[Zeus the thunderer]

Once you have the system good enough for a decent non-skipping playback, do the hardware upgrades (more RAM, better CPU etc.) improve the sound?
Also,Steve, any word on ripping test with decent USB cable vs. cheap one?
Or ripping with Teac vs. Yamaha?
I am really inteterested in your opinion (and your test results) about these subjects, Steve...

[indirstr8s]

Steve,
VERY interested on you Amarra take vs Foobar 0.83.  One is free, one not (at all), as you know.   

Obviously two different platforms, but I know you know the Foobar sound very very well, so the Amarra eval ought to be quite relevant, regardless.

If it is even as good as Foobar 0.8.3, then I plan to use it at RMAF with Mac controlled by Touch.

Steve N.

Wow, really?  Foobar is freeware, Amarra is $1500.  And it only needs to tie?

I'm afraid so.  It's iTunes and Mac that people want, and that is the best user interface. 

Also I'm doing some special things to my Mac Mini, including SS memory and fast interface for a Tune Bank where the music will reside.

Steve N.

Steve, what is amara? Links?   By SS memory do you mean solid state drive?

[ted_b]

SS = solid state, yes.

Amarra is an iTunes plug-in, made by Sonic Studios, a hi-end pro sound company.  The idea is to use iTunes as the catalog and user interface, and their Amarra engine as the sound vehicle.  Amarra is based on SoundBlade, a pro industry standard.  Amarra would bring supposedly better sound, an iTunes interface (iTouch/iPod control, etc.) and automatic sample rate switching, something iTunes can't do today.  The downside?  Price is $1500 for the software! 

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/index.html

[indirstr8s]

SS = solid state, yes.

Amarra is an iTunes plug-in, made by Sonic Studios, a hi-end pro sound company.  The idea is to use iTunes as the catalog and user interface, and their Amarra engine as the sound vehicle.  Amarra is based on SoundBlade, a pro industry standard.  Amarra would bring supposedly better sound, an iTunes interface (iTouch/iPod control, etc.) and automatic sample rate switching, something iTunes can't do today.  The downside?  Price is $1500 for the software! 

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/index.html

Is it just SW or a Amarra HW also required.
Does it work only with firewire or with USB too.
Does it play apple lossless

Too many questions, too few answers.

[satfrat]

SS = solid state, yes.

Amarra is an iTunes plug-in, made by Sonic Studios, a hi-end pro sound company.  The idea is to use iTunes as the catalog and user interface, and their Amarra engine as the sound vehicle.  Amarra is based on SoundBlade, a pro industry standard.  Amarra would bring supposedly better sound, an iTunes interface (iTouch/iPod control, etc.) and automatic sample rate switching, something iTunes can't do today.  The downside?  Price is $1500 for the software! 

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/index.html

Is it just SW or a Amarra HW also required.
Does it work only with firewire or with USB too.
Does it play apple lossless

Too many questions, too few answers.

For $1500, Amarra better tapdance and whistle dixie.

Deep pockets rule!

Cheers,
Robin

[ted_b]

SS = solid state, yes.

Amarra is an iTunes plug-in, made by Sonic Studios, a hi-end pro sound company.  The idea is to use iTunes as the catalog and user interface, and their Amarra engine as the sound vehicle.  Amarra is based on SoundBlade, a pro industry standard.  Amarra would bring supposedly better sound, an iTunes interface (iTouch/iPod control, etc.) and automatic sample rate switching, something iTunes can't do today.  The downside?  Price is $1500 for the software! 

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/index.html

Is it just SW or a Amarra HW also required.
Does it work only with firewire or with USB too.
Does it play apple lossless

Too many questions, too few answers.

The $1500 is just software.  They have pro dacs that include it, at $8k,etc.  Only currently plays WAV and AIFF, so you need some storage space.  And only currently approved/certified for a few 3rd party DACs, both fw and USB. 

For once, Robin, I've gotta agree with you.     I've posted on the Amarra forums on CA and elsewhere that this industry (audiophile-level pc audio) is in it's early infancy, with few standards and fundamentals established to-date, and to spend that on what is normally freeware-to-$99 is a paradigm shift that most will not accept without some hard hard evidence.  That evidence is currently being sought.

[indirstr8s]

SS = solid state, yes.

