AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Cheap and Cheerful HiFi => Topic started by: eclein on 1 Dec 2011, 06:43 pm
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Grant Fidelity came out with two new DACs, the DAC-11 for like $325 and a newer model based on the ESS Sabre Chip for $699....anybody hear either one or heard anything????
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Not more than I read on Grant Fidelity's forum over on AK. I do like the look of the Tube DAC-11, especially for the price. :thumb:
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Here is a review of the Tube DAC 11.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue58/tubedac11.htm
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8)
Listening to the Tube DAC-11 now.
Using the DAC out (bypassing tube) to my Sensation 901 with Dodd buffer is very very punchy with much clarity but what is more interesting is the tube out jacks to my Schit Asgard head amp and Hifiman planar cans.!
Initial reaction is that this is a sleeper that is going to get some really good press.
Allison Krauss is vibrant and in the room with me right now.
Too early to tell but this puppy is punching way above its weight class.
The new GF Sabre DAC sounds very interesting as does their tube output CD player.
Tom
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Has any one bought the new Grant Fidelity DAC-11?
http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html
I think that I may be getting one for a christmas present for my secondary system- Class D audio 254 amp, MMG speakers. I will be using it as a DAC and preamp. I was just curious as to what people think about it.
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Has any one bought the new Grant Fidelity DAC-11?
http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Grant-Fidelity-TubeDAC-11-D-A-Converter.html
I think that I may be getting one for a christmas present for my secondary system- Class D audio 254 amp, MMG speakers. I will be using it as a DAC and preamp. I was just curious as to what people think about it.
Uhmmm, there's another thread on this very product a couple a threads below yours, rather than duplicate posts I'll merge yours with theirs. Fair enough?
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Tom
Did you try your headphones direct to the tube RCA outs?
Ryan
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8)
Listening to the Tube DAC-11 now.
Using the DAC out (bypassing tube) to my Sensation 901 with Dodd buffer is very very punchy with much clarity but what is more interesting is the tube out jacks to my Schit Asgard head amp and Hifiman planar cans.!
Initial reaction is that this is a sleeper that is going to get some really good press.
Allison Krauss is vibrant and in the room with me right now.
Too early to tell but this puppy is punching way above its weight class.
The new GF Sabre DAC sounds very interesting as does their tube output CD player.
Tom
How do you think it ranks against some of the other dacs you've heard?
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I received my DAC-11 today and after just 6 hours of burn in I am very pleasantly surprised. I am using it in a secondary system with my MMG speakers, an old panasonic RP56 DVD player as a transport and an old JVC VBK8000 AVR. The sound from the DAC out which is solid state is good, but the unit really shines as a DAC from the tube ouput. Unfortunately it does not bypass the volume control as in the Maverick TubeMagic D1 which the DAC-11 clearly out performs.
The sound is very smooth without any digital edge that I can tell. Bass is tight and deep, treble has good resolution but I am being limited here by the JVC AVR. The sound leans a bit on the warmer side and there is good depth, air and transparency.
Tomorrow I will be swapping out the JVC for a Class D Audio CDA-254 amp and will report on the sound. Eventually I will give it a try in my main system with my Van Alstine Hybrid Ultra tube Preamp and DAC along with my Parasound Halo A21 amp and Magnepan QR1.6's and I will give another review.
As far as the build quality, it is very good for the price and better than the Maverick. I think for the money, the DAC-11 will be hard to beat.
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Thanks for asking. I seldom post my modest opinions unless specifically requested to do so.
RCA outs to headphones. :wink:
Yup.. much preferred the tube output to my Schit Asgard. By big margin.
Cans = HE-4 and HE-6.
Compared to other DACS I have owned :wink:
I really like it. It reminds me of my Eastern Electric original DAC a lot.
Having multiple inputs and outputs puts the convenience factor through the roof for me.
And since I am feeding the DAC out to a Dodd tube buffered Sensation the warmth of the GF-11 presentation is considerable and very favorable to me as well as allowing me to use the tube output to my Asgard..
OK.. What have I compared to direct DAC to DAC? :)
Maverick D2.. I much prefer the fuller sound of the GF-11 over the lean D2.
