial wise (as they do preamp/phonostage wise).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 13 Dec 2009, 08:42 pm
Gopher you got a PM.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 13 Dec 2009, 09:27 pm
Sorry, irrelevant comment.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 14 Dec 2009, 05:40 pm
Back to the original topic....could Alex or anyone in the know explain to me the benefit of using an non-defeatable, analogue potentiometer for volume control instead of the DAC's internal volume control? Doesn't the former typically degrade sound quality if not extremely well executed?

Just curious about the reasoning... Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: koiman on 14 Dec 2009, 10:32 pm
I pulled the trigger today on the new Dac. I sure hope it is as good as many think it will be..
 :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Firefly on 14 Dec 2009, 11:22 pm
Hi Jon,

After the low pass filter, the analog signal will be fed to the tube or ss amp stage by a selector switch.
Alex

What is cut frequency (-3dB)? Can LPF be user programed?
Tell more power supply to the chip. I hope it is discrete supply, not 7805 or 1117-3.3 crap for everything.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 15 Dec 2009, 04:08 am
I'd love to see 24/96 USB option, but I'm still interested. Currently using the NOVA with BNC mode (fed by EMU1616M).

Glad I stumbled across this thread!

And as much asI want to stick this at home on the hifi (where my Nova is), this will be part of my office headamp rig. Great work. Off to find those French RTC 12AU7s I buried somewhere!

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 16 Dec 2009, 12:42 am
Hi DC,

 I met a lovely gentleman by the name of Harley when I visited your area some 8 years ago when I first traveled the country trying to get the Eastern Electric MiniMax preamplifier off the ground. He also I believe was the upstanding member or he might have been president of the Tampa Bay Audio Society. Any chance you know him?
  Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 16 Dec 2009, 01:45 am
Hi Jon,

After the low pass filter, the analog signal will be fed to the tube or ss amp stage by a selector switch.
Alex

What is cut frequency (-3dB)? Can LPF be user programed?
Tell more power supply to the chip. I hope it is discrete supply, not 7805 or 1117-3.3 crap for everything.


Cut frequency, do you mean the frequency response ? It is planned based on at least 20HZ-20KHZ(?3DB), but it is still at the tuning stage and the final figures will be confirmed soon. LPF cannot be user programed.
PS for the chips is 317/337. Just FYI, the PS for the output tube is discrete aa

Cheers !

Alex







Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 16 Dec 2009, 01:51 am
Back to the original topic....could Alex or anyone in the know explain to me the benefit of using an non-defeatable, analogue potentiometer for volume control instead of the DAC's internal volume control? Doesn't the former typically degrade sound quality if not extremely well executed?

Just curious about the reasoning... Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 16 Dec 2009, 02:13 am
Back to the original topic....could Alex or anyone in the know explain to me the benefit of using an non-defeatable, analogue potentiometer for volume control instead of the DAC's internal volume control? Doesn't the former typically degrade sound quality if not extremely well executed?

Just curious about the reasoning... Thanks!
Both types of VC can be made good sound if things are done right, I simply would like to go for analog VC this time. I trust my ears to tune for the best sound aa

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 16 Dec 2009, 02:46 am
I'm in. Picking up a HiFace or Musiland as a transport so I can use BNC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 16 Dec 2009, 03:56 am
I'm in too....Will probably replace my Musical Fidelity quad stack in my main rig.  The MF set-up will then be used in a headphone only rig.   aa aa aa
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Firefly on 16 Dec 2009, 10:00 am
Quote from: bravophase

Cut frequency, do you mean the frequency response ? It is planned based on at least 20HZ-20KHZ(?3DB), but it is still at the tuning stage and the final figures will be confirmed soon. LPF cannot be user programed.
PS for the chips is 317/337. Just FYI, the PS for the output tube is discrete aa

Cheers !

Alex

Yes, frequency response. Only 20Hz-20kHz? Extend that range, ad least double it. Reason for that is associated with phase and human ear, search Google  :icon_lol:

317/337 regulators?  :duh: Go discrete, each supply pin should have its own low noise regulator. No offence, but with monolithic regulators this DAC is same category as any other 100$USD chinese DAC on Ebay

Into this price range, anything less less than proper shunt regulator for tube output is no no. Shunt reg for heater supply too.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 16 Dec 2009, 03:36 pm
Now I understand why dB Audio Labs and NuForce don't like to release details of their circuitry.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mcullinan on 16 Dec 2009, 04:04 pm
Pink knobs, it MUST have pink knobs!
M
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 16 Dec 2009, 04:10 pm
Quote from: bravophase

Cut frequency, do you mean the frequency response ? It is planned based on at least 20HZ-20KHZ(?3DB), but it is still at the tuning stage and the final figures will be confirmed soon. LPF cannot be user programed.
PS for the chips is 317/337. Just FYI, the PS for the output tube is discrete aa

Cheers !

Alex

Yes, frequency response. Only 20Hz-20kHz? Extend that range, ad least double it. Reason for that is associated with phase and human ear, search Google  :icon_lol:

317/337 regulators?  :duh: Go discrete, each supply pin should have its own low noise regulator. No offence, but with monolithic regulators this DAC is same category as any other 100$USD chinese DAC on Ebay

Into this price range, anything less less than proper shunt regulator for tube output is no no. Shunt reg for heater supply too.


I understand and thanks for your kind advices and comments. My work is based on real work and not paper and or rumor. My goal is always to make the best sounding gears. The final FR will go beyond this 20Hz - 20KHz.
Don't worry, I know exactly what I am doing and EE is not just another Chinese made DAC on ebay or anywhere else. Lets judge the sound by the real machine.

Cheers !

Alex

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 16 Dec 2009, 07:45 pm
Now I understand why dB Audio Labs and NuForce don't like to release details of their circuitry.
 
Steve

 :rotflmao:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 16 Dec 2009, 08:42 pm
Pink knobs, it MUST have pink knobs!
M

 :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 17 Dec 2009, 04:29 am
Thank you Alex, for bringing a touch of the Light into the mix.

 Thanks to all who have helped from concept to market.We  thought we would try to bring what we could under a certain price point. I believe we have. For those who wanted more, we'll keep trying in future products.

Blessings,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 17 Dec 2009, 06:11 am
Dear All,

The other engineers and I have consulted and we are still doing some
fine adjustments to meet what we call musicality,when we have finalized
all the variables that we consider to be relevant and have listened to
adjust to the best possible sound possible, we will duplicate our
findings to bring to those who love music.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 21 Dec 2009, 08:59 pm
Sounds good, Alex.  Are you still anticipating the first batch making it to the states by late January?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tamahome77 on 21 Dec 2009, 11:25 pm
Can I still place an order or is it too late already?  I called in today but no one picked up the phone.  :cry:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Dec 2009, 01:22 am
 Tama,
sorry I missed your call.It probaly is better to call after the dinner hour central time.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 29 Dec 2009, 05:54 pm
How is this project coming along, Alex?

Any new updates?  I'm getting excited.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 29 Dec 2009, 06:09 pm
From what I heard things were pushed down the road a few weeks.

BTW - is this an NOS DAC? I know the Nova uses 24/96 direct into the Sabre chip rather than another chip which is needed to do 24/192 with the 9008 (although this will have the 9018).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 29 Dec 2009, 09:53 pm
Hmm, what did you hear pushed it back?  More design changes or just the holidays and such?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 30 Dec 2009, 01:32 am
Hi there, there is no more design changes. We are doing the very final fine tuning the DAC. It does get some delays due to quite some changes before as you have been reading the posts. However everything is going on very fine.

By the way, I am not sure what "NOS DAC" means.

Thanks.

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 30 Dec 2009, 02:36 am
Hi All,

 When we first started on the DAC the tentative shipping date from Hong Kong was Jan 15th, with the changes implemented the date was pushed back probably 10-14 days as Alex had to make the extra changes. With that in mind it does take 18-21 days to arrive to the US by boat and another 5-7 days to clear customs and have them delivered to my office/warehouse.
 I know Alex has pushed the factory engineers to complete this project ASAP.So hopefully( I have my fingers crossed ) that the extra push might have the Jan 15th day in their site still.
 Hope that clarifies it all up a bit.
If you really need it sooner we might be able to provide Air shipment direct to your door but that is fairly expensive to ship that way and you would have to flip that bill. :cry:

Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC - Early Adopters
Post by: Meicheng on 30 Dec 2009, 03:43 am
I must admit I've read the entire thread and am pretty impressed by the patience and work put in by Bill and Alex to satisfy everyone.  My impression is they are pushing as much as humanly possible.  I have been contemplating this product along with the new Virtue Amps, and just have to wonder about the trade-offs of being an early adopter on any new audio product.  Everyone knows of a product that wasn't quite right when introduced and had to go thru a couple of iterations before getting it right.  Both this DAC with the SABRE chip/tube output and the Virtue Sensation tripath integrated have generated tons of buzz.  I know these guys have worked really hard, and I hope the products live up to everyones expectations.  While I'm watching these threads carefully, I am also a bit unsure about placing an order before I read/hear some real world feedback.  Would be interested to hear others take on this issue.   
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 30 Dec 2009, 04:20 am
Bill & Alex - Thanks for the update. 

Regarding the schedule, my preference is for you guys to take your time and perfect the design! 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 30 Dec 2009, 02:59 pm
Bill & Alex - Thanks for the update. 

Regarding the schedule, my preference is for you guys to take your time and perfect the design!

+1  please don't mistake my curiosity for impatience.  I was just wondering where things were standing. 

Very excited, Alex & Bill!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 4 Jan 2010, 01:45 am
I'm in too and please take your time. I’ve never heard a Dac or player using the Sabre 32bit ES9018 chip, but was thinking of getting an Oppo BDP-83SE player but thought this Dac would work out better for me.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 4 Jan 2010, 02:28 am
I've been lurking and following this thread with great interest; did I miss it or was the question of whether the USB would be asynch or synch answered?

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 4 Jan 2010, 03:27 am
I'm pretty sure it was answered that USB input would be synchronous (adaptive) and accept 16bit/48KHz.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 9 Jan 2010, 11:23 pm
Now that I'm close to being able to afford it, I wondered if the original pre-order price deadline still applied or if it is still possible to get the DAC at the introductory price.

Looking forward to the units shipping and hearing it and/or others' impressions of it.

 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 11 Jan 2010, 02:23 am
I will extend the preorder price until the end of the month of January.

 Hope that helps,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 11 Jan 2010, 02:53 pm
I'm in too and please take your time. I’ve never heard a Dac or player using the Sabre 32bit ES9018 chip, but was thinking of getting an Oppo BDP-83SE player but thought this Dac would work out better for me.

I read about the Buffalo DAC using the same DAC chip, and has received raves.  I hope this EE DAC is even better.  The price is certainly attractive enough vs. just the kit(s) for the Buffalo.  Regardless, performance is what we go after, regardless of price (within limits$).  Seems that Morningstar (Alex) is serious about putting out a lot of bang for the buck.  May be many audio fanatics (this word is used in a positive manner, not meaning to be derogatory) WILL have a very happy new year because of this.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 12 Jan 2010, 02:30 am
I couldn’t help myself and have an Oppo BDP-83SE coming at the end of the week. I too hope the EE DAC is special, can’t wait. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 12 Jan 2010, 02:47 am
Well PeteG,

I hope we can look forward to your comparison of the Eastern Electric DAC and the BDP-83 DAC someday.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 13 Jan 2010, 05:32 pm
Bill & Alex:

Any update on estimated delivery date of the first batch of DACs? Any finalized specs? Some pictures would be nice.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 13 Jan 2010, 08:08 pm
Bill & Alex:

Any update on estimated delivery date of the first batch of DACs? Any finalized specs? Some pictures would be nice.

Thanks.

I thought somewhere in this thread Alex had mentioned that they've finished the design/finetuning phase.  Soooo, it should be in production right now (Bill had also indicated that they're giving a push also to keep up with the original target dates).  Let's hope distributiion here in the States will be around th eend of February?  :duh:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 13 Jan 2010, 10:03 pm
Bill &/or Alex:

First, let me add my thanks for your remarkable patience and receptiveness throughout the design process and all the 'suggestions' in this thread  :icon_lol:!!  Now, would it be possible to basically have a response here that sets forth the features, etc. of the DAC as has been finally (hopefully for your sake  :D) determined, such as inputs, input switching, volume control, tube/tube types, etc.?

I've perused all the pages of this thread more than once, and honestly I'm not exactly sure where these things ended up, and I'm thinking it might be helpful for potential buyers (i.e. me) to have it all consolidated in one place.

If this info already exists somewhere and I've missed it, please feel free to just point me at it!

Thanks!

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 14 Jan 2010, 07:42 pm
An interesting note on inputs to the ESS Sabre Chip from the DAC comparison being reported on in the GR Circle:



The 32 bit buffalo DAC kit was also very good. It was running on batteries. The fiber optic from the Mac Mini sounded okay but when we plugged it in using the Ridge Street Audio Alethias USB cable, the performance across the board went up a significant amount. I have no problem recommending it as well.


And in a later post (again by Danny, the moderator):

Yeah, it uses the same chip set. Everything else could be different. If we had just stuck with the fiber optic input then it wouldn't have fair well against the others. Using the USB (I think I2S input) was a completely different story.

I was surprised to hear this, with all the talk about the much-lauded jitter reducing properties of the ESS Sabre chip.

Alex, what is your experience with the effects of different inputs on the Eastern Electric DAC?

Anyone else come across similar comments about DACs with the ESS Sabre chip? Or any impressions from others who have heard the chip implemented?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 15 Jan 2010, 12:16 am
Hi Guys,

 I just heard from Alex so he will be posting probably later today when he wakes up but the prototype DAC is sounding very good right now and he is happy with all the work that has gone into it.He asked that we give him a few more days to tweek it all out ,swapping some different caps he wants to try before final assembly begins with the order.Needless to say I'm excited :thumb: :D
 The engineers had a few problems along the way as the chip is so new but all has been worked out. Thank the Good Lord above! :thumb:
 Alex will tell you all about the DAC and its features.
 Thank you all for your patience and your orders.
Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 16 Jan 2010, 06:14 am
I am getting excited, only a few more weeks!! I had a look at computeraudiophile.com. Most noteworthy DACs of late are being built to a higher price point. There's not that much around in the 500-750 US$ price range, where I draw the line, personally. I sure hope the EE will deliver the goods.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 21 Jan 2010, 07:40 pm
Any word on that final tweaking Alex? 

Its very exciting that its coming along smoothly.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 21 Jan 2010, 07:44 pm
Anyone know of a passive remote controlled attenuator that doesn't cost 4K (cough * Weiss).

Can't wait to check this DAC out.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Jan 2010, 07:48 pm
Anyone know of a passive remote controlled attenuator that doesn't cost 4K (cough * Weiss).

Can't wait to check this DAC out.

http://doddaudio.com/BatteryPoweredTubeBufferPreamp.aspx
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 21 Jan 2010, 07:52 pm
thanks Jason.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jtwrace on 21 Jan 2010, 07:55 pm
thanks Jason.

 :thumb:  I own one and it's awesome

see this thread: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75028.0
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Jan 2010, 12:00 am
Gopher,

  I talked with Alex last night as he was on the ferry going to the factory to meet with the other engineers, I'm waiting to hear from him the results. He said he would post shortly.
 Thanks again for your patience guys,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 27 Jan 2010, 07:36 pm
Any updates, Bill or Alex?  It would sure be nice to get pics and details of the final product....Going by EE's track record, it is bound to be good! Has production started, or will it be after the Chinese New Year holidays?

Thanks, and sorry for being impatient....

Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 27 Jan 2010, 08:37 pm
Any updates, Bill or Alex?  It would sure be nice to get pics and details of the final product....Going by EE's track record, it is bound to be good! Has production started, or will it be after the Chinese New Year holidays?

Thanks, and sorry for being impatient....

Ajay

It is now another "several" days after last post by Bill, saying that Alex will post soon.........  So, everybody's getting a little edgy :lol:?  Last I heard, Alex was to leave China before Chinese New Year regardless, which is about 2 weeks away (Feb. 14, Year of the Tiger; so shall the EE DAC be roaring out like one?).  Does that mean production WILL not happen until after New Year (very likely under such circumstances)?  We may not see delivery until March sometime?

That's what everybody's guessing, and pacing I'm sure.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 28 Jan 2010, 02:17 am
They will be completed before the Chinese New Year and be on their way to us.
 I know Alex was waiting for the factory's top engineer to give him all the correct spec's on the unit as I know that is what your waiting to see.
 He told me in last nights email and this morning I wrote him telling him to please post.
 He did say the engineers and him sat down along with some audio friends who own a few shops in HK and they really liked the sound. Alex preferred the tube output presentation which I would have guessed as he truly knows how to make a circuit sing employing tubes.Very musical was the thoughts of all.
 I was hoping Alex would have posted by now so I hope by this evening or tomorrow he will chime in.
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 28 Jan 2010, 01:25 pm
They will be completed before the Chinese New Year and be on their way to us.
 I know Alex was waiting for the factory's top engineer to give him all the correct spec's on the unit as I know that is what your waiting to see.
 He told me in last nights email and this morning I wrote him telling him to please post.
 He did say the engineers and him sat down along with some audio friends who own a few shops in HK and they really liked the sound. Alex preferred the tube output presentation which I would have guessed as he truly knows how to make a circuit sing employing tubes.Very musical was the thoughts of all.
 I was hoping Alex would have posted by now so I hope by this evening or tomorrow he will chime in.
 Bill

That's great news, Bill.  Thanks.  Now, all those who had ordered can rest assured; Alex didn't run away with the down payment$$$  :drool:.  He's just too busy fine-tuning the sound.  Now that they also had some users chiming in on the sound, that's more good news.  I don't doubt that the tube output route would be the ultimate in sound quality, as compared to opamps.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 28 Jan 2010, 02:29 pm
Hi All, I am sorry for not writing sooner as I have been getting very busy of tuning the sound and arranging the production. The delivery from here will be before the Chinese New Year that is middle of Feb. The DAC is singing great in our audition room....very musical  :eyebrows: Here are some highlights for your interest.

   ESS DAC chips
   inputs : AES/EBU, BNC, RCA, OPTICAL and USB
   Tube and solid state output selectable
   Phase In/Out selectable
   Output volume control
   Frequency Response : 15Hz – 32KHz
   Sampling rates : 32bit  32kHz、44.1kHz、48kHz
   Dynamic Range : 129dB
I will have the photo shooting done sometime next week and I will post here.

Cheers !

Alex









Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 28 Jan 2010, 02:46 pm
Alex, could you please clarify two points?
 
   ESS DAC chips
The chip being used is still the 9018?

 
   Sampling rates : 32bit  32kHz、44.1kHz、48kHz
I thought originally that sampling rates up to 192KHz were supported by S/PDIF inputs, and that only the USB input was limited to 48KHz.
 
Thanks for the clarification.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 28 Jan 2010, 03:30 pm
The Nova utilizes 96kHz even though the Sabre chip they used can do 192.

I'm curious to hear what the EE implementation uses. Guessing your right SRB, that is probably USB.

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oxric on 29 Jan 2010, 12:11 am
Hello  everyone here. This is my first post so I hope you guys will be nice if I inadvertently disregard or flout any of the usual protocols and conventions.
I have been reading this informative thread for a while and I believe its only raison d'etre is a good marketing strategy to fill in the order book as well as try to satisfy the requests of people willing to order a product that no one has heard as an act of blind faith in the exellence of the designer.
Well, I would be very upset if this dac build around the ESS dac was not capable of sampling rates over 48KHz. I would hope anything based around the ESS dac would offer 176.4kHz so it can be used with the latest high resolution material being offered by the likes of Naim, Linn and HRx Reference recordings. See for instance,
http://www.referencerecordings.com/HRx2.asp
I am sure that the dac used must be the ESS 9018 as this has been the whole point of this thread, not some other chip from ESS Technology. But it might be an idea for those involved to chime in and clarify.


Cheers
R
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 29 Jan 2010, 02:46 am
I believe its only raison d'etre is a good marketing strategy to fill in the order book as well as try to satisfy the requests of people willing to order a product that no one has heard as an act of blind faith in the exellence of the designer.

As this is the industry ads section, yes I'd say one purpose is to get people excited about a new product. But it's also far more than that. If you look back over the thread, you'll see that there's also been a process of getting feedback from potential customers so that ultimately a more appealing product can be made, something that benefits both the buyers and Eastern Electric. It's also great for giving a consumer an idea of the design and production process. And yes, Eastern Electric has enough of a reputation for solid design, and is using a chip that enough people are excited about that people are willing to buy the product without having heard it. And in exchange for taking the risk (which is lessened somewhat by knowledge of the manufacturer & designer, as well as the feature set and the associated discussion of why this might be a great feature set) the early adopter gets a nice $100 discount. The skeptics need only wait for the opportunity to audition or read reviews and can then decide if this is a project worth spending their hard-earned money on. At the low, low cost of missing out on a $100 discount.

Based on the great reputation of Bill O'Connell and Eastern Electric and the features that the DAC offers, there's reason for excitement. I will likely wait and see what others impressions are, or see if I can hear the unit myself before buying. But not a thing wrong with that. And not a thing wrong with supporting a well-respected manufacturer and distributer and taking the plunge. The support and faith in Bill and Alex represented by early orders is a thing to be applauded. It shows that there is faith that they are moving in the right direction.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 29 Jan 2010, 10:25 am
Hi all, it is the ESS 9018 of course  :wink: It surely supports the 192KHz that I missed that in my last post.

I want to say thank you for all your very kind supports through out the development of this DAC. Your comments and inputs are invaluable.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 29 Jan 2010, 10:33 am
Hi all, it is the ESS 9018 of course  :wink: It surely supports the 192KHz that I missed that in my last post.

I want to say thank you for all your very kind supports through out the development of this DAC. Your comments and inputs are invaluable.

Cheers !

Alex

Just thought of this.  How is the DAC powered?  I am thinking, IF it's DC, say, I will look into if I have a linear power supply to go with it.  Way ahead of the game I guess.  But, it'd be good to know this spec, which I don't think was mentioned earlier.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oxric on 29 Jan 2010, 10:37 am
You are preaching to the converted!
Please do not misunderstand. There was no criticism implied with saying it's a good marketing strategy. It is something I would honestly consider using myself if I was launching  a new product, as it's a relatively cheap method of advertising, which allows one to keep costs down and produce a product without the usual premium price tag one would expect from the use of an innovative, state-of-the-art and expensive chip. I am quite aware of how expensive the Buffalo chip based around the ESS 9018 was before TwistedPear  discontinued production for rather obscure reasons. But I digress. I do appreciate the noble gesture of bringing an exciting dac within reach of all audiophiles out there.
But irrespective of price point, I believe that to use the ESS Dac 9018 and not to offer above 48kHz is a mistake and a wasted opportunity, as the excellence of this chip makes it a prime candidate to deal with the new high resolution material out there, that I for one am truly excited about. The Eastern Electric Dac is only a means to an end, as it should be, and ultimately it will be judged on how it serves that end. If that end does not  encompass addressing the high resolution material, fair enough, but it is a serious limitation and I will be looking forward to another product  that satisfies this requirement.
I will be disappointed though as I was almost certainly the first person in the UK to have ordered the dac and probably the reason we have a similar offering to Bill Connelly's albeit at a higher price (but we do get a five year warranty). I desisted from getting the Berkeley Alpha or Weiss Dac2, and may now find myself with a solution  which fails to address my most important requirement.
So maybe it's just that I will have to go back to tracking down a 9018 or 9022 ESS Dac chip and seeing if I can get it to do what I really want. I will first wait to see a confirmation that the Eastern Dac is truely limited  to 48kHz though.

Cheers
R
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oxric on 29 Jan 2010, 10:41 am
Alex,

I am sorry it looks like I missed your reply above! So please ignore my groundless concerns. I am glad to hear your dac will support up to 192kHz.

Cheers all
R
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 30 Jan 2010, 04:37 pm
oxric - Bill's marketing strategy here is not unique.  Like many of the products discussed on this site, the Eastern Electric products are available only online (i.e. no brick and mortar sales), and have a very loyal following and an excellent reputation.  I have met Bill in person, purchased an EE CDP from him, and auditioned one of his pre-amps.  The EE products are well built and sound great.  Also, Bill is a stand up guy and a serious audiophile.  Otherwise, I would not have been so quick to pony up a deposit on a product that is not even fully developed.  If this new DAC is in the same league as the other EE product, then this will be a fantastic product, and a tremendous bargain. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 1 Feb 2010, 06:53 pm
Very exciting update.  I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of the finished product from the photo shoot!

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 1 Feb 2010, 08:34 pm
Did I miss information about how the USB input signal will be handled? How will it interface with the Sabre chip? Will it be an i2s conversion or SPDIF or some other method?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 3 Feb 2010, 05:58 pm
Finally here are some photos of the DAC  :eyebrows:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26273)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26274)


Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: h.rav on 3 Feb 2010, 06:00 pm
^ Nice   :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 3 Feb 2010, 06:24 pm
Very attractive piece!  Those knobs look pretty hardcore.  Remind me of the Hovland HP100 appearance.

Will silver be an option as well?  Beautiful either way, just wondering if matching with my other eastern electric gear is a possibility.

Are these bad boys on their way to the US now?  Can't wait to retire my V-DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 3 Feb 2010, 10:19 pm
Very nice, classy design.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 4 Feb 2010, 12:10 am
 :D  Oooh, that looks pretty awesome.  Can't wait to have it in my greedy, grubby hands!

Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 4 Feb 2010, 12:35 am
Nice look... :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 4 Feb 2010, 02:04 am
Very attractive piece!  Those knobs look pretty hardcore.  Remind me of the Hovland HP100 appearance.

Will silver be an option as well?  Beautiful either way, just wondering if matching with my other eastern electric gear is a possibility.

Are these bad boys on their way to the US now?  Can't wait to retire my V-DAC.

Only black so far  :wink: The DACs will be put on board within a few days.

Cheers !


Alex






























Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 4 Feb 2010, 04:52 am
If anybody is interested in having the DAC Air freighted please let me know ASAP. The air shipment cost is an extra $72. Some have asked for the Air shipment as they want the DAC in their systems as soon as possible.

 Please let me know.
 Thanks,
 Bill
email:  bill@morningstaraudio.com
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: richidoo on 4 Feb 2010, 02:00 pm
Great job Bill and Alex. Congratulations!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 4 Feb 2010, 08:55 pm
Excellent! In in for Air transit. Would like a silver some time; maybe I can trade someone down the road.

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 6 Feb 2010, 12:31 pm
Bill:

What are the estimated delivery dates for air shipment and boat/UPS shipment?

I heard, supposedly shipping out of China/HK will be early next week; then Bill will turn them around to the buyers as he gets them, in a flash :thumb:.  So, receipt before month's end is very realistic. :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 6 Feb 2010, 02:15 pm
Bill:

What are the estimated delivery dates for air shipment and boat/UPS shipment?

 They will be on a plane on Monday and should arrive to me in 3 or 4 days. I'm hoping Thursday at the earliest, and Friday at the latest. Once I receive them I will ship them the same day if possible out to those who ordered.

 By boat, well we have to wait for one to leave the harbor with our container and then it takes about 18 days to sail over and depending which coast it arrives on, if the West coast then they put in on the railway system and deliver to Chicago then has to clear customs ,then the freight company I use picks it up after customs has cleared it, delivers to my warehouse and then I seperate and ship. I can't imagine they shut down the Chinese harbor's over their New Year but then again, it is a big celebration.All in all my guess would be if we were lucky enough to catch on with a ship at the end of next week the DAC would possibly arrive on your doorstep by April 1st.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 7 Feb 2010, 04:15 pm
Is anyone of the early adopters out there ready to do an A/B comparison and post the results (after reasonable break-in and all)? What sources will you be using and what competition are you going you pit the Minimax Sabre32 against? I am VERY excited about the Minimax and look forward to reading about its actual performance.
  :weights:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 7 Feb 2010, 04:33 pm
It's a bit early for this but I guess this listing may be of future interest for those who prefer the tube output.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=26420)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 11 Feb 2010, 02:28 pm
I'll be rolling some 12AU7s:

RTC wing plate square-getter
RTC long gray ribbed plate halo
Tung Sol D-getter
Ken Rad nickel/shiny black plate D-getter
Siemens nickel plate
RCA foil D-getter 5814
RCA 5963
Telefunken ribbed plate

others I can't recall.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 11 Feb 2010, 06:49 pm
I suspect most of us will do at least some rolling once these bad boys come in.

Are they out for delivery to you now, Bill?  I'm crossing my fingers at seeing mine early next week.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 11 Feb 2010, 07:14 pm
The DACs are probably at 30,000 feet right now  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 11 Feb 2010, 08:53 pm
The DACs are probably at 30,000 feet right now  :drool:

If they air-lifted them this past Monday or Tuesday, they should be at Ground Zero at Morningstar....??? :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 12 Feb 2010, 12:26 am
They did not arrive today. Hopefully tomorrow.I know their in Illinois according to my tracking, just not delivered to me yet. AAARRRRRGGGGG!

 Sorry, they're not in Illinois, that was just the DHL site telling me that is the location they will be coming too.  AAAARRRRGGGGGGGG.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 12 Feb 2010, 01:59 am
They did not arrive today. Hopefully tomorrow.I know their in Illinois according to my tracking, just not delivered to me yet. AAARRRRRGGGGG!

 Sorry, they're not in Illinois, that was just the DHL site telling me that is the location they will be coming too.  AAAARRRRGGGGGGGG.

Bill,

You're building up tension; guys will go up the fence!!!!!!!  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 12 Feb 2010, 02:45 am
What’s a good 12AU7 tube to start with? Also how good are the (I’m guessing Chinese) stock tubes.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jrebman on 12 Feb 2010, 04:51 pm
Best 12au7 type I ever found for the minimax pre was a triple mica, 1950s Raytheon blackplate 5814WA, which even bettered the outstanding Amperex 7316 PQ, which is also a fantastic tube.

Wish I were getting one of these new dacs, but can't swing it at the moment.  I'm looking forward to what the first round of users have to say about it though.  I've owned many EE products and they have always been outstanding, solid products that perform way above their price.

-- Jim
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 13 Feb 2010, 02:36 am
Did the DAC's arrive? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 14 Feb 2010, 01:42 pm
Did the DAC's arrive?

I/we certainly hope they have arrived in the US of A, and it's just that Bill has been toooo busy re-shipping to those who had ordered, so he can't post any update..... (don't need to if he's so busy!)  :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 15 Feb 2010, 02:25 pm
I think Bill would have given us an excited update if they'd arrived. 

I'm crossing my fingers they arrive/re-mail today so there is a chance I'll have mine for next weekend.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 15 Feb 2010, 05:16 pm
According to Bill they left Ohio last night and he expects them today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 15 Feb 2010, 05:22 pm
I am interested in one of these if there are any that are unspoken for or if someone wants to sell their preorder slot to me...

Shawn
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 16 Feb 2010, 05:28 pm
A quick update as of 11:00am ct this morning. DHL needed me to fax them my fein  number in certified document( 1120S form) to have the shipment released from customs in Cinncinatti Ohio :duh:. I just did this so hopefully they will release and get them to me ASAP. This is the first time we used them for Air shipment so with a little luck they should be on their way to me. Sorry for the delay but , this is what happens all to often. I will keep you informed as I know it borders on the ridiculous but much scrutiny( which I don't have a problem with) to make sure our country is safe from those who wish us harm is enforced.
 Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 17 Feb 2010, 07:31 pm
Any new word, Bill?  :drool:

Is DHL out for delivery? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 17 Feb 2010, 08:23 pm
Any new word, Bill?  :drool:

Is DHL out for delivery?

Just spoke with Bill - the DACs have arrived. I believe Bill is rather busy at the moment, so I took the liberty of posting on his behalf.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 18 Feb 2010, 01:34 am
Hi Guys,
 The Air shipment arrived this afternoon and I have been packing and shipping the afternoon all the way until the UPS man came for our pick-up.
 Most of them wwent out but I still have a days worth of shipping tomorrow to get all the Air freighted orders out.

 You have to give me a day to notify as I had previous commitment for this evening.so I'll notify everybody tomorrow email wise with tracking numbers.

 I will say,within an hour right out of the box it is very impressive. You've spent your audio dollars wisely grasshoppers. :icon_lol:

 Thank you all,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 03:51 am
Mine is up and running and I am quite pleased.  Bill - Thanks so much for letting me stop by and pick up the unit after hours.   :thumb:

The first tracks I played were from Diana Krall (various CDs), and I immediately noticed improvements from my prev DAC,  In comparison, the EE is open and airy, and subtle passages show greater detail.

The unit looks fantastic and appears to be very well built.  Also, the small size is great as it fits perfectly on the shelf next to the SB3.  The controls are very tight and have a quality feel when operated.  The LED lights are visible in a well lighted room, and yet not too bright when the room is dark (a complaint I have had with many prior audio components, including the EE CDP).  One complaint is the on/off button - you need to push it in firmly or it turns off again when you retract our finger. 

It also plays both music and movie DVDs (prev DAC did not), which is great news for me as I recently purchased the new Oppo BDP-83 and did not opt for the SE version.  Since I am only using two channels for my HT, the EE DAC eliminates the need to upgrade to the SE, nearly paying for itself on day one.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mchuckp on 18 Feb 2010, 04:25 am
Mine is up and running and I am quite pleased.  Bill - Thanks so much for letting me stop by and pick up the unit after hours.   :thumb:

The first tracks I played were from Diana Krall (various CDs), and I immediately noticed improvements from my prev DAC,  In comparison, the EE is open and airy, and subtle passages show greater detail.

The unit looks fantastic and appears to be very well built.  Also, the small size is great as it fits perfectly on the shelf next to the SB3.  The controls are very tight and have a quality feel when operated.  The LED lights are visible in a well lighted room, and yet not too bright when the room is dark (a complaint I have had with many prior audio components, including the EE CDP).  One complaint is the on/off button - you need to push it in firmly or it turns off again when you retract our finger. 

It also plays both music and movie DVDs (prev DAC did not), which is great news for me as I recently purchased the new Oppo BDP-83 and did not opt for the SE version.  Since I am only using two channels for my HT, the EE DAC eliminates the need to upgrade to the SE, nearly paying for itself on day one.   :thumb:

Looking forward to more impressions.  I have an Oppo SE and LOVE it.  I want a similar sound out of my SB.

Will the unit work when feeding SACD or Bluray through it?  This is the limitation of my PS Audio DLIII DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 04:30 am
Will the unit work when feeding SACD or Bluray through it?  This is the limitation of my PS Audio DLIII DAC.

I don't own any SACD disks, and don't have any Blue Ray movies in the house at the moment.  I will try the Blue Ray sampler disk shortly.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 05:05 am
I was able to play all of the sample tracks on the BD demo disk, including  DTS HD, and Dolby TrueHD. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mchuckp on 18 Feb 2010, 05:14 am
I was able to play all of the sample tracks on the BD demo disk, including  DTS HD, and Dolby TrueHD.

Thanks!  That is AWESOME!

Love to hear some thoughts at some point of the sound of the EE DAC vs gear you are replacing it with.  Glad to hear you are liking it. :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: grubyhalo on 18 Feb 2010, 05:22 am
I was able to play all of the sample tracks on the BD demo disk, including  DTS HD, and Dolby TrueHD.

 :scratch: How did you connect the BD player to the DAC?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 05:26 am
:scratch: How did you connect the BD player to the DAC?

Oppo -> Optical
SB3 -> Coax

Greatly simplifies my config as well. 

Wish I had a 3rd connector for the cable box.

I will be giving the USB connector a try with my Mac Mini in the future. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: grubyhalo on 18 Feb 2010, 05:54 am
Oppo -> Optical
SB3 -> Coax

Greatly simplifies my config as well. 

Wish I had a 3rd connector for the cable box.

I will be giving the USB connector a try with my Mac Mini in the future.

I was just curious as to how you managed to tap the hi-rez audio content to the DAC sans an HDMI interface. Maybe I got it all wrong. :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 18 Feb 2010, 06:26 am
John151....
Quote
The first tracks I played were from Diana Krall (various CDs), and I immediately noticed improvements from my prev DAC...

Which DAC would that be ? Thanks.... :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 02:25 pm
John151....
Which DAC would that be ? Thanks.... :thumb:

LiTe DAC 62 from Pacific Valve.  I have been very pleased with the DAC 62 as it made my SB3 sound soooo much better.  Thus, I want to be very careful not to come across as being negative towards 62 - it is a great sounding DAC.   In comparison to the EE, I would say the 62 is warmer, where the EE is more neutral.  As an example, my system has historically had trouble with Amy Winehouse (insert jokes here).  The bass on all of the tracks from Back To Black suffered from excessive bass, and it was really not enjoyable.  Over the years, I have been able to reduce the bass, but it was still at a level that I would not listen to Amy.  With the EE, the bass is clearly reduced and tighter.  The bass is still very strong on Rehab, but no longer drowns out the vocals.  I have noticed other tracks where the bass is also reduced, which the Jury is still deliberating on.  Another track that my system has struggled with is Norah Jones.  Not sure how to describe it, but her voice would spike at times, which was not very pleasant.  Over the years, my system has been table to tame this, but not enough.  The EE appears to have solved the issue with her voice spiking.    My very first impression, listening to Diana Krall, was that her voice sounded more delicate and "airy" (is that a word?), much like the sound that I heard when I had the EE CDP and Maggies (a sound I have been trying to get back to for years). 

Anyway, the unit is still breaking in, but my initial impressions are very positive.  The ISOTEK CD has been playing all night, so I look forward to some more listening today.  However, I leave town for Vail later today, so any further reviews will have to wait until next week.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 02:32 pm
I was just curious as to how you managed to tap the hi-rez audio content to the DAC sans an HDMI interface. Maybe I got it all wrong. :)

I don't know that I tapped the hi-rez as the EE DAC does not give any indication as to the resolution.  However, the EE DAC does play it, where my prev DAC would not.  Note that the Oppo does indicate on the front panel that it is using DTS HD or Dolby True HD. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Feb 2010, 03:09 pm
John 151,

Are these impressions with the tube or op-amp output? Any chance to compare the 2 different output stages?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 03:20 pm
John 151,

Are these impressions with the tube or op-amp output? Any chance to compare the 2 different output stages?

Only listened to the Tube output so far. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 18 Feb 2010, 04:13 pm
Quote
One complaint is the on/off button - you need to push it in firmly or it turns off again when you retract our finger.

I could see this as a benefit. Mine is en route. For some reason I haven't been getting notifications on this thread. Bill gave me the heads up via email; can't wait to check it out.

DC


Mine is up and running and I am quite pleased.  Bill - Thanks so much for letting me stop by and pick up the unit after hours.   :thumb:

The first tracks I played were from Diana Krall (various CDs), and I immediately noticed improvements from my prev DAC,  In comparison, the EE is open and airy, and subtle passages show greater detail.

The unit looks fantastic and appears to be very well built.  Also, the small size is great as it fits perfectly on the shelf next to the SB3.  The controls are very tight and have a quality feel when operated.  The LED lights are visible in a well lighted room, and yet not too bright when the room is dark (a complaint I have had with many prior audio components, including the EE CDP).  One complaint is the on/off button - you need to push it in firmly or it turns off again when you retract our finger. 

It also plays both music and movie DVDs (prev DAC did not), which is great news for me as I recently purchased the new Oppo BDP-83 and did not opt for the SE version.  Since I am only using two channels for my HT, the EE DAC eliminates the need to upgrade to the SE, nearly paying for itself on day one.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 18 Feb 2010, 04:16 pm
We'll be conducting a DAC shootout in a few weeks; enough time for the EEDAC to break-in:

Cambridge Audio DacMagic
Benchmark DAC
Cary Exciter DAC
EE DAC  :thumb:
Maverick Audio DAC
Peachtree Nova (possibly)

plus any others we can round up!

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Feb 2010, 04:45 pm
Look forward to the DAC comparisons. Especially if you can compare the EE and Peachtree implementation of the Sabre...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 18 Feb 2010, 04:54 pm
Look forward to the DAC comparisons. Especially if you can compare the EE and Peachtree implementation of the Sabre...

Well, I'm selling my Peachtree as I have no need for the amp anymore, so I'll be sure to compare them myself asap before it sells.

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 18 Feb 2010, 06:13 pm
Grrr.  I'm trying to track my package to see if it will make it here for the weekend, but UPS doesn't have an estimated delivery date or even the delivery address in their computers yet...   

The said the shipper never provided billing information or some crap. 

UPS, ftl!  They've got the consistently lamest excuses.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 18 Feb 2010, 07:39 pm
Hey, I started a thread on the EE DAC in the Critics Circle: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77901.new#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77901.new#new).

