Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11

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mcgsxr

Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« on: 16 Dec 2014, 01:38 pm »
Figured I would start a new thread now that mine has arrived.

Showed up quickly from Calgary via Purolator, and was well packed as I had expected.

The comprehensive cabling included is a nice touch, even if it is of standard quality.

I pulled the stock tube, and installed a Genalex Gold Lion 6922 from Jim McShane (dear god that guy packs a tube like Godzilla is going to munch on the box during transit!).

Fired it up last night and have it breaking in now.

In time I will bake off the built in DAC against the other affordable DAC's I have lying around - Audioquest Dragonfly V1, and HRT Music Streamer II.
« Last Edit: 17 Dec 2014, 07:08 pm by mcgsxr »

ASCTLC

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #1 on: 17 Dec 2014, 03:07 pm »
I look forward to hearing what you have to say about that Mark.  I'm finding comparisons to cheaper DACs like you have helpful.

Andy

eclein

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #2 on: 17 Dec 2014, 05:17 pm »
I look forward to what you think also bud!

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #3 on: 17 Dec 2014, 07:10 pm »
Have about 40 hours of continuous run in on the unit and the tube so far.

The times I have been able to sit down and listen, I have been happy.  I was up late last night, so that bodes well.

Certainly it makes my best recoroded music sound excellent.  I will continue to be patient, and start working on a list of songs to use (of varying quality) to bake off the usb DAC section. 

No issues so far with it running.  Nice build quality when you consider what it cost for sure.  I was expecting it to be lighter and flimsier, but it is fine.

The Gold Lion tube was a snug fit, so I doubt I will do any rolling anytime soon.  It is reputed to be a very good tube for this unit, from what I have researched.

I will also have to keep the comparisons to 16/44.1 or 24/96 since the built in DAC does not do 24/88.1 or 24/192 (via the usb input).

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #4 on: 22 Dec 2014, 03:04 pm »
Teaser posted in the Grant vs Schiit thread here in the C&C circle.

I am still waiting to bake off the other DAC`s I have before posting a full review here in this thread.

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #5 on: 22 Dec 2014, 06:33 pm »
To get the basics covered, the following is an outline of my room, and the largely mid fi gear I use currently.

•   Yamaha RX-797 receiver.  I use the cd direct input which kills the display, takes all the tone controls out of the signal etc.
•   Totem Model 1 biwire speakers.  Dayton 24 inch stands filled with kitty litter.
•   Yamaha SW100 subwoofer.  Old, but does the trick for ~60Hz and down.  Model 1’s run full range.
•   Vortexbox VAMP player.  A Pogoplug hacked with Linux running Logitech s/w.
•   Dedicated netbook running Logitech Media Server, 2TB hard drive with FLAC files.
•   IC’s are DIY shielded with Belden wire.
•   Speaker wires are Monoprice CL2 4x14g wired as 2x11g

Room is an untreated basement space.  Roughly 20x25x7.25 (OK, it is actually 25x25 but with a 5x8 bathroom in one corner, and stairs jutting into another corner on the same side I figure it plays out as approx. 20 down that wall).  Furnished as a family room with a pool table at the end opposite the system.  Floors are wall to wall berber over subfloor (5/8 T&G plywood over Delta MS).

My system is located in one “corner” of the room.  Basically the pool table and the stairs take up the “back” of the room.  In one other corner is the 5x8 bathroom.  In the last “corner” is my HT and 2 channel setup.  The room shares the 2 channel and HT gear, but is not connected together. 

The entire room is open, so although I listen over in that one area, there are no walls between it and the other areas in the room.  I currently have the speakers 15 inches off the wall ( wall to rear of speaker cabinet), and 6 feet apart.  I listen 7 feet from then plane of the front of the speakers. 

Due to the layout, there is no wall on the left side of the space, but the right speaker is located 32 inches from the wall on the right.  I toss fleece blankets on both couch and loveseat, and 60 inch plasma for serious listening.

