AudioCircle

Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Vinyl Gear Reviews => Topic started by: TheChairGuy on 2 May 2006, 03:11 am

Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 2 May 2006, 03:11 am
Incredibly, dcbingman's TT arrived in one day from St. Louis today.  It beat the just-ordered Shure Tracking Force guage by a day...and that's only coming from 60 miles.  So, right now I'm guessing VTF by ear...not really a great way to do it.

This line has been disco'ed by VPI fairly recently, but as many examples exist out there, it's worth reviewing here as I 'discover' it's virtues.  Even new, this near 50 lb'er was $1200 without arm....by weight, pretty much the champion for a US made table.  Those overseas, it's a great table, but you might have better exchange rates/values buying another brand of table locally.

I bought my pristine rendition for $700.00...with upgraded Rega 250 arm.  So, it's all well within budget for me (bonus and partnership profits are scrace now, when they tend to be plentiful for the ChairGuy, as I have my money tied up in Wal-mart and BJ's Wholesale inventory right now).  It's not a  bad place to have it, but it's not in my pocket - the safest place for it.  So, I'm unusually pinched, when I am ordinarily flush, this time of year. Typically, I have a feast for 4 months, starve for 4 and skate by for 4 months....such is the life of a ChairGuy.

These are the 4 tables I've owned in the past 25 years:

JVC JLA-20 (belt drive) with Grace F9e (packed with 15 lbs of Mortite, it played pretty good for this then teenager).

Townshend Rock Mark II, Helius Silver Tonearm and modded Grado.  Fantastic bass - has put every CD player to shame.  Unfortunately, I sold it after only a year as I was squandering money back then.

Thorens TD-316 and Shure V15. (the latest and last one).  I never could get it to sing...still don't know why; lord knows I tried.

JVC ql-A2 (direct drive) with AT440ml or Ortofon X5-MC or vdh tipped Sumiko Blue Point.  Speed regulation is soooo important...while overall enjoyment wasn't equal to my belt drive JVC TT 20 years earlier; there was something extremely addictive to quartz locked speed regulation.  I think direct drive is lacking that supremely quiet noise floor due to it's inherent design, but speed regulation is fantastic.  Every belt driver could probably benefit from speed regulation....and a heavy mass platter for flywheel effect.

I'll add to my notes as I learn about the VPI.....anything any of you guys can add that'll add to my enjoyment will be much appreciated  :)
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 3 May 2006, 05:08 pm
I'm still setting up this TT, but I have to put my plug in for VPI's customer service.

The HW-19 came sans owners manual, so I called VPI today hoping I could buy one from them.  As this model was disco'ed a couple years ago, they didn't have many around any more.  But, they sent one out to me - for gratis.  There are reprints out there for $9.95 I know, but I wanted an original printed one - and had expected to pay something for it. Major kudo's for their service...they could have easily (and rightfully) charged my $10.00 or more for this.

I spoke to a tech named Mike. The platter has a noticable 'wobble' when turning.  It spun forever without a belt attached, so I knew it wasn't anything serious, but I wanted it fixed.  Mike gave me a very simple fix to re-orient the spindle to the platter and reduce or eliminate the visual wobble.  I'd say I dialed it in to 25% of the former wobble...enough so that I'm fine with it now.

The upgrade path is mightly appealling on this machine.  For $300.00, you can buy the Scout bearing and platter....it is the same size and weight as current, but is quieter.  For $600, you can get the oversized platter (a la Scoutmaster) and inverted bearing.....adding considerable quietness, and notable mass (primarily noticed in bass) to the set-up.  The oversized platter also allows you add a VPI  Peripheral Outer Ring (another $600) - akin to a vacuum hold down system without the drawbacks.  This makes for every album to be near ruler flat during playback - greatly enhancing tracking.  It also adds mass to the outermost portion of the platter - again, increasing bass weight.  

If you add a SAMA (stand alone motor assembly - $400),  you essentially have the performance of a SuperScoutmaster...which I think retail for $3000.00 without arm  :thumb:

Those are some gaudy numbers to chew over...I think I'll just enjoy this for awhile  :)
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: woodsyi on 3 May 2006, 08:00 pm
Oh, oh.  I think somebody is on the precipice looking down at a very slippery slope!  Somebody grab him before he leans too far.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 3 May 2006, 08:03 pm
It'll take $1600.00 more to get it to that level of performance...not something I'm itchin' to do right now.

DPTCG (Dirt Poor TheChairGuy)   :wink:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: woodsyi on 4 May 2006, 02:20 pm
Hey there TCG,

I got a killer cartridge for your new TT.  Check it out.

http://www.higherfi.com/KoetzuBullet_web.jpg

I believe the cartridge needs reloading after use.  :mrgreen:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: mcrespo71 on 4 May 2006, 03:45 pm
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

That was great woodsyi!
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: OTL on 4 May 2006, 11:59 pm
You'd better stock up on drive belts.  I don't know anywhere on the planet where you can get belt for an HW other than VPI.

BTW, the upgraded platter on my HW Jr. has a wobble too  :(
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 5 May 2006, 02:22 am
Quote from: OTL
You'd better stock up on drive belts.  I don't know anywhere on the planet where you can get belt for an HW other than VPI.

BTW, the upgraded platter on my HW Jr. has a wobble too  :(


I read somewhere that if you put the VPI belt (ostensibly anybody's too, I guess) in to boiling water for 10 seconds it will shrink the belt tighter so you'll get a little more use from it. Mine's a little loose, so I'm going to try it soon.

I didn't look that hard for a belt source, but found one quickly in Elusive Disc (an authorized reseller of VPI): http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HW-2016

Doesn't that wobble suck?  It can't be any good for tracking purposes however slight.  There is a way of getting it pretty level tho.....

Take the platter off the plinth (removing the belt, of course).  Turn the platter upside down with the topside of the spindle into a soft carpet. Push the platter down (with a bit of force) until the (removeable) spindle pops out. Clean the hole it just popped from to make sure grit hasn't made it's way in there.

Put the spindle back on the platter softly (it won't be fully seated) and place back on plinth (without belt on).

Turn the platter to see the wobble if it's still there.  Rock the platter upward while holding the spindle to adjust the wobble by eye.  Once you're satisfied that it's as good as it's going to get, place your clamp (I assume you have one) and tighten down on the spindle to lock it down in place.

That's how I got mine about 75% better than the way I received it.

I think the upgraded platter on your HW Jr. is the same as my platter on the HW-19 Mark III  :?:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 5 May 2006, 02:59 am
Well, I'm finally dialing in this TT now, I think.

I got my Shure SFG-2 today and I was guessing tracking force a bit too high. With dcbingaman's help I figured out how to use the Expressimo VTA adjuster. Getting a belt driver level using a spirit level and getting the azimuth and overhang has always, to me, been far more beneficial than twiddling with VTA.  And so it was on the HW-19, also.  And, all three cartridges I own are extreme elliptical (read as pain-in-the-arse) shaped styli...either line contact, Gyger or van den hul (nuthin' more tweaky than a 2 x 70 micron shape on the vdh - friggin' miniscule).

As I had with the JVC when I first got it, I was having some tracking problems...even with the champion tracker, the AT440ML.  I thought the cartridge wire might be bunched up in the arm...but that didn't seem to be the issue. It was just mistracking (skipping, stylus getting stuck, etc)more than it should....and, frankly, I thought the sound was no more weightly and alluring then my (heavily, but simply, modded) $50 JVC.

I recently removed my van Alstine Longhorn from my 3 cartridges as the VPI used a large clamp (it would bump into the clamp before the side ended - eech). I decided to re-attach it to my vdh retipped Blue Point tonite and remove the clamp when playing.

Seamless, absolutely friggin' seamless tracking and stellar presentation  :!:  Bass that sounds taut, as if a $600 platter upgrade happened, and a sharper, more dynamic, less distorted performance, with improved piano pitch and decay and a better sense of acoustical space all around.  A serious improvement for just about nil.

Lionel Ritchie never sounded so good (no laughing fella's - I like the album - and it's fun dancing with my 2 year old to it) and a re-play of Franz Schubert Symphony No. 9, which sounded quite horrible 2 days ago, was vastly  improved.  I suspect it's all about less distortion as every facet of the presentation has improved.  All the midrange musicality of vinyl is enhanced, and the transients and attack (dynamics) are now more CD-like.  

I never found a clamp to do anything noticeably good...you won't miss it when you mount the Longhorn.

It's so easy to do and it requires no soldering (I didn't and don't).  Just use a 1.5" long non-magnetic piece of brass or copper (I use three snips of 13ga. solid core magent wire) and some gooey/gummmy/tacky stuff like blutak, quakehold or similar to place your longhorn on the front of the body of the cartridge.  Go look thru the 'Longhorn Modification Really Works' topic that ran a couple months back her on The Vinyl Circle.

The benefit seems more substantial on the VPI than the JVC ever was (it was a pleasant, but not astounding, upgrade there).  The positive effects appear to be greatly enhanced in better vinyl systems...or at least in this one. Up untul tonite I wondered why I paid $700 for something that wasn't any more enjoyable (overall) than my $50 JVC....NOW, I hear the differnes between the two.  