This thread is getting really long, and is more about ordering than reviews.   So, please post your reviews in the new thread. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 18 Feb 2010, 07:48 pm
Great idea

doccilantro's shootout would probably be best discussed there or in its own thread too, as this is an Industry Ad thread...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 19 Feb 2010, 02:18 pm
Hey Bill,

just noticed your new ad on audiogon, quoting US$ 850 instead of 750 I was prepared to pay once the first serious reviews were in. Too bad I didn't take advantage of the introductory offer.  :duh:

Cheers M.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 19 Feb 2010, 02:48 pm
...just noticed your new ad on audiogon, quoting US$ 850 instead of 750 I was prepared to pay once the first serious reviews were in.

Since that is what was originally stated, it might be a good idea to honor that for AC members for a limited time period.
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 19 Feb 2010, 02:57 pm
I got the impression that this project ran over budget and Bill forgot to update that price after the design was finalized. 

It would definitely be nice of him to honor it, but I can't imagine there is much of a profit margin on these units as is... 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 19 Feb 2010, 03:15 pm
I got the impression that this project ran over budget and Bill forgot to update that price after the design was finalized. 

It would definitely be nice of him to honor it, but I can't imagine there is much of a profit margin on these units as is...

Don't forget, these are made in China.  The cost line may be lower than you think (vs a unit manufactured in US of A).  I'm sure EE has gotten their $numbers lined up right.  Again, that (profitability) also depends on their projected volume.  We can safely assume that for $850 they have a comfortable "headroom" per unit at least, before the sunk costs are figured in.  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Feb 2010, 03:20 pm
Or this Audiogon price may just reflect the added expense of air shipping the first batch (fingers crossed).

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 19 Feb 2010, 03:31 pm
I think I'll wait for the MKII version (If there will be one). That solid state output is just a waste of money and I'm bothered the volume control cannot be bypassed. It'd be nice they can add another tube ...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 03:49 pm
Or this Audiogon price may just reflect the added expense of air shipping the first batch (fingers crossed).

 You hit the nail on the head, they will sell for $750 plus shipping but the Audiogon ad took into account the Air freight of $72 to get them here as soon as possible and the customs fee that I didn't think I would have to pay per unit.

All the AC members that preordered received a screaming deal and those that opted for the Air Freight only paid the additional $72 that it cost me, nothing added on.  I didn't add the customs dutie fees on because I hold up my end of the bargain on the price that I quoted here. :thumb:

 Hope that clarifies all my costs to you.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 19 Feb 2010, 03:59 pm
Bill,
 
When do you expect to have stock that will ship from your place of business?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 19 Feb 2010, 04:00 pm
Bill (& those with more understanding of these things than me, which likely includes about everyone following this thread  :o): 

I understand that the EE dac's USB input will be limited to 48k, but I'm trying to get a grip on why so many USB inputs are limited (given the chip's ability to handle higher res.)---so my question is what is the reason/rationale for the lower res limit for USB input?

I will be eager to read more in-depth reviews of the DAC, as I'm very interested!


Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 04:45 pm
Bill,
 
When do you expect to have stock that will ship from your place of business?
 
Steve



 Hi Steve,

  I have them in stock at my place now. Those who decided to have them Air freighted in,they have already been sent theirs by me. I had some extra ones Air shipped in and offered to all the option of the extra Air Freight charge to be paid for those who preordered but some wanted to wait for the slow boat from China as the extra $72 was not worth it to them to have early for whatever reason.
 One customer told me he didn't care if it came by Sailboat under wind power. :lol:

 Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 19 Feb 2010, 04:53 pm
...but some wanted to wait for the slow boat from China as the extra $72 was not worth it to them to have early for whatever reason.

That's what i was referring to.  When will "slow boat" inventory be available to send out?  Thanks!
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 19 Feb 2010, 05:01 pm
That solid state output is just a waste of money and I'm bothered the volume control cannot be bypassed.
So far as the volume control, I offered Bill the same suggestion -- that it would be nice if we could bypass it with a jumper if we're running a pre-amp.  I decided that wasn't a show stopper for me, so I ordered one anyway.

And although I'm a tube head, surprisingly I prefer the SS output over the tube output on my Cary CDP, at least in my current set-up. 

Steve (srb), if you look back earlier in the thread, I seem to recall Bill giving some idea of how long it will be before the boatload might arrive. 

Bob

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Feb 2010, 05:06 pm
Yes, let's wait to hear actual impressions of the SS output stage before dismissing it out of hand. IIRC, the op-amps are also socketed, so there is the possibility of "rolling" them much like tubes. The ability to experiment and really dial in the sound that best fits your tastes is a major appeal.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 05:12 pm

That's what i was referring to.  When will "slow boat" inventory be available to send out?  Thanks!
 
Steve

Hi Steve,

 I'm hoping for 4-5 weeks maybe a little sooner. It depends what coast they arrive on, then they hit a railcar here to Chicago, then a quick customs release usually 3-5 days then to have my shipper pick them up and deliver to me. Once they arrive I'll ship out immediately.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 05:28 pm
Yes, let's wait to hear actual impressions of the SS output stage before dismissing it out of hand. IIRC, the op-amps are also socketed, so there is the possibility of "rolling" them much like tubes. The ability to experiment and really dial in the sound that best fits your tastes is a major appeal.

 Just a quick note, replacing the op-amp is not like tube rolling so unless you know what the heck your doing, don't even think about replacing them.
 Some AC members are very qualified to do this, others, well don't try this by yourself.If your an engineer,or have the knowledge to do so and have extensive audio repair under your belt and are comfortable with the procedure then you do the modifications at your own risk .
 You can't expect us to warranty any tinkering done to the inside of this DAC in case you make a big mistake.

 Tube roll to your hearts content using a 12AU7 or a member of the 12AU7 family with the same electrical parameters. :thumb:
 Just because you have done some DIY tinkering doesn't qualify you to go under the hood :nono:

 Really men, if you don't know what your doing, Don't do it!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Feb 2010, 05:31 pm
Does this mean that the op-amps are not socketed? My impression from earlier in the thread was that this was going to be the case, which from other forums gave me the impression that swapping them was pretty simple (albeit warranty negating...).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 05:34 pm
Does this mean that the op-amps are not socketed? My impression from earlier in the thread was that this was going to be the case, which from other forums gave me the impression that swapping them was pretty simple (albeit warranty negating...).

 Yes, they are socketed. If you don't have the correct tool to pull them out then your not qualified,IMHO
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 19 Feb 2010, 07:42 pm
Mine arrived!  I ran home at lunch time and plugged it in feeding it pandora from my squeezebox so it will be good and warmed up when I get home. 

Sounded better than it had a right to out of the box--we'll see how this adventure pans out.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Vulcan00 on 19 Feb 2010, 08:13 pm
Yep ,  The UPS man just delievered Mine.

Harrison
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Vulcan00 on 19 Feb 2010, 08:16 pm
Bill

I appreciate your efforts to get it to me. Getting it today means I can enjoy it  all weekend.

Thank You
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 19 Feb 2010, 08:19 pm
Your Welcome.

but really, Thank you with all my heart.
Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 19 Feb 2010, 08:25 pm
Mine didn't make it, train derailment.  Maybe Monday.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 19 Feb 2010, 08:26 pm
You hit the nail on the head, they will sell for $750 plus shipping but the Audiogon ad took into account the Air freight of $72 to get them here as soon as possible and the customs fee that I didn't think I would have to pay per unit.

All the AC members that preordered received a screaming deal and those that opted for the Air Freight only paid the additional $72 that it cost me, nothing added on.  I didn't add the customs dutie fees on because I hold up my end of the bargain on the price that I quoted here. :thumb:

 Hope that clarifies all my costs to you.

 Thanks,
 Bill

 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Vulcan00 on 19 Feb 2010, 10:11 pm
Bumer     Bill@LakeGeorge

Hate to hear that. I just got mine set-up If you have a question I would be happy to try to answer it.
Harrison
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 19 Feb 2010, 11:05 pm
Mine didn't make it, train derailment.  Maybe Monday.

You need to post more Bill, it gets you moved up the ladder. J/K  :jester:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Vulcan00 on 19 Feb 2010, 11:24 pm
Just what tube is in this dac as received?   8)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 19 Feb 2010, 11:31 pm
Just what tube is in this dac as received?   8)

12AU7. Probably Shuguang?

It seems this DAC doesn't have a pure tube output stage as promised. This tube is still just a buffer.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 01:53 am
Got mine this evening.  Out of the box, sounds nice, already has substance in the sound (body).  The tube one is bodier, so to speak.  Soundstage immediately has sense of depth.

But.... I think I have a problem.  The sound fades (cuts out) every 10-15 seconds.  I see the "signal" light flickers, and the music gets cut out, and comes back over a 1/2- or 1-second interval when that happens.  I wiggled the connections, same problem.  I then turned off the amps and CD player, leaving the DAC alone being powered, same (I can see the signal light goes out and comes back in).  So, the problem is not the other equipment, it's the DAC.  Loose connection inside?  Defective?  I am leaving the DAC on, see how it will behave tomorrow morning.  :scratch:  :duh:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 20 Feb 2010, 03:14 am
Got mine this evening.  Out of the box, sounds nice, already has substance in the sound (body).  The tube one is bodier, so to speak.  Soundstage immediately has sense of depth.

But.... I think I have a problem.  The sound fades (cuts out) every 10-15 seconds.  I see the "signal" light flickers, and the music gets cut out, and comes back over a 1/2- or 1-second interval when that happens.  I wiggled the connections, same problem.  I then turned off the amps and CD player, leaving the DAC alone being powered, same (I can see the signal light goes out and comes back in).  So, the problem is not the other equipment, it's the DAC.  Loose connection inside?  Defective?  I am leaving the DAC on, see how it will behave tomorrow morning.  :scratch:  :duh:
Can you please tell me what input did you use ? Or did you try other inputs ? It looks like the signal is not "caught" or the signal is not sent stably.

Cheers !

Alex

p.s. Do you mean that when your CD player was turned off, the DAC signal light was still on ?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 10:44 am
Can you please tell me what input did you use ? Or did you try other inputs ? It looks like the signal is not "caught" or the signal is not sent stably.

Cheers !

Alex

p.s. Do you mean that when your CD player was turned off, the DAC signal light was still on ?

It is now about 6 a.m.  Just got up.  Stared at the DAC, left on overnight, with the other stuff all shut off.  I still see the signal light, pilot light, however you call it, flickering every 15, 20 seconds.  In other words, it goes out and comes back.  I played music, the the music would go faded for a second and come back in.  I was using Coax, which is the only input I use.  I also switched power cords this morning, tho I thought wouldn't be necessary.  Why?  With all other gear shut down, the signal light still goes in and out, I don't think it's the DAC not catching the signal.  It's some quirk "internal" at the DAC, and not external.

Oh, the signal is still on with all other input is shutoff; the DAC's power was not turned off.  The signal light still goes in and out at idle (again, no other gear, DAC, preamp, power amp, CDP, is on).  :scratch:

I next will contact Bill.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 20 Feb 2010, 11:44 am
It is now about 6 a.m.  Just got up.  Stared at the DAC, left on overnight, with the other stuff all shut off.  I still see the signal light, pilot light, however you call it, flickers every 15, 20 seconds.  In other words, it goes out and comes back.  I played music, the the music would go silent for a second and comes back in.  I was using Coax, which is the only input I use.  I also switch power cords this morning, tho I thought wouldn't be necessary.  Why?  With all other gear shut down, the signal light still goes in and out.  I don't think it's the DAC not catching the signal.  It's some quirk "internal" at the DAC, and not external.

Oh, the signal is still on with all other input is shutoff; the DAC's power was not turned off.  The signal light still goes in and out at idle (again, no other gear, DAC, preamp, power amp, CDP, is on).

I next will contact Bill.

Shek, open your door I've been outside all night waiting to hear this thing.  . I hope I'm at the right apartment .
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 11:55 am
You probably were at Apt. 101.  Sorry, it's your faulty memory; it's Apt. 102, my friend.  I was afraid to go check out when I heard banging and shouting next door.  Besides, the music was too intoxicating!  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 20 Feb 2010, 11:57 am
You probably were at Apt. 101.  Sorry, it's your faulty memory; it's Apt. 102, my friend.  I was afraid to go check out when I heard banging and shouting next door.  Besides, the music was too intoxicating!  :lol:

And the women in 101 were also intoxicating  :green:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 02:35 pm
Can you please tell me what input did you use ? Or did you try other inputs ? It looks like the signal is not "caught" or the signal is not sent stably.

Cheers !

Alex

p.s. Do you mean that when your CD player was turned off, the DAC signal light was still on ?

Update -

Alex,

I just did some switching, 3 power cords, 3 coaxial wires, 2 CD players, 2 preamps, and 2 sets of I/Cs.  Same flickering on the signal button; the music is just itermittently cutting out.  I guess it still points to my theory that somehow something is not working right internally with the unit. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 20 Feb 2010, 03:24 pm
Hi there,

If unplug all inputs and let the DAC stand alone, does it happen the same ?

Do you have a optical cable to try the optical input ?

I am thinking if there is any interference goes thru the ground as the ESS9018 mutes if no signal is detected.

Cheers !

Alex

Update -

Alex,

I just did some switching, 3 power cords, 3 coaxial wires, 2 CD players, 2 preamps, and 2 sets of I/Cs.  Same flickering on the signal button; the music is just itermittently cutting out.  I guess it still points to my theory that somehow something is not working right internally with the unit.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 03:34 pm
Hi there,

If unplug all inputs and let the DAC stand alone, does it happen the same ?

Do you have a optical cable to try the optical input ?

Cheers !

Alex

Yeap,

I did just that also earlier this morning, pulled it, and checked with just a power cord on it.  Don't have an optical wire.  Doesn't matter, I use exclusively coax, so I presume that side of the signal chain on mine is faulty.  I'd like to get it replaced ASAP.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 20 Feb 2010, 03:38 pm
Okay, please let me know how the replacement goes when you get it.

Thanks.

Alex

Yeap,

I did just that also earlier this morning, pulled it, and checked with just a power cord on it.  Don't have an optical wire.  Doesn't matter, I use exclusively coax, so I presume that side of the signal chain on mine is faulty.  I'd like to get it replaced ASAP.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 20 Feb 2010, 03:48 pm
Shek,

   I will send you a new one out on Monday to replace that one that seems to be faulty. I'll send you a check inside the box also to reimburse you for the return shipping of the DAC.
 I would call you but you left on my voicemail your number so quickly and my voicemail cut out so I couldn't understand the number.
 Sorry,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 20 Feb 2010, 03:57 pm
Shek,

   I will send you a new one out on Monday to replace that one that seems to be faulty. I'll send you a check inside the box also to reimburse you for the return shipping of the DAC.
 I would call you but you left on my voicemail your number so quickly and my voicemail cut out so I couldn't understand the number.
 Sorry,
 Bill

Appreciate it, Bill.  That's fast response, shipping out without getting the old one back first.  I am next going to the post office to ship this one out then.  It's already been packaged.

Have a nice weekend.  Again, appreciate it!

Shek
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 22 Feb 2010, 06:03 pm

It seems this DAC doesn't have a pure tube output stage as promised. This tube is still just a buffer.

What makes you say this?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 22 Feb 2010, 06:31 pm
I believe that there are pics of the insides on the Audiogon ads for the DAC, for those who can eyeball the difference between a tube output stage and a tube buffer...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 22 Feb 2010, 06:37 pm
I believe that there are pics of the insides on the Audiogon ads for the DAC, for those who can eyeball the difference between a tube output stage and a tube buffer...

thanks. that's why I asked.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 22 Feb 2010, 06:47 pm
Hi there,

Just to clarify, it is a tube output, not a buffer stage.

Cheers !

Alex
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 22 Feb 2010, 06:52 pm
I believe that there are pics of the insides on the Audiogon ads for the DAC, for those who can eyeball the difference between a tube output stage and a tube buffer...

Well, Alex answered before I was finished typing, but without knowing whether it is a double-sided or four-layer PCB, you couldn't definitively know where the tube connections go by looking at the photo, particularly since there is a switch to choose between SS and tube output.
 
Besides, tubesound is not interested in this model because the solid state output is "just a waste of money" and the volume control cannot be bypassed.
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 22 Feb 2010, 07:44 pm


It seems this DAC doesn't have a pure tube output stage as promised. This tube is still just a buffer.

stop wasting our valuable time with your utterly vapid speculation. I'm wondering who you work for w/ 20 posts here on AC. Nuforce?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 23 Feb 2010, 02:18 pm
I did some low level listening last night for family reasons. Just breaking it in at this point.

Build quality is superb imo. Pots and buttons are solid. I'm VERY happy I can swap the tube w/o having to open the chassis.

I had my Maverick DAC at home from work the other day and and there is some hum and buzz with the EE DAC in place; substantially more which was surprising. I did however switch cables between changing DACs. I now have on a pair of MAC Reference whereas before I had some Tom Tutay Blue Velvets. Speakers are 94db Omegas.

I'll put the Blue Velvets on the EE and see what happens. I didn't get any dropouts when connected via BNC to the Musiland 01 (I will be testing with a Lynx card soon), but swore I noticed the sync light fade out once or twice.

I noticed in the manual that 96kHz is not an option so I wonder if this is like the Peachtree implementation but the inverse; they chose not to use 192kHz and only upsample to 96kHz.

So I'm guessing native 96kHz material is upsampled to 192khZ by the EE DAC???
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 23 Feb 2010, 02:38 pm
doctorcilantro,

Was the buzz and hum there for both tube and op-amp outputs?

Others hearing any hum and buzz?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 23 Feb 2010, 02:46 pm
Yes, for both. If I have my Klipsch RF7s still this would be substantial. I'm not pointing the finger at the DAC, just reporting my empirical observations. I have it connected to my wonderful EE Minimax and I think it very well could be the cable. I will be sure to check tonight.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 23 Feb 2010, 04:16 pm
Re Docilantro's comments about 96khz--I also noticed that 96khz is not listed in the list of rates on the Audiogon ad.  Bill and/or Alex, can you tell us what happens when the DAC is fed a 96khz signal?

Most of my library is upsampled to 24/96...

Thanks!

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 23 Feb 2010, 05:29 pm
When the signal is 96KHz, it is treated still 96KHz. In fact there are some frequencies in among all those listed are supported by the DAC and 192KHz is the highest supported frequency.

Cheers !

Alex

Re Docilantro's comments about 96khz--I also noticed that 96khz is not listed in the list of rates on the Audiogon ad.  Bill and/or Alex, can you tell us what happens when the DAC is fed a 96khz signal?

Most of my library is upsampled to 24/96...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 23 Feb 2010, 07:08 pm
Alex, thanks for clearing that up, and I'm glad to learn that indeed the DAC handles 96kHz.

Is there any 'easy, non-technical' answer to my earlier question re why so many USB inputs (including the EE DAC) are limited to 48Khz?

Thanks again,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 24 Feb 2010, 12:34 am
I could not get the optical from my airport express to work with the dac.  The signal light was flashing green.  What does that mean?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 24 Feb 2010, 07:00 am
Hi Randy,

Oh I am sorry, the EE DAC USB input does support 192KHz !! I kept thinking of the old chips.

Cheers !!

Alex

Alex, thanks for clearing that up, and I'm glad to learn that indeed the DAC handles 96kHz.

Is there any 'easy, non-technical' answer to my earlier question re why so many USB inputs (including the EE DAC) are limited to 48Khz?

Thanks again,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tubesound on 24 Feb 2010, 09:33 am
stop wasting our valuable time with your utterly vapid speculation. I'm wondering who you work for w/ 20 posts here on AC. Nuforce?

Well your statement is a speculation too  :wink:

I'm glad Alex confirmed EE DAC has a true tube output stage.

I believe Nuforce's uDAC and HDP both use Sabre chips as well but I won't buy them. I could've waited for W4S DAC-1.

As a matter of fact, right now I'm trying to buy a >10 years old DAC (with those 1-bit or 18-bit or 20-bit chips).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 24 Feb 2010, 01:39 pm
Hi Randy,

Oh I am sorry, the EE DAC USB input does support 192KHz !! I kept thinking of the old chips.

Cheers !!

Alex

Awesome news Alex!!  Now I don't know what my excuse can be for not trying one of these little jewels     :o!!  Last question--any plans for units with silver faceplates in the near future??

Thanks again; you and Bill have been very patient and helpful with replies to all the queries in this thread.

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 24 Feb 2010, 02:33 pm
Oh I am sorry, the EE DAC USB input does support 192KHz !! I kept thinking of the old chips.

Sorry for my confusion, Alex.  Did you really mean to say the USB input supports 192KHz, as earlier in the thread you did say it was limited to 16bit/48KHz for USB.
 
Could you tell us which USB receiver chip you did end up using?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 24 Feb 2010, 03:49 pm
Hi Randy,

Oh I am sorry, the EE DAC USB input does support 192KHz !! I kept thinking of the old chips.

Cheers !!

Alex

 Hi Guys,

 I think Alex's head is spinning and just was confused for a moment when he posted this.
 The USB only supports 48KHz not 192KHz,
I just emailed him so he might still not have gone to bed but he will clarify with certainty. I just think he misposted this by mistake,

 sorry for the confusion but english is not his first language, and he may have been tired or had a glass of wine but he will set the record straight in a bit.
 sorry,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 25 Feb 2010, 07:36 am
Hi Steve,

Yes the USB input supports 192KHz. The USB receiving chip is Burr Brown PCM2706. There are different data about this chip, we however have tested it with professional industrial grade 192KHz signal and it works perfectly.

Cheers !

Alex


Sorry for my confusion, Alex.  Did you really mean to say the USB input supports 192KHz, as earlier in the thread you did say it was limited to 16bit/48KHz for USB.
 
Could you tell us which USB receiver chip you did end up using?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 25 Feb 2010, 05:04 pm
Yes the USB input supports 192KHz. The USB receiving chip is Burr Brown PCM2706. There are different data about this chip, we however have tested it with professional industrial grade 192KHz signal and it works perfectly.

The TI PCM270x family is capable of 16-bit resolution and sample rates of 32KHz, 44.1KHz and 48KHz.  So if it is fed a higher bit and/or sampling rate, then it must somehow be truncated and/or downsampled, or .......?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: TomS on 25 Feb 2010, 05:33 pm

The TI PCM270x family is capable of 16-bit resolution and sample rates of 32KHz, 44.1KHz and 48KHz.  So if it is fed a higher bit and/or sampling rate, then it must somehow be truncated or downsampled, or .......?
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
Yes, and I'd think the drivers would need to accommodate that too...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 25 Feb 2010, 11:01 pm
The DAC does not do 192kHz in WASAPI, but does in DirectSound leading me to believe it is downsampled. Also, see Windows Sound Device Properties.


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=27180)


(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=27182)

It does however, sound GREAT via BNC (with Musiland transport - Lynx cables aren't here yet to test AES). I will be A/B'ing against the Nova soon hopefully. We do have a new member in the family, very new, so at worst, it will make to a 5 DAC shootout next Tuesday.

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 27 Feb 2010, 12:44 pm
I cannot get the DAC to hold the signal from the Airport Express TOSlink.  The audio plays for a second, the signal is lost and then it finds it again.  Anyone have that problem with TOSlink?  If I have more time, I will try to hookup my CD player that has TOSlink and see if it is a TOSlink issue or an Airport Express issue.  Other than that, the DAC sounds very good.  It's very transparent.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 27 Feb 2010, 03:14 pm
FWIW, I've connected my Squeezebox via Toslink and am not having any problems....

Cheers,
Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 27 Feb 2010, 03:28 pm
I went from my directv receiver to the EE dac via Toslink with no problems also. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 27 Feb 2010, 04:08 pm
Peachtree had to do a firmware update to the Nova as the n Airports weren't compatible. Anyone using g versions?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 27 Feb 2010, 04:42 pm
I watched a BluRay DVD last night using TOSLINK (Oppo-83) with no issues.  I did an A/B comparison between TOSLINK and analog outputs from the Oppo just to make sure the EE DAC was sending all of the channels into the L/R.  Both sounded excellent, but the Oppo was clearly warmer/darker  (not that I really care for movies).  Most importantly, the audio track from the EE DAC was clear and audible, and the background noises (surround tracks) had great imaging (darn impressive for only two channels).

Next up, I will try connecting the Comcast cable box via a conversion cable from Coax to AES/EBU.  The motivation here is not to get better sound per se, but to simplify the logistics as the DAC would then handle all source switching, where I currently use the PreAmp to switch between the ComCast and DAC sources.   

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 27 Feb 2010, 04:45 pm
Peachtree had to do a firmware update to the Nova as the n Airports weren't compatible. Anyone using g versions?

Very interesting.  And here I thought a Toslink output was a Toslink output.  Any idea what was different about them?
 
I don't have the Minimax DAC yet, but I have three Airport Express N.  On one of them I tried to use a Y-connector to sum an analog mono signal, but it was greatly distorted.  Apparently the AE G version was able to do this without any degradation.  So it appears that one more thing has changed between the G and N versions (beyond the wireless speed).
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 27 Feb 2010, 04:46 pm
Thanks for the report John151,

Look forward to hearing how the Oppo and EE compare when used with music.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 27 Feb 2010, 05:48 pm
I think the problem was the n version. I think they claimed it was Apple's fault; the device has considerably more jitter iirc.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 28 Feb 2010, 03:41 am
Did Alex ever comment on the confusion regarding whether the USB input was capable of more than 48kHz?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 28 Feb 2010, 04:00 am
No, but since
 
  - the TI 2706 USB chip is a 16bit/48KHz chip
 
  - doctorcilantro reported that 24bit/192KHz doesn't work under the WASAPI driver (although that resolution would require special drivers under USB, but I'm sure he would have the same result with a 24bit/96KHz file)
 
  - under Windows DirectSound, 16bit/48KHz is the highest possible setting
 
anything above 16bit/48KHz is obviously downsampled through the USB input.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 28 Feb 2010, 04:07 am
Yes, it's capped at 48; not sure what the DAC does with it though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 28 Feb 2010, 06:07 am
I think the problem was the n version. I think they claimed it was Apple's fault; the device has considerably more jitter iirc.
I wasn't aware of the AEX issues until now which is a real bummer and apparently is above all a problem of the AEX n and iTunes 8+.

In Apple Support forums I found this workaround: "Two weeks ago it became impossible to endure and I went into various logs to see what was going on - what I found was an AEx continually trying to set its time from Apple's Time Servers and getting timeouts on the connection. I went into the Airport Utility and told the AEx not to get the time from the internet (why does an AEx need the time anyway?) and ever since then there has been not one single dropout."

Have you tried it?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 28 Feb 2010, 06:11 am
I wasn't aware of the AEX issues until now which is a real bummer and apparently is above all a problem of the AEX n and iTunes 8+.

In Apple Support forums I found this workaround: "Two weeks ago it became impossible to endure and I went into various logs to see what was going on - what I found was an AEx continually trying to set its time from Apple's Time Servers and getting timeouts on the connection. I went into the Airport Utility and told the AEx not to get the time from the internet (why does an AEx need the time anyway?) and ever since then there has been not one single dropout."

Have you tried it?

Cheers!

nice fix.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 28 Feb 2010, 06:42 am
I went into the Airport Utility and told the AEx not to get the time from the internet (why does an AEx need the time anyway?) and ever since then there has been not one single dropout."

Although I am using my 3 Airport Express N's with analog outputs for now, I was having a rather long connection time when rebooting or powering them up.  The status LED would be on solid amber during the bootup procedure for ~ a minute (normal), then would flash amber for as much as 5 to 10 minutes before connecting and the staus LED turning green.
 
Now, after disabling the automatic time set, a half dozen amber flashes and I'm connected.  Thanks!   :)
 
The only reason I can see to have the time set correctly in an AE, would be if you are using it as your primary router connection to the Internet, and would want to see a time stamp on the connection log (and for hacking attempts).  But I assume most of us are using it to extend an existing wireless network.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 28 Feb 2010, 09:26 am
Hi Folks,

I am sorry, it was my mistake and I went much ahead. The USB receiving chip does not support 192KHz. It works sometimes with some frequencies, some are truncated.

Thanks.

Alex





No, but since
 
  - the TI 2706 USB chip is a 16bit/48KHz chip
 
  - doctorcilantro reported that 24bit/192KHz doesn't work under the WASAPI driver (although that resolution would require special drivers under USB, but I'm sure he would have the same result with a 24bit/96KHz file)
 
  - under Windows DirectSound, 16bit/48KHz is the highest possible setting
 
anything above 16bit/48KHz is obviously downsampled through the USB input.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 28 Feb 2010, 12:19 pm
Could anyone with a AEx and a toslink cable please check if disabling the automatic time set on the AEx improves the connection to the Minimax DAC (or any other DAC you have on hand) as well?

Thanks!


Although I am using my 3 Airport Express N's with analog outputs for now, I was having a rather long connection time when rebooting or powering them up.  The status LED would be on solid amber during the bootup procedure for ~ a minute (normal), then would flash amber for as much as 5 to 10 minutes before connecting and the staus LED turning green.
 
Now, after disabling the automatic time set, a half dozen amber flashes and I'm connected.  Thanks!   :)
 
The only reason I can see to have the time set correctly in an AE, would be if you are using it as your primary router connection to the Internet, and would want to see a time stamp on the connection log (and for hacking attempts).  But I assume most of us are using it to extend an existing wireless network.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 28 Feb 2010, 01:40 pm
I tried it.  No, it didn't stop the issue.  It reduced it a bit.  Every 20-30 seconds, the sound cuts out.  The AEX works fine when hooked to my Anthem D2.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 28 Feb 2010, 03:50 pm
I tried it.  No, it didn't stop the issue.  It reduced it a bit.  Every 20-30 seconds, the sound cuts out.  The AEX works fine when hooked to my Anthem D2.

Call Bill send it back, mine had the same problem with the coax connection.  I guess they had to add a capacitor or ???
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 28 Feb 2010, 07:34 pm
Tried the USB input today using my netbook (Foobar) and a portable drive, I was very happy with the sound I got and no issues.

In the next week or so I will try an M2Tech USB interface w/BNC cable to give the BNC input a go.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 1 Mar 2010, 12:49 pm
I would like to find out if this is an issue with my unit or all units.  Can someone else try it with an AEX?

Shawn
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 1 Mar 2010, 03:20 pm
Can people report what connections and sample rates they have tried and the results?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 1 Mar 2010, 04:58 pm
I would like to find out if this is an issue with my unit or all units.  Can someone else try it with an AEX?

Shawn

I believe the coax problem I had exists on all units.

I think Alex or Bill should chime in here and let the masses know.

That being said I have just over a 100 hours on the dac, about 20 hours listening and the rest using the Isotek break-in disc and it does sound good.  It seems to have more body and warmth than my AVA Insight+ dac.  After about 200 hours I will be comparing the 2 side by side.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 1 Mar 2010, 05:08 pm
Hi all,

I am investigating the issue with my engineers. It is a little difficult as I do not have your same signal sources to try. I may need Bill to send me back one or two units that have such issue. I will post as soon as I have any update of findings.

Cheers !

Alex

I believe the coax problem I had exists on all units.

I think Alex or Bill should chime in here and let the masses know.

That being said I have just over a 100 hours on the dac, about 20 hours listening and the rest using the Isotek break-in disc and it does sound good.  It seems to have more body and warmth than my AVA Insight+ dac.  After about 200 hours I will be comparing the 2 side by side.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 1 Mar 2010, 05:13 pm
We auditioned Shek's EE DACs' USB and BNC input in our rave meeting yesterday and that works truly superb! 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 1 Mar 2010, 05:57 pm
A few of the units so far had this problem and we have come up with the solution and repaired those that were dropping the signal but we are going to try something else this evening that Alex and the engineers said might work better and so I promise I will update you later this evening if I can get my tech here to try the latest fix tonight if he isn't to busy.
 If your experiencing this problem ,please just hold off for a day or 2, let us make sure the solution is correct and I promise I will reimburse any shipping fees due to have the repair done. The repair only takes 15 minutes at the most.
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 2 Mar 2010, 01:29 am
Hi Guys,

 If anybody is having a problem with the Coax input, please let me know as we tried the fix that Alex and the engineers recommended.
 Everything will work perfectly now :thumb:, please email me at
bill@morningstaraudio.com
 and I will send you out a new unit that has the fix and reimburse you for any shipping cost that you incur. If you would rather have me issue a call tag to have the DAC picked up by UPS I can do that also.

 We are so sorry that this happened :oops: but until the first issue arose with the first DAC we didn't know and then it happened to a second unit so then Alex and the engineers had to check it out but by then the DAC's had shipped out from me to you. Not all the DAC's had the issue but just having one out there not working properly has had me worried and losing sleep over it.

 My sincerest apology,
 Bill O'Connell 

 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 01:38 am
Bill,
 
Does this also address the problem some are experiencing using the optical input fed from the Apple Airport Express N (which for whatever reason apparently works fine with the optical input on the other DACs that they own)?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nature boy on 2 Mar 2010, 02:14 am
Bill is the real deal and a stand up guy.  I love my Minimax preamp and appreciate how he is handling this hick up with the new DAC's. 

NB

 
Hi Guys,

 If anybody is having a problem with the Coax input, please let me know as we tried the fix that Alex and the engineers recommended.
 Everything will work perfectly now :thumb:, please email me at
bill@morningstaraudio.com
 and I will send you out a new unit that has the fix and reimburse you for any shipping cost that you incur. If you would rather have me issue a call tag to have the DAC picked up by UPS I can do that also.

 We are so sorry that this happened :oops: but until the first issue arose with the first DAC we didn't know and then it happened to a second unit so then Alex and the engineers had to check it out but by then the DAC's had shipped out from me to you. Not all the DAC's had the issue but just having one out there not working properly has had me worried and losing sleep over it.

 My sincerest apology,
 Bill O'Connell
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 2 Mar 2010, 02:30 am
Steve,

 I'm more than embarrassed to admit I don't even know what Airport Apple Expree N is.

 I have a Macbook Pro laptop and just use the Itunes. Is there something special I should know about the AAEx N . Does it sound better then Itunes? I could do a search and educate myself a little( and will) but if you would be so kind to give me a quick synopsis of the advantages I would appreciate it

 Thank you,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jtwrace on 2 Mar 2010, 02:34 am
Steve,

 I'm more than embarrassed to admit I don't even know what Airport Apple Expree N is.

 Thank you,
 Bill

Apple Airport Express "N" is a wireless router that is "N" capable.

http://www.apple.com/airportexpress/

Many stream music to / through it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 2 Mar 2010, 02:39 am
AEX has a toslink output like the optical out on the recent Macbooks, requires that Toslink cable has adapter for 1/8" plug, which on AEX and Macbook can output analog or optical, recognizing each of those automatically.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 02:43 am
Bill,
 
The Apple Airport Express is a compact wireless router that has only one wired LAN port.
 
Although it can connect to a cable or DSL modem and be your only wireless router (with the limitation of only one wired LAN port), most people use it in conjunction with their existing wireless router to wirelessly stream iTunes audio via the AirTunes feature.
 
It has a mini-Toslink optical output (like on iMacs and MacBooks) that can be fed to a DAC with an optical input.  The current version is 802.11 'N' wireless, where the previous version was 802.11 'G'.
 
For some reason, some DACs are having trouble keeping the optical signal locked with the newest 'N' version, while others are not.  I think the other DAC that was mentioned having the problem was the Peachtree Nova, which also uses an ESS Sabre chip (different model chip).  Hmmm.........  DoctorCilantro previously reported "Peachtree had to do a firmware update to the Nova as the n Airports weren't compatible."
 
Steve
 
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=27336)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 2 Mar 2010, 02:52 am
I just did a small search but did find this.

Thanks to Peter Logan at Crutchfield who wrote the article but it was dated.

"Again, uncharacteristically delving into the owner's manual, I discovered that in the WDS mode, the AirPort Express does not support WPA wireless security. As my existing wireless network was using WPA security, I had to access the AirPort Setup Utility to set the security level to WEP — still very secure, but not quite as robust as WPA. After a few tweaks to the AirPort Setup Assistant, I set my main base station to allow the AirPort Express to join and extend the range of the network. After matching the security levels and passwords, the AirPort Express seamlessly joined the existing network."


 I do have wireless,  using a Linksys router and have the encryption of WEP 128 bit  which is good protection from what I have read.
 Using that, I just haven't tried the Apple Airport Express so I'm just not familiar but from the little I have read this could be the problem.

 I know earlier in this thread somebody had a way to make the Airport work, I will have to read it over again to familiarize myself with it.

 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 03:03 am
WPA, or WPA2, is a more secure encryption than WEP.  I was able to connect the Airport Express to my D-Link-624 'G' router using WPA, but it would repeatedly loose the connection multiple times throughout the day, and take a rather long time to reconnect, so I reverted to using WEP.
 
I know others have successfully kept them connected under WPA, so I thought it might just be my older router with an older early 2007 WPA implementation.
 
But the wireless connection is not the problem users are experiencing with the EE and Peachtree DACs.  It's the optical connection to the DAC.  I think somewhere in this thread, higher jitter on this AE 'N' version was mentioned.  Maybe that's it, and somehow the ESS Sabre chips are less tolerant of jitter on the Toslink input?
 
I don't know, but I would sure like to know about this supposed firmware update that can be applied to the Sabre.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 2 Mar 2010, 03:11 am
If I understand correctly, the AEX optical out was working with other DACs but not with the EE.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 03:14 am
That's correct, and another DAC that supposedly had trouble with it was the Peachtree Audio Nova, which also uses an ESS Sabre series chip.  I wonder if any Twisted Pear Buffalo DAC (another ESS Sabre based DAC) users had any problems?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 2 Mar 2010, 06:20 am
Many thanks Bill, for trying to help out those who use the AEx N to pipe computer-stored music into their main audio system.

I am not sure about roscoeili's statement though regarding other DACs playing nicely with the AEx's optical out. When I googled around yesterday I found a number of posts mentioning this problem with a variety of DACs. And someone from Empirical audio commented on the extremely high jitter of the AEx N optical out which in his opinion rendered it useless for hi-fi. A statement that stands in stark contrast to what I've read before buying the AEx, namely a bit-perfect output that, in conjunction with a good DAC, provides extremely good sound quality, wirelessly.

If this thread would serve the purpose of finding the underlying cause of the problem and address it properly (for instance with a firmware update), I'd be sold on the EE DAC in a second.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 2 Mar 2010, 06:49 am
I'm not up to speed yet on the Airport Express but we really didn't build the EE DAC around trying to support the Apple product, it seems they have some issues with other DAC's also as you have suggested.

 We will however see what can be done to possibly resolve the issue.If something can we will, if not, we still will if possible.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 2 Mar 2010, 06:55 am
aloft,
 you mentioned the extremely high jitter in the AEx N, I would think the EE DAC with the ESS Technology Sabre 9018 Dac chip with its reputation for Jitterless( why do I want to put in the girl icon with the bouncing jugs here) would eliminate that problem.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 07:59 am
I don't know if the info about Peachtree updating firmware on the chip to alleviate this is true, but it couldn't hurt to query ESS about it.
 
Although I am currently using the analog out with my 3 Airport Express in non-critical locations (and not on the main system), I know that others may be wanting to use it as their primary music server connection.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 2 Mar 2010, 11:59 am
Bill,

of course I wouldn't expect you to support an Apple product, but OTOH it'd be a heck of a selling point if the EE technical engineers would be able to resolve the problem. I presume most people buying a DAC today store their music files on NAS servers somewhere else in the house rather than nearby their main audio system. This still doesn't make it your problem, but I'd be nice if you could contribute to a solution.

If anybody else could chime in presenting an alternative to the AEx N, I'd be all ears. For instance, does the AEx "G", which by all accounts works fine, provide enough usable bandwith to playback Apple Lossless files?

Thanks,

Matt
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 2 Mar 2010, 01:23 pm
and I think that you will find that a large number of audiophiles are using the AEX becuase it is both a very simple and inexpensive way to stream music, and it got a great review in Stereophile when released. A potent combo.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 2 Mar 2010, 03:52 pm
A user with the Peachtree Nova ran through a number of Toslink cables and I believe he ended up finding one that worked; it was the most well-constructed one. The AEX-N apparently does have high jitter.

My results w/ my replacement unit from Bill (many thanks on your outstasninding customer service!):

Oppo BDP83 Tos. - perfect
Oppo BDP83 Coax RCA - perfect

Musiland Coax RCA - dropping sync; slow blinking at 44kHz; fast blinking at 96kHz; rapid blinking at 192kHz
Musiland Coax BNC - dropping sync; slow blinking at 44kHz; fast blinking at 96kHz; rapid blinking at 192kHz

Unfortunately, I mailed the Musiland back to a friend (who been patiently waiting too lng already) and could not test the Toslink output. I did, however, use this same unit via BNC on my Peachtree Nova with no issues, BUT ironically when the Nova was modded for BNC, they tethered it onto the 2nd digital input....the one which accepts more jitter.