Yes, I take significant abuse from my family for this odd need to cover the plasma when I listen to music, but I can survive it!

The Grant TubeDAC-11 arrived in a nicely packed box, and included a variety of cables.  Nice touch for sure.  All the other reviews I have read comment on the build quality.  I expected it to be lighter or less solid, but it is nicely built.  The case was easy to open, and the tube was simple to roll.  I did find that the Gold Lion tube took some effort to fully seat, but once in there you know it is not going anywhere.

After allowing the Grant DAC to break in 24/7 for 6 days, I figured it had stabilized in terms of changes.

I started out with a 21 song rotation of 16/44.1 FLAC.

This list comprises some of my favorite tunes, and some that are very well recorded.  A few might qualify as audiophile fav’s, and a few might raise a few eyebrows!  All were chosen as I am familiar with them, and happen to like hearing them so listening to them all over a couple of days would not drive me nuts.

1.   Duke Ellington – Blues in Orbit – Pie Eye’s Blues
2.   Everything but the Girl – Best of – Apron Strings
3.   Massive Attack – Protection – Better Things featuring Tracey Thorne
4.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – The Raven
5.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – Spanish Harlem
6.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – You got me
7.   Jerry Mulligan with Jane Duboc – Jazz Showcase – Paraiso
8.   Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra with Winton Marsalis – Plays the Music of Duke Ellington – Jump for Joy
9.   Ali Farke Toure – The Source – Cinquante Six
10.   Eva Cassidy – Live at Blues Alley – Stormy Monday
11.   Alison Krauss and Union Station – Lonely runs both ways – Gravity
12.   Cowboy Junkies – Trinity Sessions – Blue Moon Revisited (Song for Elvis)
13.   Fleet Foxes – Fleet Foxes – Oliver James
14.   John Mayer – Continuum – Gravity
15.   54-40 – Radio Love Songs The Singles Collection – Ocean Pearl
16.   Beastie Boys – Ill Communication – Get it Together
17.   Cracker – Kerosene Hat – Take me down to the Infirmary
18.   Groove Armada – Goodbye Country (Hello Nightclub) – Superstylin
19.   Jack Johnson – Brushfire Fairytales – F stop blues
20.   Cheryl Crow – KBCO Disc 1 – Favorite Mistake
21.   Eva Cassidy – Songbird – Fields of Gold

I find that the Grant DAC brings some tube mellowness and bloom, with a sense of reduced transients, but not necessarily in a bad way.  The change in transients is felt to me most with sax, where the initial bite no longer borders on harsh at certain volumes.

The tube mellowness allowed me to more fully enjoy “Stormy Monday”.  This song starts out quietly, and builds well to a big section in the middle where it has full participation on the part of many, and can be tough to unravel.  With solid state DAC’s, I often have to reduce the volume during this peak, as the top end gets too harsh for me.  Not so with the TubeDAC-11.  I can let the “eagle fly on Friday” right through the piece.  Cymbals are nicely differentiated when different ones are struck, and the tone of the plucked guitar just sounds right.

One thing that the TubeDAC gets right is the tone of acoustic guitar.  Songs that have 2 or more acoustics really bring this DAC to life.  Cheryl Crow – Favorite Mistake stands out really well for this.  So does Rebecca Pidgeon’s “You got me”.  More great fun with “I thought it would be easier” by Shelby Lynn.  You can pick any of the guitar parts and follow them and their interplay throughout.  The slap and pluck of the playing is front and center.  The pick across the strings reaches out.

All these songs allow the music to flow out of the speakers as though they were not there, and bring the tone of good guitar right to you.  Lots to love here with the tubeDAC.

On “Gravity” by Union Station with Alison Krauss, it is the air and decay of the instruments that catches my attention.  The cymbals decay beautifully, and the sound of the fingers on strings is clearly heard, but does not draw undue attention.  Her voice just hangs in the air.  Good recordings like this are always good, but tubes bring something extra.  MOAR my brother would say.

