AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Industry Introductions => Topic started by: KHotte on 23 Jan 2017, 07:35 pm
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Hello, my name is Ken, and I'll probably cause some grief just by being here - and (some) people knowing that our company sells 'new technology' in the form of Liquid Metal audio cables. Some will tilt at such windmills.
Wait for it.....3..2..1...
:o :? :wink:
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hope you were not holding your breath....
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Not breathing for an entire month is liable to create serious health issues. I think organ failure must be high on the list of such issues.
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Welcome!
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Hello, my name is Ken, and I'll probably cause some grief just by being here - and (some) people knowing that our company sells 'new technology' in the form of Liquid Metal audio cables. Some will tilt at such windmills.
Wait for it.....3..2..1...
:o :? :wink:
My friend told me about those cables....and you'll be providing more info soon??
Nick
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How do you terminate something like that?
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Yes indeed, the metallurgist in me is dying to know! Your webpage is somewhat sparse with technical details, so those of us with more scientific backgrounds would like to know how your feats are accomplished.
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Hello, my name is Ken, and I'll probably cause some grief just by being here - and (some) people knowing that our company sells 'new technology' in the form of Liquid Metal audio cables. Some will tilt at such windmills.
Wait for it.....3..2..1...
:o :? :wink:
You need to declare yourself as an industry participant......
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I found reviews - e.g. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/teoaudio2/liquid.html - but not really much technical detail
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Isn't there another company offering liquid metal cables?
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I found this about pricing in the link to the above review I posted - "Pricing: Divorce inducing for the average ‘phile, probably quite reasonable for the well-heeled."
And here is more specifics - http://www.dagogo.com/teo-audio-liquid-cables-review
"TEO Liquid Standard Speaker Cable MkII:
1.5m pair $11,725
2.0m pair $16,500
2.5m pair $21,000"
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Contacted my friend and his cables are slightly different. His use a metal wire conductor with liquid metal within a clear tube. I don't know the mechanism that's used to seal them. They are similarly pricey and I believe are from Germany.
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Contacted my friend and his cables are slightly different. His use a metal wire conductor with liquid metal within a clear tube. I don't know the mechanism that's used to seal them. They are similarly pricey and I believe are from Germany.
This indicates Canada - http://www.teoaudio.com/contact/
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I think these are how they are made :green: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq5ydeWWr4A
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Here is some info on the liquid metal
http://www.espimetals.com/index.php/msds/133-gallium-indium-tin-eutectic
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Phil, thanks for that info. I will see for myself as there's a club gtg at his house this Saturday.
Nick
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This is interesting.
A single post gets nothing. A single response generates multiple responses.
If I could criticize AC, I'd say too many initial posts go unanaswered. BWTHDIK?
Welcome. Post your thoughts.......don't post once and disappear.
Michael
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Anyone who hasn't heard these cables, better not unless your committed to spending $$. They are NOT a gimmick! There is NOTHING that sounds as real, no B.S. I auditioned all the best balanced interconnects from the big names (Audioquest, Nordost, PAD, etc) at 3X and 4X the price and it wasn't even close. Facts are facts - if you trust your ears you'll never go back to solid copper or silver or gold . . . !! I wish i could afford the speaker cables, but the slurry (similar materials to that used in non-mercury thermometers) is expensive and more tubes are required for higher level signals and greater lengths - that's the only caveat!
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:o Let me go win the lottery and I will get right back with you.
It is bazarr these exotic cables are pushed on audiophiles when most recording studios uses the cheapest Monster cables.
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"TEO Liquid Standard Speaker Cable MkII:
1.5m pair $11,725
2.0m pair $16,500
2.5m pair $21,000"
If this is true, then:
1) You might have posted that at the outset to weed out the 99% of us who won't be interested based on price.
2) Good luck, but frankly unless there's serious trickle down technology at a fraction of the cost, then what's the point? You could purchase a glorious stereo SYSTEM for less than a 1.5 meter pair of cables. This is what hurts the image of this hobby and helps make us all a bit crazy.
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"TEO Liquid Standard Speaker Cable MkII:
1.5m pair $11,725
2.0m pair $16,500
2.5m pair $21,000"
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
They have this ad on Audiogon now (and another for a 1.5m cable) - https://www.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-teo-audio-gc-1m-different-physics-math-different-result-2017-01-28-cables-k7l-4v1
At $500, perhaps the OP might want to do a tour on Audio Circle. If what they say is true, then a tour would surely net them some business. The demo is worth everything. So if they aren't willing to do it, it's their business, but to me this is just unsubstantiated hype at the moment.
