AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The Discless Circle => Topic started by: wushuliu on 16 Nov 2011, 11:07 pm

Title: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 16 Nov 2011, 11:07 pm
I have spent the past few weeks messing around again with various audio software. It seems we are turning a corner in terms of how many options are now available but have not yet reached a balance between affordability, performance, and ease of use. Still I thought I'd share my recent and not so recent discoveries - please excuse me if I kind of jump all over the place.

Reclock
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ReClock-Directshow-Filter (http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ReClock-Directshow-Filter)

Reclock is a program I read about on head-fi, mostly trumpeted by user 'leeperry'. Since head-fi is not exactly the most audiophile forum, it made a little bit of a splash but not much. Too bad as he is right, it is an outstanding audio renderer. It is easy to configure for Wasapi Exclusive playback and the sound quality is top-notch. It can be used as a third party renderer with other programs including JRiver (don't quote me on that). I have used it with lesser known programs KMPlayer and PotPlayer and best of all

Media Player Classic Home Cinema
http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/ (http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/)

Yep, little old Media Player Classic has now been made into an audio/video powerhouse whilst retaining it's minimal interface and footprint. The playback quality when using ReClock as the audio renderer ranks second to Jplay, but kick in Fidelizer and I think it goes toe to toe with the exception of Jplay's Hibernation Mode. MPC just sounds more musical to my ears but Jplay does have a level of fidelity that keeps it slightly ahead. This is my go to player. Also, it's free. Jplay, not so much.

Fidelizer

The newest Fidelizer (2.1) is a must-have tweak before using any audio software. It has never failed to improve my listening experience to some degree or another regardless of program used.  Use it in conjunction with Reclock and MPCHC (Media Player Classic Home Cinema) or any audio program.


Jplay
http://jplay.eu/ (http://jplay.eu/)

I'd been reading about Jplay for a while and finally decided to give it a whirl. This little program is the real deal. It's like the anti-XXHighend; just choose from a couple of playback options and hit the space bar. No zillion of options and dials and buttons to tinker with. Heck, no GUI at all. It's real ace in the hole is the Hibernate Mode. Playback in hibernate mode is close to magical. The lack of volume control options (they do offer -6db increments as of the latest version) and mp3 playback not so much. Since my output is straight to amp, this makes jplay impractical. But for everyone else you HAVE to try it out. The lack of mp3 playback made me think of trying put something I haven't done for a long time -

Mp3/Flac to Wav conversion

I have a lot of my files in flac and mp3. In other threads I've mentioned preferring wav to flac, but given the jplay restriction mentioned above I thought I'd confirm another impression I had - I prefer  mp3s converted to wav. No, it's not a night and day difference. No, I don't believe the conversion adds anything that isn't there. What it does do is flesh out the depth and imaging of the file. I've had to do this conversion several times over the years even before I was bitten by the audiophile bug and the impression has always been the same. Wav just sounds better. So I downloaded db Poweramp and am now converting all my flac and mp3 to wav.

Windows 8
http://www.buildwindows.com/ (http://www.buildwindows.com/)

On the Jplay forum co-creator Marcin mentioned improved audio quality when using Windows 8. Setup was simple and easier than any other windows. I installed W8 and after a few minutes getting used to the layout I began demoing some of the programs mentioned above. Aside from the fact that W8 is actually kind of cool, the sound quality is indeed terrific. Transparency and width improved and a delicacy to the playback I have never heard on W7.

Linux

Every now and again for kicks I like to try out different linux distros. This time I went looking to compare sound quality. Per usual, I end up being incredibly unimpressed with the GUI. There's something pre-schoolish about the look; pastel colors, large icons - like it's trying to convince how EASY it is to use. Of the ones I tried only Linux Mint had me listening to music from my USB DAC out the box. The sound quality ws actually very good but I could detect processing. A little research led me to a world of confusion and command lines. It seems audiophile sound quality is not easy to achieve. Too bad, because I think linux would the perfect tool to for audiophile music player (note I said player, not just server a la VoyageMPD which has only remote GUI).

XBMC
http://xbmc.org/skins/ (http://xbmc.org/skins/)

Surprised not see more mention of XBMC here. It is hands-down my favorite music interface. It is so slick and polished and accessible you just want to show it off. The sound quality is also IMO very good. Yes it does downsample everything to 16/44 and it's not quite bit-perfect but with WASAPI it still sounds very good. It throws a huge soundstage and music is dynamic. I found it involving if not with the rarefied fidelity of Jplay. And it looks so cool! I may very well go back to it. It is also a GREAT for video playback.


There are so many variables that I don't expect others to necessarily have the same experience, but it's also good to experiment and I wanted to throw out some other easy to use options. At this point I consider programs like Foobar, MediaMonkey, J River, etc. to be bottom rung in terms of sound quality compared to the ones mentioned above.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Mike B. on 18 Nov 2011, 08:39 pm
Thanks for the recommendations. I just downloaded Fidelizer. I really like it. It offers options on what it will do. I chose the Audiophile option. Which do you recommend?
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 18 Nov 2011, 10:41 pm
The highest option that does not compromise your needs. I like to keep internet going so I do the custom but check the network box...
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mjock3 on 19 Nov 2011, 03:53 am
Thanks a bunch for sharing what you have heard Wushuliu!! I plan on checking some of these things out. I have jplay and do appreciate what it can do for the music. Some of the others I have never heard of.

