Horn Loudspeakers - Advantages and Opportunities

hum4god · « **Reply #140 on:** 28 Nov 2009, 07:40 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 15 Oct 2009, 05:32 pm

While I am certain the Imperia is a sound to behold, I get the impression that the target price is equal to the price of a modest home in the midwest.

The midbass horn particularly intrigues me. Actually I had the thought to make something similar after I first saw the 300hz horn. In fact I bought a set of router bits intended to ease such construction.

See here:

http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/bt_door.html#multisided_glue_anchor
How to guide here:
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/graphics2/plans-12-sided-planter.pdf
Need to work out a little geometry, but nothing difficult.

I have in mind to try this cone driver given JLH's experience with it.

http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro%20m5n12-80-1.htm
This one could work too:
http://www.usspeaker.com/B&C-8PE21-1.htm

Here is a good discussion on phase plugs, if it is needed.
http://www.centauriaudio.com.au/diy/plugs.html

here is another idea for building a horn : sorry text is in german

http://www.cornu.de/audio/fronthorn_sb.html

JoshK · « **Reply #141 on:** 28 Nov 2009, 11:25 pm »

Yeah, that is a good link, thanks. Similar concept.

No problem with the German. Ich haben ein bischen verstehen.

hum4god · « **Reply #142 on:** 1 Dec 2009, 01:14 am »

thanks for the help John and macrojack

i did a lot of reading on the forums this weekend trying to decide what horn / Cd would suit my needs (400-10khz) and i have to say i can barely see the forest anymore.
it seems like there is almost a little war going on between conical and lecleach hornlovers , not including the waveguide croud.

i sure like the idea of the AH 300 horn with the B&C DCM driver , only thing i am struggeling with is the pricetag of the Horn.

the horns from Jeffrey W Jackson ( elevenhorns ) look very well made and are 1k$ less !!! but a different concept (Lecleach flare).
Jeffrey has a very good reputation also .

i might be able to stretch my budget to the AH horn , but without knowing if its worth it , argh , decisions descisons.

if you have an opinion , give it to me.

thanks

nullspace · « **Reply #143 on:** 1 Dec 2009, 03:54 pm »

Malcolm, here's my opinion: You should buy what you like. For that kind of coin, you should make a point to try and hear an example of one or both -- I don't think they sound particularly similar.

If you email Bill Woods, he might be able to arrange for you to meet up with one of his customers local to you. I don't guess Jeffrey has many clients at this point, but at least try and find some tractix examples to hear, which will bear some resemblance to the Le Cleac'h horns.

Regards,
John

macrojack · « **Reply #144 on:** 1 Dec 2009, 04:03 pm »

Malcolm,

I don't consider myself an authority on horn loudspeakers having no opportunity to experience the many options out there. I found, as you did, that there is a lot of disagreement about who has the best approach. Since a lot of people have something to say on the subject, I looked for a way to differentiate among the many opinions. This led me to choosing on the basis of who chose which one and why. There were three people in particular who influenced my choice because all three had experience with a wide range of options and a firm commitment to horns.

These were Jonathan Weiss of Oswald's Mill fame, Chris Brady of Teres Turntables, and the guys who make the Cogent Field Coil Drivers.

Jonathan chose to use the Acoustic Horn AH300 in his AC1 ($65,000) speakers. Cogent chose the same horn with a modified sizing for their $15,000 field coil. Chris Brady was using Edgarhorns the one and only time I visited his listening space and what he had going with his DIY electronics, New Direct Drive turntable, and ZYX cartridge was fantastic. At the next RMAF he heard the Cogent System and negotiated immediately to take it home from the show.

All of this told me that if the guys who have the money and experience and connections choose to spend their funds and credibility on Acoustic Horns, I might be wise to follow their lead. After all, they weren't promoting anything to me as I can't hope to buy their products.

