STA 9 Fuse Upgrade

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RafaPolit

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #20 on: 10 Feb 2017, 10:33 pm »
I really believe there are things where effort goes a long way in making a better sound, but there is also so much 'audio voodoo' out there, that it gets really hard to decide where to really focus one's efforts (there's also a matter of budget, of course!).

But, for instance, this whole notion that a $300 USB cable is better somehow than a $3 cable, because by reducing the Jitter the DAC will have less effort in translating the audio, is, IMHO, nonsense.  Either the DAC gets the signal, or it doesn't.  Yes, it can get noisy signal, in which case it needs to work harder to 'decipher' the underlying code, sure... but once it does, its just 1 and 0s.  They should sound the same!

So I understand if, AFTER an AMP, the powered signal needs to go through a fuse, yes, that may affect things.  But if in the 1980s they figured out that by putting the fuse before the amp signal, as tells the story in your link, any manufacturer not doing that is simply not doing things right.  And if, after that, they are relying on $0.50 fuses, then we should not buy from that company.  If that is not the case, then changing the fuse should have as little effect as possible!

Lets try analogies, since you are using them.  If you buy a $10.000 car, maybe stock tires may work.  But if you buy a $80.000 Porsche, do you think it would be wise for them to ship with under-rated tires? No, they would ship it middle to high-end tires.  If NuPrime values the quality of their sound (obviously they do!), are you telling me that the sound can get twice as much 'transparency' or 'openness' by changing something as silly as a Fuse? Then someone at the factory should get fired, IMHO.

Then there are those that would charge you a kidney and a lounge for what costs them $3 to manufacture, just because it "audiophile grade".  Then if we buy that, we are the morons!

Have you done A-B tests? Blind tests? Or is this one of those: "I listened for a hundred hours with setup A, then changed to setup B, and after a 100 hours, I kept going back to wanting setup A".  Because if it is not side by side, the ears can hear whatever they want.  After 10 hours, a $30 Bluetooth speaker probably sounds to you the same as your $30.000 speakers with $20.000 amps.  So can anyone share facts before spending $300 o a fuse?

This is really the low point of being an Audiophile, and a part I don't enjoy one bit.  To have to be 24/7 'on guard' to filter the utter nonsense from the actual facts. :(

Rafa.

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #21 on: 10 Feb 2017, 11:00 pm »
What I discovered about fuses....

Even the cheap fuses will sound different when turned in an opposite direction... as long as each component in your system has been tested and are situated with the best orientation for their fuses. If half your system has its fuses oriented in the wrong direction?  Introducing a new kind of fuse in one component may not be that easy to discern.

Even the inexpensive OEM fuse will normally come with two different kinds of markings on its end caps.  One cap will give the rating.  The other cap will contain symbols, or something different than the rating.  So, the direction of the fuse can be determined that way.  I only found one fuse that was marked the same on both caps.  But, by listening after switching direction the correct orientation was easy enough to determine.   I simply marked one end with a magic marker on the casing, not the metal cap. That way, if the fuse were dropped you can know which end would be what.

When a piece of equipment is wired correctly at the power cord socket, it should be the same fuse direction orientation for each component.  Occasionally, one unit will not be wired correctly. That is why we should test for AC polarity for each audio component.  When all things are equal?  Then  the fuses can be in each component be turned the same, and turned around to see if there is a  difference in sound.   I found that all the fuses in your equipment must be matched with the same orientation.   

zwizardofoz

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #22 on: 11 Feb 2017, 01:14 am »
Better check all your resistors are around the right way too, and the windings in the transformers used are also going to matter too :duh: Where does it stop? Oh yes your house wiring also better be checked and your neighbors too while you are it in case that might be causing some veiling.

Seriously I would rather spend my hard earned money on supporting the artists I listen to than the tweaks market.

Enjoy the music   :D. Peace

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #23 on: 11 Feb 2017, 05:03 am »
Better check all your resistors are around the right way too, and the windings in the transformers used are also going to matter too :duh: Where does it stop? Oh yes your house wiring also better be checked and your neighbors too while you are it in case that might be causing some veiling.