So thanks again!

Mark
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Noseyears on 21 Nov 2011, 11:41 pm
Good stuff there, this should be a sticky. Are you planning to add more programs to that list? It would b awesome.  8)
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mjock3 on 22 Nov 2011, 12:19 am
You know I had read about the Windows 8 on jplay's site as well but never went looking for it. The link you provided was all I needed to get going. And I have to say for the First time I am actually looking forward to a new Windows. The difference in sound is amazing. Thanks!
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: toddbagwell on 22 Nov 2011, 01:37 pm
Stickied!  :thumb:

 
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Nov 2011, 05:43 pm
You know I had read about the Windows 8 on jplay's site as well but never went looking for it. The link you provided was all I needed to get going. And I have to say for the First time I am actually looking forward to a new Windows. The difference in sound is amazing. Thanks!

Thanks Todd!

@noseyears. I will update if I come across any players/tweaks worth mentioning (IMO).

@ mjock3   Yes I hope more folks try it out. I did some comparisons with SSD, regular SATA hard drive and W7 and 8. Windows 8 and SSD = new benchmark in windows audio playback quality. Now I am contemplating buying SSD for my music files ($$$!).

Another plus is that W8 install is fairly quick and the boot time is only a few seconds.

Fun! :D
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: lag0a on 27 Nov 2011, 07:50 am
An Sata spinning hard drive is annoying with the spinning noise but still the best bang for the buck per GB. SSD doesn't spin or make any noise which is a big plus but they differ too much in their controller and quality. I'm still skeptical about the lifespan of SSDs. Windows accesses the hard drive far greater than Linux so a SSD with fast access times and speed should help Windows tremendously.

I think even using Linux my sata hard drive sounds like it is spinning at a lesser speed and doesn't seem as loud compared to windows. Not sure if it is idling more in Linux.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: slingshot on 28 Nov 2011, 05:17 pm
I have spent hours trying to get JPlay to work. Posted in their forum and received answers but it still won't play. It does load the tracks. Not very user friendly in my opinion, like the old DOS programs of 20 years ago. One issue is that I have to run it as an adminstrator even though I am the adminstrator. Don't know why. I'm not a computer expert that's for sure. Maybe someone has some suggestions. Will try the Classic program.  :cry:
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: lag0a on 28 Nov 2011, 09:30 pm
I use Windows 7 x64. I tried the jplay trial version and it worked for me. When you first try it you are asked to reboot. After the reboot I right clicked a flac file to copy so jplay recognizes it and played it. I don't know how it didn't work for your system.

The combination that I've come up with that I currently like hearing in Windows 7 x64 is MPC-HC, Reclock, and madFlac.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: DougSmith on 1 Dec 2011, 01:12 pm
I noticed an improvement using Reclock with Google Chrome for MOG streaming, which is my main music source these days.  I use MPC-HC with MadVR for mkv playback (bluray rips), but haven't tried it yet for music files.  Have you tried Reclock with MPC-HC in that context?  Does Fidelizer really make that much of a difference?
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: lag0a on 1 Dec 2011, 08:43 pm
MPC-HC works well with Reclock but needs tweaking with the settings for bit exact playback. I tried MPC-HC with lav audio decoder but madFlac is better but only works with flac I think as the name implies. When I first tried Fidelizer I could hear a difference for the better and stuck with it ever since.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: whell on 1 Dec 2011, 09:01 pm
Actually, Linux is fairly easy to set up for bit-perfect playback.  Since there is less info out there about music programs for Linux (compared to Foobar or J River for example), it might take a bit of poking around to get the set up parameters correct.  Just like Windows takes a bit of message to get bit perfect (WASAPI / ASIO set up, picking the right player, tweaking Windows features to free up processing power / memory usage), installing the right player and making a tweak or two (actually fewer tweaks than necessary in Windows 7) gets you bit-perfect audio in Linux pretty quickly.  I'm using Ubuntu, and from inserting the install disk to bit-perfect output was about 45 minutes.

EDIT: by the way, if you heard "processing" with Linux Mint, you were likely running the signal through Pulse Audio.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're trying for bit-perfect playback.  You can configure players like Quadlibet and Deadbeef to bypass Pulse Audio, go directly to the ALSA sound system, and use ALSA for bit-perfect playback to your external DAC or internal sound card. 
Title: Shut down win 8
Post by: hoxuanduc on 2 Dec 2011, 07:02 am
To shut down win 8, you have to hover the mouse over the start button until a sub menu appears, click setting, then click the power button at the bottom of the sub screen to the right, then click shut down!!! How the hell does burying the shut down button two level deep in the setting menu pass usability testing at MicroSucks???

Unbelievable!!!