Rebecca Pidgeon’s “The Raven” album is what got me into hifi to begin with.  I had been into surround sound (gotta love Dolby in the mid 90’s!) when I wandered into my first real audio store in the University town I lived in during school.  I spent most of my time wandering around the lower budget rooms, but there was this sound coming out of a room in the back that drew me.  A siren song indeed.  In that room back there was a full sized set of Magnepans (no idea which), running VTL tube mono’s and a Micromega Stage 3 cd player.  I was staggered by the realism.  I was smitten.  I bought the cd, it was all I could afford from that room!  That store is where I bought the Totem Rokk and Sugden integrated that put me on the path I am on now.

SO, returning to that cd year after year, I still love just about every track, but 3 stand out for me.  I often hear “Spanish Harlem” at audio stores or shows, or gatherings and I still enjoy it.  Both my daughters sing along with it when I play it at home, it gets that kind of rotation. 

Through the Grant DAC it fills the air nicely, and smoothly.  The initial bass line never wavers, and most of the detail is available.  I find that some is lost though.  The Dragonfly allows for more of the pick on the guitar strings as an example.  The HRT allows for a little more body on the instruments.  The Grant brings her voice more to the fore.  That just might serve as a summary for the 3 DACs to be honest.



Audioquest Dragonfly V1 – detail oriented, and hifi pleasing.
HRT Music Streamer II – brings body to instruments, was my reference for 2+ years.
Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 – a black background, great tone, a taste of tube bloom, and leatherman tool flexibility on a budget.

So, is the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC the perfect DAC?  No, not even close.  Can I think of better value around $450 new, including a good tube rolled into the mix?  Nope.  Especially considering it can be a preamp, and a headphone amp in the future as my needs change.



mresseguie

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #6 on: 22 Dec 2014, 06:46 pm »
Thanks for sharing this.  Someday I'll be ready to upgrade my DAC.  Nice to know about different DACs.

brother love

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #7 on: 22 Dec 2014, 07:11 pm »
Nice review mcgsxr !  The Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 truly is a "Swiss army knife" component & a great bang for the buck.  Tube rolling adventures can be done cheaper as well with only one 6922/6DJ8/E88CC tube.   I currently enjoy an Amperex 6922 USA gold pin in my TD-11. Check out the tube spreadsheet I compiled with the help of many on audiokarma.org (fyi ... must sign in to see):  http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=439184

cody69

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #8 on: 22 Dec 2014, 09:47 pm »
Quote
Figured I would start a new thread now that mine has arrived.

Informative review, nicely done. Very interesting for me as I am also running an Audioquest Dragonfly and the HRT Music Streamer II in systems in my house. I've been interested in the Grant since it was first introduced.

Did you buy the Grant to replace one of the other units in your system, or is it targeted for a new system

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #9 on: 22 Dec 2014, 10:56 pm »
Thanks for the comments guys.

I have owned the HRT the longest.  The AQ I purchased for kicks in the past 8 weeks. 

I am looking to replace my DAC, and was pining for tubes having run single ended pentode el84's in the past.

The Grant will go in the main system, we will see if the HRT through the tube outputs of the Grant makes me happier than just the Grant itself.

I will move the Dragonfly along.  I don't run a 2nd system, so 2 DAC's is enough.

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #10 on: 24 Dec 2014, 07:26 pm »
Having read that list of recommended tubes over and over again on AK, I ordered a quad of the Voskhod's.

Couldn't hurt I figure!  If I love them, I have a supply for a long time.  If I find the Genalex better, well I am only out $20 for a little fun tube rolling.