Emotiva XDA-1.. much prefer the warmth of the GF-11 over the Emotiva which is a nice DAC but a bit to musical for me.
Schit Bifrost (non direct) Bifrost is a really good DAC but my slight preference for the less digital character of the GF-11 along with the multiple input/output convenience made it a really nice fit for me in my system.
Merry Christmas.
Tom
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Thanks Tom.....something else for me to save up for. :)
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Thanks for asking. I seldom post my modest opinions unless specifically requested to do so.
RCA outs to headphones. :wink:
Yup.. much preferred the tube output to my Schit Asgard. By big margin.
Cans = HE-4 and HE-6.
Compared to other DACS I have owned :wink:
I really like it. It reminds me of my Eastern Electric original DAC a lot.
Having multiple inputs and outputs puts the convenience factor through the roof for me.
And since I am feeding the DAC out to a Dodd tube buffered Sensation the warmth of the GF-11 presentation is considerable and very favorable to me as well as allowing me to use the tube output to my Asgard..
OK.. What have I compared to direct DAC to DAC? :)
Maverick D2.. I much prefer the fuller sound of the GF-11 over the lean D2.
Emotiva XDA-1.. much prefer the warmth of the GF-11 over the Emotiva which is a nice DAC but a bit to musical for me.
Schit Bifrost (non direct) Bifrost is a really good DAC but my slight preference for the less digital character of the GF-11 along with the multiple input/output convenience made it a really nice fit for me in my system.
Merry Christmas.
Tom
While it looks like you didn't directly compare the GF-11 to the Eastern Electric, would you mind elaborating on some of the similarities and differences if possible? Thanks.
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I had an EE DAC for several months and sold it as it was no better than my Scott Endler modded Behringer DEQ2496 (which BTW you can buy/mod for the price of the EE DAC gaining EQ but losing volume control). OTOH upgrading Channel Island Audio monoblocks (from VMB-1 to D-100) made a noticable improvement (more resolution/bass grip).
But I'll fully admit to being a "speaker guy".
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8)
So I guess I like it better.
Well the Grant Fidelity DAC-11 became a part of my photo studio system this week. Temporarily it is taking on the double duty of pre amp as well till Virtue gets my Sensation 901 upgraded with Clarity caps.
Already rolled several tubes through it and it rolls well!
Kinda looks like it is one of the little brothers! :P
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=55664)
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Orange is great!!!!
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What's the difference between line-out, tube out and DAC out? I don't see it mentioned how to use it in the manual.
thanks.
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Tube pre-out uses the Tube output for that nice tube sound
Line out is a solid state output no tube in the mix
**Both of the above are governed by the volume pot-so its in pre-amp mode**
DAC out is a line level output-No Volume control its full bore--if you use it you need a pre-amp after or BOOM!!!
WARNING^^^ I'm almost -say98%- certain this is correct but I may have the DAC out and Line Out mixed up as to volume knobs influence...call Grant to make sure and I'll hunt down anything I can find to verify this...OK...prroceed with caution...*****
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I verified I am correct with this statement off the website in the description''''
^^^"DAC direct output - by pass tube buffer stage and volume control for you to match the DAC with other high end amplification (amp must have its own volume control as DAC direct output pass signal at full volume)" :thumb: :thumb:
I am now 100% sure I am correct with my above description :thumb:
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Thanks Eclein. I have Integerated Amp Plinius 9200. So i guess i using DAC out is best option since volume will be controlled by Plinius itself.
I also see this site has Sabre D18-Reference and its price is way affordable than Wyred W4S DAC-2.
thanks.
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I also see this site has Sabre D18-Reference and its price is way affordable than Wyred W4S DAC-2.
When comparing (features anyway), you should probably be comparing the Yulong D-18 with the Wyred4Sound DAC-1 ($999), while noting that the DAC-1 has some features the D-18 does not have: a 24/96 asynchronous USB input, an LCD display for sample rate, a 3 year warranty and is made in USA.
The Wyred4Sound DAC-2 ($1499) adds 24/192 asynchronous USB input, AES/EBU and I2S inputs, remote control, HT Bypass inputs selectable via DC trigger and upgraded power supply filter capacitance.
Steve
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i see. Both D-18 and DAC-1 are out of my reach.
