$175 Class D amp--120 wpc

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TrungT

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2720 on: 5 Aug 2011, 06:18 pm »
SDS-258
250W X2 @ 8 Ohm Only.

roymail

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2721 on: 5 Aug 2011, 06:31 pm »
SDS-258
250W X2 @ 8 Ohm Only.

Got it... thanks Trung!

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2722 on: 5 Aug 2011, 06:33 pm »
What is the difference between this amp and the SDS-258?  Thanks!

Quote
SDS kit including two SDS-224 Amplifiers, transformer, and large power supply.

krikor

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2723 on: 8 Aug 2011, 10:30 pm »
Now I've done it... FINALLY pulled the trigger on a pair Class D Audio amps after lurking about this board for the past year or so. Got two of the new SDS-450 amps I plan to run either mono or passive biamp on a pair of Magnepan 1.6QR.

I officially now have way too many projects sitting in my closet, hope I can get this one fired up ASAP.

topp

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2724 on: 9 Aug 2011, 02:41 am »
Before I start drilling away and permanently mounting my amp components I wanted to get your guy's input on the best way to layout the case.  Currently I am only planning on running 2 of the CDA-254 boards, but I want to plan to allow me to add a third later if desired.  In case your wondering I am going to use the third one for a car amp.

Below are the 2 layout options I have come up with.  Can you guys let me know which one you think is better or if there is another option I should consider?  For both layouts I was going to have the RCA inputs closest to the back.

Option A

Option B


Thanks,
Topp

wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2725 on: 9 Aug 2011, 03:06 am »
Option B

I thought you could run only two amp boards off of one power supply?

topp

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2726 on: 9 Aug 2011, 01:34 pm »
I asked Tom how many amps his power supply could run, and he said 3.  But I ideally it would have a larger toroidal transformer.

Thanks,
Topp

firedog

Got a "complete" SDS-470...sort of
« Reply #2727 on: 11 Aug 2011, 12:56 pm »
Received my  Built SDS-470 amp. One amp board with 250W X 2 into 8 and 2 X 500 into 4 ohms. Can bridge to 1 X 500. It's about 12 X 12 inches and 4 or so inches in height. Very heavy for it's size. That transformer is seriously big. Everyone who knows something about electricity and has seen the inside of the amp has commented on it.

The good news: It works, and looks pretty good, too. First impression of the sound is favourable. Will write more on that after it breaks in and I've had more of a chance to listen.

But getting there was a bit of a story.

Received the amp through International express mail. Got it home and opened the box. Disappointed....not packed well. Just placed in a cardboard box and then Styrofoam chips poured in to fill the box. That's it.

Plugged it in as a test and...fuse on my electrical board jumped. Tried a few different electrical chords and outlets- same result.

Opened the case: Wow, damage during shipment. Some of the screws attaching the amp board and PS board loosened from their sockets during shipment and the boards could move around inside the case. Also, two of the 3 cables connecting the transformer to the PS board had torn free. Apparently, rough handling together with the fact that the packing didn't prevent the whole amp from moving inside the box had generated forces that totally loosened several screws and cables.

Downloaded the electrical schematic from Tom's website, and wrote Tom to confirm that the way I thought to reconnect everything was correct. Left my phone number (I have a US VOIP number that forwards to my cell phone). Tom called later that day and confirmed my plan. Was very apologetic about the packaging, and promised to fix that issue. Also suggested I check the fuse and replace it.

Reconnected the loose bits. Turned amp on....the relevant house fuses  still jumped.  Luckily I have 2 neighbors who are electricians. One agreed to look so I brought him the amp. He came to the conclusion that  two of the wires between the electrical (IEC) socket  input and the on-off switch at the front were hooked up in reverse – one way on one end, the other way on the other end. He switched them to match the schematic. Turned on amp...no fuses jumped! Let's get this thing home and see what happens.

At home, placed the amp in system. Turned it on. But....no sound. Many expletives deleted.

At the suggestion of the electrician, wrote Tom and found out exactly what the voltage ins and outs at various points in the amp are supposed to be, so we could check for problems.

The second neighbor/electrician dropped by the next day. Asked him to get out his multi-tester and have a look. He did and immediately asked me if the amp had a burnt fuse. It hadn't previously, but now we checked and the fuse was most definitely burnt. Replaced fuse. Checked that amp seemed to be functioning according to values relayed by Tom. Yes... seems okay.

Plugged amp in, everything seemed fine, and all the little LEDs on the boards lighting up as they should.

Put amp back in system. Connected and turned everything on....no music/audio, just hum and noise....more expletives. Then remembered that the amp had a switch on the back for switching between “bridged” and “not bridged” modes. Flicked switch to other position and... music! No hum!