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They have this ad on Audiogon now (and another for a 1.5m cable) - https://www.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-teo-audio-gc-1m-different-physics-math-different-result-2017-01-28-cables-k7l-4v1
At $500, perhaps the OP might want to do a tour on Audio Circle. If what they say is true, then a tour would surely net them some business. The demo is worth everything. So if they aren't willing to do it, it's their business, but to me this is just unsubstantiated hype at the moment.
Really, I am not sure this company deserves so much attention here. One post and disappear does not give me confidence. Teo Audio has been a member of Audiogon since June of last year with only 9 transactions. There is a huge discrepancy between the Audiogon price and the review prices.
Sad because I am looking for new interconnects and $500 is much less than I normally spend. I would gladly join a tour. Teo Audio needs to step up.
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I didn't realize that my present cables were incorrectly scaling volume. :slap: However, they do dynamically adjust impedance in conjunction with the signal, impedance being frequency dependent.
Steve
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Teo Audio needs to step up.
I agree - that's why I posted it
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btw, I have interconnects that have that much in material cost. Connectors for the pair on sale were $240. So I would be curious to hear them.
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Facts are facts - if you trust your ears you'll never go back to solid copper or silver or gold . . . !!
I guess you can't argue with "facts"!
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I guess you can't argue with "facts"!
Maybe that was an "alternative fact". :lol:
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My friend told me about those cables....and you'll be providing more info soon??
Nick
Hello,
We do supply some information on these cables, for we've been selling them since approximately 2008. Right now, to help people understand that this method of conduction is likely superior to wire, we've had to develop a lower priced model, which we are calling the GC, which is RCA terminated. This has been done to allow more people to hear it, and thus a consensus and knowledge base can develop.
Information on them is tricky to come by as the mathematics and the physics are incomplete, but much is indicated by the preliminary data and science that is out there in the world.
As for the rest of it, Apologies for the delay in response, I ended up getting busy for quite some time, in other areas.
I was (and still am) healing up from being hit by an accelerating car in a parking lot (some kid 'punched it' in a Merc AMG). Which damaged my hand to the point that it was useless for quite some time, and there is no assurance I will regain full use of it. I had to twist and spin/pivot off the hood of his car and was thrown/spun a bit, and it cost me my hand, instead of my life ...only because I was quick enough in that second I had to figure it out and make the right move. Again, apologies for the lack of response to the thread.
If business had been generated, it would have been difficult to fulfill the orders, as I'm the master builder of such items, at this time.
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Hello,
We do supply some information on these cables, for we've been selling them since approximately 2008. Right now, to help people understand that this method of conduction is likely superior to wire, we've had to develop a lower priced model, which we are calling the GC, which is RCA terminated. This has been done to allow more people to hear it, and thus a consensus and knowledge base can develop.
Information on them is tricky to come by as the mathematics and the physics are incomplete, but much is indicated by the preliminary data and science that is out there in the world.
As for the rest of it, Apologies for the delay in response, I ended up getting busy for quite some time, in other areas.
I was (and still am) healing up from being hit by an accelerating car in a parking lot (some kid 'punched it' in a Merc AMG). Which damaged my hand to the point that it was useless for quite some time, and there is no assurance I will regain full use of it. I had to twist and spin/pivot off the hood of his car and was thrown/spun a bit, and it cost me my hand, instead of my life ...only because I was quick enough in that second I had to figure it out and make the right move. Again, apologies for the lack of response to the thread.
If business had been generated, it would have been difficult to fulfill the orders, as I'm the master builder of such items, at this time.
Thanks for the update and my best wishes that you eventually have a complete recovery.
Nick
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I found reviews - e.g. http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/teoaudio2/liquid.html - but not really much technical detail
Hello Phil,
You won't get much technical detail, as this area is difficult at best. The science of it is incomplete.
That does not mean it is not a real thing, as items go, but that the sciences involved are so complex, that they are not complete, across multiples of the fundamentals, when it comes to the analysis of what is going on with the cables.
From that point on, it just spins out of control in range of replies and thoughts from people. The range goes from listening... and finding it to be good, better, or even overtly superior....all the way over.....to fanatically screeched near death threats for daring to question 'scientific law'.
I will add that srajan and I had a conversation about that review, before it was written up. At that time the release of the technology had just taken place.
The reason for the introduction of the technology, was partially to deal with overt orthodoxy that can be exposed as a form of logical entrapment, ie, dogma.
To preface such a discussion, one has to understand that all our electrical knowledge, up until very recently, was all obtained by measuring electrical and magnetic fields with solids. And solids are not 'molecular fluids' like water is, or like a room temperature liquid metal.
When you use solids or frozen lattice structures to create and measure things that are truly quantum/atomic/molecular level discrete and fluid, you will always get the same results. Results couched in a particular way.
With a complex and fluid field like a modulated electron flow, it is very arguable that a fluid medium is a far superior medium than any solid or high conductivity frozen atomic lattice, be it pure element or alloy in nature.