Captainhemo

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #11 on: 24 Jan 2015, 03:02 am »
hey Mark,  nice  review of the TD 11  :thumb:
 A little late  to the thread but here are a few  comments  on my experience with  the TD11.
I've had mine for about 1.5 years now  and haven't had any issues.  It really  does provide great  bang for buck , I feel  it's performance far exceeds  it's cost.  I've uised it both as a  stand alone DAC as well as a pre/DAC bypassing the front end of my Jolida, it works well   both ways, nice to have options and   one does have them with the TD 11.

I quite liked the Voskhod 6N23P at first, so much so that I ordered a few extras too. But after  a  while   I started to notice it wasn't quite as musical as the  Amperex (Holland) 6DJ8 BB I had been using.   It was definitely more detailed / analitical ,  but  I found it gave something up  that I was missing. I'm  back with the Amperex now (well will be soon as I currently hav a friends DAC in the system that I'm trying out) and have an  early Mullard A-frame 6DJ8 on the way to try. 

Not sure if you tried a different  power cable with your (maybe I mised that in your  posts) but if not,  I'd say    give  something a try,  it definitely doesn't hurt  !!

Enjoy   !!

-jay
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2015, 05:24 pm by Captainhemo »

eclein

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #12 on: 5 Feb 2015, 02:00 pm »
I still have my Grant DAC....a truly versatile piece. I'm using a AUNE solid state one now but the Grant will be a backup or a starter for my kids systems. I also have a TADAC I got from ajzepp...by the way mcgsxr the Grant Dacs always have a snug tube fit. The first time you pull on is scary but they loosen over time......enjoy!!!!

Telepathic

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #13 on: 18 Feb 2015, 01:15 am »
Hello everybody. New here but have a question on the Tubedac-11 (which I have and enjoy) compared to some other tube dacs. Anyone had the chance to hear the Havana or Eastern Electric Minimax or Jolida Glass FX? Just wondering if these dacs are in a completely different sonic league than the Tubedac-11 considering they certainly are price wise.

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #14 on: 27 Feb 2015, 03:36 pm »
I have not heard the different DAC's you reference, but I remember that the EE was very popular a number of years ago.  Used, they still fetch $600-$800 up here in Canada.

I liked the DAC-11 enough to have an old audio friend to peek through it and do some mods.

Given the $ invested, I will respectfully move to a differrent thread to discuss the impacts of those mods once I burn it in and get a feel for it in its current form.

ajzepp

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb 2015, 11:36 pm »
I'm a big fan of Grant Fidelity.

I have their tube bufffer that I picked up a few years ago. It's a re-badged Yaqin piece and a solid performer.

Ed, I'm glad to know you still have Paul's TADAC that I sold you...I really miss that guy :(

mick wolfe

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Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #16 on: 28 Feb 2015, 12:09 am »
I still have my Grant DAC....a truly versatile piece. I'm using a AUNE solid state one now but the Grant will be a backup or a starter for my kids systems. I also have a TADAC I got from ajzepp...by the way mcgsxr the Grant Dacs always have a snug tube fit. The first time you pull on is scary but they loosen over time......enjoy!!!!

It's been awhile, but as I remember, I put a claw grip on the little circuit board to which the tube socket is mounted. Otherwise you'd probably be inviting disaster.

geowak

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #17 on: 28 Feb 2015, 03:28 am »
To get the basics covered, the following is an outline of my room, and the largely mid fi gear I use currently.

•   Yamaha RX-797 receiver.  I use the cd direct input which kills the display, takes all the tone controls out of the signal etc.
•   Totem Model 1 biwire speakers.  Dayton 24 inch stands filled with kitty litter.
•   Yamaha SW100 subwoofer.  Old, but does the trick for ~60Hz and down.  Model 1’s run full range.
•   Vortexbox VAMP player.  A Pogoplug hacked with Linux running Logitech s/w.
•   Dedicated netbook running Logitech Media Server, 2TB hard drive with FLAC files.
•   IC’s are DIY shielded with Belden wire.
•   Speaker wires are Monoprice CL2 4x14g wired as 2x11g

Room is an untreated basement space.  Roughly 20x25x7.25 (OK, it is actually 25x25 but with a 5x8 bathroom in one corner, and stairs jutting into another corner on the same side I figure it plays out as approx. 20 down that wall).  Furnished as a family room with a pool table at the end opposite the system.  Floors are wall to wall berber over subfloor (5/8 T&G plywood over Delta MS).