Duc
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 2 Dec 2011, 07:43 am
Actually, Linux is fairly easy to set up for bit-perfect playback.  Since there is less info out there about music programs for Linux (compared to Foobar or J River for example), it might take a bit of poking around to get the set up parameters correct.  Just like Windows takes a bit of message to get bit perfect (WASAPI / ASIO set up, picking the right player, tweaking Windows features to free up processing power / memory usage), installing the right player and making a tweak or two (actually fewer tweaks than necessary in Windows 7) gets you bit-perfect audio in Linux pretty quickly.  I'm using Ubuntu, and from inserting the install disk to bit-perfect output was about 45 minutes.

EDIT: by the way, if you heard "processing" with Linux Mint, you were likely running the signal through Pulse Audio.  That's not necessarily a bad thing, unless you're trying for bit-perfect playback.  You can configure players like Quadlibet and Deadbeef to bypass Pulse Audio, go directly to the ALSA sound system, and use ALSA for bit-perfect playback to your external DAC or internal sound card.

Again, all easier said than done where Linux is concerned. If someone wants to detail a step by step ( and I mean step by step not just do this and then just do that), I'd be more than willing to give it a go.

Yes it was Pulse Audio. My 24/96 USB DAC was not detected otherwise...
Title: Re: Shut down win 8
Post by: wushuliu on 2 Dec 2011, 07:45 am
To shut down win 8, you have to hover the mouse over the start button until a sub menu appears, click setting, then click the power button at the bottom of the sub screen to the right, then click shut down!!! How the hell does burying the shut down button two level deep in the setting menu pass usability testing at MicroSucks???

Unbelievable!!!

Duc

... or you can Alt-F4  :wink:

Small price to pay for the sound quality.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 2 Dec 2011, 07:49 am
I have spent hours trying to get JPlay to work. Posted in their forum and received answers but it still won't play. It does load the tracks. Not very user friendly in my opinion, like the old DOS programs of 20 years ago. One issue is that I have to run it as an adminstrator even though I am the adminstrator. Don't know why. I'm not a computer expert that's for sure. Maybe someone has some suggestions. Will try the Classic program.  :cry:

Yes, it is very purist. However you can apparently use other software to load into it like J River, etc if you need an interface. Hope you get it figured out.
Title: Re: Shut down win 8
Post by: hoxuanduc on 2 Dec 2011, 08:19 am
... or you can Alt-F4  :wink:

Small price to pay for the sound quality.

I vented because the whole family uses the HTPC for movies, music, games, etc. Even the 4 year-old uses it for cartoons and pbskids.org, so the new UI is a no no for us. A bit of googling shows how to disable the new UI by regedit, so I get my start menu back!

Thanks, Wushuliu!
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Aleg on 2 Dec 2011, 09:44 am
Yes, it is very purist. However you can apparently use other software to load into it like J River, etc if you need an interface. Hope you get it figured out.

If all remained the same as in the preview I received than from this weekend you will have a new version with an integration of JPlay with Foobar or iTunes.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 2 Dec 2011, 10:24 am
If all remained the same as in the preview I received than from this weekend you will have a new version with an integration of JPlay with Foobar or iTunes.

Thank you for the update, Aleg!
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: whell on 2 Dec 2011, 09:48 pm
Again, all easier said than done where Linux is concerned. If someone wants to detail a step by step ( and I mean step by step not just do this and then just do that), I'd be more than willing to give it a go.

Yes it was Pulse Audio. My 24/96 USB DAC was not detected otherwise...

Actually, it is pretty easy.  The link below tells you how to easily get bit-perfect set up in Ubuntu.  These steps should also work for any of the Ubuntu Gnome variants (i.e. Linux Mint), as well as other distros.

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/SUPPORT/Manuals/Linux%20Ubuntu%20OS%20&%20Zodiac.pdf

Note that only certain players on Linux will allow you to achieve bit-pefect playback.  Like Foobar or J River in Windows, you might need to enter the "Preferences" menu of your Linux music player of choice - as is shown on the attachment - and tweak some settings.  However, once you do, you may find that there's likely less tweaking and fiddling in Linux to get you where you want to be. 

Also note that, like Windows, not all music players allow you to achieve bit-perfect playback of high-res music files.  The players that are the most "popular" on the Linux platform - Banshee and Rhythmbox for example - may be much more challenging to achieve bit-perfect, if you can achieve it with these players at all.  A player like Audacious or deabdeef might be great players to start experimenting with, because set up optimization is point and click.  They are simple to use and lightweight.  If you want a more feature rich player, you can try Quodlibet or others.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: DougSmith on 3 Dec 2011, 12:29 am
I tried adding Fidelizer on top of Reclock.  I'm not sure if it really sounds better because it's not possible to switch back and forth, but it certainly doesn't sound any worse.
Title: Computer audio has finally come of age with JPlay v4!!!
Post by: hoxuanduc on 5 Dec 2011, 06:00 pm
JPlay v4 now integrates with Foobar and iTunes. Yea!!!

You can still play JPlaymini on its own without much of an UI but with excellent sound quality, or have JPlay loaded in foobar as an DLL for convenience + great sound quality.

My search for digital transport is over. :thumb:

Duc
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: toddbagwell on 20 Dec 2011, 10:21 pm
I spent the past few days installing, tweaking and listening to JPlay.