The analysis parameters are so complex that humanity is barely past the stage of being able to model calculations two atoms in connection to one another. the math and calculations are enormously complex.
To say enough to try and get people to listen to a cable that we feel has inherently surpassed wire or solids, as a magnitude change..and leave it at that.
There is a lot going on here, and it is to our technological advantage in future endeavors, to say as little as possible about what we have learned. To explain ourselves, over time. Years, in fact.
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btw, I have interconnects that have that much in material cost. Connectors for the pair on sale were $240. So I would be curious to hear them.
We do sell a low cost direct sale only version of one cable on a few venues, audio specific venues. There is a return policy, so it's a form of a long term listening test.
They look like an audio cable, but they are an entirely different beast, modified to work as an audio cable.
Deceptively simple looking, but the very definition of cutting edge, even in scientific terms.
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Any plans for an Audio Circle tour?
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Are these like the cerious nano cables?
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Are these like the cerious nano cables?
The nano cables conduct electricity, at the atomic interactive level, slightly differently.
They are not a true fluid. They contain solids.
With true fluids, the fields are free to interact in a more natural way. Natural meaning the jump from one electron cloud surrounding a nucleus..this 'jump' will be facilitated more naturally. The electron cloud being jumped to will also be more free to respond to the orientation and spin polarization of the incoming 'electron'. (we can describe the name we have given an electron but science still does not know exactly what an electron is. We can only describe it in interaction) When interacting with a solid, even nano particles... we beget field shifts and orientation. Likened to optical diffraction and field separation.
When reacting and integrating with an atomic level fluid (no solids, just molecules, like water, or gas) the signal itself can enter the equation as a force that is creating an imposed order in the system.
When the signal impetus, or differential, goes away, the carrier can and does move back to a more gaseous or random (rest state) system. Thus, on the decrease of signal to zero, the carrier drops back to disorder. Random localized dissipation, to a degree. Part of the reason behind anomalous capacitance measurements on the liquid metal cables.
This effect can be seen with neon lighting systems. Random gas.... apply a voltage differential cross the given volume of gas..and the system aligns into an ordered state, and the energetic flow or pathway is established - and that flow in the given pathway...is tied to the emission of photons -as the conductivity is not perfect in that alignment. Remove the voltage differential, the photon emission ceases (as a secondary indicator) ..and the system collapses back into disorder.
In a solid, any conductive solid in this case, the fields have to collapse according to the polarized (electron orbital interplay in the lattice structure) pathway that the wire demands, that the solidus atomic lattice and associated electron orbital jump points are polarized and oriented.
One might suppose that this spin orientation is the origin point for for lead and lag in complex LCR. People talk about complex LCR but few know what it is or means at the atomic interactive level. :) (I'm not sure anyone really does)
A true atomic fluid, it might be possible to see, would react or interact differently than the locked lattice structure of any solid, nano, or...wire.
To put this into perspective in the question of difference in solids vs fluids, glass is a very well known and potent/effective dielectric.
Yet, when in fluid form, glass is conductive. Fluid glass is a conductor. Cool it down to it's solidus state...and it is a dielectric again. The electron orbital interactives or 'electron mobility' changes... between the two states. These statements do not contain all the data, or all considerations as can be spoken of -and no offense meant for not getting any deeper into it.
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I didn't realize that my present cables were incorrectly scaling volume. :slap: However, they do dynamically adjust impedance in conjunction with the signal, impedance being frequency dependent.
Steve
When one looks at the above info proffered... the thing about 'scaling volume' begins to creep into the conversation. The reason it comes up is that people speak directly on this when using the liquid metal cables. Previously unrealized levels of focus, and seeming to have more accurately scaled micro changes and differentials - in the presented signal.
The Teo cables seem to be able to do some bizarre impedance dances. DC to +ghz range, in almost any conceivable conductor configuration. Even the speaker cables. I've use 3 strands of a 4 strand set of speaker cables...terminated with spades.. to hobble together a 720P or 1080P component video signal transfer. Even the speaker cable can transfer coherent signal in the higher MHz ranges.
I'm not sure the fluid metal will correctly behave itself according to known formulas, when attempting to take a long tube of it, and make an inductor. All the preliminary investigation says the results will contain anomalies.
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Hopefully the audio signals going through these cables do the same things as when going through good engineering practice cables.
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I'm going to order a pair and I'll let you guys know how they fare. I have Cerious graphene extreme, Morrow MA-5's and Audio Magic Triniums to compare to. A diverse set of topologies and none in the uber expensive layer.
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Having had a pair of Teo speaker cables in my system for some time, I can attest to their spectacular performance. Originally, I had them on loan for evaluation, and quickly realized they were NOT going back!
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Any plans for an Audio Circle tour?