I will be able to test with these in the next few weeks:

Sony DVP-S330 (RCA)
Roku streamer (RCA)
Lynx AES16 (AES)

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 2 Mar 2010, 03:57 pm
It is strange that Peachtree had to mod their units, and now we have these problems arising on AEX here and with the Musiland.

Seems like ESS patented jitter elimination magic is simply to block high jitter transports data stream LOL.....
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 2 Mar 2010, 05:06 pm
Another DAC that had problems with the Airport Express optical was the HeadRoom Ultra Desktop DAC that uses the ............... ESS Sabre chip.
 
A reference on a HeadRoom Forum thread was made to the  "jitter acceptance aperature software setting".
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 2 Mar 2010, 11:19 pm
It is rather annoying to buy a product and not have it work with the product you have used for a year +.  I have had the AEX with my Anthem for a year or so.  I added the EE Dac because I am setting up a second system and was going to use an AEX for that.  Now that will not be a possibility if the AEX issue is not fixed. The AEX works fine with the Anthem...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 2 Mar 2010, 11:35 pm
Forgive an uniformed question, but do the Airport Express' have any advantages over the Logitech Squeezeboxes? 

My DAC has synched with my Duet without issue and sounds wonderful.  Is the AEX the same basic thing?

The only thing my DAC doesn't seem to want to synch stably with is my TV's cable box.  I'll play around and see what I can do as there are occasionally concerts I wouldn't mind listening to on the big rig, but I'm loving this kit so far.


Anyone else swap tubes yet?  I tried a couple fancy NOS in there and actually find myself preferring the stock...  Maybe I'm losing it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 2 Mar 2010, 11:45 pm
Same basic concept as a Duet, but it is cheaper and is also a wireless router, a print server if you need it to be and will let you hook your blu ray player for Blue Ray live and firmware downloads without the hassle of running Cat5 cable.  I am sorry to be frustrated, but it is annoying. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 3 Mar 2010, 12:04 am
I'm wondering if anyone has the older Airport Express 'G' version, and if so, have you tried it with the EE Minimax DAC?
 
These are available for $30 - $40 used.  Given that the AE is limited to 16bit/44.1 KHz, the 'G' bandwith should be sufficient for that.  I bought the newer 'N' versions simply because they were the "latest and greatest".
 
So far, the three DACs I know about having trouble with the AE are all ESS Sabre chip based.  Does anyone have a DAC with a different chip that is having problems with Airport Express' optical output?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: buzz on 3 Mar 2010, 01:46 am
I stumbled across this as I am having the same problem getting my AirportExpress to function with my EE Sabre DAC as well. (choppy audio playback) Could someone post a link to the fix please? Thank you.

Disabling the auto time update did NOT fix the dropout issues... Turning off all security encryption (from WPA2 security to none) is NOT a fix. Buffering the digital signal with a Genesis Digital Lens did not help. And routing digital through the Behringer DEQ 24/96 did not help.

That being said... I really don't like the AirportExpress. What are you guys using for digital output from your Apple equipment? I think we need something 'more worthy' of the Eastern Electric DAC 192khz ability.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 3 Mar 2010, 02:13 am
I never really had a problem with the AEX... Until now.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 3 Mar 2010, 02:14 am
I know I'm patiently awaiting the release of the Squeezebox Touch which is capable of doing the higher samplings and reportedly (from beta testers) has a much better digital out.

Till that comes out I'm using a Duet primarily and plugged in an HD DVD player tonight--I'll probably swap that for my PS3 though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 3 Mar 2010, 05:51 am
Photo taken by Levi of the Eastern Electric DAC from the Feb. Rave last Saturday..... :thumb:

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/NY%20Audio%20Rave%202010/02-Feb%20at%20Levi/_DSC1706.jpg)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 3 Mar 2010, 06:53 am
Some more info on the Airport Express N and the ESS Sabre DACs in the Peachtree Audio products:
 
From David Solomon of Signal Path/Peachtree Audio/Era Design:
"We have uncovered the problem w/AE (N) version... The Nova works fine w/ AE (G).  Apparently, the new AE, N has more jitter than the ESS DAC allows at its highest performance level so it takes about a quarter note for the DAC to kick in and sometimes even drops out during the song.

We have a free software mod that allows for more jitter into the 2nd set of digital inputs.  This will solve the problem, but the 2nd input will not sound quite as good as digital input 1 from both coax and toslink. Don't get me wrong, it will still sound very good, but if you have a unit w/less jitter, use input 1."
 
From 6 Moons (apparently quoting Peachtree Audio):
"We found that many devices have more jitter than we initially allowed as acceptable. This could cut off the first few milliseconds of a recording. On the Nova, we wrote a software upgrade so that digital input 2 (opt/coax) allowed more incoming jitter so the beginning of the song would not cut off. On the Decco 2 and iDecco, we instead put a switch on the back to accommodate such devices."

Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 3 Mar 2010, 04:29 pm
Bill,

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but right now, the DAC is largely a paperweight for me because it does not support the AEX.

Shawn
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 3 Mar 2010, 04:44 pm
I'm curious, would something like a Monarch DIP in between the AEX and EE resolve your issue?  I've gotta imagine using an external clock would bring the jitter down to a level the Sabre could work with.  That would probably result in a better sound than modifying the unit to accept more jitter as it sounds like the Nova's with that modification suffered SQ wise.

How are the AEX's as transports with other DACs in general?  Is jitter really that high?  If so I can't imagine they work out well...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 3 Mar 2010, 04:51 pm
Shawn,
 
It's unfortunate that the Airport Express N has a problem with the ESS Sabre DAC, but I see it as more of an Apple problem than an EE/ESS problem.
 
Yes, I know the AE-N works with most other DAC's optical inputs, but on the other hand, most other optical sources (so far) do work fine with the EE Minimax DAC.
 
Perhaps there is a solution, but keep in mind that Peachtree Audio's solution resulted in a slightly degraded sound.
 
If someone will verify that the AE-G works fine, I think acquiring one of those (either trading someone your N for their G, or selling the N and buying a G) might be the best solution for now.
 
I know that is a small hassle, and I'm sure that Alex, the engineers and Bill will look further into what could possibly be done, but if it is likely that the fix results in minor degradation and the AE-G will work, then that might still be the best way to go.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 3 Mar 2010, 05:14 pm
Bill,

I don't mean to sound overly negative, but right now, the DAC is largely a paperweight for me because it does not support the AEX.

Shawn


Hi Shawn,

  I just don't see in the near future a fix using the Apple Airport Ex-N. I know Alex and his engineers are looking into it but I'm highly doubtful they will find a cure for the high rate of jitter that the Apple EX-N seems to put out thru its optical.
 One of the great things about the EE DAC and incorporating the ESS9018 chip is its jitterless application.

 I will be more then happy to refund your purchase of the DAC.

 Kindest Regards,
 Bill O'Connell
 

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 3 Mar 2010, 05:19 pm
............................I will be more then happy to refund your purchase of the DAC.

 Kindest Regards,
 Bill O'Connell
 

What great customer service that is, Bill.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 3 Mar 2010, 08:38 pm
I am going to try a TOSlink to Coax adapter box first.  I want to keep the DAC, but I want it to work with the AEX as well.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Vulcan00 on 3 Mar 2010, 08:49 pm
I have a New Airport Extreme. So far I have been using the oppo BD 83 and Bd83SE as a source and comparing them to the DAC. I am now wondering if I too will have a problem.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 4 Mar 2010, 04:38 am
I just sent my AEX-G to someone in the mail last week. I'll see if someone at work has one.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 4 Mar 2010, 01:36 pm
I have the AEX-N, so I guess that is my issue too.  Any progress Bill? 

Shawn
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 4 Mar 2010, 03:59 pm
Hi Shawn,

  I just don't see in the near future a fix using the Apple Airport Ex-N. I know Alex and his engineers are looking into it but I'm highly doubtful they will find a cure for the high rate of jitter that the Apple EX-N seems to put out thru its optical. It will take more then 24 hours to try and figure out what the AAEX does.
 One of the great things about the EE DAC and incorporating the ESS9018 chip is its jitterless application.

 I will be more then happy to refund your purchase of the DAC.

 Kindest Regards,
 Bill O'Connell

PS; please look in your message box here at AC also
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 4 Mar 2010, 04:31 pm
I've seen those monarchy dips go as cheap as $100 used.  I'd probably be more inclined to try that route than the tosh to coax box you were contemplating. 

I imagine actually lowering the jitter to an acceptable degree would result in better sound quality.  If its a no go, I can't imagine you'd lose money reselling it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 4 Mar 2010, 04:45 pm
Since Bill has repeated himself (!) (Bill - when you find for some reason your reply is erroneously contained within the quote, like your previous post above, you can simply edit it so that the ending (/quote) tag is at the end of the quote and not at the end of your reply).
 
To repeat myself - If someone who has the EE Minimax DAC could test it with an Airport Express - G (A1084) and verify it works, we could possibly get beyond this problem.
 
I am purchasing one right now for $25 shipped.  Unfortunately I don't have the EE DAC, but I'm trying to solve my problem of distortion when using a Y-connector on the analog output.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Mar 2010, 05:22 am
I received my EE DAC today and I thought a had a problem with the USB input.  I had to toggle from 48KHZ to 44.kHZ and back to 48KHZ in my MacBook Pro's Audio Midi Setup seems to have solve the problem.  I this normal?  I have to do this process everytime I powerdown the EE DAC.  It is still on the break-in period to soon to judge it's character.  So far so good.

Some pictures that I took:
(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8562.jpg)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8569.jpg)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8570.jpg)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8586.jpg)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8578.jpg)

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8575.jpg)

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 5 Mar 2010, 05:44 am
Levi,

 Once you set your Macbook Pro to go thru the USB in the Midi Setup it should be good to go. Now if you use the optical out you will have to go to the Applications/Utilities/ Midi again and set the MAC up for the optical output, it's a pain in the butt to do if your trying to A/B the two as it takes about 30-45 seconds to change the configuration of the Macbook Pro unless your really quick.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Mar 2010, 05:47 am
Thanks Bill. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Mar 2010, 01:47 pm
Is it true that the OP amps can be replaced? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 5 Mar 2010, 02:28 pm
Yes, the Op Amps can be replaced.

I was talking to a person that deals with MACs and Airport Express generally.  I have a few things to play with this weekend.  The issue may be the way in which the newer AEX deals with sending the TOSlink signal generally and not really a jitter issue.  I will let you know what I find with my experimenting. 

Shawn
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 5 Mar 2010, 02:35 pm
Stuck at work and trying to figure out how wide the DAC is. From memory seems like maybe 11"

thanks
DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Mar 2010, 02:38 pm
Thanks Shawn.  I see four, but did not say BB on it.

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/IMG_8593.jpg)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 5 Mar 2010, 03:15 pm
From memory seems like maybe 11"
Correct.  It's also about 8" deep and 3" tall. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 5 Mar 2010, 09:10 pm
Photo taken by Levi of the Eastern Electric DAC from the Feb. Rave last Saturday..... :thumb:

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/NY%20Audio%20Rave%202010/02-Feb%20at%20Levi/_DSC1706.jpg)

What was the consensus?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 5 Mar 2010, 09:30 pm
What was the consensus?

Maybe you could go to the NY Audio RAVE thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77174.msg745840;topicseen#new) and see?  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 5 Mar 2010, 09:33 pm
I've been wondering how this DAC will pair with my Mini-Torri with 1v input sensitivity?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 6 Mar 2010, 02:54 pm
Question for all of you tube experts:  How is it the EE products only need one tube?   :scratch:  My other audio gear use one tube per channel.    Having only one tube cuts the cost of tube rolling in half, so I am not complaining, just curious
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 6 Mar 2010, 03:29 pm
The 12AU7 is a dual triode tube and can be shared between channels as a common cathode gain stage.
 
(Edit: Tube designation corrected)

Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 6 Mar 2010, 03:54 pm
Small point:  the DAC uses a 12AU7 not a 12AX7. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 6 Mar 2010, 04:58 pm
The 12AU7 is a dual triode tube and can be shared between channels as a common cathode gain stage.
 
(Edit: Tube designation corrected)

Steve

What are the design considerations here?  Any downsides, such as cross talk between channels? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 6 Mar 2010, 05:05 pm
I probably shouldn't have answered the first question, since it was posted to tube experts, which I'm not.
 
I do know that the Eastern Electric MiniMax Preamp also shares this tube between channels, and it has earned a reputation as a highly respected audiophile piece.
 
So I will fade into the background on this subject, and let real experts add their opinions.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 11 Mar 2010, 01:22 am
Optical to coax converter did not work.  So next up will be something else.  Either a G Airport Express or some other way.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 11 Mar 2010, 02:44 am
Does anyone know the tube output side's current rating?  The manual only has a 3V listing, no current figure.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bravophase on 11 Mar 2010, 03:07 am
Hi Shek,

The 3V output is the audio signal swing, you do not concern its current.

Cheers !

Alex

Does anyone know the tube output side's current rating?  The manual only has a 3V listing, no current figure.  :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 11 Mar 2010, 07:13 pm
I should have a wireless G airport express shortly.  That will be my next test to see if that resolves the issue I have with the DAC.  I will let you all know my results. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 12 Mar 2010, 01:36 pm
A few questions.

I encountered an issue with a Brimar tube, the tube has a plastic base at the bottom of the tube with a diameter slightly larger than the housing around the receptical of the dac.  Can the housing be removed?

Also what tool do I need to remove the top, I thought I had any drive bit I would ever need?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: aloft on 12 Mar 2010, 08:11 pm
I should have a wireless G airport express shortly.  That will be my next test to see if that resolves the issue I have with the DAC.  I will let you all know my results.

Thanks for trying. Should the AE "G" work, it would definitely be the most economical wireless streaming solution out there.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 16 Mar 2010, 02:03 am
The wireless G AEX has been playing for an hour without a dropout.  How odd.  I am not sure I understand it really.  I guess it is the Wireless N AEX.  I am not sure what else to say beyond I think that working on this by EE would be great because not so many people have access to an AEX G.  It would be a real detriment to not having it work with the AEX available now.  That being said, I see that this is an Apple issue.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 16 Mar 2010, 02:32 pm
Awesome news.  Did you lose out on anything going to G over N though? Is streaming still seamless?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 18 Mar 2010, 01:56 pm
A few questions.

I encountered an issue with a Brimar tube, the tube has a plastic base at the bottom of the tube with a diameter slightly larger than the housing around the receptical of the dac.  Can the housing be removed?


What's this Brimar tube all about; does it have a socket adapter to make it compatible to the 12AU7 pinout? Must be big if id doesn't even fit in the DAC....

DC
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 18 Mar 2010, 02:17 pm
I think we covered the tubes extensively at NYAR thread.  Has anyone played around with OPAmps?  If implemented properly, they can be great.  Just wondering.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 18 Mar 2010, 02:21 pm
I think we covered the tubes extensively at NYAR thread.  Has anyone played around with OPAmps?  If implemented properly, they can be great.  Just wondering.

Not yet, but I did just swap some in my MAverick D1. I'll have to check my notes what I swapped in though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 18 Mar 2010, 02:47 pm
Dear "Doctor"

You might want to post your prescription for Maverick DAC in this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78467.msg751958;topicseen#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78467.msg751958;topicseen#new)

Cheers
Mariusz :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 20 Mar 2010, 11:28 pm
Does anyone have any tube recommendations for this DAC yet?  I tried a couple but ended up preferring stock, but I wonder if anything exceptional has been discovered.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 20 Mar 2010, 11:34 pm
Does anyone have any tube recommendations for this DAC yet?  I tried a couple but ended up preferring stock, but I wonder if anything exceptional has been discovered.

Have you tried any Amperex tubes? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 21 Mar 2010, 03:45 am
Well, I heard the Maveric DAC today and that sounded good.  However, when we switched to the EE Dac, the soundstage opened up.  The EE Dac sounding more palpable and natural.  Coming in from the cold, I preferred the sound of the EE Dac much better.  Even though the Maverick DAC is cheap, there is no way I am switching.  That's just me. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 21 Mar 2010, 04:58 am
Thanks for your comparison Levi.
I am sure you are right.
Keep in mind that it might need more time to break in.
Perhaps better glass and op amp upgrade which looks pretty easy as far as skills go. (do not forget the X4 price difference)

And lastly - nobody claims Maveric's superiority. Rave impressions are solely based on value vs performance.

Come on Levi, it is $200 DAC/pre ...... what did you expect?

Is it a bargain? IMO yes!

Cheers
Mariusz :thumb: 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 21 Mar 2010, 11:07 am
Well, I heard the Maveric DAC today and that sounded good.  However, when we switched to the EE Dac, the soundstage opened up.  The EE Dac sounding more palpable and natural.  Coming in from the cold, I preferred the sound of the EE Dac much better.  Even though the Maverick DAC is cheap, there is no way I am switching.  That's just me.

May be the Maverick hasn't found the right tube yet?  Does the M. have that many tube options like the 12AU7? 

I've been rolling them tubes the past week, thanks to Paul M.  The EE's soundstage left to right, front to back, is just amazing, regardless which 12AU7 variant I put in there.  So, I concluded that it's the basic personality of the Sabre-based DAC.  I first put in a couple from my closet, JAN Sylvania, RCA 5814, and then Amperex 7316.  Of course, I started with the stock Shuguang.  The Shuguang is so-so, not much to write home about.  The RCA 5814 is bland.  With the JAN Sylvania I began to have improvements overall.  The EE became more musical and enjoyable.  The Amperex improved a lot.  And, I only use the tube output side.  I have had enough experience with opamps I thought.  Tube remains my preferred channel.

Then, I got a few from Paul (again, thanks Paul).  With each 12AU7 I put in, in this order: Tungsol, Mullard (GE), GE 5814 3 Mica BP, the mids got better (fuller, rounder, however you call it).  I emphasize the mids since them notes are all the most important.  The bass department is firm and focused also.  The tops also are pretty good with those tubes.

Then, I got the CV4003.   Wow, Levi, you're right again.  It's the crowning king, so far.  I usually use a personal favorite recording to judge the mids, Maria Joao Pires's Chopin Piano Concerto #2 (DG).  Her piano sounded sooooo good with my previous Shek DAC (NOS).  Believe it or not, even the CV4003 is still a notch less than the NOS Shek, based on 1543 I think.  The NOS just has yet a little more shine in the piano sound (harmonic richenss?).  Well..... can't have everything.  The CV4003 is very good, my holy grail so far.  Of course, Bill (O'Connell) has recommended the ultimate tube.  But..... $$$ is a consideration (Bill's recommendation would easily run $125). 

For the money, the EE is KING!  Give credit to Alex, Bill, and the Sabre chip!  Also, with the CV4003, the bass is very focused, and the tops are smoother also (than those quoted above).  The Maverick may hold its ground.  That's fine and dandy. :thumb:

Disclaimer:  This is just one person's experience/perception and opinion.  Don't mean to offend anyone. :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nature boy on 21 Mar 2010, 11:29 am
Interesting, I use a cyro'd Mullard CV4003 in my EE Minimax preamp and prefer the sound to all other 12AU7 tubes I've tried.  Sounds like Bill and Alex have another winner with the EE DAC.

NB
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 21 Mar 2010, 11:46 am
May be the Maverick hasn't found the right tube yet?  Does the M. have that many tube options like the 12AU7? 

I've been rolling them tubes the past week, thanks to Paul M.  The EE's soundstage left to right, front to back, is just amazing, regardless which 12AU7 variant I put in there.  So, I concluded that it's the basic personality of the Sabre-based DAC.  I first put in a couple from my closet, JAN Sylvania, RCA 5814, and then Amperex 7316.  Of course, I started with the stock Shuguang.  The Shuguang is so-so, not much to write home about.  The RCA 5814 is bland.  With the JAN Sylvania I began to have improvements overall.  The EE became more musical and enjoyable.  The Amperex improved a lot.  And, I only use the tube output side.  I have had enough experience with opamps I thought.  Tube remains my preferred channel.

Then, I got a few from Paul (again, thanks Paul).  With each 12AU7 I put in, in this order: Tungsol, Mullard (GE), GE 5814 3 Mica BP, the mids got better (fuller, rounder, however you call it).  I emphasize the mids since them notes are all the most important.  The bass department is firm and focused also.  The tops also are pretty good with those tubes.

Then, I got the CV4003.   Wow, Levi, you're right again.  It's the crowning king, so far.  I usually use a personal favorite recording to judge the mids, Maria Joao Pires's Chopin Piano Concerto #2 (DG).  Her piano sounded sooooo good with my previous Shek DAC (NOS).  Believe it or not, even the CV4003 is still a notch less than the NOS Shek, based on 1543 I think.  The NOS just has yet a little more shine in the piano sound (harmonic richenss?).  Well..... can't have everything.  The CV4003 is very good, my holy grail so far.  Of course, Bill (O'Connell) has recommended the ultimate tube.  But..... $$$ is a consideration (Bill's recommendation would easily run $125). 

For the money, the EE is KING!  Give credit to Alex, Bill, and the Sabre chip!  Also, with the CV4003, the bass is very focused, and the tops are smoother also (than those quoted above).  The Maverick may hold its ground.  That's fine and dandy. :thumb:

Disclaimer:  This is just one person's experience/perception and opinion.  Don't mean to offend anyone. :thumb:


Don't listen to Levi.  :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: The unit had the stock tube in it . It sounds totally different when you tube roll. The tubes are not part of the tour. I gave Paul the WE396a tube and you'll hear the difference when you go to his place WED.


DISCLAIMER:(I like that) Not thread jacking and not debating. We just did not listen to these dacs under controlled enviroments,and no tube rolling. 5 minutes at tops for each dac.Too much swapping and partying and too many people
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 21 Mar 2010, 12:04 pm

...................I gave Paul the WE396a tube and you'll hear the difference when you go to his place WED.


Not sure will be at Paul's Wed.  Think he said it'll be during the day.  May be he'll still be around later in the afternoon, if I should drop by say by 6 p.m.....?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 21 Mar 2010, 12:14 pm
Not sure will be at Paul's Wed.  Think he said it'll be during the day.  May be he'll still be around later in the afternoon, if I should drop by say by 6 p.m.....?

Check with him, I will not be there.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 21 Mar 2010, 02:38 pm
I agree about the soundstage, it’s one of the highlights of this Dac. It also handles 24/96 24/192 music very well.  I ordered a Mullard CV4003 tube on everyone’s recommendations.

Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 21 Mar 2010, 04:28 pm
Has anyone tried an E80CC tube?  Any thoughts on compatibility of E80CC tubes with the EE DAC? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 21 Mar 2010, 04:44 pm
Has anyone tried an E80CC tube?  Any thoughts on compatibility of E80CC tubes with the EE DAC?

 Hi John,

 I've tried just the pinched waist D getter E80CC, this tube is very energetic, if you want stop by and I'll loan it out to you and you can decide for yourself in your system to see if it fits your taste.You have to take off the tube shield as this tube is probably twice the length of a 12au7 so you will not be able to put back on the tube shield when using the E80CC.

 Call me just to make sure I haven't run to the office or Carolyn hasn't found something for me to do :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 21 Mar 2010, 05:24 pm
Bill
I am interested in the DAC but don't see it on your company website????? Am I looking in the wrong spot?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 21 Mar 2010, 05:27 pm
Bill
I am interested in the DAC but don't see it on your company website????? Am I looking in the wrong spot?

http://www.morningstaraudio.com/ (http://www.morningstaraudio.com/) The website link is directly under Bill's username, the 2nd icon from the left of the 4 links there.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 21 Mar 2010, 05:32 pm
Robin
thanks. That would be the products tab but I still don't see a DAC. am I being dense?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 21 Mar 2010, 05:45 pm
Robin
thanks. That would be the products tab but I still don't see a DAC. am I being dense?

No Dave, it's all me.  :duh:  Guess the Dac is a special order at this point and Bill hasn't listed it. Here's (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1271780789&/Eastern-Electric-MiniMax-Tube-) Bill's A'gon ad of the Dac, guess that's all there is.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 21 Mar 2010, 06:02 pm
Robin
no worries and thanks for the link. By the way I am a big Red Sox fan :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 21 Mar 2010, 06:05 pm
Hi David,

 I just returned from vacation so I haven't contacted my website guy yet to put the DAC on the website as of yet.
I will shoot him an email today and see if he can do it quickly.
 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 22 Mar 2010, 04:36 pm

Don't listen to Levi.  :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: :wine: ...

....

Hey!
 
       :lol:  Man! How many bottles he had there? 6? :lol:  Anyway, I stopped by Levi's last Friday and listened for a while with EE DAC with those Mc amps. It sounded good. Seems to be very detailed but still sounded full in mid and bottom. Strangely enough I preferred the sound using the CD player as a transport better than from computer via USB.  But can't say for sure since I haven't heard it in my own system or was with my own music :dunno:

....
Then, I got the CV4003.   Wow, Levi, you're right again.  It's the crowning king, so far.  I usually use a personal favorite recording to judge the mids, Maria Joao Pires's Chopin Piano Concerto #2 (DG).  Her piano sounded sooooo good with my previous Shek DAC (NOS).  Believe it or not, even the CV4003 is still a notch less than the NOS Shek, based on 1543 I think.  The NOS just has yet a little more shine in the piano sound (harmonic richenss?).  Well..... can't have everything.  ....

    The Mullard 4003 is a very nice tube. I actually use a pair in my Pre output section. I used a  pair for 10 years before I got a new pair. This  tube is all about the mid. Luscious and full mid. The top is smooth and can sound rolled off to some. The bass is full but a bit loose. A great tube.

    Yes, Shek there is something special about NOS DAC. Personally when is come to 16bit CD playback I do prefer NOS. Most 24/96+ upsampling DAC playing back CD sound unease to me specially in the high. Don't know why.  :scratch:

....

And lastly - nobody claims Maveric's superiority. Rave impressions are solely based on value vs performance.

...
Cheers
Mariusz :thumb: 

        Not quite. Well, at least to me. The Rave impression is solely base on performance only first and foremost. The price vs. performance ratio is left up to each individual Raver to decide whether it is worth the asking price for his/herself. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 22 Mar 2010, 05:03 pm
I agree to disagree on the price factor.

If your DIY DAC was re-badged and dressed up then added a $500 mark up,
you wouldn't call it a bargain and its performance vs value would quickly diminish making it a "less atractive" then original version.
At least that is my point of view. 

Personally, I do not care much for product or how good it is, knowing that I can't afford it.

I do agree with you tho in regards to NOS DACs and there characteristics.
But in my opinion, it has more to do with system synergy and personal preferences then anything else.

 


Cheers
Mariusz
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 22 Mar 2010, 05:03 pm
Hey!
 
..................there is something special about NOS DAC. Personally when is come to 16bit CD playback I do prefer NOS. Most 24/96+ upsampling DAC playing back CD sound unease to me specially in the high. Don't know why.  :scratch:


Buddy :thumb:

Somehow the Shek DAC didn't sound well at your place that time.  I loved it, but had to Mundorf it (hoping to improve on the 2 ends.....), and lost the luscious mids (that was all its strength!?!?!).... So I had to chuck it.....  Now, the EE DAC really foots the bill well.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Mar 2010, 05:18 pm
Bingo!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/woot.gif)

Buddy, I think you hit the nail on the head.  In the March NYAR meeting at Mike Mattera, the only DAC that competes with BobM's Ayre modified CD Player is the EE DAC.

Regardless of the price, 90% love the sound of the EE DAC.   The thread is at AN.  The odds are pro EE.

Finally, If I am broke and cannot afford a good DAC, I will not waste my only $200 cash in my pocket.   What I would do is keep the money in my savings instead.  There are lots of good inexpensive DIY DACs out there for $169.  However, EE DAC is something to look into.

--Levi

Hey!
 
       :lol:  Man! How many bottles he had there? 6? :lol:  Anyway, I stopped by Levi's last Friday and listened for a while with EE DAC with those Mc amps. It sounded good. Seems to be very detailed but still sounded full in mid and bottom. Strangely enough I preferred the sound using the CD player as a transport better than from computer via USB.  But can't say for sure since I haven't heard it in my own system or was with my own music :dunno:

    The Mullard 4003 is a very nice tube. I actually use a pair in my Pre output section. I used a  pair for 10 years before I got a new pair. This  tube is all about the mid. Luscious and full mid. The top is smooth and can sound rolled off to some. The bass is full but a bit loose. A great tube.

    Yes, Shek there is something special about NOS DAC. Personally when is come to 16bit CD playback I do prefer NOS. Most 24/96+ upsampling DAC playing back CD sound unease to me specially in the high. Don't know why.  :scratch:

        Not quite. Well, at least to me. The Rave impression is solely base on performance only first and foremost. The price vs. performance ratio is left up to each individual Raver to decide whether it is worth the asking price for his/herself. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 22 Mar 2010, 05:41 pm
 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 22 Mar 2010, 05:44 pm
Bingo!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/woot.gif)

Buddy, I think you hit the nail on the head.  In the March NYAR meeting at Mike Mattera, the only DAC that competes with BobM's Ayre modified CD Player is the EE DAC.

Regardless of the price, 90% love the sound of the EE DAC.   The thread is at AN.  The odds are pro EE.

Finally, If I am broke and cannot afford a good DAC, I will not waste my only $200 cash in my pocket.   What I would do is keep the money in my savings instead.  There are lots of good inexpensive DIY DACs out there for $169.  However, EE DAC is something to look into.

--Levi

Gee Levi, I could have sworn I heard a few guys actually preferred the Van Alstine Insight+ solid state Dac over the EE Dac. At least 1 poster mentioned this over at Neversa.  ;)
 
Myself, I preferred the fullness of the EE Dac over the overall SS clarity that the Insight+ seems to have over tube Dacs. Then again I did leave my Mhdt Havana tube Dac at home so,,,,,,,,  :eyebrows:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 22 Mar 2010, 05:53 pm
Bingo!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/woot.gif)

Buddy, I think you hit the nail on the head.  In the March NYAR meeting at Mike Mattera, the only DAC that competes with BobM's Ayre modified CD Player is the EE DAC.

Regardless of the price, 90% love the sound of the EE DAC.   The thread is at AN.  The odds are pro EE.

Finally, If I am broke and cannot afford a good DAC, I will not waste my only $200 cash in my pocket.   What I would do is keep the money in my savings instead.  There are lots of good inexpensive DIY DACs out there for $169.  However, EE DAC is something to look into.

--Levi

Forget it Levi.  Buddy is a true dirt-cheap DIY'er, that you and I know  :drool:.  He'll go for a DAC only if it's $6.9; all right, $69, NOT $169.  Did you make a typo error?  :lol:  Right Buddy?  :icon_lol: 

All kidding aside.  There are many, many inexpensive DIY Kits out there (look in eBay).  They all say theirs is the best.  Who would know?  Not until you've actually finished it, and put it on the bench......  So, by the time you sorted out with them, modded them......, it might have run you slightly more than that $69. :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Mar 2010, 06:03 pm
:lol: That is true Shek.  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 22 Mar 2010, 06:06 pm
Levi
when I say "rave reviews", my reference is - many positive reviews here and other forums/web. 

P.S
DIY kits are awesome but who told you that the asking price of admition reflects the TOTAL cost of the project?

Trust me, it is far more then that.......or as far as you want to take it.

.............and that 90% voting in favor might be a bit off.......at least that is what I am hearing.  :lol:

Mariusz  :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 22 Mar 2010, 06:16 pm

Gee Levi, I could have sworn I heard a few guys actually preferred the Van Alstine Insight+ solid state Dac over the EE Dac. At least 1 poster mentioned this over at Neversa.  ;)
 
Myself, I preferred the fullness of the EE Dac over the overall SS clarity that the Insight+ seems to have over tube Dacs. Then again I did leave my Mhdt Havana tube Dac at home so,,,,,,,,  :eyebrows:
 
Cheers,
Robin

Robin,

We all know, some people like SS, some love tubes..... Who's right? who's wrong?  My rationale - I don't know what others hear and not hear, since I can't crawl into their ears......  So, we all do our own thing.  Whatever makes one tick, so be it!!!!!!  :lol:

When are you coming to one of our events?  Afraid of messed up in a shoot-out?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Mar 2010, 06:22 pm
Mariusz, sorry to blow your bubble.  A couple of friends at Head-fi are already ahead of you.  How's $30 DAC running?  Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/poll-best-cheap-dac-288043/

As I stated, I will not waste my $200 on a cheap dac and buy $60-80 tube to make it sound good.  :lol:

Levi, now exits the building.   :beer:

, it is far more then that.......or as far as you want to take it.

.............and that 90% voting in favor might be a bit off.......at least that is what I am hearing.  :lol:

Mariusz  :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 22 Mar 2010, 06:27 pm
I agree to disagree on the price factor.

If your DIY DAC was re-badged and dressed up then added a $500 mark up,
you wouldn't call it a bargain and its performance vs value would quickly diminish making it a "less atractive" then original version.
At least that is my point of view. 

Personally, I do not care much for product or how good it is, knowing that I can't afford it.

I do agree with you tho in regards to NOS DACs and there characteristics.
But in my opinion, it has more to do with system synergy and personal preferences then anything else.

 


Cheers
Mariusz

Hey!

    Mariusz, we are talking about a "finished product" here. DIY is another story... well unless we are comparing DIY kits. :D

    BTW... yes, you should care about stuffs that you can't afford, or at least keep open minded about them. Have you heard of "trickling down technology?" What in expensive stuffs today will trickling down to a more affordable stuffs in time. Pretty short time these days. :D With that I wouldn't mind checking more expensive stuff just to see what's new and see what's possible in the future. :D

 
Forget it Levi.  Buddy is a true dirt-cheap DIY'er, that you and I know  :drool:.  He'll go for a DAC only if it's $6.9; all right, $69, NOT $169.  Did you make a typo error?  :lol:  Right Buddy?  :icon_lol: 

All kidding aside.  There are many, many inexpensive DIY Kits out there (look in eBay).  They all say theirs is the best.  Who would know?  Not until you've actually finished it, and put it on the bench......  So, by the time you sorted out with them, modded them......, it might have run you slightly more than that $69. :scratch:

    Well, Shek dirt-cheap in price but BIG in sound for me  :eyebrows:

    Anyway, just to make it clear I'm not here to support either EE DAC or Maverick DAC. It just happened that I've heard the EE DAC at Levi's and it sounded fine... and didn't drive me away like some stuffs I've heard that is all. :D

     OK, now back to listen to my dirt-cheap, cheapo DIY NOS DAC   :green: Well, have fun guys... just don't forget to enjoy the music though :wink:

   

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 22 Mar 2010, 06:42 pm
Robin,

We all know, some people like SS, some love tubes..... Who's right? who's wrong?  My rationale - I don't know what others hear and not hear, since I can't crawl into their ears......  So, we all do our own thing.  Whatever makes one tick, so be it!!!!!!  :lol:

When are you coming to one of our events?  Afraid of messed up in a shoot-out?

I was there, where the hell were you Shek???  :lol:
 
Yep, SS & tube will always be a personal preference as it should be. Just saying there were 2 favorites last saturday, the EE Dac and the Van Alstine Insight+ Dac. I heard nothing said about all the others except time to change Dacs!  :D
 
As for BobM's Ayre SS CDP, as clean as it was, it didn't penetrate my heart like Mike's tube CDP did. (I forget the name) Mike's tube CDP made me want to cry, it was so sweet sounding. But then again, there were others that preferred Bob's ultraclean Ayre. I think I'm sliding into the tube camp.  :oops:   :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 22 Mar 2010, 06:52 pm
 :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 22 Mar 2010, 07:57 pm
But EE is also a digital pre-amp, not something that you can easily DIY.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Mar 2010, 08:05 pm
I prefer tone over clarity but if I want it crystalline clean I would just throw in a Siemens silver plate.The Siemens is a marvelous tube that is a revelation to enjoy in the EE DAC, it still has some meat on its bone and does everything exceptionally but has clarity as its flavour.

 If the NY rave folks would like to hear,I'd be more then willing to send a silverplate to Levi or Shek to bring to the next rave.
 Let me know,
 Bill

 PS: For the record; the EE MiniMax DAC isn't a rebadged DAC of any sort!
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Mar 2010, 08:07 pm
But EE is also a digital pre-amp, not something that you can easily DIY.

 I tried the MiniMax DAC straight into my EL156 monoblocks yesterday and was surprised at just how good it was all by its lonesome. Heck ,I even tried the SS output and that was excellent also, Go figure :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mcullinan on 22 Mar 2010, 08:08 pm
I enjoyed the EE DAC.. though Levi had a stanky tube in there. It was a GIANT KILLER!
Levi scared me when he said that.
M
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 22 Mar 2010, 08:21 pm
............................It just happened that I've heard the EE DAC at Levi's and it sounded fine... and didn't drive me away like some stuffs I've heard that is all. :D

     OK, now back to listen to my dirt-cheap, cheapo DIY NOS DAC   :green: Well, have fun guys... just don't forget to enjoy the music though :wink:

   

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Well, Buddy, what you heard at Levi's was the EE DAC that had only about 30-40 hours.  I cooked it for about 2 days, after Bill (O'Connell) frantically zipped it to be that very Tuesday, and I got it Friday, then brought it over to Levi's.  That was it.  It also only had the stock Shuguang 12AU7.  As I said, that tube is just OK.  Now, with a CV4003, or even an Amperex, it should be much better.  As I said also, it always maintains the big soundstage, the only thing is which tube to put in there to give it the "body", IMHO.  Last Sat's Levi's version probably was a much more broken-in unit.  I'm sure it's now much more musical and warmer.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 22 Mar 2010, 08:25 pm
I enjoyed the EE DAC.. though Levi had a stanky tube in there. It was a GIANT KILLER!
Levi scared me when he said that.
M

Yeah, Levi had me looking over my shoulder also with his giant killing comments.  :duh:   :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mcullinan on 22 Mar 2010, 08:26 pm
He had an evil stare and kept muttering G-G-Giant Keeeler! and I think one of his eyeballs was hanging out farther than the other. A little unsettling! ;)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 22 Mar 2010, 09:26 pm
Heck ,I even tried the SS output and that was excellent also, Go figure :lol:

The SS is no slouch.  In fact, one of the more modern tubes I have tried (Cifte 12AU7LC) sounded nearly identical to the SS mode.  You really have to get an excellent NOS tube to better the SS output.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 22 Mar 2010, 10:00 pm
If the NY rave folks would like to hear,I'd be more then willing to send a silverplate to Levi or Shek to bring to the next rave.
 Let me know,
 Bill

If you also have a Siemens 5814A early long plate, do let the good folks borrow that, too.  I reckon many would prefer that even over the Siemens silverplastes  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 22 Mar 2010, 10:42 pm
Bingo!  (http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/woot.gif)

Buddy, I think you hit the nail on the head.  In the March NYAR meeting at Mike Mattera, the only DAC that competes with BobM's Ayre modified CD Player is the EE DAC.

Regardless of the price, 90% love the sound of the EE DAC.   The thread is at AN.  The odds are pro EE.

Finally, If I am broke and cannot afford a good DAC, I will not waste my only $200 cash in my pocket.   What I would do is keep the money in my savings instead.  There are lots of good inexpensive DIY DACs out there for $169.  However, EE DAC is something to look into.

--Levi



Now I have to chime in since levi has become a thread crapper. if I spend 80.00 on a tube for a 200.00 dac then I am still  500.00 ahead of you. Not bad for someone who is just using it to stream from a computer or SB. I at least stated what I am using the dac for.You my friend have not. So lets guess you spent 800.00 on a DAC for let us see.... Oh I know ,that 6000.00
CD player you have there. Oh gee what will a 800.00 dollar dac do for a 6000.00 CD player.
 I guess may be your cd palyer is CRAP. Levi you have said the PS Audio was the best , then you went and said a MODIFIED Music Hall was the best. Now this. I am sure it is great but in no way am I going to spend 800.00 to stream. Testing the waters before i jump into computer audio in the future for which in that case I would have to spend close to what Satfrat has spent for computer audio. And you do not see me hooking my DAC up to my 2000.00 CD Player. So Levi stop blowing the smoke .