I have to again thank Frank van Alstine for this great gift.  He vastly improved a $700 (used) VPI and $300 cartridge today.  The Longhorn mod should be standard issue on every cartridge made - damn the stupid looks. It's an astoundingly effective tweek and I don't know if I can use another cartridge again without it  :wink:
Title: Hmmm...
Post by: OTL on 5 May 2006, 03:19 am
Do ya think that the Longhorn might be the reason that Clearaudio carts choose this shape..... http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/clearaudio/images/sigmawood.jpg

Makes ya wonder...

Listen, share and enjoy.

OTL
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: OTL on 5 May 2006, 03:35 am
Welcome to the world of VPI.  Harry W. truly hears, understands and mystically translates his ears into his hardware.

Such a shame that the view of "newer is better" squashed the HW line.  But, such is life.  

The HW's are truly one of the most under-appreciated components ever produced.  Tweakable, musical, full range and responsive.  Capable of crushing a CD in a single bound.  Consider yourself lucky you've obtained one at a very reasonable price.  Your journey has only just begun.

Please wipe that silly grin off your face!

Listen, share and enjoy.

OTL
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 6 May 2006, 03:52 am
My HW-19 Mark III is 12+ years old - so said previous owner and confirmed by VPI the other day.

The newer HW-19's, Mark II and IV, shipped without the spring suspension.....some kind of sorbothane puck instead.  I think it shipped with the little cheap rubber feet, but newer Scout and Aries ship with cone feet you can buy for $79.99/4.

Before I dove in for $80.00+, I wanted to see for myself re-configuring.  So, in place of the rubber feet I placed a Herbie's Tenderfoot at each corner....with a cork rounder on the bottom for a little different type of isolation.

In place of the springs, I had a four stout 2.5" long brass flathead screws, nuts and washers that fit perfectly into the mounting holes where the springs were mounted.  To the top of each screw, I put some cork again...for isolation and so that it didn't scratch the neat underside.

Well, it didn't take but 5 seconds of Sting's 'They Dance Alone' (so haunting, from ...Nothing Like the Sun) to notice a major difference.  Gone was an exaggerated sense of plush (that all too reminder me of my too soft Thorens years ago) and in it's place was taut bass, firm images and a major reduction in 'chatter' that was drawing my attention away from the music. Surprisingly, it's also much, much, much quieter...the fades are beautiful and the new cut comes up from a well of near total silence.  I hadn't at all expected that   :)

Another unexpected benefit is that it tracks better.  The Rega's are unipivot and they apparently work best on solid, non-suspended decks - not surprisingly, like Rega P2,3,25,7 and 9 TT's.  And so it seems as there is no skipping tonite as there was too frequently the past few days.  The Longhorn mod helped a ot yesterday, the change out of the spring seems to have ended it.

So, I'm not sure this is the optimum setup for the rig, but ditchin' the spring suspension was a large step in the right direction for the VPI - major, in fact in some ways.  It is mimicing, in all the positive ways, that of CD playback...yet keeping that analog liquidity and flow that only a good TT can provide.  There seems to be good reason why VPI ditched the springs in place of a more solid mount for the plinth.

If you have a HW, you can't go wrong with replacing the springs with 4 x 2.5" brass screws/nuts/washers and a package of self stick cork rounds down at your local Hardware store.  It'll be a well spent $6.00 I think  :wink:

In fact, until 20 minutes ago using this substitution, I didn't think the $700.00 spent was a great investment...it was sounding only a bit better than my old (not terribly loved) Thorens and about on par with my modded $50 JVC Direct Driver (maybe a tad better in a few ways).  

NOW, I know this is a stellar table and why the turntable freaks worship Harry Weisfeld.  It's very good, very tweekable and upgradeable, built very well and a terrific value  :thumb:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: avahifi on 6 May 2006, 03:53 pm
Again, I would like to remind you all that I wrote to John Grado and sent him all the info on the Longhorn upgrade, and all I got back was a terse reply saying "not interested".

How about all of you that knows how well this mechanical engineering improvment makes bombarding Grado Labs and ask "how come you are not interested"?  Seems sooooo stupid to me that they are not.

Frank Van Alstine
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 6 May 2006, 08:28 pm
Frank,

One day I'll try a Grado and then bombard him.  To no avail, I'd think...don't know why, tho.

Pride goeth where truth should reside  :idea:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 8 May 2006, 04:44 am
Well, I'm not sure if the 12 year old + example of a Mark III has an extra loud motor, or they tend to wear out...but, this motor was spewing all sorts of energy back into the plinth.  That of course means it was making it's way into the music.

I'd estimate the current plinth at about 10-12 lbs - decent for this level of cost.  But, the plinths on even the new Scout seems heavier; the Scout Master more so, of course.

Taking out and applying about 3 lbs of Plast-i-Clay to the underside of the plinth (you can't even see it as there is a steel overhangs that obscure it) eradicated a lot of the energy backing it's way into the plinth from the motor.

This little $7.00 add-on finally brought the table up to standards that I am comfortable with.  Before application, it was just barely better than the old JVC..it's now leagues better.  I can actually fathom the possibility of living with this table a long time, and looking at platter/bearing and Stand-Alone-Motor-Assembly (SAMA) as not far fetched in the future.  

I still think speed regulation is also necessary....but the current playback is really good and enjoyable.

So, there you go tweekers...go buy a Mark III for well under $1000.00 and:

1.  Do the van Alstine Longhorn mod to your cartridge (ditch the VPI clamp....it doesn't do nearly as much beneficial as the Longhorn mod does).

2.  Ditch the springs and, less important, replace the cheap rubber feat with something like cones or squishy domes/squares of some sort

3.  Add about 3 lbs of Plasti-i-Clay to the underside of the plinth (and on the armboard) liberally.

I'm looking at a good 2" thick maple butcher block, too....I am pretty sure the current pine board I'm using is providing no favors for sound.  The dang TT is so large tho, that it didn't fit on my goodly sized granite cutting board  :o

The total takes but very little in outlay, but the benefits are high. Finally, this table is really cranking out tunes.  Grover Washington Jr/Winelight has never sounded this good in my home  :)
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 12 May 2006, 09:16 pm
Addendum:

So, there you go tweekers...go buy a Mark III for well under $1000.00 and:

1. Do the van Alstine Longhorn mod to your cartridge (ditch the VPI clamp....it doesn't do nearly as much beneficial as the Longhorn mod does).

2. Ditch the springs and, less important, replace the cheap rubber feat with something like cones or squishy domes/squares of some sort

3. Add about 3 lbs of Plasti-i-Clay to the underside of the plinth (and on the armboard) liberally.

4. Go to your local hardware store and purchase a $0.99 rool of plumbers teflon tape.  Wrap 3 concentric circles/spots on the tonearm and on the counterweight (4 total).  Re-balance your arm, of course, afterwards. Mine's a Rega RB250 and Expressimo counterweight  

Gargantuan improvement for nearly nothing.  This motor spews a whole lotta' energy back into the plinth and it very clearly makes it's way into the tonearm.  The tonearm buzzes in my hand when I hold it and the motor is on.  This little tweek reduced it to very feeble. The entire sound took on a more relaxed and natural state.

It got rid of the vestige of the presentation that was just hurting me to listen (it was just a bit irritating)....before this, I had to still give the edge to my CD playback.  You just know something is wrong if it's easier to listen long periods of time to a CD than your vinyl set-up  :wink:
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: ohenry on 13 May 2006, 01:24 pm
Hi TCG,
It's good to hear that you finally got a "real" turntable (just kidding!).

Anyway, that motor vibration issue doesn't seem normal as my old HW19 doesn't shake and shimmy like that.  I hope that isn't a preview of further motor issues for you.

BTW, the springs aren't good for any environments that I've encountered.  I'll try the plasticlay under the plinth, and investigate some squishy feetses.  :)   I'll have to wait until the ringing from Johnny Winter's Friday night show subsides though.8)

Thanks for the tips...
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: OTL on 14 May 2006, 12:10 am
Believe it or not, I still have an unopened Sumiko Survial Kit!  Honestly, just never took the time to experiment.  Silly me!
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 18 May 2006, 04:16 am
Quote from: ohenry
Hi TCG,
It's good to hear that you finally got a "real" turntable (just kidding!).

Anyway, that motor vibration issue doesn't seem normal as my old HW19 doesn't shake and shimmy like that.  I hope that isn't a preview of further motor issues for you.

BTW, the springs aren't good for any environments that I've encountered.  I'll try the plasticlay under the plinth, and investigate some squishy feetses.  :)   I'll have to wait until the ringing from Johnny Winter's Friday night show subsides though.8)

Thanks for the tips...


Hey Henry,

I missed your post until today - sorry.

