The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread

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Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #40 on: 3 Mar 2016, 05:18 pm »
Sorry Danny, you are wrong on this one.  I doubt that you listened to the new wax foils....you probably listened to the ones that have film inside.  These use paper and wax.  They completely destroy the sound of the Erse coils you use in all your speakers.  Exactly the opposite of what you said.  The Erse coils sound muddy, muddy and more muddy.  The Wax foils sound glorious.  I trust my ears.  Maybe Mike or Jeff will try them and report back....folks, trust your ears....not someone elses.  Again, these are the new WAX and PAPER coil foils that have only been available for a couple of years.  I have never tried the older film ones.  Why would I use a coil that sounds worse?  No way would I ever go back to the Erse 16 gauge super cheap coils.  They don't pass half the info.

Bye the way, Parts Express (the Jantzen dealer) does not carry many values and none of the 12 gauge that you would want for the midrange.  You must custom order them from Parts Express....depending on when they place their orders could take as long as 2 months.  You can get right away a 16 gauge to try on the tweeter......but the midrange one is the glory one......makes more difference.

These coils cost considerably more than the 16 gauge Erse coils (especially the 12 gauge ones)....they are not cheap.

Before I tried these coils I tried the Jensen 12 gauge paper wax foil coils that I ordered directly from Denmark for about $160 delivered (2X .56mh).  These were really muddy as well (probably the super thick foil).......that is why I ordered the Jantzens to see if they were any good.......indeed they are.  The Jensens coils are used by Vapor Audio so I thought they must be good.  Trust no ones ears but your own.

It may have been the older version that I tried. I don't have them here anymore and cannot confirm. I still hesitate to use inductors made from recycled material that is low purity though.

Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #41 on: 3 Mar 2016, 05:39 pm »
Because Erse states on their website that Jantzen uses recycled copper does not make it so.....especially for these newer ones.  They have been claiming this for years. 

Here is what Danny is quoting: http://www.erseaudio.com/Purity-Guarantee

You can quote me here:  "The 12 gauge Jantzen wax foil coils sound way more transparent than the 16 gauge Erse wire wound coils used on a Neo 10".  This has been tested by the most sensitive thing known to man.....the human ear.

I have never listened to the Erse, Alpha Core, Mundorf, Dueland foil coils or any other coils.  Only to those mentioned.  There may be better coils than the Jantzen wax foils.

Danny, the only way to know what I say is correct or not is to listen to them.  Custom order some 12 gauge wax foils for the midrange on your Super 7 and install them with the input going into the center of the coil and report back......you will be amazed!.  Meanwhile, you can order some 14 and 16 gauge ones and try them on the tweeter.

The Erse wire wound coils are fine for your less expensive kits....but when using great midranges on an open baffle (like the Neo 8/10, TGKs and your new expensive mids, upcoming coax?) you really need more transparent parts for the xover, otherwise they are being held back.
« Last Edit: 3 Mar 2016, 06:46 pm by Ric Schultz »

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #42 on: 3 Mar 2016, 05:52 pm »
Because Erse states on their website that Jantzen uses recycled copper does not make it so.....especially for these newer ones.  They have been claiming this for years. 

Here is what Danny is quoting: http://www.erseaudio.com/Purity-Guarantee

You can quote me here:  "The Jantzen wax foil coils sound way more transparent than the 16 gauge Erse wire wound coils".  This has been tested by the most sensitive thing known to man.....the human ear.

I have never listened to the Erse, Alpha Core, Mundorf, Dueland foil coils or any other coils.  Only to those mentioned.  There may be better coils than the Jantzen wax foils.

I had an e-mail discussion with someone from Jantzen that did not deny the use of recycled material in their Chinese made inductors. They had never independently had the purity tested and they didn't really seemed to concerned by it.

Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #43 on: 3 Mar 2016, 07:35 pm »
The only truth in audio is how something sounds.  Whether or not these newer coils (that you have not heard) are made from old tin cans or whatever.......what I know is that they sound glorious.  If you are interested in glorious sound then they are worth trying.  Nothing tried=nothing gained.

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #44 on: 3 Mar 2016, 08:26 pm »
For me it always comes back to how does it sound.

Ric, You might want to try some of the other brands of foil inductors.