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 22 Mar 2010, 10:49 pm
Guys - Please don't litter this thread with personal debates that don't relate to the the EE DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 22 Mar 2010, 11:04 pm

Now I have to chime in since levi has become a thread crapper. if I spend 80.00 on a tube for a 200.00 dac then I am still  500.00 ahead of you. Not bad for someone who is just using it to stream from a computer or SB. I at least stated what I am using the dac for.You my friend have not. So lets guess you spent 800.00 on a DAC for let us see.... Oh I know ,that 6000.00
CD player you have there. Oh gee what will a 800.00 dollar dac do for a 6000.00 CD player.
 I guess may be your cd palyer is CRAP. Levi you have said the PS Audio was the best , then you went and said a MODIFIED Music Hall was the best. Now this. I am sure it is great but in no way am I going to spend 800.00 to stream. Testing the waters before i jump into computer audio in the future for which in that case I would have to spend close to what Satfrat has spent for computer audio. And you do not see me hooking my DAC up to my 2000.00 CD Player. So Levi stop blowing the smoke .

$2000 for a CDP???  :scratch:  Guess that's one way to make the Eastern Electric Dac look like the deal of the century Evan.  :notworthy:  As always, let your ears judge which you prefer, a CDP or PC audio audio source. I made mine and have no problems standing behind it.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 22 Mar 2010, 11:06 pm
Guys - Please don't litter this thread with personal debates that don't relate to the the EE DAC.

That's what I said earlier
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 23 Mar 2010, 12:12 am
Quote
 PS: For the record; the EE MiniMax DAC isn't a rebadged DAC of any sort!

Bill
I wasn't insinuating anything by it or directing it towards people behind EE DAC. (I apologize if it was recieved that way)
Surely, EE DAC must represent great value and above average performance.  What I said was in reference to Buddy's inexpensive DIY DAC.
The only reason I end up in this muddy situation must be because of some surprising (on the other hand, I should've known better) comments which caught me off gard.

Buddy

re-read my posts. 
I did not make the references to DIY kits....... Levi did.
You might want to ask Levi for clarification?
 Besides, I underline my point of view and I do not feel that I have to explain myslf ...... now do I?

Levi,
 
Never in my posts I compared DAC "A" to DAC "B & C".
Never did badmouth or said anything negative about EE DAC.
I just point out some flip/flapping and feverish behaviour.
Nothing better then start the year with new reference........enjoy it while it lasts.

Cheers
Mariusz

 


 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 23 Mar 2010, 12:30 am
Right on Mariusz.

Mariusz I will talk to you later.I just got a deal on a $10,000.00 Macintosh system for my Toyota ,only problem is the wires were cut when it was pulled from a Honda.

 :scratch:  :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: etcarroll on 23 Mar 2010, 12:48 am
One  'guy' may have been me.

I found the VA and EE the best units. I think I said the VA had the best overall presentation. By that it did the most things right.

But the EE would be what I'd buy, as it did a few things 'head and shoulders' above all other DACS. Granted, it was one Jazz saxophone track over and over.

And with a different tube, who knows.

Meanwhile, I attended the RAVE to hear the M1 for use in my office, playing iTunes and CDs from my computer, and I think it would be excellant at that, as Evan points out.

So to re-iterate;

EE for my main 2-channel system, but maybe a different bulb,
M1 for computer use,
and if a box with a VA DAC fell off a truck in front of me, I'd scoop it up and run like a thief in the night.


Gee Levi, I could have sworn I heard a few guys actually preferred the Van Alstine Insight+ solid state Dac over the EE Dac. At least 1 poster mentioned this over at Neversa.  ;)
 
Myself, I preferred the fullness of the EE Dac over the overall SS clarity that the Insight+ seems to have over tube Dacs. Then again I did leave my Mhdt Havana tube Dac at home so,,,,,,,,  :eyebrows:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 23 Mar 2010, 02:58 am

Now I have to chime in since levi has become a thread crapper. if I spend 80.00 on a tube for a 200.00 dac then I am still  500.00 ahead of you. Not bad for someone who is just using it to stream from a computer or SB. I at least stated what I am using the dac for.You my friend have not. So lets guess you spent 800.00 on a DAC for let us see.... Oh I know ,that 6000.00
CD player you have there. Oh gee what will a 800.00 dollar dac do for a 6000.00 CD player.
 I guess may be your cd palyer is CRAP. Levi you have said the PS Audio was the best , then you went and said a MODIFIED Music Hall was the best. Now this. I am sure it is great but in no way am I going to spend 800.00 to stream. Testing the waters before i jump into computer audio in the future for which in that case I would have to spend close to what Satfrat has spent for computer audio. And you do not see me hooking my DAC up to my 2000.00 CD Player. So Levi stop blowing the smoke .

Come on, guys, it's easy to misinterpret something written because we are not in front of the guy when he writes, etc.  You know Levi as a nice guy (otherwise he wouldn't have let us into his raves  :green:).  I don't think what he wrote there was what he intended, literally.  It was just him being humorous :D :inlove:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 23 Mar 2010, 04:09 am
...

Buddy

re-read my posts. 
I did not make the references to DIY kits....... Levi did.
You might want to ask Levi for clarification?
 Besides, I underline my point of view and I do not feel that I have to explain myslf ...... now do I?

...
Cheers
Mariusz

Hey!

    I think you are the one that have to read your own post. You were the one that bought up my DIY DAC re-badged theory as an example in this thread of which have nothing to do to this thread.

    I only responded to the fact of what you said about the "Rave impression" thing of which I don't have the same view as you and I'm sure most other Ravers feel the same way when we comparing something. Of course you did flip-flop it and turn it in to rave reviews here and other forums.

     BTW... I'm not taking anybody's side here. Those NYAR Ravers some of whom know me for a few years now know that I tell it like is it. It just happened that I've heard the EE, but not in my system and it sounded fine.

     Anyway, I'm out ain't got no time for this.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Mariusz on 23 Mar 2010, 04:27 am
Neither do I.
 :evil:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rajacat on 23 Mar 2010, 05:18 am
It would be interesting to hear how AVA's new Vision DAC would fit into the mix. Production of the Insight DAC is now history.

-Roy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 23 Mar 2010, 09:37 am
It would be interesting to hear how AVA's new Vision DAC would fit into the mix. Production of the Insight DAC is now history.

-Roy

Interesting indeed.  None in our (NY Rave) group seems to have a Vision DAC.  I was tempted when I was looking, since they have a 30-day policy.  But, I got positive comments from a couple of friends about the Sabre chip, so I took the chance with the EE.  The Vision DAC was designed around newer Wolfson chips I think? :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 23 Mar 2010, 06:29 pm
That 4003 tube described in this thread sounds right up my alley.  Is it the Mullard or Brimar variant you guys are referring to?  Any good online sources for them?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 23 Mar 2010, 09:16 pm
That 4003 tube described in this thread sounds right up my alley.  Is it the Mullard or Brimar variant you guys are referring to?  Any good online sources for them?

Mullard.  Good source is Upscale Audio, since they screen the tubes well I think.  So far, their prices are competitive IMO.  There are other tube merchants also, just Google it, and they'll show up.  Some command much more $$$.  Even try eBay, but there the quality may not compare with Upscale, tho you may find a bargain (with unknown results being possible).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 25 Mar 2010, 01:51 pm
Thanks, I ordered up a Mullard 4003 platinum grade from them.  Out of curiosity, is there any reason to go with the Platinum over Driver grade which specifically cites itself as being suitable for DACs?

Either way, I'm looking forward to it.  My focus has been on my analog rig more so than digital lately, but I had the opportunity to fire this up again last night and its always a re-revelation at just how competent this DAC is.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: woodsyi on 1 Apr 2010, 01:00 pm
Got mine yesterday.  I didn't splurge for the air freight shipment.  I have not had much time to do anything but I am looking forward to getting it fired up.  I have to go through my tubes to see what I got that would work with it. 

I am curious how this will stack up against my Northstar/Pacecar.  The jitter reducing circuitry of the Sabre chip versus the asynch reclocker.  It will be fun. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 1 Apr 2010, 01:54 pm
Very much looking forward to your comparision to the NorthStar
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nature boy on 1 Apr 2010, 02:59 pm
Me too!!!

NB

Very much looking forward to your comparision to the NorthStar
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 2 Apr 2010, 01:04 am
Maybe I'm losing my hearing, but I've left the 4003s cooking since Tuesday evening and they just aren't doing it for me.  From what I'm hearing, the midrange is a lot more solid but also a little harsh.  It gets a little silibant at times and the frequency extremes aren't handled as well as stock.

I think the Siemens Bill recommends for clarity may be more up my alley.  I'll give it another day or two to cook before ordering anything else up though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rpf on 2 Apr 2010, 01:38 am
Maybe I'm losing my hearing, but I've left the 4003s cooking since Tuesday evening and they just aren't doing it for me.  From what I'm hearing, the midrange is a lot more solid but also a little harsh.  It gets a little silibant at times and the frequency extremes aren't handled as well as stock.

I think the Siemens Bill recommends for clarity may be more up my alley.  I'll give it another day or two to cook before ordering anything else up though.

On all the time with a signal running through them?  I'd give them at least 60-70 hours to burn in.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 2 Apr 2010, 01:51 am
I'm presently demo'ing an EE Dac thanks to the generosity of Bill@LakeGeorge. I've also got Mullard and a couple Siemens tubes to roll. I am using the EE as a Dac with an Empirical Off Ramp 3 w/Ultraclock & Paul Hynes SR3-12 power supply and a Locus design Nucleus USB cable.
 
Now I've been doing comparisons between the Off-Ramp 3 and the EE USB Dac,,,, gotta say that it's mighty damn close comparisons here. If this Dac had been around a year sooner, I could have saved over $2G on a needless transport. The EE USB Dac is that good.
 
But my 1st day wasn't so positive. My system is highly dynamic with solid 3D imaging sound stage. These are all highpoints of the EE Dac and I found it a little overwhelming. In comparing this Dac with a TDAC while at Bill's, I found out that the gain on the EE dac is significantly higher (volume knob at full). While this wasn't an issue in Bill's Salk HT-3 system, it was with mine. But simply turning down the volume on the EE Dac cured that issue for my system. 5:00 being the max volume, simply going to 3:00 tempered the dynamic issue for my system and while it's still a bit too much of a good thing for me personally, if I hadn't found the Havana Dac which just works better for what my system needs, I'd be all over this Dac. It does so many things good that I could easily live with this Dac and be both happy and a little more richer from the money UI would have saved. In Bill's Salk system, the EE Dac w/Mullard ECC82 tube provides an incredible 3D sound stage depth with nice tight bass. We both agreed that the EE Dac was the preferred Dac over the TAD TDAC or the AVA insight+ Dac.  :D  (I will be bringing my Havana w/Bendix Red Bank 6385 tube over  to Bill's in the near future after it's had it's cold bath)  8)
 
During my demo, I have been using a Herbies Ultrasonic RX-9 ring on the tube (it's for my Havana tube) and I found a positive clarity improvement with it's use. I would highly recommend an EE owner try this tubetweak out with Herbies 90 day money back trial. Trust me, it's cheaper shipping than a CD.  :lol:

As tubes go, I really like the Mullard ECC82 for it's 3D sound stage presentation but the Siemen tube has a higher clarity but with a punchier bass. I had to turn down the Bass 2db but it could be that this NOS tube simply needs some miles on it. I've only been using it 1 day now and I'm loving the clarity gain with it. I think I still prefer the Mullard ECC82,,, still too early to be sure. I like I love tubes.  :eyebrows:
 
I need to agree with Levi, the Eastern Electric USB Dac is a true giant killer, especially in a PC audio system.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 2 Apr 2010, 02:02 am
Thanks for the great review Robin. If the OffRamp isn't making a big difference, it would seem like the jitter claims of the Sabre chip are the real deal. Impressive. Spend any time with the op-amp output?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 2 Apr 2010, 02:20 am
Thanks for the great review Robin. If the OffRamp isn't making a big difference, it would seem like the jitter claims of the Sabre chip are the real deal. Impressive. Spend any time with the op-amp output?

Nope, not one inota of a second,,,, it's all about the tubes baby. :drool: I will say I like my Off Ramp 3's inner details slightly better but the EE's USB Saber chip is pretty damn good. I'm really curious to hear what Rim has to say with his comparisons.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rpf on 2 Apr 2010, 04:12 am
Levi was kind enough to bring over his EE to my house a couple of weeks ago and I have to agree with both he and Robin that it is an impressive DAC and a great value. We compared it with my Havana (with upgraded output caps). The rest of my system now consists of a Marantz SA15V2 as transport, a Rogue Cronus (with Black Treasure 6CA7s and upgraded NOS signal tubes) and Aural Acoustics Model B speakers. Wires were: Jena Labs Spkr. and analog IC cables, KCI Pegusus digital IC, and Black Sand and Kaplan PCs.

Although I preferred the Havana overall, the EE produced highs the likes of which I don't think I've ever heard before. I love the virtues of NOS DACs but they do roll off the highs a touch. All other up-sampling DACs I've heard, while more extended than NOS types, have something fatiguing going on in the treble; sort of an "out of phase quality" that I can no longer tolerate. I did not hear this quality in the EE. Perhaps the couple of hours we listened were not enough but it did seem that the highs were more cohesive than the other up-samplers (over a half dozen $2k+ DACs and $3k+ CDPs) I've heard have produced in my system. They were certainly very sweet, extended and resolving. The sound as a whole was very smooth, cohesive and spacious, with excellent tonal accuracy (using the Mullard CV4003; the RCA cleartop was solid stateish sounding), although the MHDT had a touch more texture. The EE's deficits relative to my Havana were a lack of macro dynamics and powerful bass. These were things that were significantly improved in the latter piece by the upgraded caps and an upgraded fuse, so perhaps similar improvement can be wrought upon the EE (although its transformer is smaller than the Havana's toroid). Surprisingly to me, the micro dynamics of the EE matched the NOS MHDT's and were superb.

It, of course, needs to be remembered that a new Havana with replaced output caps costs a few hundred dollars (at least 25-30%) more than the EE. I would love to hear an upgraded version of this new DAC.


Edit: I forgot to mention that the EE also has a deeper soundstage than the Havana. (Thanks Robin, for reminding me  8)).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 2 Apr 2010, 04:21 am
If you don't mind my asking Rob, what tube are you using in your Havana? You've really got me looking forward to getting my Havana back next week from Cryoparts.  :hyper:
 
Hopefully I'll still have the EE Dac so I can do some comparisons of my own in my system before I head back to Bill's. Levi needs to try a Siemens tube if he's like more clarity with punchy bass.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rpf on 2 Apr 2010, 04:33 am
I'll PM you so as not to hijack this thread. I also told Levi to upgrade the fuse in the EE: that made a significant difference in dynamics with the Havana.   8)  Something I did not expect.  :scratch:

R
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 2 Apr 2010, 04:40 am
I have yet to try a Siemens tube, Thanks Robin.  Rob has great tweaks for the Havana. 

Likewise, many thanks to Rob (rpf) for inviting me to his house and to sort out the tube for the EE ;)  Rob has lots of good tubes in the house.  I will definitely be back to his place for more listening and learning experience.  :thumb:

I am sure it is system dependent but I am digging the CV4003 in my EE DAC.  Your mileage may vary.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 2 Apr 2010, 04:45 am
Congrats Woodsyi. 

Just remember it takes 2-weeks++ non-stop to breakin.  The EE DAC will open up as Bill suggested.

Got mine yesterday.  I didn't splurge for the air freight shipment.  I have not had much time to do anything but I am looking forward to getting it fired up.  I have to go through my tubes to see what I got that would work with it. 

I am curious how this will stack up against my Northstar/Pacecar.  The jitter reducing circuitry of the Sabre chip versus the asynch reclocker.  It will be fun. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 2 Apr 2010, 01:10 pm
A few comments about what I heard re the EE DAC at the last Rave-
(Overall I did not like the sound of the system we listened on - way too bright for my tastes)

Someone said it was the only DAC to compete w/ BobM's modded Ayre and I agree.
We heard several DACs then Bob's AYRE was put in and was a noticable step up in SQ.

The EE had a wonderful high end and good flesh on the bones, as far as I could tell in this unfamiliar room/system.

We heard a Museatex DAC that was ear-bleedy forward, way more foreward than any other which worked against it in the bright system.

The Bryston BDA-1 was placed in and after only a few seconds it was apparent that it sounded worse than the other DACs - A weird hollowy/synthetic sound. It was taken out of the chain after a few minutes (this was a real rapid-fire swap-fest) and was not put back in. I was bummed in that I thought it would sound great and it was on my short list but now I'll really have to give it another serious try before considering it again.

I thought the VanAlstine that was there sounded about the worst of all the dacs. My immediate impression was "where did the bass go and who put horn speakers in?" It was flat and shouty.

The Maverick was nice 'n smooth but very lacking in resolution vs. the EE. Sounded good for the $$ for sure.

In short, I definitely heard enough good things about the EE to keep my interest up. I hear there may be a "hot-rod" version made sans volume control, which is what I'd want.

Anyway, all of the above is IMHO w/ my ears etc., and was gleaned from brief listens on an unfamiliar system, so don't listen to a thing I have to say :lol:

-Mike

 




Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 2 Apr 2010, 02:01 pm
A few comments about what I heard re the EE DAC at the last Rave-
(Overall I did not like the sound of the system we listened on - way too bright for my tastes)

Someone said it was the only DAC to compete w/ BobM's modded Ayre and I agree.
We heard several DACs then Bob's AYRE was put in and was a noticable step up in SQ.

The EE had a wonderful high end and good flesh on the bones, as far as I could tell in this unfamiliar room/system.

We heard a Museatex DAC that was ear-bleedy forward, way more foreward than any other which worked against it in the bright system.

The Bryston BDA-1 was placed in and after only a few seconds it was apparent that it sounded worse than the other DACs - A weird hollowy/synthetic sound. It was taken out of the chain after a few minutes (this was a real rapid-fire swap-fest) and was not put back in. I was bummed in that I thought it would sound great and it was on my short list but now I'll really have to give it another serious try before considering it again.

I thought the VanAlstine that was there sounded about the worst of all the dacs. My immediate impression was "where did the bass go and who put horn speakers in?" It was flat and shouty.

The Maverick was nice 'n smooth but very lacking in resolution vs. the EE. Sounded good for the $$ for sure.

In short, I definitely heard enough good things about the EE to keep my interest up. I hear there may be a "hot-rod" version made sans volume control, which is what I'd want.

Anyway, all of the above is IMHO w/ my ears etc., and was gleaned from brief listens on an unfamiliar system, so don't listen to a thing I have to say :lol:

-Mike


Mike I am impressed, this confirmed my notes of the March 2010 NYAR meeting.  BobM's Ayre CD Player is no slouch.  We listened to the same cut over-and-over again.  It was an unfamiliar music but well recorded.  However, even if it was just one cut the difference in sound between gears were easily identifiable. 

Just make sure to truly audition the EE Dac in your own system before buying. 

BTW, Those Alon IV tweeters needs careful matching of gears and room acoustics.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 2 Apr 2010, 02:03 pm
Not to derail this thread re the EE DAC, which I am still very interested in, but by PM or otherwise I'd love to hear about the mod's to Bob's Ayre DAC.......

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: carusoracer on 2 Apr 2010, 04:25 pm
There are some very good writeups in this thread. :thumb:

I'm glad others have inserted the Caveat of system synergy. Too bad here in Ohio we do not have anything organized to hear new gear etc. It certainly limits the scope of products that can be heard firsthand in your own personal gear. AKFESt is still always a nice Midwest Show to hear products.

With that said, and with Bill's kindness, I will post my impressions as well over the next week. I have a pretty good assortment of 12AU7's from my Minimax Pre, too bad I don't have pairs to run at the same time as the preamp :duh:

My premonition would be for a nice, Bendix Red Bank type tube in the mix. Too bad they did not make a 12AU7 variant. I'm running a early 60's Valvo Hamburg right now. Pretty nice so far.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 2 Apr 2010, 06:27 pm
I have yet to try a Siemens tube, Thanks Robin.  Rob has great tweaks for the Havana. 

Likewise, many thanks to Rob (rpf) for inviting me to his house and to sort out the tube for the EE ;)  Rob has lots of good tubes in the house.  I will definitely be back to his place for more listening and learning experience.  :thumb:

I am sure it is system dependent but I am digging the CV4003 in my EE DAC.  Your mileage may vary.

I couldn't take it anymore Levi, after close to 50 hours on the Siemens tube, the bass was simply too overbearing which made the clarity gains worthless imho. I just went back to the Mullard and it was instant relief. I returned the -2db back to the bass and I now have back the taunt bass, detailed 3D sound stage that's very balanced with the bass. I can't recommend the Siemens,, at least not the one I tried.  :duh:
 
Mullard it is!  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ctviggen on 2 Apr 2010, 08:16 pm
Anyone think there should be a shoot out between the  dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC and the EE DAC?  It seems these two DACs get the most coverage on this board.  dB labs I believe is over twice as expensive, though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 2 Apr 2010, 08:55 pm
Yeah that would be interesting,, but just not in this Eastern Electric Industrial Ad thread.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 2 Apr 2010, 08:59 pm
Agreed. There is an Eastern Electric DAC review thread here on AC as well.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 2 Apr 2010, 09:47 pm
Thanks Robin for the heads up on the Siemens tube.   Honestly, I stopped rolling tubes. 

Who is doing the "hot-rod" version. ?!?  A friend pointed to me that the volume control can be bypassed.  However, No one knows for sure what that will do.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rpf on 2 Apr 2010, 09:58 pm
To the Mods: if you think my post above should be moved to the EE DAC review thread, please do so. I forgot it existed as everyone seems to be posting here.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 3 Apr 2010, 04:56 am
Hi Guys,

 I just sent Shek some tubes to roll in the DAC, Phillips pinched waist D getter E80CC, a Siemens silverplate 12au7 I don't believe this was the Siemens that Robin used, a Valvo ECC186/Amperex 7316, a triple mica Raytheon blackplate 5814A, and the longplate Mullard K61 date code 12au7, they won't arrive to NY until Tuesday.
 Levi, you should try a few of these, I know you like your cv4003 Mullard but all of these are worth a listen if you have the chance maybe Shek could send them your way after he is done listening.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 3 Apr 2010, 05:13 am
Bill, the Siemens box says ECC82 *TFK* and the tube is stamped 270. I really know nothing of these tubes as i'm just demo'ing them from a friend.
 
There is another Siemens here that I haven't tried, a E82CC CV4003. As good as the Mullard is, I'm not sure I want to yank it out again.  :lol:  But I'm sure my curiosity will get the best of me.  :D  I only have a handful of days left with this giant killer.
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 3 Apr 2010, 07:03 am
Couldn't get that other Siemens E82CC CV4003 tube out of my mind so I plopped it in after I ProGold the pins ( a little something I'm doing for all the tubes). Well after about an hour of listening, this Siemens is a 180% turnaround from the other Siemens. Nice clean sound stage, taut bass, this is a very nice tube indeed.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ctviggen on 3 Apr 2010, 11:50 am
Yeah that would be interesting,, but just not in this Eastern Electric Industrial Ad thread.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

So, one can review the EE DAC -- in this thread -- against a ton of other DACs and post the results -- again, in this thread -- but one cannot review the EE DAC and the dB labs and post the results in this thread?  This doesn't make any sense to me. 

For instance, here's one review in this thread:

"Although I preferred the Havana overall, the EE produced highs the likes of which I don't think I've ever heard before"

Another review:

"In comparing this [the EE] Dac with a TDAC while at Bill's, I found out that the gain on the EE dac is significantly higher (volume knob at full). "

It simply does not make sense that comparisons between the EE DAC and every other DAC but the dB Labs can be made in this thread, bu the EE v dB labs has to be made elsewhere. 

In what way does this make sense to you? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 3 Apr 2010, 01:58 pm
So, one can review the EE DAC -- in this thread -- against a ton of other DACs and post the results -- again, in this thread -- but one cannot review the EE DAC and the dB labs and post the results in this thread?  This doesn't make any sense to me. 

......

In what way does this make sense to you?

A thread (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77901.0) was created in the Critics circle for EE DAC reviews. The Critics circle was created for reviews.  The Industry Ads circle was created for the announcement of products and questions for the makers/sellers of the product.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 3 Apr 2010, 04:45 pm
So, one can review the EE DAC -- in this thread -- against a ton of other DACs and post the results -- again, in this thread -- but one cannot review the EE DAC and the dB labs and post the results in this thread?  This doesn't make any sense to me. 

For instance, here's one review in this thread:

"Although I preferred the Havana overall, the EE produced highs the likes of which I don't think I've ever heard before"

Another review:

"In comparing this [the EE] Dac with a TDAC while at Bill's, I found out that the gain on the EE dac is significantly higher (volume knob at full). "

It simply does not make sense that comparisons between the EE DAC and every other DAC but the dB Labs can be made in this thread, bu the EE v dB labs has to be made elsewhere. 

In what way does this make sense to you?

I know Bob,,, guilty as charged.  :oops:  But it's hard to report on the Industry announced Dac when actually comparing it with the other Dac's at hand. If it were to lead to promoting another company's Dac, i would refrain but with my comparisons, I'm highliting the strengths of the EE Dac, that's how I justified it,,, and I was wrong in even bringing them up Bob, you are right.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jbtrio on 3 Apr 2010, 07:05 pm
Those are very nice tubes Bill is sending Shek! Those long plate Mullards should sound better then the CV4003.
Satfrat, if you like Siemens you should try their 5814a triple mica.
Levi if you like I have a few 12au7s you can try.

Joe
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 3 Apr 2010, 07:21 pm
Those are very nice tubes Bill is sending Shek! Those long plate Mullards should sound better then the CV4003.
Satfrat, if you like Siemens you should try their 5814a triple mica.
Levi if you like I have a few 12au7s you can try.

Joe

This Dac and it's tube are on loan but I'm sure it's owner is reading this thread, that's the the recommendation Joe.  :thumb:  It's been hit/miss with the 2 Siemens tubes I have on hand. But this Siemens E82CC CV4003 is simply blowingme away.  :duh:  It has all the atttributes of the Mullard but it's clearer, more balanced with sparkling highs and a nice taut bass, and it still retains the Mullard's 3D sound stage depth. I've had it playing 13 hours now I'm going to be hard pressed to shut her down when the NCAA Tourney starts at 6pm.  :lol:  This EE Dac has been a pleasure to demo.  :dance:
 
Oh, did I mention I'm using Joe's Kaplan power cord to good effect on the EE dac? I'll be returning it to you April 24 at Emil's RAVE.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 4 Apr 2010, 03:41 am
Just revisited the DAC with Mullard CV4003 tube.  Its been burning in all week and my impression is much better this listen.  I was hearing a harshness in midrange before that was very unappealing.  This is sounding more like it.  My listening is being done at low levels due to sleeping, pregnant wife, but I'm much happier.

I love this thing! 

Are there any reviews in the works with any of the audiophile publications?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Apr 2010, 02:11 am
Thanks Bill and Joe for the tube recommendations. 

I will check with Shek when he gets back from vacation. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 9 Apr 2010, 12:41 pm
Thanks Bill and Joe for the tube recommendations. 

I will check with Shek when he gets back from vacation.

Hey Levi, I met you guys on the street last night and you didn't mention it :lol:.  You guys probably were too hungry last night.  Seriously, I will likely be listening with the tubes over this weekend, if I find time.  This is a busy weekend for me, taxes and other parties.....  :eyebrows: 

Will keep you posted. :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2010, 12:48 pm
Excellent Shek.  The tube to beat is a Mullard CV4003.  :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 9 Apr 2010, 04:40 pm
Excellent Shek.  The tube to beat is a Mullard CV4003.  :)

I'm trying to do the CV4003 one better tooooooo.  Before I even say anything, let me give a BIG  :thumb: to salute Bill for sending me those treasured valves.  I'm sure I'll find any of them can be the top act.  Thanks again Bill. :flame:

Shek
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 9 Apr 2010, 05:29 pm
While I had the EE dac, instead of the enclosed tube dampening cylinder, I was using a Herbie's Ultrasonic RX-9 ring dampener which really brought out the clarity of the tubes in play. ymmv.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 9 Apr 2010, 05:51 pm
Excellent Shek.  The tube to beat is a Mullard CV4003.  :)

I have several Mullards, including 2 CV4003s, with dates spanning several decades.  They sound great, but in my system, in my listening room, to my ears, they are not the top dog.   I am currently playing an RFT that sounds better (more open sound, especially in the top end), but my favorite tube is a Dario MiniWatt from the Amprex/Philips Heerlen factory (sound is just magical).  YMMV.   :thumb:

I also have two more NOS tubes from the Heerlen factory to try out. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2010, 06:22 pm
Hey Robin, If you are getting an EE Dac, I may have some OPAMP tweaks. :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 9 Apr 2010, 06:53 pm
Hey Robin, If you are getting an EE Dac, I may have some OPAMP tweaks. :)

Actually Levi, I took back the EE Dac to it's owner yesterday and have received my Havana Dac w/Bendix Red Bank 6385 tube back from cyro. I had really grown fond of this tube Dac tho and if it weren't for the fact that I am aready invested with a topnotch Empirical Off-Ramp transport w/Ultraclock, I wouldn't have been looking for a NOS Dac in the 1st place. If this Dac had been around a year sooner, I could have saved thousands of dollars, it's that good of a USB Dac.
 
Another fact of the matter is my friend is sending his EE Dac out for modification exploration,,,, more to come.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2010, 10:40 pm
While I had the EE dac, instead of the enclosed tube dampening cylinder, I was using a Herbie's Ultrasonic RX-9 ring dampener which really brought out the clarity of the tubes in play. ymmv.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin

Great friggin' suggestion, Robin!  I just threw a Herbie's HAL-O I had sitting in my tweak box on my new Mullard.  I've enjoyed this DAC from day one, but that was my first  "holy sh*t" moment. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 10 Apr 2010, 06:33 pm
Excellent Shek.  The tube to beat is a Mullard CV4003.  :)

Ha, Levi, I had some idle time just now because of plan changes for the day.  I sneaked in a round with Bill's Valvo ECC82 E80CC.  After 15 warm-up, I popped in my favorite recording, again, Maria Pires's Chopin 2nd Piano Concerto, 2nd movement, Larghetto (throwing fancy words now!).  Main reason: I am most familiar and enamored with the piano sound.

My immediate perception - darned same sound like the NOS 1543 DAC I had, Shek.... How's that?  The mids are as usual, sweet, with a shine.  Better yet, the mids and lows are "MORE" supple than the CV4003 Mullard.  But.... because of the heavier mids and lows, the Valvo's sound seemed a tad cloudy, less sharp/clear, if you will.  AND, because of that, the sense of proportionality between the lower spectrum and the treble seemed to indicate that it's less extended at the top.  But.... I think it's mainly because the sound with the Valvo, as a result, seemed "softer".

Is it my NEW top dog (vs. the Mullard CV4003, that is!)?  Hmmmmm, tough call.  I sorely missed the NOS Shek DAC's sweetness, so this Valvo really perked up my ears.  I'm hard-pressed.  Now, all I know is pray that the CV4003 will darken a little more, give me more shine in the sound...... If you press me hard to "choose", I'd run with the Valvo.  May be, I'll apply more Kontak to clean the pins more, and the sound will come cleaner and a little clearer, less soft......?????? :duh:, which would be perrrrrrrrfect for me.

The 3-dimensionality with the Valvo is even more amazing.  Should I use "even" even?  I did not A-B with the CV4003, but I seem to note that with the Valvo the stage is wider and deeper.  But.... the wide-deep sense of the EE DAC seems universal with the various tubes I put in.  So, its virtue may be attributed to the Sabre chip really.  No matter what, I just love it.  If my recollection (with the CV4003) is correct (don't trust one's memory too much though! :lol:), with the wider/better soundstage under the Valvo because the warmth of the sound, the CV4003 definitely seems cleaner and leaner.  Meaner too?

This is Chapter 1, out of a possible 5, since I now have 5 premium tubes to roll.   I might add, it's a pain to yank the tubes out from behind the EE DAC.n I had to "rock" the tube very, very slowly and carefully, fearing I'd break something, as they are tightly tripped.  This Valvo is taller, so I suppose my fingers will not hurt as much pulling it out (those shortie ones will pose a more serious problem).  But.... with the intoxicating sweetness and warmth, the pain/ache on the fingers is short-lived. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 10 Apr 2010, 07:01 pm
Shek,

 The Valvo you are speaking of I believe is the Valvo pinched waist D getter E80CC, not a ECC82.In reality it is in a Valvo box but I believe all the E80CC's tubes were made by Amperex in the Holland factory and companies just relabled them ie..Telefunken, Mullard.
 Tungsram also made a E80CC but I think that is it.

 Just wanted to have you check and maybe verify the Valvo tube that your speaking of.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 10 Apr 2010, 11:14 pm
Thanks for the quick review of the tubes Shek. 

I find it easier to change tubes if you remove the top.  Your fingers will then have access from the top. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 10 Apr 2010, 11:29 pm
....
 I sorely missed the NOS Shek DAC's sweetness, ...

Hey!

    You've mentioned this couple of times already. Why did you sell the Shek DAC at the first place?

     So, how many DACs have you gone through since you sold the Shek DAC?

     You should have kept the Shek DAC.

     Anyway, good luck.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

     
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 11 Apr 2010, 12:40 am
As big as my hands are and I had no issues whatsoever with the EE Dac tube rolling. I was able to wiggle 2 fingers down towards the base of the tube and pull it right out. Maybe all them years of "digging for gold" nose picking finally did pay off.  :lol:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 11 Apr 2010, 02:57 am
Shek,

 The Valvo you are speaking of I believe is the Valvo pinched waist D getter E80CC, not a ECC82.In reality it is in a Valvo box but I believe all the E80CC's tubes were made by Amperex in the Holland factory and companies just relabled them ie..Telefunken, Mullard.
 Tungsram also made a E80CC but I think that is it.

 Just wanted to have you check and maybe verify the Valvo tube that your speaking of.

 Thanks,
 Bill

I did say memories are faulty sometimes, didn't I, Bill?  Yes, absolutely, checked the box, it's E80CC.  My apology!  Good that it didn't change the sound! :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 11 Apr 2010, 03:01 am
Hey!

    You've mentioned this couple of times already. Why did you sell the Shek DAC at the first place?

     So, how many DACs have you gone through since you sold the Shek DAC?

     You should have kept the Shek DAC.

     Anyway, good luck.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

   

I changed the output caps, but misplaced the originals.  The maker said he threw out all the design etc...., couldn't tell me what Siemens caps they were (Model, #s... think it was just out of convenience not to help!).  So..... I don't have the same anymore. :duh:

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC - Chapter Mullard 12Au7
Post by: goldlizsts on 12 Apr 2010, 02:59 pm
I'm trying to do the CV4003 one better tooooooo.  Before I even say anything, let me give a BIG  :thumb: to salute Bill for sending me those treasured valves.  I'm sure I'll find any of them can be the top act.  Thanks again Bill. :flame:

Shek

Just swapped in the 12AU7 Mullard Bill sent.  It's leaner, cleaner, and meaner.  The CV4003 has more warmth in the mid section, rounder in sound.  In a woman, it'd be Broader On The Brim, which is what the CV4003 is about.  So, the CV4003 is definitely more preferred in my book. 

The 12AU7 Mullard is of course still very musical.  However, the Valvo still seems (from memory now) sweeter, tho the Valvo is a bit on the unclear side because of its warmth, vs. the 12AU7 Mullard.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 12 Apr 2010, 04:27 pm

 Tungsram also made a E80CC but I think that is it.


Tungsram did make E80CC, which is the other major E80CC one can find from usual places.  Tungsram E80CC tends to sound more "transparent" and less bloomy, and I preferred it over Amperex E80CC in certain situations.  Those who prefer the "classic" tube sound of other Holland tubes will likely prefer the Amperex, but those with already-too-warm systems should try out the Tungsram as well JIMHO.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 13 Apr 2010, 01:59 am
Excellent Shek.  The tube to beat is a Mullard CV4003.  :)

Chapter - Siemens Silver Plate.

Levi, I may have found the tube to beat the Mullard CV4003.  Just had my initial session with the Siemens tube.  Here's my take - Body of the sound (esp. the mids of course) is supple, just like the Mullard CV4003.  It's also very clean sounding.  But.... I think the Siemens has more "air", less haze than the Valvo.  The piano sound has more oomph, more clings and clangs, if you know what they mean  :duh:.  More spacious, dimensionality.  Oh, another word, better holographiness?  I have to invent words to label the Siemens.  To me, the Siemens tube is just more magical.  :thumb:  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 13 Apr 2010, 02:59 am
Chapter - Siemens Silver Plate.

Levi, I may have found the tube to beat the CV4003.  Just had my initial session with the Siemens tube.  Here's my take - Body of the sound (esp. the mids of course) is supple, just like the CV4003.  It's also very clean sounding.  But.... I think the Siemens has more "air", less haze than the Valvo.  The piano sound has more oomph, more clings and clangs, if you know what they mean  :duh: .  More spacious, dimensionality.  Oh, another word, better holographiness?  I have to invent words to label the Siemens.  To me, the Siemens tube is just more magical.  :thumb: :drool:

 :thumb:   :thumb:   :thumb:  Me too.  :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 13 Apr 2010, 04:08 am
I have to check out the Siemens tube.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ltr317 on 13 Apr 2010, 04:16 am
I have to check out the Siemens tube.  Thanks!

You'll have to stop buying brains on Zombie Farm first to free up some money.   :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 13 Apr 2010, 04:55 am
Hey Paul, It's only money. ;)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 13 Apr 2010, 05:09 am
Check those Siemens for the diamon logo on the bottom - they just might be Telefunkens!   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 13 Apr 2010, 09:55 am
I have to check out the Siemens tube.  Thanks!

It's probably quite expensive, if you can even find one.  If you find 2, I'll take one. :eyebrows:  Someone is offering me $135, for 1, not pair......  :scratch:

Upscale has a Siemens, but probably not the same (more recently produced....), just by the price difference.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 13 Apr 2010, 12:00 pm
Thanks Shek.  Let me know as well if you find a pair.  Then again, I need to listen to it to see if it is worth the money ;)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 Apr 2010, 01:59 pm
Upscale has a Siemens, but probably not the same (more recently produced....), just by the price difference.

Yeah, I almost bought one from Upscale, but stopped when I couldn't get confirmation as to whether it was the right Siemens...  Anyone know for sure? 

On a side note, the Mullard really came around for me.  I like it quite a bit and am tempted to revisit some of the other 12au7s I plugged in NOS and give them a fair time to break in as it took like 5 days for the Mullard to come around.

Question:  I like to leave my solid state equipment on all the time.  If I leave this DAC on, but toggle off tube section, am I killing tube life?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 13 Apr 2010, 08:50 pm
Yeah, I almost bought one from Upscale, but stopped when I couldn't get confirmation as to whether it was the right Siemens...  Anyone know for sure? 

On a side note, the Mullard really came around for me.  I like it quite a bit and am tempted to revisit some of the other 12au7s I plugged in NOS and give them a fair time to break in as it took like 5 days for the Mullard to come around.

Question:  I like to leave my solid state equipment on all the time.  If I leave this DAC on, but toggle off tube section, am I killing tube life?

When I last yanked a tube, I tried just after shutting down the DAC, and it was just warm to the touch.  That probably is a good indicator that it won't burn out that fast (as like anything, it will die sometime down the road!).  The DAC is not a big eater, so I would think leaving it on would be OK.  Of course, it is not as good to just turn it on and let it warm up for 10-15 before listening, vs. leaving it on 24/7?  I
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 13 Apr 2010, 11:05 pm
Yeah, I almost bought one from Upscale, but stopped when I couldn't get confirmation as to whether it was the right Siemens...  Anyone know for sure? 

On a side note, the Mullard really came around for me.  I like it quite a bit and am tempted to revisit some of the other 12au7s I plugged in NOS and give them a fair time to break in as it took like 5 days for the Mullard to come around.

Question:  I like to leave my solid state equipment on all the time.  If I leave this DAC on, but toggle off tube section, am I killing tube life?

The Siemens that blew my socks off, both in my system and in Bill's Salk system had Siemens E82CC CV4003 stamped right on the tube. You'd have to ask Bill@LakeGeorge (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1213) where he got his but I'm sure it wasn't cheap. And it's probably not the same tube that Shek is testing either,, I really don't know. I did test a 2nd Siemens tube that Bill had and it totally sucked.
 
Thanks for mentioning your taking a liking to the Herbie's dampening ring. It's not getting much love from the tube luvr's but for use with the 2 tube dac applications I've tried 1 on, it's good to go in my book.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 14 Apr 2010, 12:31 pm
The EE DAC is great with $20-40 tube. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 14 Apr 2010, 12:35 pm
I see that someone mentioned RFT - The RFT 12AU7s have always worked very well for me in my VAC pre and amp, and I'm thinking would be good for this DAC as well.

Anyone try a La Radiotechnique? I have a pair - when I see you guys it'd be interesting to pop one in.