Seriously I would rather spend my hard earned money on supporting the artists I listen to than the tweaks market.

Enjoy the music   :D. Peace

It stops when you stop caring...   If you think of your audio system as just another appliance?    Why bother? 

It begins when you realize how much potential there is.   And,  then never quitting in having an open mind...  willing to live and learn.   Not too proud to make an occasional mistake so you can discover what works better.  But?   If you see audio as a toaster oven?   It serves a simple purpose?    Then why bother to bother those who are seeking a higher standard?  Why do you want to be like a weight around their ankles?  Why even come here?  Really?   Were you expecting to find something that will make a difference?

rustydoglim

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #24 on: 18 Feb 2017, 05:32 pm »
As far as NuPrime is concern, we base our decision on science.

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #25 on: 18 Feb 2017, 06:41 pm »
As far as NuPrime is concern, we base our decision on science.


To be fair...   Its based upon "known" science. 

Fuses enter into a realm that no one has discovered how to measure for (other than ones ears).   All I know is that different fuses make what I hear to change what I hear.  And, the fuse directionality, even of the OEM fuses, make a difference.  What those who do hear these differences need to learn?  Is to let those who hear no difference to believe what they want to.  Its makes me sad how some feel on this matter. But,  not every system is the same which would allow to detect.  And, our DNA is different.  Not all can smell that aroma coming from the restaurant down the street.   Do we measure for it when we can smell it and others can not?   

To somehow measure scientifically for the aroma would only prove is that they are not sensitive to something they can not detect. Would that make their quality of life to be improved to be shown that something is really there, that they can not know is there?  To find out might help them to become better in being able to live and let live, and stop being hecklers.  But, proving it would not work to improve their experience otherwise.

Detecting fuse differences is not a life and death situation like color blind people needing to know their situation to work with traffic lights.   So?  Our ears tell us what science has yet been able to figure out how to measure. Live and let live!   You can't hear any difference with that audiophile power cord you bought?  Fine,  I'll buy it from you at half price after its starts collecting dust in your closet. ;)

Eisener Bart

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #26 on: 19 Mar 2017, 06:11 am »
 :D
« Last Edit: 19 Mar 2017, 05:51 pm by Eisener Bart »

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #27 on: 19 Mar 2017, 07:14 am »
If you guys are going to spend ridiculous money on fuse, I will look into upgrading the fuse, if that make sense. We don't see the science behind high end fuse, but willing to keep an open mind.

Just found this recently... from a manufacturer's blog. Interesting read... He faced the same dilemma.

http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/fuses/

christopher-h

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #28 on: 24 Sep 2017, 02:21 pm »
I purchased a Synergistic Black fuse for my STA-9.  Synergistic says that the fuse is directional.  What "direction" is the current flow in the fuse holder?

Thanks, Chris

Speedskater

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #29 on: 24 Sep 2017, 02:50 pm »
Just found this recently... from a manufacturer's blog. Interesting read... He faced the same dilemma.
http://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/fuses/
Note that the fuse was in the speaker output of a power amplifier. Not in the line voltage AC supply nor in the DC power circuit.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #30 on: 24 Sep 2017, 05:16 pm »
Rafa, I was a non believer in cables and fuses until I heard it for myself.

We did a shoot out of 4 usb cables with 6 people. We used 2 $600 cables (Wire World Platinum and a Lightspeed) a $120 Wire World Starlight Red and a cheap Pangea.  I can tell you that there were significant differences in sound that no one was expecting.  The Platinum sounded the best, very detailed with a bit of warmth and it was very liquid.  The WW Red was muddy and dark in comparison.  The Lightspeed was detailed but unbearably bright (which was surprising because the guy that owns the Lightspeed also owns the Platinum.  In his system the Lightspeed is not bright and he prefers it and I have heard it in his system).  The Pangea was the worst, very thin, tinny and bright sounding.  When  we added my Regen into the picture, it surprisingly made most of the cables sound similar except for the Pangea which still sounded awful.  The Platinum still sounded the best though.  My DAC is a $5000 Luxman.  If it was not for my Regen I would sell the WW Starlight Red and fork over the ridiculous amount of $600 for the WW Platinum. Clearly differences are system dependent and my system is very responsive to changes.