I kinda' thought that VPI wouldn't engineer a motor that shaked and baked so bad...it really is intrusive.  'dcbingaman' - you really should have made full disclosure of this before I plunked down my $700.00 with ya'  :nono:  

I still wouldn't have considered it a horrible deal at $700.00, but it would have been nice to know it beforehand  :(  

So my choice now is to buy a new (attached) motor to replace current at probably $100-200.00...or go whole hog and do the SAMA at $400. 00.  

Ouch.
Title: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 13 Jun 2006, 09:13 pm
Note to self: never evalutate a new table with a new phono cartridge. You can't really differentiate where the problems stems if both are new.....turns out the motor is shot (the seller, dcbingaman, worked out an equitable financial solution with me recently - kudo's to him  :thumb: ) AND the cartridge was not near broken in until recently.  I estimate it took 50 hours for it to settle in....now it sounds delicious  :D

The Mark III came in a day after a newly re-tipped Sumiko Blue Point from Van den Hul (a lovely boron beauty, it looks like).  Interestingly, Mr. vdH clipped about half of the old aluminum tubed Sumiko cantilever...and inserted the new vdH boron jobbie inside it.  Must save him a bit of time that way...perhaps that's why it only cost me a little over $300 from Klaus/Odyssey Audio.

Klaus really has some great deals in cartridges from time to time...I think the same time I bought mine, he has low output, vdH re-tipped Koetsu's and Lyra's for $800 or something. It's worth calling him to find out before you plunk down on your next Moving Coil - I know I will.

I expect things should improve further with a new motor or SAMA soon....there is a very pronounced hum that traces back to the motor now.

NOW I know what you VPI guys 'glow' about...it's one damn fine table for the money - the best I've owned (notably also, the most expensive at $700 with re-wired Rega 250 tonearm)
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Berndt on 27 Jun 2006, 04:00 pm
I found the same tt with an sme 309 for 1k locally.
Is this a reasonable #?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 27 Jun 2006, 06:11 pm
I found the same tt with an sme 309 for 1k locally.
Is this a reasonable #?

Hey Bill,

I answered your email already on this...it's not quite the same.  The TT is inferior and the SME tonearm is, by price at least, superior than my re-wired Rega 250.

You can find HW-19 Mark III's regularly on Audiogon...occasionally on ebay, too, for less than $1000.00 set up this way.

John / TCG
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Psychicanimal on 27 Jun 2006, 10:49 pm
In fact, until 20 minutes ago using this substitution, I didn't think the $700.00 spent was a great investment...it was sounding only a bit better than my old (not terribly loved) Thorens and about on par with my modded $50 JVC Direct Driver (maybe a tad better in a few ways).  

NOW, I know this is a stellar table and why the turntable freaks worship Harry Weisfeld.  It's very good, very tweekable and upgradeable, built very well and a terrific value  :thumb:

You are now ready for the Creature on Steroids, grasshopper... :lol:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: JoshK on 27 Jun 2006, 11:02 pm
PA is back....uh oh.  :lol: j/k  long time.

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 27 Jun 2006, 11:48 pm
Holy cow, it is indeed Mr. Psychicanimal....defender of truth, justice, salsa and street music and Technics Direct Drive TT's everywhere  :wink:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Berndt on 28 Jun 2006, 12:10 am
The VPI I was looking at got swooped up.
here it was for reference...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ele/175850011.html
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 28 Jun 2006, 01:07 am
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1156098088

Bill, try this one...and buy a used Rega 250 or 300 arm; this table is one step above mine...and has the outboard Stand Alone Motor Assembly (SAMA), as well.  For $1200 or so with tonearm (it's already drilled for a Rega) you'd have a table beaten by only those for $$$ thousands more, most likely.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Psychicanimal on 28 Jun 2006, 10:30 am
PA is back....uh oh.  :lol: j/k  long time.


I know! Your appearance has changed!!! :o

Holy cow, it is indeed Mr. Psychicanimal....defender of truth, justice, salsa and street music and Technics Direct Drive TT's everywhere  :wink:

Well, glad I'm remembered...my sabbatical is over!

I saw the begginings of your journey.  You had a good course and heading  :icon_arrow:, then you strayed off listening to the mermaids.

The trail left by the ship on the sea, the snake on the rocks and the man on the virgin are the same, according to the book of Proverbs.

At the time I Beta tested the modded Groovemaster, my cartridge was an Ortofon X5-MC and already had the fluid damper installed.  The Ortofon was chosen over many many other cartidges for performance, compatibility and value.  I went through the same challenges you saw on the nautical chart, but I navigated around them.  Nowadays, the KAB modded 1200 is a world class contender in the Vinyl Asylum and has been compared A to B to turnables several thousand dollars more expensive, holding its own.

The stern of the vessel moves in the direction of the propeller rotation. :dance:


Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Berndt on 28 Jun 2006, 02:12 pm
The Kab is still interesting to me...btw.
I am not locked in to following chairguys footsteps the rest of me life, albiet his guidance has been valuable.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 28 Jun 2006, 03:34 pm
Hey PA - welcome back - you add more than a little flavor to this board.

I was truly pleased with my JVC direct driver for $50 from ebay, personally I find the Ortofon X5-MC too tame for my taste (even with my own DIY version of a damping trough added and the van alstine Longhorn glued to it's front).  The clarity and imaging character is amazing, however.....simply outstanding in that regard.

I bought my used VPI set up for $700......a new, fully tricked out Technics SL-1210M5G with damper, strobe disabler and outboard power supply from Kevin/KAB was a bit over $1000.00...so it really came down to dollars and sense more than anything else in the final outcome.

I'm still open to the possibility of a Technics in my future...albeit with reservations about it's inherent motor mounted permanently right under the platter and it's tonearm (too many solder joints trying to pass teeny <2mv signals thru).  But, Origin Live now has a neat mounting plate to allow for Rega's to be mounted to Technics with little modification...so there is hope on that front.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: lonewolfny42 on 29 Jun 2006, 07:19 am
Link for KAB... (http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/index.htm)...for those that may be wondering..."what's" KAB... :wink:
Hey PA....how's it going.... :thumb:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 11 Jul 2006, 04:09 pm
I own a VPI-HW 19 mkIII with a Sumiko Blue Point and the sound is glorious! I also tooled up my own record mat.

Here is a comment on vibrating motors. The belt needs to be cleaned with dishwashing detergent and water, rinsed clean and dried. Then the belt needs to be talced with powder. I would also clean the drive pulley on the motor with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Next take the platter and shaft out of the bearing well and clean and re-lubricate the shaft with 3-in-1 sewing machine oil.

For those of you that have a warble in your platter....remove the spindle and clean both tapered surfaces of the spindle and platter of any crap. to seat the spindle onto the platter perfectly, insert the spindle back into the platter loosely and then screw on the record clamp on the top side. The clamp will draw the spindle into the platter almost pertfectly. tighten it fairly snug, but don't jack-hammer it.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 11 Jul 2006, 05:27 pm
Wayner,

My motor is beyond a simpler belt cleaning/redressing or change out...the motor itself wobbles.  I find boiling the belt for just a few seconds shrinks it nicely and cleans it, too for further usage. But, thanks  :)

For the bearing well, VPI recommends Slick 50.  For a much purer form of PTFE teflon, I use Tufoil...it is truly wonderful stuff. You will ditch your Singer Sewing machine oil or other right quick when you hear the difference it makes.  The platter seemingly spins forever (sans belt) once lubed with it - friction against bearing walls is absolutely negligible using it.

To all about the platter - there is no perfect seating. No matter what you do to re-seat the platter, there will be some small 'movement' when viewed from the side...I was told by Mike at VPI this very small difference is not audible.

John / TCG

I own a VPI-HW 19 mkIII with a Sumiko Blue Point and the sound is glorious! I also tooled up my own record mat.

Here is a comment on vibrating motors. The belt needs to be cleaned with dishwashing detergent and water, rinsed clean and dried. Then the belt needs to be talced with powder. I would also clean the drive pulley on the motor with 99% isopropyl alcohol. Next take the platter and shaft out of the bearing well and clean and re-lubricate the shaft with 3-in-1 sewing machine oil.

For those of you that have a warble in your platter....remove the spindle and clean both tapered surfaces of the spindle and platter of any crap. to seat the spindle onto the platter perfectly, insert the spindle back into the platter loosely and then screw on the record clamp on the top side. The clamp will draw the spindle into the platter almost pertfectly. tighten it fairly snug, but don't jack-hammer it.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: BobM on 11 Jul 2006, 06:19 pm
I had a problem initially with my platter wobbeling. VPI suggested (aside from making sure everything was clean) to rotate the platter 90 degrees and try seating it again. Sometimes things just don't line up the way theya re supposed to. I had to do this 3 times before the wobble was gone.

I also found that a toothpick worked quite well chipping out a talc buildup in the motor spindle groove. Alcohol alone wouldn't clean it out.