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 14 Apr 2010, 12:40 pm
Thanks Mike.  I have so many tubes that was loaned to me, I developed callus on my thumb and pointing finger from tube rolling already.  LOL.  Maybe Shek will try them.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 14 Apr 2010, 04:45 pm
Hey Paul, It's only money. ;)

I am having a decent tax season, so some client will be buying me a Siemens Silver Plate perhaps.  IF I can find one.  It's hard to get.  I googled, and came up with a German source.  But... that gentleman wants 100 euros.  That's $135.  Insane!?!?!?!  :lol:

It's only money!  :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jrebman on 14 Apr 2010, 08:46 pm
Has anybody tried this dac fed by a bnc hiface into the bnc connection?  I'm sorry, but I cannot take any results obtained with an airport express as anything close to serious as IMO, the AE is perhapsthe worst piece of digital audio gear ever built.  Close anyway.  I'm not arguing the convenience factor, just the performance.

Robin and Gopher, I'm a tube guy and love the ultrasonic Rxs in any place where a damper works well.  Gopher, try the Rx -- it is an easily discernable upgrade from the Halo.  I was very skeptical that it could do any better so bought a couple on Steve's generous return policy, and not only is he not getting them back, he'll be getting orders for more when I can afford them -- for my new amps.

-- Jim
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 14 Apr 2010, 09:24 pm
Has anybody tried this dac fed by a bnc hiface into the bnc connection?  I'm sorry, but I cannot take any results obtained with an airport express as anything close to serious as IMO, the AE is perhapsthe worst piece of digital audio gear ever built.  Close anyway.  I'm not arguing the convenience factor, just the performance.

Robin and Gopher, I'm a tube guy and love the ultrasonic Rxs in any place where a damper works well.  Gopher, try the Rx -- it is an easily discernable upgrade from the Halo.  I was very skeptical that it could do any better so bought a couple on Steve's generous return policy, and not only is he not getting them back, he'll be getting orders for more when I can afford them -- for my new amps.

-- Jim


OK Jim,

 Herbies Ultrasonic Rx's it is.I'll order one for the DAC and a couple for some 12SX7's also.
 Wayne over at Bolder Cables was kind enough to let me have some of the Herbies( not sure if they were the Halo's or the damper after the Halo's) for the EL156 monoblocks after we showed together at the RMAF. I liked what they did so maybe these Ultrasonic Rx's will prove to be a substantial tweak.  Thanks for the heads up on these.
 Agree on the AE!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: sfox7076 on 14 Apr 2010, 11:21 pm
The AE is not the best piece of equipment made, but it is convenient and for my office system, it is what will work for me.  Is it the worst piece of digital audio gear ever made? Hardly.  I can name many DACs/CD players/DVD players that are worse than the AE and cost far more.  I like the EE DAC and what it offers, do I wish I didn't have to jump through hoops to get it to work with the AE initially, yes.  Is this a flaw of the AE?  Yes.  Is this a flaw of the EE Dac?  Yes.  It is what it is and regardless of which side has the bad implementation, it is clear that the newest AE does not play well with the EE DAC.  I am not saying that either party is going to address the issue (or even should), it is just a fact.  Apple could spend time to fix the issues, but they have not.  The EE DAC implementation could have, had they known of the issue, possibly found a work around.  They didn't.  The only point is that the AE N doesn't work well with the EE DAC for some reason.  For some this may be no issue because the AE is not a "serious piece of audio equipment" that should be used with the EE DAC.  But, for the average buyer from the masses who wants to use an AE, it is.  Again, I like my purchase and it is great for the AE G I have for my office.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 14 Apr 2010, 11:50 pm
Has anybody tried this dac fed by a bnc hiface into the bnc connection? 


Yes.  We listened to a PC Laptop with Hiface using a bnc input.  It sounds good.  I am not truly sold on hiface.  The regular USB connection works just fine since the ESS 9018 32bit Sabre dac has "time domain Jitter eliminator".   
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 15 Apr 2010, 12:12 am
Levi,

Did you have a chance to A/B the HiFace and USB input on the DAC?

-Roscoe
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 15 Apr 2010, 01:42 am

OK Jim,

 Herbies Ultrasonic Rx's it is.I'll order one for the DAC and a couple for some 12SX7's also.
 Wayne over at Bolder Cables was kind enough to let me have some of the Herbies( not sure if they were the Halo's or the damper after the Halo's) for the EL156 monoblocks after we showed together at the RMAF. I liked what they did so maybe these Ultrasonic Rx's will prove to be a substantial tweak.  Thanks for the heads up on these.
 Agree on the AE!

Hey Bob, I have both the Hal-O's and the RX-9's in my system and while the Hal-O work ok, the RX-9 is a much more refined dampening ring, highly more senstive to microvibrations. Works much better than the EE's dampening cover imho.  :thumb:
 
Thanks Jim for the conformation, I'm glad it's just not me who loves these Herbie's RX-9 dampening rings .  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jrebman on 15 Apr 2010, 02:33 am
Levy,

I'm guessing you didn't do any comparisons of high-res files ((unless they were resampled) through the usb input, and that's mainly where my interest lies.  I'll also have to take a closer look at Gordon's asyync usb-spdif converter -- if it's any near as good as other Wavelength products I've owned, it should be killer.

Thanks,

Jim

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 15 Apr 2010, 02:44 am
I heard the HiFace vs USB and did not hear a substantial jump in performance.  In my opinion, I don't remember hearing a difference or change in sound.  The sabre dac is that good!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jrebman on 15 Apr 2010, 02:47 am
Hi Robin,

I'm guessing the tube cover in the EE dac is more of a shield than a damping device, in fact, the springs in these shields can often make the tubes more sensitive to vibrations.  Sometimes they are absolutely necessary for shielding and have to be left in place, but I found my EE CD player sounded better with them off and some halos on the tubes instead.  Unfortunately, I'm 100% computer driven now and don't have a disc spinner of any kind in the house, but the EE was one of my faves.  I shouldn't say unfortunately as everything is far more convenient now (imagine trying to be a blind librarian with hundreds and hundreds of CDs and albums to sort through when you want to listen to something :-) ) but after countless dac and transport combinations in everything from the $200 to $10k range, the sound has never been better than it is now.

-- Jim

BTW, if you live in a place where you need the tube shield in place, the paint-on Anti-Vibration Magic (AVM) also works well on signal tubes that don't get too hot -- don't use this on your 6h30s, 5687s, or other preamp tubes that run very hot.

-- Jim

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jrebman on 15 Apr 2010, 03:03 am
Hey Bill,

When you get the Rx-9s, try playing with the position on the tube.  I found that when running the 6p15p-evs on my Carina that somewhere between 1/3rd of the way up from the bottom and 1/2 way down was the sensitive spot and depending on position I could tune for warmer or brighter presentation.  I'm not sure all tubes will respond like this, but it was really nice being able to dial in just the right balance to suit the room and speakers.  It does take patience, and eventually I made a small template out of a piece of popsicle stick to make sure I got them just where I wanted them and the same on both tubes.

-- Jim
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 15 Apr 2010, 03:27 am
Hi Jim,

  I'll give that a try. Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: carusoracer on 15 Apr 2010, 08:18 pm
My impressions:

Off the top the unit is very, very good. I did not have the chance to try it with the USB computer connection. The configuration I used was RCA/Coax to transport and a Integrated Tube Amp.
-Soundstage: Exceptional
-Imaging: Very Good, I would like to have a touch more air, but still good.
-Dynamics: very realistically portrayed
-PRAT: This is where all of the EE products perform the best
-Sound: The unit can be tailored to any particular sound that you want with the usual PC, IC route , with the added bonus of tube rolling. While I have not settled in with my favorite tube yet, I did roll several others and the results varied as expected. It really takes the meaning of possible permutations to another level.
On a side note, I'm not sure why others did not like the Raytheon Triple Mica. My 55' really took off, as did the 61' Valvo. 
-Packaging: Very good, the instructions manual could be more elaborate for other applications. Boxing and labeling on the unit has a nice touch with the font and dials.
-Overall: My impressions of DAC's has changed considerably. I have listened to several for quite sometime and have not been that impressed. I had always had better luck with a good quality CDP and than modifying the unit.  I can not give good marks for tube rolling endeavors with pin socket...I had a tough time removing tubes and did not want to break a pin on some very old tubes. That did bring cause for concern as I was reluctant to swap. I do understand that the cover can be taken off, but I'm not comfortable with a unit I'm auditioning versus one that I own.

I could say that it comes very close to my reference in many ways and has a easy listening sound. The voicing is very good. Can it stand up to my reference, it really does not matter because it is at a different price point.  I think EE has hit a home run with the ESS Sabre technology and the multiple user inputs at a good, competitive price.

Great company to work with in Alex and Importer Bill!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 16 Apr 2010, 01:27 pm
+2

Agreed!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 16 Apr 2010, 08:21 pm
I'm curious.......have any of you who own the EE DAC compared it in stock form to the sound of the Oppo 83SE?  Trying to decide on my next upgrade to the chain and am torn between the Oppo or a dedicated DAC with the sabre chip like the EE DAC or the DAC-1 from Wyred.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 17 Apr 2010, 03:47 am
Final Chapter - Rolling on Bill's  "good old" Tubes - Raytheon JAN-CRP-5814 & Valvo  ECC 186.

First, Bill, the box for the Valvo ECC 186 says Hewlett Packard 7316.  Likely the wrong box was used.

Both of these tubes are pretty good.  I am saying "pretty good" because after playing with the Valvo E80CC and the Siemens Silver Plate, these last two tubes are just good, compared to those two EXCELLENT 2.  I am by no means knocking these 2.  They are also no slouch, only that they are not in the league of the Valvo E80CC or the Siemens Silver Plate.

The Raytheon is clean, but not so magical, just on the polite side.  With the Siemens Silver Plate, the sound just immediately perk up one's ears, while the sound of the Raytheon is just smooth enough.

The Valvo ECC 186 is similar, only that it seems to give a deeper soundstage, harmonically a little richer.  The sound is more attractive.  The tone is firmer than the Raytheon.  I would say both are a tad on the soft side for my taste.  :thumb: :green:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 18 Apr 2010, 02:35 pm
Hey Paul, It's only money. ;)

Talk about money, I just thought of this.  I am glad I got this EE DAC.  I was supposed to get an Audio Note, just a kit even.  That would likely have cost me $2K.  Glad that the dealer didn't come through for me, so I saved a big bundle $$$  :lol:.  I should have thanked him for not doing me the service.  So after researching, and some people's + comments on the Sabre chip, I took a chance on the EE DAC.  It paid off huge!  :eyebrows:.  The DAC is now spinning out Bach's violin concertos as I type, with the Mullard CV4003 in the belly.   Wonderful! Wonderful!  What's that, a Jonny Mathis hit!  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: NotoriousBIG_PJ on 21 Apr 2010, 01:11 pm
Is this dac still for sale? I sent an email but never received a response.

Biggie.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 21 Apr 2010, 01:35 pm
Thanks to Shek for turning me into the EE DAC.  It looks like you saved over $1K plus ended up with a highly resolving 32bit dac.  He he he...:thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 21 Apr 2010, 01:58 pm
Is this dac still for sale? I sent an email but never received a response.

Biggie.

Biggie, I talked to Bill over the weekend. I believe the first shipment of the DAC is sold out for now. I think he said he should be getting another shipment the beginning of next month.

I had a chance to live with this DAC for a few days, last week. I came up with a few mods to change the sound of it. I took a listen after the mods and I was VERY impressed. I contacted Bill and Alex and received their blessing to offer mods. Another unit is on the way to me for more research.

Have any of you guys tried swapping the first op-amp? It is being used as a low-pass filter after the DAC chip. I think there could be a lot of fine tuning of the sound by using different op-amps in combination with different tubes. If you do decide to swap the op-amps, make sure you use an IC extractor like one of these:


(http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Aries/Web%20Photos/T90.jpg)

from Digi-key to avoid bending the pins. You also might want to use an IC inserter


(http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265737w345.jpg)

This kit is available from Radio Shack for under $10.00. Make sure you make note of which way the IC is oriented in the socket. It is possible to put them in backwards. They don't really like that   :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 21 Apr 2010, 02:05 pm
Wayne,

You may not want to reveal the mod details quite yet, but I'm curious about your impressions of the stock player as well, and how it compares to other DACs you are familiar with. Could you perhaps post your impressions on the Eastern Electric DAC Reviews thread? Probably more appropriate than this Industry ad thread...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 21 Apr 2010, 02:07 pm
Thanks Wayne for the tip.  I am actually thinking about doing an OPamp swap.  I asked Occam to help on this as he knows lots about OPAmps.  The EE DAC's solid state sound is another option to look into.  That Saber DAC chip is truly a great chip!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 21 Apr 2010, 02:13 pm
Wayne did a few mods to my EE Dac and this thing sounds fantastic.  Huge soundstage, depth and clarity.  Perhaps when he pins down other mods to the power regulators and opamps I'll send it back.  I have been rolling 3 dacs here for the last couple of months and this is now by far the best.  I'll try to list the things Wane did and he can chime in if I missed anything.

Bypass volume control
Add bypass capacitor
Add resonance control pucks to the caps
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 21 Apr 2010, 02:50 pm
Wayne did a few mods to my EE Dac and this thing sounds fantastic.  Huge soundstage, depth and clarity.  Perhaps when he pins down other mods to the power regulators and opamps I'll send it back.  I have been rolling 3 dacs here for the last couple of months and this is now by far the best.  I'll try to list the things Wane did and he can chime in if I missed anything.

Bypass volume control
Add bypass capacitor
Add resonance control pucks to the caps

I see you already use a pre.  Perchance have you tried the DAC as volume control w/o your pre in the loop?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 21 Apr 2010, 03:07 pm
Roscoeiii,

I really did not have much time with the DAC. I did not listen to it stock. I took a look inside and made some suggestions to Bill@LakeGeorge. He did not want to be without his DAC while I was waiting for parts so I did what I could with the parts I had on hand.

I did listen to it after the mods and I feel it is one of the best DACs I have heard. It was one of the few DACs for under $4,000.00 that I thought sounded better than one of my analog modded SBs.

When I get another one, I will be happy to post my thoughts on the stock unit in the appropriate thread.

Big Red Machine,

One of the mods I did was to bypass the volume control from the signal path. This removes a few mechanical connections and a fair amount of wire. You lose some versatility, but you should get some improvements in sound quality. I also bypassed the selector switch as Bill@LakeGeorge only uses the RCA input. I also installed a WBTNextGen RCA connector and I changed some of the wiring for the digital input section.

When I start working on more mods, I'll create a post to talk about them in my circle.

Sorry for derailing this thread a bit.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 21 Apr 2010, 03:08 pm
I did not try that because it sounded so good and switching connections on my system is a major PIA.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 21 Apr 2010, 03:13 pm
I did not try that because it sounded so good and switching connections on my system is a major PIA.

I can attest to that one.  :duh:   :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 21 Apr 2010, 03:17 pm
Roscoeiii,


Big Red Machine,

One of the mods I did was to bypass the volume control from the signal path. This removes a few mechanical connections and a fair amount of wire. You lose some versatility, but you should get some improvements in sound quality.


But if it were the only volume control in the system would I be replicating possible sound issues by adding a tube buffer (Dodd) that has a volume control after bypassing the DAC's vol control?  So am I just robbing Peter to pay Paul IOW?  Or is the vol control in the DAC not up to our "typical" standards (I think someone mentioned it was "digital")?  I like the idea of volume control in the DAC to eliminate other components in the system.  This is why I contemplate the W4S or this DAC.  I'll add the Dodd buffer if I have to if it will be a better vol control.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 21 Apr 2010, 03:21 pm
But if it were the only volume control in the system would I be replicating possible sound issues by adding a tube buffer (Dodd) that has a volume control after bypassing the DAC's vol control?  So am I just robbing Peter to pay Paul IOW?  Or is the vol control in the DAC not up to our "typical" standards (I think someone mentioned it was "digital")?  I like the idea of volume control in the DAC to eliminate other components in the system.  This is why I contemplate the W4S or this DAC.  I'll add the Dodd buffer if I have to if it will be a better vol control.

The volume control in the EE Minimax DAC is analog.  As far as it's quality, I don't know.  But those that are using a volume control in a preamp or buffer would prefer to bypass it and not have the signal go through a second volume control in the DAC.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 21 Apr 2010, 03:24 pm
The EE dac has a very high output gain to it,,, much higher than the other 2 Dac's that Bill is demo'ing and way to high to sound any good for my system. With the volume control at it 5:00 max, I had to turn it down to 3:00 before it was even usable for me. I also felt the lower volume setting made Bill's system sound better, thou he might feel differently. This higher gain was a major stumbling block for me personally so if Wayne was able to tame that and a volume control isn't a nesessity for the users system, I can only see it's removal as a huge plus,, just my opinion.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 21 Apr 2010, 03:39 pm
Still nothing on the Morningstar site on the DAC. Does anyone know the V RMS for this DAC. (I miss the "search this thread" option available in other forums). How much above the CD player standard 2V RMS is it?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 21 Apr 2010, 04:44 pm
Still nothing on the Morningstar site on the DAC. Does anyone know the V RMS for this DAC. (I miss the "search this thread" option available in other forums). How much above the CD player standard 2V RMS is it?

Bill emailed me these specs.  I think they were mentioned somewhere in this thread way back somewhere:

Specification:

Frequency Response: 15Hz-32KHz
Sampling Rates: 32 bit 32KHz 44.1KHz 48KHz  192KHz ( except USB)
Dynamic Range: 129dB
Digital Input Impedance: 75 ohm
Output Impedance: Tube 22K ,  Solid State 10K
Output Voltage: Tube 3V =- 0.5dB,  Solid State  2.5v +- 0.5dB
S/N ratio: Tube 90dB, Solid State 95dB
THD: 0.5% (Tube), 0.02% ( Solid State)
Power consumption:12W

Is that output voltage what you needed?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 21 Apr 2010, 05:05 pm
There is a very good quality pot in it. This could be changed to a stepped attenuator type, if it could be made to fit in the case.

The output level might be able to be reduced with some circuit changes or adding a fixed amount of attenuation at the output jacks.

It all depends on the rest of your system and how you want to use this DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 21 Apr 2010, 09:01 pm
Biggie, I talked to Bill over the weekend. I believe the first shipment of the DAC is sold out for now. I think he said he should be getting another shipment the beginning of next month.

I had a chance to live with this DAC for a few days, last week. I came up with a few mods to change the sound of it. I took a listen after the mods and I was VERY impressed. I contacted Bill and Alex and received their blessing to offer mods. Another unit is on the way to me for more research.

Have any of you guys tried swapping the first op-amp? It is being used as a low-pass filter after the DAC chip. I think there could be a lot of fine tuning of the sound by using different op-amps in combination with different tubes. If you do decide to swap the op-amps, make sure you use an IC extractor like one of these:


(http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Aries/Web%20Photos/T90.jpg)

from Digi-key to avoid bending the pins. You also might want to use an IC inserter


(http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2265737w345.jpg)

This kit is available from Radio Shack for under $10.00. Make sure you make note of which way the IC is oriented in the socket. It is possible to put them in backwards. They don't really like that   :wink:


Wayne ,

Thanks for posting the picture of the tool that is needed to pull the op-amps.
 Needless to say, if you don't have this tool your probably not qualified to change the op-amps :nono: Or if you think you can do as good a job with a needle-nose pliers  :nono: you are mistaken so don't even try it! :nono: :lol:
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 21 Apr 2010, 10:28 pm


Have any of you guys tried swapping the first op-amp? It is being used as a low-pass filter after the DAC chip.

There is a very good quality pot in it. This could be changed to a stepped attenuator type, if it could be made to fit in the case.


Maybe you can kill 2 problems at the same time by using a transformer volume control.

However, I am not sure what can be fitted inside the existing case.  A bigger 2U sized metal case would provide extra room for mods.

I have been listening to this DAC for the past couple weeks, and it sounds good.  Switching between my PC, PS3, and SB Duet is a big bonus.  I actually like the fact that it outputs slightly higher voltage.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 22 Apr 2010, 02:24 am
The EE dac has a very high output gain to it,,, much higher than the other 2 Dac's that Bill is demo'ing and way to high to sound any good for my system. With the volume control at it 5:00 max, I had to turn it down to 3:00 before it was even usable for me.

I have not noticed a gain issue with either a Candella or Modwright SWL.  Perhaps these pre-amps are compensating for the gain?   :scratch:

Wayne - Add me to your list of parties interested in EE DAC mods.  In addition to sound mods, I would be interested in replacing the BNC connector with an RCA/coax (currently using an adapter) as I have two coax sources. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 22 Apr 2010, 02:44 am
 
Quote
In addition to sound mods, I would be interested in replacing the BNC connector with an RCA/coax (currently using an adapter) as I have two coax sources.

AS BNC is a vastly superior connector standard, shouldn't you mod your source instead?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Apr 2010, 02:49 am
I have no issues with the gain as well.  If anything, I want more S/N.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mjosef on 22 Apr 2010, 03:01 am
Quote
Or if you think you can do as good a job with a needle-nose pliers  :nono: you are mistaken so don't even try it! :nono: :lol:
 

I will have to disagree with that statement...while the specific tool will make the process foolproof (or just about), judicious use of a regular snub nose plier can accomplish the same...of course the puller will need to have the right touch, I just changed out 3 OpAmps in my Marchand crossover...no bend pins, no damage to the pulled ICs....just beautiful sweet sounds...   :dance:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 22 Apr 2010, 03:16 am
I just used the back of a hammer head to pry them op-amps out. Works pretty well for nails too. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Apr 2010, 03:30 am
I will have to disagree with that statement...while the specific tool will make the process foolproof (or just about), judicious use of a regular snub nose plier can accomplish the same...of course the puller will need to have the right touch, I just changed out 3 OpAmps in my Marchand crossover...no bend pins, no damage to the pulled ICs....just beautiful sweet sounds...   :dance:



I'll send you the units to repair then! :thumb: :lol: Just because you can pick up a pliers doesn't mean your certified.

 Mjosef, I'm not trying to slam you so please don't take it that way. I just want to warn folks that just because you think you can do it doesn't mean you should necessarily try.

Please, if you haven't performed any work on electronic components this is not the piece to try and dabble into the foray of modifications.Please contact either Wayne at Bolder Cable as I know he is borderline genius with circuits or even Paul Kaplan from Kaplan Cables although I think Paul isn't thinking about doing the extensive mods that Wayne might have in mind.It is worth the small expense to have it done correctly IMHO.

 Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 22 Apr 2010, 03:31 am
I just used the back of a hammer head to pry them op-amps out. Works pretty well for nails too. :lol: :lol: :lol:


:rotflmao:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 22 Apr 2010, 03:33 am
For both extraction and insertion of opamps, I personally prefer chopsticks. :P
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Apr 2010, 03:42 am
Actually, Paul has several tricks up his sleeves.  ;)

Don't mind him, he is teasing.

For both extraction and insertion of opamps, I personally prefer chopsticks. :P
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mjosef on 22 Apr 2010, 03:46 am
Quote
Please, if you haven't performed any work on electronic components this is not the piece to try and dabble into the foray of modifications.Please contact either Wayne at Bolder Cable as I know he is borderline genius with circuits or even Paul Kaplan from Kaplan Cables although I think Paul isn't thinking about doing the extensive mods that Wayne might have in mind.It is worth the small expense to have it done correctly IMHO.

Tru dat Bill...Wayne is a good guy, have had dealings with him in the past, a straight shooter.
As for Paul... :roll: , he bends bullets around objects.  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 22 Apr 2010, 05:08 am

AS BNC is a vastly superior connector standard, shouldn't you mod your source instead?

BNC connectors are new to me, used them once on a computer monitor, but never for audio.  Perhaps I need to rethink this.....  But I am still skeptical of sound improvements for digital signals either the bits make it in tact, or they don't.  There can be no change of the bits or the sound, just drop outs (I have a cheapie optical cable that introduces drop outs, never had a problem with a coax)   :scratch:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 22 Apr 2010, 09:36 am
For both extraction and insertion of opamps, I personally prefer chopsticks. :P

The choppies must be ivory ones, and not cheapie bamboo. :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 22 Apr 2010, 03:26 pm
BNC connectors are new to me, used them once on a computer monitor, but never for audio.  Perhaps I need to rethink this.....  But I am still skeptical of sound improvements for digital signals either the bits make it in tact, or they don't.  There can be no change of the bits or the sound, just drop outs (I have a cheapie optical cable that introduces drop outs, never had a problem with a coax)   :scratch:

Hey!

    BNC is a much preferred connection over the RCA for digital audio. I'm actually surprised that BNC is not used more. :D

    I have the same problem as you with my new DAC of which except BNC and Toslink only. So, I moded my source the Sony SACD/CD changer from the RCA to BNC. Works fine so far when I listen to it for the first time last time... not sure if it was my imagination or what but I feel that there is more detail and etc.  :scratch:

   Talking about digi-cable. I know it sound crazy but they all do sound different too. You'll be surprised of what a good sounding digi-cable can sound in your system. :wink:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 Apr 2010, 04:16 pm
I have to agree with your there Set Man.  Your home made cable surely made a great improvement in Paul K's system.  :thumb:

Hey!

    BNC is a much preferred connection over the RCA for digital audio. I'm actually surprised that BNC is not used more. :D

    I have the same problem as you with my new DAC of which except BNC and Toslink only. So, I moded my source the Sony SACD/CD changer from the RCA to BNC. Works fine so far when I listen to it for the first time last time... not sure if it was my imagination or what but I feel that there is more detail and etc.  :scratch:

   Talking about digi-cable. I know it sound crazy but they all do sound different too. You'll be surprised of what a good sounding digi-cable can sound in your system. :wink:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 26 Apr 2010, 11:13 pm
Hi Shek,

I just got back from Paul K (Occam) and we changed 4x OPAMPS in the DAC.  I think I have the sound that you are looking for.  You may want to talk to Paul about doing the upgrade for your EE DAC.  I love what the OPAMPs upgrade did for the imaging.  It has even better image focus and there seem to have more "air".  That bass!  The SS circuit is also competing with the tube sound. 

Thanks to Paul and Martin.  :thumb:

--Levi

Talk about money, I just thought of this.  I am glad I got this EE DAC.  I was supposed to get an Audio Note, just a kit even.  That would likely have cost me $2K.  Glad that the dealer didn't come through for me, so I saved a big bundle $$$  :lol:.  I should have thanked him for not doing me the service.  So after researching, and some people's + comments on the Sabre chip, I took a chance on the EE DAC.  It paid off huge!  :eyebrows:.  The DAC is now spinning out Bach's violin concertos as I type, with the Mullard CV4003 in the belly.   Wonderful! Wonderful!  What's that, a Jonny Mathis hit!  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 26 Apr 2010, 11:17 pm
Hi Levi (or Occam),

Can you comment on the different op-amps that you tried, and how each affected the sound?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rpf on 26 Apr 2010, 11:18 pm
Hi Shek,

I just got back from Paul K (Occam) and we changed 4x OPAMPS in the DAC.  I think I have the sound that you are looking for.  You may want to talk to Paul about doing the upgrade for your EE DAC.  I love what the OPAMPs upgrade did for the imaging.  It has even better image focus and there seem to have more "air".  That bass!  The SS circuit is also competing with the tube sound. 

Thanks to Paul and Martin.  :thumb:

--Levi

Hey Levi, sounds good. Now you're going to have to come back for a rematch!  :lol:   :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 27 Apr 2010, 12:17 am
Hi Levi (or Occam),

Can you comment on the different op-amps that you tried, and how each affected the sound?

Only Paul would know.

@Rob,

Let's do it when you get your speaker cables.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 27 Apr 2010, 05:11 am
Damn you Levi!  Now I have to get me one of them purty EE dacs....
But I do appreciate the opportunity to evaluate the EE dac for its mod potential, without having to potentially blow up my own kit.
Now if I can just figure out where those electrolytic coupling caps are on the solid state output stage, I can bypass them for increased groovyness.

-Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 27 Apr 2010, 05:14 am
Hi Shek,

I just got back from Paul K (Occam) and we changed 4x OPAMPS in the DAC.

Which opamps were changed to what?  (single or dual opamps).  Were they in I/V stage and/or output stage? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 27 Apr 2010, 05:38 am
Which opamps were changed to what?  (single or dual opamps).  Were they in I/V stage and/or output stage?

Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage. IMO, Alex chose those chips to provide excellent sound at his price point, but generously provided sockets for those cost constrained chips to allow easy swaps for appropriate (by both objective and subjective measures) upgrade chips. I'm not disclosing those chips at this point, as I've more experimentation to do when I get my own dac. But I do know this, the EE dac has great 'bones'.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 27 Apr 2010, 06:10 am
Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.

Pretty standard stock opamps.. 
I would personally immediately move to OPA627 for singles, as I love them for I/V.  Duals become somewhat taste-dependent but I have had great luck using AD8066 on SOIC to DIP adapters in digital gear, especially after OPA627 in I/V  :thumb:  Of course, one can always go with the National or Linear Tech. 

The newer OPA827 or OPA2827 seem quite interesting on paper also..
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 27 Apr 2010, 12:39 pm
Thanks again Paul.  In my book, you are the "king of opamps"!  :lol: :lol: :lol:   You hit the nail on the head on the first try!

I may need to come back for more R & D.  Just a little bit more s/n ratio and I am considering getting rid of my Esoteric CD Player.


Damn you Levi!  Now I have to get me one of them purty EE dacs....
But I do appreciate the opportunity to evaluate the EE dac for its mod potential, without having to potentially blow up my own kit.
Now if I can just figure out where those electrolytic coupling caps are on the solid state output stage, I can bypass them for increased groovyness.

-Paul

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 27 Apr 2010, 12:48 pm
Damn you Levi!  Now I have to get me one of them purty EE dacs....
But I do appreciate the opportunity to evaluate the EE dac for its mod potential, without having to potentially blow up my own kit.
Now if I can just figure out where those electrolytic coupling caps are on the solid state output stage, I can bypass them for increased groovyness.

-Paul

Paul,I'd love to get one in your hands but we are waiting for an IC to be delivered to the factory and that isn't happening till May 5th as the vulcano disrupted are shipping of parts.When they arrive I'll be in touch.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bacobits1 on 27 Apr 2010, 01:07 pm
Maybe I shouldn't bring this up, but why wasn't this stuff voiced in when developing the product?
It doesn't sound like it would add $$ to the product. Alex and Bill both know what they are doing.
Usually it's a price consideration.


D

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 27 Apr 2010, 01:33 pm
Bacobits,

Of course the EE dac is built to a price point. All I can say is that I've never heard a stock dac <$1,000 that sounds anywhere near as good. Obviously, I've not heard them all. Nor have I seen anything at that level with the build quality, both inside and out. That said, the judicious selection of replacement chips costing > 20x as much does bring a significant improvement. This is not a situation of throwing shit up against a wall and seeing what sticks, but rather looking at what the specific requirements are for their intended function and choosing components that bring both measurable improvements as well as subjective bliss. The I/V chip was chosen specifically for its low noise, accuracy and speed, as well as its subjective character. Lawdy, what deep, tight bass, from both tube and solid state outputs, among other things. The output stage opamps were chosen for its extension and lack of sandstate grit. These characteristics come at a price, literally.

FWIW,
Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 27 Apr 2010, 01:40 pm
Bacobits,

Of course the EE dac is built to a price point. All I can say is that I've never heard a stock dac <$1,000 that sound anywhere near as good. Obviously, I've not heard them all. Nor have I seen anything at that level with the build quality, both inside and out. That said, the judicious selection of replacement chips costing > 20x as much does bring a significant improvement. This is not a situation of throwing shit up against a wall and seeing what sticks, but rather looking at what the specific requirements are for their intended function and choosing components that bring both measurable improvements as well as subjective bliss. The I/V chip was chosen specifically for its low noise, accuracy, as well as its subjective character. Lawdy, what deep, tight bass, from both tube and solid state outputs, among other things. The output stage opamps were chosen for its extension and lack of sandstate grit. These characteristics come at a price, literally.

FWIW,
Paul

I don't think the guy has a clue as to what the mod costs can rise to when taking a great sounding component and trying to make it sound better. I would suggest to you Bacobits that you keep an eye on Bolder Cables EE Dac mod thread and see for yourself how the costs can easily double the original cost of the EE Dac. It will make you appreciate what Eastern Electric has done at their cost point.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 27 Apr 2010, 01:57 pm
Okay, okay, I'll order one already!  Somebody give me a head's up on the chips.  I'm equipped to change them out. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 27 Apr 2010, 05:12 pm
Both Alex and I believe our DAC sounds GREAT in its stock form. :thumb:
 Some folks just want to squeeze the last bit of performance out of it.
 Here is the analogy I use.
 Take a 1967 427 hp Camaro. Should I add headers onto it? ABSOLUTELY :lol:
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 27 Apr 2010, 05:15 pm
I must agree.  Anything you add to it, just makes it a personal taste.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 27 Apr 2010, 05:33 pm
I must agree.  Anything you add to it, just makes it a personal taste.

But at a cost. Just adding Hynes voltage regulators to this Dac will probably add $800 alone (my guestimation?),,, practically the cost of the dac itself. But it will w/o a doubt step up the Dac's performance a notch or 3.  8)  It's a pay to play situation for those with the means to step up to the plate.  8)
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 27 Apr 2010, 05:40 pm
As I mentioned anything you ad is simply personal taste. 

For starters, buy the EE DAC from Bill then play around with tube rolling. 

So far, tt costed me $30 for the Mullard CV4003 12AU7 and  Finally, 4x OPAMPs $40 + one good friend who knows what his doing.

Priceless!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 27 Apr 2010, 05:43 pm
As I mentioned anything you ad is simply personal taste. 

For starters, buy the EE DAC from Bill then play around with tube rolling. 

So far, tt costed me $30 for the Mullard CV4003 12AU7 and  Finally, 4x OPAMPs $40 + one good friend who knows what his doing.

Priceless!

Source for the tube?  Upscale?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 27 Apr 2010, 05:45 pm
Yup.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 27 Apr 2010, 10:06 pm
Eastern Electric DAC got a mention on Audio Junkies today. Word is getting out.

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1792/eastern-electric-minimax-tube-dac

Bill, it looks like they got the price incorrect, giving the price of the first airmail batch of $850. unless those arriving by boat are no longer going to be $750. I'd get that corrected, since $750 looks much sweeter than $850...

And they've got a link to your webpage in the write-up, but still no mention of the DAC to be seen there. Would be a shame to discourage any of the rabid DAC consumers out there. I bet some kind, techie AC soul might be able to help you get a quickie announcement or link to your Audiogon ad up on the website...

Hope this mention helps you rake in the sales Bill. Very exciting stuff (he says, biding his time...).
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 27 Apr 2010, 10:44 pm
Eastern Electric DAC got a mention on Audio Junkies today. Word is getting out.

http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1792/eastern-electric-minimax-tube-dac

Bill, it looks like they got the price incorrect, giving the price of the first airmail batch of $850. unless those arriving by boat are no longer going to be $750. I'd get that corrected, since $750 looks much sweeter than $850...

And they've got a link to your webpage in the write-up, but still no mention of the DAC to be seen there. Would be a shame to discourage any of the rabid DAC consumers out there. I bet some kind, techie AC soul might be able to help you get a quickie announcement or link to your Audiogon ad up on the website...

Hope this mention helps you rake in the sales Bill. Very exciting stuff (he says, biding his time...).


 Thanks, I just wrote my webpage guy and asked him to shake a leg. I will have audio junkies correct the price to $750 also.


 Thanks for looking out.

Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bacobits1 on 28 Apr 2010, 12:10 am
Thanks for the heads up on parts costs.
I really didn't think it would go that high on a DAC.
Very familiar with EE equipment at one time my whole system was EE.
Great stuff!

D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: SET Man on 28 Apr 2010, 12:18 am
.....

So far, tt costed me $30 for the Mullard CV4003 12AU7 and  Finally, 4x OPAMPs $40 + one good friend who knows what his doing.

Priceless!

Hey!

    The "one good friend...." part is definitely priceless. :D

     Hmmm.... btw, did you paid for the parts with Master Card? :lol:

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 28 Apr 2010, 12:30 am
Thanks for the heads up on parts costs.
I really didn't think it would go that high on a DAC.
Very familiar with EE equipment at one time my whole system was EE.
Great stuff!

D

You need only keep an eye on Bolder Cable's  Eastern Electric DAC Mod's (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80555.msg768072;boardseen#new) thread to see how fast the pricetag can and will escalate.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: etcarroll on 28 Apr 2010, 12:54 am
Man, I really like this unit when I heard it at Topround's rave, but just blew the last of my 'disposable income' on Luminous Audio Lynx II cables and a pair of Cambre Timbre racks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 28 Apr 2010, 01:17 am
Levi,

Paul bought those op-amps off of E-bay as part of a "bulk buy". At individual pricing, they would go for closer to $20.00 each. For a manufacturer to use those same parts, they would most likely add at least $100.00 to the retail price of the DAC.

Bill has mentioned to me that he would like to have the new V-cap Copper Teflon Film caps installed in his DAC. First, I am not sure they will fit. Second, even if they DO fit, the largest value made may not be big enough. They would have to be used as bypass caps. Maybe using the OIMP caps for the bulk of the value needed. The MINIMUM those caps would cost, parts only, is $300.00. That is just for the tube stage output coupling caps. We have not even gotten close to what the PS regulators might cost.

All kudos to Alex and his team for building a fantastic sounding DAC for a great price. What I am going to try to do is tweak the last bit of performance possible from this unit. Cost not a consideration. Following Bill's simile, the standard BMW or Mercedes cars are very good. They are built to a price point. The M series and AMG cars are all about pure performance, cost be dammed. That is what I am going to try to do.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 28 Apr 2010, 01:35 am
Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 28 Apr 2010, 02:17 pm
Thanks again Wayne.

Clearly there is a huge possibility of hot rodding and gaining profit from upgrading the EE Dac.  However, you are not the only one who can upgrade or can make a cost effective modification to the DAC.  I am sure you are already aware of that.  Just want to put things back into your attention.  A 5.5Liter Mercedes has plenty enough torque for a regular Honda user.  AMG proves to have more engine than the chasis can handle.  Sometimes it is better to build the whole thing from scratch rather than hot rodding a Honda, Acura, BMW or Merc etc.  For me, a simple tube rolling or OPAMP upgrade here and there should do the job.   :lol: :lol:   Besides, the EE DAC sounded good to begin with.  :thumb:




Levi,

Paul bought those op-amps off of E-bay as part of a "bulk buy". At individual pricing, they would go for closer to $20.00 each. For a manufacturer to use those same parts, they would most likely add at least $100.00 to the retail price of the DAC.

Bill has mentioned to me that he would like to have the new V-cap Copper Teflon Film caps installed in his DAC. First, I am not sure they will fit. Second, even if they DO fit, the largest value made may not be big enough. They would have to be used as bypass caps. Maybe using the OIMP caps for the bulk of the value needed. The MINIMUM those caps would cost, parts only, is $300.00. That is just for the tube stage output coupling caps. We have not even gotten close to what the PS regulators might cost.

All kudos to Alex and his team for building a fantastic sounding DAC for a great price. What I am going to try to do is tweak the last bit of performance possible from this unit. Cost not a consideration. Following Bill's simile, the standard BMW or Mercedes cars are very good. They are built to a price point. The M series and AMG cars are all about pure performance, cost be dammed. That is what I am going to try to do.


Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 28 Apr 2010, 05:46 pm
Levi,

IMO, you're viewing this unfairly. I charged you that minimal amount for the parts, as you're a friend, I wanted to see what the dac was capable of, and I happened upon a screaming deal on one of the opamp models. If you think that is anywhere what any rational, competent modder would charge you are sadly mistaken. And frankly, you had no business telling anyone what you reimbursed me. You didn't pay for the mod, not labor, R&D, overhead, or any markup on parts. You reimbursed me for just my out of pocket expenses and to put Wayne in a position where he has to compete against such an off the wall ridiculous 'price'. Wayne will offer the same chip swaps (if not better) and improve the dac in other ways that are far more labor and R&D intensive.

And what do I get out of offering whatever suggestions I can to Wayne?
I get Wayne to do those other non-chip mods on my own dac in exchange. I did the easy stuff, and while it is a substantial improvement, I am more than willing to exchange my efforts for Wayne's expertise to take it beyond that level.

FWIW,
Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 28 Apr 2010, 06:11 pm
Hi Paul, I am truly greatful for all your efforts. I said many time already. We are clear with that.  No gray areas here.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 28 Apr 2010, 06:52 pm
Just wondering: are the single op amps used as low pass filters, while the dual op amps are used for the op amps output stage.  So, if I am using the tube output stage, the dual op amps are not used?