I am a fan. It takes the iTunes interface I've grown accustomed to, and makes the music sing! I'm very happy with the combination of the two programs.

no matter how well I tagged my music, every time I'd try to switch to foobar or JRiver, I'd loose roughly 20-30% of my metadata (AIFF, all art embedded etc.) and that was enough to keep me stuck with itunes on a PC.

Now, the music sounds great, I've got automatic sample rate switching, and with all that RAM I put into my new music PC, JPlay has tons of room for memory playback.

The support from the two programmers/owners of Jplay was amazing, despite being 6 time zones away, they got me up and running with email exchanges that felt more like instant messaging, they were THAT fast!

At some point I'll likely compare HDD, SSD, and Network playback, but for now, I'm just going to listen.


Thanks for pointing out the program wushuliu!

  :drums:
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Sep 2012, 09:39 am
Jplay's creators have been trumpeting this for a while: for those looking to get even better performance out of Jplay, install bootable Windows 8 on a USB stick and run the OS from it. This a big step forward in performance and worth the hassle. Windows 8 is not set to be released proper until next month but the RTM is available for download and the Consumer Preview as well. I am currently using CP 32bit and will try RTM 64 in a few days.

One procedure to install can be found here:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/ordering-windows-to-go-how-to-create-a-bootable-windows-8-usb-thumb-drive/ (http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/ordering-windows-to-go-how-to-create-a-bootable-windows-8-usb-thumb-drive/)

The directions are easy to follow, just give yourself a couple hours set aside in case you make a mistake typing commands, copy paste etc. It is absolutely worth it. I have not tried other software yet, perhaps they show improvement as well. Jplay now sounds 'purer', I don't know the words really because Jplay sounds terrific already, but frickin' better. A LOT better.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mgalusha on 23 Sep 2012, 02:59 pm
I've been using W8 RTM 64bit on my player since it was released to developers & partners in mid August and for whatever reason it does seem to sound better than W7. I have not tried it from a USB stick, that is an interesting thought, I have an extra 8gb stick laying about. Thanks for the tip.

I received an email from JPlay the other day with a link to the new release, have not had a chance to install it but given their history, it too offers a step up.

Jplay's creators have been trumpeting this for a while: for those looking to get even better performance out of Jplay, install bootable Windows 8 on a USB stick and run the OS from it. This a big step forward in performance and worth the hassle. Windows 8 is not set to be released proper until next month but the RTM is available for download and the Consumer Preview as well. I am currently using CP 32bit and will try RTM 64 in a few days.

One procedure to install can be found here:

http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/ordering-windows-to-go-how-to-create-a-bootable-windows-8-usb-thumb-drive/ (http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/03/ordering-windows-to-go-how-to-create-a-bootable-windows-8-usb-thumb-drive/)

The directions are easy to follow, just give yourself a couple hours set aside in case you make a mistake typing commands, copy paste etc. It is absolutely worth it. I have not tried other software yet, perhaps they show improvement as well. Jplay now sounds 'purer', I don't know the words really because Jplay sounds terrific already, but frickin' better. A LOT better.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mgalusha on 23 Sep 2012, 03:12 pm
Hmm, looks like I need to pick up a 32gb usb stick. I do have a spare 60g SSD, might try that in an external usb drive case. Certainly faster than a flash drive.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: django11 on 23 Sep 2012, 04:03 pm
I tried Jplay with J.River  (ok guys, try naming something with another letter than J please  :scratch:) on Win7 and honestly I can't hear a difference even though I wanted to.  I didn't try the hibernate mode as I am using my computer for other stuff as I listen to music.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 23 Sep 2012, 04:16 pm
I tried Jplay with J.River  (ok guys, try naming something with another letter than J please  :scratch:) on Win7 and honestly I can't hear a difference even though I wanted to.  I didn't try the hibernate mode as I am using my computer for other stuff as I listen to music.

Did you compare J River vs. Jplay mini or vs Jplay/River? Jplay w/ JR does not sound as good to my ears as the mini. I actually *prefer* JRiver kernel streaming to Jplay w/JR plugin depending on the material, but jplaymini I can single out immediately as the preferred delivery.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: django11 on 23 Sep 2012, 09:05 pm
I downloaded Fidelizer too now.  How do I get rid of it?  Just end the process in task manager?  I was trying to compare Jplay mini with JRiver and for some reason JRiver is sort of skipping or hanging momentarily.  I ended Fidelizer in the task manager, uninstalled Jplay and tried putting JRiver settings back to what worked well (if I remember them correctly  :duh:) and augmented buffering as that is supposed to be more skip resistant.  The problem persists  :scratch:...  I won't have time to play around with this for a few days.  Computer generated music is fun when it works and a royal pain in the ass when it doesn't...
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mjock3 on 23 Sep 2012, 09:16 pm
Reboot, and fidelizer is gone. Though you will need to reset your home page.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: charmerci on 24 Sep 2012, 01:04 am

I received an email from JPlay the other day with a link to the new release, have not had a chance to install it but given their history, it too offers a step up.

I updated to JRiver 18 and it keeps eliminating itself from my system.  :(  I'll try again today.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mgalusha on 24 Sep 2012, 01:33 am
I updated to JRiver 18 and it keeps eliminating itself from my system.  :(  I'll try again today.

