[Guy 13]

Hello Guy
The mesh plate is actually technically a misnomer - The Sophias are actually perf plates / perforated plates. My understanding is that true meshplates are made of a wire mesh, and perf plates like the Sophias are solid plates with holes punched in them. The mesh plates are much more expensive to manufacture.

I like the Sophias, but how much of the sound is a function of the plates I do not know.

Sophia does indeed make 300bs with perforated plates.

Emission Labs makes mesh plates and will tell you why they are the best, although who knows if they're accurate: http://www.emissionlabs.com/html/products/Warning-Chinese-Fake-mesh.htm

Hi sebrof.
Thanks for the info and the link.
I think I will stay with el84 or later maybe el34 mainly because they are more affordable
than the 2A3 and 300B.

Guy 13

 

[sebrof]

Hi sebrof.
Thanks for the info and the link.
I think I will stay with el84 or later maybe el34 mainly because they are more affordable
than the 2A3 and 300B.

Guy 13

Yes, true that most 300B and 2A3 are more expensive. I run single ended so only need to buy 2 at a time. That way it's not so painful to the wallet.

[Redboy]

Hi sebrof.
Thanks for the info and the link.
I think I will stay with el84 or later maybe el34 mainly because they are more affordable
than the 2A3 and 300B.

Guy 13

I really like the humble EL84 in single-ended applications: when done right it can hold its own against the true triodes!   

Here are my EL84 monoblock amps:

[Guy 13]

I really like the humble EL84 in single-ended applications: when done right it can hold its own against the true triodes!   

Here are my EL84 monoblock amps:

Hi Redboy,
may I know what are the components on your monoblocs?
I think the thin chromed cans are capacitors,
but what about the one in the front?
I guess your monoblocs put out about 2 wpc?
What the manufacturer's name,
I would like to go on their website to learn more.

Guy 13

[FullRangeMan]

Hi Redboy,
may I know what are the components on your monoblocs?
I think the thin chromed cans are capacitors,
but what about the one in the front?
I guess your monoblocs put out about 2 wpc?
What the manufacturer's name,
I would like to go on their website to learn more.

Guy 13

I would guess the round transformer are a expensive Tango choke.

[Redboy]

Hi Redboy,
may I know what are the components on your monoblocs?
I think the thin chromed cans are capacitors,
but what about the one in the front?
I guess your monoblocs put out about 2 wpc?
What the manufacturer's name,
I would like to go on their website to learn more.

Guy 13

Hi Guy,
 
You're right - the taller cylinders are capacitors.  At front are the output transformers, which are made by James Audio.  I think your power output guess is about right, though they may manage another watt or so beyond that - I don't know, as I haven't had the means to measure.

No website, unfortunately, as I built them myself... 

I've had them along to a couple of audio meets over the years, and they've been well received.  The EL84 is no slouch, when treated properly.

[Guy 13]

Hi Guy,
 
You're right - the taller cylinders are capacitors.  At front are the output transformers, which are made by James Audio.  I think your power output guess is about right, though they may manage another watt or so beyond that - I don't know, as I haven't had the means to measure.

No website, unfortunately, as I built them myself... 

I've had them along to a couple of audio meets over the years, and they've been well received.  The EL84 is no slouch, when treated properly.

Hi Redboy,
may I call you Superboy?
You made them yourself !
Those are really, really nice units.
Thanks.

Guy 13

One last thing.
May I ask what make - type of tubes you are using.
Look like el84M EH, what about the others?
Is the rectifier tube a 6X4 ?
If it is would it be better to use a 5AR4 or 5U4 ?
 

[sebrof]

Hi Redboy,
may I call you Superboy?
You made them yourself !
Those are really, really nice units.
Thanks.

Guy 13

I might mention that although it doesn't look like Redboy spends a lot of time on this forum, on at least one other forum he is well know as a very respected and knowledgeable builder. Dude builds a lot of stuff. 

[Redboy]

Hi Redboy,
may I call you Superboy?
You made them yourself !
Those are really, really nice units.
Thanks.

Guy 13

One last thing.
May I ask what make - type of tubes you are using.
Look like el84M EH, what about the others?
Is the rectifier tube a 6X4 ?
If it is would it be better to use a 5AR4 or 5U4 ?

Thanks for the kind words, Guy. 

Tube complement is EL84 power tube (I roll a lot of vintage glass through), 6AU6 driver, and an EZ81/6CA4 rectifier.  The 6CA4 is a stout little tube, totally up to the task.  I like it quite a bit, and with a good power supply (this one's got two chokes and poly in oil film caps), it sounds excellent.  I don't think a 5AR4 or 5U4 would be better, though they would likely be different.  Changing rectifiers in a given circuit will affect the B+ voltage, as different rectifiers have different voltage drops - I'm one of those guys that believes the different tonal qualities attributed to those tubes are largely a result of changed operating points in a given circuit.