Enjoy,
Bob
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 14 Jul 2006, 08:32 pm
I want to thank The Chair Guy (John) for his nice suggestion of Slick 50 on the turntable platter shaft! It is now on all of my turntables (4). I am an old fart and I wasn't warm to the suggestion, but I got rid of the old EGO thing and went down town to find some. I think I bought enough for 10,000 turntables but it was on sale for 12 bucks. When I put the stuff on, the viscosity of it made me wonder if I just should put it in my truck engine insted, but I did it and the results are not what I expected. A more silent background is what I heard. The wife even made a comment....now that's sayin' something! I wonder if this would be good stuff to put on a AR tonearm shaft? I do use Dow Corning 1000 stroke for that because it is a co-polymer and I am suspecious that Slick 50 may be as well. Thanks again!
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 16 Jul 2006, 03:08 am
I want to thank The Chair Guy (John) for his nice suggestion of Slick 50 on the turntable platter shaft! It is now on all of my turntables (4). I am an old fart and I wasn't warm to the suggestion, but I got rid of the old EGO thing and went down town to find some. I think I bought enough for 10,000 turntables but it was on sale for 12 bucks. When I put the stuff on, the viscosity of it made me wonder if I just should put it in my truck engine insted, but I did it and the results are not what I expected. A more silent background is what I heard. The wife even made a comment....now that's sayin' something! I wonder if this would be good stuff to put on a AR tonearm shaft? I do use Dow Corning 1000 stroke for that because it is a co-polymer and I am suspecious that Slick 50 may be as well. Thanks again!

Cool Wayner - u r welcome  :)

The cheaper the bearing, the better Tufoil will work.  I was simply miraculous on my old Thorens TD-316, and merely excellent on the VPI HW-19 III.  The background noise was considerably less in both instances.   Slick 50 is a less pure, more heavily advertised substance that's not quite as good (pure).  It's still better than most other oils you can use in there (including Singer Sewing machine oil, Marvel Mystery Oil tried)

Quote from: Tufoil
Several years ago, the Guinness Book of World Records chose Tufoil as "The World's Most Efficient Lubricant." (We didn't pay them to do that.) We are the ONLY engine treatment in the Guinness Book (even today). So, far, no one has been able to break that record!

Tufoil was tested by the United States Government at their federal laboratory (The National Bureau of Standards, now known as NIST) and passed with flying colors. As a matter of fact, it was here that we discovered that Tufoil has a surface friction so low that it makes Tufoil the most slippery substance known to man.

I can't find Tufoil locally....I haven't found it locally since 1992 or when I lived in Long Island.  I've been mail ordering it for years now.

My JVC direct driver had a simple bearing located well away from the tonearm and I squeezed a little Tufoil in there....a fantastic upgrade; simply stunning difference in performance on the JVC afterwards.  Tho I looked at my Rega 250 arm a few times, I couldn't find out where to squeeze some in to reach the bearing.  I have little doubt that it would improve upon a stainless steel ball against some aluminum or steel surface in their bottom-of-the-line arm, as well, if I could find where it goes. 

The 96% that's left will work great in your (car / truck) vehicle.....just add to crankcase after your next oil change.  If you have a late model car, you will experience very little mileage betterment or power...but your engine will run considerably cooler at any time of the year.  If you have an older car, you may experience better mileage and power gains....as well as run cooler.  I think tolerences are tighter nowadays in the piston/cylinder walls and many cars have various piston surfacing to reduce friction already...but many don't.

Tufoil is the the gift that just keeps giving I've found....it's particularly friendly to vinylphiles with older cars  :)

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: creativepart on 29 Aug 2006, 06:17 pm
Hello, I haven't posted to this board and quite a while, but I've read this thread and wanted to add a good VPI HW-19 tweak.

One of the most important tweaks has been what is called a DIY SAMA. Now, with a SAMA, you are buying a new motor from VPI that has been re-engineered into a stand alone device that is placed under the plinth (the original motor is removed) so that the motor is no longer sending vibrations into the TT frame.

You can achieve the same isolation technique by separating the plinth from the frame. This leaves the motor attached to the frame of the TT but since the plinth isn't touching the frame anywhere you have achieved the same result as buying a SAMA.

All you need is to rig a method of supporting the plinth from the table top.

I use 3 pipe/washer/sorbathan pucks to do the job on my VPI HW-19 MKIII. Simply measure the effective height of the frame, legs and springs (or whatever) and then start looking for ways to create a freestanding device that will raise the plinth the same amount about your tabletop.

Here's some photos of my DIY SAMA

(http://www.creativepart.com/ebay/vpi/diy-parts.jpg)
Here are the necessary parts 2" reducing coupler and 2" coupling sleeve and a 1.75" washer. (all the plumbing parts say 1.5" on them but they are 2" inside diameter each) That black part is the sorbothane puck that VPI replaces the springs with now.

(http://www.creativepart.com/ebay/vpi/DIY1.jpg)
The reducing coupler just rests in the sleeve and the washer just rests in the reducer. These could be silicone glued together for more isolation between the parts. There are not threads inside the sleeve. The washer was only necessary to make the total height the proper 3.75".

(http://www.creativepart.com/ebay/vpi/DIY2.jpg)
Here's the finished DIY part with the sorbothane puck installed. The massive weight of the HW19 plinth and platter (nearly 40 lbs for the MK III that I have) keep it all together.

 I put three of these under my plinth (four seemed to be too crowded) and it supports the plinth at just the right height for the motor pully to line up at the stock height. And the result is an improvement in overall sound. I'd say it's faster and with greater overall balance and clarity. You can put your hand on the base and feel slight motor vibration. But you can't feel any vibration on the plinth. And you have the stock VPI sorbothane suspension just like normal too.

Total parts cost? $5.14. We'll worth trying.

Other DIY SAMA's I've heard of... Campbell soup cans (full) and stacked rolls of white athletic tape. Really anything that stands 3.75" approx tall and has some dampening will work.

Paul Green
PS. I have also purchased the SDS power unit used on Audiogon and this makes a great change for the better as well. I recommend buying an SDS someday too.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 30 Aug 2006, 01:26 am
Awesome cheap tweek, Paul/creativepart! Love the pics, too.

I've got a shot motor, so my choices are limited to a replacement $180.00 motor of whole hog $400.00 SAMA.

My likely order of upgarde will be....

1.  SAMA (and ditch the wood surround frame and prop them up on those Campbell Soup cans filled with lead shot and a sorbothane 'pud' on top)

2.  VTAF (by Pete Riggle).  A great upgrade, I understand, for Rega owners

3.  SDS

4.  ???? Maybe nothing, but there is always something.... :thumb:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wardsweb on 30 Aug 2006, 02:51 am
Awesome cheap tweek, Paul/creativepart! Love the pics, too.

I've got a shot motor, so my choices are limited to a replacement $180.00 motor of whole hog $400.00 SAMA.

Does your table have a motor made by HURST (3203-001)?  If so, it's embossed on the bottom cover of the motor. I have one sitting on my work bench. It was going to be part of a DIY table that I never built.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 30 Aug 2006, 03:48 am
Wardweb,

I disassembled the TT just now...that's the same one that's in there now (Model PB, 600rpm, P/N 3203-001).

You thinking of selling it...do you know if it works? I already got a shot one, I want one that works  :wink:

PM me, if you'd like to.

Thanks, John / TCG
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wardsweb on 31 Aug 2006, 01:38 am
Wardweb,

I disassembled the TT just now...that's the same one that's in there now (Model PB, 600rpm, P/N 3203-001).

You thinking of selling it...do you know if it works? I already got a shot one, I want one that works  :wink:

PM me, if you'd like to.

Thanks, John / TCG

John pics of eveything and the motor running sent in PM. Got a VPI bearing assembly if you need one.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 31 Aug 2006, 02:47 am
Thanks wardsweb...have answered your PM.  Will take the whole she-bang on the motor.

I have a good bearing (I take it you mean main bearing for the spindle/platter?) assembly...the heavy platter spins and spins disconnected from the belt now using Tufoil lubricant.   
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wardsweb on 31 Aug 2006, 03:14 am
...the heavy platter spins and spins disconnected from the belt now using Tufoil lubricant.   

Are you talking about the engine treatment? You just use it straight out of the bottle? Wondering because they make one for cars, motorcycles, handy oiler, etc...
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 31 Aug 2006, 01:50 pm
Are you talking about the engine treatment? You just use it straight out of the bottle? Wondering because they make one for cars, motorcycles, handy oiler, etc...

The very same, wardsweb  :wink:  It's been used now on three turntables quite successfully...a layer of rumble that you don't think could be removed suddenly is...leaving you with more music.    VPI themselves recommends using Slick 50 for spindle oil (I think it's even in the HW-19 manual I have), but Tufoil is a much purer formulation of PTFE teflon lubricant.  What makes the worlds most efficient lubricant (Guinness Book of Records) excellent for your Mazda Miata and Suzuki (I read your web page  :wink:) is amazing for your spindle bearing. It'll never go to waste either...just use the balance in your crankcase after your next oil change and reduce engine operating temps (I can't verify and increase in power or fuel numbers...but the engine operating temps are easy to track using your dashboard guage).

http://www.tufoil.com/

The effect on my VPI was good (as it probably has a pretty good/fine/high tolerance bearing/spindle assembly), but the difference on my $50 JVC DD table I picked up on ebay a while back and my old Thorens TD-316 was actually a goosebump kinda' difference in musical pleasure.  If you can find your arm bearing on your Rega 250 tonearm...a squirt there might improve things rather dramatically, too. If you do find it, let me know where the heck I can find it on my 250  :scratch: It was easy to find on the $50 JVC tonearm (it was far away from the arm assembly underneath the table), but the difference was likewise goosebump city after the application of Tufoil to it (not quite the improvement as in the spindle bearing, but nonetheless an superlative improvement).