This brings us to the price of the AH300/B&C DCM 50 combo. I would imagine that U.S. buyers could expect to spend about $3300 shipped for a stereo pair. The horns are $2216/ pair and the drivers are about $900/pair.

This amount is not chicken feed but relative to the prices of state of the art, extended range horn systems, it should be seen as a bargain. As far as I know, there is no better mid range reproducer available today.

Picture the QUAD 57 with lifelike dynamics and extreme power handling. There is no horn honk and the clarity exceeds anything else I know about.

I'm sure these claims will be challenged but the comments are unlikely to come from someone who knows these speakers well. I'm only speaking out in the hopes of getting Malcolm over his hesitation. He contacted me privately about Acoustic Horn and he had contacted Bill Woods before that.

hum4god · « **Reply #145 on:** 2 Dec 2009, 01:29 am »

Hi macrojack

you might have just pushed me over the edge to AH .
and you are not the only one who speaks very very highly about Bill and his horns.
i contacted a few people over at the asylum, and they all say that if you want the best and can afford it , go with Bill's horn's.
so i will dig deep into my wallet and hopefully be able to make myself a nice big horny x-mas present.

JoshK · « **Reply #146 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 03:26 pm »

Another idea for turning horns using a lathe. This guy came up with a very clever jig for following a pattern. It looks like a duplicator jig, but used slightly differently.

Lathe Duplicator Jig

JoshK · « **Reply #147 on:** 16 Dec 2009, 03:41 pm »

If you can make one good waveguide, you can use it to cast multiples.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MJ9lgZ3V90o

Above from JLH's post
here

nullspace · « **Reply #148 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 01:07 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 14 Oct 2009, 03:36 pm

They are a pair of the Consonance Cyber 845's and I don't they have any feedback. I have not traced the circuit yet, so I can't be 100% certain.

I do plan on trying a Zobel to try and smooth out the impedance bumps and make life a little easier for the amp. Assuming I can find time this weekend I plan on measuring the amps, including the output impedance. I need to calculate the values for a Zobel as well along with what seems to be a ton of other things.

Quote from: nullspace on 14 Oct 2009, 03:16 pm
Quote from: mgalusha on 14 Oct 2009, 03:14 am
II picked up an 845 based SET a couple of weeks ago and I'm starting to see the attraction.

Mike,

Could you tell us a bit more about your 845 SET? The reson I ask is because, since it's SET I assume no-feedback and therefore a 2-3ohm output impedence, based on the Abbey's impedence plot you posted the freq. response should differ from the official plot Dr. Geddes has posted at his website. And I would like to hear your impressions on how the speakers sound with the SET.

I'm mightily curious about the Abbeys, but were I to snag a pair I'd almost certainly try putting a LCR across the speaker to smooth about the impedence bump at 1.5khz.

Hi Mike,

Did you ever get around to trying any impedence compensation with the Abbeys? I've been on a kick lately, thinking about how relatively important smooth impedence and benign phase angles are for SETs, and I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks.

Regards,
John

JoshK · « **Reply #149 on:** 3 Mar 2010, 06:18 pm »

An unbiased review on one horn system of a well known personality within the audiophile community. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0310/audiolics_anonymous_chapter_125.htm

doug s. · « **Reply #150 on:** 3 Mar 2010, 06:55 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 3 Mar 2010, 06:18 pm

An unbiased review on one horn system of a well known personality within the audiophile community. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0310/audiolics_anonymous_chapter_125.htm

he has an interesting website...

http://www.romythecat.com/

doug s.

mgalusha · « **Reply #151 on:** 3 Mar 2010, 09:02 pm »

Quote from: nullspace on 23 Dec 2009, 01:07 pm

Did you ever get around to trying any impedence compensation with the Abbeys? I've been on a kick lately, thinking about how relatively important smooth impedence and benign phase angles are for SETs, and I'd appreciate your comments. Thanks.

John, just now saw this.