Plus 1 on that. Every cable out there has a story to tell. Every one is amazing according to the manufacturer. I have found that to be "alternative facts". :( The proof is in the listening but I am too tired to buy and sell cables ad nauseam. Still I remain curious but jaded.
Ken, best wishes for a full recovery for your hand.
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I'm going to order a pair and I'll let you guys know how they fare. I have Cerious graphene extreme, Morrow MA-5's and Audio Magic Triniums to compare to. A diverse set of topologies and none in the uber expensive layer.
Bless you. :beer:
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Having had a pair of Teo speaker cables in my system for some time, I can attest to their spectacular performance. Originally, I had them on loan for evaluation, and quickly realized they were NOT going back!
I originally refused to make speaker cables, knowing they'd be stupid expensive.
I decided to get into the herculean task of designing a set and making them, and this, at least a few years after we started selling the RCA's. I was finally curious enough. I knew at the higher current would 'steer' and control the fluid, to exert much influence on the conductive threading and ribboning (complex dynamic electrohydrodynamics) in the fluid and actually be better than the interconnects.
When I heard them, I knew it would be a seller... and a pita to explain. It is the hearing that counts.
I don't want expensive stuff! I'm an original audio cheapskate!
But if this seems a bit much to absorb, I will offer an alternative subject that is scientifically 'off' in engineering speak, but totally real in physics.
The subject of overunity. Overunity, ie, perpetual motion, and beyond... is crap... right?
Not so fast. As long as you don't try to talk about it on forums and actually speak to physicists, you will find out that over unity is considered a very alive and real subject.
Untold billions of US federal and corporate dollars have been spent in making it work. So yeah, overunity is a scientific point that has been found to be real enough to openly and publicly spend tens of billions on.
In this case, it is called a fusion reactor. One of them being a Tokamak reactor. Just about any country of note and major corporation is making one to play with. They like them as power remains centralized. Cough. Ahem. And it costs them nothing once it is working but doled out to you..well...like a fiat currency. But other ideas, non centralized ones... don't work. They are fantasy, of course. As for the tokamak reactors.....we are nearly there!
(http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/originalimages/uploads/1/KSTARDSC_4240_small.jpg)
Back to the subject at hand. Fluid metal has a dynamic 'electron cloud/orbital' conductive pathway alignment aspect that responds electrically and physically to the load or charge differentials.
No frozen (solidus) element or alloy wire can duplicate this feat.
Whether it is relevant to dynamic audio signals or not, is a thing for a listener to discern. The 85%-95% retention rate in the trials for this GC RCA cable seems to speak to a fairly universal fit.
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Bless you. :beer:
Here's a post I made on another forum, regarding discernment and the modern audiophile animal:
(Originally there was an interesting but mildly vociferously couched post here. Something about the Fish being good enough for Jehovah.)
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Wait....hold on...did you just say Perpetual Motion is real?
Not so fast. As long as you don't try to talk about it on forums and actually speak to physicists, you will find out that over unity is considered a very alive and real subject.
Untold billions of US federal and corporate dollars have been spent in making it work. So yeah, overunity is a scientific point that has been found to be real enough to openly and publicly spend tens of billions on.
Tokamak still requires power input and significant amount of containment to keep it operational.
In this case, it is called a fusion reactor. One of them being a Tokamak reactor. Just about any country of note and major corporation is making one to play with. They like them as power remains centralized. Cough. Ahem. And it costs them nothing once it is working but doled out to you..well...like a fiat currency. But other ideas, non centralized ones... don't work. They are fantasy, of course. As for the tokamak reactors.....we are nearly there!
We are not "nearly there" we are there. and they do not, nor will they ever produce free perpetual energy.
Yes things are getting better, and when Frances big Tokomak becomes operational in a few more years things will be interesting.
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Wait....hold on...did you just say Perpetual Motion is real?
Tokamak still requires power input and significant amount of containment to keep it operational.We are not "nearly there" we are there. and they do not, nor will they ever produce free perpetual energy.
Yes things are getting better, and when Frances big Tokomak becomes operational in a few more years things will be interesting.
I glossed over the fuel part - Makes for more exciting reading. This point on fuel sourcing or a 'from-to' understanding (it's meaning to the given in situ equation) also plagues the DIY efforts in these technological areas.
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I glossed over the fuel part -
I can't tell if you're being serious or wry. Glossing over the "fuel" part is of course the whole reason the perpetual motion myth exists in the first place.
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Isn't there another company offering liquid metal cables?
I'd like to know who might be eligible to be sent a cease and desist order....
As for the fluid metal itself, it has some interesting behaviors, ones that may be associated with it's perceived high levels of sound quality transfer.
