[dr_skoobie]

My first stop for a C&C speaker would be Dennis Murphy's Affordable Accuracy monitor.

http://www.philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

[Letitroll98]

You're right, that's a pretty sweet deal for $210.  I haven't heard this model, but I trust Dennis to put out a quality product.

[JLM]

Last spring several of us got together and compared 8 speakers from a couple of large single driver designs down to $60/pair desktops (no serious methodology involved) and this was one of them.  Frankly it simply didn't succeed against the $300/pair competitors.  Did nothing particularly well, just sounded like $200 (or less) - flat, dull, and boring.  The owner dumped them soon afterwards.  My old 2-way stand mounted Ascend Acoustics CBM1-170s (very musical/image like crazy) and even active 2-way stand mounted JBL LSR305s (do nothing wrong and reach 41 Hz) stomped them.  From memory they bested the Pioneer BS-22 (that's not saying much IME) and not up to par with Elac B6 (although I don't care for their flavor and find them fussy to setup).

[I.Greyhound Fan]

OK, so they look nice.  But from your description it seems like they may be broke (little volume).  Manufacturers are notorious for over-rating speaker efficiency (the 87 dB/w/m figure is average), but this is beyond extreme.  Are all the settings on your gear correct/proper?  Is there some sort of protective cover on the drivers or binding posts?  Can't be very C&C if it takes a 500 watt amp to make them sing.  Weird.

Nothing wrong with the speakers.  The Pass B1 preamp has zero gain and the Dragon Fly 1.0 dac that I was using only out puts 1.2mv.  In that system even the PSB B6's (89db sensitivity) don't play too loud but the Wharfedales sound half as loud at full volume.

[opnly bafld]

Nothing wrong with the speakers.  The Pass B1 preamp has zero gain and the Dragon Fly 1.0 dac that I was using only out puts 1.2v.  In that system even the PSB B6's (89db sensitivity) don't play too loud but the Wharfedales sound half as loud at full volume.

Still doesn't add up; the Parasound only needs 1v for full output. 

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Still doesn't add up; the Parasound only needs 1v for full output. 

It's not like the W's don't put out any usable sound, its that they don't play loud with the Pass B1.  Even the PSB's  (90db sensitivity) don't play very loud with the B1 with music that was recorded at lower levels like some Blue Coast music and the album  "A Meeting By The River" from Ry Cooder and V.M. Bhatt if you are familiar with it.  With that album, even in my main system I have to turn the volume way up on my BAT preamp.  Maybe it is an issue with the B1 other than it having no gain.

I tried the Wharfedales with an old  100wpc JVC 750VBK receiver and they play plenty loud.  No problems with the speakers.  I would say that a good 50 to 100wpc is what is needed for them to sound their best with a normal preamp with gain. Probably similar to the Elac's which are rated at 87db.  AJ's recommends decent power for the Elac's to sound their best.

[fredgarvin]

The Diamonds have new iterations evry year or so it seems, and they don't all sound alike. I had the diamond 7.1 some time back and they wrte nice, pleasant sounding speakers but the tweeters were not not able to provide a wide sountstage or the palpability of better drivers. Maybe similar to the Pioneers that were so popular a couple of years ago.

[opnly bafld]

They are breaking in right now in my main rig with my Pass X250 amp and BAT preamp.  They are very inefficient and are rated at 87db sensitivity but they seem lower. I tried them in another system with a Parasound A21 amp (250 watts) and a diy Pass B1 preamp/buffer and I can't get any usable volume out of them.  They clearly like the 500wpc of my Pass amp and the dynamics of the BAT preamp.

[2bigears]

 . Phil Audio make cool looking speakers.  Would love to hear them.  The slim tower with all metal drivers and t-line cabinet looks interesting.   

[pinkfloyd4ever]

Not sure how they're regarded around here, but Best Buy has the Klipsch R-15M on sale today for $125/pair

[Tomy2Tone]

Not sure how they're regarded around here, but Best Buy has the Klipsch R-15M on sale today for $125/pair

Thanks for the heads up.

Amazon has them for this price also but temporarily out of stock. I ordered the R-14M model for $99. Always wanted to see how these do with a tube amp.

[restrav]

Last spring several of us got together and compared 8 speakers from a couple of large single driver designs down to $60/pair desktops (no serious methodology involved) and this was one of them.  Frankly it simply didn't succeed against the $300/pair competitors.  Did nothing particularly well, just sounded like $200 (or less) - flat, dull, and boring.  The owner dumped them soon afterwards.  My old 2-way stand mounted Ascend Acoustics CBM1-170s (very musical/image like crazy) and even active 2-way stand mounted JBL LSR305s (do nothing wrong and reach 41 Hz) stomped them.  From memory they bested the Pioneer BS-22 (that's not saying much IME) and not up to par with Elac B6 (although I don't care for their flavor and find them fussy to setup).