No, I have not had a chance. I undertook some contract work and have had little time for tinkering with my own toys.

mgalusha · « **Reply #152 on:** 3 Mar 2010, 09:06 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 3 Mar 2010, 06:18 pm

An unbiased review on one horn system of a well known personality within the audiophile community. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0310/audiolics_anonymous_chapter_125.htm

I saw that the other day and immediately recognized Romy's system. I always wondered if what he writes about was as good as he makes it sound, it appears so. I have spent a fair amount of time reading about his "Melquiades" amplifier. I might have to collect up the parts to build a couple though that is only part of the picture.

JoshK · « **Reply #153 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 01:48 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 3 Mar 2010, 09:06 pm

I saw that the other day and immediately recognized Romy's system. I always wondered if what he writes about was as good as he makes it sound, it appears so. I have spent a fair amount of time reading about his "Melquiades" amplifier. I might have to collect up the parts to build a couple though that is only part of the picture.

Ditto. I can't say I enjoy reading Romy's diatribe, but I actually agree with many of his proclivities.

I ordered a pair of 140hz LC horns from elevenhorns for the 5" Faital shown above (4" throat). I am going to experiment with an all horn/mostly horn system. I am planning to use the custom made OS/LC waveguides above these.

JLH shared with me some measurements he took of a similar pairing. He had, iirc, a 30" OS waveguide with mouth rollback paired with a 34" Tractrix horn (135hz Fc). The directivity measurements he took look to be a good match at around 600-800hz.

He crossed at 800hz and 135hz to some tapped horns. So my road is partially paved already. I know there is a chance that it'll work out. He even tried the Faital mid, which is where I got the idea.

I am not trying to copy anyone else's work, but I have always wanted to try horns and his setup, as described sounds like it leans the way I would.

My recently completed bass bins will be put into service below the midbass horns (really midrange bandwidth, but I am going with convention on naming it).

My Festool saw arrived and I have the birch ply, so I am planning to make the small tapped horns (for distributed bass) soon. I am also finishing up my abbey clones, so I will have a lot of mixing and matching to try out.

mgalusha · « **Reply #154 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 02:47 pm »

Love to hear that when your done Josh - 'course we are never quite done...

I have been seriously pondering converting my Abbeys to an active setup and using a low power SET on the waveguides. Assuming I can dial in the crossover correctly but it should be cool if I can get there. I hate the complexity of active systems but they just do so many things right.

No sure if I'll get to a full horn setup but who knows. It's taken me years to mentally adjust to where I can even consider low power amps and horns.

jtwrace · « **Reply #155 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 02:59 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 4 Mar 2010, 02:47 pm

I hate the complexity of active systems but they just do so many things right.

I agree..I fought it for awhile but have come to realize it's sooo nice to tweak if needed. I currently use a combo of active and passive. It works VERY well in my setup.

My active http://www.ashly.com/protea324cl-cl-d.html

mgalusha · « **Reply #156 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 03:26 pm »

The Ashly processor looks nice, how do you like it? I still have one of my hot rodded DCX's from my previous active setup so I'd start with that.

macrojack · « **Reply #157 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 03:33 pm »

Am I the only one who uses a dbx Drive Rack PA? I like it just fine but I have to wonder why I never see it mentioned on AC.

jtwrace · « **Reply #158 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 03:44 pm »

Quote from: mgalusha on 4 Mar 2010, 03:26 pm

The Ashly processor looks nice, how do you like it? I still have one of my hot rodded DCX's from my previous active setup so I'd start with that.

I had a DCX...I REALLY like the Ashly. Very intuitive and made in the USA.

jtwrace · « **Reply #159 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 03:46 pm »

Quote from: macrojack on 4 Mar 2010, 03:33 pm

Am I the only one who uses a dbx Drive Rack PA? I like it just fine but I have to wonder why I never see it mentioned on AC.

MJ-

No sir! Some of the better active systems I've heard use the dbx. I almost bought one before I got mine but thought I'd try something different (as I thought everyone used the dbx).