My system is located in one “corner” of the room.  Basically the pool table and the stairs take up the “back” of the room.  In one other corner is the 5x8 bathroom.  In the last “corner” is my HT and 2 channel setup.  The room shares the 2 channel and HT gear, but is not connected together. 

The entire room is open, so although I listen over in that one area, there are no walls between it and the other areas in the room.  I currently have the speakers 15 inches off the wall ( wall to rear of speaker cabinet), and 6 feet apart.  I listen 7 feet from then plane of the front of the speakers. 

Due to the layout, there is no wall on the left side of the space, but the right speaker is located 32 inches from the wall on the right.  I toss fleece blankets on both couch and loveseat, and 60 inch plasma for serious listening.

Yes, I take significant abuse from my family for this odd need to cover the plasma when I listen to music, but I can survive it!

The Grant TubeDAC-11 arrived in a nicely packed box, and included a variety of cables.  Nice touch for sure.  All the other reviews I have read comment on the build quality.  I expected it to be lighter or less solid, but it is nicely built.  The case was easy to open, and the tube was simple to roll.  I did find that the Gold Lion tube took some effort to fully seat, but once in there you know it is not going anywhere.

After allowing the Grant DAC to break in 24/7 for 6 days, I figured it had stabilized in terms of changes.

I started out with a 21 song rotation of 16/44.1 FLAC.

This list comprises some of my favorite tunes, and some that are very well recorded.  A few might qualify as audiophile fav’s, and a few might raise a few eyebrows!  All were chosen as I am familiar with them, and happen to like hearing them so listening to them all over a couple of days would not drive me nuts.

1.   Duke Ellington – Blues in Orbit – Pie Eye’s Blues
2.   Everything but the Girl – Best of – Apron Strings
3.   Massive Attack – Protection – Better Things featuring Tracey Thorne
4.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – The Raven
5.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – Spanish Harlem
6.   Rebecca Pidgeon – The Raven – You got me
7.   Jerry Mulligan with Jane Duboc – Jazz Showcase – Paraiso
8.   Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra with Winton Marsalis – Plays the Music of Duke Ellington – Jump for Joy
9.   Ali Farke Toure – The Source – Cinquante Six
10.   Eva Cassidy – Live at Blues Alley – Stormy Monday
11.   Alison Krauss and Union Station – Lonely runs both ways – Gravity
12.   Cowboy Junkies – Trinity Sessions – Blue Moon Revisited (Song for Elvis)
13.   Fleet Foxes – Fleet Foxes – Oliver James
14.   John Mayer – Continuum – Gravity
15.   54-40 – Radio Love Songs The Singles Collection – Ocean Pearl
16.   Beastie Boys – Ill Communication – Get it Together
17.   Cracker – Kerosene Hat – Take me down to the Infirmary
18.   Groove Armada – Goodbye Country (Hello Nightclub) – Superstylin
19.   Jack Johnson – Brushfire Fairytales – F stop blues
20.   Cheryl Crow – KBCO Disc 1 – Favorite Mistake
21.   Eva Cassidy – Songbird – Fields of Gold

I find that the Grant DAC brings some tube mellowness and bloom, with a sense of reduced transients, but not necessarily in a bad way.  The change in transients is felt to me most with sax, where the initial bite no longer borders on harsh at certain volumes.