Highest level of wide-band spectral reflectivity (ie, visible light and so on), ie best mirror surface
Highest level of creep (as in oil creeping in a gap)
Highest level of lubricity
Very high thermal capacity
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I'd like to know who might be eligible to be sent a cease and desist order....
Ken, you are not allowed to use this site to make legal threats.
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I hope these aren't full of mercury. Can you let me know what metal you use before I bring it into a house with 2 boys under 5?
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Acccording to the 6moons review, it's a slurry of gallium, indium, and tin.
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Just what exactly would the legal threat be over? I'm pretty sure you can't tell someone to stop using fundamental laws of physics to transmit electrical signals.
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Just what exactly would the legal threat be over? I'm pretty sure you can't tell someone to stop using fundamental laws of physics to transmit electrical signals.
If they have a patent for using this methodology of liquid metal then they have every right to protect their business through patent law.
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Guess the metal is pressurized to stay liquid...
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If they have a patent for using this methodology of liquid metal then they have every right to protect their business through patent law.
Did you place an order yet Pete? If so, what's the model name? Price?
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Guess the metal is pressurized to stay liquid...
I highly highly doubt that a plastic tube can withstand any sort of pressure that would be sufficient to cause a phase change in a metal alloy.
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Ken, you are not allowed to use this site to make legal threats.
I made the one comment that was loose and non-specific, and have no urge to pursue or mention it here any further.
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I can't tell if you're being serious or wry. Glossing over the "fuel" part is of course the whole reason the perpetual motion myth exists in the first place.
Since there is no such thing as a scientific law (social punishment schemes) - only theory exists...which is subject to modification and change based on new evidence. One can call it myth all they want, but logic dictates that the door is always open. Otherwise science cannot change and would be forcing all future development like a blinkered gauntlet and unchanging arrow... - which would seemingly place science in the realm of dogma and circular logic. :) (just polite conversation, here...)
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Did you place an order yet Pete? If so, what's the model name? Price?
When I get them and run them in Tom I'll post my comparisons and thoughts in the cable circle under path of least resistance or somewhere else as appropriate. I am a technology junkie so am eyes wide open on this one.
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When I get them and run them in Tom I'll post my comparisons and thoughts in the cable circle under path of least resistance or somewhere else as appropriate. I am a technology junkie so am eyes wide open on this one.
"(except rap and country)"
They are starting to put the two together, these days. This means you will only need one grenade. Efficiency and economy.
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Since there is no such thing as a scientific law (social punishment schemes) - only theory exists...
What???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law
A scientific law is a statement based on repeated experimental observations that describes some aspects of the universe. A scientific law always applies under the same conditions, and implies that there is a causal relationship involving its elements. Factual and well-confirmed statements like "Mercury is liquid at standard temperature and pressure" are considered too specific to qualify as scientific laws. A central problem in the philosophy of science, going back to David Hume, is that of distinguishing causal relationships (such as those implied by laws) from principles that arise due to constant conjunction.[1]
Laws differ from scientific theories in that they do not posit a mechanism or explanation of phenomena: they are merely distillations of the results of repeated observation. As such, a law is limited in applicability to circumstances resembling those already observed, and may be found false when extrapolated.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scientific-law
scientific law
noun
a phenomenon of nature that has been proven to invariably occur whenever certain conditions exist or are met; also, a formal statement about such a phenomenon; also called natural law
http://blog.ed.ted.com/2016/06/07/whats-the-difference-between-a-scientific-law-and-theory-in-ted-ed-gifs/
Scientific laws and theories have different jobs to do. A scientific law predicts the results of certain initial conditions. It might predict your unborn child’s possible hair colors, or how far a baseball travels when launched at a certain angle.
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Pete
Give me a shout when you get them I would LOVE to give them a listen
I'm going to order a pair and I'll let you guys know how they fare. I have Cerious graphene extreme, Morrow MA-5's and Audio Magic Triniums to compare to. A diverse set of topologies and none in the uber expensive layer.
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What???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/scientific-law
http://blog.ed.ted.com/2016/06/07/whats-the-difference-between-a-scientific-law-and-theory-in-ted-ed-gifs/
If Teo ends up with it's own circle, we can have that discussion, which is sometimes a bit heated until understanding arises as to what one truly means and is trying to say. I won't even hint, as that brings the whole thing on. So, I'm willing to speak on what I mean, but this is not the time and place and frankly, I should have not brought it up.
However, the liquid metal's behaviour, under loading, in this case electrical differential...straddles the line between Newtonian and quantum behaviour. Dynamically, continuously, in real time.
And we cannot yet reconcile Quantum and relativistic/Newtonian considerations. Yet the cable straddles the line, a shifty leg in each camp. It is a messy conversation, at best.
This means cast about laws... and cast about theories.... meet head on.... in a full on cage fight. ("the first rule about liquid metal cable fight club is....")