See here, http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22938.0, for my $50 JVC on ebay odyssey a year ago.

$15 in Tufoil goes a long way in improving vinyl performance and your enjoyment thereof.

I PayPal'ed you on the VPI motor...many thanks, John.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wardsweb on 31 Aug 2006, 04:46 pm
Thanks John- I'll have to get me some Tufoil.

I will get the parts boxed up and sent out first of the week. I'm headed out of town for the long weekend with my wife for our anniversary. I'll send you the tracking number when I get it.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 1 Sep 2006, 02:04 am
Thanks John- I'll have to get me some Tufoil.

I will get the parts boxed up and sent out first of the week. I'm headed out of town for the long weekend with my wife for our anniversary. I'll send you the tracking number when I get it.

A-okay, Luther.  I'm away, out of the US, from Friday nite thru Thursday, anyhow (as mentioned previously).

Try the Tufoil...I've probably turned 3-4 (known) folks on to it and they all raved about it. It's slick - literally and figuratively.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: creativepart on 12 Sep 2006, 03:37 am
I built a different DIY SAMA this past weekend with $8 worth of stuff from Home Depot. I thought you might like to see this. It's something to try with  your new motor.

(http://www.tdpri.com/gifs/DIY_SAMA.jpg)
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 14 Sep 2006, 12:28 am
Nice, creativepart...I just got my motor in the other day (thank you Luther/wardweb...fantastic overkill pack job, too!)

I got to work on my version of the SAMA.

Originally, I received my VPI a few months ago and it looked like this (former owner picture):
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7422)

Tho it wasn't the butt ugliest table out there....I just didn't love that wood/oak surround.  I also knew that it must be more prone to stored energy than the acrylic and stainless steel plinth...eventually, I'd ditch it to make it more modern looking (and perhaps sounding).  With it would go the springs...easy to do when you hook up a stand-alone-motor assembly on a VPI HW-19 series table.

Last night I built my 'new' VPI....
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7427)
The pillar/leg supports with about 6 lbs of #8 lead shot inside each.  Formerly (organic) 'Fresh from the Field' pea cans  :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7423)
The top most motor pod.  Formerly my cat's Wellness-brand individual serve can

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7425)
Motor pod, bottom showing the bolts/nuts holding it down

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7426)
Motor pod with electrical taped bottom ballast (filled with 3.5 lbs lead shot)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7424)
Motor pod filled with 1.5lb lead shot and bottom ballast attached.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7421)
It ultimately needed two ballast units and the motor pod to be the same height as the pillar/let supports.  The 3 pc motor unit, filled with shot and the motor itself, weighs 10 lbs  :) It ain't going too far. That's Plast-i-Clay on the bottom...tightens things up nicely.

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7420)
The final look of the new set-up




Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: WEEZ on 14 Sep 2006, 01:24 am
I sure hope it sounds good, 'cause it looks sort of...well, um...ahhh.....

....like I said, I hope it sounds good...

WEEZ (who's always been fond of turntables with wood bases!)
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 14 Sep 2006, 03:52 am
It looks like a Basis table now, actually.

It's better looking than my last table, the ebay cheapie with 10 lbs of Plast-i-Clay gobbed all over it, I assure you :)

It looks better than the shots indicate.....you're just seeing the underside....never the prettiest place to show on a TT.

Besides, she has a nice personality  :wink:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: creativepart on 14 Sep 2006, 04:04 am
I think I've found that the VPI sounds better in my setup with the DIY SAMA motor and the TT resting in it's base with the stock sorbothan pucks. Better that is, than it used to sound with the plinth supported by the individual "canisters." But you my be on to something. I don't know.

I really would like to try the springs suspension with the DIY SAMA. I'll need to get some.

Have Fun.
Paul green
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 14 Sep 2006, 04:36 am
I think I've found that the VPI sounds better in my setup with the DIY SAMA motor and the TT resting in it's base with the stock sorbothan pucks. Better that is, than it used to sound with the plinth supported by the individual "canisters." But you my be on to something. I don't know.

I really would like to try the springs suspension with the DIY SAMA. I'll need to get some.

Have Fun.
Paul green

Paul/creativepart,

Forgot to mention, and did not show up in pics, is that on top of my pillars/support legs, now filled with lead shot, are 4 squishy little absorptive 'puds' that I have around from LAT International.  They are called Vibra Killers and they are the most effective vibration killing products I've ever used.

http://www.latinternational.com/index.php/product/vibra-killers.html

You can't see them, but they are there, under the plinth and on top of each pillar/leg. I coulda' sworn the ones I bought supported up to 12 lbs each...these say only 7 lbs. If only 7 lbs each, they are probably not as effective as they could be as they are overtaxed right now.  I've tried sorbothane in the past (don't know if there is differnt formulations now) and found it to be far less effective than these little VibraKillers in a variety of instances.

Tapping with the top of the plinth anywhere or the wood shelf it sits on renders nothing noticed in term sof feedback.....so, I'm on to something  :wink: Or, maybe I'm on something  :scratch:

I need to change my belt, it's loose, and I think the erratic speed is more noticeable now that the noise floor has dropped with the DIY SAMA

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wardsweb on 16 Sep 2006, 03:24 am
So you fired that puppy up yet? What do you think?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 18 Sep 2006, 06:40 pm
So you fired that puppy up yet? What do you think?

Yeah, but I left the next day for 8 days of business and pleasure away from home.  Not much time to review it initially.

So, further review of it will happen next week.  I also ordered a new belt as it seemed really flaccid  :wink: and a new one will surely help matters.

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 23 Sep 2006, 01:08 am
Alllright, put on the new belt (and talc as recommended by VPI) today and fired 'er up.

The noise floor really is lower now with the DIY SAMA...and it sounds a bit more solid due to new belt (old belt likely to have added speed fluctuations to the proceedings).

I like lots of what is going on...but I'm going to swap out cartridges some day soon (I have Ortofon X5-MC and AT440ml as backups ) to see if that's what's keeping me from really jumping with joy when its playing.

My previous JVC DD cheapie, with 9 lbs of mortite in and out, sounded more solid...perhaps a function of superior speed control of Direct Drive (JVC's version of it, at least).  My fave cartridge on that table was the redoubtably excellent value AT440ml to these ears.

Still, it's easier to listen long term to then any CD player I've heard or owned.

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: creativepart on 23 Sep 2006, 03:12 am
Try that AT cart. It is supposed to be a real sleeper.

I've been experimenting with lots of different carts, some of them really highly regarded (Shelter 501 II and others). But put a 20+ year old AT MM cart on my VPI  a couple of weeks ago and I'm loving the sound. Really, you can pick up these 1980's ATs on Ebay for $45 and they smoke today's $800 carts. Think about it. Some of the best cartridge designs were coming out at the end of the vinyl lifecycle before CDs. And, once LPs took off again, where do you think everyone started from with their new audiophile cartridges -- from the best designs of 1983 or so. All these new cartridge companies certainly didn't start from scratch.

I like my VPI on the stock base with sorbothane puck suspension and the DIY SAMA of course. So you might try yours back on the base.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 24 Sep 2006, 08:01 pm
Well, as I ponder my next move....I thought back to earlier experimentation last year with the JVC DD cheapie that brought me back to vinyl.

First thing this morning, I completely re-leveled my setup (since install of the DIY SAMA).  It was indeed out of whack...and things improved afterwards.  Funny, I found little differece at all with the direct driver level or not....belt actuated drive needs to be absolutely level while direct drive does not (?)

In fact, levelling (with bubble level) was found to be more overall effective in improving the sound than any combination of ultra fine adjustments to VTA, VTF, azimuth, tracking force or any combination of clamps or mats I've tried on my old Thorens TD-316 or this VPI HW-19 Mark III.  Again, on the JVC direct driver, it didn't improve things notably at all (possibly only a smidge).

After achieving some betterment by levelling the rig, I still was finding some sibilance from the rig with the VDH re-tipped Sumiko Blue Point that I have it attached to. I remember similar sibilance on the JVC last year (which I attributed to it's cheap design), but it went 'bye-bye' after I rigged up a damping trough (with a semi-circle of aluminum foil in front of the arm pillar/post)) with 10,000 cst silicone bath and an outrigger made of a snip of paper clip.  There was no better tweak I did than that one....bass tightened up notably (better damped), imaging fell into place, instruments took on greater space, clicks and pops were reduced in volume, it helped it track better (I don't remember one glitch on even records that had them previously after the install of the trough/paddle :drums:), it offered up a much lower noise floor (improving dynamics along the way),  highs were more extended (or sounded better, at least) and it removed the upper midrange glare that I had attributed to cartridge and or rig and or cheap arm and or........whatever (you know the audiophool game  :wink:) 

Frankly, nearly every weakness you attribute to vinyl in the debate with digital technologies was improved.  It sounded more 'digital' with the organic sonic virtues of vinyl still in tact.