In compare to Emotiva XDA-1, what's your opinion?
thanks.
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When comparing (features anyway), you should probably be comparing the Yulong D-18 with the Wyred4Sound DAC-1 ($999), while noting that the DAC-1 has some features the D-18 does not have: a 24/96 asynchronous USB input, an LCD display for sample rate, a 3 year warranty and is made in USA.
The Wyred4Sound DAC-2 ($1499) adds 24/192 asynchronous USB input, AES/EBU and I2S inputs, remote control, HT Bypass inputs selectable via DC trigger and upgraded power supply filter capacitance.
Steve
i see. Both D-18 and DAC-1 are out of my reach.
In compare to Emotiva XDA-1, what's your opinion?
thanks.
And the W4S DACs are way outside of the province of Cheap and Cheerful as well. I have not heard the Emotiva DAC, but the general consensus online is pretty consistent, nothing earthshaking, but worth the money, especially at the current discounted price. They will be having a new model coming out soon.
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Thanks for all the great feedback so far! I just ordered this "swiss army knife" TubeDAC-11 w/ a silver faceplate. Will report back after receipt & burn-in ...
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Received a black GF dac-11 yesterday, so far so good. I always plug the hagerman Frybaby into all new equipment, cables, etc, and didn't get to hear the dac-11 right out of the box. Its been cooking about 20 hrs now & I can't complain about sound quality, dynamics, imaging or anything...especially for $325 shipped.
It might not be able to go head to head with my Tranquility + Warpspeed LDR combo, but as a backup component & 2nd dac for non-critical sources (cable tv, ps3, etc) i couldn't be happier.
Totally unexpected, but yesterday i missed a call from rachel at GF. I've never ordered from them, but she wanted to be sure it was delivered, as DHL had reported delivery to them.
Mine arrived set to 220V, and luckily GF sends instructions. #1 on the list is to be certain its set to 110V. I luv instructions! so rare in this hobby. the dac also comes with numerous cords & allen wrench.
matt
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Have had the TubeDAC-11 for about a week now. Silver faceplate. Still breaking in I suppose but I am enjoying it so far as a headphone amp (using the RCA Tube Out converted to a headphone jack thanks to some Radio Shack RCA to headphone cables and a female to female headphone coupler). Plan to use the TubeDac-11 with my Class D Audio 250W DIY amp once it is assembled. Will report my findings after more time and more power.
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Received my silver faceplate TubeDAC-11 yesterday evening 4 business days after placing order ... from Hong Kong! (website says 5-7 business days). Only problem is my longer length USB cable ordered from Amazon the same day hasn't arrived yet. :lol:
I connected DAC-11 to Virtue Audio Sensation amp & Oppo 83SE & utilized tube out of DAC-11 while watching a DVD last night. Burn-in has begun! I'll report back after a few days run time & USB cable is hooked-up to iMac for auditioning. Oh, pics to follow as well. :icon_twisted:
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Silver faceplate Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11. Cute little bugger ...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57340)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=57339)
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WFS is coming out with a mini dac that uses the ESS Sabre chip soon. Haven't seen any reviews but it's on their website. They also have a really nice looking intesgrated with a built in DAC that looks interesting. Too many choices!
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Sadly I am a one piece of equipment at a time kind of a guy due to my budget. I own a Cambridge DAC Magic and it moves between three stereo systems (office, HT and basement).
I am very happy with it, but find all my systems sound bright and I am not that huge of a lover of bright sounding systems. Probably a cause of the relatively inexpensive equipment I own.
I really want to hear the tube sound in my own home and this seems the most flexible and inexpensive way to try it. I have to sell my DAC Magic to buy the Grant.
Only other alternative right now are some tube buffers I have seen on ebay as DIY and built for $65 to $200.
Any thoughts on a tube buffer with my DAC Magic versus the Grant DAC-11?
TIA,
Ray
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Any thoughts on a tube buffer with my DAC Magic versus the Grant DAC-11?
One thought is that the DacMagic sells for $429 new ($599 for the DacMagic Plus), so it is probably not too hard to sell for $295, and the GF TubeDAC-11 can be bought for $325.
Unless you want an extra box with an extra pair of antennae interconnects.