I was also skeptical about fuses.  I tried some AMR fuses in my Magnepans not expecting to hear a change.  Boy was I wrong.  They sounded bright.  I gave them to a friend to try in his Magnepans and he had the same experience.

I can't give you any explanation as to why they sounded different but it was not a placebo effect as the differences were not subtle and were readily apparent in the first 30 seconds of play.

I also have 4 different pairs of XLR cables and they all sound different.  Cardas Parsec- warm sounding, Bluejeans Cables-neutral to a bit bright with sibilants, AudioQuest Columbia 72v DBS- neutral sounding, no sibilants but slight decrease in bass.  Belden 8402-very clear and detailed, neutral with a hint of warmth, minimal sibilants.

Now on the other hand, I do have various RCA IC's that all sound very similar and I have not heard differences with power cables and speaker cables although I have not tried that many or very expensive cables.

Other parts that we have found to make a difference are capacitors.  I built a DIY Pass Labs preamp and there was a clear difference between the Clarity Caps and Obbligato Golds that I tried.  I ended up using the Clarity's for more defined  and powerful bass.  In addition, I had my BAT VK-51se preamp recapped with stock caps.  For the first 150 hours I regretted it because the sound was unbearably  bright until they broke in.

Armaegis

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #31 on: 24 Sep 2017, 05:17 pm »
I purchased a Synergistic Black fuse for my STA-9.  Synergistic says that the fuse is directional.  What "direction" is the current flow in the fuse holder?

Thanks, Chris

AC = alternating current, meaning it flows both ways

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #32 on: 24 Sep 2017, 05:29 pm »
AC = alternating current, meaning it flows both ways


Yes.... but there is something else at work here.  It can be heard, and demonstrated. 

If one is using a system that veils the sound?  Then who can know? 

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #33 on: 24 Sep 2017, 05:36 pm »
Rafa, I was a non believer in cables and fuses until I heard it for myself.

We did a shoot out of 4 usb cables with 6 people. We used 2 $600 cables (Wire World Platinum and a Lightspeed) a $120 Wire World Starlight Red and a cheap Pangea.  I can tell you that there were significant differences in sound that no one was expecting.  The Platinum sounded the best, very detailed with a bit of warmth and it was very liquid.  The WW Red was muddy and dark in comparison.  The Lightspeed was detailed but unbearably bright (which was surprising because the guy that owns the Lightspeed also owns the Platinum.  In his system the Lightspeed is not bright and he prefers it and I have heard it in his system).  The Pangea was the worst, very thin, tinny and bright sounding.  When  we added my Regen into the picture, it surprisingly made most of the cables sound similar except for the Pangea which still sounded awful.  The Platinum still sounded the best though.  My DAC is a $5000 Luxman.  If it was not for my Regen I would sell the WW Starlight Red and fork over the ridiculous amount of $600 for the WW Platinum. Clearly differences are system dependent and my system is very responsive to changes.

I was also skeptical about fuses.  I tried some AMR fuses in my Magnepans not expecting to hear a change.  Boy was I wrong.  They sounded bright.  I gave them to a friend to try in his Magnepans and he had the same experience.

I can't give you any explanation as to why they sounded different but it was not a placebo effect as the differences were not subtle and were readily apparent in the first 30 seconds of play.

I also have 4 different pairs of XLR cables and they all sound different.  Cardas Parsec- warm sounding, Bluejeans Cables-neutral to a bit bright with sibilants, AudioQuest Columbia 72v DBS- neutral sounding, no sibilants but slight decrease in bass.  Belden 8402-very clear and detailed, neutral with a hint of warmth, minimal sibilants.