It was pretty much the full monty upgrade...greater perceived improvement than 9 lbs of mortite inside and out, the van Alstine Longhorn mod, any platter mat I settled upon eventually, any clamp, any arm geometry I twiddled with - and doing all of the above did indeed help matters.  Guys like Max Townshend (of the 'Rock' TT fame) and Kevin Barrett of KAB (and SME and Eminent Technology, of course) that keep spouting the virtues of damped arms ain't joshing, folks, it's the real deal upgrade :)  Among or intertwined with the benefits was that it made any arm work with any cartridge, practically.  The AT440ML and the Ortofon X5-MC both benefitted equally and likewise made them sound more similar (better) yet differences were perceived more readily.

Soooo, ever the tweeker, I rigged a new trough and paddle from a a cut bottom of a flat plastic bottle and another paper clip snip.   This time I mounted it in back of the arm pillar; between the arm pillar/post and counterweight.  It was just easier to install there - much easier. (the snip was adhered to the arm with a small dot of Plast-i-Clay) and, of course, Vertical Tracking Force was re-set afterwards.

I'm listening to it now.  Despite only filling maybe a 1/5 of the trough with 10000 cst silicone, and the balance with 1000 cst that I had around, the benefits were profound and immediately noted: bass tightened up notably (better damped), clicks and pops were reduced in volume, imaging fell into place, instruments took on greater space, it helped it track better (I don't remember one 'glitch' on even records that had them previously after the install of the trough/paddle), it offered up a much lower noise floor (improving dynamics along the way),  highs were more extended (or sounded better, at least) and it removed the upper midrange glare.  All for $10.00 (the cost of a syringe of the silicone from TurnTableBasics.com)  :) 

I think greater benefit may be had as far forward on the arm as you can (ideally, Townshend's Rock tables have a silicone bath and paddle attached to the headshell...and produced the most fantastic bass I've ever heard on a TT when I owned one in 1987-1988).  But, installing it anywhere seems to be of benefit. I'm going to buy more 10000 cst and also 20000 cst silicone to see if this further improves matters....but I am now a HUGE believer in damped arms....no matter how good or expensive they are or what cartridge you have on them.

I'll take a couple pics to show everyone....but it's a tweek all of you can do and it will improve your vinyl listening sessions quite measurably for measly kinda' money. 

UPDATE: I forgot which one of you turned me on to Tower Hobbies (many thanks!), but I just bought some silicone there.  I ended up buying 30000 and 50000 cst weights as I noticed SME recommends 30000 cst and KAB supplies 60000 cst with their custom damping trough for the SL1200.  With 1000 cst already here, I can customize until I get the right damping needed from 1 - 50000, but I'll likely settle in at 30 or 50000 to just streamline things.  Best of all, it's twice as much in each bottle (vs. TurntableBasics; Tim is a nice fella' btw, I buy my record sleeves from him) for 75% of the cost and it ships from nearby Reno, NV for only $3.99 us Left Coasters  :)

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0097P
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 25 Sep 2006, 12:34 am
Pics....that's the bottom of either a water bottle (Fiji Water, I think) or a bottle of auto water remover (isopropyl alcohol) as the tray, a snip of a paper clip sized to reach into the trough, and some rug underlay grippy stuff to keep it from moving.  You can't even see it facing the table...it's all but invisible to the eye, but quite noticeable to the ear  :thumb:

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7520)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7521)

(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=7522)

The counterweight has a penny taped to it as the arm / counterweight didn't support the fairly heavy Sumiko cartridge festooned with the van Alstine Longhorn outrigger (in case you were wondering what that copper colored thing is on the back of the counterweight :))

And the white tape is teflon plumbers tape (maybe $4.00 at the hardware store in town); it did a so-so job of damping the arm tube and counterweight...but it's far outshined in value by the damping trough.  So, I may remove it in the future. 

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 26 Sep 2006, 04:03 pm
I have a few questions. I have a hw-19 jr for 16 years now and it is still running like new.
1) I have never changed the oil on the bearing - shame on me. How do you do it, how much oil do you put back in?
2) I have a grado Platinum ref. on a Sumiko Premier FT-3 arm. There is a place to put silicone but I have
never used it. Would the Grado benefit from using dampening this way?

I have made a DIY sama and sandbox. The two working together really made a large diff in sound, the backgroung it really quiet.

John
 
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 26 Sep 2006, 04:45 pm
Hey John,

Welcome to AC...and the Vinyl Circle, in particular.

Pull out all that gunk in your bearing well with isopropyl alcohol and a long qtip (Radio Shack sells them with long wood handles and lintless for cheap).  Then fill it until it spills over when you re-insert the platter spindle into it...and sop off the extra that pools on top. You don't need much - a good TT like the VPI has pretty close tolerances inside, so there is not a whoe lotta' room to put oil in there.

Tufoil (about $15 online) is the best I've ever used in the bearing...it's super slick nature reduces a whole layer of grunge you never knew existed.  There are less expensive alternatives, and easier to find ones, but that's the best that I've found.

Grado's, I have heard and read, benefit rather dramatically to silicone damping.  Harry Weisfeld, Mr. VPI, recommends adding silicone to his JMW arms that offer them....

<< Fluid damping is available for cartridges that require it (Grado, Clearaudio)>>
http://www.vpiindustries.com/jmw10_5.htm

John/TCG

I have a few questions. I have a hw-19 jr for 16 years now and it is still running like new.
1) I have never changed the oil on the bearing - shame on me. How do you do it, how much oil do you put back in?
2) I have a grado Platinum ref. on a Sumiko Premier FT-3 arm. There is a place to put silicone but I have
never used it. Would the Grado benefit from using dampening this way?

I have made a DIY sama and sandbox. The two working together really made a large diff in sound, the backgroung it really quiet.

John
 
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Listens2tubes on 26 Sep 2006, 11:38 pm
MAN! Now your tweakin'!  :D I love this stuff :thumb: Can you give us a link for Tower that shows the silicone dampning solutions?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 27 Sep 2006, 02:33 am
L2T,

Weird, that link I did yesterday worked yesterday....hmmmmmmm.

Try this, go to www.towerhobbies.com

Type in 'silicone' as your search.  Then choose 'Mugen' as your manufacturer. It should take you to a page with 10 or so different viscosities of silicone to choose from from Mugen. I bought 30 and 50,000 cst as it seems to be most recommended.

I'm in California - it'll never go to waste.  I'll just give some to the neighbors wives if their tops get saggy  :lol:

MAN! Now your tweakin'!  :D I love this stuff :thumb: Can you give us a link for Tower that shows the silicone dampning solutions?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 28 Sep 2006, 06:18 pm
 The Tufoil website has a bunch of diff. treatments. That on do you use, engine, motorcycle?
My bearing is not completely sealed on the bottom. While it doesn't drip anything I did set the plinth on a pillow and it left a red stain. Will the Tufoil leak out?

 What are the thoughts on the Mark3 vs the scout platter as an upgrade?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 28 Sep 2006, 06:32 pm
Yeah, it'll leak...but I suspect any liquid would.  You have a VPI HW-19 or something else...my bearing well is definitely sealed it seems. Nothing leaks now in use.

I think the Scout platter is $300.00 upgrade.  It's no heavier, but quieter due to the invenrted bearing.  But, the Tufoil probably takes care of a lot of that chatter/rumble from standard Mark III bearing. So, I think that's mostly $300.00 wasted.

The step to $600.00 or $700.00 for the heavier platter of the Mark IV would seem to bring more pleasure for the money.  I'm not sure if that platter then allows you to use VPI's ring clamp or not...can't quite figure that out.

Then again, for $999.00 (or $899.00 at Elusive Disc) you can get SDS speed control that would help the overall presenatation, too.

So many options...all you need is mucho dinero.

 

The Tufoil website has a bunch of diff. treatments. That on do you use, engine, motorcycle?
My bearing is not completely sealed on the bottom. While it doesn't drip anything I did set the plinth on a pillow and it left a red stain. Will the Tufoil leak out?

 What are the thoughts on the Mark3 vs the scout platter as an upgrade?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 28 Sep 2006, 06:38 pm
ooops, sorry, didn't answer your other question.

I have been buying this one since 1990 for my cars:

http://www.tufoil.com/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi?preadd=action&key=CARS8OZ&reference=/cgi-bin/shopper.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dall%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3Dconsumer/SearchResult.html%26category%3DCARS

I don't know what's different about them vs. marine/motorcycle/industrial use.  I'd guess they are all about the same and differnt only in container sizes (smallest for Motorcycle, largest for industrial).  You pay less per oz as you buy more ounces....as old a marketing concept as there ever was  :)
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 28 Sep 2006, 08:47 pm
Jpv,

I think the Tufoil is a copolymer which likes to creep and bond with its self and everything else. If you spill a drop, the next day the drop is the size of a silver dollar.