Amarra is an iTunes plug-in, made by Sonic Studios, a hi-end pro sound company.  The idea is to use iTunes as the catalog and user interface, and their Amarra engine as the sound vehicle.  Amarra is based on SoundBlade, a pro industry standard.  Amarra would bring supposedly better sound, an iTunes interface (iTouch/iPod control, etc.) and automatic sample rate switching, something iTunes can't do today.  The downside?  Price is $1500 for the software! 

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/index.html

Is it just SW or a Amarra HW also required.
Does it work only with firewire or with USB too.
Does it play apple lossless

Too many questions, too few answers.

The $1500 is just software.  They have pro dacs that include it, at $8k,etc.  Only currently plays WAV and AIFF, so you need some storage space.  And only currently approved/certified for a few 3rd party DACs, both fw and USB. 

For once, Robin, I've gotta agree with you.     I've posted on the Amarra forums on CA and elsewhere that this industry (audiophile-level pc audio) is in it's early infancy, with few standards and fundamentals established to-date, and to spend that on what is normally freeware-to-$99 is a paradigm shift that most will not accept without some hard hard evidence.  That evidence is currently being sought.

Ted_b, thanks. I actually read the whole CA thread on amarra, pretty long one. I gathered the following....

a) It plays on both firewire and USB. The DAC need to be certified.
b) The benchmark media DAC is certified.
c) The EA usb products use the same USB FW as the benchmark media, but the impression I got was it did not work for some fellows who tried the demo amarra with EA.
d) Demo amarra is available on request. I put on my request for it.
e) Many people found it better sounding than iTunes, keeping the volume control and eq settings off.
This thing never ceases to be intriguing.
f) Some claimed on CA that even the professional Audio editors play better than iTunes.

[serengetiplains]

Steve, I just swapped the 80GB hard drive in my Mac Mini for a 128GB SSD unit.  This made a worthwhile audible difference.  You know what this implies, hey?  Upgrading the Mini power supply will show an improvement.  This is my next little task.

[firedog]

Warning:  just because the bits are matching with compare tools like EAC does not mean the two files will sound the same.  Try it yourself.

Steve N.

Steve, can you explain a bit more:

How 2 "bit perfect" files can sound different?

How FLAC can sound different than WAV when the files are mathematically identical?

Thanks

[mfsoa]

I sure can't 'splain it, but I don't think the green pen trick changes the bits, but it does change the sound.

Same for different CD-R media - I'll bet the bits are the same, but they sound different to everyone I've demoed it to.

One could probably line up a bunch of CD transports that provide the same bits, but I'd imagine they won't sound the same (haven't tried, so can't say if this is true).

Same for digital cables, but again I haven't tried so no comment on SQ change.

For me it's even easier to see how the decompression of a FLAC could change the sound, but I have not tried this so I can't say that it does.

-Mike

[BPT]

What is the power input (DCV & A) for the Mini--online specs don't say?
Chris H.

[serengetiplains]

Chris, the supply outputs 18.5VDC.  Current draw is evidently max 2A thereabouts.  The supply is rated for 4+A.

Pin connections, from memory, are symmetrical beginning, from outside to middle, with ground on the outside, followed by hot, with a signal line in the middle.  The signal line is a trigger that terminates to a 6.5K or 6.8K resistor in the power supply.

I read somewhere that the Mini can be fed 12VDC and operate, so it looks to internally reduce the 18.5VDC immediately without use for any voltage >12V.

I suspect swapping the Apple supply for a linear unit would give a small bump in performance.

[BPT]

Thanks. I suspect it will improve the sound.

There is a recent Amarra thread at The Apple Core for those interested.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68351.0

Chris H.

[richidoo]

Good points all Mike.

The marker and black CD changes ar supposedly due to improved light transmission from the laser interface - magic CD surface treatments work similarly. But Robert Harley argues convincingly in last years article about CD and digital media that the error correction in CDPs is virtually foolproof. Even $30 CDP gives you almost perfect data.  I think it's the jitter that's the biggest issue to the high end audiophile.  If markers assist the laser to read, or reduce rereads that could help reduce jitter.

Cables obviously reduce jitter, because when cable impedance varies from the nominal 75ohms that the transceivers are tuned for reflections create jitter. BNC connections are important in that case too.