That's no fun, I received email about the v18 beta and a discounted upgrade price but I don't  see a good reason to pay for beta testing jriver.

I did as wushuilu mentioned, created a win 8 portable install using a 60g ssd with a usb 3 enclosure, seems good but not sure if there's any improvement over an internal ssd. Definitely going to listen for a few days to each, as simple as a reboot.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: satfrat on 24 Sep 2012, 01:46 am
I updated to JRiver 18 and it keeps eliminating itself from my system.  :(  I'll try again today.

FWIW, MC18 is working just fine with my Win XP.  :thumb:
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: charmerci on 24 Sep 2012, 02:32 am
A box opened and said (I forgot exactly) "...would you like to?" Yes/No. So I picked one. Everything was fine. But then it asked me again, so I chose the other answer and it eliminated my access to JRiver. So I went to the site and got another download (restored my license.) It worked fine until it wasn't there again when I started my computer today. So restored my license again, but it slowed down then froze my computer.

But now it seems to running fine. Should have done more before getting on here.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Sep 2012, 03:03 am
That's no fun, I received email about the v18 beta and a discounted upgrade price but I don't  see a good reason to pay for beta testing jriver.

I did as wushuilu mentioned, created a win 8 portable install using a 60g ssd with a usb 3 enclosure, seems good but not sure if there's any improvement over an internal ssd. Definitely going to listen for a few days to each, as simple as a reboot.

It's recommended for specifically a usb flash drive, not ssd or external hdd...
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mgalusha on 24 Sep 2012, 03:24 am
It's recommended for specifically a usb flash drive, not ssd or external hdd...

Hmm, OK, well perhaps I'll pick up a 32G flash drive tomorrow. The good part is I can just copy the image I've already configured on the SSD over to the flash drive and not have to redo the image and installs. Looks like Microcenter has 32G USB 3 flash drives in stock.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Sep 2012, 03:57 am
Hmm, OK, well perhaps I'll pick up a 32G flash drive tomorrow. The good part is I can just copy the image I've already configured on the SSD over to the flash drive and not have to redo the image and installs. Looks like Microcenter has 32G USB 3 flash drives in stock.

Yeah, the focus appears to be the flash drive, not the usb interface. I've done external hdd usb (although not as a boot disk) and found improvement marginal w/ jplay.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: JohnR on 24 Sep 2012, 10:33 am
Jplay's creators have been trumpeting this for a while: for those looking to get even better performance out of Jplay, install bootable Windows 8 on a USB stick and run the OS from it.

I'm quite curious about this - is there a reason for preferring a USB stick over an SSD? When I measured one, a USB stick was quite slow even compared to HDD.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 24 Sep 2012, 02:40 pm
Has anyone looked at:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/

Alex
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: mgalusha on 24 Sep 2012, 03:03 pm
Has anyone looked at:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/

Alex

Had not seen that, appreciate it.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 24 Sep 2012, 03:34 pm
You might be interested in this as well....folks from Jriver, DBPoweramp developers and others have lots to say about this "product"...

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92856

The only reason I post this is some have complained about the cost of other players etc...JPlay costs $99 euros...approx $130 for a 256k bytes of code?

If it works for you fine...just hate to see people well.....

Alex
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 24 Sep 2012, 03:45 pm
You might be interested in this as well....folks from Jriver, DBPoweramp developers and others have lots to say about this "product"...

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=92856

The only reason I post this is some have complained about the cost of other players etc...JPlay costs $99 euros...approx $130 for a 256k bytes of code?

If it works for you fine...just hate to see people well.....

Alex

You can't stop can you. Now we have a new straw man about 'complaints' of cost of other players to push an agenda. This thread is not about the 'complaints' by 'some people' (sounds familiar, huh). Anyone who thinks that link (or anything from Hydrogen Audio) speaks to them would not be reading this thread anyway. This thread is for discussing sound quality and different software choices, not hamster wheel debate. At least you dropped the disingenuous smiley at the end.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 24 Sep 2012, 04:53 pm
Well....

The parts in BOLD ITALICS in your post I like the best:

"I'd been reading about Jplay for a while and finally decided to give it a whirl. This little program is the real deal. It's like the anti-XXHighend; just choose from a couple of playback options and hit the space bar. No zillion of options and dials and buttons to tinker with. Heck, no GUI at all. It's real ace in the hole is the Hibernate Mode. Playback in hibernate mode is close to magical. The lack of volume control options (they do offer -6db increments as of the latest version) and mp3 playback not so much. Since my output is straight to amp, this makes jplay impractical. But for everyone else you HAVE to try it out. The lack of mp3 playback made me think of trying put something I haven't done for a long time -"

If people want to spend $99 euro's on 256kb of code that makes "your" musical experience  "magical" ...well sir theres a bridge to be sold here ......

Seems like facts and hard evidence are not needed here...this is sad.

I hope some of the more open minded people reading this will take the time to read the thread on computeraudiophile and see the facts presented and make their own
decision about this product vs excepting someones 'magical' experiences blindly....

Also take the time to read what the developers of Jriver, DBPoweramp and others have to say about JPlay AND see how JPlay responds to them!!!