Steve
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Steve,
I worry about selling a $429 proven DAC for a less expensive unit, but what is price anyways. Nice that I can sell my DAC Magic for the price of a new Grant though. Problem is if my DAC Magic isnt as bright sounding as I think it is then what a waste!
Ray
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Here is a buffer that might make more sense than selling a perfectly good DAC for somethng i cannot demo. Musical Fidelity X-10d . But I dont see it on their website anymore.
Any thoughts?
http://www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/873/index.html
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raysracing,
If you havent spent too much $ on this hobby yet, i'd recommend treating a room with acoustic treatments before the gear switching merry-go-round gets you depressed.
I own mainly mid-fi gear, and its never bright...but my room is. Cheaper gear is often truncated, or lacking in dynamics & bandwidth.
I'd look elsewhere to fix the bright issue is all i'm saying, that way you can appreciate & take full advantage of better gear once time, interest & $ allows it.
matt
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raysracing,
If you havent spent too much $ on this hobby yet, i'd recommend treating a room with acoustic treatments before the gear switching merry-go-round gets you depressed.
I'm sitting in an untreated listening room (only because I may move soon), but I've seen this advice over and over again and believe it.
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Only other alternative right now are some tube buffers I have seen on ebay as DIY and built for $65 to $200.
Any thoughts on a tube buffer with my DAC Magic versus the Grant DAC-11?
I've got a tube buffer that is sitting unused since I replaced it with a more expensive unit. It does give a tube warmth to bass and mids. $75. Can't try tubes out much cheaper.
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If you havent spent too much $ on this hobby yet, i'd recommend treating a room with acoustic treatments before the gear switching merry-go-round gets you depressed.
Yes, but now I can't get the room treatment right and keep switching that around. :duh:
I'm so depressed.
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Just so happens my basement and now my HT have acoustic treatments in the form of bass traps and acoustical sheets (in basement where our band practices). YOu are right both systems sound better with the treatments. All done in the last few weeks. YOu can count on me always having the most bang for the buck things. More to come as I am getting advise (and some seconds) from audimutesoundproofing.com which is in my home town and have started to make the frames for 6 bass traps (48x24x4").
I cant finish the traps right now because I dont want to do them on my basement where the fiberglass will go everywhere (clothes, washing machines, furnace, etc.). Amazingly the cardboard shipping boxes the 703 are in, one end open in my listening room works. Makes contra bass strings ring and thump you in the chest with low power and BA A70 speakers (no sub).
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I personally haven't heard the Cambridge DAC but I have found in the past that Cambridge stereo equipment is not bright or harsh. What's your other equipment? Could be something else.
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You're on the right path. Leave no stone unturned though.
My last 2 condos have had solid concrete floors, whether bare & exposed (now) or carpeted w/pad. Both situations are toxic to the sound. If your speakers or gear is touching or spiked to concrete, the sound goes bright & thinner.
I like the spdif input on the dac-11 much more than toslink. Until this week i've only used usb for digital audio, still a virgin. the spdif might just have more gain, but it sounds way less relaxed than optical.
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Steve,
I worry about selling a $429 proven DAC for a less expensive unit, but what is price anyways. Nice that I can sell my DAC Magic for the price of a new Grant though. Problem is if my DAC Magic isnt as bright sounding as I think it is then what a waste!
Ray
From all the feedback I have read regarding the DacMagic over the past few years, it's consistently referred to as bright or as sounding 'digital' in the top end. I've always avoided it for that reason. Just google 'DacMagic bright'...
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I also found the dac magic to be too bright for my tastes. The MF v-dac is warmer and more liquid. Love it.
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I personally haven't heard the Cambridge DAC but I have found in the past that Cambridge stereo equipment is not bright or harsh. What's your other equipment? Could be something else.
I'll pile on here too charmerci, sorry. I do have a Cambridge CDP that is anything but bright, it's smooth, detailed and relaxed (and now broke for the second time). But I have a Cambridge Phono Pre that is definitively on the cool side. So they're kinda schizo on SQ, they don't always have a "house sound" that stays consistent over the years, but I'd say trending to brighter and more detailed for the past few years.
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I'll pile on here too charmerci, sorry.
:bawl:
Consider me informed!
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You're on the right path. Leave no stone unturned though.
