Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.

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Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #280 on: 24 Apr 2011, 01:00 am »
Danny, I'd be interested in giving a listen, but I'm afraid there's no group that I could gather together for a listen, just me and perhaps my DW if she's inclined to indulge me.  I've been curious since the git-go. Is a stop in Boise, ID a possibility? How to start the ball rolling?

Sure, just send me all of your contact info and call me on Monday with the CC info for security.

Rclark

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #281 on: 1 May 2011, 04:53 am »

 
 You know what, I'd love to try these. My Vitue Two.2 should be here in a few days so I'll have a proper amplifier to test this out on and I also have proper weighted monitor stands. This will be an excellent learning opportunity.

 Please put me on the list.

Davey

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #282 on: 1 May 2011, 06:32 pm »
Much higher than that. From the first group...

Next stop was Davey. I don't think Davey expected to hear a difference. However, he stated....

In my rig the difference was pretty significant, but I have a very resolving rig.


Well, I think we have some flawed logic rearing its ugly head here.  :)  The "resolvingness" of the upstream "rig" had/has no effect on an evaluation such as this because it's a constant.

And anyway, who's to say how resolving my upstream rig is?  Danny, you don't have any idea what upstream system (I have many at my disposal) I used to make this evaluation.

Cheers,

Dave.

Rclark

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #283 on: 1 May 2011, 07:13 pm »
... He quoted you, nothing more  :scratch:

kingdeezie

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #284 on: 1 May 2011, 07:15 pm »
... He quoted you, nothing more  :scratch:

+1

Davey

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #285 on: 1 May 2011, 07:33 pm »
He said, "In my rig the difference was pretty significant, but I have a very resolving rig."

The inference is that a very/more resolving rig will highlight the differences further.  I read it that way.  Do you fellas not read it that way?

Dave.

srb

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #286 on: 1 May 2011, 07:50 pm »
The inference is that a very/more resolving rig will highlight the differences further.  I read it that way.  Do you fellas not read it that way?

yes

Rclark

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #287 on: 1 May 2011, 08:56 pm »
.... Isn't that also part of it, common sense? I don't understand how that ruffles feathers?

S Clark

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #288 on: 1 May 2011, 09:13 pm »
... and the fact is that Danny simply does have a top level rig.  However, I think you can buy his amps and preamp from him--- if you've got around $35-40K sitting around. For another 3-6 thousand you can include a pair of LS9's or SuperV's.
And a better rig is usually more resolving.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #289 on: 2 May 2011, 02:17 am »
Quote
And anyway, who's to say how resolving my upstream rig is?  Danny, you don't have any idea what upstream system (I have many at my disposal) I used to make this evaluation.

I didn't say anything about your rig.

And yes, a more resolving rig makes it very easy to hear the differences in the two networks compared to one that is less resolving.

It is kind of like trying to discern the difference in the picture quality of two TV's. It is much easier when you don't have mud all over your glasses.

Davey

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #290 on: 2 May 2011, 03:44 am »
No, it's really not like that at all.  :)  The analogy is poor.

I can see how this comparison concept might be confusing to yourself and some other folks because it's not intuitively obvious.

You did a fine job configuring these speakers for an apples-to-apples comparison.  However, the "resolving power" of the front end rig is not a variable in this experiment......only the crossovers themselves.

To turn this into a real "learning opportunity" for your peeps, you should identify and publish (after all the auditioning is done) the objective aspects of the "quality" crossover and compare them to the stock crossover to analyze the differences.  Subjective evaluations exclusively can only conclude so much.

I urge you to think about it further.

Cheers,

Dave.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #291 on: 2 May 2011, 04:00 am »
Quote
I urge you to think about it further.

I would urge you the same.

The fact is that if everything upstream has so degraded the signal to such a degree that clearing it up in only one area of the chain may not be as obvious.

However, on a system that is very clear and completely transparent it is very easy to hear the degrading effect of just one thing in the chain.

ttan98

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #292 on: 2 May 2011, 01:08 pm »

It is kind of like trying to discern the difference in the picture quality of two TV's. It is much easier when you don't have mud all over your glasses.

To able to distinguish the audio differences between the 2 sets of capacitors one needs to have "experienced/trained ears". Most purveyors of audio equipments are trained to listen to minute differences in audio qualities because they listen to music constantly. They and some audiophiles are in a better position to distinguished the differences.
At one stage I was comparing differences in coupling capacitors in tube amplifiers that  I lost the big picture of good engineering design. The differences are minute only a trained ears were able tot detect them. The real audio differences lie in std caps(polyester) and polypropylene caps is large and polypropylene caps from different suppliers the audio differences are small(only in nuance). To spend lots of money on getting the "best" caps is only a waste of good hard earned money in my opinion.