The tube mellowness allowed me to more fully enjoy “Stormy Monday”.  This song starts out quietly, and builds well to a big section in the middle where it has full participation on the part of many, and can be tough to unravel.  With solid state DAC’s, I often have to reduce the volume during this peak, as the top end gets too harsh for me.  Not so with the TubeDAC-11.  I can let the “eagle fly on Friday” right through the piece.  Cymbals are nicely differentiated when different ones are struck, and the tone of the plucked guitar just sounds right.

One thing that the TubeDAC gets right is the tone of acoustic guitar.  Songs that have 2 or more acoustics really bring this DAC to life.  Cheryl Crow – Favorite Mistake stands out really well for this.  So does Rebecca Pidgeon’s “You got me”.  More great fun with “I thought it would be easier” by Shelby Lynn.  You can pick any of the guitar parts and follow them and their interplay throughout.  The slap and pluck of the playing is front and center.  The pick across the strings reaches out.

All these songs allow the music to flow out of the speakers as though they were not there, and bring the tone of good guitar right to you.  Lots to love here with the tubeDAC.

On “Gravity” by Union Station with Alison Krauss, it is the air and decay of the instruments that catches my attention.  The cymbals decay beautifully, and the sound of the fingers on strings is clearly heard, but does not draw undue attention.  Her voice just hangs in the air.  Good recordings like this are always good, but tubes bring something extra.  MOAR my brother would say.

Rebecca Pidgeon’s “The Raven” album is what got me into hifi to begin with.  I had been into surround sound (gotta love Dolby in the mid 90’s!) when I wandered into my first real audio store in the University town I lived in during school.  I spent most of my time wandering around the lower budget rooms, but there was this sound coming out of a room in the back that drew me.  A siren song indeed.  In that room back there was a full sized set of Magnepans (no idea which), running VTL tube mono’s and a Micromega Stage 3 cd player.  I was staggered by the realism.  I was smitten.  I bought the cd, it was all I could afford from that room!  That store is where I bought the Totem Rokk and Sugden integrated that put me on the path I am on now.

SO, returning to that cd year after year, I still love just about every track, but 3 stand out for me.  I often hear “Spanish Harlem” at audio stores or shows, or gatherings and I still enjoy it.  Both my daughters sing along with it when I play it at home, it gets that kind of rotation. 

Through the Grant DAC it fills the air nicely, and smoothly.  The initial bass line never wavers, and most of the detail is available.  I find that some is lost though.  The Dragonfly allows for more of the pick on the guitar strings as an example.  The HRT allows for a little more body on the instruments.  The Grant brings her voice more to the fore.  That just might serve as a summary for the 3 DACs to be honest.



Audioquest Dragonfly V1 – detail oriented, and hifi pleasing.
HRT Music Streamer II – brings body to instruments, was my reference for 2+ years.
Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 – a black background, great tone, a taste of tube bloom, and leatherman tool flexibility on a budget.

So, is the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC the perfect DAC?  No, not even close.  Can I think of better value around $450 new, including a good tube rolled into the mix?  Nope.  Especially considering it can be a preamp, and a headphone amp in the future as my needs change.

Nice set list of music. Eva Cassidy is at the top of my list... But your music taste matches mine very well. Listening with a Benchmark DAC or a Schiit Bifrost Uber DAC on my end.
BTW thinking hard about dropping a dime on the Sonos Connect streamer and getting the Tidal lossless streaming.

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #18 on: 8 Mar 2015, 04:18 pm »
I have not  yet made any determination about streaming music vs ownership.  At present I have a lot of tunes here captive to make me happy!

I have posted my impressions of the modded Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 in the Critics Circle - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=133008.new#new

mcgsxr

Re: Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11
« Reply #19 on: 23 Oct 2015, 12:10 pm »
Question for the other GF users.

I know that the GF does not play 24/88.2 via USB input.  Has anyone tried feeding it 24/88.2 via the coax input?

I am not sure if that would work.  If it would, I would consider a Hiface2 usb-coax converter.

Thanks,