So in the end, the amp is working. But basically due to amateurish packaging, it arrived damaged and my experience with it was somewhat like doing it DIY. Not what should happen with a “finished” product. I'm just lucky I have friends who were willing to help me out.

As far as sound, I won't say too much till it breaks in and I listen some more. The amp is being fed from the pre-out of my MF-X-150 integrated (I will eventually replace the preamp also.)

First impressions: very noticeable increase in bass slam, and just a feeling of less strain, a more easy overall flow in the sound. Drums and bass definitely are improved. Soundstage is different, too. Just not sure how yet. This amp also seems "faster". So some very noticeable improvements, but I don't want to describe them as earthshaking. But this is only in the first few hours, we'll see what I think in a few days. I assume more differences will become apparent. Have to listen to some music that used to strain the system, like a big symphonic work, and see how that sounds.

Anyway, I think audiophiles often exaggerate the differences upgrades make. Every small difference becomes “a veil being lifted”, or “my system sounds totally different”, etc. I don't want to create expectations for others who might be thinking of buying one of these. But it does sound noticeably different, and is doing more or less what I hoped when I decided to by a class D amp with more than double the power of what I was using previously.

As far as cosmetics, it looks pretty good. The case looks more or less like a grey PC case, but the front panel is silver and in a brushed metal - quite nice. Doesn't look very different from the front panel of my MF equipment. How can you tell it's not a high end piece of equipment? The screws on the front panel are standard round Philips head screws. Not flat headed, and not flush with the surface of the front panel. As far as I know, this was the second “complete amp” Tom  has sold, and the first silver one (the others are black). So the on-off switch and company logo are black. Don't blend well with the amp faceplate, IMO. I'm guessing Tom doesn't even have silver switches or logos to match the faceplate, at least for now. But hey, that's the kind of stuff you pay big bucks for when you buy from the "audiophile" companies. And this thing definitely didn't come with that kind of price tag.

Finally, I do want to stress that if it wasn't for the shipping problems, I'd have been very happy. The amp does seem to be well made, and with good parts. The binding posts are better than the ones on my MF amp, for instance. (I'll try to include some pictures).

Here's what I wrote Tom to sum up the buying experience:

Quote
“Suggestions for the future:
1) You have to pack future amps so they can’t move inside the box. Generally audio products I’ve received are packed with form fitting hard Styrofoam on 2 opposite sides of the device case that extend out to the sides of the box and prevent movement.

The other option would be to wrap it in bubble wrap so that with the wrap the amp totally fills the space in the box. That way it couldn’t move and would also be protected.

There are signs the amp also took a blow from below, so that has to be taken into account. You need some top/bottom protection . If I lived in the States, I simply would have asked you to replace/fix the amp upon receipt. It’s not a kit, so your customers for complete products aren’t going to want to fix them on their own – unlike kits. I was willing because the hassle and expense of shipping the amp back and forth to the States simply wasn't worth it.

2) I think you need to label all the connections and switches on the back. This is something that finished products have. For instance, the switch for the “bridge” isn't marked in any way, so I wouldn't have had any idea why there was a toggle switch on the back of the amp before I asked you.

3) Cosmetics. The brushed front panel looks quite nice. I know you’re just getting started making finished amps, but IMO the silver faceplate would look a lot classier if the on-off switch was silver colored, and the company logo was say, black or colored lettering on a silver background. Both would blend in much better with the silver faceplate that way and look more “high-end”.
Hopefully the amp will work fine for many years from here on out.”










wgscott

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2728 on: 11 Aug 2011, 01:28 pm »
Quote
my experience with it was somewhat like doing it DIY

 :lol:

I was going to say something like that, but I was worried you wouldn't think it was funny. 

I hope it settles down/in and that you enjoy it.

I would invest in a new face-plate.  I used these guys:  http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/index.html

I can give you my logo template; it was sort of an ordeal to make it.

firedog

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2729 on: 11 Aug 2011, 01:43 pm »
:lol:

I was going to say something like that, but I was worried you wouldn't think it was funny. 

I hope it settles down/in and that you enjoy it.

I would invest in a new face-plate.  I used these guys:  http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/index.html

I can give you my logo template; it was sort of an ordeal to make it.

Basically, I ended up being the guinea pig for an inexperienced company selling a complete product for the first time. I'm sure Tom will learn from his mistakes and others will get well made amps for a good price, without the damage. He should probably add another $10 bucks per amp to his shipping charge just to pay for better packaging. The amps would still be cheap, and both he and his customers would be happier.

