Miller and Kreisel S1-b review

Rclark · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 07:33 am »

I think the tweeters are Vifa's and the mids are Seas, right? I'd love to know the models used so I can read about them and order some spares. They won't ever get pushed to 11, though, I get the feeling these will last a lifetime if they've made it this far. These are just such beautiful sounding drivers, I have to open the cabinets tommorrow and see them.

They do hint at being able to wail though. I've just not pushed them that hard yet. Right now listening to Beck's new album and basking in the soundstage.

Would you send me the higher res scans? I'd really appreciate it. Bcustum2@hotmail.com

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 01:44 pm »

I wouldn't take those apart just to look at the drivers. They survived this long, they still sound good,,, just enjoy them.

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #22 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 04:07 pm »

Okay, I'm confused as to if Miller and Kreisel is still in business. Does anyone know for sure if they're still around? The internet isn't clear as to their current business status.

HsvHeelFan

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #23 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 04:19 pm »

I remember M&K from back in the day. I lived in a house with a small satellite/woofer M&K combo somewhere around 80-81 (I think it was their top model at the time - homeowner was a salesman at the Stereo store that sold them - I think it was Sun Stereo in Stockton CA).

It was a very musical sounding system and I was introduced to many pieces of 60's-70's Vinyl that I was unfamiliar with at the time (I'll always remember giving the poor guy a heart attack after listening to something I didn't recognize at first and saying "These guys are pretty good - who is it? Doors - LA Woman

)

Very good speakers in their time.

benguin · « **Reply #24 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 04:29 pm »

MK Sound owns the licensing and designs purchased from the shut down of Miller and Kreisel (M&K) around 2010.

Ken Kreisel has started up Ken Kreisel Sound, which initially was only subwoofers, but now looks like he has gotten back into a line of multichannel speakers- "Quattro"- looks like they feature tri-pole surrounds.

Rclark- full versions em'd to you. Let me know if they don't come through.
- Ben

Rclark · « **Reply #25 on:** 25 Feb 2014, 11:41 pm »

I never imagined I'd be saying this after my first inspection of these speakers. I can't believe I'm typing this. Maybe it's the synergy with my amps, the diffusers in my room, whatever it is, these speakers are absolutely astonishing, breathtaking. My plan now... is to keep this pair in here long, long term and put my Maggies in the living room. Not that they're better, have yet to do a head to head, but these speakers in this room, right now, sound ridiculous.

When I get an H4 recorder I'll prove it.

Thanks, Ben, I'll check my email soon. Reza.

Rclark · « **Reply #26 on:** 5 Mar 2014, 08:23 pm »

So several people have been by to hear this system and have come away as equally impressed as I. These speakers are getting that max capability from the Ncores. The speakers are the Lotus chassis and the Ncores are a fully race tuned transmission and V8.

But the car can go even faster. Anyone care to explain the special inputs? I assume they are for biamping the top section? The manual strangely leaves this topic unanswered.

Got this Virtue Two.2 on Claritycaps with battery supply just sitting around...

But even if biamping is possible, my guess is single pair of Ncores beats Ncores + Virtue on tweeters.

abernardi · « **Reply #27 on:** 6 Mar 2014, 01:45 am »

Oh Yeah, oh yeah, oh YEAH! Congrats RClark, awesome find. I spent my savings on a pair of S-1b's and a V-1b sub in the mid '80's bought from Jonas Miller Sound in Santa Monica (long since closed). It's my understanding that they were the first satellite/sub system out there and at the time, that's where I thought all speaker design was going to go. I met Ken Kreisel in the store when I bought them and he actually explained the concept to me and helped me with some issues I was having setting them up. We've been in touch off an on since, he's very accessible btw, he answers emails if you have any questions. I know most of us have a kind of geeky love affair with our equipment, and I guess you could say these were my first love.
Over the years I collected another V-1b and three more S-1b's, used off CL and ebay and put together a killer 5.1 (or .2 actually) system just as Star Wars episode 1 came out on DVD. When that big silver cruiser flew overhead in the beginning, it FLEW OVERHEAD. I ended up suspending them from the ceiling, it was the only way I could practically set them up in the living room. I quickly got into SACD's and DVD-A's and like you, blew away all my friends. I personally believe you have to have full range speakers for your surrounds, especially if your going to listen to multi-channel music and these fit the bill perfectly.
The S-1b's are rock solid, I'm not sure I could have blown them out. I was driving them with Adcom amps, good budget mid-high fi. I didn't know high end at the time. Now that I know more, I regret selling them because I'd like to hear how they'd do with a better system feeding them. I'll bet your Ncores are a great match for them. I did know what the Special speaker terminals were for at one time, but I've since forgotten. I might have it jotted down somewhere, I'll let you know.
When I got married I dismantled the system and sold everything off. When I got divorced, I slowly started rebuilding and went much more audiophile. I decided to go in another direction for speakers and am very happy with my current setup. The only fault I could find with the M&K's is that they were a little analytical and not quite as natural sounding as my current setup, but as I said, I didn't have a really good system to drive them.
M&K built some very high end monitors that are still used professionally, I know of one studio that still uses them as their main monitors. So they come with a very good pedigree. Very accurate, flat and detailed. You will hear all the faults, but at the same time, they never overwhelmed my listening room as my current speakers sometimes do. In fact, M&K had their own record label as I recall and made some good audiophile CD's all mastered with M&K speakers.
I still have the V-1b's and recently reconed them and put in new plate amps. They are not bad, but they don't really stand up to what you can get today. I found them pretty easy to overdrive. On the positive side though, they are very musical. They're sealed and they have a fixed crossover at 125Hz specifically designed for the S-1b. I think it's a 4th order crossover, not sure. So for music they're good, for HT, I'd look for something else. When you get your sub, which I'm sure you will