W
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 28 Sep 2006, 11:59 pm
CG,
   I have a HW-19 Jr. The bottom of the well the bearing goes into looks like it is plastic. The oil in there now doesn't leak out now.
I don't know what they used back then but I was told by VPI to replace it with Lithium grease.
 I have the std platter to the jr and was wondering if the mk3 or the scout platter was the best upgrade. I have the VPI PLC
John
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 29 Sep 2006, 12:27 am
Here are three photos of my DIY sama and sand box. It's really easy to make and its cheap. I kept the wood base and put on tip toes the raise the height. The puck sit in some PVC filled with sand. The PCV was screwed down to the wood platform to keep them in place. The two PVC parts are threaded so I can level the plinth.  This is by far the best mod I have done .
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/jpv1988/3cd55642.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/jpv1988/c21479fd.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e43/jpv1988/100_2191.jpg)
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 29 Sep 2006, 05:34 am
jpv,

My HW-19 manual (next to last page, I think) states 40 weight motor oil, Slick 50 preferred, as the choice in the bearing well and for the motor (a drop in the shaft) to keep it well lubricated.  No mention of lithium grease. 

My preference is Tufoil...VPI may not know of them and recommended the more commercialized Slick 50 stuff. I've been told that Slick 50 is not as slippery as Tufoil and also that part of Prolong's (andother better distributed, more commercialized formulation is actually purchased from Tufoil (no basis in fact to my knowledge, just rumor).   
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 20 Oct 2006, 02:10 am
Chairguy,
  I just found the manual for my HW-19 jr. They said in it they used Molybdenum sulfite grease in the well.
Will the Tufoil/slick 50 be OK to use as a substitute? I have never change the grease in it - bad me.
JPV
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 20 Oct 2006, 03:14 am
Chairguy,
  I just found the manual for my HW-19 jr. They said in it they used Molybdenum sulfite grease in the well.
Will the Tufoil/slick 50 be OK to use as a substitute? I have never change the grease in it - bad me.
JPV

Interesting....my manual for the HW-19 Mk. III is brand new....VPI was kind enough to send me one (gratis - great customer service!) and it makes mention of Tufoil, in particular.  Are the bearing assemblies in the two models different, or the same :?:....I'm not that familiar with the Jr. model.

Nonetheless, I can't imagine that Tufoil would harm it any....it's just super slippery stuff that reduces friction - something every TT owner wants more (or less) of  :) .  The difference is often astounding - depending on make and what you had in there to begin with. An inky black silence oftens occurs afterwards.

Slick 50 is NOT Tufoil, however.  I've use both in my car's crankcase.  I noticed little or no benefit to Slick 50 in either gas mileage, engine responsiveness or operating temps (via dashboard gauge), but notice EACH time benefits when using Tufoil (in 3 cars now over 15 years).  Mileage increases about 5%, engine is truly a bit livelier (turbocharged in particular as with my SAAB 9-3) and operating temps are lower.  These three differences tell me Tufoil really does reduce, dramatically, friction while Slick 50 is kinda' marginal.

Nonetheless, our own Wayner, claims great benefit from Slick 50...who am I to argue?  I just can't vouch for it myself...I CAN wholeheartedly vouch for Tufoil, however  :thumb: 

I think if that table is more than a few years old, and you've spun quite few records, any change of lubrication of an slippery sort might be an upgrade.
 
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 20 Oct 2006, 11:52 am
I like Slick 50. I do not know where to get Tufoil, if TCG knows, give it up! The Slick 50 indorsement is due to the fact that it beat hands down 3-in-one oil that I was using before Slick 50 was suggested. It is some slippery stuff!  aa

Wayner
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 20 Oct 2006, 01:08 pm
I haven't seen Tufoil in a store for 10+ years now....it's fairly widely available online, tho.  From the manufacturer, it's about $17.00 delivered with shipping.

http://www.tufoil.com/consumer/buynow.html

How much additional benefit you'll received by going to Tufoil from Slick 50 may or may not be sizable....as earlier mentioned, the difference is noticed in my vehicles (incidentally, ditto for 'Prolong' and 'Greased Lighting' - they are simply not the same as Tufoil)  :thumb:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: BobM on 20 Oct 2006, 02:49 pm
Slightly different direction - but I have a MK III platter on my DIY Aries clone. I would certainly like to upgrade to a MK IV if the sonic difference is noticeable, and not just a pretty picture of a massive platter.

I understand the new platters with the inverted bearing are definitely better, but fairly costly too.

Is a move to a MK IV worth it, or should I just go for the new platter and bearing. Any used ones for sale anywhere.

Thanks,
Bob
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 20 Oct 2006, 04:39 pm
Beats me, Bob....an SDS speed controller is about the same price as going to the heavier Mark IV platter with inverted bearing.....and thicker armboard (to compensate for the thicker platter).  You're talking $2000.00 new for all...gulp.

Gotta' tell you - I have a $50 JVC direct driver with 10 lbs of Plast-i-Clay (sorbothane mat, home brew silicone damping trough, and a layer of SoundCoat damping compound on the underside of the platter) that currently outperforms my VPI HW-19 Mark III.

I have another ebay score of a higher line JVC direct driver coming in this week (paid $100 - teehee)....with a larger, heavier platter, and better tonearm with built in adjustable oil damping just to see how far a direct driver can go.

My own opinion (let's not wade too far into controversy fella's - I'm just stating my humble opinion based on experience :|) is that at under $1000.00 a big quality JVC, Denon or Technics deck can't be beat by belt drivers of similar money.  But with tight speed control, tighter tolerance main bearing and arms (as well as more rigid carbon and magnesium designs), better tonearm/lead wiring (especially one length from cartridge clips to rca leads like on the Rega's) and mass loading (10 lb + platters)...a belt driver is better, overall, as it's motor is inherently not intimately connected with the platter by anything but a belt (or thread). But, it takes somewhere around $2000.00+ to better a very good direct driver...but it CAN be done at that level of expenditure.

For new tables...the Technics SL-1210M5G with all the KAB upgrades would seem to be the best performing value TT on the market, most things considered, under $2000.00 or so. I just hate manual tables, myself  :( 

The Music Hall MMF-9, with added speed controller, would seem (on paper, at least) to be the near equal of it in superior belt drive configuration...but at close $2000.00 new.  It's got an inverted ceramic main bearing, heavy platter, de-coupled 50Hz motor and a heavy platter with a carbon fibre arm.  It's $1700 with hi output Goldring cartridge mounted and aligned already on it - outboard speed control is another couple hundred. The VPI Scout is probably a close second to that one in value - but outboard speed control is $1000.00 for it. They may well be better than the Technics...but only with speed control.

I think the key difference is speed control.  If I was to upgrade the VPI (which is in doubt), I'd do the SDS first; heavier platter after.  Tufoil or similar slippery substance will bring you inverted bearing level of performance anyhow, or thereabouts, in terms of lower drag.

Did you use a VPI motor for your DIY Aries? Then do the SDS, first, and pur some Tufoil in that main bearing well for your next $1000.00 splurge.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: jpv on 20 Oct 2006, 11:57 pm
The bearing assenblys are the same for all hw-19's but mine is really old so it may be different or VPI just didn't use tufoil back then.

Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Psychicanimal on 21 Oct 2006, 04:49 pm
The Music Hall MMF-9, with added speed controller, would seem (on paper, at least) to be the near equal of it in superior belt drive configuration...but at close $2000.00 new.  It's got an inverted ceramic main bearing, heavy platter, de-coupled 50Hz motor and a heavy platter with a carbon fibre arm.  It's $1700 with hi output Goldring cartridge mounted and aligned already on it - outboard speed control is another couple hundred. The VPI Scout is probably a close second to that one in value - but outboard speed control is $1000.00 for it. They may well be better than the Technics...but only with speed control.

Read here, young padwan, and tell us which TTs Alex is speaking of in this thread! :duh:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1069168134& (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1069168134&)

You'll get there...some sunny day!!! :wink:
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 22 Oct 2006, 02:56 am
I'm pretty much there...but ya' can't reduce the fact that a motor sits right under the platter and arm in a direct drive.....versus semi-detached in a belt driver and therefore better isolated by design.  But it takes a lot of $$$ for a belt driver to overcome a direct drive unit, even fully tricked out, and that may be a place of rather diminishing returns.

I bought a new, higher line JVC turntable off of ebay the other day...with built-in oil adjustable oil damping (within the tonearm), a higher quality tonearm, a much heavier and larger diameter platter and better construction...with an FG Servo motor and all the goodies that Matshushita, Inc company can offer in direct drive. 

And with that I'm actually going to see how far the direct drive envelope can reach...stay tuned  :thumb:

By the way I implemented the SAMA this weekend to my VPI...set it up level, made sure all the cartridge geometries were right, completely cleaned out the main bearing well (I hadn't done that when bought) and added Tufoil back in.  Basically, everthing that can be done was to get the most out of this table. 

