[terry parr]

with the new choices now from audez'e and hifiman and others, what place does the sennheiser hd-650 now hold?  would everyone now consider the 650 a "once-great" phone that has clearly been put in the shade by some of the newer offerings,  or is it still a great phone in it's own right?

considering how highly-praised the 650 has been, does it still "hold its own", and is it now just a matter of personal taste for what particular type
of sound characteristics that different listeners appreciate, or has this phone clearly been "bested" now?

i know i'm comparing apples to oranges, here.  comparing the newer planar magnetic phones to the 650, which has dynamic drivers, but i'm just
interested in what people think who are familiar with the 650 and the newer orthodynamic phones. 

[ajzepp]

I'll preface this by saying I've never heard these phones....however, a guy I correspond with on another forum recently picked up a Schitt amp and Bifrost DAC, and he says that his 650s just exploded with amazing sound. Well, a mutual friend of ours happened to travel to his place to try out some gear and he fired up his 650s on the schitt gear while he was there. To make a long story short, on his drive home the next morning he stopped off at the local headphone shop and picked up the same Schitt gear, and he ended up feeling the same way. I don't know what sort of crazy synergy is going on between the Schitt and the Senns, but apparently this is a pretty magical combo. He's new to the circle, so maybe he'll chime in with some further thoughts...but I trust both of their opinions, and I think they both actually own the Hifiman HE-500s, as well. Not sure if that helps, but I've read enough similar feedback that if I were to buy a pair of Senns, it would be the 650s.

[eclein]

Pretty much this exact phrase "is it a matter of personal taste, or are the newer phones clearly superior?", came to mind a year or so ago when I bought some Sennheiser 203's, 202's ??? Not sure of the model but it was when they were all black and not silver like they are nowadays.
 I think they were like $24 at the time and I was amazed at how good they sounded, not fabulous to die for sound but good, solid bass and well defined mids and highs. Thats when I think it hit me how much the headphone part of the hobby had changed and how even I could afford to try a bunch out and "why not"...so I started my journey to see how things had changed and wow have they. 

[dB Cooper]

There are many more steps sideways than leaps forward in audio. Musical is musical. I heard good, so-so- and bad equipment 40 years ago... and now. Good stands the test of time, which the 650s clearly have done. Bad tends to fade away and be replaced by a new generation of bad. Of course, no theory is perfect; I loathe the Koss Pro-4AA, and they have been around even longer than the 650s.

[charmerci]

Of course, no theory is perfect; I loathe the Koss Pro-4AA, and they have been around even longer than the 650s.

Oh man, don't ruin my memories!      They were my first headphones!

[Chromisdesigns]

I would say definitely a matter of personal taste.  I auditioned the 650's not long after they came out, but I prefer the sound of my old HD600's. 

I never compared them to the HD800s, though -- mostly out of fear that I'd wind up paying way more than I really want for another set of headphones

[decal]

Everything about this hobby is a matter of personal taste,IMHO.

[Diamond Dog]

I would say definitely a matter of personal taste.  I auditioned the 650's not long after they came out, but I prefer the sound of my old HD600's.

 Agreed. I auditioned the HD600 against the HD650 and walked out of the store with the HD600. I preferred the sound of the "lesser" phones as well. Used them happily for years and finally replaced them about a week ago.

D.D.

[steve in jersey]

I think you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when you go by anyone else's estimation of what is "superior". It's just a way too subjective parameter for the simple fact no one's hearing is exactly the same.

Even within the same manufacturer's established models changes made through the years may change the characteristics where some end user's will hate the model they once loved (or love it even more).

Some listener's swear by inexpensive headphones (such as Grado's) others like expensive electrostatics(Stax). Technically the electrostatics are a much more complicated design but for someone who prefers the raw , aggressive output of the inexpensive Grado's they would consider these superior.

As they say "different horses, for different courses". If it works for you it's "superior" . It has very little to do with older or newer. (However as you get older ,how you hear things changes) (that sucks does'nt it)

[ajzepp]

I think you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when you go by anyone else's estimation of what is "superior". It's just a way too subjective parameter for the simple fact no one's hearing is exactly the same.

I completely disagree with this...my approach to audio as a hobby as been to GREATLY rely on as many opinions as I can find. It's simply not possible to audition everything out there of interest, so in lieu of that, extensive research is the ticket. I use as many opinions, reviews, and spec sheets as I can find to generate a short list of contenders that will likely be what I'm looking for. At that point I'll have a short list from which I'll find a way to hopefully audition the options I've identified and then make my decision. This is how I've been doing things for the last ten or twelve years that I've been heavily into audio, and it's very, very rarely failed me. If we sort of changed what you said to, "I think you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when you go by ONLY ONE person's estimation of what is 'superior'", then I'd probably agree. But when you take the time to consider the entire landscape of opinions, and especially when you have a good understanding of what qualities do and do not appeal to you, it's like having a gold mine at your fingertips.

[Fido2]

Sage advice ajzepp. This formula has worked for me as well.

[hibuckhobby]

While personal taste cannot be overlooked, there is, IMO, value in
looking at reviews and investigating items that have a perponderance
of positive reviews.  After doing that, I still went back to what I liked,
and the hd650 was one that I kept. YMMV
Hibuck....