Earlier on I spoke about the review from six moons and Srajan. I spoke with him on the 'why' of the cable... and the why is to challenge orthodoxy. To give orthodoxy and electrical function and transmission line considerations, electrical considerations period.. the engineering aspects, laws and numbers...to give them grief. Big time. To plant a big living fluffy unicorn right in the center of their space. To make such mentality...think. Think new, think of the more complex why behind the scenario. To refine. and alter, change where needed to make the new work as well. Which, in the end, can only be better for audio.
And that's a big and possibly ugly conversation. So it cannot go on here (in this thread) and we certainly could not deal with it just as it was coming into being, back when he did the review. Srajan was perfectly willing to go for it, but we asked him not to.
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Interesting, how do you handle the highly corrosive nature and limited shelf life of gallium alloys.
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Interesting, how do you handle the highly corrosive nature and limited shelf life of gallium alloys.
The gallium is corrosive on it's own, to aluminum. Which is why it has a hazmat designation. Strictly due to the aluminum frame/body aspect of aircraft. Transportation aircraft. Geratherm managed to get a status change for this form of gallium based alloy as a tri-eutectic is considered to be non reactive (molecularly bonded and more neutral), in comparison to the pure gallium. Gallium is hazmat, The tri-eutectic is not. For example, the fluid mix is used to activate and control some medical instruments inside of the human body, for operating and so on. It is also considered the safe replacement for mercury thermometers (geratherm corporation).
Underneath most North American kitchen sinks or in their laundry rooms, is a far more hazardous area than a few of these cables....by a factor that is high enough to not bother calculating. Basically the undersink chemical stew can easily kill many times over, the cables in one's possession cannot.
Clean up is Windex and a paper towel.
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Could you please speak to your product line and associated pricing?
In a Darko review of Teo Audio Liquid metal cables I see Splash, Silver Splash, and Splash Reference Interconnects; at the Cable Company I see Standard MK II, PDL MK II, Super PDL, etc. The least expensive pair is $1,600, yet the Audiogon ad below list a pair for $500
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/interconnects-teo-audio-gc-1m-different-physics-math-different-result-2017-02-20-cables-k7l-4v1
I get the impression that these cables are of very high quality, but if the technology is confusing, I find the product line and pricing even more so. I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
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Are they shielded? Are they exposed to EMI/RFI? I have some interest in these as I have had some EMI/RFi issues in the past.
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Could you please speak to your product line and associated pricing?
I would appreciate any clarity you can provide.
+1
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Are they shielded? Are they exposed to EMI/RFI? I have some interest in these as I have had some EMI/RFi issues in the past.
They have no shielding of any kind. Except that of the digital cables. They have a custom designed unique system to deal with shield/ground issues. Something we had to create, something that did not exist before.
Unique challenges require unique solutions. Not always, but at least in this case. Besides, it makes for a cool sounding catchphrase. If one has a problem that is old in type but couched in a new scenario, then reaching for the comfortable hammer for known nails, may not be the smartest thing to do. so, slow it down, and think.. Thus a new solution for a new situation that merely looks like an old scenario.
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For example, to show that it is not an old scenario, that we can do away with the standard effects, the effects we know, in one named phenomena. A phenomena that even has a 'law' associated with it.
Lenz law. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenz's_law) We take the copper tube, and drop the magnet down it ...and it drops slowly, not quickly.
This does not work when dealing with a electromagnetically sensitive molecular fluid, like a liquid metal.
The individual molecules are not locked together, and can re-orient themselves and also flow/move. You could even buy an older video card that had a liquid cooling system of a similar nature that included a pump to transfer fluid and heat through a closed loop.
The magnet drops through as if the tube of liquid metal was 'almost' not there. (residual mass-motion concerns make it so that the magnet does 'not quite' drop at free fall speeds)
Suddenly the thing involves a whole swath of math that touches on areas that never see the light of day in day to day electrical concerns, even at the university engineering level for the most part.
One ends up with observably different behaviour, tied to a very complex mathematical set that crosses the cutting edge in multiple fields, all at the same time.
We go from simple seeming signal transfer, into areas of science and physics that are only beginning to be flushed out and on into near unnamed unknowns.
All packed into what looks like...an audio cable. Imagine that. Hmm.
So, we look at this, new behaviour in a new medium - with an old signal pattern, and say, "well, shielding may have to be approached differently."
The mirror of the new problem, says that the common knowledge of what shielding is and how it is used, specifically with respect to audio, may have areas of concern that most do not know of, or address. looking at the new phenomena with new issues and new solves, may illustrate that other 'knowns' are not really as they might appear to be. New knowledge, new solutions, and a review of the old from the new science goggles.