Ric Schultz

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #45 on: 3 Mar 2016, 09:36 pm »
I am very happy with these inductors (totally trouncing the 16 gauge Erse wire and 12 gauge wax/foil Jensen).  If you have some 12 gauge .56 mh foil coils then send them to me (this is for anyone, not just Danny).  I will evaluate them versus the Jantzen and let everyone know what I hear.

bdp24

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #46 on: 4 Mar 2016, 01:10 am »
The battle of the golden ears! I have products from both gentlemen, a pair of Danny's superb OB/Dipole subs (which I will be removing from their old W-frames and putting in the far superior H-frames I just got from Jay---Captainhemo), and Ric's seriously-modified Audible Illusions Modulus 2 pre-amp. Both gents have very high standards in sound quality, highly-developed listening skills, and world-class systems. What's a boy to make of their disagreement?!

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #47 on: 4 Mar 2016, 01:32 am »
The battle of the golden ears! I have products from both gentlemen, a pair of Danny's superb OB/Dipole subs (which I will be removing from their old W-frames and putting in the far superior H-frames I just got from Jay---Captainhemo), and Ric's seriously-modified Audible Illusions Modulus 2 pre-amp. Both gents have very high standards in sound quality, highly-developed listening skills, and world-class systems. What's a boy to make of their disagreement?!

Not much of a disagreement really. It sounds like we have listened to and compared two different things. What I had wasn't the paper and wax verity, and even if the foil was a low grade Copper, it still might sound really good. But Ric hasn't listened to the other types of foil inductors like the others that I stock. I bet if you put us in the same room with the same gear we would probably come to the same conclusions.

bdp24

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #48 on: 4 Mar 2016, 04:35 am »
Yeah, I was jesting. You and Ric agree on too many other things to hear the coils differently.

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #49 on: 13 Mar 2016, 08:46 pm »
Another Super 7 owner checking in here.  Guess we are up to 5 now  :thumb:

The Super 7's are amazing.  How good?  Well I have had a ton of speakers in my life (including some very good DIY ones I built), and there is a thriving audiophile scene here in CO so I've heard a ton of great speakers.  Plus I've done a little bit of listening to some speakers at Rocky Mountain Audiofest over the last 10 years  :o :lol: 

The Super 7's are the best speakers I've ever heard, except for the OB Line Array's that Danny built for Mockingbird Audio.  How good are the S7's?  Well if you haven't noticed, I went from a fairly prolific poster here on AC to posting pretty much zero.  And it's mainly because I no longer have that little nagging voice of doubt in the back of my brain "Is my system really that good?  Could it be even better?"  Nowadays I know, in my gut, that there's nothing better for my to aspire to.  So I mostly just sit back and enjoy the tunes.  Which kills my desire to post, or even read about audio. 

I will say this about the S7's.  They are supremely transparent, so you have to feed them a good signal for them to sound their best.  But they are not unforgiving like some other speakers are with less than perfect electronics.  You can have a good-but-not-great system in front of them and they don't scream at you.  In fact they still sound incredibly engaging and musical.  But as you put better stuff in the chain, they just get better and better. 

I'm using a custom built First Watt Burning Amp 3 (the best amp Nelson Pass has designed, IMO, and I've heard all of them at this point).  My preamp is a custom built Mike Galusha special - we adapted a Hynes preamp to use 6SN7's and 6BL7's, the 2 best sounding line level tubes out there, again IMO.  We basically created it as a space (and cost) no object design.  I've only heard one preamp that's better, the First Sound preamp Emmanuel brought to RMAF 4 years ago.  Mine also doubles as a freaking amazing headphone amp for my Beyter T1's (and Emmanuel's doesn't...).  My DAC is a very modest iFi Micro iDSD running on battery power with an iUSB 3 signal purifier in front of it along with a couple of Regen signal regenerators.  The iFi is the best I've heard up till you get to the Vega.  The Vega is they best I've heard till you get to the MSB Analog DAC. 

But here's the funny thing - I know that the Vega is better than the iFi and I can easily afford it.  BUT I JUST DON'T CARE!  What????? How the F' did that happen?  I'm a serial "upgrader" and I have been all my life.  My only possible explanation is this - there's a certain threshold of quality that, once you attain it, just satisfies you and you stop worrying about the rest. 

Here are my S7's, which I listen to every single day:











Rocket_Ronny

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #50 on: 13 Mar 2016, 09:11 pm »
Nice.

Rocket Ronny

bdp24

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #51 on: 13 Mar 2016, 10:59 pm »
I still have yet to hear the upper drivers, but this design at least is right up my alley. The OB Subs with planar mids and highs---can't beat it!