[steve in jersey]

I completely disagree with this...my approach to audio as a hobby as been to GREATLY rely on as many opinions as I can find. It's simply not possible to audition everything out there of interest, so in lieu of that, extensive research is the ticket. I use as many opinions, reviews, and spec sheets as I can find to generate a short list of contenders that will likely be what I'm looking for. At that point I'll have a short list from which I'll find a way to hopefully audition the options I've identified and then make my decision. This is how I've been doing things for the last ten or twelve years that I've been heavily into audio, and it's very, very rarely failed me. If we sort of changed what you said to, "I think you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when you go by ONLY ONE person's estimation of what is 'superior'", then I'd probably agree. But when you take the time to consider the entire landscape of opinions, and especially when you have a good understanding of what qualities do and do not appeal to you, it's like having a gold mine at your fingertips.

Sorry, I was'nt careful in my choice of words. I did'nt mean to imply everyone when I said anyone , but isn't it just possible when someone says anyONE they where just referring to A person( by default).

Why would someone giving advice on an equipment forum, suggest that readers NOT use the vast resource of others to help them make choices on what to audition ? Sometimes you should ask what someone meant before you jump to conclusions.

I don't mind being guilty of not previewing a posting, but I would mind being guilty of  handing out bad advice as it really does'nt require "rocket science" to help people out (just honest insight from years of personal experience)

Hey ,I messed up. Sorry!

[ajzepp]

Sorry, I was'nt careful in my choice of words. I did'nt mean to imply everyone when I said anyone , but isn't it just possible when someone says anyONE they where just referring to A person( by default).

Why would someone giving advice on an equipment forum, suggest that readers NOT use the vast resource of others to help them make choices on what to audition ? Sometimes you should ask what someone meant before you jump to conclusions.

I don't mind being guilty of not previewing a posting, but I would mind being guilty of  handing out bad advice as it really does'nt require "rocket science" to help people out (just honest insight from years of personal experience)

Hey ,I messed up. Sorry!

Well, when you sort of qualified your comment by stating that everyone's hearing is different, it seemed that you might be a hobbyist who put little or no weight in the subjective opinions of others. I just call em as I seem, man....but nobody is keeping score here. If that's not what you meant, then no worries. Just people shooting the breeze and talking audio on a message board...

[hibuckhobby]

+1 

[adydula]

The hard thing is when your depending on other opinions is to be able to cut thru all the BS....there is so much subjectivity and varying opinions and brand loyalty etc its really hard to get to the end of it all.

Its better if you can listen before buying....but like the OP said....its a hard thing to do especially with cans...

I have 4 sets of them now, all different, all good in many ways.....as well as numerous amps and dacs....

So read and read and read and read.....

All the best
Alex

[charmerci]

I think you set yourself up for a lot of disappointment when you go by anyone else's estimation of what is "superior". It's just a way too subjective parameter for the simple fact no one's hearing is exactly the same.

Unless, of course, you've found someone who's listening ability is right on. I have. (I don't mention his name because he runs a stereo company.)

[steve in jersey]

Unless, of course, you've found someone who's listening ability is right on. I have. (I don't mention his name because he runs a stereo company.)

You, sir , are absolutely correct ! You would hope that the "In the Industry" people that you deal with started out as "Audiophiles" (a good % of them did) & are not just businessmen.

(I could have saved myself a good bit of this common sense banter had I simply answered the OPs "inexact" querie with a "simple" inexact answer as I subscribe to just about everything that is being mentioned. I should realize that posters will quote my "Fo Pah" as they join threads at different points & post replies before reading ahead) (Sorry everyone I'm slightly O/C & I beat myself up over slight mental lapses)

[Russell Dawkins]

... the simple fact no one's hearing is exactly the same ...

This shouldn't make any difference, as we judge realism of headphone and speaker reproduction with the same ears we use to listen to the real thing. What does differ significantly from one person to the next is taste and expectations.

I found the Sennheiser 650s to be surprisingly dark - as if listening through a thick blanket, compared to the Etymotic Research ER 4Ss with which I was familiar (and which match reality almost perfectly when I take them off during a recording session and compare to the live sound). I say "surprisingly" because I expected something much more realistic from all the praise I saw heaped on them from all sides. My explanation to myself was that this was some variant on the urban myth phenomenon, where something is being iterated and reiterated so often that it becomes accepted as a truth. In fact I am still puzzled by this and intend to try to secure another pair to see if the headphone amp might have been at fault - although I don't think standard design dynamic headphones intended for the general market should be critically dependent on very high grade headphone amps for adequate performance.

[dB Cooper]

I don't know that the 650's are considered by Sennheiser to be for the "general market". The 300 ohm impedance is why I say this. The impedance peaks at around 600 ohms. This is a challenging load. When I had the 580s back in the day (I regret selling them), I had a hi-end Panasonic VCR that drove them well, but because you gotta swing a fair amount of volts into that load, you can pretty much forget portables and less-robust home gear. They sounded great out of the headphone output of my Van Alstine preamp. I have seen other reviews asserting that they "open up" when driven better. I have Etys also (hf3 in my case) and yes, they are no doubt "brighter" than the 580/600/650.

I think, generally speaking, you could liken the sound of the 580/600/650 line to what used to be called "East Coast sound" when referring to speakers. Like anything else in audio, as Russell notes, it's a question of taste, and the "six blind men and the elephant syndrome" is ever present.