Please help - High Efficiency NuPrime ampliers in proper perspective?

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Genez

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I am amazed how little NuPrime power the amplifiers seem to draw from the wall.   I have a Furman power conditioner that gives readings for both line voltage and how much amperage is being drawn.  With the typical analog amplifiers the readings will tell you one thing.   But?   With the type of amplification NuPrime has designed for?  I get only a 0.4 amp drawing, with maybe a 0.5 amp reading on louder music.  When I reported this, Furman thought that maybe the conditioner was defective.  After running a test it showed that its fine.

Now..  I believe that the standard which is applied to typical analog amps may not apply to an amp designed by NuPrime of the same power rating at output. 

Here is my question.  The following comment about a line conditioner was made with typical analog amplifiers in mind. 

"Each outlet may typically be used for stereo power amplifiers up to 50 watts per channel or up to 100 watts for mono-block amplifiers."

 
Would that same standard be applicable to a NuPrime high efficiency amplifier?   I do not think it should apply.  But, I want to make sure I am not missing something.

Thanks!     Gene

G Georgopoulos

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efficiency has to do with amplifier efficiency not wall efficiency,if nuprime amps perform at 100w,1000w,etc it will reflect on wall power.

Genez

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Thank you....   

In other words...   That line conditioner would not qualify as a good candidate with a 100 watt per channel NuPrime amp.  I was wrongly under the impression that high efficiency somehow acted like a power generator.   No more, do I.  :wink: 
« Last Edit: 3 Feb 2017, 04:38 am by Genez »

Armaegis

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If you're actually cranking out that much power with speakers that have low sensitivity, then yes you may have a problem. With a speaker of average or high sensitivity though, it'll probably be just fine.

Typical class A or A/B amps dissipate a lot power not related to the audio output, and you have to add those two together when considering the wall/conditioner capacity. Class D amps on the other hand don't really have much waste heat, so you essentially only consider the audio power against the conditioner capacity.

Genez

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If you're actually cranking out that much power with speakers that have low sensitivity, then yes you may have a problem. With a speaker of average or high sensitivity though, it'll probably be just fine.

Typical class A or A/B amps dissipate a lot power not related to the audio output, and you have to add those two together when considering the wall/conditioner capacity. Class D amps on the other hand don't really have much waste heat, so you essentially only consider the audio power against the conditioner capacity.


That helped me to gather what I was trying to say.... I would assume that all the heat generated and wasted energy by class A and even AB would be part of the wattage total in the requirements I cited for the power conditioner. No?   


"Each outlet may typically be used for stereo power amplifiers up to 50 watts per channel or up to 100 watts for mono-block amplifiers."


That line conditioner uses multi isolation transformers in its design.   Its an older design, though very good one.  I believe those wattage requirements were written at a time before class D amps became popular.  So,  having a high efficiency class D?  Would it be safe to assume that lot less is wasted on power consumption than when simply playing speakers.   That for a class AB amp to pump out fifty watts?  It requires a higher usage of wattage just to get up to 50 watts at the speaker terminals than a class D?    What am I missing here? 

This might help to better understand what the design perimeters are:  http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649159820-clear-image-audio-t4-special-edition-power-line-isolator/


Thanks...

Armaegis

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Correct, all that waste heat counts against you.

Look at it this way. Let's say you've got a hot'n'heavy class-A amp that is at most 50% efficient. If you're swinging 50W output on the speakers, you're actually pulling 100W from the wall. Now take a class-d amp that's 90% efficient. Swinging that same 50W into the speakers, you're actually only pulling about 56W from the wall. Phrased another way, if you were maxing out the wall capacity then about 90W of that would be available for the speakers.

rustydoglim

For an efficient speaker, even 30W of power is very loud.  In the past, the following conditions lead to the use of a lot of power:
1. speaker that need a lot of current
2. inefficient speaker
3. inefficient amp

For switching amp with large capacitors bank, most of the time you are consuming less than 20W (so 0.5A is all you need), and when more power is need, it is supplied by the capacitor bank. The capacitors bank smooth out the need for more power during loud music passage.

Genez

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For an efficient speaker, even 30W of power is very loud.  In the past, the following conditions lead to the use of a lot of power:
1. speaker that need a lot of current
2. inefficient speaker
3. inefficient amp

For switching amp with large capacitors bank, most of the time you are consuming less than 20W (so 0.5A is all you need), and when more power is need, it is supplied by the capacitor bank. The capacitors bank smooth out the need for more power during loud music passage.

That is why when I contacted Furman they thought maybe my conditioner was defective, for I was getting only a .04 reading on my entire audio system .... It rarely went higher. I saw it once jump to .05 with a louder passage.   When I told Furman about the amp type it must have raised eyebrows.  I think the high current option offered on some power conditioners would not be needed with Nuprime amps?

When I auditioned the ST 10 I think nothing changed.  It was like being able to light an entire room with a nightlight! 

rustydoglim

Power conditional is only needed for NuPrime's electronics if you have very bad AC fluctuation (unlikely in the US) or noisy AC (this is more likely). But for noisy AC, it will be cheaper to use a quality power strip with noise filter.  These things cost less than $100.

Genez

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Power conditional is only needed for NuPrime's electronics if you have very bad AC fluctuation (unlikely in the US) or noisy AC (this is more likely). But for noisy AC, it will be cheaper to use a quality power strip with noise filter.  These things cost less than $100.

The Furman I have is all about noise filtering...  It has one bank of sockets to deal specifically with the noise that is generated by digital equipment.  The other inputs are for analog equipment noise suppression. Its working fine. It was expensive... but its spike and surge protection will not wear out like it can with cheaper power strips with noise suppression. But if you know of such a high quality strip for less it would be good to know what companies make them.

The major effect on my system's audio quality now resides specifically with my SSD, fanless PC. What ever effects that, will effect what I hear through the speakers... As it stands right now my amp and preamp (and DAC) is always satisfactorily revealing and transparent. I am so glad I discovered this type of amplification as NuPrime offers.   Especially after TDSS modded them. Quiet background and gets out of the way of the source signal.