There is no way I would spend a cent after reading JPlays response.

If getting at lease one person to take a look at what major vendors of other products state about this 'vaporware' then I have done my service to my fellow audiophiles.

Buyer Beware!!

Alex
 :D :D :D


Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: django11 on 25 Sep 2012, 12:52 am
Everything back to normal now and with Fidelizer working.   :thumb:
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wushuliu on 25 Sep 2012, 06:21 am
Well....

The parts in BOLD ITALICS in your post I like the best:

"I'd been reading about Jplay for a while and finally decided to give it a whirl. This little program is the real deal. It's like the anti-XXHighend; just choose from a couple of playback options and hit the space bar. No zillion of options and dials and buttons to tinker with. Heck, no GUI at all. It's real ace in the hole is the Hibernate Mode. Playback in hibernate mode is close to magical. The lack of volume control options (they do offer -6db increments as of the latest version) and mp3 playback not so much. Since my output is straight to amp, this makes jplay impractical. But for everyone else you HAVE to try it out. The lack of mp3 playback made me think of trying put something I haven't done for a long time -"

If people want to spend $99 euro's on 256kb of code that makes "your" musical experience  "magical" ...well sir theres a bridge to be sold here ......

Seems like facts and hard evidence are not needed here...this is sad.

I hope some of the more open minded people reading this will take the time to read the thread on computeraudiophile and see the facts presented and make their own
decision about this product vs excepting someones 'magical' experiences blindly....

Also take the time to read what the developers of Jriver, DBPoweramp and others have to say about JPlay AND see how JPlay responds to them!!!

There is no way I would spend a cent after reading JPlays response.

If getting at lease one person to take a look at what major vendors of other products state about this 'vaporware' then I have done my service to my fellow audiophiles.

Buyer Beware!!

Alex
 :D :D :D


What's sad is that you think you are sharing new information and saving souls. You aren't. But troll away. And if you're looking for me to bail this thread too b/c life is too short to waste on hamster wheel trolls, mission accomplished.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: JohnR on 25 Sep 2012, 07:59 am
Seems like facts and hard evidence are not needed here...this is sad.

Why don't you provide some? Apparently it's a simple matter to run a "ToS8-compliant" trial. So why don't you do it and publish the results?

I got partway through the HO thread. It's the same thing - people demanding unbiased trials yet seemingly not willing to lift a finger themselves to "prove" anything. I thought the developer of JPlay was being very reasonable, under the circumstances. Apparently no-one seems to have realized that a true unbiased trial can't be done by the developer anyway... the term commonly used is "independent third-party"...
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: django11 on 25 Sep 2012, 09:44 pm
There is a fully functional free trial of Jplay so we don't have to rely on internet food fights to make up our mind. 

In my case, I found it to be complicated and it did not to upgrade the sound of my system.  If it did anything the mini player degraded my sound.  IMO.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: boynamedsue on 27 Sep 2012, 03:03 am
I read HO thread before trying out jplay, and glad I wasnt deterred by whatever beef they had with product. In my pc system, I found jplay with fidelizer - in jmini hibernate mode - to be best player I've heard to date (vs pureplayer, reclock+kmplayer, ulilith, fb2000). I ultimately settled on pureplayer with fidelizer because it was "good enough" for me and free.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 2 Oct 2012, 10:12 pm
John...

You said:

"Why dont you provide some hard evidence???"

Did you not read:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/

Is this not hard evidence of someone that tested and provided their results???

Where is your hard evidence that proves that this 256kb code does improve ANTHING.

I will tell you this: "JPlay might make you feel good, but it won't sound better."

You can take that to the bank...

Happy feelings guys!

Alex
 :D :D :D
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: trackball02 on 2 Oct 2012, 10:46 pm
From my personal experience, I did not hear any difference running JRiver MC 17 WASAPI-Event and memory play vs. the JPLAY plug-in with JRiver MC 17.

One thing that I did notice was the JPLAY plug-in output is louder than JRiver, thus there is a perception that JPLAY is better. It took awhile to try to compensate for the volume differences, and in the end, I did not notice improvements from JPLAY.

I've now am running MC 18 and really not bothering with JPLAY anymore.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 2 Oct 2012, 10:58 pm
Hello trackball02,

Nice to meet you and I agree with your experience with JPlay.....it did not do anything to improve the bitperfect playback I have experienced with JRiver and Foobar.

I have been in PC development for years and have gone thru the rollouts from DOS 1.0, Win 98, Millenium, XP, Vista , Win7 and now Win8. I have had the first hand experience working with development engineers tuning and working with major vendors to make things better etc...many NDA's and seeing and experiencing things that most people only are guessing about.

But many of us just want to share new stuff they have "trolled" the internet for and found then proclaim them to be the newest, latest greatest thing in audio play back.

Some good some not so good.

And when you expose or throw stones on the pond of ignorance well...many ripples are formed.

At least some of us can swim!!

