C&C Bucket Sub Revisited

Poultrygeist · « **on:** 24 Aug 2014, 01:19 pm »

I drove over to Ed's Hornshoppe last week and heard two of his bucket subs for the first time. I've read a few threads on this sub but I don't think they were taken very seriously ( I know I didn't ) as they never got beyond a few pages. But I'm here to tell you this is one serious sub.

Some folks at AK built them but I believe they deviated from Ed's precise instructions which results in something very different from what I heard.

After listening to the two bucket subs powered by a Crown amp I could not believe my ears.

Ed had them in a setup featuring two pair of the Nelson Pass Amp Camp amps bi-amping the Great Heil Horns with a Boozehound active crossover and Truth preamp. This represents some fine high end gear yet the bucket sub with it's $66 Peerless woofer MADE the system.

Y'all probably think I'm blowing hot air. So I encourage you to build one and you'll see for yourself.

http://www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Subwoofer.html

rodge827 · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Aug 2014, 10:28 pm »

Thanks for revisiting this sub build.

I kinda forgot about it and now I'm thinking of building a couple.
Will make for a fun fall project.

Chris

mresseguie · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Aug 2014, 04:05 am »

I, too, appreciate your revisiting this.

I'm really interested in trying this out. My only problem with it is where the hell can I put it so my wife doesn't drive me nuts complaining about how ugly it is?

I'll bet I can build a box to camouflage it, but it would have to be a pretty box. Sigh.

I think I figured out where to place it (or even two of them). Research time.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Aug 2014, 04:35 am »

Quote from: mresseguie on 28 Aug 2014, 04:05 am

I, too, appreciate your revisiting this. I'm really interested in trying this out. My only problem with it is where the hell can I put it so my wife doesn't drive me nuts complaining about how ugly it is?

I'll bet I can build a box to camouflage it, but it would have to be a pretty box. Sigh.

I think I figured out where to place it (or even two of them). Research time.

Hi M.
If you have problem with your WIF how about replacing your wife with a new one?
I am ready to make a change for change with my wife.
She's very understanding when it comes to big (And even ugly) audio stuff,
and she's Asian, therefore no need to change your habits.
So, when do we do the wife's swap.

Guy 13

I am really lucky to have a so understanding wife.

mresseguie · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Aug 2014, 05:14 pm »

Guy,

I'm afraid I must be selfish as my wife is a keeper. I will not share her with anyone. Sorry.

Perhaps, we can find something else to swap.

randytsuch · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Aug 2014, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: mresseguie on 28 Aug 2014, 04:05 am

I, too, appreciate your revisiting this. I'm really interested in trying this out. My only problem with it is where the hell can I put it so my wife doesn't drive me nuts complaining about how ugly it is?

I'll bet I can build a box to camouflage it, but it would have to be a pretty box. Sigh.

I think I figured out where to place it (or even two of them). Research time.

That was always my problem with this project, coming up with a way to make it look nice, but I may still try it.
Maybe a nice textured paint would work.

One of these days I'm going to finish a set of LGK's and I want a sub to go along with them.

Randy

Brad · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Aug 2014, 05:45 pm »

Another thumbs up for the bucket subs.

I still like the pair I built, driven by a Crown amp.
I went with basic Home Depot orange.

To make them look better, I'm thinking a fabric slipcover

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Sep 2014, 09:53 am »

Quote from: Brad on 28 Aug 2014, 05:45 pm

Another thumbs up for the bucket subs. I still like the pair I built, driven by a Crown amp.
I went with basic Home Depot orange.

To make them look better, I'm thinking a fabric slipcover

Maybe vinyl contact paper or wall paper.

To improve WAF I used a Ralph Lauren print on my open baffles.

Guy 13 · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Sep 2014, 10:05 am »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 2 Sep 2014, 09:53 am

Maybe vinyl contact paper or wall paper.

To improve WAF I used a Ralph Lauren print on my open baffles.

Hi Poultrygeist,
any picture ????

Guy 13

A picture is worth a thousand words.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #9 on:** 2 Sep 2014, 10:58 am »

OB's covered with Ralph Lauren print

Guy 13 · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Sep 2014, 11:02 am »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 2 Sep 2014, 10:58 am

OB's covered with Ralph Lauren print

Thanks Poultrygeist,
not my favorite pattern and color,
but when I see something nice,
I say it.

Guy 13

Folsom · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Sep 2014, 12:15 am »

I actually believed it was good. His original Horns are fun, but I think they're falling behind on their own. I don't use mine atm, not since I made a pair of upgraded Encrores from Danny.