But I am still having difficulty with the concept that 2 wav files with equal CRCs (using same CRC algorithm) will sound different. They are identical files, with no error correction codes remaining, being played back through same pathway. I am open minded to there being a difference and would jump on it once identified. But without understanding what is the cause, I can't swallow the koolaid just yet. Steve is a persistent digital audio innovator, he will identify the culprit, I'm confident!

Could it be something to do with how the ripping drive handles the error correction codes on every CD? This is an area that I don't understand.  But I suspect that the files are not actually identical, and there can be unerased error codes remaining in the file that varies in sonic effect from drive to drive. The drive hardware does some of the error correction before sending data off the drive, and the effectiveness of that error removal is determined by the designer's spec. TEAC makes some good stuff, and is aware of digital audio nuances. Perhaps they have standardized company wide on error correction ICs that work better than avg crap drives designed to appeal to Dell system designers - purely low cost with moderate reliability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed-Solomon_error_correction
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HPJ/is_n6_v41/ai_9683351/

Reading these articles gives the impression that error correction in a CD drive is like making sausage. It does the best it can but there is a lot of room for one drive to better than another. 

More along this line
http://www.novaphysicsgroup.com/NonTechRURguidePAGE8.html

[serengetiplains]

Ted_b, thanks. I actually read the whole CA thread on amarra, pretty long one. I gathered the following....

a) It plays on both firewire and USB. The DAC need to be certified.
b) The benchmark media DAC is certified.
c) The EA usb products use the same USB FW as the benchmark media, but the impression I got was it did not work for some fellows who tried the demo amarra with EA.
d) Demo amarra is available on request. I put on my request for it.
e) Many people found it better sounding than iTunes, keeping the volume control and eq settings off.
This thing never ceases to be intriguing.
f) Some claimed on CA that even the professional Audio editors play better than iTunes.

Ted, I was one who compared Amarra to other players.  My impression is Amarra easily bettered iTunes.  I also had compared a few professional players and found all to better iTunes.

Tom

[serengetiplains]

Chris, FWIW, the best linear off the shelf supplies I have found are the Acopian brand.  Their Gold Box A Series come in at 0.25mV RMS ripple with load and line regulation at 0.005%.  Acopian publishes the schematic for these supplies (sans values) here:

http://www.acopian.com/pdf/AcopianGoldBoxSeriesA.pdf

Very likely better than Acopian would be a Paul Hynes supply.  He publishes extremely low noise specs for his units.

[audioengr]

Steve, I just swapped the 80GB hard drive in my Mac Mini for a 128GB SSD unit.  This made a worthwhile audible difference.  You know what this implies, hey?  Upgrading the Mini power supply will show an improvement.  This is my next little task.

I have a 64Gbyte SSD on the way for my Mini.  I dont think its power noise.  I believe it's the access speed of the memory and disk.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

I sure can't 'splain it, but I don't think the green pen trick changes the bits, but it does change the sound.

Same for different CD-R media - I'll bet the bits are the same, but they sound different to everyone I've demoed it to.

One could probably line up a bunch of CD transports that provide the same bits, but I'd imagine they won't sound the same (haven't tried, so can't say if this is true).

Same for digital cables, but again I haven't tried so no comment on SQ change.

For me it's even easier to see how the decompression of a FLAC could change the sound, but I have not tried this so I can't say that it does.

-Mike

These are different effects.  What you talk about above is jitter.

What Amarra does and what ripping does has to do with the data.  Bit-perfect is not the whole story BTW.  Offsets dont change bit-perfect.

Steve N.

[audioengr]

Chris, FWIW, the best linear off the shelf supplies I have found are the Acopian brand.  Their Gold Box A Series come in at 0.25mV RMS ripple with load and line regulation at 0.005%.  Acopian publishes the schematic for these supplies (sans values) here:

http://www.acopian.com/pdf/AcopianGoldBoxSeriesA.pdf

Very likely better than Acopian would be a Paul Hynes supply.  He publishes extremely low noise specs for his units.

For one Overdrive customer, I put together a linear 220VAC supply.  This was really good.  I have one here that is the same thing wired for 110VAC.  Not so good.

I would recommend using 220VAC if you have an outlet.  Its balanced and the cord does not matter much.

I found the International Power linear supplies to be excellent.

Steve N.

[serengetiplains]

I suspect a balanced 220V supply, among other things, eliminates the extra noise harmonics riding on the neutral leg.  I used 220V exclusively in my previous residence where I had space and the ability to rewire.

Tom