Tyson

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #52 on: 13 Mar 2016, 11:07 pm »
I still have yet to hear the upper drivers, but this design at least is right up my alley. The OB Subs with planar mids and highs---can't beat it!

Yes, I had OB bass in some DIY speakers I built and while OB bass can be better than box bass, it's not until you add the servo function to the equation that things REALLY take off.  Danny's OB Servo bass is flat out the best in the business.  But it wasn't until the Super 7's that he came up with a top half that matched the quality of the bass.  That's what makes the S7's such a class leader - great sound from top to bottom with no weaknesses.  That's a VERY hard trick to pull off.

bdp24

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #53 on: 13 Mar 2016, 11:17 pm »
Danny was already a proponent of OB bass, but when he learned of Rythmik's Brian Ding's Servo-feedback design he realized how combining the two would make for a new State-Of-The-Art in bass reproduction!

jeffreybehr

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #54 on: 14 Mar 2016, 07:28 am »
Another Super 7 owner checking in here.  Guess we are up to 5 now  :thumb:
...

Welcome and TY for joining us.  I think I love the sounds of my system about as much as you love yours, but I'm still improving crossover parts and wiring. 

I thought not so long ago (a week?) that I was finished playing with amps since the 200WPC-too-much c-j ET250s hybrid stereo amp sounded SO good and as good as my mildly improved First watt J2s, but I'm now fantasizing about a local pair of early-version Antique Sound Lab AQ1006 SET monoamps (845-based, with 6SL7 and 6SN7 frontend tubes and rated at 22 Watts) that are HIGHLY affordable.  We'll see about those.  I'm also thinking about the current-version Atma-Sphere M-60 monoamps, but those are about $6.5K more expensive than the ASLs. 

I hope you continue to enjoy your system; I sure love mine.   :)
Speaking of improving crossover parts, I asked my favorite Mundorf dealer to price a pair of Silver/gold* 1mH/14g. inductors.  I did NOT buy them since I do not have $5300 lying about!   :roll:

FWIW, I'll be using all-copper-foil inductors--Alpha-Core 1mH/14g. for the MR series filter and Goertz/Bridgeport 16g. for the treble shunt and MR comp. network.

* an alloy of 99% ultra-high-purity silver and 1% ultra-high-purity gold

zybar

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #55 on: 14 Mar 2016, 11:56 am »
How much do the Super 7's cost and are they available?

George

kingdeezie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #56 on: 14 Mar 2016, 01:32 pm »
How much do the Super 7's cost and are they available?

George

20K, I believe.

I think Danny might have a pair for sale, but other than that, they are not available.  The drivers are discontinued.

Danny Richie

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #57 on: 14 Mar 2016, 02:29 pm »
I kept a personal pair of these because they were one of the best sounding speakers that I have ever heard. But I'm moving to a new location and I have speakers running out my ears. So I really need to thin the herd down a bit. So I'd let them go for the right price.

My biggest problem is that I can't leave a favorite pair in the system for very long because I am always working on new designs. So I have something new in there all the time.

jeffreybehr

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Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #58 on: 15 Mar 2016, 05:42 am »
How much do the Super-7s cost and are they available?
George

Well, George, looks as if Danny's pair is available; go get 'em!

King...'s comment is correct--the original recommended retail was $20K.  The one pair I saw for sale last year was purchased for $8K by someone on our thread, and there's only one other pair ever built.  (That is, there were only 6 pairs made according to Danny, and we've found 5.)

Additional advantages not frequently mentioned are their high sensitivity at 97dB and their lowish impedance (4 Ohms) and quite benign phase behavior.  I drove mine quite successfully with 8-Watt SETs last year.

zybar

Re: The OFFICIAL Super-7 thread
« Reply #59 on: 15 Mar 2016, 11:20 am »
Well, George, looks as if Danny's pair is available; go get 'em!

King...'s comment is correct--the original recommended retail was $20K.  The one pair I saw for sale last year was purchased for $8K by someone on our thread, and there's only one other pair ever built.  (That is, there were only 6 pairs made according to Danny, and we've found 5.)

Additional advantages not frequently mentioned are their high sensitivity at 97dB and their lowish impedance (4 Ohms) and quite benign phase behavior.  I drove mine quite successfully with 8-Watt SETs last year.

I did contact Danny yesterday.

As usual, he was super responsive and great to "chat" with.

We were a good deal apart on price, so it will need to be somebody else who gets his speakers.

George