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #293 on: 2 May 2011, 03:00 pm »
Quote
To able to distinguish the audio differences between the 2 sets of capacitors one needs to have "experienced/trained ears".


Actually if you conduct the comparison properly the untrained/non-audiophile works just as well.

The key to many of the comparisons is memory retention. You can't overload that capacity and expect any reasonable results. Repeating short segments allows an inexperienced listener to quickly learn the subtleties that change between each comparison.

Rclark

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #294 on: 2 May 2011, 10:19 pm »
I never knew how bitter a person could become after age and hearing loss until I joined an audio forum.


"If I can't hear it by god no one can and that's that!"

Peter J

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #295 on: 5 May 2011, 06:18 pm »
Behringers showed up today, thanks Dave.

 Danny, as I recall our conversation, you said to NOT hook all four speaker leads simultaneously, but rather use only the "switched on" network connections...correct?

Just so I understand, what would the downside be to hooking all four at once?

Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #296 on: 5 May 2011, 06:55 pm »
Quote
Danny, as I recall our conversation, you said to NOT hook all four speaker leads simultaneously, but rather use only the "switched on" network connections...correct?

Yes, connect one or the other.

Quote
Just so I understand, what would the downside be to hooking all four at once?

If I remember correctly it would connect the shut parts in both networks if you did that.

Top connectors and switches all up, or bottom connectors (tube connectors) and all switches down.

Peter J

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #297 on: 6 May 2011, 06:20 pm »
My impressions after listening:

  As Danny suggested I used familiar snippets of music and also did some casual listening.

The Tester:
 I’d describe myself as mostly neutral on the general subject of wires, interconnects, network components and such, so this was an interesting endeavor. My dad taught me zipcord… later I concluded there was something better, but drew the line at what smells of snake oil or carries an outlandish price tag. Yep, it’s mostly subjective… although, truth be told, if I had more money to spend on gear I’d try some esoterica just to satisfy my curiosity. No agenda except to gather knowledge. My hearing isn’t perfect, I certainly don’t have golden ears but love music and the stuff that reproduces it.

 The Gear: Cary CD308 CD player, Musical Fidelity A3 integrated amp, Goertz Micro-Purl interconnects, PS Audio Power Plant. Speaker cables are whatever Danny included. Setup is shown in pic.

FWIW: I was a little surprised by the Behringers, especially considering their price tag.

Primary Music Snippets, all at beginning of track to facilitate repeating.
  “The Be Good Tanyas – Blue Horse”, track # 2, Broken Telephone
Leads in with what sounds like an ocean wave background and an acoustic guitar.
  “Eleanor McElroy – Yola”, track #1 I Got You To See Me Through”
Lead in is strummed guitar?(maybe steel or Dobro), and single notes on Piano.
  “Vienna Teng – Warm Strangers” track #8, Homecoming
Starts with Piano

My Conclusions: There is a difference; it’s not in your (or at least my) face to be sure, but I can hear differences when listening carefully. I honestly don’t know if I could pick out the Danny network every time. If it were a concentrated listening session with familiar music, I’d stand a better chance than if I was mindlessly listening, which is often the case in this house.
 What am I hearing? My mind wrestles with all the adjectives I’ve encountered describing how systems sound…a slippery slope at best, but I’ll give it a go! The original network sounds a little “wooly” in comparison, a bit less detail or clarity perhaps, “inner detail” is the best I can think of. I wouldn’t put it on a gross scale, but rather the “edges” of the music are better defined.

 Let me try an analogy where I have more knowledge…wood finishing. It’s not about the stain or lacquer, it’s about that single drop of red dye that almost imperceptibly shifted color to a more organic and pleasing tone. It’s a hard thing to quantify, but there none-the-less.

That’s my assessment. It may have just reinforced what I already thought. I’d conclude that, for me, knowing it made a difference wouldn’t be enough to make me buy the whatever-it-is. I’d have to put it in the context of how I’d listen. Big boom movie soundtracks or speakers for the echo chamber shop? That’d strike me as a waste. If it were a sit down and listen in the living room kinda thing, I’d probably decide I wanted all the water in that well.

Who's next in line for a listen?


Danny Richie

Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #298 on: 6 May 2011, 06:35 pm »
Ah man, is that a pushed in dust cap I see?

Peter J

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Re: Okay all of you nay sayers, flat Earthers, etc.
« Reply #299 on: 6 May 2011, 06:41 pm »
It is, Danny. I assumed you knew about it, they came out of box that way. I can do a "vacuum restoration" if you like.