Thus, very simply, no laws in science as it exists at the edge of it's method and ways.. only theory... as they ('laws') can be misapplied hammers to improperly cognated nails. Every university professor and department head in the field of physics that I've ever met - expects this from themselves and their students.
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One picture (listen) is worth 10,000 words.
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One picture (listen) is worth 10,000 words.
I felt I owed JRace an answer. After rumination, I thought I found and elegant way to say it, without raising ire.
The idea of scientific laws can be misapplied. Outside of day to day engineering and common Newtonian worlds, laws revert back to being what they are. Theories. As all exploratory scientists and theorists are taught.
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I felt I owed JRace an answer. After rumination, I thought I found and elegant way to say it, without raising ire.
The idea of scientific laws can be misapplied. Outside of day to day engineering and common Newtonian worlds, laws revert back to being what they are. Theories. As all exploratory scientists and theorists are taught.
Ken,
You really missed my point. You can post until this thread is 100 pages long and I still won't understand what you are trying to tell me. And frankly, I don't care about the technology. I have read too many white papers that "sounded" better than the cables they were touting. The proof is in the listening. Put something on tour.
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Ken,
You really missed my point. You can post until this thread is 100 pages long and I still won't understand what you are trying to tell me. And frankly, I don't care about the technology. I have read too many white papers that "sounded" better than the cables they were touting. The proof is in the listening. Put something on tour.
+1 as I have asked a couple of times. The OP doesn't seem to want to, which is his business, but I personally really don't understand unless there is some concern as to whether things people already have are better.
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Pete
Give me a shout when you get them I would LOVE to give them a listen
If this Pete you speak of, is the one that I think you do, I expect his cable to go out the door today.
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Interested to hear his thoughts.
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I really hate to do this to you guys. I've had these for 30 minutes and I have to run to the airport for a flight. I did get some quickie sampling of some songs in a 30 minute window. No warm-up of anything. I wrote up 5 pages the last few days on the other 3 cables I have here for testing. I'll add in my comments on these cables this weekend and then publish in the Path of Least Resistance section.
Let me leave you with this .........................Holy Shit!!!!
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I really hate to do this to you guys. I've had these for 30 minutes and I have to run to the airport for a flight. I did get some quickie sampling of some songs in a 30 minute window. No warm-up of anything. I wrote up 5 pages the last few days on the other 3 cables I have here for testing. I'll add in my comments on these cables this weekend and then publish in the Path of Least Resistance section.
Let me leave you with this .........................Holy Shit!!!!
May your return flight have a strong tailwind.
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So is that good or bad excrement?
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The above board member (big red machine) has reviewed the Teo Audio GC RCA cable in context, against 3 other cables. The thread may be found here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=148932.0
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Excellent report! I ordered a pair on Thursday and eagerly anticipate trying them. Like Pete, I have tried a boatload of high end cables and look forward to seeing how the Teo GCs compare. I am running a Line Magnetic 508ia integrated with a Lampizator Atlantic DAC and Daedalus Ulysses speakers. I've been pretty happy with the Cerious Graphene interconnects (and happier still with their power cords and speaker cables), but with Teo Audio's generous return policy, why not give them a shot?
I'll chime in once I get them and have a chance to give them a fair hearing.
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I have had the TEO GC interconnects in my system for about 2 weeks now. This has given me enough time to do a true evaluation. I have had many cables throughout the years. Currently the Teo GC are replacing Cardas Clear and Tellerium Q Black Diamond. I do not do a quick AB comparison with cables. Rather I put them in my system and listen over an extended period of time. Of the Cardas and Tellerium I would say they are quite similar with preference leaning towards the Tellerium for what I perceive is a slightly better openness. These cables are the best I have found at a high yet not insane price. I am definitely in the camp that believes that cables do make a difference. I will get back to the cables below.
The rest of my system consists of Mastersound 845 monoblocks SET and 40wpc; These are run directly from a Phasure NOS1a DAC which uses the proprietary XXhighend software lossless volume control. The speakers are the awesome Omega 1.5 high output monitors and set of 2 GR Research dual 12" OB subwoofers. I love my system. It is very simple yet highly resolving and very musical. Other than power cables the only cables are the one set of interconnects for source to amps and speaker cables for amps to the Omegas. The subwoofers run another set of ICs to the A370PEQ amplifiers.
The first thing I will say is the Teo sound different from any cable I recall. I think there was at least a couple of days of break-in where they sounded extremely open but also quite forward sounding. After this the forwardness seemed to go away leaving an open and very high resolution musical picture with dense imaging and realistic sounding vocals and instruments. Voices and instruments were properly sized and sense of room boundaries were real sounding and accurate. Without a doubt I heard what I felt was a much more resolved musical image and truly greater detail than any of the cables I have or remember from the past. One thing I have noticed and am not sure about is my system is now extremely volume dependent. Uh what do I mean by that? I am not sure but I feel if I turn the volume up too much (and by that I mean 1 or 2 1.5db notches at most. The treble can sound hard and forward. If down too low (again by 1.5 to 3db) I feel like I am missing the total impact. As long as the volume is correct I am happy as a clam.
