[jtwrace]

This begs the obvious question, will an optimized server like HALs MS-2 sound similar to an Aries, or are we still listening to the software player in the server, say jRiver 20, which is inferior sonically to the player software in the Aries?
Scotty

What the Regen is doing is far beyond software IMO.

[*Scotty*]

John, my question was imprecise, does the presence of the Regen make the upstream server less important? Likewise is the quality of the USB cable less important?
I get that we have a solution to an heretofore unrecognized interface problem, but will this get out from under the necessity for a server or a product like the Aries upstream from our DAC?
Scotty

[jtwrace]

John, my question was imprecise, does the presence of the Regen make the upstream server less important? Likewise is the quality of the USB cable less important?

Not John but I'll try.  I don't think the server is any less important.  As for the cable, they have said that it could make less of a difference as even the EMI is cut.

[*Scotty*]

It sounds like one might have a bigger bang for the buck if one already has decent cable, to buy the Regen rather than pour money into another USB cable at a much higher price. The Regen looks to be $175 compared to USB cables which can cost as much as 10 times more than the Regen.
Scotty

[jtwrace]

It sounds like one might have a bigger bang for the buck if one already has decent cable, to buy the Regen rather than pour money into another USB cable at a much higher price. The Regen looks to be $175 compared to USB cables which can cost as much as 10 times more than the Regen.
Scotty

It does WAY more than any cable can do.  Did you see the post above that I posted from John Swenson?

[Tyson]

I'm moving away from a fully active system based around the miniDSP 2x10 HD, and toward a pair of passive speakers in a more traditional setup (Serenity Acoustics Super 7's).  I just got a iFi Micro IDSD and iUSB Power to be my DAC since the miniDSP is about to be kicked to the curb. 

I just ordered the Regen for the next round, but I'm assuming I can use it between the iUSB Power and the Micro iDSD, is that correct?

[jtwrace]

I'm moving away from a fully active system based around the miniDSP 2x10 HD, and toward a pair of passive speakers in a more traditional setup (Serenity Acoustics Super 7's).  I just got a iFi Micro IDSD and iUSB Power to be my DAC since the miniDSP is about to be kicked to the curb. 

The Micro iDSD is really really awesome.  I use it as my travel (airplane) setup.  I haven't tried it yet with the REGEN but I'd expect it to do VERY well with it. 

I just ordered the Regen for the next round, but I'm assuming I can use it between the iUSB Power and the Micro iDSD, is that correct?

No, you will definitely not want to use the iUSB Power with the REGEN.  The REGEN has a much better power supply along with a regulator. 

[jtwrace]

Here is the long post by Alex from UpTone.


For best signal integrity and impedance match, the REGEN should be allowed to generate its data signal as close to the DAC as possible (hence the very small case and solid adapter it comes with).


Any devices before the REGEN that are there just to make a better 5VBUS will no longer have an effect on the 5V received by the DAC because any pin 1 power coming into the REGEN is disconnected and replaced with power regulated by one of the unit's two best-in-class TPS7A4700 ultra-low noise regulators.

As for the continued benefit of any "filtering" or "signal conditioning" performed on the data lines by the range of other devices, the answer is that I really have no idea. We have never tested the REGEN in combination with other units. That's what all you guys are going to do and report on.

We have been very up front about the fact that even though the REGEN does, by virtue of its hub chip (that's all it is really, no secret "snake oil") create a new signal to drive the DAC's input, upstream changes (USB cables, computer PS, OS, etc.) do still make a difference. USB cable differences may not be as dramatic as before, but they are still there.

If we built a device that provided true galvanic isolation of theUSB line--and still had it right at the DAC input--then maybe cables would matter even less. But the design for such a device would require a small FPGA, PHYs on both sides of it, and two power supplies (though maybe we would let the input side run on VBUS). A much more expensive proposition.

So the one item that I am interested in trying with the REGEN is the Corning USB cable, since:
a) that does galvanically isolate;
b) the REGEN will disconnect/ignore the Corning's low amperage, copper wire VBUS;
c) the lesser quality clocking/signal of the Corning's own hub/transceiver chip (there is one in there, certainly at the receiving end--it is just tiny and specialized as an optical receiver>USB PHY) is replaced by the REGEN's own signal generation.