, cross over at 125Hz and you should be good.
That's all that comes to mind right now, if I remember anything else, I'll post. Again, congrats!

Rclark · « **Reply #28 on:** 13 Mar 2014, 07:03 pm »

What a great great post! Thanks for that!

Really proud to own these. Long term update is yeah, they are totally unreal, perfect in this midsize room. Over the next year, my last bits for the hi fi are some bass trapping, more diffusers, and a dspeaker dual core 2.0. Can't wait to wring these out for all they're worth

Rclark · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Mar 2014, 10:10 pm »

Anyone in the Seattle area interested in doing a shootout with their more modern stand mount speakers? I keep laughing at how amazing these sound and would love to put them up against something new. For reference, these outclass a GR N2, you will need to come harder. Will bring Ncores if you're curious about those.

fridays · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Mar 2014, 10:31 pm »

I want to hear a pair of these old things

jonbee · « **Reply #31 on:** 20 Mar 2014, 12:13 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 19 Mar 2014, 10:10 pm

Anyone in the Seattle area interested in doing a shootout with their more modern stand mount speakers? I keep laughing at how amazing these sound and would love to put them up against something new. For reference, these outclass a GR N2, you will need to come harder. Will bring Ncores if you're curious about those.

I'd love to hear them. I'm near downtown Seattle. I also use an Ncore. I have a pair of Volent VL2s and Selah Monitors, plus Daedalus DA-RMas.
PM me if you'd like.

Rclark · « **Reply #32 on:** 20 Mar 2014, 06:48 pm »

Excellent, I'll arrange something with both of you.

abernardi · « **Reply #33 on:** 21 Mar 2014, 04:15 am »

Wish I was up there, would love to sit in. From memory, I would say they will be hard to beat for shear tight, solidity. They're fast, yes.. but they also have SLAM. No flab these. Damn, put those with a modern subwoofer... DO IT.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #34 on:** 11 Jun 2014, 10:22 pm »

Interesting thread. I saw a pair of these in a pawn shop today for $189. About how efficient are they?

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #35 on:** 16 Jun 2014, 12:02 am »

So I bought a pair of these from a pawn shop for $140. Not as efficient as I'd like, but far more musical and revealing than I would have expected. These could easily compete with anything for $1000 and quite possibly even $2000. The Pioneer BS22 are wonderful little speakers with superb value, but they don't hold a smoldering candle to these.

Rclark · « **Reply #36 on:** 16 Jun 2014, 05:18 pm »

Ah vindication!

Aren't they amazing? I still have mine plugged in, Maggies waiting patiently in the other room, resting up. Maybe you'll have better luck proving it to someone in your area, schedules clashed over on my end.

These speakers deserve a shootout against something new and high end. Agreed!

Rclark · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Jul 2014, 09:21 pm »

Had a house party the other night and had these things up pretty loud. For such old speakers, they absolutely wail when pushed, and produce very, very strong bass. We left my subwoofer off but I stepped outside and these speakers were producing strong, sub like bass that carried quite a distance. Of course being sealed, and off Ncores that's just a recipe for extremely tight, tuneful notes as well.

Best of both worlds, extremely musical, transparent, audiophile level, true high end, that also crank like JBL's but without the chuffing ports.

Anyway, my point is these speakers will last a lifetime and can be run as loud as you please.

Rclark · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 07:33 am »

So I have been running these speakers in my main rig exclusively. Maggies are in the living room where they have a little more room to breathe (and as they are Magnestands, they dress up the room quite well).

But these speakers sound just amazing and I have run them nonstop, daily since I unearthed them. And they may as well be brand new despite that I know they were run from day one when purchased in the 80's by the original owner. These were used in a party room, hung from the ceiling, all 4 of them, supplementing large floorstanders. Those guys liked to party.

These will run forever, nothing fragile or cheap about them.

Very much looking forward to a shootout in Jonbee's system. He owns gear that would be considered ultra high end by Circle standards, so looking forward to bringing these over, just a matter of time that we hook up.

benguin · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 08:55 pm »

A while back, I sent Ken Kreisel a note to let him know of this thread, as I thought he'd like to see the reviews on how well the S1-b family has held up over time. I think he really enjoyed seeing the comments. He's got some interesting new stuff that he's developed, if you haven't had a look.

Great imaging and clarity on the Sat/sub systems-- I still remember first hearing them at an audio showroom in suburban Chicago in the mid-80s and bought a set that week with my first "real job" (post-college) paycheck. They still sound good.
- Ben