Thanks for the suggestion about the faceplate. I'll think about it. But at this point I'm so tired of the hassle that I think I'll just try and enjoy the music for a while.

srb

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2730 on: 11 Aug 2011, 02:16 pm »
Thanks for the suggestion about the faceplate. I'll think about it. But at this point I'm so tired of the hassle that I think I'll just try and enjoy the music for a while.

I think you will feel better about the not-too-bad-looking front panel with a set of replacement satin stainless steel hex button head screws available most anywhere in the world for a few dollars.
 

 
I think the rear panel does absolutely need to be silkscreened with legends.
 
As far as the shorted AC electrical input wiring, I'm totally baffled as to how it is possible the manufacturer didn't at the very least power up the amp to insure that it was in fact operational? 
 
Steve

roymail

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2731 on: 11 Aug 2011, 05:41 pm »
When shipping an amplifier, I would strongly suggest a minimum of 2 inches of hard styrofoam on all sides, bottom and top.  The amp itself should be wrapped with an appropriate amount of bubble wrap, then placed in the box so as there is NO MOVEMENT at all.

Why would you package it any other way?

poseidonsvoice

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2732 on: 11 Aug 2011, 06:22 pm »
Basically, I ended up being the guinea pig for an inexperienced company selling a complete product for the first time. I'm sure Tom will learn from his mistakes and others will get well made amps for a good price, without the damage. He should probably add another $10 bucks per amp to his shipping charge just to pay for better packaging. The amps would still be cheap, and both he and his customers would be happier.

Thanks for the suggestion about the faceplate. I'll think about it. But at this point I'm so tired of the hassle that I think I'll just try and enjoy the music for a while.

firedog,

I'm happily still using your SB Touch remote control! Thanks again for the sale  (and for the great packaging).

I feel bad about your purchase, as this is a really great amplifier for the money (I completely concur, Tom does have to up the ante in packaging completed amplifiers, it is not the same as mailing a circuit board). It was cheaper to build than my dual mono gainclone, yet it outperforms it, in many areas for less money. I diy'ed my own using jtwrace's chassis. Pics are available right here. I also used Front Panel Express, if you need some ideas. The rear was made by jtwrace using engraving from his work, but the same can be done easily by Front Panel Express.

Hope you enjoy the amp. I will be using them in my family room to power some Magnepan MMGW's I got for the wife and kids. Should work great.

Best,

Anand.

rajesh

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2733 on: 12 Aug 2011, 03:09 am »
Nice work there Anand.  :thumb: I can see that you have connected the Balanced input with RCA using two wires out of which one is without any insulation or shielding. IMHO it may be a good idea to provide shielding to prevent any stray EMI/RF being picked up by the system.

BTW, what is the role of IEC power filter? It sounds interesting.


krikor

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2734 on: 12 Aug 2011, 01:35 pm »
Firedog and Corndog71...

I notice on the pics of both your amps there are no gain pots... are these set for a fixed gain? It's hard to tell from the pics if you have a resistor in the molex connector where the pots usually attach.

Thanks... just wondering since I've got the SDS-450 on the way and I am planning to gain match it to my DAC/preamp.

firedog

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2735 on: 12 Aug 2011, 01:52 pm »
My understanding is that all the SDS boards have the possibility for gain control on the board. But ask Tom about your amp.

roymail

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2736 on: 12 Aug 2011, 02:56 pm »
My understanding is that all the SDS boards have the possibility for gain control on the board. But ask Tom about your amp.

firedog, did you request a specific gain setting?

firedog

Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2737 on: 12 Aug 2011, 03:34 pm »
No, I just told Tom about my preamp and he said the standard setting should work fine.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2738 on: 12 Aug 2011, 04:44 pm »
Nice work there Anand.  :thumb: I can see that you have connected the Balanced input with RCA using two wires out of which one is without any insulation or shielding. IMHO it may be a good idea to provide shielding to prevent any stray EMI/RF being picked up by the system.

BTW, what is the role of IEC power filter? It sounds interesting.

I opted not to do it, due to the incredible CMRR rendered by the input stage of the SDS unit, which was designed by Bill Whitlock. Besides, the length of wiring is minimal in comparison to other designs or even interconnects, etc...Regarding the lack of insulation on one of the wires, yah...I got lazy and it was super short!

The unit is dead quiet on 95dB/8 ohm/1 watt @ 1 meter speakers.

Anand.

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Re: $175 Class D amp--120 wpc
« Reply #2739 on: 12 Aug 2011, 04:53 pm »
BTW, what is the role of IEC power filter? It sounds interesting.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=18443.0

Or use the search function and type in "Felix".  There are many threads on them.