All the best
Alex

 :D
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: trackball02 on 3 Oct 2012, 04:08 am
Alex, What are the differences between Win 7 and 8, and why are their audio improvements with Win 8?
Is it worth the effort to upgrade to Win 8?
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: boynamedsue on 3 Oct 2012, 04:36 am
I don't recall much of a volume difference when I compared jplay with other players (never tried jriver though). To my ears, the main improvements of jplay had more to do with how it presented the music in a more natural/less digital way. I've listened to other players at higher and lower volume and could not get same natural sound as jplay.


One thing that I did notice was the JPLAY plug-in output is louder than JRiver, thus there is a perception that JPLAY is better. It took awhile to try to compensate for the volume differences, and in the end, I did not notice improvements from JPLAY.

Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: wilsynet on 3 Oct 2012, 08:09 am
The only reason I post this is some have complained about the cost of other players etc...JPlay costs $99 euros...approx $130 for a 256k bytes of code?

I have no idea how it sounds, but size of code has nothing to do with value.  If you can give me same value for less code, that's usually a good thing.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 3 Oct 2012, 01:16 pm
Track...

Sorry I cant speak to WIN 8 at this time....its still an product that is not yet released and we have NDA's we have to honor.

When its on the street in retail fashion later this month we can discuss more.

October 26 is the date.

Of course OEM vendors have to have it before that date so they can load systems for the announce date.

The retail I belive is the same date.

A.

Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Finguz on 27 Dec 2012, 12:06 pm
I'm sure I'm wasting my time and will likely be labelled a troll fro not agreeing with the thread starter but I'm going to post anyway. JPlay is snake oil at best. If the author was subjected to a blind test on 2 normally functioning and identical computers, he wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Why?

Because there isn't any difference whatsoever  :duh:

Merry Xmas, and donate your $100+ to charity if you feel you must spend it!
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 27 Dec 2012, 11:55 pm
finguz....

Its definitely snake oil, but many folks here use it....and swear but its magical mucking with windows os services etc...shutting down stuff and having wonderful sonic improvements.....I have been in pc development since PC1 and an amazed at how folks just try this stuff and then become experts etc...

Hey its your money....in this case IMO its better to send that money to your favorite charity for sure...could not agree with you more..

All the best
Merry Christmas...

Alex

Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: AKLegal on 2 Feb 2013, 03:36 pm
I tested Jplay out on my recently built CAPSv3 Zuma.  I heard no difference over my current setup (J River ->Kernel Streaming NO memory play).

I didn't realize J River had a memory play option until reading this thread just now.  I must have just overlooked it.  I am a computer guy as well.  Computer science grad and worked in IT for a number of years before going to law school :shake:.  The fact that J River has a memory player already built in makes a subsequent purchase of Jplay odd at best (aside from JPlay's tendency to be buggy even at its very small size).  It makes no sense that there would be a difference in audio quality between two programs that do exactly the same thing.  I guess it is tough for some of us to shake off the old analog audio dogmas.  This is digital though, a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0 and it doesn't matter what program wrote the 1 or 0.  Spend your money on a better computer to dac solution instead.

I know JPlay is supposed to shutdown services that are unneeded for audio, but for folks who are running a dedicated computer for media this is useless.  In my case aside from network services and device drivers, the only thing running on my system is Jriver in server mode.   You can manually shutdown any unwanted services without a secondary program running in the background and I used to do this alot with old computers to extend their life a little bit - the business world can be cheap.  You can set unwanted services to never run even on a reboot which eliminates the need for Fidelizer.

Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Say on 11 Apr 2013, 04:57 am
After reading this pinned thread I am amused and frustrated at the same time to find how silly some assumptions have become.  All of my responses will be regarding the computer as a front end. Before I do so let's use history as a guide. When CD players first came onto the scene we were amazed at the relative compact size an album could fit into. Then we were just as amazed to realize that digital music sounded different than analogue. Worse too. Piercing highs and dull midrange. Over the following years vendors created beefier power supplies and fancy capacitors and highend companies integrated them into their circuit boards for the sake of making "Perfect Sound Forever" sound more perfect. A whole slew of tweaks soon emerged in order to get that last iota of pleasure from the compact disc player. Though bits were always bits, not every bit sounded the same. How could this be? Maybe if the DAC were to be separated from the transport those bits would sound better. Afterall, 1's and 0's were best in their own little cozy home, away from cross contamination. Then along came jitter. We were told that timing, and the transmission and recovery of bits mattered.

Now we have computers as transports. We also have software that coordinates the transporting. Those 1's and 0's feel right at home. Just like the CD player/DAC combination (which also is a computer) the desktop/laptop/headless top/streamer top would send data/music files to a DAC and eventually it came out of our speakers/headphones. This coarse digital waveform resembled analogue though not as pretty. 

Now here is the part that bewilders. Those with experience will tell you that mechanical transports have a unique sound signature. An identity. So do S/PDIF cables. Things like impedance matter too. Yet, according to some knowledgeable people and even some posters here, software apparently does not matter as long as' bits are bits'. Somehow we are led to believe that finally, after all the previous decades of trial and error, that the transportation mystery of bits, also known as binary 1 and 0, has now been solved. Their quality and integrity is intact. Whew! I am glad. That's what they tell us anyway, as long as we use a bit perfect software program. Being as such all of these types of programs will sound the same considering everything else being equal. If we hear something different between a mechanical transport, software transport or whatever transport then we are only fooling ourselves.