I might mention that although it doesn't look like Redboy spends a lot of time on this forum, on at least one other forum he is well know as a very respected and knowledgeable builder. Dude builds a lot of stuff. 

Blown my cover, eh? 

[Guy 13]

Thanks for the kind words, Guy. 

Tube complement is EL84 power tube (I roll a lot of vintage glass through), 6AU6 driver, and an EZ81/6CA4 rectifier.  The 6CA4 is a stout little tube, totally up to the task.  I like it quite a bit, and with a good power supply (this one's got two chokes and poly in oil film caps), it sounds excellent.  I don't think a 5AR4 or 5U4 would be better, though they would likely be different.  Changing rectifiers in a given circuit will affect the B+ voltage, as different rectifiers have different voltage drops - I'm one of those guys that believes the different tonal qualities attributed to those tubes are largely a result of changed operating points in a given circuit.

Blown my cover, eh? 

Hi Redboy.
Please forget about your blown cover, we need more guys like you
here on AC.
Whenever you feel like it, please post more pictures of those monoblock
or any other creations of yours.

Guy 13

[Redboy]

Hi Redboy.
Please forget about your blown cover, we need more guys like you
here on AC.
Whenever you feel like it, please post more pictures of those monoblock
or any other creations of yours.

Guy 13

Sure, Guy.  Here are a few...


SE 46 monoblocks, my "black and metal" project most recently finished






SE 2A3 monoblocks that I built for a friend






Stereo single-ended EL84 "integrated" amp in a 7" box.  This circuit is a clone of an old console amp, so I call it Dolly (like the sheep, not the Parton!)






the EL84 monos posted earlier.  Single ended, Ultralinear





stereo SET 2A3 (my first DIY build) based on Joseph Esmilla's Simple 45 design





a stereo SET 45 that I built for another friend

[Guy 13]

Hi Redboy.
Thanks for all the nice pictures,
that's more than what I was expecting.
Thanks a lot.
I really prefer the look of your el84
My only comment, that's because of my personal taste,
I would like to see the wood base a darker color and that's because I don't really like natural wood, it's too pale for me, like liveless.
Other than that, I love the look.



One question, how would you describe the difference in sound between the el84 and the 2A3 ?

Guy 13

 

[Redboy]

Hi Redboy.
Thanks for all the nice pictures,
that's more than what I was expecting.
Thanks a lot.
I really prefer the look of your el84
My only comment, that's because of my personal taste,
I would like to see the wood base a darker color and that's because I don't really like natural wood, it's too pale for me, like liveless.
Other than that, I love the look.

This personal taste thing is funny, isn't it?  Aesthetics are important to me and I spend too much time thinking about them - some projects stall completely because I can't find a way to make them look right...   

One question, how would you describe the difference in sound between the el84 and the 2A3 ?

They can be quite similar, actually. They're both such great sounding tubes... I have a friend who is fond of saying that "you can't build a bad sounding EL84 amp".  Similarly, there's an old Sound Practices article (SP15) by Joe Roberts called "I Never Met a 2A3 Amp That I Didn't Like" (Google it - it's a fun read!). 

The two tubes have very different reputations, though.  While the 2A3 is one of the darlings of the SET world and often gets built into modern kilobuck audiophile amplifiers, the EL84 is better known for its use in grungy guitar amplifiers, consoles and push-pull tube receivers from the vintage HiFi era.  Most people haven't heard the EL84 treated properly, so that was one of my design goals in the monoblock amps you like:  I wanted to see if this humble tube could play with the big boys if it were supported by a robust power supply, quality output transformers and audiophile-approved components. 

They've got distinctive tonal traits, but the two tubes are more similar than they are different.  The EL84 excels at high end detail and is very sweet in the midrange. It has good tonal balance across the audio spectrum.   The 2A3 is excellent in these areas too, and has a slight edge over the EL84 in it's ability to throw a large(r?) soundstage.  If I absolutely had to choose between the two, I would pick the 2A3 but it would be a tough choice to make. 

I'm getting to the point where I would like to build yet another pair of EL84 amps using slightly better components.  The James Audio transformers I used before are nice, but I think even better iron would raise this little tube to new levels... 

Crazy, this hobby.   

[sebrof]

Blown my cover, eh? 

My guess is they would have figured it out soon enough

I'm getting to the point where I would like to build yet another pair of EL84 amps using slightly better components.  The James Audio transformers I used before are nice, but I think even better iron would raise this little tube to new levels... 