I think it is about time for me to open the case and see what I can do.  After all, I do have some OPA627s sitting inside a box somewhere on the shelf.

Just another thought:  maybe I can relocate the entire power supply to a separate box, in order to gain needed room for interesting mods inside the Eastern Electric case.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 28 Apr 2010, 08:34 pm
I have some great nos rare tubes for this dac, they all sound very very good.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80666.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80666.0)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 28 Apr 2010, 08:48 pm
Maybe Wayne (and others) could consider offering different levels of mods so interested parties can either get the mods done step-wise as resources permitted, or get it all done in one fell swoop!  Just a thought....
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 28 Apr 2010, 08:49 pm
Thanks again Wayne.

Clearly there is a huge possibility of hot rodding and gaining profit from upgrading the EE Dac.  However, you are not the only one who can upgrade or can make a cost effective modification to the DAC.  I am sure you are already aware of that.  Just want to put things back into your attention.  A 5.5Liter Mercedes has plenty enough torque for a regular Honda user.  AMG proves to have more engine than the chasis can handle.  Sometimes it is better to build the whole thing from scratch rather than hot rodding a Honda, Acura, BMW or Merc etc.  For me, a simple tube rolling or OPAMP upgrade here and there should do the job.   :lol: :lol:   Besides, the EE DAC sounded good to begin with.  :thumb:




And what is wrong with hot rodding a Honda ? something wrong with the factory radio. Nothing that 5-8 grand can't fix  :lol:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1630
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pixy on 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm
Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage. IMO, Alex chose those chips to provide excellent sound at his price point, but generously provided sockets for those cost constrained chips to allow easy swaps for appropriate (by both objective and subjective measures) upgrade chips. I'm not disclosing those chips at this point, as I've more experimentation to do when I get my own dac. But I do know this, the EE dac has great 'bones'.

Regards,
Paul

Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm
Maybe Wayne (and others) could consider offering different levels of mods so interested parties can either get the mods done step-wise as resources permitted, or get it all done in one fell swoop!  Just a thought....

I do intend to offer different levels of mods. This would be better off being discussed in the mod thread, I believe.

Eastern Electric DAC mods (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80555.0)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mjosef on 29 Apr 2010, 12:00 am
Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826

U might need to ask the Mad Hatter that Q...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 29 Apr 2010, 01:57 am
My Grandfather was a hatter on the Lower East Side. And in his dotage, he
actually was quite squirrelly ....

Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826

Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage. IMO, Alex chose those chips to provide excellent sound at his price point, but generously provided sockets for those cost constrained chips to allow easy swaps for appropriate (by both objective and subjective measures) upgrade chips....
That pair of chips used for I/V serve their function for both the tube and solid stated output stages and is critical for either's outputs. As Jon L mentioned previously, the OPA627 demonstrably makes an excellent I/V converter. But by objective measures, certain other, bi-polar input, high precision, low noise opamps should give better measurements. Others, who I respect, are evaluating similarly specified chips from other manufacturers. This is in the vague hope that one might actually extract anything approaching linearity at low levels with 24 bits. Fat chance...

The AD826 would no doubt work quite well. It would certainly be able to drive the heck out of long and/or capacitive cables. But I'm unsure as to whether it would easily allow the removal of the extant output coupling capacitors in the solid state filter/output stage. Its for that reason I've tried fet input duals to replace the pair of NE5532.  Using electrolytics as coupling caps with minimal polarizing voltage is something I'd like to avoid, and the fet-input output opamps should facilitate their removal. Presently, on the modded EE dac, I prefer the solid state output stage ( I already have 5 tubes in my line stage), but hopefully, removing those caps would increase both extension and resolution.

Hope this helps,
Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 29 Apr 2010, 11:39 am
Evan, this just states that I know what I am talking about when I said about modifying cars  ;)

Enjoy your Maverick Dac, perhaps one day you will get a better DAC like an EE DAC.   :lol: :lol: :lol:

Having said that, the USB input with tubes enabled running PC or Mac truly sounds excellent with this dac.  :thumb:


And what is wrong with hot rodding a Honda ? something wrong with the factory radio. Nothing that 5-8 grand can't fix  :lol:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1630
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 29 Apr 2010, 09:06 pm
Evan, I am sorry you failed to understood my point. My experience with modification specially with cars simply state that sometimes it is better to live them alone. A Modified Honda is still a Honda. Suspension mods make them handle really well. But a A $10k turbo engine is far too risky.  Insurance does not cover engine mods and proves to even lower resale value.  A $7k stereo system covered by insurance + it can be extracted for the next car. LOL.   

As for Wayne, Robin and Paul's point, GOOD audio parts can cost exponentially high. Ultimately there is far too much cost cutting that was put into the Maverick dac ($195).

We all want good sound.  In my opinion, you have spend over $1k to beat the EE DAC. It already has a 5.5L engine in it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: evan1 on 29 Apr 2010, 09:11 pm
Evan, I am sorry you failed to understood my point. My experience with modification specially with cars simply state that sometimes it is better to live them alone. A Modified Honda is still a Honda. Suspension mods make them handle really well. But a A $10k turbo engine is far too risky.  Insurance does not cover engine mods and proves to even lower resale value.  A $7k stereo system covered by insurance + it can be extracted for the next car. LOL.   

As for Wayne, Robin and Paul's point, GOOD audio parts can cost exponentially high. Ultimately there is far too much cost cutting that was put into the Maverick dac ($195).

We all want good sound.  In my opinion, you have spend over $1k to beat the EE DAC. It already has a 5.5L engine in it.

Levi

I will not get into it here. You are obviously the one that doesn't understand after putting your foot in your mouth numerous times
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 29 Apr 2010, 09:15 pm
Thanks!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 30 Apr 2010, 05:38 pm
woo hoo!  I just received a pair of Siemens Silver plates in the mail.  Can't wait to give them a listen.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Carlman on 30 Apr 2010, 06:09 pm

 Thanks, I just wrote my webpage guy and asked him to shake a leg. I will have audio junkies correct the price to $750 also.


 Thanks for looking out.

Bill

Glad that guy finally shook his leg! Sheesh!  ;)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 30 Apr 2010, 07:32 pm
woo hoo!  I just received a pair of Siemens Silver plates in the mail.  Can't wait to give them a listen.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions I just put my pair of Silverplates up for sale because I thought the 1957 Mullard Longplate Square Getter that Bill recommended to me bested it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 1 May 2010, 03:40 am
I'll definitely let you guys know how they sound although my system is about to have a bunch of variables changed at the same time.  I just got a ton of cables for the Nagy's tour. 

I'm conflicted as to what to do.  It would make more sense for me to at least keep my tube (Mullard) the same so I have a baseline for the changes these cables bring, but I wanna start burning in these Siemens' as from the way its been described it may be my end all.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Occam on 1 May 2010, 06:10 pm
Its with a good bit of embarrassment  :oops:  I'd like to correct some erroneous information I posted. The NE5532 dual opamp serves as the I/V for both channels, and its the single NE5534 that serves as the solid state output stage for each channel. My prior comments on the desirability of a precision opamp in the I/V still applies, as does the preference for a fet-input (and/or precision low offset) single opamp to replace the single 5534s to facilitate the removal of the solid state output signal coupling capacitors.

Mea culpa,
Paul
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 6 May 2010, 12:40 am
I've been listening to the Siemens Silverplates for a few days now and they aren't really doing it for me yet.  I haven't given up and will let them burn for a few more days as I didn't like the cv4003s until they were used for about a week straight. 

I'm very curious about those Brimar 13D5s.  I've heard mixed things about their reliability, but most seem to like their sound for preamps.  Anyone try one in the EE?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 6 May 2010, 01:56 am
I'm very curious about those Brimar 13D5s.  I've heard mixed things about their reliability, but most seem to like their sound for preamps.  Anyone try one in the EE?

Umm, yes.

I have been running a Brimar 13D5 in the EE DAC I recently received from Bill.

With the NE5532 in the I/V slot, I liked the Brimar over the stock tube and a JAS GE 5814 I had on hand. I also like it with an OPA2134 opamp.. However, with Paul's preferred dual opamp, I liked the 5814.

The tube and I/V opamp are very synergistic.  You can mix and match all day to get a certain sound. The sound of the tube will also change with some of the circuit mods I am doing. Lots of fun  :D
Title: USB to I2S 24bit/192Khz
Post by: mumford on 9 May 2010, 04:39 am
Just a head-up on a group buy.  This 50 Euro device can be a great upgrade for our EE Dac.  I am pretty sure that the street price for a M2Tech USB to I2S converter is around $150.  So the group buy price is around half.  Please note that a little bit of DIY skills is required, as these DIY guys want a converter with external power supplies.  Tossing in a couple Paul Haynes power regs, you may be looking at the best converter in the market today.


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/group-buys/166354-hiface-usb-i2s-24bit-192khz.html


Here is a link to the 6moon review
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/m2tech/hiface.html

Disclosure:  I am in for 1.
Title: Re: USB to I2S 24bit/192Khz
Post by: Jon L on 9 May 2010, 05:51 pm
M2Tech USB to I2S converter is around $150. 

IMO it's silly having to buy another $150 usb-spdif converter like M2Tech converter for your USB DAC.  Then again, I understand your quandry, wishing your USB DAC came with decent asynchronous USB input to begin with  :duh:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 10 May 2010, 12:51 am
I take it you went another direction, Jon?

Asynch would be nice, but I don't know how many users would really use it.  I know I am content to use a squeezebox device as a transport.

A little off topic, but if a USB DAC is asynchronious, does that negate all of the internal noise of the computer and remove the need for passive cooling/solid state drives?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mumford on 10 May 2010, 03:41 am
I have both a squeezebox duet and a htpc connected to the EE Dac. but the duet would not do higher bit rates.  For 50 euro, it is less than some of you guys spent on one, not a pair, RCA cable, so it is a really cheap upgrade and not much down side risk.


For those who are thinking of spending the money, please read the pdf design file in question (post #3 of thread), as we are talking about an OEM custom product, not the stick commonly available at the retail outlets.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 10 May 2010, 05:55 am

A little off topic, but if a USB DAC is asynchronious, does that negate all of the internal noise of the computer and remove the need for passive cooling/solid state drives?

USB asynchronicity does not have anything to do with isolation from computer noise or removing need for passive cooling/quiet drives.  These things are desirable for PC audio in general, but asynchronous USB does not solve them at all, nor is it meant to. 

Asynchronous USB does mean the DAC controls the data flow from the computer transport and is able to use a local low-jitter masterclock in the DAC, resulting in low jitter.  In non-asynchronous (Adaptive) mode, computer transport controls the data flow and the DAC is doomed to derive the master audio clock from a frequency synthesizer, which is high in jitter. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 May 2010, 01:18 am
I must be the odd duck here, because I think I'm preferring the CV4003 to the Siemens Silverplates.  It's probably just a synergy thing, but the extra warmth and body lends a good bit to musicality.  I'll see what further burn in does as they are NOS, but we aren't there just yet.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 13 May 2010, 01:31 am
I must be the odd duck here, because I think I'm preferring the CV4003 to the Siemens Silverplates.  It's probably just a synergy thing, but the extra warmth and body lends a good bit to musicality.  I'll see what further burn in does as they are NOS, but we aren't there just yet.

 
You are not alone with your thoughts of the CV4003.  :thumb:
 
 

This Dac and it's tube are on loan but I'm sure it's owner is reading this thread, that's the the recommendation Joe.  :thumb:  It's been hit/miss with the 2 Siemens tubes I have on hand. But this Siemens E82CC CV4003 is simply blowing me away.  :duh:  It has all the atttributes of the Mullard but it's clearer, more balanced with sparkling highs and a nice taut bass, and it still retains the Mullard's 3D sound stage depth. I've had it playing 13 hours now I'm going to be hard pressed to shut her down when the NCAA Tourney starts at 6pm.  :lol:  This EE Dac has been a pleasure to demo.  :dance:
 
Oh, did I mention I'm using Joe's Kaplan power cord to good effect on the EE dac? I'll be returning it to you April 24 at Emil's RAVE.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 May 2010, 05:28 pm
Its very nice, I just feel the additional warmth is benefiting my system.  My system errs to the more resolving, less warm side.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 13 May 2010, 05:45 pm
+1

Agreed!

Its very nice, I just feel the additional warmth is benefiting my system.  My system errs to the more resolving, less warm side.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 13 May 2010, 06:14 pm
I must be the odd duck here, because I think I'm preferring the CV4003 to the Siemens Silverplates.  It's probably just a synergy thing, but the extra warmth and body lends a good bit to musicality.  I'll see what further burn in does as they are NOS, but we aren't there just yet.

That's odd.  In my case, I thought the Siemens Silver Plates are warmer vs. the CV4003 leaner and meaner (cleaner mostly, so some would say leaner!).  I actually was sensing the CV4003 the other day to be a bit too lean for my taste in the upper mids area.  For the first time, it didn't "sit" right for me.  The Silver Plates have more in the lower bass area I thought.

May be, it's synergy again? :scratch:  Don't know if it's that I've gotten used to the Silver Plates, it's not so magical as the first sitting.  That's what's wrong with most audio nuts? :duh: :eyebrows:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 13 May 2010, 06:36 pm
Now I'm thoroughly confused.  I guess I'd better plug the Siemens back in and give it more time...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 13 May 2010, 06:45 pm
I tried the silver plates & cv4003.  To me in my system the 1957 Mullard smooth long plate is by far the best.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 13 May 2010, 07:00 pm
I have a bunch of tubes in this family from previous preamp rolling exercises so I am hoping there is something in my treasure chest that works w/o having to start another tedious search.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 13 May 2010, 10:50 pm
I have a bunch of tubes in this family from previous preamp rolling exercises so I am hoping there is something in my treasure chest that works w/o having to start another tedious search.

They all work, now it is just a matter of personal taste.
 Some folks don't like to hear or have to decipher all the options of which tubes or op-amps to use. They would prefer a plug and play DAC.Which in reality the MiniMax DAC is. Just because you can play around with the  different options doesn't mean you have too.It is just advantageous to allow the user the possibility.I happen to be in the camp of being able to tweek to my hearts content. :inlove:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 13 May 2010, 10:55 pm
They all work, now it is just a matter of personal taste.
 
 
 I happen to be in the camp of being able to tweek to my hearts content. :inlove:

Here here!  :beer:

Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: NotoriousBIG_PJ on 14 May 2010, 04:09 pm
Theres 100's of nos 12au7 tubes to choose from. Why stop at mullard vs. silver plate. :P

Biggie.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 14 May 2010, 04:26 pm
I am amazed by how responsive the EE DAC is to tube rolling.  Tube rolling in my other audio gear has not demonstrated this much of a sound difference between tubes. Also, I find that the 12AU7 tubes that work best in the EE Dac aren't a good fit for my PreAmp (Candella), and vice versa.  Currently, my favorite configuration is RCA black plates in the Pre-Amp, and a Siemens in the EE DAC.  I tried a set up with all Siemens tubes (3 in total) and it sounded awful.  Also, Mullards that sound great in the PreAmp, are way too "tubey" in the EE Dac. 

While I am baffled by some of my findings, I have enjoyed the process immensely, and plan to re-evaluate each tube several times in the coming months/years to make sure my findings are accurate.  Its all good.  :thumb:

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 14 May 2010, 05:22 pm
I also like the fact you only need one tube, don’t have to worry about matched pairs.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 17 May 2010, 09:40 pm
Hope this isn't too off topic, but I know a bunch of you are looking for Siemens Silverplates.  I'm willing to sell one of the NOS pair I picked up.  Drop me a PM if interested. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 22 May 2010, 03:54 am
Just an FYI.  I removed the tube and the DAC still works.  Only with the SS circuit that is. :) 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 26 May 2010, 12:14 pm
I've had the dac for a week but only got 15 minutes with it in stock form last night.  For cold out of the box I was impressed with the possibilities.  It throws a wide soundstage which I am happy to have.  I need to dowse the midrange some so between the preamp tubes and the dac tube we have some work to do but I am encouraged.

Also very well built btw.  A solid little package.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 26 May 2010, 01:02 pm
Don't go too crazy over it.  :o  It is a great toy!  :thumb:  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 27 May 2010, 09:52 pm
OK, I love this DAC and paired with my old school philips 963SA it is probably the best, most engaging digital I've heard, but I've gotta ask.

Why the heck am I preferring music sourced by my philips over music sourced by my Squeezebox Touch?  Everyone is doing backflips over how good the touches digital out is, yet the same CDs ripped in lossless don't sound as good as when I'm sourcing with my player...

I can't argue with having a source of sound thats exceeded every digital player I've owned (including some pretty high dollar ones) but I thought the Sabre32 was supposed to make everything pretty much even. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: johsti on 27 May 2010, 10:29 pm
Why the heck am I preferring music sourced by my philips over music sourced by my Squeezebox Touch?  Everyone is doing backflips over how good the touches digital out is, yet the same CDs ripped in lossless don't sound as good as when I'm sourcing with my player...

I can't argue with having a source of sound thats exceeded every digital player I've owned (including some pretty high dollar ones) but I thought the Sabre32 was supposed to make everything pretty much even.

I don't own the EE dac or the Philips transport, but I thought I'd chime about your comment because I had a similar experience comparing my htpc and squeezebox touch.  You might want to double check your squeezebox settings and see if replay gain or any other type of volume normalization is affecting the files playing through the squeezebox.   

The digital output on the touch measures very well and is supposed to output bit perfect.  It's possible that the Philips does indeed sound better, but I would double check the squeezebox settings to be sure.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: slee on 5 Jun 2010, 05:12 pm
Hello everyone, had my E.E. dac for a week now, sound really good.  Just changed to mullard so it's still breaking in.  For anyone connecting to a blue ray player, do you experience a drop in gain?  I have a first gen blue ray Sony.  When I connected the player w/the dac, the signal light lit, but no sound until I increased the volume.  Anyone?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mchuckp on 5 Jun 2010, 05:44 pm
Hello everyone, had my E.E. dac for a week now, sound really good.  Just changed to mullard so it's still breaking in.  For anyone connecting to a blue ray player, do you experience a drop in gain?  I have a first gen blue ray Sony.  When I connected the player w/the dac, the signal light lit, but no sound until I increased the volume.  Anyone?

Only watching movies or CDs as well?  Blurays and DVDs have always had a lower volume comparatively speaking in any system I've ever owned.  I always have lower volume levels on music.  If your case is much more extreme, then not sure.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: slee on 5 Jun 2010, 09:47 pm
Only tried a cd once.  While the output was greater with the cd, it wasn't close to the level I get with my mac.  I'm using aes with the mac and optical for dvds.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 12 Jul 2010, 04:57 pm
Ordered my EE DAC this weekend from Bill
Cant wait to get it broken it!!!!! :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 12 Jul 2010, 05:08 pm
Ordered my EE DAC this weekend from Bill
Cant wait to get it broken it!!!!! :thumb:

Right out of the box it is sweat.  I have so far settled on the Mullard Blackburn tube.  Very close seconds go to the Mazda military tube and the Telefunkens.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 12 Jul 2010, 08:27 pm
For those of you who are not using this DAC as a pre-amp so to speak (and are in fact hooking it up to a pre-amp), where are you placing the volume control knob?  Full volume?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 12 Jul 2010, 08:35 pm
right about three quarter volume for me.  I never really played with it to see where it sounds best, but I liked how the gain matched with my preamp there. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 12 Jul 2010, 09:03 pm
3:00 worked good for me in my system when I was demoing the EE Dac.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Steidl Guitars on 13 Jul 2010, 01:15 am
I keep it at full volume.

I'd push it to 11, if I could :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 14 Jul 2010, 06:09 pm
Big Red thanks for the note on the DAC. This will be my first time tube experience and I googled Mullard tubes and did not see one described as the Blackburn. Is it the miltary spec one?????
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 14 Jul 2010, 06:24 pm
The Blackburn reference is to that particular factory, located in Blackburn, UK, that produced Mullard tubes; I'm not sure how many different factories produced the Mullard tubes.  The etched codes on the tubes indicate which factory the tube was produced at--I believe a B denotes Blackburn for Mullard tubes, but those with much greater knowledge than me can give you better guidance.

I'm seriously considering picking up the EE DAC to give it a try myself.

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: carusoracer on 14 Jul 2010, 07:18 pm
For those of you who are not using this DAC as a pre-amp so to speak (and are in fact hooking it up to a pre-amp), where are you placing the volume control knob?  Full volume?

When I had the Demo DAC, I played around quite a bit with the Output settings. I set the dial at anywhere from 1:00 to 4:30 approximate position on the dial.
I think it is all personal preference and tube/equipment compliment.
Good Luck
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 14 Jul 2010, 11:36 pm
Thanks all.  Pretty sure I'm going to order an EE DAC from Bill by the end of the week.  I'm a tube newb so can anyone summarize what replacement tubes have sounded best in their system and where they can be found?  Friend suggested The Tube Store, but there are a ton of tubes that fit this DAC and I have no idea where I should start.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 14 Jul 2010, 11:45 pm
This thread is so long at this point, and many are interested in the sound of different tubes in the DAC. Perhaps a tube rolling thread for this DAC should be started? And when able, people can comb through this thread to get all the tube advice offered here and migrate it over to the tube-specific thread?

Worth doing?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 15 Jul 2010, 05:27 pm
Roscoe3rd
as a tube newbe I would like to to see a topic on EE DAC tube rolling so I support
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Cyan on 24 Jul 2010, 02:40 pm
Any chance to see this dac with headphone amp integrated?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 24 Jul 2010, 02:43 pm
Cyan,

 Not at the moment. sorry.



 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: JDarby - Stereomojo.com on 1 Aug 2010, 06:01 pm
Hi guys.

Just got the EE DAC from Bill yesterday for review. I googled the DAC to find out more info on it and saw this thread. I didn't know it was so "hot", but since it is I'm going to fast track the review.

While I can't break my own rule and post the outcome of any review anywhere, (besides right now it's an incoming, not an outcome). I wish some of you would write us when you find something you think is a real gem - you guys are the best at it on the planet, I think. We will jump on it. It's always interesting when we contact a company and tell them we've had a number of requests for reviews of their product.

I think i can say that i was more than a little surprised at how good it sounded right out of the box. It's a new unit with no hours on it, but it did not have the usual grain and congestion of pre-burned-in units. I did subject it to 4 hours of burn in (non listening) using various burn-in tracks and 24/192 music. Linda and I started at about 9 PM last night and ended up at 1 AM. I'm anxious to hear what this sounds like with 100 or so hours on it. It's also playing right now. The DAC is substituted for is the PS Audio Perfect Wave at the moment.

Have you guys found what the ideal burn in time is? There's nothing about it in the manual. (We actually DO read the manuals before we set stuff up).

I read some of the posts, but i didn't want to read TOO many so as to not color my impressions. Has there been any kind of consensus of what the favorite tube to roll into it is? I'll try to find one or two of the favs here.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate what you  guys do for the audio community!

JD
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 1 Aug 2010, 06:07 pm
From my april 3 demo'ing period:
 
 

This Dac and it's tube are on loan but I'm sure it's owner is reading this thread, that's the the recommendation Joe.  :thumb:  It's been hit/miss with the 2 Siemens tubes I have on hand. But this Siemens E82CC CV4003 is simply blowing me away.  :duh:  It has all the atttributes of the Mullard but it's clearer, more balanced with sparkling highs and a nice taut bass, and it still retains the Mullard's 3D sound stage depth. I've had it playing 13 hours now I'm going to be hard pressed to shut her down when the NCAA Tourney starts at 6pm.  :lol:  This EE Dac has been a pleasure to demo.  :dance:
 
Oh, did I mention I'm using Joe's Kaplan power cord to good effect on the EE dac? I'll be returning it to you April 24 at Emil's RAVE.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 12 Aug 2010, 11:30 pm
I just got the EE DAC in yesterday, so its got just under 24 hours on it.  Right now I'm running with a Siemens ecc82 (not the silver plate).

Hooked up to my 300B SET amp and DA-RMa spkrs, this little guy is making quite a positive impression on me!

My thought was that the EE would likely find its way into my wife's/bedroom system, but its showing lots of promise...... :o!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 19 Aug 2010, 07:59 pm
I just got the EE DAC in yesterday, so its got just under 24 hours on it.  Right now I'm running with a Siemens ecc82 (not the silver plate).

Hooked up to my 300B SET amp and DA-RMa spkrs, this little guy is making quite a positive impression on me!

My thought was that the EE would likely find its way into my wife's/bedroom system, but its showing lots of promise...... :o!

Good news. So is the DAC still in your main system?

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 19 Aug 2010, 08:28 pm
Hi DC,

Yep, still in the main system for now; right at 200 hours on it now, so should be pretty well burned in.  I'm still very impressed with it; presentation is different than the MW Transporter......the MW may be a bit, and I mean a tiny bit, smoother, but in my system the EE has better bass extension, more detail (maybe why the MW Transporter sounds 'smoother') and a taller soundstage......I haven't even tried the USB input yet, I'm feeding its bnc input from my JKeny box modded HiFace.

Best,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: doctorcilantro on 20 Aug 2010, 01:34 pm
Randy - have you tossed in the E80CC yet if it was ultimately approved by Alex or Bill?

Now that you have some hours on the unit, I'm excited to see if this roll has a noticeable impact.

j
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 20 Aug 2010, 01:49 pm
Hi Bill,
This is maybe a strange question (I don't have an EE DAC yet, but hope to in a few weeks)

I had tried some La Radiotechnique 12AU7s in my preamp and really liked the sound, until the 12AX7s that come after it in the circuit started failing. Thinking it was the 12AX7s, I swapped a few different ones in there and they kept failing. I replaced the Radiotechniques and have had no problems with the 12AX7s since, so I assume it was the Radiotechs that were frying the 12AX7s over time.

Question - If a tube that is slightly out-of-spec (or even "bad") is used in the EE dac, is there anything downstream of the tube that could be fried?

I'd like to try the Radiotechs in my future EE dac and would like some guidance as the fry-ability of downstream components.

Thanks

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 20 Aug 2010, 01:56 pm
Randy - have you tossed in the E80CC yet if it was ultimately approved by Alex or Bill?

Now that you have some hours on the unit, I'm excited to see if this roll has a noticeable impact.

j

I rolled the philips miniwatt ecc80 into the dac (Bill and others have really liked the Valvo ecc80 as I recall); frankly I didn't like the sound--it lost its soul and became more electronic/hifi to me....I left it in overnight and listened more the next day, but didn't hear any noticeable improvement, so haven't had it back in the dac for a few days.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 20 Aug 2010, 02:20 pm

The EE Dac sounds truly good using the USB input straight from the computer.  Its' USB input along with the tube buffer sounds much better than my PS Audio DAC.  EE DAC owners should try the USB input.  It is sweet!

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 20 Aug 2010, 02:37 pm
The EE Dac sounds truly good using the USB input straight from the computer.  Its' USB input along with the tube buffer sounds much better than my PS Audio DAC.  EE DAC owners should try the USB input.  It is sweet!

Can it accept hi rez and handle it?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 20 Aug 2010, 02:53 pm
The USB input on the EE DAC is NOT as good as just the coax input. It does run through a PCM2706 chip first, before it gets to the Sabre chip. This will limit you to 16 bits @ 48kHz. Dynamic range, channel separation and distortion all would not be as good as the coax input.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 20 Aug 2010, 03:07 pm
That's how I run my MacBook Pro at 16/48kHz.  I don't have Hi Resolution files. 

Needless to say, I am happy with it when I compared it to my PS Audio DAC III via USB.   
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 20 Aug 2010, 03:51 pm
The USB input on the EE DAC is NOT as good as just the coax input. It does run through a PCM2706 chip first, before it gets to the Sabre chip. This will limit you to 16 bits @ 48kHz. Dynamic range, channel separation and distortion all would not be as good as the coax input.

+1   Its a very nice feature having the usb input capability, but coax or AES/EBU or even optical sound better. 

On a side note, has anyone else found this dac to be pretty sensitive to coax cables?  I didn't expect to hear as much of a difference between them as I can given the Sabre32 dac.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 21 Aug 2010, 12:38 pm
Hi Bill,
This is maybe a strange question (I don't have an EE DAC yet, but hope to in a few weeks)

I had tried some La Radiotechnique 12AU7s in my preamp and really liked the sound, until the 12AX7s that come after it in the circuit started failing. Thinking it was the 12AX7s, I swapped a few different ones in there and they kept failing. I replaced the Radiotechniques and have had no problems with the 12AX7s since, so I assume it was the Radiotechs that were frying the 12AX7s over time.

Question - If a tube that is slightly out-of-spec (or even "bad") is used in the EE dac, is there anything downstream of the tube that could be fried?

I'd like to try the Radiotechs in my future EE dac and would like some guidance as the fry-ability of downstream components.

Thanks

-Mike


HI Mike,
 I just can't imagine why you would even try to use a possible (out of spec) or possible bad tube in the DAC. Your preamp would do its thing while the amplifier would amplify your bad tube right into your speakers. A sure recipe for disaster.
 I always like to try to use matched halves in tubes as this way both channels see the same matched signal from the tube(speaking dual triode/12au7's)

Later,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 21 Aug 2010, 12:50 pm
I rolled the philips miniwatt ecc80 into the dac (Bill and others have really liked the Valvo ecc80 as I recall); frankly I didn't like the sound--it lost its soul and became more electronic/hifi to me....I left it in overnight and listened more the next day, but didn't hear any noticeable improvement, so haven't had it back in the dac for a few days.
    I'm fairly certain your mention of the E80CC as a ECC80 was just a slight recollection mistake.
 I'm not sure what the ECC80 tube is so do not use this tube.
The E80CC on the other hand is a substitute you can use in the DAC. My preferred vintage of this tube is the pinched waist D getter wire version. Very dynamic grunt low sound with fleshy midrange but the highs can be a little etchy.  As always system dependent whether or not it is your cup of tea for tube substitution in the MiniMax DAC.

Have a great weekend,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 21 Aug 2010, 06:55 pm
You are right Bill; I transposed the numbers. I received a pair of Valvo red label gold pin E80cc's yesterday and I've only listened to it a bit but it is definitely promising.

I continue to be very impressed with the EE DAC!

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 31 Aug 2010, 11:43 pm
Hi Bill,

Do you have units in stock?  My trigger finger is gettin' twitchy.

If not next shipment is expected when?

Thanks

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 31 Aug 2010, 11:58 pm
Bill has placed an Audiogon ad that is new today.
 
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1288391142&/Eastern-Electric-Minimax-tube/ (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1288391142&/Eastern-Electric-Minimax-tube/)
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 1 Sep 2010, 12:14 am
Hi Bill,

Do you have units in stock?  My trigger finger is gettin' twitchy.

If not next shipment is expected when?

Thanks

-Mike



Hi Mike,

Shipment arrived a couple of days ago, sorry but I didn't see this message earlier otherwise I would have commented sooner.

 Thanks Steve for watching out. much appreciated.
 Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 1 Sep 2010, 01:08 am
Sheesh, Bill, you took all of like one hour to get back to me, so no sorries needed!

Thanks for the info!

-Mike

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 3 Sep 2010, 02:23 am
Just ordered mine
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ltr317 on 3 Sep 2010, 02:25 am
Just ordered mine

Congrats Mike.  :thumb:  Now don't go tube rolling so fast.  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 5 Sep 2010, 01:27 pm
I got my DAC several weeks ago and I am very very pleased with the build and sound. Both my wife and I prefer the tube to the SS. The SABRE chip beats my AKM chip in my Slimdevice transporter hands down. This is the first bit of tube gear that I have owned and would like to do some tube rolling. First of all what is the make of the standard EE DAC tube? I dont  want the sound to be any "warmer" but would like to try a tube that gives the mids and highs a lift. I would welcome any suggestions. Also I assume when you replace the tube that you simply pull not twist it out of the socket and insert the new tube (power off of course).

thanks
David
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 5 Sep 2010, 03:19 pm
the 12au7 that comes in the unit is a Chinese Shunaung.  Replace it!  The DAC will respond very positively.

If you're interested I've got an extra Mullard CV4003 and a NOS Siemens Silverplate.  I think those are the two most popular tube choices for the EE DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 5 Sep 2010, 03:37 pm
+1 on Gopher's comment about rolling in another tube.  Really enhances the sound out of it.  Personally, I went with this Mullard http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Mullard-Old-Logo-12AU7ECC82_p_247.html (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Mullard-Old-Logo-12AU7ECC82_p_247.html) and have been thrilled with the resulting sound.  Another one that seems to be somewhat popular and may not be quite as dark is this one.......http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Cifte-12AU7WA_p_36.html (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Cifte-12AU7WA_p_36.html)

As for taking the tube out, yes you want to pull it straight out and not twist it.  There is a tube retaining clip on there though that will need to be twisted a quarter turn.  I think that's talked about in the instructions..........
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 5 Sep 2010, 04:23 pm
Gopher and Kinger
thanks for the responses and Gopher the offer of the tubes. I will have a look at the links and may come back on the offer. I really like the DAC and look forward to hearing it with a new tube. By the way have you all toyed with the volume setting. I am currently running mine just a bit backed off from full volume. Also I only had an optical connect and will be moving to a coax connection from Blue Jeans cable
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 5 Sep 2010, 04:35 pm
+1 on Gopher's comment about rolling in another tube.  Really enhances the sound out of it.  Personally, I went with this Mullard http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Mullard-Old-Logo-12AU7ECC82_p_247.html (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Mullard-Old-Logo-12AU7ECC82_p_247.html) and have been thrilled with the resulting sound.  Another one that seems to be somewhat popular and may not be quite as dark is this one.......http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Cifte-12AU7WA_p_36.html (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/Cifte-12AU7WA_p_36.html)

As for taking the tube out, yes you want to pull it straight out and not twist it.  There is a tube retaining clip on there though that will need to be twisted a quarter turn.  I think that's talked about in the instructions..........


Been using the Mullard CV4003 but I'm going to give the Cifte 12AU7WA a try.





Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 5 Sep 2010, 04:42 pm
David,

  Buy Gopher's Siemens Silverplate 12au7 would be my suggestion, the highs and mids you are looking for can be found in that tube.


 Have a great Holiday weekend!
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: David C on 5 Sep 2010, 05:03 pm
Bill
thanks and I have PMed Gopher. Labor day is one of my fav holidays but living in the UK not one I can take off (as you can imagine 4th of July is also not big in the UK for obvious reasons). I hope you get some time off and enjoy. The DAC has been really great and a first class service from you. Great build quality and wonderful sound. I have my eye on one of your amps but need to wait until I return in May. Thanks for shipping the DAC to my neighbors at our retirement home in SC. Everything worked out great. By the way it is difficult to follow all the threads but what is your favorite interconnect to the DAC??? and any adivce on where to run the volume control.

thanks again David
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 5 Sep 2010, 06:08 pm
Running mine at full volume and with a coax connection.  In my particular system, I didn't notice any change in sound (other than less volume) at settings less than full.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 5 Sep 2010, 11:33 pm
I didn't read through the whole thread, so please excuse me if this is redundant, but I really wish there was a version of the EE DAC with balanced outputs!!!  Is there?  Is there a mod for going to balanced --- for TRUE balanced outputs, not a "one side grounded" adapter type thing?  Thanks to anyone who can help.
-Tommy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 6 Sep 2010, 03:41 am
Tommy,

 As of right now there is not a balanced version but in the future it will be possible. How far away that is I just don't know but we have had a couple requests for throwing a few different things into the DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Tbadder1 on 6 Sep 2010, 11:09 pm
I'm another who would jump immediately if a fully balanced version appeared. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: AmpDesigner333 on 6 Sep 2010, 11:40 pm
I'm another who would jump immediately if a fully balanced version appeared.
Also looking to skip the preamp???
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Tbadder1 on 7 Sep 2010, 03:01 pm
Yeah, I've always been slightly suspicious of preamps and currently run a passive that I'm very happy with, and since I've always been a single source guy, I don't know that I need a pre.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 7 Sep 2010, 03:33 pm
Congrats Mike (MFSOA) on your new EE Dac! 

The EE DAC is made to fit an specific price point.  It can be made to sound better more/less feature...just be ready to pay for the that.  Ask Wayne. ;)

@Tommy, perhaps modify it for our friend Mike. LOL!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 7 Sep 2010, 11:36 pm
OK, I've tried a number of tubes in the last few weeks; my favorites to date have been just a regular Siemens, a long plate Mullard (can't read the etched codes well enough to guess its vintage) and a Brimar 13D5. 

I've got a Siemens silverplate, but it hasn't been able to totally win me over yet; kinda of the same with the Valvo red label gold pin E80CC.  I stumbled across a Mullard gold pin 10M (Master Series) 12au7 and put it in today....I've only listened an hour or so now, but I think I've found my new favorite!!  It seems to combine the best points of the Siemens (detail and extension), while retaining that smooth Mullard midrange to die for  :)!  Plus, I think its the soundstage champion of all the tubes I've tried so far.

The great news is that this one didn't cost much comparatively, certainly less than the Siemens silverplates go for; the bad news is that they seem to be pretty hard to find and are pricey when you do find them.  But if any of you have a chance to try one of these, I highly recommend it.

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 8 Sep 2010, 12:03 am
Got it tonight.
I'm really going to wait before tube rolling...
waiting...
waiting...
OK it's been an hour, time to put an RFT in there.
Much better right away, cool
-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ltr317 on 8 Sep 2010, 04:49 am
OK, I've tried a number of tubes in the last few weeks; my favorites to date have been just a regular Siemens, a long plate Mullard (can't read the etched codes well enough to guess its vintage) and a Brimar 13D5. 

I've got a Siemens silverplate, but it hasn't been able to totally win me over yet; kinda of the same with the Valvo red label gold pin E80CC.  I stumbled across a Mullard gold pin 10M (Master Series) 12au7 and put it in today....I've only listened an hour or so now, but I think I've found my new favorite!!  It seems to combine the best points of the Siemens (detail and extension), while retaining that smooth Mullard midrange to die for  :)!  Plus, I think its the soundstage champion of all the tubes I've tried so far.

The great news is that this one didn't cost much comparatively, certainly less than the Siemens silverplates go for; the bad news is that they seem to be pretty hard to find and are pricey when you do find them.  But if any of you have a chance to try one of these, I highly recommend it.

Randy


Did you buy the Mullard 10M/gold pins from me? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Audioclyde on 8 Sep 2010, 11:18 am

Did you buy the Mullard 10M/gold pins from me?

No; it came from a hobbyist in Canada.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: jkelly on 8 Sep 2010, 09:17 pm
On a MAC with Itunes - do I need a driver to get digital out on the USB port?

Jeff
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wig on 11 Sep 2010, 03:28 pm
 Guys,

 Needing your tube recommendation for my system for my EE Dac? I have tried Mullard CV4003, 1960ish GE Triple Mica 5814 and 1960ish Telefunken smoothplates when I had my Belles 21A and the smoothplates were fabulous, detailed with rock solid imaging. The GE came in second with the Mullards closely behind, they just lacked the bass and imaging the smoothplates had. Will be rolling my tubes whan I receive my unit and it breaks in.  I have some Jans 5814A ECG 8739, wonder if they are better than stock?

 Thanks,
 Wig :D

 Herron VTSP-3A Neutral Tube Pre with detail
 Herron M1 Mono solid state amps with the liquidity of tubes
 Ayon CD2 Tube CD Player
 EE Dac
 Avalon Ascendant

 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 15 Sep 2010, 01:16 pm
EE dac review, with cleavage:

http://www.stereomojo.com/Eastern%20Electric%20MiniMax%20DAC%20Review/EasternElectricMiniMaxDACReview.htm (http://www.stereomojo.com/Eastern%20Electric%20MiniMax%20DAC%20Review/EasternElectricMiniMaxDACReview.htm)

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: coke on 15 Sep 2010, 02:28 pm
I placed an order for one earlier this week. I can't wait, and after reading that review I'm even more excited  :thumb:

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 15 Sep 2010, 03:01 pm
I placed an order for one earlier this week. I can't wait, and after reading that review I'm even more excited  :thumb:

It is sweet.  I found the SS mode to be bland.  it will be easy to find a smoother tube than the stock, which isn't really bad to start with.  I have big fingers so reaching into that small space to pull out the tube is a problem for me. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: JLM on 15 Sep 2010, 03:17 pm
On one hand it's disappointing that there isn't much difference between tube and solid state, but on the other hand good tube and good solid state should sound similar.  (And as the state of art advances they do.)

What I really like about the EE DAC is the volume control, so I can save a pre-amp and another set of interconnects.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wig on 15 Sep 2010, 03:57 pm
 Mine is scheduled for delivery tonight and I can't wait!

 Wig :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 18 Sep 2010, 01:10 am
I've been interested in this DAC for a while but I have a few niggles. I don't want to be a party pooper, I'm probably over thinking this and in the end what really matters is the sound but...