Now on the other hand, I do have various RCA IC's that all sound very similar and I have not heard differences with power cables and speaker cables although I have not tried that many or very expensive cables.

Other parts that we have found to make a difference are capacitors.  I built a DIY Pass Labs preamp and there was a clear difference between the Clarity Caps and Obbligato Golds that I tried.  I ended up using the Clarity's for more defined  and powerful bass.  In addition, I had my BAT VK-51se preamp recapped with stock caps.  For the first 150 hours I regretted it because the sound was unbearably  bright until they broke in.

I have no idea what "cheap Pangea"  you tried back then..  But this one is the best sounding one I have ever had in my very transparent system... I have Audioquest, and several  high end hi end optical cables to also compare with.  This new Pangea uses Cardas copper...  Its relatively new.  It utilizes a separate dual power and signal run USB configuration. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGUSBXL




I.Greyhound Fan

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #34 on: 24 Sep 2017, 06:20 pm »
I have no idea what "cheap Pangea"  you tried back then..  But this one is the best sounding one I have ever had in my very transparent system... I have Audioquest, and several  high end hi end optical cables to also compare with.  This new Pangea uses Cardas copper...  Its relatively new.  It utilizes a separate dual power and signal run USB configuration. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGUSBXL



I believe it was a freebie Pangea that came with a piece of audio gear that a friend bought.  It was a $40 cable.  It truly was awful sounding in my system. Even the Regen could not make it sound good.  I am not trashing Pangea and you should not take it personally.  Clearly the cables are system dependent as the $600 Lightspeed cable sounded awful in my system but sounds great in the owners system.  I even bought and returned a $150 Straight Wire USBF usb cable and it sounded extremely bright and awful.  It came highly recommended. I returned it to the Cable Co.

My whole point about my post was that cables and fuses can sound different and that they are system dependent.  In some systems there may not even be an audible difference.  And I do not have any thing against cheap cables.  The $78pr Belden 8402 XLR's that I own sound better than a $400pr Cardas Parsec XLR's and AQ Columbia 72v DBS XLR's.  I am going to switch over to all Belden 8402 Cables eventually.

Cheers,

Larry

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #35 on: 24 Sep 2017, 06:31 pm »
I believe it was a freebie Pangea that came with a piece of audio gear that a friend bought.

Well... that's a different story. I did not want others to think Pangea makes terrible sounding cables. They don't. The freebie?   Who knows what that was really?

« Last Edit: 24 Sep 2017, 09:29 pm by Genez »

christopher-h

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #36 on: 25 Sep 2017, 10:41 pm »
Ok so any other thoughts?  Synergistics say that my Quantum Black fuse is directional.  But because this is AC it doesn't matter which way it goes into the fuse holder?

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #37 on: 25 Sep 2017, 10:57 pm »
Ok so any other thoughts?  Synergistics say that my Quantum Black fuse is directional.  But because this is AC it doesn't matter which way it goes into the fuse holder?


This tells you that such a theory is not true...ITS DIRECTIONAL...   

christopher-h

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Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #38 on: 25 Sep 2017, 11:25 pm »
So for my STA-9, is the direction in the fuse holder from outside the amp to in or inside the amp to out.

Thanks,
Regards Chris

Genez

Re: STA 9 Fuse Upgrade
« Reply #39 on: 25 Sep 2017, 11:54 pm »
So for my STA-9, is the direction in the fuse holder from outside the amp to in or inside the amp to out.

Thanks,
Regards Chris

It will be the same for all STA-9's. But,  I do not know with that fuse.  You will need to tell by ear.   

I would let it burn in for a while.. Just listen to it for maybe a month.   After being accustomed to what you are hearing....  and with one of your favorite recordings, then try flipping it.   But first become very well acquainted  accustomed to what it sounds like one way.

 If its brand new it needs to burn in... I think that fuse needs about 100 hours.   But the good thing about burning in fuses is all you need to do is just leave the unit turned on 24/7.  You do not have to be playing music to burn in a fuse at the power inlet.