I built my 2A3 SET with the James 6112 output transformers (looks like your EL84 amp has the 6112s or 6113s) and it sounded pretty good. A buddy of mine loaned me his pair of Electraprint transformers and it completely changed the amp for the better. I still have the Electraprints.
Big difference in price, and James makes better transformers so no knock on James products. But I agree that the OPTs can make a big difference.

[Redboy]

I built my 2A3 SET with the James 6112 output transformers (looks like your EL84 amp has the 6112s or 6113s) and it sounded pretty good. A buddy of mine loaned me his pair of Electraprint transformers and it completely changed the amp for the better. I still have the Electraprints.
Big difference in price, and James makes better transformers so no knock on James products. But I agree that the OPTs can make a big difference.

Exactly right.  And going back to what I was saying about the reputation of the EL84 as just a "good" tube - many people's assessment of it is based on their experience listening to it in an old console amp, with cheaply wound output transformers smaller than the average deck of cards.   

The James OPTs are an excellent value, but much better iron is available if you are willing to spring for it.  There's a weird little part of me that would like to build the next EL84 monos with Tango outputs, or something...

[Guy 13]

This personal taste thing is funny, isn't it?  Aesthetics are important to me and I spend too much time thinking about them - some projects stall completely because I can't find a way to make them look right...   
They can be quite similar, actually. They're both such great sounding tubes... I have a friend who is fond of saying that "you can't build a bad sounding EL84 amp".  Similarly, there's an old Sound Practices article (SP15) by Joe Roberts called "I Never Met a 2A3 Amp That I Didn't Like" (Google it - it's a fun read!). 

The two tubes have very different reputations, though.  While the 2A3 is one of the darlings of the SET world and often gets built into modern kilobuck audiophile amplifiers, the EL84 is better known for its use in grungy guitar amplifiers, consoles and push-pull tube receivers from the vintage HiFi era.  Most people haven't heard the EL84 treated properly, so that was one of my design goals in the monoblock amps you like:  I wanted to see if this humble tube could play with the big boys if it were supported by a robust power supply, quality output transformers and audiophile-approved components. 

They've got distinctive tonal traits, but the two tubes are more similar than they are different.  The EL84 excels at high end detail and is very sweet in the midrange. It has good tonal balance across the audio spectrum.   The 2A3 is excellent in these areas too, and has a slight edge over the EL84 in it's ability to throw a large(r?) soundstage.  If I absolutely had to choose between the two, I would pick the 2A3 but it would be a tough choice to make. 

I'm getting to the point where I would like to build yet another pair of EL84 amps using slightly better components.  The James Audio transformers I used before are nice, but I think even better iron would raise this little tube to new levels... 

Crazy, this hobby.   

Hi Redboy.
Thanks for taking the time to share with me your experience.
I do have 48 years of audio experience,
but it's always good to hear a different view.
I am not a DIYer and if I had the money (Which I don't have)
I would buy a Decware SE34I.4
or a Wright Audio Lolita (Both use el34)
or a Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3.
But I am dreaming now...

Guy 13
 

[FullRangeMan]

Hi Redboy.
Thanks for taking the time to share with me your experience.
I do have 48 years of audio experience,
but it's always good to hear a different view.
I am not a DIYer and if I had the money (Which I don't have)
I would buy a Decware SE34I.4
or a Wright Audio Lolita (Both use el34)
or a Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3.
But I am dreaming now...

Guy 13

Obviusly you will choose the Lolita w/EL34 and 8W.
2A3 w/ 2W are a bit useless, hard to find a speaker sensitive enough to match it.

Now w/the departure of Tango, James and Hashimoto are favored by builders.

[Guy 13]

Obviusly you will choose the Lolita w/EL34 and 8W.
2A3 w/ 2W are a bit useless, hard to find a speaker sensitive enough to match it.

Now w/the departure of Tango, James and Hashimoto are favored by builders.

Hi FullRangeMan.
With the Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 you get 3.5 wpc.
Any extended range driver with 93dB + can be driven by 2 wpc amplifier like my Decware SE84C+
to satisfying level.

Guy 13

[FullRangeMan]

Hi FullRangeMan.
With the Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3 you get 3.5 wpc.
Any extended range driver with 93dB + can be driven by 2 wpc amplifier like my Decware SE84C+
to satisfying level.

Guy 13

At this point of low power one may even no need volume pot with the right sensitivity SPL for changing the sound intensity.
It wil run direct, constant volume, no changes.
A feature not negligible.

[Redboy]

At this point of low power one may even no need volume pot with the right sensitivity SPL for changing the sound intensity.
It wil run direct, constant volume, no changes.
A feature not negligible.

That's a strange comment: I don't know anyone who does that.  My speakers are about 94 dB and my amps push less than a watt.  Sure, I could run them without an attenuator without risk of damage to the drivers, but  it'd be obnoxiously loud for my taste.  Most of my listening is done at half volume or so....