My last 2 condos have had solid concrete floors, whether bare & exposed (now) or carpeted w/pad. Both situations are toxic to the sound. If your speakers or gear is touching or spiked to concrete, the sound goes bright & thinner.
I like the spdif input on the dac-11 much more than toslink. Until this week i've only used usb for digital audio, still a virgin. the spdif might just have more gain, but it sounds way less relaxed than optical.
My basement is a riverbed stone floor with a thin cheap carpet andy HT has bare wood floors. A carpet and a sectional sofa are soon to be installed. Both good sound absorbers
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I received my Silver faceplate TubeDAC-11 on Feb. 1 (I posted pics on pg. 2 of this thread), & now have 150 hrs. or so of burn-in time. Chassis feet rocked ever so slightly at first which was easily remedied by pressing down on the corners to level out. I set the DAC-11 on a section of marble & used 4 vibrapod isolators under the DAC-11 for stability. Selector knob aligns properly w/ source choices (there has been a few reports of quality issues re: these items mentioned).
System details-
GR Research N-3 transmission line speakers w/ upgraded crossover Sonicap capacitors & bypass caps, No-rez cabinet damping material, & Electra Cable braided speaker cables
Virtue Audio Sensation M-451 T-Class integrated amp w/ Dodd Audio tube buffer- Psvane 12AU7-T tube & SLA battery-powered supply (2-12v 5 amp) incl. trickle charger
Oppo BDP-83SE blu-ray player incl. 2 ch upgrade w/ 8 ch Sabre Ultra ES9016 DAC chip
iMac 3.06 gHz 12 gb memory & 500 gb HD; 5 meter Belkin USB cable between DAC-11 & iMac
Decibel audiophile player (also auditioned Audirvana Plus); running 24/96 hog mode (exclusive rights obtained)
iPad2 used as w/ various remote apps for Decibel player, Spotify, iTunes
I’ve done some serious listening of late w/ the TubeDAC-11 (with & without tube). I experimented primarily w/ 24/96 material, some redbook material, Spotify, etc.
The Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 w/ 6N11 stock tube sounds very nice esp. so w/ 24/96 tracks … organic, slightly warm, airy, non-fatiguing.
I always have preferred tubes either in the amp or preamp, but not both. This was also the case in this instance. Utilizing tubes in both took away some of the detail & was too laid back. Bypassing the tube buffer on the amp & using the DAC-11 tube buffer was very good, but a tad thinner. Louder vocal passages were bit more shouty than the preferred method: Amp w/ tube buffer switched on & using the excellent Psvane 12AU7-T tube (acquired from GF) & DAC-11 DAC only bypassing the DAC-11 tube buffer. It was not a night & day difference, but improvement nonetheless.
I also preferred maxing out the DAC-11 pot & solely utilizing the ALPS motorized pot of the M-451 amp.
I did move the iMac close to the 2 channel rig & connected the USB cable supplied w/ the DAC-11. Using the same 24/96 source material, I could not detect an audible difference between the shorter & longer USB cables.
Comparing Marianne Thorsen/ Trondeim Solistene Mozart Violin Concerto 24/96 track thru the DAC-11 vs. Stereo DSD same track thru the Oppo BDP-83SE was interesting. They both sounded fantastic. I couldn’t consistently pick one better than the other. The Oppo Sabre Ultra DAC is revealing, but silky. The amp tube buffer helps smooth things out & probably masks some distinctions.
I don’t have a large amount of 24/96 material yet (maybe 50 tracks all told, classical, jazz) & what I do have is lacking in the rock/alternative area that I most prefer, so I still need to audition more.
For $325, this “swiss army knife” TubeDAC-11 is a real bargain for sure!
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This DAC was on my short list, but I might be thinking twice about Grant Fidelity.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1327073472&openflup&1&4#1 (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&1327073472&openflup&1&4#1)
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Courtesy of "wisnon" from the Cheap & Cheerful "List of DAC's under $450" thread:
StereoMojo gives the Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 a "specific recommendation" ...
http://stereomojo.com/Grant%20Audio%20Tube%20DAC11.htm/GrantAudioTubeDAC11.htm
& front cover of StereoMojo New Reviews this week ... Can $325 sound this good? http://www.stereomojo.com/