Why the preamp section? Most people already use a preamp and from what I gather there's no option of bypassing it. In addition to adding costs couldn't this extra circuitry potentially degrade the sound.

Somebody mentioned the SS output was "bland". Would this imply that the ESS chip inherently sounds sterile and that the tube output colors the signal making things sound more...pleasant? If so why even bother with the SS output?

Seems to me that the $750 price point could still have been met with balanced outputs and a better USB chip by omitting these.   

I'm probably going to order one anyway but nonetheless... :? 

 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tabrink on 18 Sep 2010, 01:30 am
IMAC via Pure Music or M1 Piano using Brimar 13D5 here in my MiniMax DAC.
 Big step in sound fed into my MiniMax PRE into two Virtue Sensation 901s and out to Omega SuperHemps.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 18 Sep 2010, 02:37 am
I've been interested in this DAC for a while but I have a few niggles. I don't want to be a party pooper, I'm probably over thinking this and in the end what really matters is the sound but...

Why the preamp section? Most people already use a preamp and from what I gather there's no option of bypassing it. In addition to adding costs couldn't this extra circuitry potentially degrade the sound.

Somebody mentioned the SS output was "bland". Would this imply that the ESS chip inherently sounds sterile and that the tube output colors the signal making things sound more...pleasant? If so why even bother with the SS output?

Seems to me that the $750 price point could still have been met with balanced outputs and a better USB chip by omitting these.   

I'm probably going to order one anyway but nonetheless... :?

Yep, you're overthinking it.  I believe that most who purchased this were interested in a tubed dac primarily and only a handful will ever use the SS circuit or the preamp volume control features.  Can't please everyone but sure, I would prefer no volume control and balanced outputs.  Maybe next version?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: stefan534 on 21 Sep 2010, 03:55 am
I think there
Yep, you're overthinking it.  I believe that most who purchased this were interested in a tubed dac primarily and only a handful will ever use the SS circuit or the preamp volume control features.  Can't please everyone but sure, I would prefer no volume control and balanced outputs.  Maybe next version?

I think there will be plenty of people at this price point wanting to plug straight into a power amp, myself included.

Does anyone know when the next batch of Minimax are arriving? Cheers, Stefan
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wig on 26 Sep 2010, 04:35 am
 Guys,

 Have any of you discovered that the EE Dac sounds better with the phase switch lit red? Also, the silverstar hi-fi fuse definitely made a difference!

 Wig :green:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 26 Sep 2010, 02:27 pm
Oh baby! Kicks some but when red!
Listening to Peter Frampton right now and green is not good!
Red is most definitely where it is at!
One of the biggest improvements you can make. :duh:
If is not GREEN, RED ORANGE, GREEN you may as well just turn it off!

??? Doesn't the red LED indicate tube output?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tabrink on 26 Sep 2010, 02:41 pm
Tube is orange!!!  :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 26 Sep 2010, 09:59 pm
Wig - Could you elaborate as to why you like the phase switch in the red as opposed to the green?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 27 Sep 2010, 09:52 pm
Hi Bill,
Can you please comment on the output impedance of the dac? The manual lists it as 22K for tube, 10K for SS.

I'm no engineer and I don't even play one on TV, but aren't these values kinda high for a source?  Has anyone ever reported issues with driving an amp directly from the dac? 

Can anyone tell me the output impedance for a "typical" CD player (whatever that is?)

Isn't the 22K output impedance actually higher than the input impedance of many amps? I think you'd be hard-pressed to maintain the optimal 10:1 input:output ratio I see recommended.

I ask just out of curiosity as I use an active pre and the sound is still friggin amazing.

But just wonderin'...

Thanks

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mjosef on 27 Sep 2010, 09:56 pm
Mike I was thinking the same thing...lets see what the answer brings.
Most cd players o/I is under 1K...my CA 540C is under 100 ohms.

I also noticed that the volume pot is directly feeding the output RCAs.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 27 Sep 2010, 10:07 pm
Hey great minds, ya' know... :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 27 Sep 2010, 11:09 pm
Yes, the output impedance is high but Alex says it really isn't a problem.

 But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: stefan534 on 1 Oct 2010, 01:21 pm
Hi Bill,
Can you please comment on the output impedance of the dac? The manual lists it as 22K for tube, 10K for SS.

I'm no engineer and I don't even play one on TV, but aren't these values kinda high for a source?  Has anyone ever reported issues with driving an amp directly from the dac? 

Can anyone tell me the output impedance for a "typical" CD player (whatever that is?)

Isn't the 22K output impedance actually higher than the input impedance of many amps? I think you'd be hard-pressed to maintain the optimal 10:1 input:output ratio I see recommended.

I ask just out of curiosity as I use an active pre and the sound is still friggin amazing.

But just wonderin'...

Thanks

-Mike


Yes, the output impedance is high but Alex says it really isn't a problem.

 But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.


Just to add another opinion to the mix -  6moons review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

Quote
Direct drive: With a 2.5 or 3V max signal strength via its transistor/tube outputs respectively, the MiniMax should drive the vast majority of commercial amplifiers to full power - even my 3V input sensitivity white Trafomatic Audio monos. Because its attenuator operates in the analog domain like most quality preamps, direct drive won't incur resolution decimation at very low playback levels. Naturally there's no additional gain from active preamp circuitry but for many systems without analog sources, the MiniMax DAC could indeed replace a preamp. Here it becomes preferable to converters which offer digital attenuation exclusively.

If anyone can explain in laymens terms why some people are talking about output impedance and Srajan is only interested in voltage I'd appreciate it! I take it Mike, you were worried that the Minimax DAC might be a little underpowered to drive a power amp directly?

My concern would be the opposite. I'm hoping to plug it straight into a Quad99 ( solid state) power amp. I generally have to sources down when I plug them in. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax would allow me to turn down the volume without loss of quality usually associated with turning down volume on my PC. ( which will be feeding the DAC)

Cheers, Stefan
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mfsoa on 1 Oct 2010, 01:48 pm
No worries for me as I'm using a tube pre after the EE dac anyway. I did briefly try the dac directly into the DAC Cherry+ amp and it sounded very good for sure. But I need the switching and it sounds better to me through my pre.

-Mike
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 1 Oct 2010, 02:03 pm
Congrats on the EE Dac Mike.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 1 Oct 2010, 03:57 pm
So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 1 Oct 2010, 04:17 pm
So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?

You're not hallucinating as it certainly sounds interesting.  I have no preamp right now so can't do any serious listening but I tried it once.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 1 Oct 2010, 06:29 pm
So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?

I tried it a few times, once when I first got the EE and just recently after his post, to me it just made the music sound dull and lifeless, no soundstage or depth.  Switching back brought everything back to life.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 1 Oct 2010, 06:38 pm
Have any of you discovered that the EE Dac sounds better with the phase switch lit red?

It is possible that one of your other components is also reversing phase and having the EE DAC on the reverse phase setting returns the system to correct absolute phase and sounds "right".
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: mjosef on 1 Oct 2010, 07:29 pm
Quote
. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax.

Dunno if I would call a Blue Alps "high quality", it certainly is a good volume pot.

As to the reversed phase mode...I found the sound to be somewhat scattered and unfocused. Regular 'green' sounded more coherent IMO/IMS.
What srb posted may apply...different systems...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 1 Oct 2010, 08:19 pm

It is possible that one of your other components is also reversing phase and having the EE DAC on the reverse phase setting returns the system to correct absolute phase and sounds "right".
 
Steve

 Thats's what I think also, not everybody's system is in phase, heck I heard rooms at RMAF that were out of phase.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wig on 1 Oct 2010, 09:26 pm
 All very good points! I never thought of it that way, just thought it was the recording but I'll do more experimenting when I return from vacation since my AES/EBU cable should be broken in by then. I do have the polarity switch on my pre-amp set to B, It provided the cleanest sound before integrating the EE. That may be the reason why it sounds better out of phase. Also, the silverstar hifi tuning fuse really adds more detail and depth.

Wig :green:


Thats's what I think also, not everybody's system is in phase, heck I heard rooms at RMAF that were out of phase.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: cpalcott on 7 Oct 2010, 10:43 am


Just to add another opinion to the mix -  6moons review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

If anyone can explain in laymens terms why some people are talking about output impedance and Srajan is only interested in voltage I'd appreciate it! I take it Mike, you were worried that the Minimax DAC might be a little underpowered to drive a power amp directly?

My concern would be the opposite. I'm hoping to plug it straight into a Quad99 ( solid state) power amp. I generally have to sources down when I plug them in. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax would allow me to turn down the volume without loss of quality usually associated with turning down volume on my PC. ( which will be feeding the DAC)

Cheers, Stefan

I am also curious about this. I f this is not meant to be a preamp that can drive a SS or tube amp directly, then what is the point of adding the volume knob into the chain? Why not just a line level out? Perhaps Alex could chime in. I was about to pick one of these up, but not if I have to have a preamp in the mix as well.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 7 Oct 2010, 11:24 am
I am also curious about this. I f this is not meant to be a preamp that can drive a SS or tube amp directly, then what is the point of adding the volume knob into the chain? Why not just a line level out? Perhaps Alex could chime in. I was about to pick one of these up, but not if I have to have a preamp in the mix as well.

You really need a decent preamp for great, holographic sound.  Remember, this is a dac that just happens to have a volume control, probably for convenience.  It is not a preamp circuit, per se.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: JLM on 7 Oct 2010, 01:26 pm
But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.

You really need a decent preamp for great, holographic sound.  Remember, this is a dac that just happens to have a volume control, probably for convenience.  It is not a preamp circuit, per se.

Impedance matching aside, and noting that I'm running a purist system with only stepped attenuators connected in the back of my solid state monoblocks, what are the disadvantages of not having a pre-amp following the EE DAC?

Conversely, if a pre-amp is so vital, why have a volume control on a (in the greater scheme of things) high-end product?

And seriously, other than being a tube fan, why wouldn't you recommend following the EE DAC with a solid state amp?

Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oneinthepipe on 7 Oct 2010, 02:10 pm
Impedance matching aside, and noting that I'm running a purist system with only stepped attenuators connected in the back of my solid state monoblocks, what are the disadvantages of not having a pre-amp following the EE DAC?

Conversely, if a pre-amp is so vital, why have a volume control on a (in the greater scheme of things) high-end product?

And seriously, other than being a tube fan, why wouldn't you recommend following the EE DAC with a solid state amp?

Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.

A pre-amplifier takes the source's low-level signals and amplifies them to a level that is most useful for an amplifier.  I am merely a consumer, but this appears to be a delicate process.  In my experience, pre-amplifiers have been the hearts of my systems.  A good signal into the pre-amplifier is essential, which is the function of the DAC and the transport or server preceding the DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 7 Oct 2010, 02:59 pm


Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.

It is a superb dac for the money.  Get a nice preamp and enjoy the pairing.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 7 Oct 2010, 04:15 pm
I am wondering if there are synergies using the EE DAC with the EE Pre-Amp?  Can anyone comment on this? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 7 Oct 2010, 10:48 pm
I am wondering if there are synergies using the EE DAC with the EE Pre-Amp?  Can anyone comment on this?

 I believe Gopher is using a MiniMax preamp with his DAC and he has enjoyed the combination. I know I have also, of course I'm biased.
 Although the MiniMax is getting a little long in the tooth these days and I'm waiting for our new fully balanced/RCA  tube preamp called the Avant to arrive in 2 weeks.
 There are some photos in the review of the DAC of the preamp at 6moons. here is the link for those who haven't seen it yet along with our new tube integrated.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac_2.html


 Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 7 Oct 2010, 11:34 pm
I believe around $1550-$1650.Depending how much Customs,taxes and shipping will be.

 Thanks for considering,
Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oneinthepipe on 7 Oct 2010, 11:52 pm
I believe Gopher is using a MiniMax preamp with his DAC and he has enjoyed the combination. I know I have also, of course I'm biased.
 Although the MiniMax is getting a little long in the tooth these days and I'm waiting for our new fully balanced/RCA  tube preamp called the Avant to arrive in 2 weeks.
 There are some photos in the review of the DAC of the preamp at 6moons. here is the link for those who haven't seen it yet along with our new tube integrated.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac_2.html


 Kindest Regards,
 Bill

Bill:

Will there be any pre-release pricing?  Will there be a black faceplate?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 7 Oct 2010, 11:56 pm
Bill:

Will there be any pre-release pricing?  Will there be a black faceplate?

+1 on both questions (oneinthepipe posted whiile I was typing).

Bill - The 6moons article states:  Tube complement is 2 x 12AX7, 5 x 12AU7,1 x 6X4/6Z4.  However, I count only 7 tubes in the picture.  Is this a typo, or is one of the tubes not visible? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 8 Oct 2010, 12:11 am
Bill is correct.  The preamplifier has been a fixture in my system for about five years now...   Time is flying!  Very interesting new additions!  If they maintain the price/performance ratio of other EE gear, they should be knock outs!

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 8 Oct 2010, 12:47 am
You missed counting the rectifier tube on the far right. 8 tubes is correct.

 I know on the first shipment black faceplate is not ordered. Silver only
Let me talk with Alex and see if its a possibility.

 Hadn't considered a pre release pricing as they will be here shortly. Honestly, I have to see what shipping,taxes and Customs charges me first.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Kinger on 8 Oct 2010, 12:59 am
Definitely like the looks of that pre and love the fact that it offers remote control :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rmyers on 12 Oct 2010, 07:02 pm
I recently just received my EE DAC and am absolutely loving it!! :thumb:  Although, as I'm sure most of you understand I'm already thinking about what I can do to squeeze some more performance out of it.  It seems like the consensus is that a Mullard CV4003 is the way to go as far as tube rolling goes, and I intend in giving that a shot soon. 

I was wondering what some of your opinions are about if it is worth getting an asychronous USB/SPIDF converter instead of using the stock USB (isosynchronous) input.  Currently looking into:

1. M2tech hiface
2.  halide bridge
3. the new wavelength usb/spdf

I'm not using any high resolution files, so the fact that the EE only does 16/44 is fine with me, I was just wondering if the mere fact that these converters are asynchronous will be an improvement over the stock USB sound.  Has anyone done the comparison?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oneinthepipe on 12 Oct 2010, 08:19 pm

I was wondering what some of your opinions are about if it is worth getting an asychronous USB/SPIDF converter instead of using the stock USB (isosynchronous) input.  Currently looking into:

1. M2tech hiface
2.  halide bridge
3. the new wavelength usb/spdf

I'm not using any high resolution files, so the fact that the EE only does 16/44 is fine with me, I was just wondering if the mere fact that these converters are asynchronous will be an improvement over the stock USB sound.  Has anyone done the comparison?

John Kenny's modified HiFace is excellent and an improvement over the stock HiFace and a huge improvement over the iMac's USB output.  If you are using a Mac, Pure Music is a big improvement over iTunes, IMO.

Why do you think the EE DAC only does 16/44?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rmyers on 12 Oct 2010, 08:54 pm
John Kenny's modified HiFace is excellent and an improvement over the stock HiFace and a huge improvement over the iMac's USB output.  If you are using a Mac, Pure Music is a big improvement over iTunes, IMO.

Why do you think the EE DAC only does 16/44?

Thanks for the info "oneinthepipe".  What kind of sonic improvements do your hear with the hiface over the stock USB input?  Are you using the RCA or BNC version of the hiface? Thanks
On the 6moons review it says it can go up to 192, but not on USB.  "Alex's choice of USB transceiver is the popular but limited BB PCM2707. That means standard Redbook resolution for streaming files only, not even 24/96. Why not the Tenor chip or an OEM hiFace? "I will address the USB limitations in the next version."
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 12 Oct 2010, 08:59 pm
I'd recommend that you go with a BNC, which is generally more highly regarded for coax digital signals. The BNC can also take advantage of the BNC attenuator mod that jkeny has written about on AC and elsewhere. A very inexpensive way to improve the performance of a hiFace.

I believe that even folks with only an RCA digital input are using the BNC hiFace, an attenuator and then a BNC to RCA adaptor.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 12 Oct 2010, 09:48 pm
Definitely like the looks of that pre and love the fact that it offers remote control :)

If Alex manages sounds like the dac this will be a sweet preamp. 8)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: oneinthepipe on 13 Oct 2010, 04:59 am
Thanks for the info "oneinthepipe".  What kind of sonic improvements do your hear with the hiface over the stock USB input?  Are you using the RCA or BNC version of the hiface? Thanks
On the 6moons review it says it can go up to 192, but not on USB.  "Alex's choice of USB transceiver is the popular but limited BB PCM2707. That means standard Redbook resolution for streaming files only, not even 24/96. Why not the Tenor chip or an OEM hiFace? "I will address the USB limitations in the next version."

I am using the BNC version.  The modified HiFace is much quieter, there is less sibilance, cymbals sound like cymbals, brushes sound like brushes, and there is more space between the instruments. The attenuators further reduce sibilance.  The stock HiFace isn't a slouch but not nearly as good as Mr. Kenny's modified version.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: denjo on 5 Nov 2010, 11:22 pm
Hi EE DAC owners

Can someone please advise me what the dimensions of the DAC is? I have searched the EE webisite and googled but to no avail. I do know that the unit is quite small?

Many thanks for reading,

Pax
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 5 Nov 2010, 11:29 pm
The EE MiniMax DAC is 11" W x 9" D x 3" H.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: etcarroll on 5 Nov 2010, 11:32 pm
But sounds much bigger!   :wink:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 6 Nov 2010, 12:32 am
If Alex manages sounds like the dac this will be a sweet preamp. 8)

 The Avant Preamp's and M88 integrated amps plus the DACs have shipped as of 2 days ago, I should have them by next Friday.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: denjo on 6 Nov 2010, 01:26 am
The EE MiniMax DAC is 11" W x 9" D x 3" H.

Thanks Wayne! That is quite a small footprint!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: carusoracer on 6 Nov 2010, 10:40 pm
The Avant Preamp's and M88 integrated amps plus the DACs have shipped as of 2 days ago, I should have them by next Friday.
:o :o :o :o
My Minimax is just broken in :lol: 4 years later I still luv it! Anxious to hear the new pre.
What is the pricepoint?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 7 Nov 2010, 12:59 am
:o :o :o :o
My Minimax is just broken in :lol: 4 years later I still luv it! Anxious to hear the new pre.
What is the pricepoint?

Tell me about it!  That preamp has been the ONLY constant in my rig for nearly SIX YEARS...  Will be interested in hearing how the Avant does...  Especially now that I have an S-30 amp which favors balanced operation.

Bill,

Has the 'minimax' line been completed?  It looks like Eastern Electric is stepping up their products in terms of target audience a bit. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 8 Nov 2010, 02:37 am
:o :o :o :o
My Minimax is just broken in :lol: 4 years later I still luv it! Anxious to hear the new pre.
What is the pricepoint?

  They are selling in HK for $1533.00  but I have to add shipping at $110.00 and whatever Customs charges which will probably be around $50.00(if it's $100 then $1750.00) so price will be $1700.00
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Celloman on 11 Nov 2010, 04:40 pm
Is it true (or is there an error on the EE website) that the output impedance od the MiniMax DAC are 22Kohms for the tube output and 10Kohms for the SS output ? If it is the case, why so high ? To drive an amp directly, lower is always better, at least lower than 1Kohms...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 11 Nov 2010, 05:55 pm
Its stated earlier in the thread that although it can be used without a preamp, it is not intended to replace one.
Title: Just took delivery of EE Minimax DAC
Post by: denjo on 12 Nov 2010, 04:39 pm
I have just taken delivery of the EE Minimax DAC! I was quite surprised with the small foot print but it feels quite solid and hefty. Still early days but right out of the box I think I am going to like this DAC very much in my system! I can now understand what the buzz has been (with 39 pages of positive comments)! Reading from some other threads about the Sabre sounding sibilant, I was rather anxious if this was also true of the EE Minimax DAC. But thus far I can detect no sibilance. it sounds very smooth and the bass is powerful.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 20 Nov 2010, 06:08 pm
I just wanted to note something here. The EE Min-Max DAC WILL play high-res files up to 24/192 with NO PROBLEM. In reading the review on 6 moons, it was not clear to me if Srajan was able to get it to work properly.

I just ran some files from my laptop to the EE DAC using Foobar 2000 and the M2Tech Hi-Face. I used the BNC input to the DAC. It had no trouble accepting and playing 24/192, 24/176, 24/96 or 16/44.1. There were no dropouts, stuttering or glitches.

If you are looking for a DAC that sounds great playing ALL resolutions, you should consider the EE Mini-Max DAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Myounger on 22 Nov 2010, 11:29 pm
Looking for a good sound card recommendation to use as a output from my shuttle PC to the MiniMax DAC - gettting away from the USB input which is not fully suppport from this unit.

Currently using a Peachtree audio DAC/AMP to a a Dynaco SCA -35 and WOO-WA2 headphone amp
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Tbadder1 on 23 Nov 2010, 02:51 am
Any further news on a fully balanced version?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tz1963 on 23 Nov 2010, 09:47 pm
Hi,

I have had the EE Dac for about half a year now and adore it. Some people on this forum have suggested putting in a hifi tuning fuse, and I thought that might be worth a try.

I am thinking of getting the new Hifi-Tuning Supreme fuse which has just come out. But I have no idea which one to get and how many.

Can anyone help me out with this?

I believe they come in two sizes, are either slow or fast-burning, and have a specific ampere ...

Any suggestions?

Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: NickS on 23 Nov 2010, 10:03 pm
I am thinking of getting the new Hifi-Tuning Supreme fuse which has just come out. But I have no idea which one to get and how many.

Can anyone help me out with this?

Any suggestions?

The fuse you will require is a 5X20mm "small" size with a value of 800mA in a fast blow "F" type.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 23 Nov 2010, 10:06 pm
Look at where the AC power cable attaches to the unit. The fuse is built into the IEC inlet. It requires 800 ma, quick blow, 250 Volt, 5 mm x 20 mm. DO NOT USE anything larger in current rating.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tz1963 on 24 Nov 2010, 09:03 am
Thanks for the quick replies.
I'm going to give it a go.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 28 Nov 2010, 01:24 pm
Anyone want to go halves on a pair of Psvane Reference 12au7-Ts for their DAC?  Waynes endorsement has me curious and I'd like to compare one to my Siemens Silverplate but don't really need 2.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 6 Dec 2010, 05:24 pm
Anyone want to go halves on a pair of Psvane Reference 12au7-Ts for their DAC?  Waynes endorsement has me curious and I'd like to compare one to my Siemens Silverplate but don't really need 2.

I'm willing to do this.  PM me and we can work out the details.

Cheers,
Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 6 Dec 2010, 05:35 pm
Ajay,

Another ACer had contacted me previously and we have a pair on order now.  Sorry.

I will report my finds though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: usp1 on 6 Dec 2010, 05:58 pm
Ajay,

I am willing to join you. PM sent.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tz1963 on 7 Dec 2010, 08:32 pm
Hi,
Has anyone connected the EE Dac straight to a power amp?
I am thinking of getting a Wyred4Sound power amp, which has an impedance of 90ohm (whatever that means  :?).
According to Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons you should be able to drive a power amp directly with the EE Dac, but Bill of Morningstar Audio does not recommend it.
If it was possible, would it also be possible to tri-amp, or would the EE Dac without a preamp not have sufficient power for that? 
Thanks
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: melbguy_357 on 9 Dec 2010, 12:35 pm
Hi,
Has anyone connected the EE Dac straight to a power amp?
I am thinking of getting a Wyred4Sound power amp, which has an impedance of 90ohm (whatever that means  :?).
According to Srajan Ebaen of 6Moons you should be able to drive a power amp directly with the EE Dac, but Bill of Morningstar Audio does not recommend it.
If it was possible, would it also be possible to tri-amp, or would the EE Dac without a preamp not have sufficient power for that? 
Thanks

The wyred4sound amps are 60k Ohm last time I checked. Which particular amp are you after?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: coke on 9 Dec 2010, 01:20 pm
I connected mine directly to a set of these, and it didn't work very well.  From my experience with this, I wouldn't this DAC without a pre.

http://www.swanspeaker.com/products/products.aspx?cid=5&sid=0&pid=24

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Dec 2010, 01:31 pm
I would not connect my EE DAC to my amps and use it as a preamp.  You will be disappointed.  Well that goes without saying unless you have an inferior sounding preamp.  :)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: tz1963 on 9 Dec 2010, 04:43 pm
Thanks for the responses.
I was thinking of the new W4S mulichannel amps.
It does seem like it is not going to work then.
Oh, well. I'll just save a little longer.
Cheers,
T.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 9 Dec 2010, 05:43 pm
The EE MiniMax DAC certainly will have enough voltage output to drive the amps, but the output impedance on the stock EE MiniMax DAC is on the high side. The input impedance on the W4S is also a bit on the low side.

This might be feasible if an active buffer stage was used between them. At the same time, there is not too much cost difference between a very good active buffer and a full featured pre-amp. Many people here are very pleased with the Mini-Max Pre-amp.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 9 Dec 2010, 06:00 pm
Hi All,

 I sent a DAC to Tom Tutay/Transition Audio Design and he took some measurements.
 He measured that the DAC output impedance that we have is incorrect at 22k

 He said with the volume control at full open throttle he measured 7.5 K   and the highest it reached when the DAC's volume control was at the 2 or 3 oclock position was 12k which is the highest the DAC would do. Although still high, this is a lot better number going thru the tube output.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 3 Jan 2011, 03:08 pm
If anyone is looking for a Siemens Silverplate, drop me a PM.

I have a clear preference of the Silverplate over the Pavane in the stock dac, but slight preference for the Pavane in the modded tour unit and am raising funds for some mods of my own.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 3 Jan 2011, 03:42 pm
Did you try the 4003 compared to the Pavane?  I find the stock EE DAC less lively compared to my Esoteric universal player.  EE DAC was great if you listen to slow Jazz songs but with Avril Lavigne and fast paced Cds that I have etc...the stock EE is not as lively.  This has plenty to do with the stock low S/N.  I wonder if the modded one increased the tube's S/N!?!
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 3 Jan 2011, 04:12 pm
Never compared the two, but I preferred the Silverplate to the 4003 by a wide margin.  I think I sold my 4003--I know I meant to, though I don't recall doing so.  But I sure as heck can't find it...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nocrapman on 3 Jan 2011, 04:36 pm
I have ordered a pair of the Pavanes also. If anyone is interested in getting the 2nd tube from the pair, pls PM me.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: andy71 on 7 Jan 2011, 10:00 pm
see this link on op-amp rolling  http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=841

I just go this dac 2 weeks ago and am enjoying it a lot - while also looking for ways to extract more performance for not a lot of money.  I haven't tried the op amp roll suggested nor have i even tried tube rolling but am looking for thoughts and opinions.

Andy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 8 Jan 2011, 02:53 am
I had Wayne from Bolder Cable send me a Acme fuse and Pavane tube, I matched that with an LME49720 op-amp and the sound is getting better every day.  So far, I am really enjoying the change.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 8 Jan 2011, 05:05 am
see this link on op-amp rolling  http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=841

I just go this dac 2 weeks ago and am enjoying it a lot - while also looking for ways to extract more performance for not a lot of money.  I haven't tried the op amp roll suggested nor have i even tried tube rolling but am looking for thoughts and opinions.

Andy


 Warning, I just received my first email from a customer who tried the op-amp rolling that Doug suggested .  Now his DAC has stopped working. He then tried to reinstall the original op-amps. DAC still not working. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid have happen. Now what? He knows he has voided his warranty, but now it is a big pain in my  :nono:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 8 Jan 2011, 05:46 am
Bill,
I would not worry. You have been more than clear that this voids the warranty. Multiple times. And the article mentions the same. It is great that the socketed opamps make things easier for the tinkering types. But since you have been clear that this voids the warranty, tinkerers have been forewarned. I applaud you for offering a socketed design. But you made it clear that those who swapped opamps did so at their own risk. The opamp article made this clear as well IMHO.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: goldlizsts on 8 Jan 2011, 11:39 am

 Warning, I just received my first email from a customer who tried the op-amp rolling that Doug suggested .  Now his DAC has stopped working. He then tried to reinstall the original op-amps. DAC still not working. This is exactly what I was trying to avoid have happen. Now what? He knows he has voided his warranty, but now it is a big pain in my  :nono:

So Bill, let me get it 100% clear, DOES YOU MEAN THAT "ALL" mods, including those tricks mentioned in Wayne's MOD thread, including replacing the fuse, etc..... VOID the warranty?  Somebody is saying I'm putting words in your mouth.  You and I are on good terms, I don't want somebody to ruin this relationship.

Shek
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: JohnR on 8 Jan 2011, 11:51 am
So Bill, let me get it 100% clear, "ALL" mods, including those tricks mentioned in Wayne's MOD thread, including replacing the fuse, etc..... VOID the warranty?

Shek

Where did he say that replacing the fuse voids the warranty? You're putting words into his mouth.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 8 Jan 2011, 05:41 pm
So Bill, let me get it 100% clear, DOES YOU MEAN THAT "ALL" mods, including those tricks mentioned in Wayne's MOD thread, including replacing the fuse, etc..... VOID the warranty?  Somebody is saying I'm putting words in your mouth.  You and I are on good terms, I don't want somebody to ruin this relationship.

Shek


 Replacing a fuse does not void the warranty.
 Going inside of the unit and trying to replace 8 pin op-amp's does as you can short something out just by a single slip or not installing them correctly or whatever.
 If you want to have a qualified technician put in the op-amp, when I say qualified I mean only one guy at this time and that would be Wayne from Bolder as he is very familiar with the circuit, your more then welcome to have him do the work.
 I just don't want anybody who thinks he can try this by being careful and is willing to take the chance to Do It Himself to even attempt this. All it can possibly cause for me is a big headache for repairs and an extra expense for my customers if they do. The excuse of I'm not sure what is wrong with it now as it just won't play definetly has disadvantages. I'm not sure of the hourly rate of a qualified technition but trying to analize or determine and trace what he messed up does not come cheaply.

 As it turns out, I received an email from my customer this morning saying that the DAC is now playing fine as he reinstalled the op-amps. He was lucky.
 What was even luckier was having a gentleman like Wayne offer to look at the DAC for me for no charge to help out my customer. :thumb: It doesn't get any better then that as a member of the human race looking out for one another.
  Kindest Regards,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 8 Jan 2011, 06:54 pm
Getting back to tube rolling.....

I recently bought a EE DAC(used) and which was delivered with the stock tube.  I bought a PSVANE tube from Grant Fidelity which was very grainy when I inserted it into my DAC.  However, after about 50 hours, I did a comparison again and the PSVANE really settled down quite nicely and I do prefer it over the stock tube.

My "problem" is that I am losing feeling in my right thumb and index finger trying to pull the darn tubes out of the DAC!!  Is there a "technique" that I don't know about?  I know the tube is in a tight place, but there is enough room for even by fat-ass fingers to get in there.  The tube socket just won't let go of its death grip on the tube :lol:

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Big Red Machine on 8 Jan 2011, 07:12 pm
Hey, where's the fuse hiding?  I cannot find it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 8 Jan 2011, 07:19 pm
My "problem" is that I am losing feeling in my right thumb and index finger trying to pull the darn tubes out of the DAC!!  Is there a "technique" that I don't know about?  I know the tube is in a tight place, but there is enough room for even by fat-ass fingers to get in there.  The tube socket just won't let go of its death grip on the tube

You need as good a grip on the tube as the socket has.  A ~ 3" X 1" strip of thin grippy rubber (silicone is ideal) held in a "U" should give you the grip you need to easily pull it from the socket.
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 8 Jan 2011, 07:27 pm
Thank's Steve.  I did put on some latex gloves my wife had laying around and it did make it somewhat easier but still too difficult.  On top of that, she saw me with the gloves on so I had to then go and clean all the toilets in the house. :lol:  I will try and find a silicone type material as you suggest.

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 8 Jan 2011, 07:30 pm
Hey, where's the fuse hiding?  I cannot find it.

Is it not built into the bottom of the IEC power connector?
 
Steve
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: PeteG on 8 Jan 2011, 07:35 pm

Is it not built into the bottom of the IEC power connector?
 
Steve

Yes it is.

Pete,
Its right underneath the IEC inlet.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: andy71 on 8 Jan 2011, 08:21 pm
anybody else with thoughts on a psvane tube in a stock dac?  particularly in comparison to the tube that came with the dac and otehr tube in a $30-50 price range (probably the ballpark i'd be willing to spend for a tube right now as this is my first experience with tubes - other than a musical fidelity tube buffer - where the tube is soldered in and not easily changed.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 8 Jan 2011, 08:29 pm
I'd check out the Siemens Silverplate over the Pavane in that price range.  I have both and its a definite preference for me. 

Although I did like what I heard with the Pavane in the modified DAC, I never revisited my Siemens after the modded tour dac had stabilized and never played with different ICs to make it work.  I suspect my preference on the moded dac may swing back to the Siemens again when my personal DAC gets back from Wayne. 

I did pick up a Mullard Longhorn which was strongly recommended to me by someone who has the Pavane and Siemens and drew the same conclusions as me, but thats well above $50.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: andy71 on 8 Jan 2011, 09:28 pm
My only problem with buying NOS tubes is I know absolutely nothing about tubes - so when somebody posts the testing numbers I have know idea if that is good, mediocre or bad.  I've also heard that NOS tubes are kind of a mixed bag because of people faking tubes (both now and some tubes that were faked 50 years ago)   That was the particular appeal of psvane - they are new and a known quantity.  I was also looking at a E80cc (at the top of my price range)

Is there a good tutorial on tubes and any reliable sources?  (upscale audio seems to be the only one i've see consistently)  Do I need upscale audio platinum or gold rating?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: TJHUB on 8 Jan 2011, 10:37 pm
My only problem with buying NOS tubes is I know absolutely nothing about tubes - so when somebody posts the testing numbers I have know idea if that is good, mediocre or bad.  I've also heard that NOS tubes are kind of a mixed bag because of people faking tubes (both now and some tubes that were faked 50 years ago)   That was the particular appeal of psvane - they are new and a known quantity.  I was also looking at a E80cc (at the top of my price range)

Is there a good tutorial on tubes and any reliable sources?  (upscale audio seems to be the only one i've see consistently)  Do I need upscale audio platinum or gold rating?

When I was looking for tubes, I found Brent Jesse at www.audiotubes.com to be a great source.  Call and talk to him, you'll see.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: John151 on 9 Jan 2011, 12:39 am
I have purchased tubes from several vendors, including several from Brent Jessee.  All transactions have been very positive, but I have had the best luck purchasing tubes from the classifieds right here on AC (your patience will be reported with significant savings).

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: andy71 on 10 Jan 2011, 12:12 am
Why does audiotubes.com seem to only have one level of quality (all tubes are the same price and only choice is matched pairs or single tubes) when upscale audio has 3 grades (platinum, gold, and driver) with 3 significantly different prices?  Is there a real difference in tube grades and does tube grade matter for this dac?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 10 Jan 2011, 02:51 am
If I'm not mistaken, Upscale audios LOWEST grade of tube is what they recommend as fine for DACs/CDPs. 

I'd shoot for quality testing, strength, emissions, etc., with other vendors for sure, but I'm not sure you have to go too crazy for this DAc.

"Driver grade - Lowest noise but not the lowest in microphony. Triode balance will be similar to Gold grade.
This grade is only suitable for use in the driver stage of an amplifier, or the output/buffer stage of a DAC or CD Player."
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: andy71 on 10 Jan 2011, 04:24 pm
First, thank you to all the helpful folks who've given their impressions and advice - this thread has been immensly helpful.  Well after spending a lot of time reading these threads and checking descriptions of tubes all over the web I've decided to start my tube rolling with a phillips E80cc gold pin from audiotubes.com.  Should be here in a week or so and I'll post notes.  The siemens silverplate seemed like another really good option but i couldn't find one at a reasonable price.  I'm also interested to see more impressions of a Psvane tube in a stock dac.

FYI - my system is...
FLAC > sonos > eastern electric dac > B&K Ref 5 preamp > B&K Ref 125 amp > Onix Reference 1 monitors + cambridge soundworks P500 subwoofer (sealed 2x8")
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: arthur on 22 Feb 2011, 07:37 pm
The wireless G AEX has been playing for an hour without a dropout.  How odd.  I am not sure I understand it really.  I guess it is the Wireless N AEX.  I am not sure what else to say beyond I think that working on this by EE would be great because not so many people have access to an AEX G.  It would be a real detriment to not having it work with the AEX available now.  That being said, I see that this is an Apple issue.

Hi
What are your impressions about the sound quality differences between the airport express g input and the other inputs?

Thank you
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: grodri02 on 22 Feb 2011, 08:53 pm
I just put in an order for this DAC....cant wait.

Question: I just bought a Jolida 302brc tube amp and Im loving it. I listen to music strictly from my PC and currently I run a coax spif cable (about 50 feet) from my Audigy 2 ZS sound card to my Onkyo 905 Home theater receiver that serves as a DAC for now. Then I connect to my jolida by RCA cables. Now that this new DAC is comming, should I upgrade my sound card? Or should I get one USB to SPIF converter? Or should I just connect USB since I dont listen to any 24 bit and just listen to downloaded MP3s or FLAC.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: nature boy on 10 Mar 2011, 07:32 pm
Bill O'Connell,

I hope you will post a link to Doug Schroeder's op-amp rolling article in Dagogo when it is available.  I'm sure it will be of interest to posters, owners and hopeful owners.  Keep that great gear coming - still love my Minimax preamp :D

NB
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 10 Mar 2011, 09:38 pm
Yes, I definetly will put a link to his article, I think it is still a couple of weeks away from being published though.

 Thanks,
 Bill
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 5 Apr 2011, 06:01 pm
Bill and everyone else, has anyone tried an RCA clear top 12AU7A in the EE DAC stock or Bolder modified?

I'm wishy washing on the Pavane and the Mullard might be a hair laid back for me.  The descriptions I've read of the RCAs is intriguing, but I have no idea how it would work in THIS application.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Apr 2011, 06:12 pm
I have the an RCA Cleartops and don't have a use for.  I don't have Wayne's mod so can't say much about it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 5 Apr 2011, 06:29 pm
On second thought, I just bought a cheap solo on ebay to listen for myself.  I love the fact that this DAC needs a single tube.  No worrying about matched pairs or anything really.  Just pop in a cheap single tube and see how it does.  Much cheaper this way.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 5 Apr 2011, 08:34 pm
12AU7=ECC82 Telefunken Germany Smooth Plates
(excellent and recommended - slightly warmer sound than ribbed plates)

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2011, 01:02 am
First impressions of the RCA Cleartop 12au7a is pretty darn good.  I'll see how things play out over the next few days, but this may be recommendable.  Its not even burned in yet, but going from memory I prefer it to the cv4003...   as for the siemens silverplate and 1952 mullard long plate...  thats to be determined.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2011, 01:16 am
Really?  I hate the clear top RCA 12AU7.  To each his own.    :lol:


First impressions of the RCA Cleartop 12au7a is pretty darn good.  I'll see how things play out over the next few days, but this may be recommendable.  Its not even burned in yet, but going from memory I prefer it to the cv4003...   as for the siemens silverplate and 1952 mullard long plate...  thats to be determined.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2011, 01:29 am
Really?  I hate the clear top RCA 12AU7.  To each his own.    :lol:

Yep.  This is the first NOS/new tube I've liked straight into the dac.  Everything else has taken a while to burn in and for me to come around.  I'm noting a little congestion and hardness in the upper midrange, but if this thing relaxes it might be pretty good.   

What is it about the clear top that irks you?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2011, 01:35 am
It sounds like a bad solid state.  You already described it.   :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 9 Apr 2011, 01:37 am
Really?  I hate the clear top RCA 12AU7.  To each his own.    :lol:

Levi,
 I absolutely hated the cleartop in the miniMax preamp. I've never thought about putting it into the DAC . Even on the recommendation of Gopher who's ear I trust , this tube for some reason even in our M20 integrated or any other application I have put it in for reason just does not gel with the tone I like.
 That being said, I like warm laid back as I use horns and they are dynamic enough, I prefer my presentation more from 15 rows back. But that's just me. YMMV
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2011, 02:50 am
I can't say it will work in your rig, Bill.  But based on what I'm hearing so far its been a fun cheap experiment.  I''m eager to fast forward burn in 40 hours and see what these things sound like with some hours.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bunky on 9 Apr 2011, 03:41 am
a 1950's Amperex Holland 12AU7 with the D getter and the foil strip is a excellent tube for this DAC  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 9 Apr 2011, 03:52 am
I can't say it will work in your rig, Bill.  But based on what I'm hearing so far its been a fun cheap experiment.  I''m eager to fast forward burn in 40 hours and see what these things sound like with some hours.