I just got a pair of 305s . hopefully they are going to be my space saving C & Cs.other than these I have never liked the sound of a pair of actives. I hated all Yamaha, Mackie, Alesis, and Behringer actives that I have ever herd.

[OzarkTom]

My buddy Rex bought the plans of the DNA horns from Decware for 20 bucks, spent 300 for the parts and says these are as good as anything he has ever owned, and Rex has owned almost everything you can imagine. For DIY fans, this just might be the greatest value out there. Rex has owned a lot oh 6-10k speaker systems. With no crossover, small footprint, and high efficiency, only 2-5 watts is all you need.

Rex says he had Home Depot cut the boards for his speakers and he is in Hawaii, so the boards could be a little cheaper in the CONUS.

For a reference, he says these easily beats the KEF LS50's that he use to own. Rex also owns a pair of Dennis Murpheys Pioneer speakers.

[JLM]

I just got a pair of 305s . hopefully they are going to be my space saving C & Cs.other than these I have never liked the sound of a pair of actives. I hated all Yamaha, Mackie, Alesis, and Behringer actives that I have ever herd.

I liked the 305's, not so with all those others that you typically find at Guitar Center.  Like you I had no use for those others.  GC does a huge disservice to those wanting to hear active speakers.  OTOH most of those are around $200/pair and what can you expect for a pair of speakers plus 4 channels of amplification at that price?  Really good 2-way active monitors (like Neuman KH120) run $1400/pair on the street and are a flaming bargain.  My Dynaudio BM5 MKIII run in that league and I scored them off Amazon last summer for $850/pair.

[JLM]

My buddy Rex bought the plans of the DNA horns from Decware for 20 bucks, spent 300 for the parts and says these are as good as anything he has ever owned, and Rex has owned almost everything you can imagine. For DIY fans, this just might be the greatest value out there. Rex has owned a lot oh 6-10k speaker systems. With no crossover, small footprint, and high efficiency, only 2-5 watts is all you need.

Rex says he had Home Depot cut the boards for his speakers and he is in Hawaii, so the boards could be a little cheaper in the CONUS.

For a reference, he says these easily beats the KEF LS50's that he use to own. Rex also owns a pair of Dennis Murpheys Pioneer speakers.

References to LS50 or Pioneer speakers get very little traction from me.  The DNA looks similar to "The Horn" that Steve is very familiar with.  I've heard and like the Mark Audio drivers and am a single driver fan/owner.  I've also heard several of Steve's speakers - all were very bass weak (except for the stereo Imperial Horns that he used as subwoofers with two 15 inch drivers apiece.  Weak bass seemed to be his taste, typical of the small amp/high efficiency crowd.

[OzarkTom]

References to LS50 or Pioneer speakers get very little traction from me.  The DNA looks similar to "The Horn" that Steve is very familiar with.  I've heard and like the Mark Audio drivers and am a single driver fan/owner.  I've also heard several of Steve's speakers - all were very bass weak (except for the stereo Imperial Horns that he used as subwoofers with two 15 inch drivers apiece.  Weak bass seemed to be his taste, typical of the small amp/high efficiency crowd.

Rex goes for the most detail, best transparency, and the biggest soundstage. You lose that somewhat with a lot of bass out of a speaker. Crossovers causes that also. Rex loves vocals, not a huge fan of bass, besides, to get good deep bass, you need a 32 foot long listening room and turn your system up loud. I agree with Rex, I don't want to lose my hearing.

You would probably say that if you heard my Zellatons that gets voted the best sound at the Munich Audio show. I have heard huge bass at live concerts that will beat up your heart. Why? The singer is so bad, they don't want you to hear him sing.

[opnly bafld]

to get good deep bass, you need a 32 foot long listening room and turn your system up loud.

Not true.

[OzarkTom]

Not true.

.

A 16hz bass note is 32 foot long. I sold a system that did the 16hz note, but you had to be 32 foot away. Just one step towards that system and you lost it. But this system was a 40k, 18k speaker system back in the 80's, and there is no way you can get even 32 hz bass out of C&C speakers.

[Wind Chaser]

A 16hz bass note is 32 foot long.

Sorry, but "good deep bass" isn't characterized by 16 Hz and a 32' listening room.

[JLM]

Seems like Rex is the consummate SET/single driver fan.  To each their own.  My mains are single driver designs too, but rated F3 = 27 Hz (but aren't efficient enough for SETs).  You don't need to turn up the volume to hear deep bass.  Perhaps you've been without deep bass for so long you've forgotten.  Many of my single driver buddies almost freak out when they heard musical/deep bass from my speakers, like they can't believe it's real.

And I'm with O.B., you don't need a 32 foot long room to hear 16 Hz, which BTW is 70 feet long (1120 fps/16 Hz).  By that logical I wouldn't be able to hear below 53 Hz in my 21 foot long room and I know that's wrong.  What you were hearing was probably standing waves that exist in every residential sized room.