And....it still fell short of the (TCG modded) $50 ebay direct driver. Again, I think the difference is speed control...without it (VPI), the vitality and drive of the music is lost - it just kinda' plods along in comparison.  With it (the JVC and it's direct drive and FG Servo motor...with good isolation), the notes and music just leap out at you and small adjustments to platter mat, VTA, damping, vinyl quality are more noticeable.

Anyhow - that's my story and I'm sticking to it....a fairly inexpensive JVC direct driver (talk about cheap arm....it's barely a step up from plastic, btw; the new table has a better constructed arm a la the Technics 1200) that was maybe $200.00 new in 1980 properly implemented with internal damping, good feet, silicone bath beats a VPI table that was $1200 new circa 1995 or so. 

It's was certainly a revelatory finding to me - believe me, I went into it with objectivity in mind  :o 
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 22 Oct 2006, 12:07 pm
John, TCG,

Check out the latest edition of Steropile magazine. The Well Tempered turnatble and tone arm are discussed and the tone arm has a rigidly mounted paddle floating in a bath of "honey" like fluid!

You devil, you.  aa

W
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Psychicanimal on 22 Oct 2006, 03:34 pm
Again, I think the difference is speed control...without it (VPI), the vitality and drive of the music is lost - it just kinda' plods along in comparison.  With it (the JVC and it's direct drive and FG Servo motor...with good isolation), the notes and music just leap out at you and small adjustments to platter mat, VTA, damping, vinyl quality are more noticeable.

That's exactly where it's at--speed control/stylus drag.  Once you get a hold of a beefy surplus power supply from eBay you're going to go into warp drive.  With my KAB power supply any small change in AC/DC power cord, power filtration, cones, etc. can be clearly noticed.  I use cryo'ed power cords in my 1200's power supply.  When I switched from Kevin's 24ga DC cord to my homemade 18 ga solid core copper that was a MAJOR improvement.  The same went for Silclear silver paste.

My 1200 sits on a Moca wood board ( and Goldmund cones instead of stock feet ) with a 18" by 18" rubber/cork/rubber slab under.  You see those little 2" by 2" rubber/cork/rubber footers Mapleshade & others sell 4 for some $25 or so?  You can get the 18" x 18" I use for about $30.  This rubber/cork slab sits on a granite slab.  The whole thing is air suspended by three Dennensen air suspensions. Imagine... :scratch:


If you do your listening tests with virgin vinyl reissues of my music you're up for a real advanced lesson on stylus drag issues. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220032815316&rd=1&rd=1 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=220032815316&rd=1&rd=1)

This eBay seller carries them reissues at decent prices, packs well and is reliable.  :thumb:

http://stores.ebay.com/wdcdradio_Latin_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ12QQftidZ2QQtZkm (http://stores.ebay.com/wdcdradio_Latin_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ12QQftidZ2QQtZkm)

I highly recommend Ray Barreto, Willie Colón, Larry Harlow & the Palmieri brothers. :bowdown:




Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: mdelrossi on 27 Nov 2006, 09:19 pm
Hey All this looks like the place to be!
I purchased the VPI HW19 MK3 about 16 years ago, had a kid and put it away for 12 years.
I recently resurrected the table and started to play vinyl again.
Well not being one to leave well enough alone I decided to lubricate the spindle.
off comes the platter and spindle and in goes some lube (slick50)I put platter back on but it wasn't sitting quite right, So I pulled it off and out comes a bushing. :scratch:
I put the bushing back in but the platter seems to be binding. :(
I take out the bushing and now the tables speed is all over the place. :( :(
Did I speed up my upgrade to a new platter and inverted bearing? Or is there hope?
Addendum:
I put the bushing back and put in some Tufoil platter is taking forever to settle back in and doesn't seem to spin as freely as it did with slick50 :scratch:
thanks for your help
mdr
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 27 Nov 2006, 10:28 pm
I wouldn't play the table anymore until you get this resolved. I suggust that the bushing in the well has not seated properly and may have compressed maybe .0001" causing a bind between the plater shaft and the bushing. I suggest taking the shaft out again, hopefully the bushing will come back out with it. I hope, also, that the shaft hasn't been damaged by the friction fit. I'm not going to take mine apart, but I remember the bushing going into a "seat" in the shaft well and yours has not been put in the right place. If the bushing comes out with the shaft and the shaft is not damaged, use a light to see if you can find a machined area in the well where the bushing is to seat. If there is one push the bushing down until it goes into this seat. I don't recall this being a "split ring" bushing but it should be made of bronze and have a reddish color. The bushing shouldn't have come out with the platter shaft, but maybe it has dried out and got caught on the shaft. I don't think there is much tolerence between the ID of the bushing and the OD of the shaft.

If you decide to do this, let us know what you discover and maybe we can help get it put back together properly.

W
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: mdelrossi on 27 Nov 2006, 10:45 pm
Well I pulled it all apart, cleaned it and replaced the bushings, added tufoil and after a few tries I got the platter in far enough to to be able to play and all seems to be well. That Tufoil stuff takes along time to seep through the bearings, not a quick as Slick50, though I think it sounds a bit better.

By the way it seems my ball bearing is permanently attached to the spindle is that ok?
I guess I won't loose it :wink:
I have a question for you Tufoil people, is the stuff supposed to be kinda gloppy? It almost pours like molasses. I was concerned and called the company, and actually spoke to Frank Reick. Nice guy.
thanks for all of your help
mdr
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: Wayner on 27 Nov 2006, 10:50 pm
If I remember in mine, it was a little hemisphere machined into the bottom of the shaft.....can't say. It's been awhile since I've been in there.

It sounds like you have the problem solved.

W
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: creativepart on 27 Nov 2006, 11:40 pm
I think VPI changed the platter, bearing and shaft many, many times over the years. My platter shaft doesn't have a ball bearing. I guess you could call it a "hemisphere" but I'd say it's a rounded point machined onto the bottom of the shaft.

If my bearing has any brass or plastic thrust bearings inside it's news to me. I've never seem 'em.

My bearing does have a removable and adjustable plug in the bottom. I can change my VTA simply by screwing in the bottom of the bearing.

VPI sent me some "oil" that they recommend and a plastic syringe to inject the oil into the bearing -- I'm not sure why they'd send the syringe seeing that the oil bottle had a long pointed top to begin with. The oil they sent doesn't look that "special" to me. But what do I know.

Also, when I put the platter on my TT it sinks quickly to the bottom of the shaft. I've had other TTs that took hours to settle.

I like the TT the way it is, but I keep my eyes open for someone selling a Scout platter and bearing after they've upgraded their Scout. I've just missed two of them in the past. I may end up liking my current platter better, but I can always switch back if that's the case.

I did add a real honest to goodness SAMA which didn't improve anything over the DIY SAMA I had made. But it looks better. And I upgraded the RB300 Tonearm to an Origin Live Silver(!). All in all I'm very happy with everything about the VPI HW-19 MKIII.

Paul
PS. On a whim I bought a used Linn LP12 for really cheap. Just to check it out. It was fine, but not my overall cup o'tea. I bought it so cheap that I could sell it again for the same price I bought it for. So, it was a win-win. Now I can say I've owned a Thorens 165, a Rega P2, a Rega P25, a Linn Sondek LP12 AND a VPI HW-19 MKIII. The more I experience other tables the more I like the one I've kept.
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: tonyptony on 28 Nov 2006, 12:33 am
Paul, what was it that didn't float your boat about the LP12?
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: TheChairGuy on 20 Nov 2008, 01:48 am
I know this is topic is eons old, but worth updating with so many HW-19's out there...

My spindle was a bit canted to the side, not good for replay at all, so I asked VPI about replacements earlier this month.

They replied (they always reply, too - so great is their customer service) that for $100.00 (+$10.00 shipping) I was in for a treat as all the replacement spindle/bearings are now inverted (like the Scouts).  So it seems you need not spend $300 for a new spindle/bearing and platter now to derive the benefits of quieter play....$100.00 and use your own platter  :thumb:

Anyhow I got it yesterday and there was another surprise (for me, at least).  No oil.....it runs on white lithium grease.

I have not played the deck with it yet, merely installed it (a cinch) and I'm already impressed with how much smoother the platter seems to turn by eye (and less slop by feel).

So, I hope to set the old girl up in the next days and hear how it does  :guitar:

MY everyday is a direct drive today...but I'm completely agnostic to whatever drive mechanism it is.  I'm just looking to have more sonic thrills for my finite funds :)

John
Title: Re: The VPI HW-19 Mark III
Post by: fscl on 14 Oct 2015, 01:24 pm
Yes, know this is an old topic, however, it seems to perfectly address my current experiences...... :thumb:

First, RIP, TCG...... :cry:

Now the real question, was the solution to the motor vibes just a bunch of plasticine packing, SAMA and / or new motor....... :o :o  No other solutions using the existing motor / setup ...... :dunno:

The rest of the pages speak to lubrication of the platter bearing...... :?

Fred