Lastly, I'd like to emphasize that we believe the REGEN is helping the DAC as much or more than it is helping the computer. While I suppose when we are talking in general about better signal integrity (see John's writings for why this matters--the whole poor incoming-SI modulating PS and clocking inside the DACthing), it is hard to separate the factors, everything upstream that is.But what we have found is that the REGEN helps most on DACs whose USB input is very sensitive about what comes before. I guess that would be kind of obvious. To put it plainly, we have had some decent or good DACs with crappy USB inputs be transformed by the REGEN.Yet even on DACs (or USB>S/PDIF converters) with really goodUSB implementations, we hear a striking difference. Not sure what my point here is. Things are, as always, a system--and should be looked at that way.Hope the above makes some sense and clears things up a little.

[Tyson]

The Micro iDSD is really really awesome.  I use it as my travel (airplane) setup.  I haven't tried it yet with the REGEN but I'd expect it to do VERY well with it. 
No, you will definitely not want to use the iUSB Power with the REGEN.  The REGEN has a much better power supply along with a regulator. 

Yeah, the micro setup at the iFi booth last year at RMAF was one of the few times when my jaw literally dropped when spinning up some tunes.  It was just shockingly good, price be damned.  I've not been able to do a direct comparison yet, but I'm hoping the Regen/iDSD combo gets me somewhat close to the Vega, which is clearly the best DAC I've heard in the under $5k price range.  Probably not a realistic hope, but hey, I'm an optimist at heart! 

[jtwrace]

Yeah, the micro setup at the iFi booth last year at RMAF was one of the few times when my jaw literally dropped when spinning up some tunes.  It was just shockingly good, price be damned.  I've not been able to do a direct comparison yet, but I'm hoping the Regen/iDSD combo gets me somewhat close to the Vega, which is clearly the best DAC I've heard in the under $5k price range.  Probably not a realistic hope, but hey, I'm an optimist at heart! 

Well, I happen to own both (Vega & Micro iDSD) and I'll say the Micro is scary good.  Do I need to send the Micro to you? 

[Tyson]

I just got one!  Nachotime was selling his here in the AC for sale section and I snapped it up.  But I AM curious to hear how close the micro is to the Vega both before and after the Regen being plugged in to the Micro....

[jtwrace]

I just got one!  Nachotime was selling his here in the AC for sale section and I snapped it up.  But I AM curious to hear how close the micro is to the Vega both before and after the Regen being plugged in to the Micro....

Perhaps I just need to send you my Vega and let your ears hear it. 

[*Scotty*]

So if the Vega needs to handshake with a 5volt bus supply before it thinks its connected to a computer then the Regen supplies the 5volts and the Vega is none the wiser.
 As far as sending him the Vega goes, now you are just being an enabler of his addiction.
Scotty

[jtwrace]

So if the Vega needs to handshake with a 5volt bus supply before it thinks its connected to a computer then the Regen supplies the 5volts and the Vega is none the wiser.
 As far as sending him the Vega goes, now you are just being an enabler of his addiction.
Scotty

The Vega doesn't use any 5Vdc on the BUS. 

[jtwrace]

Some other comments are starting to trickle in.  You can see them here. 

[brj]

Like some other DACs, the Auralic Vega buffers the USB input, reclocks everything with a very accurate clock, and doesn't use the USB power leg.  So I'm puzzled as to why the Regen would make a difference in that case.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that you're hearing a difference - merely trying to identify a reason for those differences.

What am I missing?  (Likely much, given the late hour and lack of caffeine...)

Thanks!

[sfox7076]

I have noticed little difference (if any) with my LampizatOr and Dana USB cable. 

[jtwrace]

I have noticed little difference (if any) with my LampizatOr and Dana USB cable.

Strange.  Well, the good news is that you can sell it for what you paid at this point. 

[jtwrace]

Just because everyone likes pics. Yes, it sounds really good too even though it's not as close the Micro as it could be with another adapter.

 

[paul79]

There really is no way a product like this can be an improvement in every scenario. It no doubt will improve some DAC's USB input, but with others, this will be an extra layer of isolation so to speak, that is just not needed. However, since it is reclocking so to speak, I don't think it would make anything worse.