A couple of final points. Teo offers a 14 day no questions asked money back guarantee. For me that is as good as a road tour. Anyone considering these cables should take advantage of it. If you do not have a high resolution system I am not sure you will be able to hear some of the differences I am writing about. They are not subtle but my guess is your system should be decent before attempting. For me price performance for the Teo GC is pretty incredible seeing as what the cost of the cables I had in my system are. I am not really into the science of it all. The fact that they are liquid is interesting but I really don't care. I'll let the new technology attempt to be explained by Ken to those who want to know. I want my system to sound its best and with these ICs it does. I have no affiliation with Teo whatsoever but feel they are that good that I recommend them.
One last thing. Ken, these are the entry level. What can I expect with your higher level ICs? Feel free to PM
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Thanks for sharing celebrat!
My ups notification says my pair won't arrive til this coming Monday but I'm hoping they get here by Friday. Weather has been pretty bad back there but I think Kingston missed the bad stuff.
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My 2nd pair arrived today. Let's see if 2 is better than 1!
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One thing I have noticed and am not sure about is my system is now extremely volume dependent. Uh what do I mean by that? I am not sure but I feel if I turn the volume up too much (and by that I mean 1 or 2 1.5db notches at most. The treble can sound hard and forward. If down too low (again by 1.5 to 3db) I feel like I am missing the total impact. As long as the volume is correct I am happy as a clam.
My guess is that you've arrived at the point where great cables begin to reveal weaknesses elsewhere in your system. I recently had the same issue, and it took a long time to correct with changes in speakers and cables (ICs and PCs), mainly.
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Thanks for sharing celebrat!
My ups notification says my pair won't arrive til this coming Monday but I'm hoping they get here by Friday. Weather has been pretty bad back there but I think Kingston missed the bad stuff.
We got hit by it, and are still getting hit by it... and I missed getting some cables out today.
The first thing I will say is the Teo sound different from any cable I recall.
That is indeed the issue, is it not? It has to be heard, in one's own familiar system/context.
The trial period is 30 days, but Audiogon does an automatic '14 day' mention in their advert formatting, and I'm not yet sure how to overcome their wording.
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Good Luck Tomy2Tone. If you are saying Kinston RI not sure what you got. In southern NH we got 1 1/2 feet.
Not sure if I totally agree with the idea of great cables revealing limitations in the rest of the system. I have always had to set what I feel is the appropriate volume for a given song or album. It's just that it seems more important now like almost more precise.
Hey Ken. Hearing how they sound in my system; Yes that is the point. The fact that I prefer them in my system is even better. I did not realize about the 30 day trial. That is a very generous no brainer. So in the Audiogon ad you said you were trying to gather opinions and brand recognition and let people about the sound quality and technology of your liquid cables. Now that I have done that, please tell me what I could expect from your higher price models and God forbid the speaker cables (-:
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Regarding the sensitivity to playback levels, I have puzzled over that and come to the conclusion that the best playback level is related to the level at which the recording was mixed and mastered. This would have affected the apparent tonality the mixing and mastering engineers were working with due to the Fletcher Munsen effect. The same effect influences the apparent tonality at playback.
I used to mark the best playback level on all my CDs and records when I had a stepped volume control on the preamp I had at the time, but now that I am married other factors prevail…
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My 2 pair arrive Monday :D
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My 2 pair arrive Monday :D
I thought you were getting out because of the small digs Tony?
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I thought you were getting out because of the small digs Tony?
Out of audio? No way Pete. Just downsizing the system/speakers. I had a pair of Raidho X3 after selling the big speakers and they just weren't my thing. I now have Langerson 217 and the ML Ethos. This new room is proving to be a challenge for sure. I miss my old room :?
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Regarding the sensitivity to playback levels, I have puzzled over that and come to the conclusion that the best playback level is related to the level at which the recording was mixed and mastered. This would have affected the apparent tonality the mixing and mastering engineers were working with due to the Fletcher Munsen effect. The same effect influences the apparent tonality at playback.
I used to mark the best playback level on all my CDs and records when I had a stepped volume control on the preamp I had at the time, but now that I am married other factors prevail…
That's what I thought Russell and I too am married. Now she always selects the proper volume whenever we listen together :kiss:
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One last thing. Ken, these are the entry level. What can I expect with your higher level ICs? Feel free to PM
I have pm'd you the contact info for having that explained. It takes some give and take in actual conversation to get there.
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Has anyone tried the new Teo Balanced IC? Interested to know how they sound compared to the single ended