However, I've considered making this sub. The direct of the sub firing isn't what I'd do.

My biggest question is whether or not the bucket is better than a wood box. Frankly if I can figure good enough amplification from a class D diy kit, I'd like to pair something this responsive with the new LGK OB kit coming out.

Odal3 · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Sep 2014, 03:37 am »

Curious about this build too. How is the sound compared to a good OB sub?

Unfortunately I can't build one myself until my broken collarbone heals up - In other words I have plenty of time right now for planning and the C&C Circle has already given me some good ideas.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Sep 2014, 10:08 am »

Quote from: Odal3 on 4 Sep 2014, 03:37 am

Curious about this build too. How is the sound compared to a good OB sub?

Unfortunately I can't build one myself until my broken collarbone heals up - In other words I have plenty of time right now for planning and the C&C Circle has already given me some good ideas.

Bucket subs are true subs and a great choice to augment OB woofers which lack visceral impact.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Sep 2014, 10:25 am »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 4 Sep 2014, 12:15 am

I actually believed it was good. His original Horns are fun, but I think they're falling behind on their own. I don't use mine atm, not since I made a pair of upgraded Encrores from Danny.

However, I've considered making this sub. The direct of the sub firing isn't what I'd do.

My biggest question is whether or not the bucket is better than a wood box. Frankly if I can figure good enough amplification from a class D diy kit, I'd like to pair something this responsive with the new LGK OB kit coming out.

Ed's upgrade with the Heils, bi-amps and active crossover take the HS horns to another level. Amazing clarity and the Crown powered buckets were so well integrated I had no idea where they were located.

It pains me to say this but those red neck buckets surpass my Dayton Reference subs in the nice knock down cabs from PE.

Folsom · « **Reply #15 on:** 4 Sep 2014, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 4 Sep 2014, 10:25 am

Ed's upgrade with the Heils, bi-amps and active crossover take the HS horns to another level. Amazing clarity and the Crown powered buckets were so well integrated I had no idea where they were located.

It pains me to say this but those red neck buckets surpass my Dayton Reference subs in the nice knock down cabs from PE.

I think the Fostex driver is dated. I think Ed should try and get the drivers from Louis at Omega, that were intended to be DIY, and maybe order them. Ed's boxes are solid, and he really turned up the right formula with them that has out lasted every DIY attempt, but they could use some better technology. In fact you know what, I bet Danny could have a good driver worked up for them. He took the Hawthorns to a new interesting level already.

I hope someone tries this sub in a non-bucket to report the differences. If they're good, I may have to design a box for stereo subwoofers playing to 200-250hz.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Sep 2014, 01:25 am »

The Fostex is one of the few if not the only 4.5" driver that's efficient enough for SET amps.

That alone is probably enough to insure their continued popularity.

Folsom · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Sep 2014, 05:52 pm »

Well, they require horns basically, so they aren't that popular. Other manufacturers have far surpassed them with ones that play correctly in ported boxes, such as Louis at Omega.

Do I think it's a good platform? Well, ya, I do own a pair of Horns.

Anyways the Bucket sub, very interesting, still, to me. But the question is what came first a good sub or a magic bucket. I'm all for the bucket implementation in a lot of circumstances, but it's really best when the subwoofers placement isn't a big deal. In fact several of them placed around the room would probably be thrilling. However if the speaker gets used in a speaker or with a speaker for higher frequency use, it location, shape, direction, etc, change significantly.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Sep 2014, 09:23 pm »

From the scores of folks building the Frugal Horn Mk3 ( I have two pair ) you'd never know the FE126en's were not very popular.

Odal3 · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Sep 2014, 11:48 pm »

Poultrygeist - Thank for the info, much appreciated as always.

Here is a longer discussion thread by Ed Schilling and others discussing the design, results, hook-ups and amp choices. http://tubehifi.websitetoolbox.com/post/Subwoofer-Project-6426090?&trail=15

Per this thread, Crown XLS 1500 is the recommended amp for the bucket subs (was the preferred option over the BASH plate amps). But, is there a good C&C amp alternative to make it easier to match the smaller foot print of a TPA3116 and an Astron (still waiting for parts and psu for the TPA so I'm yet to hear it...can't wait)?

I'm convinced, bucket production will start in a few weeks!

BTW: The Peerless SLS 830667 driver is the smaller version of the driver SL used in the Pluto+ subwoofer design (10" Peerless SLS in a 14 liter sealed box) http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Pluto/subwoofer.htm