Yet, I still hear a difference between transports of any kind. I don't know if that is due to the influence of power supplies, skin effect, slew rate, rise time, bed time, jitter, or special secret memory buffers doing their magic via special secret agent software - telling bits where to hide. Eventually it doesn't affect my perception. For my perception will tell me what I hear. One thing I do know is that if I hear it. It exists. Whatever it is.

No matter how hard they tell us that the mystery of bit transportation has finally been solved I would like to think that, just perhaps, they missed something. That very something they all missed (and maybe deceptively attempt to portray) may very well be in their own perception. As for mine. Bits are bits and they all sound different.

Next, I wonder if they will tell us that the secret of storing those bits has been solved too and how you store them does not matter. Afterall, bits are supposed to be bits. Right?
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: woody777 on 15 Apr 2013, 03:12 am
I noticed an improvement using Reclock with Google Chrome for MOG streaming, which is my main music source these days.  I use MPC-HC with MadVR for mkv playback (bluray rips), but haven't tried it yet for music files.  Have you tried Reclock with MPC-HC in that context?  Does Fidelizer really make that much of a difference?

I'm curious... How did you get Reclock working with Chrome? I love Mog, but it drives me nuts that I can't bypass the Windows mixer and use WASAPI exclusive mode. I realize your post is kind of old, but I hope you see this. Thanks!
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: doctorcilantro on 25 May 2013, 06:50 pm
Quote
One thing I do know is that if I hear it. It exists

"it" being?  It's possible to hear something that does not exist. I'd argue your statement is not a tautology.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 26 May 2013, 12:35 am
I want some of what Say was drinking when he wrote that diatribe....OMG.

I think your bits are coming from FEMA trailers....

Alex

LOL
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: toddbagwell on 26 May 2013, 02:36 pm
Guys, discussion and disagreements are fine, but posts that do nothing but insult others are not.

If you don't like or use something in your system, fine, but there is no need for posts that serve no purpose than to degrade others.

Todd
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Say on 28 Jun 2013, 01:39 am
"it" being?  It's possible to hear something that does not exist. I'd argue your statement is not a tautology.

A definition of:  Hear - To perceive sound with your ears. To perceive or sense (sounds), esp. through stimulation of auditory nerves in the ear by sound waves.

I don't know about you but I could only hear things that do exist (it). To hear sounds that don't exist (those that do not stimulate the auditory nerves) would be called a hallucination.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Say on 28 Jun 2013, 01:40 am
I want some of what Say was drinking when he wrote that diatribe....OMG.

I think your bits are coming from FEMA trailers....

Alex

LOL

Please be more precise otherwise one would not know how to receive your post.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: Say on 28 Jun 2013, 01:43 am
Guys, discussion and disagreements are fine, but posts that do nothing but insult others are not.

If you don't like or use something in your system, fine, but there is no need for posts that serve no purpose than to degrade others.

Todd

Thank You for clarifying the significance of staying on topic. Though if some members feel they have the need to question or challenge my thoughts I see no problem with that as long as they are debating in a mature fashion.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: BPT on 4 Apr 2014, 03:14 pm
Just updated to latest Fidelizer 5. Quite a bit of sonic improvement and highly recommended over previous versions.
Chris H.
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: tortugaranger on 29 Jun 2014, 02:08 pm
I've been a big fan of JRiver for several years now and actually sold off my Squeezebox gear after trying JRiver for a while. It was roughly $20 when I first bought JR and noticed it's up to $50 now but still a great bit of software.

My hardware configuration looks something like: Full Blown PC Desktop Workstation (w/ JR19) -> Wireless Router - > Dedicated Bare Bones Dell Laptop (w/ JR19) in another room - > USB -> DAC - > AMP.

All the music is on the PC Desktop which is also a heavily used engineering workstation. The Dell  streams its audio source from the PC Desktop wirelessly. I control the JR19 running on the Dell Laptop wirelessly using JRemote on an iPad. BTW, JRemote is impressive app for controlling JR - highly recommended.

My question is are any of these alternative players (either alone or in combination) capable of coordinated audio server operation over wireless similar to what JR offers?

Lastly, FWIW, I thought the testing described in Computer Audiophile (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/ (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/blogs/mitchco/jriver-vs-jplay-test-results-156/)) is about as definitive as anything ever gets in audio. Hard to get more perfect than bit-perfect at least in the digital domain.

Cheers,  :thumb:
Morten
Title: Re: Windows 8, Jplay, Fidelizer, Reclock and other thoughts
Post by: adydula on 30 Jun 2014, 12:12 pm
I have JRiver version 18 and have been using it for a few years. I went threw several players but always went back to Jriver. Its really nice in a HT and audio setup. I play flacks to a external dac on a real powerhouse SLI system as well. From the dac to an amp etc.... and headphones.

Also have it on a HTPC with a 60" plasma that I can see across the rome or use jRemote with is really a nice interface as well.

I have downloaded jplay several times and have done blind ab testing etc and I have never heard any real world differences with it.

I agree about the bitperfect statement you made...

All the best
Alex