Fred,

 I know it doesn't work in mine, although I haven't tried it in the DAC or my EL156's or the M88 :lol: truth be told.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2011, 04:03 am
Ha, maybe I'm nuts.  I've got Berto coming over early afternoon tomorrow and chances are he won't read this in advance.  He's heard my digital with a Mullard and Pavane (along with Waynes mods).  We'll see if he compliments, criticizes or doesn't register a difference with respect to my digi playback.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Berto on 9 Apr 2011, 05:17 am
Ha, maybe I'm nuts.  I've got Berto coming over early afternoon tomorrow and chances are he won't read this in advance.  He's heard my digital with a Mullard and Pavane (along with Waynes mods).  We'll see if he compliments, criticizes or doesn't register a difference with respect to my digi playback.

Somtimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't :duh:

Guess we have to put the redgum in first for a true a/b if you want my opinion.  Of course being up late and reading these posts might of poisoned me, since I already don't like what i'm hearing. :icon_lol:

With all that being said, not sure what the value of aural memory one month later is, but will try :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 9 Apr 2011, 06:04 am
I still have some Textronix(its late) tested RCA12au7 cleartops that I have yet to use or hear. Maybe I just ran into a few different variety of one's that didn't do it for me.
 Tubes and taste albeit you know what you like,differ from system and preferences.
Maybe the cleartop works wonders in the MiniMax circuit, I've just been tainted by previous trials with it.
 I can recommend tubes till my final day but if it is one thing I've learned over the years with tubes is, everybody's system and taste range from synergy in their room to music enjoyed and tone that is pleasing to what you think music should sound like.Nothing portrays it better than tubes. Which one to use is the question.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 9 Apr 2011, 12:03 pm
Doh!  I guess the expectation of a change will be there. 

A month may be a while, but I know you enjoyed my digital a lot in my system and yours and the talk of others isn't that of a 'slight difference' but more like a passionate hatred.   :lol:  I thought something might register. 

I wasn't the soberest when posting last night, but I left the rig on overnight playing isotek tones (whether you believe they accelerate burn in or not, thats another 9 hours on 'em) and its still sounding darn good this morning.  Transparant, wide stage, really coherent through the mids, maybe slightly forward.  Its not the deepest stage, nor the most impactful bass I've had in here and it is a little less rich then the Pavane and Mullard 1950s LP I have, but its more engaging than the Pavane for me. 

This is the particular one I'm listening to now.:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=250793259252&si=YV4puKFRcG9OPqnetsAAl276T4s%253D&viewitem=#ht_500wt_922
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2011, 12:50 pm
I could have saved you money as I have several of those that I tried with my EE DAC. :lol:

To each his own.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 9 Apr 2011, 01:08 pm
Not sure if break in will help. The eBay ad did not say it was NOS (un-used) specially if the labeling almost gone.  :o  Having said that, trust your initial impressions.

Doh!  I guess the expectation of a change will be there. 

A month may be a while, but I know you enjoyed my digital a lot in my system and yours and the talk of others isn't that of a 'slight difference' but more like a passionate hatred.   :lol:  I thought something might register. 

I wasn't the soberest when posting last night, but I left the rig on overnight playing isotek tones (whether you believe they accelerate burn in or not, thats another 9 hours on 'em) and its still sounding darn good this morning.  Transparant, wide stage, really coherent through the mids, maybe slightly forward.  Its not the deepest stage, nor the most impactful bass I've had in here and it is a little less rich then the Pavane and Mullard 1950s LP I have, but its more engaging than the Pavane for me. 

This is the particular one I'm listening to now.:  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=250793259252&si=YV4puKFRcG9OPqnetsAAl276T4s%253D&viewitem=#ht_500wt_922
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 14 Apr 2011, 06:51 pm
I'd tried a Mazda Citfe in the EE DAC and that was another nice one.  Lighter on the body, like the RCA but a little bit faster sounding and smoother in the upper mids.  Its like the the cleartop should be. 

I've been having some room issues lately since moving some furniture around (I've dealt with it by putting furniture movers under half of my L couch and my LP storage to move things around when I want to listen) but when things are in their new default positions, the leaner, nimbler tubing helps with some congestedness.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 14 Apr 2011, 07:45 pm
I just received my Mullard Long Plate Square Getter Circa 1950's today. I'll be enjoying some music tonight. I just love the sound of a Mullard tube. I really like this DAC even with the stock tube!! I think the Mullard will take it to the next level.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 14 Apr 2011, 08:21 pm
 :thumb:  enjoy.  My Mullard 1952 LP is the best tube I've used in the DAC! 

Worth the expense for sure.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 14 Apr 2011, 08:30 pm
:thumb:  enjoy.  My Mullard 1952 LP is the best tube I've used in the DAC! 

Worth the expense for sure.

That's good to know.. Well worth the expense..   :D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 14 Apr 2011, 08:38 pm
:thumb:  enjoy.  My Mullard 1952 LP is the best tube I've used in the DAC! 

Worth the expense for sure.


 Couldn't agree more! :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Alexdad54 on 14 Apr 2011, 09:43 pm
:thumb:  enjoy.  My Mullard 1952 LP is the best tube I've used in the DAC! 

Worth the expense for sure.
Based on the comments in this thread  I scored one of the early Mullard LP's from an eBay UK seller for what I thought was a pretty good price and it arrived today. My EE DAC is still undergoing burn-in (got about 100 hours on it right now) and before I insert the Mullard I obviously want to hear what the stock tubes along with my new Veloce cable and the Bolder fuse can do. My problem is this: when the tube arrived today it was packed in only 1 thin layer of bubblewrap  and then inserted into a pretty flimsy envelope for shipping from the UK. I'm a bit loath to try it out in the EE DAC without getting it tested in case I have to send it back to the seller (or do a PayPal claim).
Does anyone know where  I might be able to send it to see if it is still usable? It looks OK but I'm pretty new at this and couldn't really tell a bad tube from a coke bottle....
Appreciate any and all  suggestions.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 14 Apr 2011, 09:56 pm
Try the tube Dave.  :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 14 Apr 2011, 11:17 pm
In my modded EE DAC, I think I'm seeing a slight sibilance issue, albeit on less than stellar recordings, with the Pavane.  I'm thinking of trying a NOS Mullard LP with a square getter as many of you recommend it.  What is the difference in sound between the two?  Gopher, I know you have tried both in the modded EE DAC.  I'm going to try some Wywires PC and interconnects and see what they bring into the mix as well.

Thanks,
Ajay

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 14 Apr 2011, 11:26 pm
In my modded EE DAC, I think I'm seeing a slight sibilance issue, albeit on less than stellar recordings, with the Pavane.  I'm thinking of trying a NOS Mullard LP with a square getter as many of you recommend it.  What is the difference in sound between the two?  Gopher, I know you have tried both in the modded EE DAC.  I'm going to try some Wywires PC and interconnects and see what they bring into the mix as well.

Thanks,
Ajay

More wide deep 3D sound stage with the Mullard which was a highlight of the EE dac w/stock tube to begin with for me. IMHO, the Pavane robs the sound stage depth in favor of a sharper, more defined, more forward presentation and definitely not my cup of tea (nor was it for the actual owner of the modded EE Dac). But you need the right Mullard tube as they are not all created equal.  :thumb:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ajayrav on 15 Apr 2011, 12:47 am
I found a 1950s Mullard LP with square getter for $140.  Is that standard for these NOS tubes?  And is this the right tube?

Ajay
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 15 Apr 2011, 12:58 am
I agree 100% with Robin's assessment, right down to it not being my cup of tea either (I actually just threw my Psvane 845s on audiogon today).  That said, I can see why people love them they just aren't my taste.

That price is a little high in my opinion, but they are rare enough that the seller will probably find a buyer.  My ceiling would be 100 for a single.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ramante on 15 Apr 2011, 01:14 am
This is what I bought from Tube World for $145:

CV491=12AU7 Mullard BVA NOS "long plates" with "SQUARE" getter halo and 2 crossbars across getter halo 1955-1957: (k61-B5I=1955) NOS slightly microphonic, recommended for amp or buffer stage (12/12.2ma)

It does sound great with my system, but I'm all about the tone and timbre.  Have only tried the stock tube and this.  This sounds so good, I can not see it being bettered, but who knows?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 15 Apr 2011, 01:20 am
This is what I bought from Tube World for $145:

CV491=12AU7 Mullard BVA NOS "long plates" with "SQUARE" getter halo and 2 crossbars across getter halo 1955-1957: (k61-B5I=1955) NOS slightly microphonic, recommended for amp or buffer stage (12/12.2ma)

It does sound great with my system, but I'm all about the tone and timbre.  Have only tried the stock tube and this.  This sounds so good, I can not see it being bettered, but who knows?

My friend's got the K64 Mullard, and it very very impressive with the EE Dac in his system.  :drool:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 15 Apr 2011, 01:40 am
Another great tweak for the DAC that I just received today and to my surprise at just how good they work are the Herbies Tenderfoot's. Four of these under the DAC. :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 15 Apr 2011, 03:15 am
Another great tweak for the DAC that I just received today and to my surprise at just how good they work are the Herbies Tenderfoot's. Four of these under the DAC. :thumb:

First off the Mullard LPSG rocks with this DAC!! Well worth the "Buck 30"!! I've had herbie's Tenderfeet for a while. Damn nice with the EE DAC!! Bill, You and Alex have a real "Giant Killer"!!

Way to go Bill..

Gary
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 15 Apr 2011, 03:32 am
Looks like I'll have to investigate tenderfeet. 

Yep, Alex designs some real winners.  I'm auditioning to the Avant as I type this and the pre has a ton of potential, though I'm still looking for the perfect '50s Mullard' balance.  It truly is amazing what well designed Chinese products are doing to the price/performance ratio in this hobby.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Alexdad54 on 16 Apr 2011, 08:16 pm
Well I have my new EE DAC nicely broken in and it sounds great, a bit aggressive on the high end but I'll be trying out my new Mullard soon ad see how that does My current problem is that I'm experiencing audio dropouts that come and go with no real regularity but are really annoying. They're ~1 sec in length and don' appear to have any pattern of appearance. I have re-checked my pc set up (EEE PC running Ubuntu serving an Alix board that feeds into the DAC via a Veloce spdif cable. USB to spdif conversion is done by my Audio-GD Digital Interface that uses a Trends chip) and it seems to be  operating fine. Nick (nyc_paramedic) has also given it a clean bill of health.
I didn't have this issue with my NOS Havana but I have read the the Sabre chip doesn't like high-jitter feeds and this may be my problem. I switched from an M2Tech HiFace because I didn't like the high end on it but, if this theory is correct, may have to seek another converter.
All comments/ideas re this problem are most appreciated.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 16 Apr 2011, 08:34 pm
I noticed that the EE Dac is susceptible to AC noise.  I would try to isolate the EE Dac from other equipment in the house.  Hopefully the signal drop-out goes away.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Alexdad54 on 16 Apr 2011, 08:38 pm
Thanks Levi, I have the EE DAC hooked into a Majik Buss and then into the wall, I'm not sure what else I can do other than buying an isolation transformer...
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: coke on 16 Apr 2011, 08:41 pm
I also have dropouts when watching blu ray.  No issues with my squeezebox though. Not sure what the problem is.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 16 Apr 2011, 08:53 pm
Watching bu ray from via what input? Coax or optical?

If the USB-coax converter is a prob, you might want to check out the recently released Musical Fidelity converter. Same price range as the HiFace.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: coke on 16 Apr 2011, 09:18 pm
Watching bu ray from via what input? Coax or optical?

If the USB-coax converter is a prob, you might want to check out the recently released Musical Fidelity converter. Same price range as the HiFace.

Optical out of an Oppo BDP-83.

No issues using coax from the squeezebox.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 16 Apr 2011, 09:59 pm
In my experience with the EE DAC optical input was most susceptible to dropouts. And optical can often struggle with hi-res material. Maybe see if coax will avoid the prob. You could get a coax cable with RCA to BNC if need be.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: koiman on 16 Apr 2011, 11:31 pm
I also have a problem with drop outs when the optical is hooked up to my Polk XM Radio receiver.
Lee :(
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 17 Apr 2011, 12:29 am
I had dropout problems when connected to a set top box via coax but none when connected to Squeezebox Touch.
This is a fine sounding DAC but it does have its quirks.
Fortunately I had an old Beresford lying around - more than adequate for STB duties.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 17 Apr 2011, 01:01 am
Well I have my new EE DAC nicely broken in and it sounds great, a bit aggressive on the high end but I'll be trying out my new Mullard soon ad see how that does My current problem is that I'm experiencing audio dropouts that come and go with no real regularity but are really annoying. They're ~1 sec in length and don' appear to have any pattern of appearance. I have re-checked my pc set up (EEE PC running Ubuntu serving an Alix board that feeds into the DAC via a Veloce spdif cable. USB to spdif conversion is done by my Audio-GD Digital Interface that uses a Trends chip) and it seems to be  operating fine. Nick (nyc_paramedic) has also given it a clean bill of health.
I didn't have this issue with my NOS Havana but I have read the the Sabre chip doesn't like high-jitter feeds and this may be my problem. I switched from an M2Tech HiFace because I didn't like the high end on it but, if this theory is correct, may have to seek another converter.
All comments/ideas re this problem are most appreciated.

Dave, have you tried the USB cable directly into the EE Dac? Sounded pretty good in my system. Using the Empirical Off-Ramp 3 transport into the EE Dac was definitely better but I was surprised on how close it actually was. Just a thought fwiw.  :D
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 17 Apr 2011, 01:48 am
I also have dropouts when watching blu ray.  No issues with my squeezebox though. Not sure what the problem is.


 Make sure your Blue Ray is set for PCM 2 channel stereo.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 18 Apr 2011, 07:52 pm
OK...I am buying into the Mullard Long Plate D Square Getter as one of the best tubes for the EE minidac.  My question is which one?  Yes, I have read through this thread, but people are using 1952 Mullards on through the late 50's Mullards.  Is the CV491 tube the one to get?  In reading, it seems this tube was made between 1955-57 and apparently commands a price of around $125-$175 depending... Here are the specs on this tube:
- 17mm long ribbed plates
- D-shaped square getter
- wavy glass Mullard CV491
- made in the Blackburn factory in England
- codes: B5K and B6B (year 1955 and 1956)

Robin made a comment not too far back in this thread, "make sure it is the right Mullard..." 

I just want to be sure about getting the Mullard tube everyone is raving about before I shell out $100+ for it ...  :thumb:

Thanks,

Randy

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill@LakeGeorge on 18 Apr 2011, 08:33 pm
Mullard 12au7 longplate D or square getter wire version . It
will have the K61 date code etched into the glass.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 18 Apr 2011, 08:34 pm
OK...I am buying into the Mullard Long Plate D Square Getter as one of the best tubes for the EE minidac.  My question is which one?  Yes, I have read through this thread, but people are using 1952 Mullards on through the late 50's Mullards.  Is the CV491 tube the one to get?  In reading, it seems this tube was made between 1955-57 and apparently commands a price of around $125-$175 depending... Here are the specs on this tube:
- 17mm long ribbed plates
- D-shaped square getter
- wavy glass Mullard CV491
- made in the Blackburn factory in England
- codes: B5K and B6B (year 1955 and 1956)

Robin made a comment not too far back in this thread, "make sure it is the right Mullard..." 

I just want to be sure about getting the Mullard tube everyone is raving about before I shell out $100+ for it ...  :thumb:

Thanks,

Randy

That looks like the right one? When I get home from the "Rock Pile" I'll check the box that My Mullard LPSG came in.

I replaced the stock tube with a Mullard LPSG. The DAC just came alive!! I'm really impressed with this DAC!! But, I'm a Mullard fan!! Their in my EE DAC, Monoblocks and Phono stage.

Enjoy,

Gary
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 18 Apr 2011, 08:39 pm
Thanks Bill  :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 18 Apr 2011, 08:42 pm
On the D shaped getter, look for a double bar on the straight line of the D
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 18 Apr 2011, 08:54 pm
I did find this quote regarding this particular tube...

Quote
Speaking of 12 AU7's...

The best Mullard 12AU7 is the 1950's 17mm plate square getter version. It can be designated 12AU7, ECC82 or CV491 depending on the customer order. This tube was made up until 1958 and can be identified by the top line of the date code being k61, the 1 meaning Mullard's first version. It is also possible to find this tube branded Amperex Bugle Boy Made in Holland. In 1958 the getter shape was changed to a large O-getter, but this is still the same tube.The k62 versions are still excellent, but not as good. The Telefunken ECC802S is a very linear, uncolored tube with slight euphony to the mids, whereas the Mullard is fat, very colored, warm, and has great clarity with warmth on top. The Amperex 7316 early version, with a D-getter, is not as fat, lying sonically between the Mullard and Telefunken, it is extremely sweet with a euphonic rounded midrange and good bass. Later Amperex 7316's, particularly orange globe branded ones, are notably inferior.

Quote
The military box-plate Mullard CV4003/M8136 is not a particularly great tube, early 60's versions are ok, but later ones sound quite poor.

Ebay is full of over priced tubes and just because it says Mullard does not mean it is your best bet. One really has know know their tubes

I have seen pics of the CV491 version of the Mullard but cannot see the K61 anywhere on the tube.
Should I stay away?

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 18 Apr 2011, 09:38 pm
I did find this quote regarding this particular tube...

I have seen pics of the CV491 version of the Mullard but cannot see the K61 anywhere on the tube.
Should I stay away?

Randy


The K61 B will be on the side towards the bottom, it will be etched into the glass.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 18 Apr 2011, 09:47 pm
Thanks Bill.

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 18 Apr 2011, 09:54 pm
This (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93593.0) the one you missed out on right here on AC Randy.  :nono:     :jester:
 
Here's the double bar D getter;
(http://)
 
and here's the K61 printed on the tube base;
(http://)
 
Snooze you lose.  :dunno:
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Bill O'Connell on 18 Apr 2011, 11:26 pm
This (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93593.0) the one you missed out on right here on AC Randy.  :nono:     :jester:
 
Here's the double bar D getter;
(http://)
 
and here's the K61 printed on the tube base;
(http://)
 
Snooze you lose.  :dunno:
 
Cheers,
Robin

Your way to funny :lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 19 Apr 2011, 12:23 am
Serves me right for taking a two day break from AC! I did contact the AC seller of that very Mullard and was not a dollar short but was most certainly a day late. :lol:

The good news is there are others...

Regards,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: DARTH AUDIO on 19 Apr 2011, 12:41 am
Serves me right for taking a two day break from AC! I did contact the AC seller of that very Mullard and was not a dollar short but was most certainly a day late. :lol:

The good news is there are others...

Regards,

Randy
Check with Brent Jesse   http://www.audiotubes.com/12au7.htm
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: bahorn1 on 19 Apr 2011, 12:47 am
(Sorry Randy.  I didn't snooze.  I was the one who bought the Mullard longplate recently posted!)

I just received my EE DAC last Thursday.  It is replacing a Tube Audio TADAC that has sounded great in my system but I have been anxious to try another DAC.  I've been close to buying the W4S DAC but couldn't pull the trigger.  With all the great reviews of the EE DAC, I decided to give it a try.

Straight out of the box, I really like the EE DAC.  I'm hearing details I have not heard before.  I'll slowly change connections and tubes to see how the sound changes.  I'm currently connecting my Mac Mini to the EE DAC via toslink.  I had been concerned that jitter on the toslink might cause the DAC to not lock onto the signal.  But I've had no problems with dropouts.  I am going to try a USB to SPDIF connector though just for comparison.  I have an MF V-Link and am waiting on my Black Cat Veloce to arrive.

I will also try tube rolling.  I love Mullards.  I have 4 CV4003 Mullards in my pre-amp.  My TADAC has 2 of the same tubes.  I'm going to roll in a Mullard CV4003 to see how it sounds, especially since it seems to be a favorite on this thread.  I also have an Amperex I want to try and may try an RCA Cleartop I have.  And of course, I'll try the Mullard longplate sometime after it arrives.

Bill O: Thanks for your support and prompt shipment.

--Doug
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 19 Apr 2011, 01:20 am
(Sorry Randy.  I didn't snooze.  I was the one who bought the Mullard longplate recently posted!)

I just received my EE DAC last Thursday.  It is replacing a Tube Audio TADAC that has sounded great in my system but I have been anxious to try another DAC.  I've been close to buying the W4S DAC but couldn't pull the trigger.  With all the great reviews of the EE DAC, I decided to give it a try.

Straight out of the box, I really like the EE DAC.  I'm hearing details I have not heard before.  I'll slowly change connections and tubes to see how the sound changes.  I'm currently connecting my Mac Mini to the EE DAC via toslink.  I had been concerned that jitter on the toslink might cause the DAC to not lock onto the signal.  But I've had no problems with dropouts.  I am going to try a USB to SPDIF connector though just for comparison.  I have an MF V-Link and am waiting on my Black Cat Veloce to arrive.

I will also try tube rolling.  I love Mullards.  I have 4 CV4003 Mullards in my pre-amp.  My TADAC has 2 of the same tubes.  I'm going to roll in a Mullard CV4003 to see how it sounds, especially since it seems to be a favorite on this thread.  I also have an Amperex I want to try and may try an RCA Cleartop I have.  And of course, I'll try the Mullard longplate sometime after it arrives.

Bill O: Thanks for your support and prompt shipment.

--Doug

Funny you should mention the TADAC cuz when I 1st heard the EE Dac, it was in direct comparison with the newer TDAC and an AVA Insight+ Dac. It was a better contest between the AVA dac and the TDAC (and I liked the TDAC much better) but it was really a nocontest against the EE Dac, then with the stock tube. But this K61 Mullard tube really made the sound stage pop in the Salk system I heard it in. Simply blows me away. But in my system, not so much with the EE Dac demo so you really never know til you try it out for yourself.  8)
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 21 Apr 2011, 07:19 pm
Hey Guys:

I have come across a Mullard 12AU7 that seems to fit the bill.  It is a Long Plate with the
square D getter.  The markings on the tube are as follows:
Mullard
K61
B8E
861
BVA
Made in Great Britain

It it not the military version as it does not have the CV marking anywhere.

The tube is NOS and in perfect shape in the original box.  I know this because the tube is local and I went and looked at it.

Is this the tube everyone is raving about?

Thanks,

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 21 Apr 2011, 07:29 pm
Your description sounds like it, especially with the k61 designation.

I'll let the tube gurus chime in though.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: satfrat on 21 Apr 2011, 08:04 pm
Hey Guys:

I have come across a Mullard 12AU7 that seems to fit the bill.  It is a Long Plate with the
square D getter.  The markings on the tube are as follows:
Mullard
K61
B8E
861
BVA
Made in Great Britain

It it not the military version as it does not have the CV marking anywhere.

The tube is NOS and in perfect shape in the original box.  I know this because the tube is local and I went and looked at it.

Is this the tube everyone is raving about?

Thanks,

Randy

If it's that local Randy, maybe you can demo the tube in your EE Dac and let your ears decide? Most don't have that opportunity with online tube purchases so it would be pretty tricked out if you did.  8)
 
Cheers,
Robin
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rklein on 21 Apr 2011, 08:53 pm
Hi Robin:

Your idea is great except I don't want to put this guy in a position to let me walk out of his store and try or audition a NOS vintage Mullard tube with the possibility of bringing it back and now it really isn't NOS anymore. :?

Randy
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: MrScary on 19 May 2011, 03:57 am
New EE DAC features coming in September

Thanks for your interest of our new model MiniMax DAC MKII. You are really fast getting the news.

It is a whole upgrade, it features...

Sabre ES9018
Italian M2Tech A Sync technology
Separate power transformers for digital and analog
High frequency relays/resistor input selection
improved PSU
improved tube output stage
improved 24/96 and 24/192KHz playing
volume pot removed
socketed opamps
tube/ss output selection

We look forward to the official launch ofthe MKII machine.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Jon L on 20 May 2011, 04:46 am
New EE DAC features coming in September

Thanks for your interest of our new model MiniMax DAC MKII. You are really fast getting the news.

It is a whole upgrade, it features...

Sabre ES9018
Italian M2Tech A Sync technology
Separate power transformers for digital and analog
High frequency relays/resistor input selection
improved PSU
improved tube output stage
improved 24/96 and 24/192KHz playing
volume pot removed
socketed opamps
tube/ss output selection

We look forward to the official launch ofthe MKII machine.

Most of those features, especially asynch USB and removal of volume pot, were strongly requested before the launch of MKI.  Guess better late than never :)  I certainly welcome them.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rodge827 on 20 May 2011, 11:18 am
New EE DAC features coming in September

Thanks for your interest of our new model MiniMax DAC MKII. You are really fast getting the news.

It is a whole upgrade, it features...

Sabre ES9018
Italian M2Tech A Sync technology
Separate power transformers for digital and analog
High frequency relays/resistor input selection
improved PSU
improved tube output stage
improved 24/96 and 24/192KHz playing
volume pot removed
socketed opamps
tube/ss output selection

We look forward to the official launch ofthe MKII machine.

Any idea of the price for the MKII version?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 20 May 2011, 01:46 pm
Any idea of the price for the MKII version?

And if there will be a pre-order special?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: MttBsh on 20 May 2011, 02:15 pm
Will be interesting to compare the upcoming version of the EE Dac to the Bolder modified version of the current model.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Eudyptes on 20 May 2011, 02:38 pm
New EE DAC features coming in September ...

Italian M2Tech A Sync technology


So like other M2Tech products (hiface, evo, young DAC) its USB asynch input won't work with Linux. Shame they did this.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ted_b on 20 May 2011, 02:45 pm
So like other M2Tech products (hiface, evo, young DAC) its USB asynch input won't work with Linux. Shame they did this.

Unless this is an entirely new USB board etc it is likely that the "improved 24/96 and 24/192" capability is the improvements at the SPDIF/AES inputs....meaning no new USB capability (they supposedly use M2tech's drivers now, no big change).  My point:  the inexpensive EE DAC is still an Alix possibility by using a Linux-compatible USB/SPDIF converter (Audiophileo, etc), as is what would be needed today.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: pardales on 29 May 2011, 02:46 am
Hope it will work "well" with a MAC via USB. USB seemed to be a weak input on  the original - just from what people reported here.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: buzz on 29 May 2011, 03:05 am
New EE DAC features coming in September

Thanks for your interest of our new model MiniMax DAC MKII. You are really fast getting the news.

It is a whole upgrade, it features...

Sabre ES9018...



As the dropout issue has been blamed on the use of this chip, you have decided for me that I will not be waiting for the upgrade. There are just too many other good 24/192 DACs to accept the risk of incompatibly with MAC toslink .
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: hifimark on 8 Jun 2011, 12:14 pm
To EE:

I bought EE minimax D/A a mont ago.
The Toslink cannot accept 192khz/24bits input
while Coaxial and BNC work fine at this rate.

I would like to have a suggested solution.

The machine's sound is impressive.

Thanks in advance.
HiFimark

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roger15ohm on 5 Jul 2011, 09:03 am
Hi guys,

Besides then tube rolling and Opamps upgrades, any other recommendation?  How about upgrade the output caps? 

Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rodge827 on 5 Jul 2011, 11:36 am
Hey,

Wayne is selling the modded tour dac $1500.00 obo.  :drool:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96068.0
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 5 Jul 2011, 12:55 pm
You can upgrade all the capacitors and replace all diodes. You can also add a cascade current source kit for the tube side and bypass the solid state output caps. I am currently waiting for a power supply upgrade so if you can figure that out, please let us know.

Upgrading the output caps alone does not yield any improvement to my ears.   :lol:

If you are unsure how to implement all the upgrades above, please seek professional help.

Good luck!

Hi guys,

Besides then tube rolling and Opamps upgrades, any other recommendation?  How about upgrade the output caps? 

Thanks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: slee on 18 Jul 2011, 02:38 pm
Hello everyone.  For all that are experiencing dropoffs with your ee dac, I use the aes and toslink inputs only, and have been getting periodic dropoffs since I've put it in my system.  A week ago I placed a cardas cap on the unused rca input.  I haven't had a single dropoff since.  So if you are not using the rca plug, try it.  Could be that the nasty rfi/emi are contaminating the single?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: rollo on 18 Jul 2011, 02:58 pm
Hey,

Wayne is selling the modded tour dac $1500.00 obo.  :drool:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96068.0

  Jump in , a great product. Not a dealer for EE or Bolder.


charles
SMA
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 19 Jul 2011, 02:22 am
A bit off topic but possibly relevant nonetheless.
There's a thread over on Head-Fi discussing the fact that Audio-GD is supplying improperly wired power cords with their gear.
Quote
The cords are wired such that they tie AC mains HOT to IEC neutral. This is a violation against code and presents an increased risk of shock, fire and/or equipment damage.
From what I understand they are wired to Chinese standards and are not compliant to North American standards. I was just wondering if there's any possibility that the AC cable that came with the EE DAC could be wired in the same manner.
I don't want to be an alarmist but I would just like to rule out any possibility of getting zapped or watching my house go up in flames because my DAC's power cord is incompatible with NA standards. 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 19 Jul 2011, 02:46 am
Doubtful, but its a generic cord anyway.  If you've got any concern just use a different IEC cable--most of us hobbyists have draws full of them, many never used as we've got aftermarkets. 

It should not be a legitimate concern.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 19 Jul 2011, 03:00 am
Yeah, let's definitely not jump to the conclusion that this is a problem with any Chinese made piece of gear. Bill and Alex deliver great products and I think the suggestion made without any actual evidence is pretty offensive.

If a Ford car has brake problems would you worry that a GM or Chrystler would have the same? 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Levi on 19 Jul 2011, 03:21 am
There is no problem with mine.   :lol:

I would assume it would be the same for all EE DAC here in US.

(http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s43/ofier/Stereophile/Main%20System/Eastern%20Electric%20DAC/87871892.jpg)
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 19 Jul 2011, 12:47 pm
Yeah, let's definitely not jump to the conclusion that this is a problem with any Chinese made piece of gear. Bill and Alex deliver great products and I think the suggestion made without any actual evidence is pretty offensive.

If a Ford car has brake problems would you worry that a GM or Chrystler would have the same?

It was by no means meant to be offensive. I'm very happy with my EE DAC just as many Audio-GD owners appear to be with theirs it's just a question of Chinese standards vs North American standards not brand A vs brand B. These DACs are developed, built and tested in China not North America.
Most of the generic cords that I have lying around are made in China also and to be honest I plug/unplug gear so often that I can't say for sure that the cord that I'm using with the EE is the original one.
I guess other than testing the Made in China cords my safest bet would be to go out and buy a Made in USA aftermarket cord. Or I could keep a fire extinguisher close by and use heavy rubber gloves when I handle my Made in China gear. :icon_lol:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 19 Jul 2011, 01:10 pm
I guess other than testing the Made in China cords my safest bet would be to go out and buy a Made in USA aftermarket cord.

No, with anyone easily able to become a cable "manufacturer" with no technical expertise requirements, certifications or electrical association approvals, any IEC cord could be potentially mis-wired and the safest bet would be to put an ohmeter on any power cord to determine if it has correct polarity, regardless of the country of manufacturing origin.
 
Steve
Title: Loving the Volume Control !!!!!
Post by: John151 on 10 Aug 2011, 02:11 am
When Bill first posted about the EE DAC, I was dead set against the volume knob - didn't want it in the signal path as I did not think I would ever use it. Well, my Pre-Amp went south on me last night, leaving me high and dry.  I was really bummed until I realized that the EE DAC has a volume knob, so anything that runs thru the DAC can be play w/o the pre-amp.   I have never been able to get the Motorola/Comcast DVR to work with the DAC, so SB3 and Oppo DVD player only.  However, I just switched cable companies today,  so I connected the new Cisco box to the EE DAC - works fine after I un-selected "Dolby Digital" in the cable box.  So,  my little EE DAC is now serving the role of DAC and Pre-Amp.  Sweet.    Now I need to go and give a close listen to some tunes and see how this set up sounds. 

Thanks Alex and Bill for the volume knob that I did not want, but now need! 

 :thumb:
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 24 Aug 2011, 04:13 pm
Do you guys have any thoughts transport wise about the Bolder modified Squeezebox Touch vs. a software optimized MacMini?

I've got a Bolder modded EE DAC and Bolder modded Touch now and I'm really preferring the interface of the macmini and I'm 'invested' in this DAC beyond its retail.  I thought briefly about jumping ship and buying the new EE DAC with the async usb (for macmini use) but I don't think the plus will perform up to the Level 1.

That said, if I'm listening to primarily 16/44 music anyway and have the same digital cables (Wywire SPDIF & Wywire USB) would it be a silly move to buy replace my Touch with a Macmini?  I have spent very limited time with the USB input, but understand it to be inferior to the other inputs.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: ted_b on 24 Aug 2011, 04:58 pm
Fred,
The standard (or modded) EE DAC's USB is only average at best, so if you went Mac Mini you'd want to do optical (no, not worth it) or buy a SPDIF/USB converter.  No reason to...stick with your SB.  Streamed TCP/IP is actually quite a good transport theory.  I'm not a huge fan of SB's DACs and analog section, but as a 24/96-or-less transport it's actually very good.  Especially since it's modded too.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 24 Aug 2011, 05:09 pm
What you use with the EE DAC is entirely up to you. There are a few things to consider.

The USB input on the 1st gen EE DAC does not sound anywhere near as good as the coax inputs.

The Mac Mini uses a switching power supply that does degrade the sound. A linear supply can be used with the Mac Mini for an additional charge.

To get the most out of a Mac Mini, additional music player software should be purchased.

A lot of the functions of the Mac Mini should be shut down.

Natively, the Mac Mini will not play flac files.

The Mac Mini will need to use a USB to SP/DIF convertor to interface with the EE DAC. The Mac Mini will be sending noisy power along the USB cable to power most USB to SP/DIF convertors.

All of these "problems" with the Mac Mini can be corrected, for a price.

For higher res 24/176, 24/192 a properly set up Mac Mini with all the options can sound wonderful. But it will cost quite a bit more than the Touch.

For 16/44.1 and 24/96 the Touch, with mods, is one of the better players available.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Gopher on 24 Aug 2011, 05:39 pm
Thanks for the thoughts guys.

I don't really have any qualms with the Bolder SB Touch transport SQ wise, but what I do lust after a bit is the interface of the macmini.  Seeing the album art screen savers on my tv, having Genius functionality, using my ipad2 or touchpad as remotes--it just seemed like a slicker option and I suspected it could be an easy/no out of pocket swap.

It sounds like things aren't that simple and adding new PSUs, usb/spdiff interfaces and software (I liked pure music at my buddy's place) would skyrocket the cost and not necessarily be an upgrade...  just cooler looking.

Maybe I need to be satisfied with MusicIP taking a full 24 hours to index my library...  That and squeezeserver crashing every time I search for new/changed music.  Grr
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: srb on 24 Aug 2011, 05:40 pm
The Mac Mini will need to use a USB to SP/DIF convertor to interface with the EE DAC. The Mac Mini will be sending noisy power along the USB cable to power most USB to SP/DIF convertors.

You may prefer to use a USB to coaxial S/PDIF converter instead of the Mac Mini's optical S/PDIF for potentially better sound quality and/or > than 24/96 capability, but the optical output can certainly be used for up to 24/96 and is most likely a better choice than the EE Minimax DAC's (original version) USB input.
 
A high quality USB to coaxial S/PDIF converter can later be added particularly if an in-home demo can demonstrate the improved sound quality.
 
Steve
 
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: roscoeiii on 24 Aug 2011, 06:11 pm
Fred,

I love my headless Mac Mini, I control it via my laptop using screen sharing, and there are some great audio players out there for Mac. Both Pure Music and Fidelia are great and reasonably priced.

When I had an EE DAC, the optical didn't always work great with my Mac Mini (an older model). I think that this is because my Mac Mini has some fairly nasty jitter on the optical output (not sure if new models improve on this, but I have also read that outside the first generation of Apple AirPort Expresses, the subsequent Airport Expresses have high jitter issues as well). IIRC, the Sabre chip can be pretty sensitive to jitter. So I would recommend going with a USB-SPDIF converter. With the EE DAC you could use an M2Tech HiFace, with BNC no less. I did that and it worked great. Other more recent converters that have gotten good reviews are the new April Music converter (see the 6moons review) and the Audiophilio converters (also reviewed at 6moons IIRC). And there are others from Musical Fidelity, Audio gd, etc. A number of solid choices at different price points it seems.

But I do really love the MacMini interface options for playing my digital files.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 24 Aug 2011, 06:26 pm
Fred,

I'm sorry to hear you are having interface issues with the SqueezeServer software.

I have no issues with the computer running the latest version of the software at the moment.

You might want to spend some time trying to find what is causing the crashing. You might want to get in touch with lcrim here on AC. He is very good with networks.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 7 Nov 2011, 12:58 am
Not sure if this is the right place but here goes...

Wanted to do away with the input selector and associated wires(please don't ask why) on the MM.

I just tried hard wiring the BNC + input to the input pin on the board and the - to one of the two ground pins. For some reason standard files work fine but I'm getting no signal when trying to play 24-96 files from my SB Touch(7.7)
I thought it might be the new SB software so tried with my other DAC and 24-96 works OK.

Any clues?
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 7 Nov 2011, 01:19 am
Don't run the sp/dif direct from the input jack of the BNC direct to the input of the DAC chip. Run the BNC to the network on the board. In other words, hook up the jack connection as you would stock. Then jump out the selector switch. 75 ohm cable should be used for all connections. At 24/96 and above, impedance and shielding are very critical.

If you still have problems, you can send the unit to me, but be aware I have five EE DACs waiting for mods right now.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 7 Nov 2011, 01:35 am
Thanks Wayne,
Once I connect the BNC input to board in stock location I connect BNC pin to input pin(right?) and what do I do with the two ground pins?

Actually I should send you the unit to clean up some of the "damage" I've done but for now I'd just like to get it working.
 
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 7 Nov 2011, 02:20 am
Thanks Wayne,
Once I connect the BNC input to board in stock location I connect BNC pin to input pin(right?) and what do I do with the two ground pins?

Actually I should send you the unit to clean up some of the "damage" I've done but for now I'd just like to get it working.

Use a small length of mini 75 ohm coax to jump the BNC to input and the two ground connections. You do have to get creative with wire dressing. You may have to pull the board and work from the bottom.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 7 Nov 2011, 02:44 am
I've got the BNC pin hooked up to the input pin with a short length of the same shielded wire that was originally used to connect to the selector switch.
I used the same wire to connect the BNC input to board but removed the shield as it was easier to work with plus I figured it was not critical at this stage.
For now I have nothing connected to the two ground pins(wasn't sure what to do with them) Do I connect them together?
I'm getting music but still no dice with the 24-96 files.

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 7 Nov 2011, 03:04 am
I've got the BNC pin hooked up to the input pin with a short length of the same shielded wire that was originally used to connect to the selector switch.
I used the same wire to connect the BNC input to board but removed the shield as it was easier to work with plus I figured it was not critical at this stage.
For now I have nothing connected to the two ground pins(wasn't sure what to do with them) Do I connect them together?
I'm getting music but still no dice with the 24-96 files.

The shield is highly critical. You are dealing with RF frequencies. Run SHIELDED 75 ohm coax from the BNC connector to the PCB. Run shielded 75 ohm coax from the BNC output to input. Use the shield on each one of the coax to connect the two grounds.

Defeat any and all software mods to the Touch. Run only stock settings until you solve the hardware issues. If you still can't get it to work, pack it up and send it off to me. Be prepared to wait a few weeks until I can get to it.
Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Turnandcough on 9 Nov 2011, 01:03 am
24-96 working again. I had no idea the shielding was so critical.
By comparing your directives and a picture I had of the original wiring(before I yanked it) I finally figured out the "shield to ground" thing.

Many thanks for your patience and generosity.

Now let's see what I could screw up next...

While on topic - any opinions on swapping the two 3.3 film caps on the output? I tried Solen and Auricap and both were inferior to the original ones which I ended up putting back. Solen fastcaps had good detail but highs were too harsh.  Auricap had smoother highs but sounded dull and lacked dynamics.
Was wondering if anything more exotic(V-Cap OIMP, Mundorf SIO) would be worthwhile or just a waste of $$$

Title: Re: Eastern Electric DAC
Post by: Wayne1 on 9 Nov 2011, 03:18 am
The output caps do make quite a difference in sound. They also take many weeks to break-in.

With mods, a lot of the choices are limited by the available space to physically mount the caps.

In the mod I offer, I use Sonicaps with 0.1 uF bypasses. If you could fit them, OIMP should sound great. Blends of different film types are lots fun to try.

The Sabre chip is VERY sensitive to noise. Before you play with the output caps, I would suggest you look into the diodes used in the PS.  :wink: