AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Critic's Circle (Equipment Reviews) => Source Component Reviews => Topic started by: trianglezerius on 5 Dec 2009, 02:41 pm
-
I recently had the opportunity to do a home audition of the DB Audio Labs Tranquility USB Dac. Boy, what a privilege it was to hear this new dac. It has a really nice build quality and the nice beefy connectors on the back. I set it up next to what I thought was a stellar CD player, especially after modifying it, my Jas Musik 1.2. I bought this player last year as it sonically won out against players like the Rega Apollo and all the Cambridge models. Yet the Tranquility DAC just trounced my player. There was no comparison! It was cleaner, clearer, had a lower noise floor and had sustain and decay much like analog does, the midrange had a more fluid presentation and the bass was deeper and had better pitch definition. It was unlike anything I?ve heard before at this price (or any for that matter) and it?s mind baffling they are selling for under a grand. Hell, even at its list price of $1495 it is a real steal in my opinion. I know I haven't heard everything out there but I believe that this Tranquility Dac must be setting some sort of new standards for digital playback.
I proceeded to compare it to my buddies $9K AMR player at his house and his AMR is VERY well reviewed. This player, as good as it is, sounded more digital - like, where the trailing ends of musical notes ended much more abruptly and the Tranquility had sustain and decay that just kept going right till the next note. Plus the Tranquility?s ability to sound natural and fluid was better too. I remember my quest for a CD player under $2K. It seemed a little disappointing that I had to accept some sort of sonic compromise for anything I heard near that price. Models such as the Cambridge Audio 840c and Rega Apollo sounding a bit glossy and shut in compared to players I couldn?t really afford (and I don't care what the reviewers say about these CD players, that's how they sounded to my ears!).
The Tranquility Dac makes me rethink my opinion that digital music was somewhat flawed. Now I think it's been the playback that was flawed all along. I am going to purchase this Tranquility Dac after the holidays so I can re-listen to my entire CD collection. Thanks to the guys at dB Audio Labs for this excellent product. I?m sure they could have priced it much higher than the $1,500 based on how it sounds and still made lots of sales. As for the current price, I feel like I've just won the lottery. It that will remain a staple in my system for years to come, job well done guys!
Tom
-
Nice review. Sounds like you really like it.
Here's a link to their homepage
http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/
-
Thanks Rich for posting the link since I just forgot to add it.
-
Here's a link to their homepage
http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/ (http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/)
I'm glad it sounds good because never have I seen so much prose say so little!
I also have no idea what bit depth and sampling rate it will decode, no clue as to how quiet or noisy it might be (S/N ratio) and as far as frequency response linearity, I guess that too is guarded information.
I do know it's dimensions and weight, though!
Steve
-
Nice review. Sounds like you really like it.
Here's a link to their homepage
http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/
Boy, their website absolutely reveals NO information about the USB implementation, DAC chips, 24/96 capability, or pretty much anything. I did catch that they use "Zero Feedback discrete Class A output," which is always a plus :thumb:
-
It has CTIT (tm) - Cryogenically Treated Integrated Circuits.
I'm out.
Steve
-
Here's a link to their homepage
http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/ (http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/)
I'm glad it sounds good because never have I seen so much prose say so little!
I also have no idea what bit depth and sampling rate it will decode, no clue as to how quiet or noisy it might be (S/N ratio) and as far as frequency response linearity, I guess that too is guarded information.
I do know it's dimensions and weight, though!
Steve
I thought the same thing....lots of words for so little said. My generous interpretation of this is that by not getting into the details they are saying to the audiophile community,
"look everyone is spouting this and that about the latest digital technology: bits/sampling rate/jitter, etc. etc., we're a smart group of folks who have judiciously assembled several mature technologies and put them together into a package that does music right, and we hope you'll take a listen."
This won't sit well with many people, but if it really is a special unit, lots of people will say it is over a long period of time, and we will still be talking about it one year from now.
-
I thought the same thing....lots of words for so little said. My generous interpretation of this is that by not getting into the details they are saying to the audiophile community,
"look everyone is spouting this and that about the latest digital technology: bits/sampling rate/jitter, etc. etc., we're a smart group of folks who have judiciously assembled several mature technologies and put them together into a package that does music right, and we hope you'll take a listen."
I think whether or not the device will convert the high resolution files on my computer (after all, this is a USB DAC intended for a computer) is most certainly a "detail" that should have been talked about!
As far as my previous post, I am not a believer in cryogenically treating circuitry. NASA acknowledges that cryogenics can increase the dimensional stability of metals, however they do not cryogenically treat electronic circuits that go into space.
Beyond that, applying for a tradename for an acronym of "Cryogenically Treated Integrated Circuits" IMO is pure marketing hype.
I have every right to be turned off by fluff.
Steve
-
I thought the same thing....lots of words for so little said. My generous interpretation of this is that by not getting into the details they are saying to the audiophile community,
"look everyone is spouting this and that about the latest digital technology: bits/sampling rate/jitter, etc. etc., we're a smart group of folks who have judiciously assembled several mature technologies and put them together into a package that does music right, and we hope you'll take a listen."
I think whether or not the device will convert the high resolution files on my computer (after all, this is a USB DAC intended for a computer) is most certainly a "detail" that should have been talked about!
As far as my previous post, I am not a believer in cryogenically treating circuitry. NASA acknowledges that cryogenics can increase the dimensional stability of metals, however they do not cryogenically treat electronic circuits that go into space.
Beyond that, applying for a tradename for an acronym of "cryogenically treated integrated circuits" is IMO pure marketing hype.
I have every right to be turned off by their fluff.
Steve
You certainly do, Steve. I don't think you will be the only one turned off either. I am certainly going to wait and see. So much happening in the DAC world these days. Good fun.
-
I gotta assume it's not a hirez DAC, redbook only, or they would have said something on their website. Nice pictures, lots of words, no info. In this world of competitive DACs at every price range (Antelope, make of killer digital audio clocking devices at real world pricing, just announced their 24/384k DAC at $3k, and two others starting at $1800) it's quite surprising they have no real info.:scratch:
-
Not sure if you all are aware (or care) but Gr-research featured this at the last RMAF. Danny seems to think a lot of it. Maybe he could give some more info about it....
-Tony
-
As far as my previous post, I am not a believer in cryogenically treating circuitry. NASA acknowledges that cryogenics can increase the dimensional stability of metals, however they do not cryogenically treat electronic circuits that go into space.
Beyond that, applying for a tradename for an acronym of "Cryogenically Treated Integrated Circuits" IMO is pure marketing hype.
I have every right to be turned off by fluff.
Steve
I don't expect that astronauts are listening to high end stereo systems in space either so what's your point? I AM a firm believer in cryogenics as used in audio. I also have every right to be turned off by fluff. :thumb:
Nice review btw regardless of all the excessive fluff (edit: AFTER THE REVIEW). :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Antelope has no real info either. When I go to the website there are lots of specs but no date for availability and no pricing.
-
Similar discussion happening on Audiogon after a rave review was posted.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1258679140&read&keyw&zzdb+audio+labs+tranquility+usb+dac
-
Antelope has no real info either. When I go to the website there are lots of specs but no date for availability and no pricing.
Cuz they're not released yet. :) My point is that there is no doubt what they can do. Lots of tech info. 6Moons has the pre-press release with pricing, but that's not the topic of this thread.
-
Assuming the Eric Hider that owns the domain is the same Eric Hider who is on AC as ehider, he was logged on as recently as yesterday, so perhaps he will post some details in this thread.
-
A couple of you guys just crack me up! Let?s review my digital comparisons that I did for picking this new DAC I am going to buy -
My JAS Musik - PCM 1732, a buffer using a 12AX7LPS, custom superclock and pwr supplies and it easily won out when compared to the following players with their "technology"-
- Rega Apollo - Wolfson 8740 with Rega's own class A design output and some other Rega stuff they don't talk about.
- Cambridge 840C - Anagram (ATF) asynchronous, upsampling feeds two 24-bit, 384 kHz DAC, ?The ATF system intelligently interpolates 16-bit, 44.1 kHz CD data to 24-bit, 384 kHz data, through the use of a 32-bit Analog Devices 'Black-Fin' DSP. This, in turn, feeds two 24-bit, 384 kHz DACs from the same company in dual differential formation.?....and the 840C features a Four Pole Dual Differential Double Virtual Earth Balanced topology?.
But my JAS and the other two players don?t hold a candle to my buddy?s cost no object AMR Player which has a bunch more of "technology" -
- AMR CD-77 - special custom wound transformers, optimized servo timing, super clock module w/ special pwr supply, MASSIVE custom transport, 10 pwr supply regulators, two power supplies that drive the Master Clock, Dynamic Element Matching, special SMD film capacitors, Sanyo Os-Con caps, power supply impedance up to 100Mhz. blah, blah, blah. Here are some great pictures of the inside of his AMR player from a reviewer that said it was one of the best you can buy today. It looks serious and then some! http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/abbingdon/abbingdon_3.html
The Tranquility that I?m going to buy is even better sounding than all of these different companies digital players. What's with these serious negative responses because you don't knowing what is inside this new Tranquillity that I'm getting? Can't give these guys a chance to explain what they are doing? From what I know they launched this company at RMAF just a few months ago. How do you guys know they won't tell you about their "technology". EVERY question I asked them they answered in great detail.
Does anybody here remember Robert Harley's review of the Cambridge 840C? He talked and talked about all of this super "technology" inside that player with him concluding it was the best buy he knew of under $5K! Is that what everyone thinks now about the Cambridge 840C? For me I like to start with judging any digital by comparing with MY EARS how each is against other great sounding players. I DON'T want to end up with some sort of "technology approved" Cambridge type of player that fits some engineer's idea of is great. I guess I must be a very different audiophile from a few of you guys. For me, the proof is in the pudding;-)
-
What's with these serious negative responses because you don't knowing what is inside this new Tranquillity that I'm getting?
Cuz if I try to play a 24/176 HRX file on it and it spits out electronic buzz (cuz it can't do 24/176) then it's not gonna work for me!! A few details (like what does it play!!) is not asking much.
-
What's with these serious negative responses because you don't knowing what is inside this new Tranquillity that I'm getting?
Cuz if I try to play a 24/176 HRX file on it and it spits out electronic buzz (cuz it can't do 24/176) then it's not gonna work for me!! A few details (like what does it play!!) is not asking much.
That's what fueled my negative response. The lack of necessary information combined with an inordinate amount of insubstantial poetry.
Steve
-
I have one of the tranquility DAC's here now. And for what it is worth, I have been ABing it to the latest 32 bit Wolfson system that is a new evaluation model that is not even a product yet. A small group and I will be having a little DAC comparison shortly using some of the best available that we can find. Cost is no object.
Right now I'd have to say that the Tranquility DAC is a favorite.
It is everything mentioned above in the review and then some. It is like not even listening to digital at all. It sounds like a top level analog system.
I know Eric pretty well and while he doesn't divulge to many of their trade secretes, I do know enough to know that they are doing some things no one else is and I doubt they will go public with those things at all if they can help it. They have some clear competitive advantages.
If you call them up and start asking Eric questions then he will give you answers, but don't expect to see his answers on the web site. And the reasons why it sounds as good as it does involves a lot of things often overlooked. It is not about the numbers or the bit rates.
The best advice I can give you guys is that it only cost a grand and it stomps the crap out of just about anything regardless of price. Who cares what's in it. Just listen to it and decide if it is worth it or not.
And Steve, the cryo treatment does a lot, not just in this DAC but in a lot of things involving circuits, components, and wire. A LOT! Don't go into analyzing it and debating it without listening. Before and after comparisons are pretty easy to make. Been there, done that.
So count me as a very happy customer.
-
I know Eric pretty well and while he doesn't divulge to many of their trade secretes, I do know enough to know that they are doing some things no one else is and I doubt they will go public with those things at all if they can help it. They have some clear competitive advantages.
Okay Danny, but can you or someone who has one please tell us if it accepts high res files (24bit/96KHz or greater) or is limited to 16bit/48KHz? We still don't consider that a trade secret or proprietary detail.
Steve
-
It is not about the numbers or the bit rates.
Who cares what's in it. Just listen to it and decide if it is worth it or not.
?? So, according to your advice, if I play a 24/176 or 24/192 file to this DAC and it plays back noise or nothing, then I should assume it's no good?? Maybe I'm playing the wrong source, and it only handles redbook., or up to 24/48. I'd be missing out then!! ??
Being facetious here of course, but this whole thing of saying it's not about bit rates or about whats in it is very very bizarre. If it can't play any of my HiRez music, then I kinda need to know that.
-
This model does not do 24/96. They do have higher end models but wanted to launch the budget version first. So if you have to have one that does the higher bit rates then just wait a little while. They will have one. And I will likely order one as soon as it is ready. :thumb:
When I say it is not about the bit rate, what I mean is that it is not about the numbers. Just because a chip set will play back a higher sampling rate does not mean that the whole thing is going to sound better than one with a lower sampling rate.
-
This model does not do 24/96. They do have higher end models but wanted to launch the budget version first. So if you have to have one that does the higher bit rates then just wait a little while. They will have one. And I will likely order one as soon as it is ready.
Thank You.
When I say it is not about the bit rate, what I mean is that it is not about the numbers. Just because a chip set will play back a higher sampling rate does not mean that the whole thing is going to sound better than one with a lower sampling rate.
Understood.
Steve
-
This model does not do 24/96. They do have higher end models but wanted to launch the budget version first. So if you have to have one that does the higher bit rates then just wait a little while. They will have one. And I will likely order one as soon as it is ready. :thumb:
When I say it is not about the bit rate, what I mean is that it is not about the numbers. Just because a chip set will play back a higher sampling rate does not mean that the whole thing is going to sound better than one with a lower sampling rate.
Thank you! I don't know why that basic info was so difficult to uncover; not your fault or your problem....but a note back to the mfg'er that people need to know what the DAC can read.
-
On a very positive note, I did find out on the website that the Tranquility is
Proudly designed, manufactured and assembled entirely in the United States!
I agree that does deserve an exclamation mark!
Steve
-
I can kind of see them not wanting to publicize too much, as people tend to just use it as a check list. 24 bit (check), USB (check), fiber optic (check), Up-samples to 192/196/320 something, blah, blah, blah... (check).
The simple truth is that 99% of everything in every ones audio library is 16 bit recorded.
Adding multiple inputs degrades the signal even if they are not in use, yes just having them on there.
And up-sampling does not sound natural.
-
Oh yeah, and the Tranquility DAC will pay anything you can send it (sort of). In computer audio, the computer knows what DAC is hooked up to it and what to send it. You can play the higher sampling rate signals but the computer will reduce it down to the lower sampling rate.
What's funny is that with this DAC, it may still sound better then many or most of the other DAC's even though the others can play the higher bit rates.
-
In computer audio, the computer knows what DAC is hooked up to it and what to send it. You can play the higher sampling rate signals but the computer will reduce it down to the lower sampling rate.
:scratch: Don't know about the Mac platform, but on the Windows platform, when bypassing the internal Windows mixer using a kernel streaming driver in exclusive mode, there will be no resampling (that's kind of the goal). The computer will send the file in it's native format.
Steve
-
Bummer, the Mac does it automatically.
I think there is also some very expensive licensing on some programing that lets the Tranquility DAC communicate with the computer via the direct I2S connection. There might be something going on there to enable that too.
-
While discussing the relative merits of the digital technologies used in competing products one does well to remember that all of these products stand or fall on the strength of their analogue output stage. In the case of the Cambridge 840C it has an OPA2134 for the final analogue output stage. While these aren't bad sounding opamps there are certainly better sounding ones out there. The power supply for the analogue stage could also be upgraded with with Jensen 4 pole capacitors. The point is this is a CD player with near state of the art digital technology in it for a street price of only $1,595. It is a waste of time to criticize the digital technology in potentially competing products when it is not an apple to apple comparison. On the basis of my own experience I would not expect most standalone CD players to compete with a USB DAC driven from a computer anyway. Whether their marketing strategy of near zero information about their product on their website causes them to succeed or fail remains to be seen. I personally don't think this strategy has much merit. In the absence magazine reviews or online buzz people tend to compare products on the basis of their specifications,product features and applied technology. As a contrasting example examine the the Cambridge website.They fully disclose the applied digital technologies that are used in their products. As I see it dB Audio Labs
major competitor is Wavelength Audio with their line of Asynchronous USB DACs. dB Audio Labs failure to specify whether their DAC
operates asynchronously is an oversight on their part and needs to be dealt with. I do think their initial offering is functionally obsolete as it down samples all higher data rates. As it stands we have trianglezerius's report and he heard what he heard, short of criticizing the website's
lack of information which has been done there really is nothing further to be said about a product none us has heard for ourselves.
Scotty
-
As far as my previous post, I am not a believer in cryogenically treating circuitry. NASA acknowledges that cryogenics can increase the dimensional stability of metals, however they do not cryogenically treat electronic circuits that go into space.
Steve, I agree with your fundamental point that information that affects compatibility with other components or computer audio data formats should be included. I wouldn't, however, let NASA's choices dictate yours... they have a budget and have specified processes for trading risk against performance. Given budget constraints, they may choose additional backups or increased risk because they can't afford the cost of the increased performance. They are usually just moving data around as well, and can thus take advantage of error correcting protocols. Consumer audio doesn't really have any of those issues or benefits - they just have to worry about that pesky customer! :lol:
trianglezerius, thanks for the review. It would be helpful to those reading it if you could more fully describe the system you tested with, the room and its treatments, the type of music you used, your own acoustic preferences, etc.. The more you pass along, the better others can relate!
Thanks!
-
I wouldn't, however, let NASA's choices dictate yours... they have a budget and have specified processes for trading risk against performance. Given budget constraints, they may choose additional backups or increased risk because they can't afford the cost of the increased performance. They are usually just moving data around as well, and can thus take advantage of error correcting protocols. Consumer audio doesn't really have any of those issues or benefits - they just have to worry about that pesky customer! :lol:
Okay. Maybe I don't have a problem with cryogenics or know enough about it relative to electronics. Perhaps it was more the tradename CTIC(tm) applied to generic cryogenically treated integrated circuits. The Tranquility DAC has zero feedback discrete Class A outputs. How about ZFDCAO(tm)?
Like Danny and others have said, the DAC will be judged ultimately on it's sound, not on it's specs. I just think the clandestine approach will make it more difficult for sales to get out of the starting gate with any significant numbers.
On a side note, NASA shuttle astronauts do use iPods for their audio systems. The lithium batteries are replaced with alkaline type to meet safety guidelines, and the device is not yet approved for the Space Station itself. But I think they are all "modded" with an ESS Sabre32 9018 DAC and have dual ultra-miniature DHT tube outputs. ;)
Steve
-
On a side note, NASA shuttle astronauts do use iPods for their audio systems. The lithium batteries are replaced with alkaline type to meet safety guidelines, and the device is not yet approved for the Space Station itself. But I think they are all "modded" with an ESS Sabre32 9018 DAC and have dual ultra-miniature DHT tube outputs. ;)
Steve
Very interesting Steve. :lol:
-
An intriguing product. I can appreciate the simplicity of the circuitry contributing to superior sound and the use of a class A output stage, BUT how in the world can I determine whether it is appropriate for my system? No output impedance spec. or voltage output spec. make it impossible to ascertain if it will work for me. Surely this info can't be "proprietary"! It would cost almost $150 to find out if it is NOT compatible with my setup(restocking fee+ shipping). Danny, can you measure the output?
-
No output impedance spec. or voltage output spec. make it impossible to ascertain if it will work for me.
Audio by Van Alstine also does not publish specs for their equipment but all a person has to do is call because they are not a secret, plus AVA has a stellar reputation for quality. A new company has to go the extra mile to get customers, flowery obtuse language only goes so far.
The website says "the Tranquility DAC is the cumulation of over three years of research and development by an assembled team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories." so publishing some actual numbers should not be too hard.
Without some hard information about the quality inside, the dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC is destined to be just another flavor of the month.
Wayne
-
An intriguing product. I can appreciate the simplicity of the circuitry contributing to superior sound and the use of a class A output stage, BUT how in the world can I determine whether it is appropriate for my system? No output impedance spec. or voltage output spec. make it impossible to ascertain if it will work for me. Surely this info can't be "proprietary"! It would cost almost $150 to find out if it is NOT compatible with my setup(restocking fee+ shipping). Danny, can you measure the output?
On the website they have contact info so you might try that route.
I don't think they are deliberately hiding information like this. By and large, most people (not specifically AC'ers) don't know that info about their source equipment, or what it means.
-Tony
-
I don't blame them for marketing it this way. Most people will compare some spec and say that must mean something. They are not selling based on spec's. A lot of equipment is sold based on reputation. They are making some strong claims and if they hold up, they will find plenty of people willing to buy.
Look at how amplifiers tend to be specified... slew rate, thd, watts rms, etc. Or TV's with resolution, brightness, dynamic contrast specs. So there are people, and I know many, who just look at a few specs on things, get hung up on them. They think these numbers must be what you are supposed to base your decision on.
To me, it sounds like DB is taking a different approach where they are saying to judge it on what you hear, and this approach is just not well accepted by some here. The low intro pricing gives them a better chance to build up a reputation with this design.
-Tony
-
[. By and large, most people (not specifically AC'ers) don't know that info about their source equipment, or what it means.
-Tony
I disagree. A DAC product is a specialized product, sold to a specialized niche. It is neither a source product nor an amplified one, but goes "inline". To that end, us DAC users have some very basic "need to know" hurdles before we evaluate further. Nothing proprietary or of any intellectual property or competitive advantage...or that can even be deemed vague (power specs, thd, etc.)....just simple stuff like what it plays, what it connects to, and what are it's output specs. Although the analogy is not a tight one, would you buy a flatscreen if they didn't at least tell you the size, and whether it was 1080p or 720p?
-
Well, if it was a 42" or less, some debate that you could actually perceive a difference based on 720 or 1080 on it. So to make something 1080 might be something designers deem to be a waste of money, but is a consumers "must have". So it distracts them.
I have friends and acquaintances that will buy a DAC and don't know crap about them. Mostly because they read a review and the reviewer has a DAC.
I do think they should put the impedence and voltage specs up for those that want it. But clock, jitter rates, asynchronicity, chipsets, etc, -maybe not so much.
-Tony
-
I do think they should put the impedence and voltage specs up for those that want it. But clock, jitter rates, asynchronicity, chipsets, etc, -maybe not so much.
-Tony
Not to further beat a dead horse, but...how about just "what it plays" as in bit depth/sampling rate(s)...or for the friends of yours that just want a DAC...."plays cd's" ? :o
-
No output impedance spec. or voltage output spec. make it impossible to ascertain if it will work for me.
Audio by Van Alstine also does not publish specs for their equipment but all a person has to do is call because they are not a secret, plus AVA has a stellar reputation for quality. A new company has to go the extra mile to get customers, flowery obtuse language only goes so far.
The website says "the Tranquility DAC is the cumulation of over three years of research and development by an assembled team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories." so publishing some actual numbers should not be too hard.
Without some hard information about the quality inside, the dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC is destined to be just another flavor of the month.
Wayne
AVA also offers a 30 trial with no restocking fee. When the Insight DAC was first offered I took advantage of this, at the intro price, and compared it to the Bryston BDA-1 in this thread.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64204.msg583793;topicseen#msg583793
I had to email Frank to get the specs and Bryston publishes theirs on the web.
-
I think a USB only DAC has to partly be considered a computer peripheral - and info on what it is compatible with needs to be provided. The market is people who want to use a computer as a music server, so I think it is a different segment of the audiophile market than those that would just buy a standalone DAC on reputation alone.
As others have noted too much fluff and not enough info will turn a lot of people off. If I need to go through the trouble to contact them to get basic info, I feel they don't respect me or my time and it would take a LOT of great word of mouth to get me to consider their product.
Based on everything I've read it sounds like a great product - I'd still like a lot more info before dropping a grand.
Jim C
-
Hello to all from dB Audio Labs :D
Mgalusha, thank you for inviting me into this thread to shed some light about dB Audio Labs and to explain some details about our new Tranquility DAC. So, Guys, PLEASE cut me some slack on this first posting as I will attempt to provide you guys with the tech details you all wanted that wasn't outlined via our website.
First, a little about "who is dB Audio Labs". We are a very different audio manufacturer than what many audiophiles are used to seeing. Just as Traderxfan considered, we will NOT sell products based on specs alone. Our philosophy is to sell products based on TRUE SONIC PERFORMANCE, period. What does "true sonic performance" mean to us? It means that we want to offer audiophiles products by "winning the day" when compared to other similarly priced products in listening comparatives. How many times have you guys followed the marketing/techno-number-bit hype over the years and just replaced one digital product with another one year after year? Waiting for the "digital promise land of sound", yet it never really happens! In dB Audio Labs products, you WON'T find any cheap and dirty connectors, capacitors, resistors, wires or other abysmally meager sounding parts in anything we offer. We will work our "R & D tails off" to develop and offer products for prices that are a fraction of what other true statement level sounding products are selling. Yep, the REAL expensive ones!
We won't have fancy magazine ads, we won't have the 50% brick and morter dealer mark-up and we will be VERY efficient with everything we do. And, we will NOT price our products when we could double, triple your price based on how it compares to others. What does all of that mean for you guys? Real breakthrough sounding products at very real prices. Finally, everything will be designed, manufactured and assembled in the United States. And we do our due diligence to win in direct sonic comparatives. We will be "measured" by this standard. That's what dB Audio Labs is all about.
Now, on to answering many of the inquiries that were on this thread (note, some redundant answers)
- The Tranquility is a computer connected via USB DAC with many refinements and optimizations that are unique to dB Audio Labs. It is based around a special chosen NOS chipset with refinements on the USB input, the transmission paths, jitter reduction, the NOS chip itself, the power supply, the regulation, the output stage and some proprietary things we hold very closely to ourselves. Hence the Tranquility design is a holistic cumulation of design elements that is meant to "sonically exceed" anything else, with any other technology near the price we are selling it. We define "sonically exceed" as: true harmonic naturalness, soundstage depth, space and sonic decay that are analog's traditional strengths that have been typically elusive from a digital source.
- The "NOS" DAC we use has 16 bit internal native resolution (we aren't revealing the exact one we use other than to say is the BEST sounding of all the NOS chipsets we evaluated).
- Since NOS chipset architecture is built differently from a 24/192 solution, ours will "flag the computer" to automatically send the dac playback fitting its native 16 bit resolution, hence, this is how the Tranquility DAC manages to play the high rez music files from the computer. (BTW; the flagging of the computer to auto adapt to the dac connected is true for 98% of ALL computer/USB DACs, regardless of DAC maufacturer).
- The trademarked "cryo treatment" of our IC's was meant to show the obsessive LEVEL OF DETAIL we have gone into with every single little refinement we found and subsequently incorporated into the Tranquility. We are not going to Trademark all the crazy refinements we incorporated into this DAC and then subsequently trademark dozens of names ;-)
- Yes the DAC will playback 24/176, 24/192; fitting the DAC's native 16 bit rez and NOT spit out any sort of buzz. Yes, it works!
- The output of the DAC exceeds 2 volts rms.
- The output impedance of the DAC is approximately less than 50 ohms.
- The signal to noise ratio is > 96dB
- Yes the DAC plays 24/96 music files by fitting its native 16 bit resolution
- The DAC will "convert" high resolution files (via the computer being flagged to send it 16 bits to the DAC) - hence; the computer automatically does the actual "converting"
- It should NOT really be considered "Redbook only" since it WILL play the HIGHER files, just at it's internal 16 bit native resolution.
- The USB input implementation is not using the specific async. technology.
- The USB input is a cumulation of selected low jitter parts, unique low litter pathways and proprietary receiver optimizations meant to keep the cost of the dac from skyrocketing, avoiding using costly async. or other methods.
- The Tranquility is only the first of a series of DACs to be made by dB Audio Labs.
- Professional magazine reviews are forthcoming and will be published late winter/ early spring.
Our design team is assembling a very extensive "white paper" on our website soon (within a few weeks) outlining the technical depth of our development process, technical discoveries and unique technical refinements that encompass the Tranquility DAC and application theories
Side notes / specific answers to posters here:
SRB: Your quandary to playing back on Windows avoiding the K-mixer is an issue with all USB dac solutions using the driver you have chosen. Go to Wavelengths website and check out their step by step solution outlined for another driver you can use. Or you could update your Windows Operating System too. Did you know the later Windows OS will sound better than XP's, even with your avoiding the K-mixer with XP's OS? Feel FREE to email me for other issues to your quandary if you want to get into a USB connected / computer digital solution.
konut: We will revisit our restocking fee once we take away the $500 off introductory promotion and sell the Tranquility for the full $1495 MSRP. Currently our margin at the $995 promotion is very, very slim.
WGH: Don't forget to look for our white paper in a week or so you can get your "hard technical information".
Thanks to all on this thread for your feedback, concerns and insights. :thumb:
-
Hi Eric - glad to see you were able to jump into this thread!
A couple of quick comments...
1) Please add a signature that indicates your affiliation with an audio related company, as discussed in the "Disclosure" section of the Industry Participants policy (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41871.0)
2) You're above post is great, and I encourage you to continue responding to direct questions within this review thread. I suspect, however, at some point you may want to provide more general support oriented information. As such, I might suggest that you create an additional thread in the Product Support Threads (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=155.0) circle. (Note that industry participants can only have one thread here, so consider that when discussing multiple products.)
(You're not new here, so please pardon me if I'm repeating the obvious!)
And for what it's worth, I'm curious to someday audition your DAC as well, based on what I've heard to date, although I confess that I'd hate to give up the 24 bit capability of my current DAC, and would need to know that you support operating systems other than Windows. (It isn't clear to me whether you require/supply your own USB driver or not, but I may have missed it.) Of course, you can also put me firmly in the camp of those that want as many specs and data as I can get, even if I do let my ears be the final judge! ;)
Thanks!
Co-mod of the Critic's Cricles
-
Hello to all from dB Audio Labs :D
- Since NOS chipset architecture is built differently from a 24/192 solution, ours will "flag the computer" to automatically send the dac playback fitting its native 16 bit resolution, hence, this is how the Tranquility DAC manages to play the high rez music files from the computer.
Thanks for providing the additional information. If I understand correctly, however, the DAC will "play" (make sound) 24 bit/96 kHz files, but 24 bit is truncated to 16 bits and 96 kHz (or 88.2 to 192 kHz) is downsampled to 44.1 kHz.
-
Hi brj,
We look forward to having moderators such as yourself getting a chance to hear the Tranquility! As far as your inquiry regarding if our dac works with both Operating Systems, yes, the Tranquility DAC works with both PC and Mac without having to install anything whatsoever. Hence, it works for PC or Mac right out of the box.
As far my affiliation with dB Audio Labs, I actually wanted to post under the new user name we attempted to register under the user name - "dB Audio Labs". We've been waiting for an approval from your system to no avail. Any help here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your support!
-
Hi JonL,
Yes, you are correct in your understanding that the Tranquility dac plays the non-standard "hi rez" music files (such as 24/96, 88.2 and 192 files) with this method. Hence, the Tranquility and the computer automatically communicate into sending/receiving 16 bit information so Tranquility's NOS dac's native resolution is exactly matched.
In a nutshell, the computer ends up automatically knowing what to send the Tranquility, so the Tranquility DAC seamlessly plays all music files, regardless if they come from "Redbook" (regular CDs) or any of the hi-rez formats too.
Cheers!
Eric H
-
FYI, there is another review out on the Tranquility DAC:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rdgtl&1260416833&openflup&1&4#1
-
Ok. I ordered it on Saturday, and it arrived today (well technically Monday, I just haven't gone to bed yet) lightning fast delivery for the ol post office.
I really intended to just get it all hooked up, and then leave it play for a day or 2 and not even listen to it. But since I am new to using a mac, I have been trying to figure some stuff out... so I had to.
Anyway. Fresh out of the box, no fireworks. But I have to say, after just a few hours in on this thing, and it is starting to sound SPOOKY good. I mean, you have the title right- "Wow!" This is very exciting new addition to my setup. :thumb:
[My system is Geddes Abbey tops, on gr research dual ob servo subs, powered by the 30.2 red wine integrated, fed by tranquility dac, read off of itunes on mac mini Aiff files. Reality cable for interconnects and speaker wiring, but just an old usb 2.0 cable for the mac to dac. And I read upgrade of USB actually should make a significant improvement too. I have a nice open area it plays into, and several room treatments to give some absorption.] I had used an onix cd-5 player, which I thought was quite nice.
This was the last disc that I just listened to, when I had that spooky good experience
http://www.chesky.com/core/details.cfm?productcode=SACD323&productcategoryid=3
Audiophile Vocal Recordings
by:
Various Artists
Should have a Dodd buffer preamp in a couple weeks, which should also make some magic...
-Tony
-
Has anyone compared this USB DAC to the Wavelength Proton USB DAC?
It does 24/96 and has a headphone output and volume control for $900.
http://www.usbdacs.com/Products/Products.html
-
Hi JHM731,
To your question about the Proton, I talked with another guy who's had a ton of the USB dacs including many Wavelengths all the way up to the $3500 Crimson. He said his new Tranquility is quite a bit better than any of his old Wavelength dacs including the Crimson. And he said that the Crimson crushed the Proton sonically (it should though for 3X the price!). I must qualify I wasn't there to hear all these differences but he seemed to have turned over more rocks than myself on the varios USB dacs. I wanted him to post here but he's pretty afraid of some of the other guys attacking him due to their harshness towards my thread. I just don't understand how anyone here could be so hard on a company that brings out such an overperforming dac for so little money. At this point I'm pretty convinced the Tranquility is in a whole different league.
-
Hi JHM731,
To your question about the Proton, I talked with another guy who's had a ton of the USB dacs including many Wavelengths all the way up to the $3500 Crimson. He said his new Tranquility is quite a bit better than any of his old Wavelength dacs including the Crimson. And he said that the Crimson crushed the Proton sonically (it should though for 3X the price!). I must qualify I wasn't there to hear all these differences but he seemed to have turned over more rocks than myself on the varios USB dacs. I wanted him to post here but he's pretty afraid of some of the other guys attacking him due to their harshness towards my thread. I just don't understand how anyone here could be so hard on a company that brings out such an overperforming dac for so little money. At this point I'm pretty convinced the Tranquility is in a whole different league.
I really don't find it all that hard to understand myself at all. I see where the doubts lie very easily and they have been expressed quite often if you feel the need to try and understand them for yourself. What I won't do myself is slam a product that I myself haven't heard nor will I slam someone who has heard it. But that doesn't mean I don't have my doubts like everyone else. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
I think a lot of what some folks are calling harshness was just a repeated request for some basic information (like sample rate capability). We got that, we're over it. I hope everyone is (doesn't seem like it), and is willing to give this inexpensive NOS USB DAC a shot.
-
Frankly I can't wait to hear more about this DAC myself,,, hopefully from some knowledgable AC folks whom I know.
Cheers,
Robin
-
Well, anyone near western suburbs of Chicago, that wants to hear this thing in action?
-Tony
-
If high resolution music is downsampled to 16/44.1, how big would be the loss in sound quality?
I'm guessing the dac chip is a or several TDA1541As.
And a comparison between Tranquility and Ayre QB-9 would be interesting ...
-
Well, anyone near western suburbs of Chicago, that wants to hear this thing in action?
-Tony
I'd like to hear more of your impressions in another week or so, after you have had some time to get used to it and listen to a variety of music. :D
-
my Tranquility arrived this afternoon. I'll follow up with some initial impressions this weekend.
-
Any first impressions to report, Truant?
I have to say, although intriguing as this new DAC appears to be, it raises my skeptical eyebrow:
1. Two reviews pop up on Audiogon and Audiocircle in early December, and there's a buy-now-or-pay-50%-more sale promoted in conjunction with each of those reviews.
2. Each of those reviews touts the DAC as being clearly better than a buddy's or friend's very expensive, very well-reviewed source: on Audiocircle it's "my buddies [sic] $9K AMR player" and in the Audiogon review a friend lends the reviewer "the new berkley alpha dac that everyone is raving about".
3. The representative from the manufacturer here will not speak in plain language. Firstly, the DAC cannot receive a signal above 16/44.1, which is CD Redbook bit depth and sampling frequency. The DAC requires that the operating system down-sample any higher resolution files to the Redbook standard. So, if you have high resolution files, you won't hear the benefit. That doesn't mean that this DAC doesn't sound wonderful, but there's no need for the representative to be so circuitous in stating that. He even goes so far as to call high-resolution files "non-standard." That kind of lame spin just lights all the bulbs on my B.S. meter. Files above 16/44.1 are standard in recording studios and down-sampled when CDs are produced. They are also standard on DVDs and Blu-Ray. And they are readily available now for two-channel audio.
4. The representative won't tell us what the DAC chip is. Why so evasive? If someone opens the DAC won't the chip be sitting there--with the part number on it? Or has that been scratched off? The DAC chip is only part of the story in the overall sound of the DAC, and I fully respect the emphasis on sound quality as the most important specification, but withholding such basic information is strange. It does not inspire trust or confidence.
So, as I said, I am skeptical. I really hope I'm wrong and it's everything it's touted to be, but geez the approach to introducing it to the public leaves a lot to be desired in my book. If it is better than a $10,000 DAC for $1500 then I'll get lin line and eat my words. Happily. So I hope I'm wrong.
-
I have to say, although intriguing as this new DAC appears to be, it raises my skeptical eyebrow: ...........
newzooreview,
Your very well organized post seems to be in agreement with my comments and observations in my previous posts, so my question to you is this:
Aside from the 2 reviews, what exactly is it that you find intriguing about this new DAC?
Steve
-
Hi newzooreview,
Your skepticism about our new product and our "different approach" is completely understandable. Let me try to give you some more information for each of the points you outlined to allay your concerns about db Audio Labs and what we are all about.
1. The reviews on these threads are just starting to pop up in December because we just launched this company and it's product at the RMAF show this October. We are very new indeed. Customers and audiophiles auditioning and buying the Tranquility DAC have only been able to acquire one for a few months.
2. I cannot speak for each poster's opinion of the Tranquility. That is their point to answer. I can say though that we developed this Tranquility with the sole purpose of resetting the bar for what you can get sonically for your money anywhere near we are selling it for. As for being equal to anything at the $10K level, I would never even consider saying something like that one myself. I'm hoping that the feedback from others to show the product is completely unique for them performance wise. Hello new Tranquility owners? I know it's the Christmas time of the year but some posters here really want to hear from you. BTW: Danny of GR Research has also said very good things about the Tranquility's performance here on this forum, so these accolades are not singular by any means.
3. I thought I finally answered everyone's concern "in plain language" about the fact that our dac is NOT a 24/192 dac. Per the previous page -"The "NOS" DAC we use has 16 bit internal native resolution". Everyone, please let me know if you need more. I'll say it anyway you want to hear it six ways to sundown! I did decide to call higher rez music files "non standard" since 99% of all music in the world is being offered to us at this rate. Of course, you are very correct that in the studios it is recorded at higher rates. It's just that 99% of music we can actually buy is currently offered in 16 bit CD format. Perhaps I should have just wrote the term "99%" instead of "non standard". That is what I actually wanted to imply anyway. I am hoping (just like many of us) that the core music industry starts offering all of us high rez. Anything to help us to improve our treasured source recordings would be wonderful!
4. I am not refusing to reveal the dac chip per say, as it is a "NOS dac" chipset. There are only a few different choices that any manufacturer could use (in case you were not aware). We do reserve the right as a company though to decide where we draw the line with letting everyone know our own discoveries to the what and how we achieved what we did. Most importantly, we are hanging our entire reputation on the heroic sonic performance we achieved with our design choices. In our professional opinion, audiophile manufacturers have been "pulling the wool" over many audiophiles for years by "touting the tech" and having audiophiles then believe they achieved something uniquely special just with "tech talk". Aren't some of you guys getting tired of the broken promises being blindsided by some new "high tech discovery" only to want to sell that newfangled product very soon after? You were convinced to buy it just by the "tech talk", yet it wasn't the actual sonic breakthrough you thought it would be. What ever happened to an audiophile company proving their product with head to head listening comparatives against the other choices? Hence, the "best sounding dac is the winner". Did we get lost somewhere with all this tech analysis versus listening comparatives? dB Audio Labs wants to inspire confidence with audiophiles the old fashion way, by earning it through the actual proof of the product's performance. Anything else is just conjecture, speculation and hype.
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
-
A pretty straight foward post Eric, you have me wishing my system was geared towards a standalone DAC so I could try one out. Everything you say is spot-on and while the few individuals here those posts are Hi-Rez oriented, most digital audiophiles listen to the simple industry standard CD or are downloading lossless CD-quality 16/44.1 which is afterall what your DAC is geared for. From what I've seen, that is your only claim and it's your claim that your DAC does this better than most and w/o the bells & whistles that it can do more than just 16/44.1 which most DAC's on the market have but what most audiophiles will never use anyways,, at least not yet.
Thou I'm not likely to ever be in the market for a standalone DAC of any make, I'm also curious to hear from those who are trying out your product and if the consensus opinions are that it's as good as Danny says, I sure hope you can make a go of it in this uncertain time. Good luck Eric. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
I just purchased the Tranquility Dac and have listened to it for several hours in my system. It is tough during the holidays to find the time for long auditioning sessions so these comments are based on an hour or 2 over several days.
Initial impressions are it is very very good in my system and that is with a less than optimal set up. I am using a generic USB cable as that is only what I have currently available (better one on order). Right now the server is a pc running foobar through kmixer. I intend to switch to a mac mini sometime after the holidays.
I have directly compared the Tranquility to a Monarchy Audio NM24 fed ascyncronously via an M2tec hiface USB converter feeding the Monarchy in kernal streaming mode. I have had the Monarchy for 2 years and it is very good particularly with the ascync USB converter. Using the tube dac directly connected to my redwine audio signature 30.2, I have been getting a very listenable result that is analogue like with sweet highs, great transparency, and excellent tone. The Tranquility has the same great tone and it is very analog like, despite not having a tube based output. I have concluded it has superior detail and pratt to the Monarchy. The music seems to flow with a more lively pace with the Tranquility if that makes sense. That's how I hear it anyway. The one area where the Tranquility seems to fall short in comparison is soundstage depth. It is good but not as deep as the Monarchy. I hope to see an improvement in this area with the USB cable upgrade. We shall see.
I only have positive things to say about my experiences with Eric. He spent a lot of time answering my questions about the dac via email and on the phone. It was the personal touch and fact that he really knew his product inside and out that convinced me to jump in and give it a listen The dac was delivered 3 days after I ordered it.
I like the simplicity of a set up with a USB dac fed by a compact computer source into a good integrated amp. My sense is that with good quality cables (USB and interconnects), the Tranquility dac will do it for me. I like what I hear. The upgrade bug is satisfied for the time being. Time to focus on finding some good music.
-
Dear srb,
I'm simply intrigued by the claims at face value. It is certainly possible that someone could design a DAC that sounds terrific for a very reasonable cost. And if it's designed from the ground up as USB only then it would be tailored to my needs (feeding it with a MacBook music server).
My current DAC does not have a good USB receiver, and since I just got my new Salk HT1-TLs I'm looking upstream to be sure that I'm feeding the Salks the best I can.
-
Dear richny,
I can recommend the Virtue Audio USB cable. Even though my DAC doesn't have a great USB receiver, it provided a noticeable improvement over my standard computer USB cable. Much better space between the instruments, bass definition, and overall clarity. I suspect that a high quality cable will help with the sound staging. Probably any number of well-made USB cables will give an improvement. I'll be curious to hear about the Tranquility DAC with the cable upgrade.
http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-usb-nrv.htm
-
Dear Eric,
Thank you for your detailed response. I do look forward to hearing more from the early-adopters as well.
Regarding high-resolution files, I just calculated that 1.3% of my music files are above Redbook resolution. This tracks with your 99% Redbook figure, but I interpret the data much differently than you do. The more salient statistic is that in the last 8 months, 21% of the music that I've added to my library has been high resolution. That's 177 tracks out of 863.
And I don't think I'm alone--you're marketing a $1500 USB-only DAC, e.g. an audiophile DAC for people running their stereos from a computer-based music server. That's a niche market. In that market, people are buying a much larger proportion of high-resolution files than the overall distribution indicates. And in 2010, most people who will be looking to upgrade the DACs for their music servers will want something that isn't obsolete out of the box.
I would love to hear your DAC, and as skeptical as I have been I wouldn't be surprised if it bettered my current DAC on Redbook files. But when I go to spend my $1500 next year, it would be hard for me to not buy something that will give me better than Redbook sound and not waste the money I have spent on better source material. I don't think anyone would argue that all things being equal, a high resolution version of any song is going to sound better. Folks who have the high resolution version of Fleetwood Mac's Rumours, for example, would not want to settle for the Redbook version.
-
WE WILL PUSH HARD FOR THE COMPARATIVES!
Yep, you will certainly need to because right now, it only appears to be a NOS DAC in a box (not exactly groundbreaking information). If your mission statement is to win on sound and that is the only real "information" with which to be judged, then right now you would have to concede that there is very little "information" out there regarding your product.
As you probably know, mainstream media does not provide proper comparatives (Stereophile, Absolute Sounds, Tone Audio, etc...). Products in the same price range are just simply not compared and if they are, no real conclusions are drawn regarding comparisons. Similar products are often presented as viable alternatives to each other.
Only a week left in the current year. Perhaps you will need to extend the $500 off grace period beyond the new year to get more listeners who can provide their experiences or "information". :D
DB Audio Labs, good luck to you and congratulations on the launch of your product. I really hope it is the market adjuster that it is being claimed to be.
PS. I seek sound that is more real rather than more information in bits...so, I'm definitely in your corner.
-
Thanks newzooreview for the USB cable suggestion. I had already decided to go for the poleima by Ridge Street Audio which is quite a bit more expensive but I think this dac is worth the best cable I can afford at this time to use with it. I expect to see a significant improvement with this cable and with some break-in with the dac. You can tell right out of the box that this dac is special. It captures the sound of cymbals the best I have heard to date and its tone is spot on.
There is quite a debate ongoing about hi-rez files. Since I purchased the Tranquility, it is no surprise I am looking to get the best sound possible out of 44.1. I have been really surprised at how good an NOS dac can sound. This is not my first. I have the Monarchy and I bought a Valab and modified it (there is a lot about that on the head fi forums). I did it just for fun to see what was possible. It really performed way beyond its price point with a low jitter source. At its best, it does not even come close to the Tranqulity. The DB Audio group seems to have figured out how to deliver a more refined high end. While I don't doubt that hi-rez has its incremental sonic improvements, it is pretty amazing what you can get out of plain old 44.1 with well designed equipment.
-
Thanks, richny. Just to give you an idea of where I'm at, I am currently using a PS Audio DL III with Level 3 mods from Cullen Circuits. That's connected by USB to my MacBook, and I'm convinced that the USB receiver of the PS Audio is the weak link. It's not asynchronous and the jitter is therefore not well controlled.
My first step is to get a HiFace. That is on the way and should solve the USB weak spot by giving me bit-perfect, low jitter output of any sampling rate that I have. The DAC can receive 24/192, so no limitations there.
I am eyeing an updgrade, however, since DAC technology evolves rapidly and my new Salk speakers will benefit from the best possible source. Options are
1. The upcoming Wyred4Sound DAC-1: Wyred4Sound is run by the guy who did the upgrades on my DL III, and he uses a DL III in his system. So, his DAC-1 will be designed to better the DL III. It will use the new Sabre 32-bit DAC and an asynchronous USB interface. It will take 24/192 input from the computer. So, it's a top contender right now since Wyred4Sound knows how to design robust power supplies and good circuits to get the best out of a DAC chip.
2. The new Audio by Van Alstine Vision DAC. This would require that I use the HiFace since the DAC will only have coax (and optical) inputs. However, my Salk speakers were designed using the Van Alstine Insight DAC, and I've heard it first hand and know it is excellent. Frank Van Alstine thinks his new DAC is significantly better, so again that's a trustable reference point to me. Van Alstine also has a strong track record in top notch power supplies and circuits. The only limitation with the Vision DAC is that I would have to open it and change a jumper to play 24/192. It plays everything below 24/192 without moving the jumper, so the trade-off may be ok.
3. This Tranquility DAC. I know that Redbook can sound wonderful and musical and fully satisfying. And the design is otherwise tuned to my use (USB connection). And the preliminary comments that are more sober in tone (such as yours) appear to support that the DAC is quite good and may be something special (I used to have a Red Wine Audio amp and RWA also sells NOS DACs and I respect Vinnie's judgment on good sound). So, I'm keeping it in mind, but I find the ga ga gushy marketing and first-up user reviews a little off putting.
-
Plink, you hit the nail on the head: the timeframe on the $500 discount is too tight. It's only been a couple of weeks that there has been any serious feedback on the Internet about this DAC. If the discount were available through the end of January so that a critical mass of early reports could come in then dB Audio would stand a much better chance of building a critical mass of vocal and supportive early adopters. They are going to need to build that group because they are competing in a very tight field at the $1500 price point.
I do wish them well despite my criticisms, but they need to give some more breathing room to cement their reputation, I think.
-
...... This would require that I use the HiFace since the DAC will only have coax (and optical) inputs.
Hi newzoo,
Are you sure you need that HiFace for the Van Alstine DAC if it has optical input? Couldn't you use the optical that comes directly from the MacBook? I have heard people say the optical from MacBook is as good, if not better, than the USB interface.
Cheers
Will
-
Dear Will2,
Not to get too far off topic, but the issue for me is jitter control. There is no jitter control over the Toslink output as far as I understand, and there can be very good control of jitter over USB with one of the recent software implementations (the stuff that Wavelength Audio does and the drivers that are used with the HiFace and will be used with the Wyred4Sound DAC-1). Reports from folks who have compared Toslink to synchronous USB to asynchronous (jitter controlled) USB seem to universally prefer the latter. I haven't done that comparison, but that is the direction that I'm hunting for better sound.
If the HiFace USB to Coax doesn't sound better than the optical or built-in USB input on my DAC, then I'll know to look elsewhere for improvement.
To connect back to this post: this is another area where more detailed information on the Tranquility DAC would help. It should be possible to say something concrete about their approach to controlling jitter over the USB connection, including some measurement of the result.
They keep saying that the proof is in the sound, but the problem I have with that is that in order to integrate a component into my system to get the best sound I need to know something about how it operates. For example, if there is some technology in play that produces very low jitter in the USB receiver on the Tranquility then knowing something about that will help be make better choices in using the device. It may inform me, for example, about the possible benefit of an upgraded USB cable or changing settings in my computer. It may also help me understand what the source of a problem may be if I have one. If I understand the technology then I can get the most out of my investment. If I can't get any info then I feel, and I am, constrained in my ability to use it to best effect.
dB Audio needs to understand that telling your potential customers about the technical details of the product and placing the emphasis on the sound quality are not mutually exclusive. You need to talk about both, for valid reasons. At least to attract my business you do.
-
A further question for dB Audio Eric.
Over on Audiogon, dB Audio asserts that USB is a great digital source because the data stream can be dissociated from the clock information (eliminating the typically high jitter from the computer's world clock).
As I posted over on Audiogon:
Can you explain how you go from USB input to IIS (I2S) without introducing timing or clock information?
For background, here's the Wikipedia overview of I2S:
"I2S, also known as Inter-IC Sound, Integrated Interchip Sound, or IIS, is an electrical serial bus interface standard used for connecting digital audio devices together. It is most commonly used to carry PCM information between the CD transport and the DAC in a CD player. The I2S bus separates clock and data signals, resulting in a very low jitter connection. Jitter can cause distortion in a digital-to-analog converter. The bus consists of at least three lines:
1. Bit clock line
2. Word clock line (also called word select line or left right clock)
3. And at least one multiplexed data line"
There is both a bit clock and world clock line in the specification. How do you take a USB digital feed, ignore the associated clock info from the computer (which is poorly controlled and introduces jitter if used) and add in the clock info needed for IIS (I2S) going into the DAC?
You act like USB is great since you can just take the data stream and ignore the high jitter in the poor clock signal from the computer. But not so fast. You still need clock info to be associated with the data for the DAC to make sense of it.
How do YOU solve this problem? How is your solution better or comparable to what others have done?
I'm prepared to hear that you have a great solution, but I would like to understand it. Understanding it might help me should I own your DAC: maybe your solution means that changing or upgrading my USB cable is not a tweak that I need to explore. Maybe it will implicate other choices in system setup. Maybe it will build my trust in the innovations that you claim in the whole design of the DAC.
For cross reference, please check out the white papers that Ayre has published on the topic of asynchronous USB.
-
For the guys hung up on there is only "2 reviews", it seems to be overlooking Danny Richie of Gr research spoke very highly of it after using it in his room at RMAF he bought it himself. (And commented on it earlier in this thread)
This is what gave me the confidence to order it to give it a try. I would have waited for more feedback to come out on it, but I wanted to take advantage of the intro price. So I bought mine -so the limited time intro price offer did work for them. But it sounds like they actually want to make some money on the product and need the price to be higher. I guess they feel that they sold enough units. But if you are on the fence there is still time.
To those worried about not knowing enough about the internals of the DAC to set up your system optimally. Eric has been willing to share all kinds of optimization recommendations and answer questions about what he thinks works best and why.
It sounds like there is a restocking fee at this price, but probably not at the regular price? If correct, for those who are interested, but have a lot of concerns, to buy it with a free return policy seems like the best option for you.
(PS -when was there a 50% discount?!? I wish I would have been able to take advantage of that!)
Tony
*edit*
Sorry - didn't see that db audio mentioned Danny's feedback already
-
Hi newzooreview,
Per your inquiry about the Audiogon poster's question, here is a re-print of my answer for him. -
Sure we can explain the I2S area within the dac and USB's inherent timing/jitter advantages.
In a nutshell, USB interconnectivity does NOT carry timing from the computer, it just carries a "start of frame" signal to let the dac know when to start and buffered packets of music data. So, unlike other connection schemes (SPDIF), you do NOT have jitter induced at the transport or through the USB cable (which is a HUGE improvement comparably...when USB is done correctly). Then you are at the receiver portion of the DAC itself where the timing (and potential jitter may happen). A local oscillator approximate to the receiver provides the timing for the dac process. All of the potential timing issues are related to this area alone (when done right). The choice of the oscillator itself, the way that oscillator is configured, optimized, connected and powered will determine how much jitter is then introduced. With EXTREMELY careful optimization it can really good compared to most other digital solutions, especially SPDIF. There has been so much mis-information about SPDIF being "the best connection" as compared to USB that I think it's about time we really sit down and re-analyze how this came to be. It's just not the case. Then again, there's allot of USB dacs done wrong. Could that be why so many think SPDIF was superior?
So, in essence, jitter is never at zero in the entire solution (as you alluded). It is just down to one singular area (which SPDIF can never even hope to emulate comparably). Once this area is extremely optimized the jitter is managed much better than most other digital solutions.
Of course we like to still point out that the actual proof comes from the sound improvement in any connection scheme. Anything other type of analysis other than an actual true improvement in sound quality is just utter speculation, hype and tech-babble! As compared to other digital solutions, the Tranquility DAC captures and conveys the very elusive harmonic cues much closer to an analog solution. There is a naturalness that most digital struggles to convey particularly in the treble region. This is our "proof" as compared to most other digital solutions. The sound improvement itself.
Eric H - Merry Christmas to all :thumb:
-
Merry Christmas, Eric. Thanks for the explanation.
-
Okay, I've had my Tranquility a week. I meant to post after the first weekend but so much going on right now. I'm waiting for a plane at the moment so should have a few moments to get into some first impressions. I'm still just under the 100 hrs Eric suggests for burn in. I've been using the mhdt Havana for the past six months or so between my MacBook and amp. I have a pretty simple set up comprised of an LFD Zero integrated amp and Vandersteen 1C loudspeakers. Other than the laptop I have a Funk Firm Vector turntable. Cables include a Locus Design Polestar usb, Pure Note Alluvion PCs and ICs and LFD speaker cable. While I liked the Havana I knew I wanted something better, something closer to the sound of my turntable. Something that might challenge my vinyl experience. My initial impression is that the Tranquility gets very close. It'll take some more time to discern how close. The first thing that struck me listening to this dac is the air, the sense of the space in the music. The music is much less congested through this dac than through my Havana. Also, the tone seems more accurate and real. Saxophones sound great. Joe Lovano sounded so fresh and new last night. Acoustic bass...wow. I feel incredibly lucky to have stumbled on this dac when I did. I haven't heard many dacs and prior to this have only owned the Havana and one of the Channel Island dacs so my experience is limited...here's my plane. Gotta go. More soon.
-
I had a very good phone call with Eric Hider today. It's obvious to me that he (and the dB Audio team) are quite knowledgeable about DACs and computer audio. We had a wide-ranging technical discussion about the control of jitter, the advantages of USB (when correctly implemented), why keeping everything at Redbook bit depth and sampling rates can sound better than upsampling/oversampling, the advantages of NOS dacs, and how to setup a Mac to get the best digital out. Much of what we discussed tracked with what I've picked up reading through forums or figured out for myself. And I also learned a few things.
Eric described the process they used to evaluate the choice of components for the Tranquility DAC (blind A/B testing on a variety of systems), and he noted that they went through several dozen capacitors this way to settle on the Mundorf that they use. None of this tells me how the DAC will sound to me, in my system, but I got the clear impression that they have been taking a careful, informed, and rational approach to apply some insights that they have as engineers to come up with a DAC that is unique in design and sound.
In contradiction to my earlier hesitation to buy a DAC that didn't accept hi-resolution files at their native resolution (e.g. without downsampling in the computer), I've gone ahead and ordered a Tranquility DAC. My change of heart results from two things: 1) I read through Danny Ritchie's posts around Audio Circle, and he seems truly impressed with the Tranquility DAC (beyond the other strong reviews that have come in); and 2) I do not reject the idea that with good engineering, Redbook coming from a computer can sound like good vinyl. Sounding like good vinyl is the reason I have been interested in the hi-resolution files. If point #2 turns out to be the case, then I won't miss the ability to play the high resolution files at native resolution. Yes, I do expect that a DAC that plays high-resolution files at their native resolution could end up sounding even better than vinyl, but if I can get 99% of my music sounding up to vinyl playback quality then I can live with that--it is not something that I've heard out of DACs that I've tried so far.
I'll be comparing the Tranquility DAC to a PS Audio DL III (with Cullen Level III modifications), fed from a MacBook via a HiFace (M2Tech) USB to Coax converter. With the burn-in required (about 10 days on 24 hrs./day), and considering my travel schedule in January, I may not have anything concrete to say for 3-4 weeks, but I'll try to report back.
It may turn out that my initial misgivings were well founded, and it may be that the guys at dB Audio are onto something. After speaking with Eric, I'm much more inclined to think that the latter could be the case, but I'll come back when I have some real listening to report on.
These are fun times for computer-based audio! 8)
-
Hello all,
Thanks to everyone for their support and constructive feedback!
In good a good gesture of faith to Audio Circle members, we will allow you a special discount of $200 off when our MSRP price of $1495 and offer it to all of you for $1295. This applies to AC members only.
To directly answer the statement made by Plink - "it only appears to be a NOS DAC in a box (not exactly groundbreaking information)". So Plink, here ya go;
- Attention to jitter control and reduction is done at every digital pathway with node interactivity in mind.
- The receiver section is optimized with components and pathway optimization that are unlike any other NOS dac.
- The digital NOS chip has further optimizations around it along with I to V stage optimizations totally unique.
- The entire power supply and regulation both have proprietary optimizations unlike anything in the market.
- The output section is truly discrete, with hand matched and trimmed devices that are run for many hours before finalization of the gain stage. It would not be out of place as a gain stage within a $5,000 pre-amp. Truly transparent and sonically natural from top to bottom. (No cheap op amps here!)
- The output Mundorf Supreme capacitors were selected after hundreds of hours listening and evaluating over 60 capacitors of all types and prices in double blind scenarios on many systems with many ears and types of music.
- The direct plated over copper output jacks are considered one of the most transparent sounding jacks ever made (This is actually rare! Just another one of the MANY components where other "high end audio" companies "cheap you guys out" for their own bottom line profits!).
- We actually built a high tech Sabre chip dac to sonically compare the Tranquility against to demonstrate to ourselves that we were not missing anything sonically with our NOS design, actually sounding superior to the Sabre dac verifying the Tranquility's design and it's overall sonic integrity.
These are some of the things that set the Tranquility apart from any other dac design, NOS or otherwise. It has no cost cutting short cuts, no cheap parts or features that "hold it back" sonically. Equal to or better sound for a fraction of the cost of the "big boy" statement level dacs was our design goal. We wanted to shake up the digital world by offering hard core music lovers something they can actually afford, yet get the heroic performance of the most expensive digital for a fraction of the cost. It's all about careful design decisions, years of R & D, innovative optimizations and top quality parts throughout to get this done correctly.
Again though, we are not about the "tech talk"or "parts talk". We are about proving ourselves through actual sonic advancements offering you guys much of the elusive details that analog conveys that digital has comparably lacked. :thumb:
Happy Holidays to all!
Eric H
-
eric, when will you have something comparable for us neanderthals that don't think they will be going to computer audio anytime soon?
doug s.
-
Dear Doug,
The problem, in my view, is that all things being equal, a DAC fed by S/PDIF from a CD player won't sound as good as a DAC fed by well-implemented firewire or usb from a computer.
When a music file is read from a hard drive, the hard drive accurately sends every bit from the original sound file to the computer (and the computer sends it out to the DAC without loss of information). When a CD player reads a CD it does not extract every bit of the sound file--it pulls data off in streaming mode, in real time, and when read errors occur the missing data is simply interpolated. The CD does not re-read like a hard drive will do to extract the data accurately. So, as a source the CD will always compromise the data to some extent.
In addition, the control of jitter over S/PDIF is not great. It's inherently a problem. Eric has alluded to this, but it's not an opinion unique to dB Audio Labs. Ayre, in their white paper on their own USB DAC, explicitly states that they have never offered a stand-alone DAC before since they felt that S/PDIF did not allow sufficient control of jitter. Until their USB DAC they felt that they could only get the best sound from designing the DAC together with the CD transport where they could essentially take the I2S feed from the CD directly to the DAC.
So, two advantages to the Tranquility DAC would be missing if it received input by coax from a CD player.
Obviously there are a lot of well-regarded DACs that do receive S/PDIF input, but it may not be possible to better them (or rival them at substantially lower cost) unless the limitations of CD source and S/PDIF connection are eliminated. In other words the S/PDIF version of the Tranquility DAC would not be the same creature that is getting good comments (or at least generating buzz).
-
Hello, and sorry for the late arrival to the thread!
Just checked out the web site a little further and was wondering if there is an online ordering/payment system available or if all orders are done by telephone only. I wouldn't want to miss out on the introductory offer if I can't get in touch during normal business hours.
Thanks!
-
Hi Doug S.,
We have been working our "R & D tails off" attempting to develop a SPDIF connectable dac that comes close or equals the sonics of our Tranquility USB dac. As Newzooreview correctly pointed out, SPDIF is a mess when compared to a USB dac (done right). SPDIF pales in comparison to a USB connection, how it elegantly transfers it's data and the error corrected bit perfect sound that a computer offers us. Jitter is on so many more nodes throughout the SPDIF process too, it's not even funny. We like to call SPDIF "an ugly tangled mess". With the SPDIF format, you end up "interleaving" the clock signal with the digital music signal. ARGH! It then has to be all "untangled". USB is elegantly simple without this "tangled mess" comparably.
We are still quite surprised that the audio reviewer community still does not seem to understand this basic principal regarding how SPDIF can't really hold a candle to USB done right. Unless perhaps you use Esoteric's $15,000 Rubidium clock "fixer", and even then, it is NOT a better interface even with $15K "fixer" when compared to a USB solution done correctly! Of course, not every USB dac is "done right" either. And then there's the overtly simplistic idea of comparing the different inputs on a dac that has both USB and SPDIF connections. Multiple digital inputs affect each other negatively. Each one has to be optimized to sound great. And you can NOT achieve multiple different digital inputs that all sound great without a huge cost to the consumer. Each digital input circuit would need to be separated from the other with tons of costly circuitry. Otherwise, the USB input on a multiple input dac can sound abysmal. Is this why so many audiophiles and reviewers think SPDIF is superior?
Ever wonder why the Tranquility dac has only one solitary USB digital input? Now you know aa
So, where do we personally stand on our upcoming SPDIF dac? We are still in the R & D phase. We have many more challenges to properly address all of SPDIF's inherent weaknesses but we are finding some promising results. There are some new IC's that we are testing along with some newfound proprietary optimizations that we discovered. In the end though, we will NOT release a SPDIF dac until we can find the same elusive analog like harmonic structure we found for the Tranquility USB dac design. Look for an upcoming announcement regarding our SPDIF dac late this winter. Sorry we can't give a firm timeline here. We will not offer another "typical sounding" SPDIF dac. It will have to be special.
Happy New Year to all!
Eric H
-
hi eric,
thanks for your detailed reply. i was hoping that, due to new proprietary technology inside your dac, that it would be more immune to typical spdif issues. have you tried glass toslink connections? i know there is disagreement on this, but a lot of folks say that, when done right, it is better than wire.
anyway, i am waiting to hear something that will give a noticeable improvement to my old faithful standby, my modded art di/o. i have heard several mega-dollar digital set-up, none offer any improvements. and, while i have not heard spendy nos dacs, i have not preferred the typical soft, less-detailed sound of nos. so, i would love to find something that doesn't break the bank that will provide a real sonic improvement. :wink: of course, i want it all - spdif and usb in the same box, so as to have future options... and, make it $500... :lol:
hippo gnu ears to all,
doug s.
-
Hi Doug? Which NOS DAC's have you heard? dB audio does have the trial policy so you could always buy it, try it out, and if it is not your cup of tea you can send it back.
-
Hi Doug? Which NOS DAC's have you heard? dB audio does have the trial policy so you could always buy it, try it out, and if it is not your cup of tea you can send it back.
frankly, my nos dac experience has been limited. i have only heard the audio mirror nos dac for any extended time. but, extrapolating on what others have said about this dac, and reading about the sonic signature of nos dacs in general - which the a-m dac certainly had - it wasn't really my cuppa. re: trying the db-audio dac, i might be tempted if i could hook my audio alchemy transport to it. :wink:
doug s.
-
frankly, my nos dac experience has been limited. i have only heard the audio mirror nos dac for any extended time. but, extrapolating on what others have said about this dac, and reading about the sonic signature of nos dacs in general - which the a-m dac certainly had - it wasn't really my cuppa. re: trying the db-audio dac, i might be tempted if i could hook my audio alchemy transport to it. :wink:
doug s.
Doug, sounds like you would be pleasently surprised by the Tranquility's performance and its convenience considering your limited experience with NOS DAC's.
-
Doug, sounds like you would be pleasently surprised by the Tranquility's performance and its convenience considering your limited experience with NOS DAC's.
it's not at all conwenient for me, as i don't have anything adequate to give it a signal. which is why i queried eric about an spdif wersion...
doug s.
-
Dear Doug,
I understand the desire to stick with a known source and upgrade the sound via an external DAC. It's been a couple of years since I've moved over to a computer for a source, and it takes some time and fiddling. My transport hopelessly broke, and I'm good with computers, so it was not a hard decision, however. And the results are terrific.
The tools for getting excellent sound from a computer source have improved dramatically in the last two years, and the Tranquility, Ayre, Wavelength, and upcoming Wyred4Sound DACs (among others) are paying critical attention to the details that matter. It is now possible to routinely get better sound from a computer-based system (at lower overall cost) than from a transport-based system; and you get the tremendous convenience and protection from media damage in the bargain. I think that 2010 will see an acceleration in folks moving their high-end two channel systems to computer sources.
One way to look at it would be that now is the time to get maximum value out of your transport and make the switch. 8)
-
I'm another late arrival to this thread. I've been lurking through the whole thing, but didn't want to jump in and risk being labelled (libeled?) as a shill or seem argumentative. Since the thread has calmed down and most of the tech issues have been addressed I'd like to add my $.02.
I shared a room with Danny Richie and Gary dodd at RMAF. It was my first venture into the show circuit and I was quite concerned when I found out that everything in the rrom was going to be prototypes except for my products and everything was pretty much going to be battery powered. My fears were baseless. We had a terriffic sound in the rrom and garnered quite a few accolades from the media press.
One of the major players was the Tranquility DAC. I've lived with a Cary 306-200 as my source since they first came out. It sounds fabulous. I have to admit that the Tranquility DAC is better in the HF presentation than the Cary. It NEVER sounded hard or etched in the system. Soundstage was superb (Gary Dodd's stereo amp is flawless) and the bass through the Super V speakers was tuneful as well as possessing unbelieveable impact. female vocals were sweet and wonderful, while Larry Carlton and Robben Ford's guitars sounded like PAF pickups through Dumble amps... just like they should. To say I was impressed would be an understatement.
Paired with the Ridge Street USB cable resulted in amazing music, not merely high end sound. That is the greatest compliment that I can pay to any system.
I just sold my Cary and the dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC is on my short list for purchase after I recover from Christmas. What else can I say?
I like it.
Dave
-
Thanks to everyone for their support and constructive feedback!
I appreciate your willingness to reach out to the AC community and provide us with information regarding your exciting new product.
-
Looks like Eric shipped mine today. Should be here before the weekend. It needs about 200 hours for full break-in, but I might give some first impressions on Sunday. I like to listen to music when I watch football rather than the commentators. :)
-
Over the last few weeks I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard from the Tranquility. I no longer feel nearly as alone as I did in the beginning. The skeptics had their say and now other people are reporting in with results that absolutely support my conclusions. I hope the others here will start finding out for themselves and be on board so they can enjoy it as much as I did.
Tom
-
I should have mine before the weekend as well. Will report sometime next week.
-
Hello all.
I split out the mini-debate on break-in and moved it to the IGWB, as it was distracting from the focus of this particular thread. A certain amount of wandering off-topic is fine, but please try to keep the thread focus in mind when making posts, and start a new thread in the appropriate forum if needed.
Thanks!
-
Over the last few weeks I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard from the Tranquility. I no longer feel nearly as alone as I did in the beginning. The skeptics had their say and now other people are reporting in with results that absolutely support my conclusions. I hope the others here will start finding out for themselves and be on board so they can enjoy it as much as I did.
Tom
I keep reading this thread and keep hearing about how there were so many skeptics early on. ?? I was one of several who were vocal early on...not at all skeptical though.....we were just pleading for some basic information about sample rates. Once that info was released I, for one, have been very pleased to read of its prowess and sonics. I own the Weiss DAC2, and if this DAC can provide a better musical experience (for 90% of my Mac-based server collection) then I'm all ears. I have a great respect for Mundorf (my SP Tech crossovers are all-Mundorf), for example. I have several PM's into Eric with no response yet.
-
Hi guys,
It looks like a couple people attempted to message me on my old "ehider" moniker link. Unfortunately, I have transitioned to AC's - "db audio labs" message link and didn't think to check my old personal link. ARGH! I apologize to the couple of the AC members who have been waiting. In the future, you can reach me either at ehider@me.com or the "db audio labs" message link here on AC.
For anyone attending CES, please feel free to call the phone number listed on the dbaudiolabs website. That one leads directly to my cell phone during the show. Perhaps we could share a drink and share our audiophile coming of age stories? I will be all over the CES show this year ;-)
Happy Listening to all!
Eric H
-
Eric,
Thanks for the PM. I'll try to find you at CES to buy you a "congrats, and my condolences for starting a new business" drink. :) (just kidding about the condolences part.....kind of).
-
Looking at the current issue of the Absolute Sound on page 74 it appears that Steven Stone put the Tranquility DAC on his short list of "must-audition" components.
It was part of the RMAF show coverage report.
Oddly, the room was called the GR Acoustics room. :(
That's okay though. They got it right three other times in other places in the magazine where the system in the GR Research room was mentioned, including one calling it the "Greatest Bargain" at the show. :thumb:
-
Looking at the current issue of the Absolute Sound on page 74 it appears that Steven Stone put the Tranquility DAC on his short list of "must-audition" components.
It was part of the RMAF show coverage report.
Oddly, the room was called the GR Acoustics room. :(
That's okay though. They got it right three other times in other places in the magazine where the system in the GR Research room was mentioned, including one calling it the "Greatest Bargain" at the show. :th
Maybe he got that from the treatment that I did in the room... who knows? It did sound really good. Great to be in there with the fun bunch. The dB Audio DAC was a big part of the sound. System synergy is what makes things work and we did hit that combination in our room.
Dave
-
The dB Audio DAC was a big part of the sound.
We've got to cut Steven Stone some slack, Dave. Anyone can misquote the name. It's dB Labs. ;)
Steve
-
We've got to cut Steven Stone some slack, Dave. Anyone can misquote the name. It's dB Labs. ;)
Steve
I am so bad! I knew that... I think... :oops: Duh on me.
Dave
-
I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard...The skeptics had their say.
And that is what an open forum is...the exchange of ideas and information. I appreciate your enthusiasm, its your approach that I question. Please don't tell me that your new DAC trounces other DACs that you have not DBT. I am happy that you found a component at a competitive price point that has you excited about audio.
-
Over the last few weeks I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard from the Tranquility. I no longer feel nearly as alone as I did in the beginning. The skeptics had their say and now other people are reporting in with results that absolutely support my conclusions. I hope the others here will start finding out for themselves and be on board so they can enjoy it as much as I did.
Tom
The initial problem was your original review didn't say much at all. I have read this complete thread but did read the first page of posts that started it all. Sure, you're not a professional reviewer, not that they do much better to be honest. People we're not being skeptics as you put it. They were not at all skeptical of how good the DAC is. They were being critical of your review and were a bit sarcastic about it IMO. And they called out the fact that the website had zero information about the product. And still doesn't near as I can tell. For that reason alone, I would never buy a product like this from someone who's business model can't even support publishing even basic information on a website.
-
For that reason alone, I would never buy a product like this from someone who's business model can't even support publishing even basic information on a website.
Just an observation from an industry professional whose website also doesn't have much info, if I may.
I have, over the period of many years, developed products that do not, to my knowledge, use technology like ANYONE else's in the industry. My products perform as well as or better than anyone elses' products, at any pricepoint. I go out of my way to protect the technology used in my products while going through the patent process. My units are sealed and potted to keep people out for a reason: too many people are willing to rip intellectual property off for their own gain. Weasels and sleezy people are everywhere, especially in the audio industry. Like Eric, I am willing to tell people what my product does, but won't tell anyone how it does it. It is none of their dam*ed business, to be quite blunt about it. I make a living doing what I do. I don't need to be anyones' teacher or gravy train.
I don't blame them at all about being vague about their DAC. I've heard it and it kicks butt. That is all I need to know. They have to feed their families, not anyone elses. No one is "entitled" to know anything about proprietary technology.
YMMV
Dave
-
Just an observation from an industry professional whose website also doesn't have much info, if I may.
I have, over the period of many years, developed products that do not, to my knowledge, use technology like ANYONE else's in the industry. My products perform as well as or better than anyone elses' products, at any pricepoint. I go out of my way to protect the technology used in my products while going through the patent process. My units are sealed and potted to keep people out for a reason: too many people are willing to rip intellectual property off for their own gain. Weasels and sleezy people are everywhere, especially in the audio industry. Like Eric and Larry, I am willing to tell people what my product does, but won't tell anyone how it does it. It is none of their dam*ed business, to be quite blunt about it. I make a living doing what I do. I don't need to be anyones' teacher or gravy train.
I don't blame them at all about being vague about their DAC. I've heard it and it kicks butt. That is all I need to know. They have to feed their families, not anyone elses. No one is "entitled" to know anything about proprietary technology.
YMMV
Dave
To me the specifics can be vague, but not giving basic info like native file format support is equivalent to not specifying whether a vehicle runs on gasoline, diesel or natural gas. Not providing information makes the vendor look shady or stupid, which is a disservice to what is obviously a nice DAC and what appears to be an very good company.
I think most of the people pointing out stuff like this aren't trying to disparage dB Audio Labs, but giving them individual input on what type of info needs to be available to appeal to the targeted market. Obviously, dB Audio Labs can decide where the line is on what info is divulged, but they should be aware that it does matter to people and their perceptions of the product.
Jim C
-
To summarize 50% of the last 6 pages of posts...
"They don't provide any info, including necessary basic info on their website!"
"They will tell you over the phone, but it's their proprietary info and they don't have to tell you anything!"
"They don't provide any info, including necessary basic info on their website!"
"They will tell you over the phone, but it's their proprietary info and they don't have to tell you anything!"
"They don't provide any info, including necessary basic info on their website!"
"They will tell you over the phone, but it's their proprietary info and they don't have to tell you anything!"
yawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnn............
I would suggest that the OTHER 50% of posts are slightly interesting, and the posts beating this dead horse can stop. :deadhorse:
-
Eric,
Do you have a figure for maximum USB cable length for your DAC?
Is this length any different for your DAC vs. other USB DACs/devices?
Thanks
-Mike
-
:idea: Perhaps dB Audio should offer a 30 day satisfactions guarantee for their DAC? That would satisfy any legitimate complaints. :D
-Roy
-
This is viral marketing at its best. Keep it up.
Oh they wont tell you anything, but if you call them its proprietary. You must acknowledge their hello with a code which can be found if you Google the secret word. This code enables free flow of proprietary knowledge.
:)
-
Gents,
This topic is tottering over the edge of the original intent....a review for a new DAC from db Audio Labs.
The manufacturer need not tell anyone anything about it...and no one has to buy it. All have total freedom of choice in the process.
So, puh-lease lets focus on the DAC and less on how db Audio Labs markets their wares...it's beginning to sound like a grudge-fest.
Thanks, John / co-Facilitator Critic's Circle
-
Gents,
This topic is tottering over the edge of the original intent....a review for a new DAC from db Audio Labs.
The manufacturer need not tell anyone anything about it...and no one has to buy it. All have total freedom of choice in the process.
So, puh-lease lets focus on the DAC and less on how db Audio Labs markets their wares...it's beginning to sound like a grudge-fest.
Thanks, John / co-Facilitator Critic's Circle
What's wrong with discussing the business practices of the manufacturer behind the DAC that was reviewed. If I was a potential customer, I want to know all I can. Not just what one or two people thought about its sonic performance. I want to know more about the people and the company when making a buying decision. I got what I wanted out of this and made my decision.
-
What I find truly disengenuous & upsetting w/ many audiophile forums is that bad experiences w/ a mfg. are verboten. This can help spare audiophiles grief in many instances. I have no dog in this fight.
-
What I find truly disengenuous & upsetting w/ many audiophile forums is that bad experiences w/ a mfg. are verboten. This can help spare audiophiles grief in many instances. I have no dog in this fight.
Especially true at Audio Asylum which generates revenue from maufacturer advertising. Not sure if this happens a lot at AC or not. I prefer an unmoderated audio board.
-
What's wrong with discussing the business practices of the manufacturer behind the DAC that was reviewed.
That's such a cheap shot.
-
I have no dog in this fight.
Why comment then? The Facilitator already asked for the topic to get back on track.
-
I have heard this DAC, and IMO it is a killer product. I have no idea what is inside and how it does what it does, I don't care. For me it is about the sound quality and the Tranquility gets it done in spades.
-
Just an observation from an industry professional whose website also doesn't have much info, if I may.
I have, over the period of many years, developed products that do not, to my knowledge, use technology like ANYONE else's in the industry. My products perform as well as or better than anyone elses' products, at any pricepoint. I go out of my way to protect the technology used in my products while going through the patent process. My units are sealed and potted to keep people out for a reason: too many people are willing to rip intellectual property off for their own gain. Weasels and sleezy people are everywhere, especially in the audio industry. Like Eric, I am willing to tell people what my product does, but won't tell anyone how it does it. It is none of their dam*ed business, to be quite blunt about it. I make a living doing what I do. I don't need to be anyones' teacher or gravy train.
I don't blame them at all about being vague about their DAC. I've heard it and it kicks butt. That is all I need to know. They have to feed their familieanyone elses. No one is "entitled" to know anything about proprietary technology.
YMMV
Dave
I totally understand where you're coming from, but the problem is that too many companies are putting out bad products with great marketing hype and poor R&D and offer bad value to customers. The consumer can't be expected to test out every piece of equipment in their own system and since one's memory of what they hear is so short, it makes doing a decent comparison quite difficult. Consumers rely on information to avoid buying poor product....because we all know how great most reviews are...everything is tremendous!
I'd love to try this DAC out despite all of that..I had the modified DAC 60 that Danny was familiar with prior to using this DAC and if it bests that...it must be decent..
-
Hi guys,
Well, it looks like I need to address some fundamentals of our company, what we've already talked about many pages ago on this very thread and why we do some of things in our own unique way, that is very different from other audio companies.
#1 - "The dac's native resolution" - I thought we addressed each and every technical facet on page #3 of this thread about our the native resolution of the DAC, how it works with high rez and the like. Feel free to ask away some more AFTER you've read my response about the rez and specification questions I answered one by one. Perhaps there is something I'm missing with my last response about our dac's handling of files and the rez? Just ask and you shall receive your answers (after you re-read the response on page #3 mind you).
#2 - db Audio Labs website - Our website is geared toward telling about what we aimed for with our dac development process. It's purpose isn't to tell you some sort of "techno-mumbo-jumbo" story that gets you to buy it based on "tech talk". How many audiophiles have bought a product based on this "I'm convinced by their tech talk" scheme, only to have to sell it shortly thereafter because "the tech" didn't actually produce the state of the art sound they thought they were buying?
#3 - Customer support matters the most to us - We are a very customer driven company. We are all about getting you the ABSOLUTE BEST SOUND out of the product first and foremost. We do much more than just let you buy the product and figure out what to do next. We hold your hand through the entire process. Every facet of your purchase involves direct time with me going over everything in your computer, file ripping, set-up and future possibilities and other computer based upgrades to consider. It's all about taking you to the ultimate level sonically. You aren't left alone in the dark with one of our products. Excellent customer support is paramount with our company's philosophy.
#4 - "Technical design overview" - I talk in great length with potential customers about many things technical, both within the dac design itself and computer audio in general. Just recently I had a technical based discussion with a potential customer where we talked about jitter control and optimization, input receiver optimization, digital transmission path fundamentals, dac chip comparative schemes, regulation methodology, device selection criteria and output stage design implementation. All in one conversation mind you. That is all offered for free regardless if you buy a dac from us or not. Still skeptical? Just ask anyone on this forum that has personally talked to me on the phone. There is so much more to digital than just a dac chip, filter and a power supply. Much, much more has to be explained in great detail to really understand how true sonic greatness can actually be achieved. Which has rarely been the case in our professional opinion.
#5 - Special pricing for AC - I guess have to remind some here that we decided to offer a very special discount of $200 off just for AC members. Even though we told everyone we were going to the $1495 MSRP at the beginning of this year, your price is uniquely special. We just want to show you guys how much we care about AC members since some actually just found out about the Tranquility DAC near the end of the year when our introductory price was about to go away. It's all about taking care of you guys.
#6 - We win sonic comparisons - That is the core of what we are all about. Giving you much better sound for your hard earned money. Our company's entire foundation is resting on winning against other choices. When we developed this new DAC, we worked our tails off to secure the smallest micro harmonic details throughout the digital chain inside the dac. We found MANY things other companies miss entirely! It was a thorough and arduous process for us doing things like comparing over 60 output capacitors to each other in true double blind test before choosing one that gets the sound right. But that is not rocket science, that is just hardcore audiophile designers using their ears as a tool. The rocket science comes down to new innovative digital circuit refinements. Those are another thing entirely. That's something we aren't going to give away to our competition.
But, as an example of something uniquely, that sets us completely apart from the pack;
#7 - For example - We hand select the discrete output FET devices and match them prior to assembly. These devices were already bought from the component manufacturer in MATCHED batches BEFORE we went the one step farther to boot! Thus, we further match and optimize our output devices to absolute perfection. Then, we operate these output devices on the actual Tranquility DAC and the associated components for at least a day. This allows all micro voltage adjustment/drift of all supporting devices and any potential active device drifting to be settled into a much more perfect state. Better separation, better sonic space, better harmonic integrity are the goal here. It all adds up to a more amazing soundstage and more lifelike presentation. All of this is VERY unique in high end audio components (at any price). We personally believe that crazy details like these add up.
Thanks to the posters here who believe in us and bought a Tranquility. For those who are skeptical, we will try to find ways to get your ears to hear what we actually achieve with our Tranquility DAC too. We understand your position and demeanor. We are very different in everything we do and how we "look" as compared to most other audio companies. We want to get everyone back to the heart of what we think matters the most, at least to a true music lover. The sound of the product prevailing above other choices. The source defines your entire sound system. What's lost after the source cannot be added back into your music. It is lost forever. The source defines and expresses the true sonic greatness of your treasured music :thumb:
Cheers,
Eric H
-
I have heard this DAC, and IMO it is a killer product. I have no idea what is inside and how it does what it does, I don't care. For me it is about the sound quality and the Tranquility gets it done in spades.
Agree.
On the other hand, I've heard components with killer spects and tons of white paper which sounded average at best.
I am sure time will tell the story of Tranquility DAC.
Personally, I wish db audio labs success with their new product.
Best
Mariusz
-
I had a limited time to listen to the Tranquility at RMAF, but I heard a few tracks after it was substituted for the modified LiteAudio in the Gr-Research room. There was a clear and obvious improvement whatever the finer discriminations might have been. From my perspective, I have every right to ask questions of a manufacturer, the manufacturer has every right to tell me everything or nothing, then I have every right to boycott the product if I don't like their response, or purchase it regardless of their response. I don't think it's pejorative for me to ask or for them to not respond. I do think I can learn something from having an interchange and in some cases might shy away from someone that is not forthcoming and in other cases respect someone that acts on their principles and does not cater to those offering criticisms. I've spent very little time on other forums, but I've seen a positive impact on many occasions from moderator input, whether perfect or not, and have the impression that it offers more than it detracts, at least in this site.
-
Thanks to all who have actually heard the DAC and reported on their impressions--hopefully more to come, including my own impressions in a week or so once I have some hours on the DAC.
Thanks to the manufacturer who has made several long posts explaining much about their company, product, and philosophy.
-
Thank you for that post, srclose....it encapsulated my thoughts well.
Let's just keep to the topic of the Tranquility DAC by db Audio Labs and dispense with all else here regarding possible disapproval of marketing practices therein. You don't have to buy and they/he doesn't have to say much about it - you'll decide if the info that is out there is sufficient for you to plunk $1295 (special AC price) down for a new DAC.
I'm no technophile, so the information provided thus far is more than enough for me - personally speaking only.
John / co-Facilitator
-
I also just received my Tranquility DAC.
1. Eric has been extremely helpful and professional in all of my communications. Customer service has been excellent, and when I mistakenly thought there might have been some damage in shipping he immediately got back to me with a range of options that could resolve the issue. It turned out there was no issue.
2. In the process of troubleshooting what I thought might be a loose part in the DAC, I opened it and took a look. It's very clean and neatly assembled. The Mundorf capacitors are right there as advertised, the dB Audio logo and model revision number are silk screened on the board, and it's not anything like the sort of board you'd typically see shipped in from overseas. I have good confidence that it's made in the US as advertised.
3. I was one who was initially critical/skeptical here, and I have found the technical details provided since the early stages of the thread and the discussion that I had with Eric on the phone to have provided me with all the answers I needed. Actually, my knowledge about the technical considerations that went into the DAC design is probably greater now than my comparable knowledge about other components in my system.
4. Eric is correct in noting their dedication to helping owners optimize their computer audio systems. I had already picked up a lot of good information online and avoided some common problems. Eric wanted to review the computer system setup after I placed my order to be sure I didn't have any issues there. Everything Eric suggested tracked with my knowledge/understanding, and he gave me a couple of good directions to consider in tweaking further.
5. The sound of the DAC is obviously of primary concern. It's only been playing for a couple of hours, but I can already confirm that a design goal that Eric has mentioned about the DAC getting harmonics and decay correct appears confirmed in my listening. I'll report back after it has a couple of hundred hours on it and I have the Ridge Street Audio Alethias cable in the system and burned in as well. There's definitely a flow and coherence to the sound right out of the box that improves on my PS Audio DL III (Cullen Level III mods; HiFace coaxial adapter).
Hope that all helps.
-
I have heard this DAC, and IMO it is a killer product. I have no idea what is inside and how it does what it does, I don't care. For me it is about the sound quality and the Tranquility gets it done in spades.
What system? Room? Source formats?
Etc.?
thanks
DC
-
Macbook>>Tranquility DAC>>Grover Interconnects>>Unison Unico SE Integrated amp (Modded)>>WLM La Scala speakers. Not sure of the room dimensions.
-
I just wanted to check back in with a short update. I've been able to spend some more time with my Tranquility and it continues to improve. I'm certainly listening less to vinyl now but we'll have to see how this plays out over time. I did have one minor issue with one of my computer settings and being relatively new to using a MacBook as source might tend to underestimate the importance of this. I've found that the iTunes volume setting seems to influence the sound of the Tranquility more than it did with my Havana. I'm still waiting for my Ridge Street usb cable to arrive to replace my Polestar and will update with my findings. I'm excited as hell with how this dac has elevated the sound of my system. Again, I want to thank Eric for his great customer support. While I'm not one of us who needed much convincing to buy talking with him on the phone prior to the purchase certainly sealed the deal. Speaking for myself I like a little mystique and the fact that there was some interesting if vague buzz around the dB when it first arrived on the scene made it somewhat more appealing to me. At the end of the day it's only as good as it sounds to you in your home. I'm really looking forward to hearing some of the impressions from Danny and the gang when they have the time to listen to the dB in the company of some of the other well regarded dacs.
(my system again: MacBook/dB dac/Polestar usb/Pure Note ICs & Pure Note Alluvion PCs for dac& into PorterPort)/LFD Zero integrated amp/LFD Spirolflex/Vandersteen 1Cs.)
-
How would you describe the sound of the dB as compared to your Mhdt Havana?
-Roy
-
Air, air, and more air. The music seems so much more like a living and breathing presence. I like the music coming through the Havana but the music through the Tranquility is more fleshed out, more dimensional. As I think someone has already mentioned you can hear more of a note's decay. More of the music's nuance comes through with the dB dac than with the Havana. Notes seem less truncated, more shapely, more tonally complex not to mention more human, more clearly an emotional expression as well as a beautiful sound.
-
:thumb:
Air, air, and more air. The music seems so much more like a living and breathing presence. I like the music coming through the Havana but the music through the Tranquility is more fleshed out, more dimensional. As I think someone has already mentioned you can hear more of a note's decay. More of the music's nuance comes through with the dB dac than with the Havana. Notes seem less truncated, more shapely, more tonally complex not to mention more human, more clearly an emotional expression as well as a beautiful sound.
Very articulate comparison.! :thumb:
Thanks,
Roy
-
I'm about 50 hours into the break-in, but I made one tweak at Eric's suggestion that seems to be meaningful.
I had the Tranquility plugged in to a PS Audio Quartet power filter using a VH Audio Flavor 1 power cord. Eric suggested I connect it directly to a wall outlet (even if that required using a plain vanilla cord for length). Eric suggested that the filtering wasn't needed and could be inhibiting the Tranquility.
The analogy that I came up with (probably not original) is that of a water filter. It cleans up the water (or filters noise out of the current) but it restricts flow in the line. What Eric had to say was that they put a lot of work into the power supply in the DAC and the filtering doesn't help it BUT the affect of filtering may restrict the DAC's performance.
In any case, the best I could do was connect the Tranquility with a stock black cord to the DAC plugged to the outlet via a drug store extension cord. I let it burn-in overnight and this morning I found a definite opening up of the sound (the air that a recent poster noted) and more oomph and texture to the bass.
I can't say that this was solely due to getting rid of the filtering on the incoming AC. The DAC could have just happened to pass a turning point in the break-in. In my experience break-in can show stochastic jumps in improvement rather than a continuous improvement towards some asymptote.
But I figured it would be of interest to folks to note that unfettered power connection seems to help the Tranquility.
-
Hmmmm, well I just heard the best presentation I've ever heard on my system of a song that I often mix into my evaluation listening: Slip Slidin' Away by Paul Simon. It's not an audiophile recording, and that's a benefit. There are lead and backing vocals massed in the center that are a revealing test of resolution and separation. I wasn't going to bother with such critical listening (and this one song is not the whole picture, of course), but after the changes with the new power cord I decided to give it a whirl.
For the first time ever, it was obvious to me that there were two backing vocals at the beginning of the song who sing before Paul Simon enters the mix. I had always thought that he was singing right from the outset, but it doesn't seem so. I think this speaks well of timbre, air, and resolution. Throughout the song I heard a very natural presentation of vocals with the clearest distinction among the voices that I've heard. I also heard some subtle echoes in the recording studio that I hadn't previously noticed. And the ease of the whole presentation was quite seductive.
It will be a couple more weeks, I think, before I have the Alethias USB cable broken in along with the Tranquility, so I'll get into the system details and A/B comparisons to the PS Audio then. It's sounding like the Tranquility will better what I have, and the PS Audio with HiFace will go up for sale. We'll see. Given that the PS Audio has the Cullen level III mods and handles coax and optical (as well as high resolution input) I'm sure there will be a market for it.
Happy listening!
-
I'm about 50 hours into the break-in, but I made one tweak at Eric's suggestion that seems to be meaningful.
I had the Tranquility plugged in to a PS Audio Quartet power filter using a VH Audio Flavor 1 power cord. Eric suggested I connect it directly to a wall outlet (even if that required using a plain vanilla cord for length). Eric suggested that the filtering wasn't needed and could be inhibiting the Tranquility.
The analogy that I came up with (probably not original) is that of a water filter. It cleans up the water (or filters noise out of the current) but it restricts flow in the line. What Eric had to say was that they put a lot of work into the power supply in the DAC and the filtering doesn't help it BUT the affect of filtering may restrict the DAC's performance.
In any case, the best I could do was connect the Tranquility with a stock black cord to the DAC plugged to the outlet via a drug store extension cord. I let it burn-in overnight and this morning I found a definite opening up of the sound (the air that a recent poster noted) and more oomph and texture to the bass.
I can't say that this was solely due to getting rid of the filtering on the incoming AC. The DAC could have just happened to pass a turning point in the break-in. In my experience break-in can show stochastic jumps in improvement rather than a continuous improvement towards some asymptote.
But I figured it would be of interest to folks to note that unfettered power connection seems to help the Tranquility.
What you are describing is sympomatic of any digital audio component plugged into a power filter that uses MOV's for surge and spike protection. The MOV's have a tendancy to "rattle" electrically and put noise back onto the line at frequencies that are deleterious to digital audio reconstruction (the clock) and playback. Power filtration is not a bad thing for digital, per se, just some types of componentry in the filters.
Dave
-
i don't know how this would effect the tranquility, but it has been my experience that using an isolation transformer, one for dac & second for transport, has always improved performance, isolating line noise, and providing a lower noise-floor for the music.
doug s.
What you are describing is sympomatic of any digital audio component plugged into a power filter that uses MOV's for surge and spike protection. The MOV's have a tendancy to "rattle" electrically and put noise back onto the line at frequencies that are deleterious to digital audio reconstruction (the clock) and playback. Power filtration is not a bad thing for digital, per se, just some types of componentry in the filters.
Dave
-
@dBe
What's an MOV? So the filtering is not purely subtractive. Maybe a better explanation than my water filter analogy.
@doug s.
The Tranquility is effectively isolated from the computer and amplifer because those things are still plugged into the filtered power and the DAC is on a different outlet (same circuit, though). At least I assume that things plugged into the Quartet are not sending any noise back through the filter and into the main circuit. I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to such things.
-
What's an MOV? So the filtering is not purely subtractive. Maybe a better explanation than my water filter analogy.
MOV - metal oxide varistor - a sacrificial device used to provide surge suppression by a change in conductivity. Here is a pretty good overview of the device.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1155237,00.asp
They generally are only a bandaid. To use one in an audio circuit we have to provide very effective EMI and RFI filtration after the MOV to reduce their deleterious effects.
Dave
-
@dBe
"a sacrificial device" -- to appease the electron gods
thanks for the explanation
i have no idea if PS Audio uses those without EMI filters (wouldn't want to say their power thingy is a bad design since i do not know)
-
I use a gas discharge surge arrestor in place of MOVs and I have had good results in protecting my DIY projects.
See link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=gas+discharge+surge+arrestor&FS=True
Scotty
-
I'm about 50 hours into the break-in, but I made one tweak at Eric's suggestion that seems to be meaningful.
I had the Tranquility plugged in to a PS Audio Quartet power filter using a VH Audio Flavor 1 power cord. Eric suggested I connect it directly to a wall outlet (even if that required using a plain vanilla cord for length). Eric suggested that the filtering wasn't needed and could be inhibiting the Tranquility.
The analogy that I came up with (probably not original) is that of a water filter. It cleans up the water (or filters noise out of the current) but it restricts flow in the line. What Eric had to say was that they put a lot of work into the power supply in the DAC and the filtering doesn't help it BUT the affect of filtering may restrict the DAC's performance.
In any case, the best I could do was connect the Tranquility with a stock black cord to the DAC plugged to the outlet via a drug store extension cord. I let it burn-in overnight and this morning I found a definite opening up of the sound (the air that a recent poster noted) and more oomph and texture to the bass.
I can't say that this was solely due to getting rid of the filtering on the incoming AC. The DAC could have just happened to pass a turning point in the break-in. In my experience break-in can show stochastic jumps in improvement rather than a continuous improvement towards some asymptote.
But I figured it would be of interest to folks to note that unfettered power connection seems to help the Tranquility.
If the DAC doesn't benefit from power filtration or aftermarket power cords, that's a BIG plus in my book... I believe it indicates a properly designed power supply. We have imperfect electricity, and equipment should be designed to compensate for this or at least greatly reduce it's affect on sound quality. I don't really want to deal with power filtration and power cord geometry to optimize my equipment. I want to plug it into the wall and get 99.9% of it's performance with a zip cord supplying power. I don't want to notice how things sound better at night. It's bad enough that ICs and SCs can have a major affect on sound.
-
To use one in an audio circuit we have to provide very effective EMI and RFI filtration after the MOV to reduce their deleterious effects.
Dave
That's where the MajikBuss or UberBuss excels. Right?
-
I use a gas discharge surge arrestor in place of MOVs and I have had good results in protecting my DIY projects.
See link: http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=gas+discharge+surge+arrestor&FS=True
Scotty
Great choice. Quiet and tough.
Dave
-
FYI, it still benefits quite a bit from a good power cable.
-
So what is the verdict. Aftermarket power cord into a power conditioner? Or aftermarket power cord into wall? or stock power cord into wall or conditioner? dB, what would you guys recommend?
-
I think it should be safe to say that the importance of power filtering is going to be related to the quality of the power and noise on the lines of the place in question -it may vary widely in importance.
I found that there was a noticable difference in power cord. Can't give much info on filtering though.
-Tony
-
@Danny
@TRADERXFAN
Can you tell me which power cords are working well with your Tranquility DACs?
-
I am using the Electra Cable B-7. http://www.electracable.com/powercables.htm
-
I think it should be safe to say that the importance of power filtering is going to be related to the quality of the power and noise on the lines of the place in question -it may vary widely in importance.
I found that there was a noticable difference in power cord. Can't give much info on filtering though.
-Tony
Tony,
I have never seen a digital piece of gear that didn't repond positively to the PROPER kind of power filtration. AC nasties running around in the ground plane and the ones that are not filtered out by the power supply are responsible for all kinds of digititus crapolii.
Dave
-
I originally posted this on A'gon and saw there are some interesting posts on Audio Circle re: the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs. I hope you find it helpful for those of you into computer audio or thinking of getting into it.
I can only say that as an early adopter of a computer music server setup I've owned more USB DACs than I care to admit. I'm not sure why I chose the USB DAC route vs. other interface options. I was probably influenced years ago by the content on the Wavelength website and have found no reason to change. I use a Mac Mini with an external 500GB drive with music ripped in AIFF format.
My comments that follow are only to compare USB DACs to USB DACs as I have no basis for comparison to vinyl or other PC interface options (i.e. TOSLINK). I also have no affiliation with any manufacturer as over the years I've purchased USB DACs from Wavelength, Bel Canto, UltraFi and db Audio Labs, all at list price. For completeness the specific USB DACs that I've owned or auditioned (in chronological order) include the Wavelength Brick and Cosecant ver 2 (both non-async models), the Bel Canto DAC3 (using the USB interface), the UltraFi iRoc, and I auditoned the USB interface on the AMR CD-77. I currently own the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs which is the comparison basis for this post.
I don't have any formal training when it comes to understanding tech specs and I don't claim to have a trained set of ears. My evaluation is mainly based on what sounds good on my system. During my USB DAC journey over the past 2.5 years my system equipment has remained the same with some skr and i/f cable upgrades.
With some of the DACs that I've owned I would typically try to find songs that sounded good on my system rather than listen to the songs that I enjoy. What I experienced was that some DACs made the music sound lifeless as the music lacked dynamics. I also had a challenging time getting a low noise floor with some of the DACs even after following the 'best practice tips'.
With the Tranqulity USB DAC I now find that I've forgotten about the equipment in my system and can enjoy listening to songs that I like. The Tranqulity DAC is dead quiet but as soon as a musical source is applied is when the enjoyment begins.
The Tranquility possesses the dynamic range that we've all come to expect from any gear that we allow to part of our systems. Bass presentation from the Tranqulity is terrific. By comparison bass was totally void with the Wavelength DACs. The Bel Canto DAC3 reintroduces bass but it tends to be a bit muddy and at times gets in the way of the music. Improved bass with the iRoc and the AMR-77 but none of them compare to the Tranquility as you swear it's coming from a source different than your loudspeakers as the seperation from the other instruments is uncanny. Same high praise for mids and highs from the Tranqulity.
Enough about bass, mids and highs. Here's what's really interesting. I'm hearing new artifacts in songs that I've listend to hundreds of times. I think it's due to the sense of having much more space around the instruments creates a huge soundstage that provides width, depth and height.
I'm particually critical to the sound that should be produced when a drumstrick strikes a cymbal. This is the first DAC that gets that sound correct as well as the natural decay of the cymbal. If any of you have the Al Dimeola song 'Flesh on Flesh' listen to the splash cymbal from the 3:45 to 4:00 point in the song. With my previous DACs, this was a bit painful to listen to as the splash cymbal seemed to collide with other musical notes of the song. Digital harshness may be a term used to describe this. The Tranquility DAC is the first DAC I've heard that allows the splash cymbal to be heard correctly and seperately from the other notes. I now find myself enjoying this 15 second musical crescendo.
I've come to realize that the PC Audio area is so new that thinking I've found my last and final DAC is not reasonable and actually not what I would want. The good news is that you don't have to spend a small fortune anymore as the maturation of the USB DAC market has raised the sound quality and the introduction of more manufacturers has lowered the prices. This may sound counter-intuitive but I can't wait to hear my next DAC as they keep getting better.
-
Very nice review and write-up Cycles2. :thumb: :thumb:
George
-
I originally posted this on A'gon and saw there are some interesting posts on Audio Circle re: the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs. I hope you find it helpful for those of you into computer audio or thinking of getting into it.
I can only say that as an early adopter of a computer music server setup I've owned more USB DACs than I care to admit. I'm not sure why I chose the USB DAC route vs. other interface options. I was probably influenced years ago by the content on the Wavelength website and have found no reason to change. I use a Mac Mini with an external 500GB drive with music ripped in AIFF format.
My comments that follow are only to compare USB DACs to USB DACs as I have no basis for comparison to vinyl or other PC interface options (i.e. TOSLINK). I also have no affiliation with any manufacturer as over the years I've purchased USB DACs from Wavelength, Bel Canto, UltraFi and db Audio Labs, all at list price. For completeness the specific USB DACs that I've owned or auditioned (in chronological order) include the Wavelength Brick and Cosecant ver 2 (both non-async models), the Bel Canto DAC3 (using the USB interface), the UltraFi iRoc, and I auditoned the USB interface on the AMR CD-77. I currently own the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs which is the comparison basis for this post.
I don't have any formal training when it comes to understanding tech specs and I don't claim to have a trained set of ears. My evaluation is mainly based on what sounds good on my system. During my USB DAC journey over the past 2.5 years my system equipment has remained the same with some skr and i/f cable upgrades.
With some of the DACs that I've owned I would typically try to find songs that sounded good on my system rather than listen to the songs that I enjoy. What I experienced was that some DACs made the music sound lifeless as the music lacked dynamics. I also had a challenging time getting a low noise floor with some of the DACs even after following the 'best practice tips'.
With the Tranqulity USB DAC I now find that I've forgotten about the equipment in my system and can enjoy listening to songs that I like. The Tranqulity DAC is dead quiet but as soon as a musical source is applied is when the enjoyment begins.
The Tranquility possesses the dynamic range that we've all come to expect from any gear that we allow to part of our systems. Bass presentation from the Tranqulity is terrific. By comparison bass was totally void with the Wavelength DACs. The Bel Canto DAC3 reintroduces bass but it tends to be a bit muddy and at times gets in the way of the music. Improved bass with the iRoc and the AMR-77 but none of them compare to the Tranquility as you swear it's coming from a source different than your loudspeakers as the seperation from the other instruments is uncanny. Same high praise for mids and highs from the Tranqulity.
Enough about bass, mids and highs. Here's what's really interesting. I'm hearing new artifacts in songs that I've listend to hundreds of times. I think it's due to the sense of having much more space around the instruments creates a huge soundstage that provides width, depth and height.
I'm particually critical to the sound that should be produced when a drumstrick strikes a cymbal. This is the first DAC that gets that sound correct as well as the natural decay of the cymbal. If any of you have the Al Dimeola song 'Flesh on Flesh' listen to the splash cymbal from the 3:45 to 4:00 point in the song. With my previous DACs, this was a bit painful to listen to as the splash cymbal seemed to collide with other musical notes of the song. Digital harshness may be a term used to describe this. The Tranquility DAC is the first DAC I've heard that allows the splash cymbal to be heard correctly and seperately from the other notes. I now find myself enjoying this 15 second musical crescendo.
I've come to realize that the PC Audio area is so new that thinking I've found my last and final DAC is not reasonable and actually not what I would want. The good news is that you don't have to spend a small fortune anymore as the maturation of the USB DAC market has raised the sound quality and the introduction of more manufacturers has lowered the prices. This may sound counter-intuitive but I can't wait to hear my next DAC as they keep getting better.
Thoughtfully written. Thank you,
-
I appreciate the attention to detail. It matters to the sound.
- The output Mundorf Supreme capacitors were selected after hundreds of hours listening and evaluating over 60 capacitors of all types and prices in double blind scenarios on many systems with many ears and types of music.
Did you choose the silver/gold/oil or another version of the line? (you can answer me privately if you prefer to not disclose this information)
- The direct plated over copper output jacks are considered one of the most transparent sounding jacks ever made (This is actually rare! Just another one of the MANY components where other "high end audio" companies "cheap you guys out" for their own bottom line profits!).
I think this is actually the best and most overlooked feature of your dac :)
The one that made me raise an eybrow. I know only 3 brands/models of gold plated all-copper rca jacks.
If you tested those (vampire, wbt and eichmann -yup no cardas, they dont gold plate the full copper jacks) sonically. It would be nice to know. For the others, they cost between 50 and 100$.
- We actually built a high tech Sabre chip dac to sonically compare the Tranquility against to demonstrate to ourselves that we were not missing anything sonically with our NOS design, actually sounding superior to the Sabre dac verifying the Tranquility's design and it's overall sonic integrity.
I have absolutely no reason to doubt this statement, having done a similar comparison myself. ;)
-
For people who likes numbers (like me sometimes). the best spdif receiver on the market has an in intrinsic jitter of 50ps. The best USB or firewire dacs can have overall around 70ps of total jitter (so has the wavelength measured). Still too few to play highres flawlessly.
To go lower than that, you need a different interface altogether, with a more direct connection to the transport.
A (expensive) workaround is to slave a souncard such as Lynx or RME, and using AES (the least compromised spdif implementation).
The BADA strangely fails to do so, and take the clock from the soundcard.
An integrated cd player with philips transport would be able to besten the jitter performance of such computer+dac.
(edit: fixed spelling)
-
One of the major players was the Tranquility DAC. I've lived with a Cary 306-200 as my source since they first came out. It sounds fabulous. I have to admit that the Tranquility DAC is better in the HF presentation than the Cary. It NEVER sounded hard or etched in the system.
It cant -- a NOS DAC rolls off pretty early.
:roll:
-
It cant -- a NOS DAC rolls off pretty early.
:roll:
It can. The Cary in 96 or 192 always sounded a bit hard and etched, so I listened @ 44.1. The Tranquility sounded more natural to my ears. YMMV of course.
Dave
-
It can. The Cary in 96 or 192 always sounded a bit hard and etched, so I listened @ 44.1. The Tranquility sounded more natural to my ears. YMMV of course.
Dave
First NOS DAC I heard was the Altmann Attraction DAC over 3 years ago. Blew me away at the time. NOS has a certain character of its own and people who like it tend not to think of it as compromised. Every design has its limitations I suppose. In my audition of the dB I do not find the highs compromised at all.
-
My Ridge Street Alethias usb cable arrived this afternoon. I'm only into the second track but, man, is this an entirely different listening experience! Usually with a new piece of gear I want to jump around and listen to a variety of my favorite songs but I'm transfixed. I just want to sit here and not move. The Alethias replaces my Locus Design Polestar. I thought that since the dB folks had put so much attention into the usb connection that it deserved the highest quality cable. No regrets spending extra on this cable (and it's on sale right now.) I only wish I had ordered a 1M instead of .5M length. The cable is fairly stiff making the logistics of laying out the cable in my cabinet challenging. My very first impression is that the nuances in the music are so much more thoroughly conveyed that I feel as if I'm listening with a new set of ears.
-
I have one of those cables too, and it definitely took it up a notch.
-
Funny. I just got my Alethias USB cable today, and I was just about to write something similar. I hooked it up to my Tranquility DAC, and the difference was immediately obvious and a significant improvement from my Virtue Audio USB cable (which was only $50 but did improve on the standard USB cable that I had).
The Alethias should simply be supplied with the Tranquility. As good as the DAC was sounding, it's now obvious that I was not hearing what it was really capable of. Bass presentation has moved to a whole new level: more clear, better defined, and with amazing tone. In fact, across the spectrum tone is much better. The depth of the soundstage is now better than my previous DAC (yeah, I think the PS Audio stands no chance at this point), and the effortless detail and space between instruments is wonderful.
Since I got the Tranquility while it was on introductory sale, I ended up with the DAC and the Alethias at the current price of the DAC. It was a great deal, and I'm very pleased.
-
I couldn't agree more.
-
To your question about the Proton, I talked with another guy who's had a ton of the USB dacs including many Wavelengths all the way up to the $3500 Crimson. He said his new Tranquility is quite a bit better than any of his old Wavelength dacs including the Crimson. And he said that the Crimson crushed the Proton sonically (it should though for 3X the price!). I must qualify I wasn't there to hear all these differences but he seemed to have turned over more rocks than myself on the varios USB dacs. I wanted him to post here but he's pretty afraid of some of the other guys attacking him due to their harshness towards my thread. I just don't understand how anyone here could be so hard on a company that brings out such an overperforming dac for so little money. At this point I'm pretty convinced the Tranquility is in a whole different league.
Logged
Just so you understand since I really don't think you have a friend with my products. The Crimson is actually $7500 and you can configure it using dac modules which include my Transcendental NOS module, Numerator 24/96 (192 capable) and Denominator 24(32)/192.
As with all my dacs including the runner up for digital product of the year the Cosecant $3500 which is probably the one your "friend" has... all run on my Streamlength Asynchronous USB code which I wrote myself.
The big problem with using controllers that are fixed at 16 bits at 32, 44.1 and 48 from TI/BB and Cmedia is that their effective jitter is so high in the 3300ns to 5800ns range.
Compare that with even the Proton at 75ps or Crimson at sub 25ps.
Believe me upsamplers, reclockers and whatever will not get rid of that much jitter.
In the end it's does not really matter about the specs or the performance, it only depends on what you like.
Thanks
Gordon
-
Just so you understand since I really don't think you have a friend with my products. The Crimson is actually $7500 and you can configure it using dac modules which include my Transcendental NOS module, Numerator 24/96 (192 capable) and Denominator 24(32)/192.
As with all my dacs including the runner up for digital product of the year the Cosecant $3500 which is probably the one your "friend" has... all run on my Streamlength Asynchronous USB code which I wrote myself.
The big problem with using controllers that are fixed at 16 bits at 32, 44.1 and 48 from TI/BB and Cmedia is that their effective jitter is so high in the 3300ns to 5800ns range.
Compare that with even the Proton at 75ps or Crimson at sub 25ps.
Believe me upsamplers, reclockers and whatever will not get rid of that much jitter.
In the end it's does not really matter about the specs or the performance, it only depends on what you like.
Thanks
Gordon
Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.
Tom
-
This thread sounds something equivalent to the Jim Jones Koolaid camp... a bit scary.
-
Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.
Tom
Maybe we can all take a deep breath. :|
Someone was reporting a comparison of the Tranquility DAC with one that Mr. Rankin makes. The name and quoted price of his DAC seem to be a mismatch. I agree that he comes on strong with the accusation that the OP is inventing what he reports, but I think it's fair enough for him to provide some facts about his DACs that may be relevant to discussion of the Tranquility.
This comes back to the questions that started this thread about the technical specifications on the Tranquility DAC. Can we just measure jitter of a DAC and call it day? If we agree that this measurement is the determining factor in a DACs sound quality, do we even agree on standards and procedures for measuring it?
My own conclusion is that it's a well-intended focus of discussion when speaking about DACs, but that it's a red herring. The asynchronous USB software is also a red herring. It's likely an excellent tool for improving a DAC's sound, but like the numerous designs of loudspeakers out there, it's not the only, or objectively the best, solution.
There's lot more that goes into producing music from a DAC than is neatly captured in a certain number of picoseconds or nanoseconds of jitter. By the same token, there's a lot more to the differences among speaker cables than their inductance and capacitance measurements. That much is easily verified in double-blind listening comparisons.
I've never heard Mr. Rankin's DACs, but they certainly have a strong reputation. What I have heard is my Tranquility DAC (with Alethias USB cable) in comparison to my PS Audio DL III with Cullen Modifications, and the Tranquility is better by far.
I think it would be terrific if one or more of the Wavelength DACs could be compared in the event that Danny is organizing in Texas (if I understand it correctly). They may or may not anoint a clear winner (I think it's unlikely that one DAC will be obviously better than all others--there will be tradeoffs and personal preferences among a group of top contenders). But it would be better to discuss and debate those results than the hypothetical advantages of one or more engineering details in the DAC itself. The ultimate test is the sound. :thumb:
-
Yes, please take a deep breathe folks.
I think Gordon's (wavelength) post was appropriate and balanced.
He's made all of 4 posts in 5 years here at AC...so he's hardly worn out his welcome as a self-promoting gadfly. Let's enjoy the banter, folks - thanks.
John / co-Facilitator
-
Seems like trying to correct a potential misunderstanding of a manufacturer's product is more than fair. No reflection on Eric, but it's interesting how the emotional tenor of this thread doesn't live up to its namesake (Tranquility) :wink:
-
I originally posted this on A'gon and saw there are some interesting posts on Audio Circle re: the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs. I hope you find it helpful for those of you into computer audio or thinking of getting into it.
The Tranquility possesses the dynamic range that we've all come to expect from any gear that we allow to part of our systems. Bass presentation from the Tranqulity is terrific. By comparison bass was totally void with the Wavelength DACs. The Bel Canto DAC3 reintroduces bass but it tends to be a bit muddy and at times gets in the way of the music. Improved bass with the iRoc and the AMR-77 but none of them compare to the Tranquility as you swear it's coming from a source different than your loudspeakers as the seperation from the other instruments is uncanny. Same high praise for mids and highs from the Tranqulity.
While I agree that the bass presentation with the Tranquility is superb, I would not personally say that the bass from the Wavelength DACs is "void. My take on all of the ones I've heard it tight, controlled and articulate.
:scratch:
Dave
-
Seems like trying to correct a potential misunderstanding of a manufacturer's product is more than fair. No reflection on Eric, but it's interesting how the emotional tenor of this thread doesn't live up to its namesake (Tranquility) ;)
All told, I've learned much more about this DAC thanks to this Component Review than I would have from just visiting the Tranquility website so for anyone who's interested in this DAC, this thread has been a gold mine of information. Demeanor aside, it is serving it's purpose IMHO. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
I agree, really informative and helpful. Just poking fun about the name.
-
I just placed an order. Eric was most helpful on the phone. I will compare the Tranquility with my Pico DAC, Benchmark DAC1 Pre, and my Oppo BD-83 SE. Should be interesting! I wish I still had my Modwright Transporter -- that was the best digital source I've owned.
I would like to see a balanced version of this DAC at some point. Volume control as an option would also be a nice feature. I've had good results connecting the Transporter and DAC1 directly to my amps.
-
I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from the shootout as well. While I haven't heard most of the dacs that will be involved I'll be very interested to hear additional respectful opinions of how the dac I do have sounds in the company of others I may have considered. I also want to hear about the cables used. I'm impressed with Ridge Street's new usb and my Pure Note Alluvion powercords and ICs are the best I've come across to date. (There has been a 50% off sale at Pure Note this winter! This company doesn't get enough attention IMHO.)I find this type of information more helpful than any given review I might come across in one of the audio mags. So, thanks everyone for keeping this thread going. I was experimenting with my set up last night by inserting a pair of attenuators into the mix. Since receiving my Tranquility and upgrading the usb cable and ICs I've found I can't turn the volume up as much as in the past. The music is so dynamic and the soundstage so much more enveloping that listening can get pretty intense with the volume past 7-8 o'clock. I had the attenuators left over from several systems ago. They definitely soften the presentation somewhat. Increase in volume is much more gradual and I can now easily get to 11-12 o'clock. There seems to be little or no loss in detail, in fact, I may be hearing more. Too early to tell which I prefer at this point. Has anyone else had any experience with attenuators?
-
Hi Guys,
Here are some technical answers to earlier inquiries regarding power cord sensitivity, our NOS DAC solution, some mis-percetions about "NOS sound", and our unique jitter control.
#1 - Power cords and the Tranquility's sensitivity to different variants - The engineering staff at dB Audio Labs agonized long and hard over the question of the power cord sensitivity with the Tranquility design. Generally speaking, we appreciate excellent power cord technology. However, this comes at a cost - a substantial cost. So, to turn the phrase a bit, the staff pondered, "Does it make sense to build a DAC the retails for $1495 that requires a power that costs more than double that to sound its best?" Ultimately, the staff decided that this made little, if any sense! The question then became, how to design and optimize the Tranquility to work with lesser power cords without sacrificing the sonics or, said another way, how to desensitize the Tranquility to differences between power cords. Could it be done? The answer is 'Yes!". First, the secondary of the power transformer is damped such that the switch-off of the diodes in the bridge subsequent the power transformer does not resonate with the inductance of its secondary. There is commonly a resonant tank circuit found here with what appears to be a typical bridge rectifier. We also managed to optimize without the use "hexfreds", "Cree diodes", or the like as it would actually degrade the performance. This is about cost and value to the consumer - not about boutique parts in and of themselves. Having taken care of the backward path, the forward path was considered. Here a similarly damped common mode choke is used and these devices, when properly employed, are excellent at taking care of or riding oneself of typical line born noise. Third, having chosen the forgoing, a CLRC or capacitor-choke-resistor-capacitor filter is realized. This further lessens the burden of subsequent voltage regulators and their, in turn, sensitivity of variations in power cords. Moreover, they work more on a fundamental sinusoidal basis rather than on overtones/noise when their inherent impedance is less effective. From there, the Tranquility uses no less than three separate regulators! - two which are surface mount and one of which is discrete - for the output stages and current-to-voltage converters and dac chip. (Yes, the engineering staff listened to all of the well regarded thru-hole regulators in addition to the surface mount regulators to make sure which was best!) Further, each manufacturer or brand of the selected regulator was also auditioned before arriving at those selected. Even a few other things, but we've got to still keep some of our design secrets to ourselves. In a nutshell, the totality of our tuning and proprietary optimizations greatly reduces the sensitivity to variations in power cords.
#2 - The general perception about the "NOS sound" and our unique Tranquility solution - There has been quite a bit written and reviewed regarding the typical "NOS sound" (non-oversampled). The general feeling among audiophiles and reviewers alike is that NOS dacs have a more natural (or correct) timbre and are very easy to listen to. Much less "digititus" than most other designs. Where typical NOS designs fall slightly short is their ability to convey bone crushing dynamics and large scale sound. This is where we worked our "R & D tails" off with optimizations never realized before with a NOS dac solution. We wanted it all. Natural easy to listen to WITH the huge dynamic scale and contrasts! We also worked another toward another level in analog like correctness that we feel was seriously lacking in any digital solution regardless of technology. Without revealing our actual proprietary optimizations; we streamlined the digital data pathways in a way never done before. We also spent a ton of time trying many unique components and circuits around the NOS dac along with treatments. Of course, power supply and regulation schemes were paramount too. We paid particular attention to the input receiver implementation. The I/V conversion stage was also addressed in a very special manner. Lastly, we developed a very powerful and extremely transparent output stage that would be welcome many statement level pre-amplifiers costing many times more than the dac itself. To "measure" our ability to find every last bit of dynamics and scale (that are typical of a modern "high tech" digital chipset), we built our own top shelf Sabre dac. (The Sabre chipset is considered one of the most modern implementations to date). We did hundreds of comparisons as we worked toward our dynamic refinements on the NOS solution. In the end we actually managed to achieve the dynamics and scale that are comparable to the Sabre...with a much more natural timbre to boot! A possible first for any NOS dac design offered in the world today. No compromises, the natural sound of NOS design, with dynamics of a modern chipset. The best of both worlds in our opinion. And analog like sonic qualities that set us apart from most of the spectrum entirely :thumb:
#3 - Jitter control and mis-understandings. There are few competitors throwing around jitter numbers against their competition, including us, alludes to "big problems" with jitter in all other designs. In general, they are correct in their assertion about jitter being bad but they are VERY incorrect if they are calling out our particular solution that we've managed to develop for the Tranquility. Everything from our digital streamlining to selection of components to the circuits surrounding the input receiver and dac were about keeping jitter at bay. Folks, it's so much more than just a core measurement to realize here. It's also about where the jitter is located and how it is spread across the spectrum. For us the absolute proof of any jitter reduction scheme comes down to how the dac does spatial qualities, depth and soundstage size. Jitter that is the most sonically damaging affects these sonic areas the greatest (in our opinion). If you manage to get a huge, immersive and very deep soundstage without an artificial signature then you have properly attacked the jitter that actually matters. We are proud to say that our dac easily excels in these particular sonic areas and surpasses many other touted "ultra low jitter" designs that have their great "measurement - specifications". That's the proof in the pudding for us. The space, air, sound stage and sonic depth. Other audiophiles may love their "number games", we want to give everyone the best sound possible! Nothing matters more to us than this. We don't prescribe to marketing our products with some sort of "mumbo-jumbo tech speak" that may just fail to actually deliver the statement sound those tech specs may proclaim ;-)
Lastly, we have reduced our restocking fee to $75 for the Tranquility DAC. We realize that many want us to have a zero restocking fee policy but our margins are slimmer than many other companies. We also will NOT make our product with cheap and dirty parts either. That would be another way we could get to the zero restocking fee along with a higher price of course. Hopefully others here may realize we actually care about giving you the absolute most for your money with our Tranquility DAC offering.
Cheers!
Eric H
-
Wonderful post, Eric H! If that had been your 1st post the discussion would have been much different.
-
Thanks for answer #1, what do you consider to be the ideal DIY power cord for your DAC? What goemetry, wire and connectors would you recommend? Of course, I understand the ps has been designed not to vary a lot in sound, but there must be some interaction?
-
We did hundreds of comparisons as we worked toward our dynamic refinements on the NOS solution. In the end we actually managed to achieve the dynamics and scale that are comparable to the Sabre...with a much more natural timbre to boot!
So how much dynamic range did you end up with?
Steve
-
The dynamics from the Tranquility are great. When I initially heard the Tranquility, it was on a system that shows dynamics in great contrast. The system has a $15K Blowtorch Crump designed pre-amp and Parasound JC-1 600W monoblock amps along with the largest VTL tube amps I've ever seen. Everything we played through the Traquility was hugely dynamic and powerful. The AMR player on hand with all the internal separate power supplies and transformers did not sound one ounce more powerful. Actually, I thought the bass was even more powerful from the Tranquility.
-
So how much dynamic range did you end up with?
Steve
Are you asking about the measured signal to noise ratio? I think this is different from the dynamics that Eric or others are referring to. DACs typically S/N far better than vinyl, for example, well above 95 dB, but that's only part of the story (obviously, since vinyl can sound better than the majority of DACs and CD players). I think what folks mean by dynamic range when speaking about the Tranquility is the ability to nimbly reproduce the quick, natural shift between soft and loud and the ability to reproduce a well-defined and realistically punchy bass line or the thwack of a rimshot, etc. This is not a S/N measurement but is an overall quality that ultimately derives from a number of design choices. That's my take--I certainly think the Tranquility has "dynamic range" that is excellent when it comes to presenting music with "slam" and texture.
-
I do not own this DAC, in fact I've never heard it.
I do know Eric H though.
Eric has a great ear, his hearing is great.
As far as I know, Eric only has two things going on in his life, satisfying the young ladies (half his age mostly) that throw themselves at him and listening to very minor changes he has made to a component, cable, port on a speaker, capacitor etc..
You can go out to a bar with him, and if he doesn't bring a young lady home, it's because he got some action in the parking lot.
The next thing you know, you will be listening to him asking if you hear a difference in his system when swapping out a tube or a cable or maybe he swapped in a slightly different capacitor somewhere.
He is anal about trying every little thing to see what difference it makes.
If Eric likes this Dac, I'm sure it's because he listened to hundreds of very little changes and picked the best choices. He does much of his research by listening.
If I was in the market for a DAC, this one would be at the top of my list to demo.
-
Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.
Unbelievable!
-
Unbelievable!
Whats unbelievable?
-
....
#1 - Power cords and the Tranquility's sensitivity to different variants - The engineering staff at dB Audio Labs agonized long and hard over the question of the power cord sensitivity with the Tranquility design. Generally speaking, we appreciate excellent power cord technology. However, this comes at a cost - a substantial cost. So, to turn the phrase a bit, the staff pondered, "Does it make sense to build a DAC the retails for $1495 that requires a power that costs more than double that to sound its best?" Ultimately, the staff decided that this made little, if any sense! The question then became, how to design and optimize the Tranquility to work with lesser power cords without sacrificing the sonics or, said another way, how to desensitize the Tranquility to differences between power cords. Could it be done? The answer is 'Yes!". First, the secondary of the power transformer is damped such that the switch-off of the diodes in the bridge subsequent the power transformer does not resonate with the inductance of its secondary. There is commonly a resonant tank circuit found here with what appears to be a typical bridge rectifier. We also managed to optimize without the use "hexfreds", "Cree diodes", or the like as it would actually degrade the performance. This is about cost and value to the consumer - not about boutique parts in and of themselves. Having taken care of the backward path, the forward path was considered. Here a similarly damped common mode choke is used and these devices, when properly employed, are excellent at taking care of or riding oneself of typical line born noise. Third, having chosen the forgoing, a CLRC or capacitor-choke-resistor-capacitor filter is realized. This further lessens the burden of subsequent voltage regulators and their, in turn, sensitivity of variations in power cords. Moreover, they work more on a fundamental sinusoidal basis rather than on overtones/noise when their inherent impedance is less effective. From there, the Tranquility uses no less than three separate regulators! - two which are surface mount and one of which is discrete - for the output stages and current-to-voltage converters and dac chip. (Yes, the engineering staff listened to all of the well regarded thru-hole regulators in addition to the surface mount regulators to make sure which was best!) Further, each manufacturer or brand of the selected regulator was also auditioned before arriving at those selected. Even a few other things, but we've got to still keep some of our design secrets to ourselves. In a nutshell, the totality of our tuning and proprietary optimizations greatly reduces the sensitivity to variations in power cords.
......
Cheers!
Eric H
Eric,
Your efforts to optimize your power supply are certainly laudable, and no doubt, quite successful. Nevertheless, I don't follow the logic (other than 'assuming the consequent') of your assertion that these efforts minimize the benefits of different power cords. I could certain see where you might argue that you efforts minimize/eliminate the need for power conditioning, as you're incorporated such within your component, where, ideally it belongs, tuned and optimized to the specific power requirements of the component.
The anecdote of the dac sounding better without the intermediation of a PS Audio Quartet might be more a confirmation of the importance of the cord feeding a conditioner, or the fact that in many systems, the nickel plated PowerPort receptacles within the Quartet aren't appropriate for higher resolution components.
While my CAT SL-1 preamp, with its herculean, sophisticated ps doesn't get along with any added power conditioning, it still benefits substantially from the proper choice of power cords.
Your assertion that your ps efforts obviate the benefits of bespoke power cords might well be valid, and I'm looking forward to further feedback. Given the size of the NYC Rave membership, hopefully someone will be bringing one to a Rave.
Regards,
Paul
-
I don't follow the logic (other than 'assuming the consequent') of your assertion that these efforts minimize the benefits of different power cords.
There's 4' of high-end power cord with optimum geometry for the DAC coiled in the base of the chassis under a piece of sheet metal. :wink:
-
There's 4' of high-end power cord with optimum geometry for the DAC coiled in the base of the chassis under a piece of sheet metal. :wink:
Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.
-
Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.
i think dave is making a funny... 8)
doug s.
-
i think it's impolite getting it naked and not sharing the pics with others ;)
Are we talking about the same DAC, DaveC113? Because the Tranquility I have has the IEC mounted directly and connected to the pcb board.
-
The anecdote of the dac sounding better without the intermediation of a PS Audio Quartet might be more a confirmation of the importance of the cord feeding a conditioner, or the fact that in many systems, the nickel plated PowerPort receptacles within the Quartet aren't appropriate for higher resolution components.
I'm the source of the report on the improved sound when I got rid of the PS Audio Quartet (Duet actually, probably my mistake in the earlier post). I actually got rid of two things at once: the VH Audio Flavor 1 power cord and the PS Audio Duet.
The Tranquility is now plugged in via a stock cord (Volex 17604 http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=93K2606&CMP=AFC-GB100000001) that connects to the wall outlet via a drug store lamp cord (three-pronged grounded--looks like 14 AWG on each line +/-/n).
I don't know that the nickel-plated receptacles in the Duet would explain the improvement in sound since the Volex cord looks like it has nickel-plated prongs as well.
One thing I hadn't tried was swapping the VH Audio Flavor 1 in for the Volex cable connected directly to the extension (that is plugged directly into the wall outlet). So, I just tried that. Whoa. The VH Audio cable took everything down a notch. I lost openness, accuracy of timbre, and gained some grunge and congestion. Not horrible, but a noticeable downgrade.
So, the Tranquility was not happy with the VH Audio, independent of the PS Audio Duet.
I finished off the test of each change in isolation by plugging the Volex into the Duet. The difference was not as immediately objectionable, but still a bump down in sound quality. The separation between voices and the clarity of tonal differences were slightly off, and everything sounded smoothed over. Maybe to Duet was filtering out some noise in the A/C but the smoothness also seemed to muddy things. Back to the Volex connected to the extension cord and everything is good again.
I have a Dodd Balanced Power Supply on the way to check out. Presumably it will clean up the A/C without any negative affects. It will also give me surge protection that I lack connecting the DAC to the wall directly. I'll feel better once it's got a little protection in place.
P.S. I swapped the VH Audio Flavor 1 feeding the amp with another Volex that had been sitting unused upstairs. The Volex seems to smooth things without losing detail or tonality or anything else (imaging still excellent, etc.). I'm not at all intending to bash VH Audio--they are a terrific company. I think the Flavor 1 was the wrong choice for my components, and VH Audio's beefier Flavor 4 might be a better choice. The Volex has also received a lot of positive comment as a cheap cable that performs surprisingly well. In my system I prefer it.
-
I too think it sounds better plugged directly into the wall rather than my Quintet. I have had the DAC for a couple of weeks now and am really enjoying its sound. More to come...
-
I have a Dodd Balanced Power Supply on the way to check out. Presumably it will clean up the A/C without any negative affects. It will also give me surge protection that I lack connecting the DAC to the wall directly. I'll feel better once it's got a little protection in place.
I didn't know the Dodd Balanced Power Conditioner had surge protection included, are you sure about this? Thanks. :D
Cheers,
Robin
-
I didn't know the Dodd Balanced Power Conditioner had surge protection included, are you sure about this? Thanks. :D
Cheers,
Robin
I own the Dodd BPT and it doesn't offer surge protection just balanced power.
-
I forgot to note that I'm getting better bass swapping the VH Audio Flavor 1 with the Volex on my amp. It still has excellent definition, but now has more heft and solidity. The music is now getting my fingers and toes tapping more than before. Very nice! I should have played more with it earlier, but just assumed the improvement on the Tranquility was unique and that the amp was still better off with the $130 cord. It's good to be wrong sometimes. :)
-
I own the Dodd BPT and it doesn't offer surge protection just balanced power.
I got the idea that it did from this post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=22943.0
It states "Extensive filtering for emi/rfi/surge on the mains coming into the unit."
And "Uses hyd/mag breaker for protection and power switch"
Are you sure that there is no surge protection in the Dodd, or are we just using the term differently? :scratch:
-
Also, trianglezerius, since you also have the Tranquility DAC, can you comment on any improvement with the Dodd power supply? Danny thought it wouldn't do as much for the Tranquility (due to built-in regulation and filtering in the DAC) but would help my amp (with switching power supply) a good bit.
Thanks. :thumb:
-
i think dave is making a funny... 8)
doug s.
Yes, but I have my lawyers working on the patent application as we speak. I'd license the technology to dB Audio Labs for a couple of DACS... you know, to show my appreciation as this thread made me think of it. 8)
-
Eric,
Given the size of the NYC Rave membership, hopefully someone will be bringing one to a Rave.
Regards,
Paul
What he said. 8)
-
Hi Guys,
Just for clarification sake, there are DEFINITE sonic differences between different power cords used on the Tranquility. The sonic differences are just reduced as compared to most other audiophile power supply circuits. Hence, there are other things that a good power cord may offer beyond our own electronic optimizations and noise rejection schemes. For instance, you should be able to detect some dynamic differences between power cord variants. Our goal was to give you guys the ability to achieve really good sound from the Tranquility right out of the box, without the absolute need of having to purchase a big money state of the art power cord to get it to sound special :green:
Cheers,
Eric H
-
Hi Guys,
Just for clarification sake, there are DEFINITE sonic differences between different power cords used on the Tranquility. The sonic differences are just reduced as compared to most other audiophile power supply circuits. Hence, there are other things that a good power cord may offer beyond our own electronic optimizations and noise rejection schemes. For instance, you should be able to detect some dynamic differences between power cord variants. Our goal was to give you guys the ability to achieve really good sound from the Tranquility right out of the box, without the absolute need of having to purchase a big money state of the art power cord to get it to sound special :green:
Cheers,
Eric H
This makes sense and my own findings agree. I added a Silver Circle Audio Vesuvius power cord to my Tranquility and did experience increased dynamics. I concur that the change was less dramatic than the difference I've seen in adding these power cords to all my other components. I wasn't at all unimpressed with the sound of this DAC using a stock power cord, quite the opposite in fact, I'm still in awe of what this DAC can do. But I had the Vesuvius and wanted to see what it would do. It took me just one step closer. Isn't that what we're all trying to do, just get "one step closer"?
-
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.
-
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.
:scratch: I'm not sure that I understand the question. What is "SOA" and what is "Ga."?
-
"State of the art" and "Gauge" :thumb:
-
As an audio agnostic, what's the essence of SOA pwr. cords? Anything beyond Ga., $ spent & duplicate good filtration which is the sine qua non of any properly designed amp.
Any cable will have an effect on the signal going through it, be it audio or a 60 Hz sine wave. Power cord geometry and the quality of connectors makes an audible difference in a lot of gear. All the reasons why haven't been answered, but it's east to see how geometry effects C and L... what the results are is not fully defined, but a lot of people (delusional or not) notice sometimes significant differences in audio quality depending on the power cord used.
With most things audio, it's not necessary to spend lots of cash to achieve good results, although if you want the best materials available, it's going to start costing a lot. I used surplus mil-spec wire I found on ebay and basic, non-plated connectors I got at a local surplus store for my pcs and am happy with the results considering they cost less to build than many pre-built extension cords at a hardware store. Better connectors are available at over 10x the price, but I'm not rich yet.
-
Given that a properly designed amp's power supply is designed to filter the AC line input, this is like washing your car prior to going to the carwash.
-
Given that a properly designed amp's power supply is designed to filter the AC line input, this is like washing your car prior to going to the carwash.
In theory, I agree. :green:
-
Given that a properly designed amp's power supply is designed to filter the AC line input, this is like washing your car prior to going to the carwash.
I fully agree: in theory the carwash should clean my car perfectly. It never seems to work out that way for me, however. I guess I could go to a much more expensive carwash that cleans perfectly, or do some extra detailing myself. :)
-
Given that a properly designed amp's power supply is designed to filter the AC line input, this is like washing your car prior to going to the carwash.
There are a lot of assumptions made in the design of power supplies for audio gear. Often those are made because the designer may have specific problems where he/she lives and designs accordingly. Where I live, we have (and I'm serious) about a billion watts of RF floating around between all of the broadcast, repeaters, defense coms and all. We also have big EMI problems. For a designer to design a power supply that will adequately address all of these problems would necessitate BIG $$$ to deal with these problems.
One of the big problems with digital audio reproduction has been the fact that digital circuitry is incredibly sensitive to electrical abberations in the power supplies. As a person that makes his living designing equipment to address these issues, I am very impressed with the effort that dB Audio Labs has put into making power problems less of an issue for their DAC. What they have done works very well. They had to honor design/pricepoint considerations, but their approach is quite elegant for such a low cost product. I'm impressed with their entire approach to the product.
AC cannot be too clean. Good power conditioning is a must for excellence in digital reproduction
Dave
-
Eric, is Larry Moore involved with dbAudio Labs?
On your website, it says that you are former Bell Labs engineers, and it is known that Larry Moore once worked at Bell Labs. And it is also a matter of record that Eric Heider and Larry Moore were partners at UltraFi.
-
Also, trianglezerius, since you also have the Tranquility DAC, can you comment on any improvement with the Dodd power supply? Danny thought it wouldn't do as much for the Tranquility (due to built-in regulation and filtering in the DAC) but would help my amp (with switching power supply) a good bit.
Thanks. :thumb:
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, newszooreview but I wanted to validate my findings to be as accurate as possible. So I tried everything all over again and took notes.
On hand, I have the Dodd BPT and the MIT Z-Stabilizer with various power cord (JAS, Acoustic Zen, Diy, and Straley) to try. I used the well recorded Alice in Chains "Unplugged' and Adele 19 as my reference and demo CDs.
Here are my findings:
Plugged into the wall directly: This was the way I preferred the Tranquility with a non-digital type of power cord - a high current DIY design:
The sound was a bit wider and very clear this way. Everything was very quick and out of the way sounding. The center images sometime seemed not as focused as they were wide. My speakers optimally placed for one of the conditioners instead. I would probably place and toe in my speakers differently to focus the image better due to the width being greater for plugging the Tranquility directly into the wall.
Into the various receptacles Dodd BPT with Jas power cord powering the Dodd (Front end, Digital and Analog Amplifier receptacles used with DIY high current power cord into the Tranquility):
The receptacles labelled front end make the highs a little grainy and the dynamics sound constricted. Imaging is slightly more centered but everything sound thin overall.
The receptacle labelled Analog Amplifier sounded the best on the Dodd. The high frequencies were not dirty and grainy like the front end receptacles. The dynamics were improved too. Imaging was centered and focused. Everything seemed balanced. There was not the width I experienced with the Tranquility plugged into the wall though. And the dynamics were not improved just different. Bass seemed fuller but heavier. Which one is better? I'm not sure. I could see how some would like the Dodd in this configuration where others would prefer plugging the Tranquility directly into the wall. Both sound excellent.
The receptacle labelled Digital Amplifier sounded too pinched on the center images. The high frequencies were not as extended. Maybe some systems would benefit from these things? I don't like the imaging to be small and compressed on center images.
Another interesting change happened when I used my Acoustic Zen El Nino power cord on the Dodd. It sounds syrupy when the Tranquility is plugged into the wall with the Zen. When I used the Zen with the Dodd it worked better. It was like the syrup sound was fixed. I still prefer using my DIY high current cord over the audiophile Zen. They say it is designed for digital sources. The Acoustic Zen just doesn't do anything better than my DIY high current cord. It has a syrupy sound that I can hear.
MIT Z-Stabilizer powered by MIT Z cord 2, Tranquility connected to MIT Z with DIY high current cord:
This is my preferred way to power the Tranquility DAC. The images are defined and centered and the dynamics are natural. Everything here makes me want to tap my feet the most as compared to the other configurations. I still don't get as wide of imaging as plugging the Tranquility directly into the wall. I think the MIT may be creating a balance that my system needs. I am going to stick with my MIT as my preference of choice. After all that is said and done I would still try everything you have on hand and see what works best for you :thumb:
Tom
-
I'm new to the game here...and don't have time to read the entire thread, but I feel quite strongly about adding my two cents.
I heard this DAC fed by Hider's MacMini through a very carefully constructed high-end rig, which I can get specifics on if anyone cares...but I've enjoyed this system before, mostly with vinyl.
I knew I was going to hear something new, but didn't have the specifics. After some time setting up, which I didn't care to see...Hider can be very particular about his procedures and there was good beer to drink and conversation to be had in the next room...we finally commenced to listening.
It wasn't blind, with either or both eyes (heh), but my initial reaction was palatable.
I simply couldn't believe it was coming from the computer. Even though it was right in front of me, it was tough to believe the fluidity and decay and staging width and depth were from iTunes fed through USB. I couldn't reconcile what I was hearing with what I saw.
This was a paradigm change for me, but I've not kept up on computer audio...like the old Home Theater PC pioneering days, every demo was a disappointment...until this one.
Next time Eric is through Detroit, we can setup a demo using some recordings I've done live...and we can also play with my MIT Z-box and cables (thanks for that report, btw, killer experimenting) and a few other line conditioners that I've grown very fond of over the years. I would be curious to hear comparisons to competing product, and then we can do the double-confusion testing.
So, in short...this thing holds promise. It has me excited over computer handling of music now, and that is a HUGE deal to me.
Cheers,
John
P.S.: In full disclosure, I've known Eric for over ten years...since I met him through a very early ISF calibration on his Sony RP Television...and consider him a man of high integrity, honesty, and good intent. He's been turning me onto cheap tweaks and such for high-end gear seemingly forever, but this device is absolutely the most groundbreaking item he's ever brought to my attention. It is as if his quest for perfection is closer to completion, and if you knew the guy like I do...that is the largest compliment I can make to him. He is one of the most fastidiously detail-oriented people I've ever met...and almost NEVER obviously happy. With this product, he is obviously pleased, and seems eager to share it.
-
Eric, is Larry Moore involved with dbAudio Labs?
On your website, it says that you are former Bell Labs engineers, and it is known that Larry Moore once worked at Bell Labs. And it is also a matter of record that Eric Heider and Larry Moore were partners at UltraFi.
Is this relevant somehow that I am missing?
-
Is this relevant somehow that I am missing?
Read this post.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Review-Ultra-Fi-Musicstream-USB-DAC
Bryan
-
For those of you who own Tranquility, is it possible to post some internal pics of the DAC? Thanks.
-
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, newszooreview but I wanted to validate my findings to be as accurate as possible. So I tried everything all over again and took notes. [SNIP]
Well, it was worth the wait! Thanks for the detailed insight into what works best for you. I will definitely experiment when the Dodd comes. Danny should be sending an Electra Cable B-7 as well, so I can try that with the Tranquility and the amp, in various Dodd receptacles and directly into the wall. I hope I hit upon a configuration that improves the sound.
My system sounds much better late at night, so I obviously have various types of noise in the A/C to deal with, as most of us do.
Thanks again. :thumb:
-
Well, it was worth the wait! Thanks for the detailed insight into what works best for you. I will definitely experiment when the Dodd comes. Danny should be sending an Electra Cable B-7 as well, so I can try that with the Tranquility and the amp, in various Dodd receptacles and directly into the wall. I hope I hit upon a configuration that improves the sound.
My system sounds much better late at night, so I obviously have various types of noise in the A/C to deal with, as most of us do.
Thanks again. :thumb:
N/P zoo. :D
-
Read this post.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Review-Ultra-Fi-Musicstream-USB-DAC
Bryan
Dear Bryan,
Please state clearly the relevance that you see to the Tranquility DAC.
The DAC reviewed in this link has no relation to the Tranquility. The reviewer says the DAC showed up in his system (a Mac) as "C-Media USB DAC". On my Mac the Tranquility shows up as "USB Audio DAC". And the sound that he describes is nothing like my experience or that of others with the Tranquility.
-
Dear Bryan,
Please state clearly the relevance that you see to the Tranquility DAC.
The DAC reviewed in this link has no relation to the Tranquility. The reviewer says the DAC showed up in his system (a Mac) as "C-Media USB DAC". On my Mac the Tranquility shows up as "USB Audio DAC". And the sound that he describes is nothing like my experience or that of others with the Tranquility.
I agree with newzooreview and do not see the relevance of Bryan's link. I read it and do not see the correlation between the two except them both being USB DAC's. Okay I'm going to go back to enjoying the Tranquility and spend my time on listening.
-
Tonight I decided to unplug my MacBook Pro to hear how things sound running on battery power. I have no idea why I haven't tried this before now, possibly because I had done this when the Havana was in my system and as I recall I had not experienced much more than a subtle difference. Amazing. Amazing. The increase in transparency and dynamics is far beyond what I had expected. And, it probably doesn't hurt that on battery power the MacBook's screen shuts down to conserve power.
-
This posting does not assume an accusatory or defamatory posture. I'm only pointing out that there may be a relationship here that people have heretofore been unaware. Whether this relationship is relevant to you or not is entirely up to you.
Here's the more relevant link:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Larry-Moore-Ultra-Fi
In the posting, an unfortunate buyer was "talked into" exceeding a 15 day return period. Say what you will, Larry may have followed the letter of the law, but you would certainly not say that Larry was fair or genuine in his dealing with the customer. For the record, Larry has had plenty of time to respond, and has not taken the opportunity to do so. Read into that however you will.
As per this Positive Feedback article, you will also note that Eric Heider shared a partnership with Larry Moore, a partnership in the UltraFi business. And also that Larry Moore was a former Bell Labs engineer.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_moore.htm
Finally, on the dB Labs home page, it says:
"[The] Tranquility DAC is the cumulation of over three years of research and development by an assembled team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories."
I suspect that in this case "a team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories" may really be a single engineer, namely Larry Moore. Having said all that, I don't blame Eric, and in the posting on Computer Audiophile it seems like he tried to do the right thing.
-
Note that this posting does not assume an accusatory or defamatory posture.
Everyone who has reported purchasing a Tranquility DAC from dB Audio has had a very good experience.
I've received exceptionally responsive and helpful customer service from Eric, and as I mentioned earlier when I opened the DAC it was very obviously a clean and careful design (dB Audio is printed on the circuit board, so this is not something thrown together, re-purposed, or an off-the-shelf board inside).
The sound from the Tranquility DAC is also exceptional by all reports from those who have heard them. I'm very happy with mine, compared to a well-regarded PS Audio DAC with Level III Cullen mods (fed by a HiFace asynchronous USB to coax adapter). As I've posted above I'm currently seeking to improve the power coming into the DAC (and my amp) to find its full potential.
Those are the facts that are relevant in my view.
-
I agree with newzooreview and do not see the relevance of Bryan's link. I read it and do not see the correlation between the two except them both being USB DAC's. Okay I'm going to go back to enjoying the Tranquility and spend my time on listening.
The relevance is, admittedly a little vague...but, it has more to do with the earlier questions by wilysnet about Larry Moore than the Tranquility DAC itself.
Let's leave just a teensy bit of liberty towards fellow audiophools to discuss matters lightly attached to, rather than directly connected to, the DAC itself. Eric could himself connect some of the loose dots to that post by filling in his current or past relationship with Larry Moore, etc...but I suspect he's busy making DAC's ( 8)) and hasn't chimed in for a day+
Thx, John / co-Mod
-
This posting does not assume an accusatory or defamatory posture. I'm only pointing out that there may be a relationship here that people have heretofore been unaware. Whether this relationship is relevant to you or not is entirely up to you.
Here's the more relevant link:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Larry-Moore-Ultra-Fi
In the posting, an unfortunate buyer was "talked into" exceeding a 15 day return period. Say what you will, Larry may have followed the letter of the law, but you would certainly not say that Larry was fair or genuine in his dealing with the customer. For the record, Larry has had plenty of time to respond, and has not taken the opportunity to do so. Read into that however you will.
As per this Positive Feedback article, you will also note that Eric Heider shared a partnership with Larry Moore, a partnership in the UltraFi business. And also that Larry Moore was a former Bell Labs engineer.
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue41/ca_moore.htm
Finally, on the dB Labs home page, it says:
"[The] Tranquility DAC is the cumulation of over three years of research and development by an assembled team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories."
I suspect that in this case "a team of engineers who previously worked at Bell Laboratories" may really be a single engineer, namely Larry Moore. Having said all that, I don't blame Eric, and in the posting on Computer Audiophile it seems like he tried to do the right thing.
its only relevance, if any, is it shows that, regardless of who helped design the tranquility dac, eric h's business practices seem to be diametrically opposed to larry moore's... 8)
doug s.
-
I'm thinking of getting the Tranquility in for a trial. It's in my price range and seems like a promising DAC for a computer music server I'm building. The DAC being the last piece of the puzzle. So far I have auditioned at home a Metric Halo ULN2 and the Ayre QB9 and I do like the QB9 the most so far. I also have a temporary DAC, the HRT Streamer, which will go to a family room system once I finalize the DAC for this system.
I'm curious if anyone reading this thread has compared the Tranquility to the Ayre. Or knows of someone who has. I'm interested in what the differences are. Not necessarily which was better, but how are they different, how are they similar.
Bryan
-
Anyone know what the warranty is for the Tranquility DAC? Can't find any information on the website about this.
-
Sure wish there was someway to hook up my music server a Logitech SB3 with digital coax cable out to the tranquility. Unless I can find a way I'm out of luck getting a Tranquility DAC. Too bad there isn't some kind of adapter that would do the job.
Cheers
Charlie
-
Has this review turned into some kind of product support thread? :scratch:
-
Guys, this thread has been quite good so far, but please try to keep things polite and relatively on-topic. Some veering off course is expected and tolerated, but let's try not to get too far off into the weeds.
In addition, discussions of relative business practices between vendors starts to get a bit dicey. Comments on sales and support interactions with a vendor are entirely welcome as part of a review, whether those experiences are good or bad. That said, AC does have a no dirty laundry policy, so please be respectful and especially on-point with such comments so we don't have to prune the thread.
Also, please keep in mind that this is a review thread and thus open to everyone, including all manufacturers. Part of what makes AC unique is that manufacturers are willing to respond to AC member's questions on an open forum. That said, I generally suggest that manufacturers focus on answering member questions and describing only their own products, and specifically avoid commenting on or comparing against other manufacturers components.
Thanks!
Co-facilitator of the Critic's Circles
-
Anyone know what the warranty is for the Tranquility DAC? Can't find any information on the website about this.
On the spec page at the bottom:
"Three year unlimited warranty, fully transferable."
-
On the spec page at the bottom:
"Three year unlimited warranty, fully transferable."
Ah, thanks. Just got the same word from Eric. No complaints.
- Greg
-
On the spec page at the bottom:
"Three year unlimited warranty, fully transferable."
I looked at their website today and saw the warranty after I read that post. Sure gives a person piece of mind it's taken care of for the first 3 years. :)
-
I'm new to the game here...and don't have time to read the entire thread, but I feel quite strongly about adding my two cents.
I heard this DAC fed by Hider's MacMini through a very carefully constructed high-end rig, which I can get specifics on if anyone cares...but I've enjoyed this system before, mostly with vinyl.
I knew I was going to hear something new, but didn't have the specifics. After some time setting up, which I didn't care to see...Hider can be very particular about his procedures and there was good beer to drink and conversation to be had in the next room...we finally commenced to listening.
It wasn't blind, with either or both eyes (heh), but my initial reaction was palatable.
I simply couldn't believe it was coming from the computer. Even though it was right in front of me, it was tough to believe the fluidity and decay and staging width and depth were from iTunes fed through USB. I couldn't reconcile what I was hearing with what I saw.
This was a paradigm change for me, but I've not kept up on computer audio...like the old Home Theater PC pioneering days, every demo was a disappointment...until this one.
Next time Eric is through Detroit, we can setup a demo using some recordings I've done live...and we can also play with my MIT Z-box and cables (thanks for that report, btw, killer experimenting) and a few other line conditioners that I've grown very fond of over the years. I would be curious to hear comparisons to competing product, and then we can do the double-confusion testing.
So, in short...this thing holds promise. It has me excited over computer handling of music now, and that is a HUGE deal to me.
Cheers,
John
P.S.: In full disclosure, I've known Eric for over ten years...since I met him through a very early ISF calibration on his Sony RP Television...and consider him a man of high integrity, honesty, and good intent. He's been turning me onto cheap tweaks and such for high-end gear seemingly forever, but this device is absolutely the most groundbreaking item he's ever brought to my attention. It is as if his quest for perfection is closer to completion, and if you knew the guy like I do...that is the largest compliment I can make to him. He is one of the most fastidiously detail-oriented people I've ever met...and almost NEVER obviously happy. With this product, he is obviously pleased, and seems eager to share it.
WOW...I can't believe this! It's John Gannon, who used to be a Stereophile reviewer, chimed in with a positive post about the Tranquility DAC. :banana piano:
-
Eric...
I'm a prospective customer that will wait until you introduce a model with SPDIF and perhaps I2S inputs. Do you have an idea for a time line on the SPDIF version? Will you use RCA or BNC (or both)? If you implement I2S as an input, what connection format would you use? (Such as the Empirical Audio RJ45 or PS Audio HDMI formats.) It would be nice if manufacturers would get around to a standard on I2S interconnects.
- Rand
-
Eric...
I'm a prospective customer that will wait until you introduce a model with SPDIF and perhaps I2S inputs. Do you have an idea for a time line on the SPDIF version? Will you use RCA or BNC (or both)? If you implement I2S as an input, what connection format would you use? (Such as the Empirical Audio RJ45 or PS Audio HDMI formats.) It would be nice if manufacturers would get around to a standard on I2S interconnects.
From page 5 of this thread:
We have been working our "R & D tails off" attempting to develop a SPDIF connectable dac that comes close or equals the sonics of our Tranquility USB dac. As Newzooreview correctly pointed out, SPDIF is a mess when compared to a USB dac (done right). SPDIF pales in comparison to a USB connection, how it elegantly transfers it's data and the error corrected bit perfect sound that a computer offers us. Jitter is on so many more nodes throughout the SPDIF process too, it's not even funny. We like to call SPDIF "an ugly tangled mess". With the SPDIF format, you end up "interleaving" the clock signal with the digital music signal. ARGH! It then has to be all "untangled". USB is elegantly simple without this "tangled mess" comparably.
We are still quite surprised that the audio reviewer community still does not seem to understand this basic principal regarding how SPDIF can't really hold a candle to USB done right. Unless perhaps you use Esoteric's $15,000 Rubidium clock "fixer", and even then, it is NOT a better interface even with $15K "fixer" when compared to a USB solution done correctly! Of course, not every USB dac is "done right" either. And then there's the overtly simplistic idea of comparing the different inputs on a dac that has both USB and SPDIF connections. Multiple digital inputs affect each other negatively. Each one has to be optimized to sound great. And you can NOT achieve multiple different digital inputs that all sound great without a huge cost to the consumer. Each digital input circuit would need to be separated from the other with tons of costly circuitry. Otherwise, the USB input on a multiple input dac can sound abysmal. Is this why so many audiophiles and reviewers think SPDIF is superior?
Ever wonder why the Tranquility dac has only one solitary USB digital input? Now you know aa
So, where do we personally stand on our upcoming SPDIF dac? We are still in the R & D phase. We have many more challenges to properly address all of SPDIF's inherent weaknesses but we are finding some promising results. There are some new IC's that we are testing along with some newfound proprietary optimizations that we discovered. In the end though, we will NOT release a SPDIF dac until we can find the same elusive analog like harmonic structure we found for the Tranquility USB dac design. Look for an upcoming announcement regarding our SPDIF dac late this winter. Sorry we can't give a firm timeline here. We will not offer another "typical sounding" SPDIF dac. It will have to be special.
Steve
-
From page 5 of this thread:
I remember much of that which is why I mentioned I was a(nother) person holding out for that model. I would be very happy to skip SPDIF and USB and connect by I2S compatible with the Empirical Audio port. I2S input would skip the problems inherent to both USB and SPDIF. I understand that Tranquility is a complete solution with USB - I'm one in a minority that wants the fine aspects of that design minus the USB.
-
Did anybody compare the tranquility dac with an ayre qb-9 dac, definately interested in the usb route??
-
I'm thinking of getting the Tranquility in for a trial. It's in my price range and seems like a promising DAC for a computer music server I'm building. The DAC being the last piece of the puzzle. So far I have auditioned at home a Metric Halo ULN2 and the Ayre QB9 and I do like the QB9 the most so far. I also have a temporary DAC, the HRT Streamer, which will go to a family room system once I finalize the DAC for this system.
I'm curious if anyone reading this thread has compared the Tranquility to the Ayre. Or knows of someone who has. I'm interested in what the differences are. Not necessarily which was better, but how are they different, how are they similar.
Bryan
Bryan, please keep us posted if you get the tranquility for a comparison :thumb:
-
Hey guys,
Some have asked if an engineer named Larry Moore is working with db Audio Labs. The answer is yes, he is one of our contract for hire designers that we chose for the Tranquility design. His design expertise in digital was proven to me and our staff by his prior work on his own company’s Ultra-fi “iRoc” and “Musicstream” DAC designs.
Personally, I've known Larry for about five years now. In the past, I’ve helped him get published online, with a reviewer’s digital Q & A blog on the net. I’ve also spoken highly of Ultra-fi products along with many other Ultra-fi customers alike. However, I’ve never worked for Ultra-fi, been paid in any way nor have I profited from the sale of an Ultra-fi product.
A little over a year ago, Larry told me that he was having major difficulties with a customer who wanted a refund after an agreed audition period. That customer had subsequently threatened Larry, called many of his prior Ultra-fi customers, called a reviewer, and even called one of Larry's neighbors telling them; Larry is a shady guy. I offered to be a Good Will Ambassador between this customer and Larry to see if I could smooth things over. I contacted the guy and he told me straight up - “I am going to make it my mission in life to ruin Larry Moore”. I didn’t take sides in this matter, as I figured he just needed to get rid of some built up steam. Weeks later, I helped him find a new home for his Ultra-fi dac. His dac got sold. He got the money. The new owner of the Ultra-fi dac is a very happy customer.
What did I get for being a Good Will Ambassador to this guy? He posted a venomous thread on another forum throwing anyone and everyone under the bus. That thread got locked down almost immediately. No one can say anything to refute the guy’s posted rants. So, dear readers, there is one solitary pissed off customer, that bought an Ultra-fi product from Larry Moore. I attempted to be a Good Will Ambassador and helped him. His dac is now sold. And his rants are locked in infamy.
As a final note, db Audio Labs' contracted designers have no say in our customer relation policies. We strive to offer a level of customer satisfaction that is beyond reproach! Excellent customer support and service are our top priorities! :thumb:
Cheers,
Eric H
-
I have had the dB Tranquility in my system now for almost one month. Like other NOS DAC's I have owned (Altmann, Audiosector) it has that whole, organic, nicely balanced, and very easy to listen to character. The Tranquility punches lower and sparkles higher though, than I recollect either of my previous NOS DAC's doing; though it has been some time since I owned either of these. It presents a clear window on recordings without being brutal and offers very nice sound-staging and imaging.
Very high quality sound comes from the Tranquility. It has a smooth, liquid midrange. I am fine with its 16/44.1 spec as that is what all 320 GB of lossless my music are. I have a track record of liking the NOS sound.
Instruments sound like they should (in my experience) as does the human voice, through the Tranquility. Whether it was break-in, warming up, or just me getting used to the sound, I did enjoy the DAC more after a couple hundred hours. I have had some other USB DAC's (Beresford 7520 & Caiman, Valab) in my system and always preferred the S/PDIF input to the USB. The Tranquility DAC seems to get USB right.
Eric has been a pleasure to deal with and has offered many good tips on optimizing computer set-up for quality sound. This is a fine DAC that, if it fits your system needs, you should not hesitate to demo. I think the only way to know is to try things out in your own system/room. As always, YMMV and system synergy and personal taste are everything.
-
Hey guys,
Some have asked if an engineer named Larry Moore is working with db Audio Labs. The answer is yes, he is one of our contract for hire designers that we chose for the Tranquility design. His design expertise in digital was proven to me and our staff by his prior work on his own company’s Ultra-fi “iRoc” and “Musicstream” DAC designs.
Personally, I've known Larry for about five years now. In the past, I’ve helped him get published online, with a reviewer’s digital Q & A blog on the net. I’ve also spoken highly of Ultra-fi products along with many other Ultra-fi customers alike. However, I’ve never worked for Ultra-fi, been paid in any way nor have I profited from the sale of an Ultra-fi product.
A little over a year ago, Larry told me that he was having major difficulties with a customer who wanted a refund after an agreed audition period. That customer had subsequently threatened Larry, called many of his prior Ultra-fi customers, called a reviewer, and even called one of Larry's neighbors telling them; Larry is a shady guy. I offered to be a Good Will Ambassador between this customer and Larry to see if I could smooth things over. I contacted the guy and he told me straight up - “I am going to make it my mission in life to ruin Larry Moore”. I didn’t take sides in this matter, as I figured he just needed to get rid of some built up steam. Weeks later, I helped him find a new home for his Ultra-fi dac. His dac got sold. He got the money. The new owner of the Ultra-fi dac is a very happy customer.
What did I get for being a Good Will Ambassador to this guy? He posted a venomous thread on another forum throwing anyone and everyone under the bus. That thread got locked down almost immediately. No one can say anything to refute the guy’s posted rants. So, dear readers, there is one solitary pissed off customer, that bought an Ultra-fi product from Larry Moore. I attempted to be a Good Will Ambassador and helped him. His dac is now sold. And his rants are locked in infamy.
As a final note, db Audio Labs' contracted designers have no say in our customer relation policies. We strive to offer a level of customer satisfaction that is beyond reproach! Excellent customer support and service are our top priorities! :thumb:
Cheers,
Eric H
FWIW...I purchased a custom DAC from Larry Moore about 5-6 months ago. I have nothing but good things to say about both him and his engineering. I was a bit concerned regarding the future service/support of an expensive one-off piece of equipment but after speaking with Larry I'm very confident that he stands behind anything he design/builds. I'm not sure how things transpired with the reviewer but I witnessed not a hint of bad mojo from Larry and my DAC kicks serious ass.
-
Hey guys,
Some have asked if an engineer named Larry Moore is working with db Audio Labs. The answer is yes, he is one of our contract for hire designers that we chose for the Tranquility design. His design expertise in digital was proven to me and our staff by his prior work on his own company’s Ultra-fi “iRoc” and “Musicstream” DAC designs.
Personally, I've known Larry for about five years now. In the past, I’ve helped him get published online, with a reviewer’s digital Q & A blog on the net. I’ve also spoken highly of Ultra-fi products along with many other Ultra-fi customers alike. However, I’ve never worked for Ultra-fi, been paid in any way nor have I profited from the sale of an Ultra-fi product.
A little over a year ago, Larry told me that he was having major difficulties with a customer who wanted a refund after an agreed audition period. That customer had subsequently threatened Larry, called many of his prior Ultra-fi customers, called a reviewer, and even called one of Larry's neighbors telling them; Larry is a shady guy. I offered to be a Good Will Ambassador between this customer and Larry to see if I could smooth things over. I contacted the guy and he told me straight up - “I am going to make it my mission in life to ruin Larry Moore”. I didn’t take sides in this matter, as I figured he just needed to get rid of some built up steam. Weeks later, I helped him find a new home for his Ultra-fi dac. His dac got sold. He got the money. The new owner of the Ultra-fi dac is a very happy customer.
What did I get for being a Good Will Ambassador to this guy? He posted a venomous thread on another forum throwing anyone and everyone under the bus. That thread got locked down almost immediately. No one can say anything to refute the guy’s posted rants. So, dear readers, there is one solitary pissed off customer, that bought an Ultra-fi product from Larry Moore. I attempted to be a Good Will Ambassador and helped him. His dac is now sold. And his rants are locked in infamy.
As a final note, db Audio Labs' contracted designers have no say in our customer relation policies. We strive to offer a level of customer satisfaction that is beyond reproach! Excellent customer support and service are our top priorities! :thumb:
Cheers,
Eric H
Eric, no worries from me. I have an arch nemesis that has plagued me on several forums. I was successful (with some other, really pissed off people) in getting him banned from that forum. He has a vendetta against me and everything that I say, do, design, sell or even think of comes straight from Satan according to him. I lie, cheat, steal, exaggerate, and eat small children. There is one in every bunch that just HAS to have a contract out on anyone that either disagrees with, or in some way feels slighted by, someone else.
Bottom line is this: what goes around comes around and he will reap what he sows. I don't think that there is anyone here that will let someone with an axe to grind "scare them off" of what I think is a great product. I have spoken to several people that have your DAC and everyone has only the higest compliments to pay about the sound and your business policies.
I'm still saving some shekels and will be buying a Tranquility DAC with no reservations as soon as I can. It sounds EXCELLENT! So, worry not. Feed 'em fish heads and move on.
:wave:
Dave
-
Eric, thanks for responding in such a frank and transparent way. Not that you need my endorsement of course, but given your openness here and your description of circumstances, I would have no hesitation buying from dB Audio Labs.
Having said that, I don't know if I agree with your take on the UltraFi unsatisfied customer, but I do understand that these things are rarely black and white. Of course that has very little to do with dB Audio Labs today.
-
I got my Tranquility DAC on Friday and have been burning it in since then. Unfortunately I'll be travelling for the next 10 days, but when I return I will compare the Tranquility to my Pico DAC, Benchmark DAC1 Pre, and my Oppo BDP-83 SE. Eric was *very* helpful during the purchase process -- probably the best customer service I've had with audio gear.
-
Now that will be a great comparison - keep us posted!
I got my Tranquility DAC on Friday and have been burning it in since then. Unfortunately I'll be travelling for the next 10 days, but when I return I will compare the Tranquility to my Pico DAC, Benchmark DAC1 Pre, and my Oppo BDP-83 SE. Eric was *very* helpful during the purchase process -- probably the best customer service I've had with audio gear.
-
I'm re-posting this since it seems not to have made it here where I intended :scratch:
Speaking of websites, I noticed yesterday that the dB Audio site (http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/) has a new section up on "Tech Talk" that summarizes some of the electronics design info that Eric has posted here and that elaborates on a few things that haven't been mentioned in this thread. Better check it out soon before the hacker extortionists get there! :o
-
Now that will be a great comparison - keep us posted!
Just make sure to use the same interconnects, to remove one item that could make a modification in the sound.
-
First one on A'gon:
http://http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1270837075&/Db-Audio-Labs-Tranquility-DAC-
Will be replaced with something "much more expensive".(?)
-
First one on A'gon:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1270837075&/Db-Audio-Labs-Tranquility-DAC- (http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlconv&1270837075&/Db-Audio-Labs-Tranquility-DAC-)
Will be replaced with something "much more expensive".(?)
Damn that went fast, sold in just a few hours after posting. 8)
-
Damn that went fast, sold in just a few hours after posting. 8)
I'm not surprised.....it is new and there is still a great deal of excitement about it--excitement that is deserved IMHO. I am keeping mine.
-
I'm hoping mine shows up in the mail today. Will let you all know my impressions compared to the Peachtree Nova and Channel Islands VDA-2.
-
To add to that...
1) If you want to review another product, we would absolutely appreciate your insight, but please start a new thread rather than divert this one.
2) Please try not to degrade the signal-to-noise ratio of this thread (or any review thread)... consider whether your post adds anything useful to the thread before you post. (Hint: attacking others does not improve the signal-to-noise ratio!)
3) John and I are both actively watching this thread, so there is little need for people to keep sending us PMs. If we haven't responded, it is simply because we really don't want to interfere any more than we must, or we're busy and not logged in at that particular time.
Thanks for your understanding.
-
If we haven't responded, it is simply because we really don't want to interfere any more than we must, or we're busy and not logged in at that particular time.
Thanks for your understanding.
***********************************
Cool.
:green:
I am personally interested in all kinds of USB DACs at the moment so another open thread would be a good thing. OTOH, the dB AudioLabs DAC is getting really great reviews and it is good to keep this thread on topic.
Eric, I'm still saving my shekels. The remodel is kind of kicking my USB dreams to the curb right now, so I bought an ebay cheapie to tide me over... I can hardly wait to get my Tranquility!
I love this hobby/profession/obsession.
Dave
-
This thread was suggested to me when I asked about newer NOS USB DAC offerings.
Glossing this thread that is filled with adhomenim attacks/distractions, I will refuse to do business with company that doesn't honor their refund policy.
Moderators, please think of this post as a positive addition to this thread. I, for one, do think both good and bad word of mouth are important.
This is why forums such as this one is important. Basically, if you start deleting threads such as these, you're only hurting this forum's integrity.
I think the point of the moderator's stance is that the posts in question have no relevance to dB Audio Labs and Eric Hider. That is an apples and oranges comparison at best. I have heard the DAC, it rocks, people have nothing but good to say about the business practices of dB Audio Labs and that is what is important. As another small audio business owner, I rely upon word of mouth as much as any other form of advertisement to help sell my products. If a someone decides for what ever reason that I am the antichrist, there is little that I can do to quell his or her statements. I have been slimed on another forum because my business addresses a portion of the audio equation that some people deem irrelevant. It is hard to emerge from the goo when someone has a vindictive bent to their posts. It is not in anyones' best interests to diss someone for a he said/he said disagreement that is not pertinent.
My buck twenty.
Dave
-
I think the point of the moderator's stance is that the posts in question have no relevance to dB Audio Labs and Eric Hider. That is an apples and oranges comparison at best. I have heard the DAC, it rocks, people have nothing but good to say about the business practices of dB Audio Labs and that is what is important. As another small audio business owner, I rely upon word of mouth as much as any other form of advertisement to help sell my products. If a someone decides for what ever reason that I am the antichrist, there is little that I can do to quell his or her statements. I have been slimed on another forum because my business addresses a portion of the audio equation that some people deem irrelevant. It is hard to emerge from the goo when someone has a vindictive bent to their posts. It is not in anyones' best interests to diss someone for a he said/he said disagreement that is not pertinent.
My buck twenty.
Dave
Dave, I agree with you. It is apples and oranges until the proprietor of this thread initiated the attack on someone who wasn't even a participant in this thread. Not only do I find this fishy but when the person being attacked attempted to defend himself, he is considered out of line.
Sorry, but I find this fishy and no longer think apples and oranges metaphor applies.
Ed
-
I'm the proprietor of this thread so I think you are a bit confused.
Sorry I meant the proprietor of the company this thread's product is about.
-
Sorry I meant the proprietor of the company this thread's product is about.
Viggen, have you had poor customer service from dB Audio Labs?
-
Great - the topic has been properly swiss-cheesed now with most of the offending posts taken out. I hope there's a semblance of flow to this topic now...I tried to prune carefully.
Let's back to the subject at hand...a review of the db Audio Labs Tranquility DAC.
Larry Moore, and or former company policies seem to have no bearing on this topic.
Please get back to the topic, guys :thumb:
John
-
So, how about that DAC? Isn't it just the bomb!
(http://)
-
Ok, I've had the Tranquility in my system now since Wednesday evening (now Sunday morning). It's played mostly continuously, logging somewhere in the low 80's of hours at this point. My computer is using linux (Xubuntu) running Rhythmbox as the music player, files are FLAC on an external hard drive. Virtue USB cable between hard drive and computer, Ridge Street Audio Alethias from computer to Tranquility. I've had the Alethias for about a year now, so it's well worn in at this point. Peachtree Nova as preamp (and USB DAC comparison), and Wyred4Sound SX-500 monoblocks. Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Monitors. You can see cabling in my system description through my link.
Now for my impressions. When first installed, I heard a little more air in the recordings than I was used to, but the overall separation of instruments, etc was pretty much on par with the Peachtree Nova performance. This was probably true again after about 15 hours of use when I listened again with some friends. We swapped back and forth on a couple tracks between the Nova and the Tranquility. I thought there was a bit of a difference balanced toward the Tranquility, but it was subtle even for me.
Fast forward to around the 40-45 hour mark (next time I really listened), and I was beginning to hear more instrumental separation and overall clarity. Seemed like some haze/hash was leaving. Some of my favorite tracks had more instrumental definition. I like to use Barfly by Ray Lamontagne as one of my test tracks. It's a slow paced song with breathy male vocals (like only Ray can do) and has good subtle brush percussion along with a great bluesy guitar. Late in the song, the whole band kicks into another gear, and the percussion is key to this transition. I like to listen to the emphatic tom tom strikes as the drummer goes from brushes to sticks (or at least using the solid end of the brushes). My previous comparisons between the Channel Island VDA-2 (with VAC-1 and good cables) and the Peachtree Nova DAC were that the CI DAC delivered a more solid and fleshy embodiment of these drums. The guitars were also more bluesy. And the rhythm (PRAT) was better too. With the Tranquility on Friday night, I could hear much further into that transition than ever previously. I could hear that it was probably not moving from brushes to drum sticks, but probably more like hitting the toms with the solid end of the brushes. It was a little surprising revelation.
Fast forward to about 65-70 hours (last night's listening session). I was hearing more vocal nuances on several recordings than ever before. The overall presentation was quite a bit more relaxed than before, especially compared to those first hours. Dimensionality had probably increased a bit more. I'm beginning to really hear why people think this is a special unit.
At first, I was doubting it was going to be better enough to justify the expense beyond what I already had. The progress in these last two days has been pretty impressive. I'm not prone to hyperbole when doing critical listening, so I'll stop short of saying it's remarkable. However, as a careful listener, and as a fairly cash-strapped and bang-for-the-buck audiophile/enthusiast, I'm almost certain the unit is here to stay.
I'll probably follow up once more after 100 hours has been reached. I wanted to share my thoughts here, as I didn't think previous posters really laid out impressions over the progression of break-in. I, for one, had the impression things were pretty locked in from the beginning, based on previous posts. Based on this, I wasn't that impressed initially and thought I might be sending it back. I'm happy to say the changes over the course of these hours have been quite substantial in terms of increasing instrumental separation and clarifying all those subtle sonic qualities of instruments and voice. I could tell the sound was dense initially, but I wasn't getting anything like clarity. I'm happy that clarity has been coming forth in the last listening sessions. If it continues to improve at this pace all the way through 100 hours or so, this will have been a very special purchase - the foundation for some other needed improvements in my system.
~Ben
-
Ok, I've had the Tranquility in my system now since Wednesday evening (now Sunday morning). It's played mostly continuously, logging somewhere in the low 80's of hours at this point. My computer is using linux (Xubuntu) running Rhythmbox as the music player, files are FLAC on an external hard drive. Virtue USB cable between hard drive and computer, Ridge Street Audio Alethias from computer to Tranquility. I've had the Alethias for about a year now, so it's well worn in at this point. Peachtree Nova as preamp (and USB DAC comparison), and Wyred4Sound SX-500 monoblocks. Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Monitors. You can see cabling in my system description through my link.
Now for my impressions. When first installed, I heard a little more air in the recordings than I was used to, but the overall separation of instruments, etc was pretty much on par with the Peachtree Nova performance. This was probably true again after about 15 hours of use when I listened again with some friends. We swapped back and forth on a couple tracks between the Nova and the Tranquility. I thought there was a bit of a difference balanced toward the Tranquility, but it was subtle even for me.
Fast forward to around the 40-45 hour mark (next time I really listened), and I was beginning to hear more instrumental separation and overall clarity. Seemed like some haze/hash was leaving. Some of my favorite tracks had more instrumental definition. I like to use Barfly by Ray Lamontagne as one of my test tracks. It's a slow paced song with breathy male vocals (like only Ray can do) and has good subtle brush percussion along with a great bluesy guitar. Late in the song, the whole band kicks into another gear, and the percussion is key to this transition. I like to listen to the emphatic tom tom strikes as the drummer goes from brushes to sticks (or at least using the solid end of the brushes). My previous comparisons between the Channel Island VDA-2 (with VAC-1 and good cables) and the Peachtree Nova DAC were that the CI DAC delivered a more solid and fleshy embodiment of these drums. The guitars were also more bluesy. And the rhythm (PRAT) was better too. With the Tranquility on Friday night, I could hear much further into that transition than ever previously. I could hear that it was probably not moving from brushes to drum sticks, but probably more like hitting the toms with the solid end of the brushes. It was a little surprising revelation.
Fast forward to about 65-70 hours (last night's listening session). I was hearing more vocal nuances on several recordings than ever before. The overall presentation was quite a bit more relaxed than before, especially compared to those first hours. Dimensionality had probably increased a bit more. I'm beginning to really hear why people think this is a special unit.
At first, I was doubting it was going to be better enough to justify the expense beyond what I already had. The progress in these last two days has been pretty impressive. I'm not prone to hyperbole when doing critical listening, so I'll stop short of saying it's remarkable. However, as a careful listener, and as a fairly cash-strapped and bang-for-the-buck audiophile/enthusiast, I'm almost certain the unit is here to stay.
I'll probably follow up once more after 100 hours has been reached. I wanted to share my thoughts here, as I didn't think previous posters really laid out impressions over the progression of break-in. I, for one, had the impression things were pretty locked in from the beginning, based on previous posts. Based on this, I wasn't that impressed initially and thought I might be sending it back. I'm happy to say the changes over the course of these hours have been quite substantial in terms of increasing instrumental separation and clarifying all those subtle sonic qualities of instruments and voice. I could tell the sound was dense initially, but I wasn't getting anything like clarity. I'm happy that clarity has been coming forth in the last listening sessions. If it continues to improve at this pace all the way through 100 hours or so, this will have been a very special purchase - the foundation for some other needed improvements in my system.
~Ben
Great post. Regardless of what it is attributed to (break-in, warming up, getting used to it) I too found the DAC to come into its own more at about the 150-200 hour mark.
-
Same here--200 hours break-in will really reveal what it's capable of.
The three major improvements with sound on the Tranquility DAC came with a) break-in, b) getting an Alethias USB cable, and c) getting it plugged directly into the wall. I now have it plugged into a laboratory-grade surge protector that provides some EMI/RFI filtering (made by elec-spect.com) and that seems to have cleaned up a little graininess as well (and gives me good surge protection, which I wanted).
-
Well, after about 100 hours it's doing very well. What would you say happens over that second 100 hours that hasn't over the first?
-
Well, after about 100 hours it's doing very well. What would you say happens over that second 100 hours that hasn't over the first?
Hard to give you a good answer because I added the Alethias USB cable into the mix during break-in, and my final evaluation was for both additively. I'll be curious to hear what you find after 200 hours vs. 100. May be subtle?
-
Well, I have been listening to the Tranquility DAC in my system for more then a month now. I would like to briefly share my experience. My system consists of a MacBook Pro, Virtue USB cable, BAT VK-3ix, Kimber Hero, Mac 275, Kimber 8tc, Thiel 2.4. My other digital source is a CAL Audio cl-15 CD player.
The reason I became interested in a computer linked system is the age of my CD player and the convenience factor. My only prior attempt at a separate DAC was an HRT Music Streamer+. I returned this DAC after a few weeks because I preferred my CD player for being more dynamic and, overall, more engaging. While the HRT was pleasant it did not pull me into the music. My observations with the Tranquility DAC are the exact opposite. I now prefer to listen to the MAC-Tranquility system. I can not say much about soundstage, frequency extension, air etc. except that there is nothing missing for me. However, I can say that I often listen to music while reading and repeatedly my attention has been pulled away from such activity and towards the music. I often find myself tapping my foot while listening. Even my wife who does not subscribe to this hobby, well, I have witnessed her singing along. So, this has been a very positive experience. I also want to mention, like others have before, that Eric was extremely helpful in optimizing my system.
-
@borism
I was using the Virtue USB cable when I first got the Tranquility DAC. It's good, but I did notice a worthwhile improvement when I upgraded. You've probably already gotten an e-mail from Eric about their new "Essential" USB cable. It sounds like they are sending them out to Tranquility owners for evaluation. It will be interesting to hear your impressions. I'll post mine as well.
-
Yes I received Eric's email and have responded that I am interested in a trial of the new USB cable. I am not sure if I will be able to hear any difference so a free trial seems great.
-
@borism
I agree with your skepticism on the differences between USB cables.
I did hear a difference in my system between the Alethias and the Virtue cable. But on the other hand I've tried more expensive power cables in my system that didn't make a difference. Eric's try-it-for-free offer is certainly reasonable. I'm hoping it comes next week sometime.
-
I think it's extraordinary that dB Audio has developed it's own usb cable and is shipping it, no strings attached, to current Tranquility owners. As I mentioned to Eric I've dealt with many audio companies with great customer service but in my opinion this puts dB Audio near or at the top. That a company, unsolicited, would send me one of their products with no strings attached because they believe it will enhance my enjoyment of a product I already own (and have purchase from them) blows me away. Not to mention the price...I own two well reviewed usb cables and both cost more than the dB Audio cable at it's nondiscounted price. Based on my experience with the Tranquility I expect this cable to live up to my expectations.
-
I too think it a great way to do business: sending existing customers a new product to try out for free. I am still REALLY enjoying my Tranquility DAC and look forward to auditioning their new USB cable.
I had been using the Virtue cable quite happily for some time. I've had the new Cardas ($134) cable in my sytem for about one month now and it really brought the overall SQ of my system up a significant level. Really nice bass performance, high end shimmer and sparkle.
Will report after my week with the new dB cable.
-
@borism
I agree with your skepticism on the differences between USB cables.
I did hear a difference in my system between the Alethias and the Virtue cable. But on the other hand I've tried more expensive power cables in my system that didn't make a difference. Eric's try-it-for-free offer is certainly reasonable. I'm hoping it comes next week sometime.
For those who don't think USB cables can make a drastic improvement, I would highly recommend that you try out and compare yours with a Locus Design Axis or the even higher priced Nucleus USB cables. You just might be pleasently surprised with what can be achieved with the right USB cable. :thumb:
I hope to try the Tranquility with my Nucleus cable one of these days myself. :D
Cheers,
Robin
-
I hope to try the Tranquility with my Nucleus cable one of these days myself. :D
Cheers,
Robin
>$230 simply to try out the Nucleus cable? No thanks. That's more than the new dB Audio cable costs to purchase, and Eric says their new cable betters the other audiophile USB cables out there. Obviously that claim may not include the Nucleus, but until Locus Design adopts a less condescending attitude towards its potential customers I won't be finding out first hand. Kudos to dB Audio and Danny and Dave at PI Audio for their excellent customer service and realistic product try-out policies.
-
>$230 simply to try out the Nucleus cable? No thanks. That's more than the new dB Audio cable costs to purchase, and Eric says their new cable betters the other audiophile USB cables out there. Obviously that claim may not include the Nucleus, but until Locus Design adopts a less condescending attitude towards its potential customers I won't be finding out first hand. Kudos to dB Audio and Danny and Dave at PI Audio for their excellent customer service and realistic product try-out policies.
Sorry to hear that as it goes against everything I've ever experienced from Lee personally. Best of luck with your new DAC. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Anyone have ideas for power cables in the reasonable (~$200) range? Right now I'm using a Cardas Quadlink... Seems decent, but I haven't tried anything else in comparison. I have other cables but the Cardas is the only one long enough to reach the DAC in my current setup.
-
Sorry to hear that as it goes against everything I've ever experienced from Lee personally.
I know Lee as well and have never seen any condescending attitude from him at all. He is definitely one of the good guys out there.
-
>$230 simply to try out the Nucleus cable? No thanks. That's more than the new dB Audio cable costs to purchase, and Eric says their new cable betters the other audiophile USB cables out there. Obviously that claim may not include the Nucleus, but until Locus Design adopts a less condescending attitude towards its potential customers I won't be finding out first hand. Kudos to dB Audio and Danny and Dave at PI Audio for their excellent customer service and realistic product try-out policies.
Charlie, thanks for your accolade. When a business like mine is brought online without deep pockets to do the big advertising splash to get it going, the only way to really succeed is to offer THE BEST product that I can for the money and to provide THE BEST customer service possible. A small business like mine exists and prospers on the strength of word of mouth. My Dad (I really miss the Old Man) had a saying: "One, aw s**t is worth a hundred 'ata-boys'". He was right about many things.
Thanks again to everyone that has supported me.
Dave
-
to really succeed is to offer THE BEST product that I can for the money and to provide THE BEST customer service possible.
Dave
You have succeeded at that IMO. :D
Dad would be proud!
-
You have succeeded at that IMO. :D
Dad would be proud!
I hope so. I'll ask him when I see him. :D
<><
Dave
-
For those who don't think USB cables can make a drastic improvement, I would highly recommend that you try out and compare yours with a Locus Design Axis or the even higher priced Nucleus USB cables. You just might be pleasently surprised with what can be achieved with the right USB cable. :thumb:
I hope to try the Tranquility with my Nucleus cable one of these days myself. :D
Cheers,
Robin
Have to agree. I wish the USB cable did not matter because personally, I hate spending money on cables. FWIW, I have found the difference in USB cables to be more significant than with other IC's (but that may just be me).
-
I know Lee as well and have never seen any condescending attitude from him at all. He is definitely one of the good guys out there.
Thanks Danny, Robin, et al.
Newzooreview, sorry if offended you somehow. I don't remember having any contact with you, but if I inadvertently did something to offend you, I apologize.
Good discussion guys, looks like Eric has a winner of a product on his hands here.
Peace,
Lee
-
I've been burning in the new DB Labs USB cable for about 4 days and even after 24 hours it was obvious that it's a keeper. In my system, the soundstage depth expanded and the air around the instruments improved. I was already using a very good USB cable so the improvements were subtle. For those considering a USB cable upgrade the sound quality and price of this cable makes this a no-brainer. Definitley musical which is what DB Labs strives to acheive. Don't be surprised if you hear songs a bit differently as a result of this cable as it allowed me to distinguish some instruments more clearly in songs.
-
@Cycles2
Any differences other than sound stage and air around the instruments? I'm still waiting for my audition cable to show up--do you notice the fluidity mentioned on the dB Audio site or other improvement in the high end (maybe this translates to the sense of air you note?). Looking forward to mine coming in the mail.
@Lee
My comments concern the tone and substance of the written policies posted on the Locus Design Group website. I don't know you and certainly don't have any personal animosity.
-
newzooreview,
The DB Labs USB cable of course handles all frquencies as you'd expect from a high-grade cable. Slam improved a bit and the bass tightened up. Mids and highs are also excellent. Like I mentioned before it's a more musical experience as the instruments are distinctly coming from different locations on the stage. I was listenig to a song last night and the snare drum is clearly located near the back of the stage. I've listened to this song hundred of times and was never able to identify where the snare drum was located on stage until using this cable.
Hope this helps.
-
@newzoo
OK, I certainly didn't remember having any dealings with you via phone or e-mail. I generally try to be pretty easy to get along with. :thumb:
As far as the return policy, I wanted to make sure there was no room for misunderstanding, so I was very clear in the terms. I believe in being up front and making sure a customer knows what the policy is, and then they can make an informed decision from there.
Peace,
Lee
-
For what it's worth:
I demo'ed a Locus Axis USB cable that belonged to one of my customers, and compared it to the Ridge Street Alethias. It was actually pretty close and very give and take. It could go either way depending on the system.
I guess in short, that cable was very good. Even if I thought the Ridge Street edged it slightly, it was only slightly.
The Axis cable was a lot less expensive than the Alethias and worth considerations or auditions.
-
For what it's worth:
I demo'ed a Locus Axis USB cable that belonged to one of my customers, and compared it to the Ridge Street Alethias. It was actually pretty close and very give and take. It could go either way depending on the system.
I guess in short, that cable was very good. Even if I thought the Ridge Street edged it slightly, it was only slightly.
The Axis cable was a lot less expensive than the Alethias and worth considerations or auditions.
FWIW, the Nucleus USB cable is in a whole nother league than the Axis. Then again so is the price. :lol: As for Lee's new Cynosure cable,,, I don't even want to go there. :duh: :duh: :duh:
My whole point was to answer Borism's skepticism that IMHO, USB cables do make a stark improvement over standard USB cables on these USB DACS/Transports and that improvement is relative to it's pricetag from the cables i've demo'd from Belden, Cardas, Ridge Street, and Locus Design. I ultimately chose Lee's Nucleus as it's clarity & sound stage depth/instrument sepaeration was the best I could find for the money I was willing to spend. I totally refuse to sample his Cynosure cable. :eyebrows: Gotta draw line somewhere,,,, :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
[blush] Thanks guys!
Robin, you are not allowed to try the Cynosure! :green:
Peace,
Lee
-
[blush] Thanks guys!
Robin, you are not allowed to try the Cynosure! :green:
Peace,
Lee
Bless you for that Lee. :notworthy: :duh: :D
-
Alright guys....a little meandering is allowed on a topic....but quite a bit of the last 2 pages was devoted to something other than the db Audio Labs Tranquility DAC.
Please let's keep on that path.
It's no one's 'fault' in particular - so don't anyone get offended - I'm simply trying to keep the topic on target.
Thx, John / co-Facilitator The Critic's Circle
-
I'll start a new post for discussion about the Essential USB Cable -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78546.new#new (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78546.new#new)
Tom
-
I've been using the Essential USB cable with the Tranquility DAC for 5 days now. The difference to my Virtue cable has been subtle but present. I did not expect to hear much difference. To me the soundstage has increased in all dimensions while paradoxically the focus has sharpened. There is more sense of air. It is a very musical and involving presentation. The Essential cable was developed with the Tranquility DAC in mind and possibly by some of the same people so system synergy is probably part of the design. This combination has been a joy to listen to. For now, everything is staying in my system.
-
I've had a Tranquility DAC for about a week, and now have a big smile on my face.
It's been a slightly rocky road. But a minor setup problem has been sorted, and the music sounds magnificent.
Right now I have about five different digital sources in my house in various states of functionality. Apart from the tranquility DAC, theres an Audio Sector USB DAC which won't work (I think it needs to go back to Peter for a new USB receiver chip), a Bolder modified Squeezebox 2, an Ultra-Fi iRoc DAC and a Peachtree Decco (which has a USB DAC, as well as all sorts of other stuff). Direct comparisons between these are tricky, as I use a single input pre-amp and they all display different amounts of gain. But just going from my doubtlessly flawed aural memory, the Tranquility sounds far superior to any of the others. If break-in improves things, this is going to get really good.
This morning I tried a little casual comparison between the iRoc and the Tranquility. The iRoc, which I thought sounded just fine, suddenly seemed thin and and sort of sterile. The Tranquility had more body, and gave a more 3-dimensional soundscape. Some things sounded so real, just jumping right out of the music, it was quite astounding.
I made this comparison while listening to the remastered Abbey Road. To give you an impression of how big a difference there was between the two DACs, I thought the improvement from moving from the iRoc to the Tranquility was more satisfying than the improvement from the remastering of the classic album. In fact, I'd say this might prove to be the second biggest single improvement I've had in my system (where the biggest improvement came from introducing a four-piece subwoofer system with an active crossover).
I don't know what state-of-the-art digital sounds like. But the Tranquility DAC is making a big improvement in a system I thought was sounding pretty good to begin with.
Chad
-
Chad,
I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of how the Tranquility sounds in comparison to the Peachtree. The Peachtree's Sabre chip gets a lot of praise, and I bet I'm not the only one curious how the Peachtree's DAC sound compares to the Tranquility.
-
Chad,
I'd be interested in hearing your impressions of how the Tranquility sounds in comparison to the Peachtree. The Peachtree's Sabre chip gets a lot of praise, and I bet I'm not the only one curious how the Peachtree's DAC sound compares to the Tranquility.
Sorry, I'm not going to be able to help you on that one. The Peachtree unit I have is one of the first generation of Deccos, which came withe a Scott Nixon tube DAC circuit rather than the Sabre chip. It's also a little trickier for me to make that comparison since the Decco doesn't have a line out for the DAC - it just has the pre-amp out. So to make any comparison I need to switch my pre-amp out of the system.
Chad
-
Ah, I see. Gotcha. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the Tranquility so much.
-
I just placed my order for a Tranquility DAC and USB cable with Eric this morning. I still have a whole lot of ripping to do so I will report back once it has arrived and is burned in. Eric was very personable over the phone and to say I'm not excited about the DAC would be a terrible understatement.
Regards,
Pete
-
So in order to use this DAC you have to use some sort of software and feed it directly from a computer versus feeding a Squeezebox? And what sort of computer software do you need on the computer to feed this DAC as using Squeezecenter is pretty darned convenient.
-
Could you use Squeezeplay and configure the computer to send the digital over the USB to the DAC?
-
It doesn't have to be any particular software. You can use anything you want, such as Foobar, MediaMonkey, Itunes, Winamp, Windows Media Center. Squeezecenter may also be compatible, but I've never used it and don't know how it works. You only need to set the settings to USB audio output as opposed to outputting to your computer's default sound card. Windows, Mac, and linux all have built-in USB-audio drivers.
In the case of linux (which I use), you have to go to a command prompt and use some asoundconf commands to redirect audio output. In the case of Windows and Mac, usually you just have to go into your music playing software's settings and change a drop-down tab to USB audio instead of whatever the name of your computer sound card is.
Pretty simple, and no proprietary drivers required.
-
Okay, sounds simple enough for me to use. Now I'm curious as to its sound compared to the upcoming Wyred unit. Hmmmm.... I know Eric so I'll have to give him the once-over.
-
Oh yeah, and I do actually have a Peachtree Nova and have compared to my Tranquility. I found their reproduction to be very similar, but the Tranquility removes a bit of graininess, improves on detail retrieval and spatial cues. They seem to be cut from the same cloth, relatively speaking, but Tranquility is better to my ears.
Some may not hear the difference, or the difference may not be justified given the extra expense. I have high ambitions for my system, so it's worth it for me. Preamp and amp upgrades are currently on the way. The Peachtree is a lot of bang for the buck, but as a package it's not going to take you to truly high end sound. And I also can't justify keeping it for only its preamp or DAC section. Although I'm considering keeping it for a second office system at the moment.
This was using the Peachtree as preamp for both DACs, swapping between internal USB input to the Peachtree and line level output from the Tranquility going into the Peachtree line level inputs for its preamp section.
-
Is the Peachtree tubed or SS? I like the idea of the tubed EE dac, trust the Wyred folks a lot, and know Eric. I'm concerned about a SS "sound".
-
Is the Peachtree tubed or SS? I like the idea of the tubed EE dac, trust the Wyred folks a lot, and know Eric. I'm concerned about a SS "sound".
The Peachtree Nova has a tubed preamp, solid state DAC and solid state amplifier.
Steve
-
And Peachtree has a standalone DAC in the pipeline as well, though I don't know the timeline for it. Not to mention that Eric has reported being hard at work on an SPDIF implementation of the Tranquility...
-
Hi guys,
Some great discourse here regarding the many facets of computer audio playback. In regard to solutions like the Peachtree and the Squeezeplay, we are a bit different. Our Tranquility solution was developed from the outset with a "sweat the details" approach. As to a couple examples of how we are different, the Tranquility's output capacitors are probably 20X the cost of those products caps and the gain stage's output jacks are probably 30X the cost. We wanted to offer you guys true statement level digital performance without the statement MSRP pricing. Thus, this is how we are different from multi-faceted digital products due to our desire to focus on getting the best sound quality as opposed to offering a multitude of feature sets.
With the above explanation of our Tranquility in mind, our DAC is meant to be used as a stand alone DAC. Your computer (hopefully a Mac Mini) will then will be acting as your high end transport connected via a USB cable. In our research, we tried all sorts of connection schemes and digital chipsets before finalizing our own solution incorporated into the Tranquility solution. We even built our own Sabre dac as a testbed to see if that solution prevailed. In actuality, it would be MUCH easier for us to sell and market a dac with the Sabre chipset due to all the heroic technical hype associated with it. Unfortunately, the end sonic results of all our exhaustive dac building, comparisons and circuits led us toward another digital chipset solution entirely. Should we have chosen a different path other than going for the absolute best sound? We strive to win comparisons based on our comparative sound quality. Crazy idea for sure :thumb:
Cheers,
Eric
-
Hey Eric, i was wondering if your still offering the discount for AC members??? :eyebrows:
-
Hi Eric,
Many thanks for that clarification. For those of us not using a computer as a transport, any update on the SPDIF implementation (or maybe an I2S???)? Or something with multiple input options? Don't get me wrong, I greatly admire your devotion to highest quality reproduction in your products. Maybe I need to factor in the cost of a Mac Mini when thinking about taking the plunge for a Tranquility...
And many thanks for mentioning your efforts with the Sabre DAC. I hope that at some point I am able to compare some of the highly praised Sabre implementations with DACs such as yours and the AVA Vision.
Exciting times to be in the market for a DAC to be sure...
-
To answer your questions:
Chris;
- Yes, we still offer the $200 off discount to all Audio Circle members. You guys have really supported our efforts and we seriously appreciate it!
Roscoeiii;
- Our next dac is still in the development stages. I can't put an actual firm timeline on the release date yet as we are working our R&D tails off to emulate the Tranquility's performance. This is not as easy as it sounds (no pun intended) as the cost of parts for a world class SPDIF solution that sounds as good will be more. Ever wondered why we started our digital offerings with a computer connected dac? Now you know. :eyebrows:
- As far as an I2S connection scheme, the inherent impedance matching and noise can get really complicated, really fast, with cables lengths at a short 12 inches. The best news here is that we are confident that we can achieve just as heroic sonic results with other more common connection schemes.
- Lastly, I know that some audiophiles may have not considered the cost factor of having to buy a Mac Mini to create a statement source. But, at $599, it's a serious bargain in many audiophile's minds. Great OS functionality, no viruses to worry about, no defrag and it looks GREAT sitting next to your other audiophile components on your audio rack! You get the cool remote control functionality to control your Mac too...aka ITouch, iPhone remote capability. IMHO the iPad used in conjunction with your Mac may just be the coolest audiophile remote control to ever come to our listening rooms :green:
Cheers,
Eric
-
Many thanks for the prompt reply. A very exciting DAC. TIme to explore Mac Mini options perhaps.
-Roscoe
-
Hi Eric,
I am excited about Tranquility dac and looking forward to audition. Based on your posts you were bias towards mac mini and iTune as a source. Is there any specific sonic advantages over other options such as Linux or Windows and foobar.
I have embedded device which runs linux os and has USB. I want to use this device as source. Will it sonically different form using mac mini with iTunes?
-
Well, I received my dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC yesterday and it has been burning in ever since. Early impressions include: :beer: :guitar: :drums: :duel: :rock: :dance: :banana piano: . I'll post a slightly more detailed review when I get back from my trip to Vegas this coming week. :thumb:
P.S. I'm also using the dB Labs usb cable.
Regards,
Pete
-
I read this thread simply for something to do one day. But after reading it I must say I am impressed.
I am not the type of guy who likes the typical audiophile stuff such as the this amplifier give you a view like in the front row seat rather than at the back and it has a slight midrange emphasis - you know the typical audiophile spiel. I am more of a hard nosed tech type. I like when a product is designed using listening tests but that it is also based on hard nosed engineering as well. Well for me this product seems to have that engineering stuff in spades.
I do have a question though. I see it is recommended an apple mini be used. I am not an apple type of guy - I prefer the windows stuff. On reason is apple Itunes does not support musepack which I use and believe is streets ahead of any other compression technology. Also the computer store I deal with and have built up trust in does not deal in apple. I can get cheaper computer gear elsewhere but although sometimes I think I will ditch them because of that I keep coming back to the good service they give me. I also prefer widows machines because you can get them standard with SSD drives that are quieter and make the machine boot faster. No defrag to worry about with them either. But aside for that I just feel more comfortable with the Windows stuff. The question is - it is really of that great an importance to use apple gear or can I stick with windows? I am scratching my head a bit for a technical point of view why it would make any difference at all.
Anyway mighty impressed with this product an will think very carefully about getting one down the track.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Eric,
I am excited about Tranquility dac and looking forward to audition. Based on your posts you were bias towards mac mini and iTune as a source. Is there any specific sonic advantages over other options such as Linux or Windows and foobar.
I have embedded device which runs linux os and has USB. I want to use this device as source. Will it sonically different form using mac mini with iTunes?
I did a post about this as well before I noticed yours. I want to know as well. For the life of me I cant see why. I know the Steve Nugent who makes a competing product has no preference either way. From what I can gather the main thing is to ensure it gives a bit perfect stream. You can do that from a number of players like Jriver or Foobar. I hope others can enlighten me.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Bill -
Boy, if it was only as easy creating a simple digital solution that provides a perfect bit stream. That's only the beginning to finding the real sonic magic. Our research has shown the digital is very fragile indeed. Music's delicate inner harmonics, lush high frequencies and heroic analog like sound staging can be easily truncated, smeared or lost altogether regardless if you have bit perfection. A good example that proves this point are the massive sonic differences with digital cables (on world class dacs mind you). These digital cables all provide the dac a "perfect bit stream", yet many can completely crush much of the sonic magic in their transfer of "perfect bits" as compared to the great sounding digital cables.
Now, let's segway into the better sounding computers such as the Mac Mini. There are a multitude of reasons why an Apple Mini could "sound better" than other PC solutions. Everything from the Mini's power supply on the power cord being connected a considerable distance from the Mini box (and the actual Intel processor inside) to the layout of the actual computer components that were possibly oriented in a lower noise configuration since the small physical size of the Mini itself would need more careful layout techniques of the various parts. So, it's starting to looks like the EMI and RF noise approximate to the Intel processor, within the computer itself could affect the overall sound of a typical desktop computer...negatively!
As far as a Windows based solution that can equal (or possibly surpass) an Mac Mini, it is possible in our minds. But, it's just anything from the norm with all the multitude of variants of the Microsoft based PC manufacturers and their various ever changing build methodologies. We suspect a top level computer guru, that knows all the "ins and outs" of building a custom PC, with a top flight motherboard, with top flight power supplies, low noise components throughout, and very careful analysis and custom configuration of the computer's Window programs. That may just get you to possibly match the sonic capability of a Mac Mini with a Windows based machine...perhaps...
Or you could just buy a Mini...no work or computer science classes needed :wink:
Cheers,
Eric - dB Audio Labs
-
Hi Eric and others reading this fascinating thread
Or you could just buy a Mini...no work or computer science classes needed :wink:
I guess the problem is I have a degree in math and computer science so it is quite easy for me to get suckered into going down this sort of path.
Anyway I have been doing a lot of internet searching etc etc to get to the bottom of the issues I mentioned. I have now been converted to the mac mini. The only minor sticking point is I can't yet determine if it handles muspack files. As a compressed format it is streets ahead of any other thing out there and it is really really hard at the extreme setting I use to tell it from the original. Some guy had 45,000 tracks and really high end equipment and could only tell the difference on maybe 3-4 tracks and even then the difference was far from objectionable. Indeed, and rather interestingly, in blind tests of high bit rate compressed audio the few guys that can tell the difference often gets it reversed - saying the compressed version is the uncompressed. As a good friend of mine expressed it - it seems to get rid of 'crap'. Although he cant tell the difference he feels it is in fact a bit clearer. Anyway bottom line here is I would really want to keep muspack support.
I found some mac players that support musepac such as VLC. Loaded the windows version on my windows machine. Worked great on some songs but wouldn't play others. The issue seems to be for some reason they nearly always have older codecs stored. Actually a post I did on the squeezebox forum to see if the squeezbox supported - it (they don't fully support btw even though they say they do) found out the latest musepack codec - version 8 - has a different calling interface that would mean significant changes to software - something people don't want to do for a format that not many people actually use. Such a pity of course because it really is a great format. On the positive side however I get the felling sbooth play for the mac does support it and have registered on their forum to get the lowdown. Keeping my fingers crossed on that one. If it does it will pretty much seal the deal for me using a mac mini.
Well enough ranting about musepack. One thing that interests me is I read where a 24/96 version is in development. That would really interest me because I like the idea of using a players digital remote but don't want to suffer any bit loss in doing so. The preamp I plan to get doesn't have a remote and I have bad arthritis so don't want to get up all the time to adjust volume. Any updates on that would be really appreciated.
And last but not least I just want to ensure a 240v version is available of guys like me is Aus.
Thanks
Bill
-
I have had my Mac Mini in the mix now for a couple of weeks. It replaced a first generation Macbook Pro running Snow Leopard.
I must say that the differences are aduible. Probably the biggest thing I noticed was a much lower noise floor. Black background and all that. This, of course, makes everything sound better as you can hear greater detail and more layers to the music. I hope to discover more benefits as time goes on; suffice it to say that it is a better than my old laptop. I control it via screen sharing with a laptop and an iPod touch.
-
I received Eric's tips for tweaking the Mac today and having followed his steps earlier this evening I must say I'm impressed with the results. I wasn't expecting such dramatic improvement. Thanks Eric. Wow.
-
I still don't understand why anyone would pay $1495. for a DAC that only does 16/44, only has a usb input, no remote, when the same money buys a Wyred 4 Sound balanced DAC-2 with:
Robust 35A Schottky bridge rectifiers (same as used in the STP-SE)
*88,000uF of filtering with Wyred 4 Sound low ESR "super-caps" (same as used in the STP-SE)
*upgraded VFD display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
*Remote controlled preamp capability
*Defeatable - 32 bit volume control
*HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger)
*1x AES/EBU input
*1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format)
*24-bit 192kHz Asynchronous USB input
* Proprietary drivers for 32/64 bit Windows XP, 7 and Mac OS 10.4, 10.5 ,10.6
-
I received Eric's tips for tweaking the Mac today and having followed his steps earlier this evening I must say I'm impressed with the results. I wasn't expecting such dramatic improvement. Thanks Eric. Wow.
Agreed. Frankly I was stunned by what these last three alterations to the MINI did to improve the overall sound of my set-up.
-
I still don't understand why anyone would pay $1495. for a DAC that only does 16/44, only has a usb input, no remote, when the same money buys a Wyred 4 Sound balanced DAC-2 with:
Robust 35A Schottky bridge rectifiers (same as used in the STP-SE)
*88,000uF of filtering with Wyred 4 Sound low ESR "super-caps" (same as used in the STP-SE)
*upgraded VFD display for input, sample rate, volume control, and configuration viewing
*Remote controlled preamp capability
*Defeatable - 32 bit volume control
*HT Bypass inputs (selectable via DC trigger)
*1x AES/EBU input
*1x Balanced I2S input via HDMI cable (not standard HDMI cable format)
*24-bit 192kHz Asynchronous USB input
* Proprietary drivers for 32/64 bit Windows XP, 7 and Mac OS 10.4, 10.5 ,10.6
Have you even listened to either of the units you are citing? Or does what it sounds like not enter into your decision making process?
-
Have you even listened to either of the units you are citing? Or does what it sounds like not enter into your decision making process?
I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there. At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing. Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads. It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better. That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.
-
I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there. At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing. Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads. It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better. That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.
Pete,
That makes it sound as though these "tweaks" available to upgrade the sound detract from the value of the proposition. Perhaps it would be more useful to take the following attitude: as an AC member, one can buy a Tranquility DAC for $1300, download Foobar for free, use some sort of ASIO driver and employ any old USB cable. Your music may or may not sound better than through the SB or the WFS DAC - only you can tell. The upgraded USB cable, the Mac Mini, an upgraded power cord, a whole new approach to power filtration, a custom platform, magical stones or a velour smoking jacket for the DAC can be purchased afterwards to enhance the sound as you desire.
You don't HAVE to buy into all the tweaking crap to enjoy a product.
And if you're really interested in how it sounds (without a Mac Mini - mine is a windows household as well), you can always borrow mine for a weekend.
Chad
-
I believe he has a legitimate value prop question there. At this point it is a $2000+- product if a Mac is required to make it sing. Someone with a Windows machine, of which I have 5 in the house, who can use an existing SB and associated software with existing FLAC files and playlists and achieve similar results is scratching their heads. It's not practical, from an investment in time and money, to have to purchase those other pieces (MAC and monitor adapters) of equipment and change your file system (iTunes or whatever it is) just to see if it sounds significantly better. That, I believe, is creating a dilemma for some of us.
With all due respect I think we're talking about two different things.
1) The value of the Tranquility compared to the value of other DAC's.
2) The question of which computer system produces better sounding music, Mac (in this case a Mac Mini) or PC.
Regarding #1 - I don't think it's very fair to make ANY claim about it, good or bad, without ever even hearing it.
Regarding #2 - I don't think the claim has ever been made that the ONLY way to get excellent sound quality from this DAC is with a Mac Mini. It has been suggested however, that to get the BEST sound one should use a Mac Mini vs. a PC. But I have seen that claim made from both camps regardless of which DAC is being used.
From my own personal experience, I have used this DAC with a dedicated PC and never once thought, "Jeepers, this sounds like crap. I need to get a Mac." Much to the contrary, a PC is what was used through the process of my discovering what an excellent product the Tranquility is in the first place. It was only "suggested" to me that a Mac Mini would give me even better sound for a number of reasons that have everything to do with computing issues and nothing to do with the DAC itself. Computer audio is a new thing for me and I want it to sound the best it can within the parameters of what I can afford. It was important enough for me to try the Mac Mini, the first Mac for me too in a house full of PC's. Now that I've lived with the Mac Mini in my system for awhile it is my opinion that it DOES sound better than the PC rig i was using. But even at that I never did think the PC sounded BAD. I just think this sounds better. But that has nothing to do with the DAC.
Just my 2 cents.
-
With all due respect I think we're talking about two different things.
1) The value of the Tranquility compared to the value of other DAC's.
2) The question of which computer system produces better sounding music, Mac (in this case a Mac Mini) or PC.
Regarding #1 - I don't think it's very fair to make ANY claim about it, good or bad, without ever even hearing it.
Regarding #2 - I don't think the claim has ever been made that the ONLY way to get excellent sound quality from this DAC is with a Mac Mini. It has been suggested however, that to get the BEST sound one should use a Mac Mini vs. a PC. But I have seen that claim made from both camps regardless of which DAC is being used.
From my own personal experience, I have used this DAC with a dedicated PC and never once thought, "Jeepers, this sounds like crap. I need to get a Mac." Much to the contrary, a PC is what was used through the process of my discovering what an excellent product the Tranquility is in the first place. It was only "suggested" to me that a Mac Mini would give me even better sound for a number of reasons that have everything to do with computing issues and nothing to do with the DAC itself. Computer audio is a new thing for me and I want it to sound the best it can within the parameters of what I can afford. It was important enough for me to try the Mac Mini, the first Mac for me too in a house full of PC's. Now that I've lived with the Mac Mini in my system for awhile it is my opinion that it DOES sound better than the PC rig i was using. But even at that I never did think the PC sounded BAD. I just think this sounds better. But that has nothing to do with the DAC.
Just my 2 cents.
Nicely stated. I have always been a MAC user, and so, getting a MINI was no big deal. If I had a house full of PC's I would think twice about converting to MAC, but that should not stop someone from giving this DAC a try. Value is as much a matter of perception as anything else in this hobby. Some people think their 10K amp, which takes them to audio heaven, is a bargain.
-
timztunz nailed the whole thing.
I have been a PC guy for years too and the Mac Mini that I purchased was a first for me. The cool thing was that I sold my CEC transport for $450 and bought the Mac Mini with cordless mouse and key board for $425. Talk about stepping up in performance... :thumb:
-
From a sales point of view it probably would've been better if the whole Mini/PC tweek issue wasn't raised. Most audiophiles are interested in the best sound at the the best price. Now if the issue is that all dacs sound better if they're fed bits from a Mini/Mac computer then it's a good point but if it's the case that this particular dac is optimized with a Mini then that's a legitimate issue.
So if you buy the Tranquility and you have a PC based system your audio nervosa will be in the background and you'll be always wondering if you should blow more $$s on a Mini to cure the itch. Some can live with that itch and some can't. Should the bucks for the Mini be added when considering the purchase of this dac? :dunno:
- Roy
-
The things that make the Mac Mini sound better as a server than other computers including other types of Mac's is not related to the Tranquility DAC or any other DAC.
-
The things that make the Mac Mini sound better as a server than other computers including other types of Mac's is not related to the Tranquility DAC or any other DAC.
So does this mean that all dacs will sound better with the Mini or could it be related to what chip is used in the dac and how jitter is handled?
-Roy
-
So does this mean that all dacs will sound better with the Mini or could it be related to what chip is used in the dac and how jitter is handled?
There are so many other things so far and above the chip being used that it is almost not even a consideration.
Here is what I know from experience in my own system using a Mac Mini.
Plugging the Mac Mini into my Uber Buss improved the sound (a little).
Going to an adapter that allowed me to put a real power cable on the Mac Mini's power supply improved the sound (a little).
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
Going to a solid state hard drive improved the sound (noticeably).
Going to an external hard drive improved the sound (very noticeably).
Various USB cables hurt or improved the sound (significantly).
Going to a different software and in my case going from iTunes to "Play" made an improvement (considerably).
Going from Tiger operating system to Snow Leopard made an improvement (very noticeable).
You start adding all this stuff up and the difference is even greater than the differences in most DAC's. All this stuff together was HUGE!
-
Id be interested in listening to this DAC. Can it be put on an East Coast tour? Id like to hear it in my system and Im sure we could get a nice group of Long Island/NY folks to join in the tour.
Thanks.
Mike
-
There is always the 30 day trial with only a $75 restocking fee...
-
There are so many other things so far and above the chip being used that it is almost not even a consideration.
Here is what I know from experience in my own system using a Mac Mini.
Plugging the Mac Mini into my Uber Buss improved the sound (a little).
Going to an adapter that allowed me to put a real power cable on the Mac Mini's power supply improved the sound (a little).
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
Going to a solid state hard drive improved the sound (noticeably).
Going to an external hard drive improved the sound (very noticeably).
Various USB cables hurt or improved the sound (significantly).
Going to a different software and in my case going from iTunes to "Play" made an improvement (considerably).
Going from Tiger operating system to Snow Leopard made an improvement (very noticeable).
You start adding all this stuff up and the difference is even greater than the differences in most DAC's. All this stuff together was HUGE!
I think Danny's long list of improvements from tweaking his Mac Mini shows how unlikely it is that there will ever be any consensus on what computing approach will sound best. There are just so many dimensions to these machines that can be altered, and many of those change almost on a daily basis due to development of new software, new operating systems and new hardware.
I suspect (and it's only a suspicion) that if I took a reasonably efficient windows machine with a reasonably well laid-out circuit board, experimented using SSDs and external drives, spent days experimenting with USB cables, power cables, power filtration etc, judiciously switched off various Windows functions and tried all sorts of music software (such as the allegedly superior sounding WinAspi player), I could end up with a transport that sounds just as good as Danny's tweaked Mac Mini. Someone who knew what he was doing could also probably manage this with a teeny weeny, application-specific linux server too.
The big advantage of the Mac Mini seems to be that, right now, it is a known quantity, and there seems some agreement about various tweaks that deliver performance improvements. The same consensus will be hard to reach with windows and linux boxes, since there is such a variety of them.
Chad
-
There are so many other things so far and above the chip being used that it is almost not even a consideration.
Here is what I know from experience in my own system using a Mac Mini.
Plugging the Mac Mini into my Uber Buss improved the sound (a little).
Going to an adapter that allowed me to put a real power cable on the Mac Mini's power supply improved the sound (a little).
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
Going to a solid state hard drive improved the sound (noticeably).
Going to an external hard drive improved the sound (very noticeably).
Various USB cables hurt or improved the sound (significantly).
Going to a different software and in my case going from iTunes to "Play" made an improvement (considerably).
Going from Tiger operating system to Snow Leopard made an improvement (very noticeable).
You start adding all this stuff up and the difference is even greater than the differences in most DAC's. All this stuff together was HUGE!
I hate to derail this thread even more than it has been derailed, but you're talking about adding another $500 or more in tweaks to something that's already $500 (or more). So, not only do you have to buy the Mac Mini, but then you have to tweak it. And, that's $1,000 on top of a DAC that's 1,500. You're up to $2,500, which I admit isn't a bad price, but it seems like a ton of work to just play music.
-
There seems to be a growing tendency to cast a negative light on all of these Mac Mini tweaks being discussed. IMO the Mac Mini doesn't HAVE to be tweaked. Nor does a room HAVE to get acoustic treatments to sound better. Neither does a vinyl rig HAVE to get all of the suspension and other tweaks that make it sound better. A person doesn't HAVE to do anything to their vehicle to improve performance. None of things HAVE to be done. We just do them in an attempt to make things better. I don't see the Mac tweaks to be any different.
-
All of the Mac Mini related upgrades have the advantage that they can be done incrementally. And many thanks to Danny for letting us know his experience with the degree of improvement that each made. As always in the hobby, it is possible to improve on one's equipment via tweaks of various degrees of effectiveness. And some may be content with stock and leave it that way...
-
There is always the 30 day trial with only a $75 restocking fee...
Good point. The Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 has a 15% restocking fee.
-
I eagerly await comparisons between the W4S and dB. Of course the W4S features may be a selling point for many. But if the dB meets one's connectivity needs, then it will be interesting to see how they stack up via each units USB input...
-
Good point. The Wyred 4 Sound DAC2 has a 15% restocking fee.
Whats the point?
-
Whats the point?
That the restocking fee with the Tranquility is $75 where it would be $225 with the Wyred at 15%.
-
Well said, Chad. There are so many variations of PCs and user's levels of savvy and experience with them that it would be nearly impossible to make a blanket statement of which machine is "best".
Windows guys, have you virtualized or stripped down your O? Can you even do that on a Mac (mini or otherwise)? Have you shutdown all unnecessary I/O devices (I use a local usb hard drive so have my wireless and ethernet adaptors turned off completely, for example.) The questions like this can go on and on, and it takes a lot of tinkering to hit upon just the right combination, but that applies to any machine.
If anybody is trying to tell me that Apple designed the mini to be a super usb digital audio playback computer, I got news for you, they don't work that way at Apple. Nor at Microsoft. If it happened, it was more or less totally an accident, and that same accident can probably be found in some windows boxes too, and certainly in the slick little Alix single-board linux box with no keyboard, video, or hard drive chips and subsystems to contaminate things.
I've been using a first generation Asus Eee box pc with a relative low performance graphics subsystem, but with an upgraded outboard power supply, lots of software tweaks, and it has been used with many usb dacs and is superb with all of them. I'm sure things will get even better when iI move to a linear ps and install an SSD.
That said, and back to the original point that timmond pointed out, the Eee box as it came sounded fine without any of this stuff, except on dacs where the power supply came through the usb port, and then the noise of the original, horrible switching psu was very audible.
The lesson: try your dac with whatever you have, and if you're neurotic about it, you can start tweaking as your budget and experience dictate. As for me, my next experiment will be the Alix board running Voyage linux and the MPD software. Not sure if I'll grab files from a local, attached usb drive or from my NAS over the network, but I'm sure I'll try both at some point.
-- Jim
-
As this PC-Mac discussion is gathering steam in a dB DAC review thread, I'm thinking it might be better to move this discussion to its own thread (or a preexisting thread on this topic?). We're getting pretty OT, and some folks who may be interested in the topic may be missing out because they aren't interested in the dB DAC...
-
I eagerly await comparisons between the W4S and dB. Of course the W4S features may be a selling point for many. But if the dB meets one's connectivity needs, then it will be interesting to see how they stack up via each units USB input...
Exactly. I really am impressed with what people say about the Tranquility DAC. But the more I think about it the more I like W4S DAC2. It can be used as a pre amp and has a home theater bypass mode - things that would be really great in my system. And not having to buy a pre amp will save money as well. In fact the cost of the DAC2 is about the same here in Aus as the preamp I was looking at (the Busrson pre amp). From my perspective the sound quality of the tranquility needs pot be a lot better to outweigh the cons. While of course no one can really comment yet I suspect the sound difference will be a really really close thing and although the tranquility dac may win out for me the other features make the W4S a no brainer.
Just a question to Danny. When you say shut down all other operating systems exactly what do you mean? Windows is an operating system, MAC OS is an operating system and while it is technically possible to run multiple operating systems simultaneously by using products like VM-ware it is not something that most do. Do you really mean background applications?
The other thing is that the Mac mini is a windows compatible hardware platform. You can get rid of the Mac-os if you wish and run it as a windows machine if you like. Indeed using boot-camp you can switch between the two quite easily and using VM-ware you can even run windows programs inside the mac. Plenty of stuff you can check out to see exactly what the effects on sonics are.
Thanks
Bill
-
Do you really mean background applications?
Yes, that is what I meant.
-
Hi Guys,
Some considerations I would like to respond regarding some recent posts:
- Our Tranquility DAC works with any computer solution not just a Mac Mini. We recommend the Mac Mini for those who are looking for true world class sound that is only typical of statement dacs costing upward of $10K...and even more. For those on a budget, or those who don't really care about achieving statement level sonic performance, they could just use their own computer instead. We seriously recommend the Mac Mini solution because for $599 your digital transport goes straight to the head of the World Class line from your source! Where else in audio do you go to go to the very top for this amount of money spent on an audio purchase?
- All USB connected dacs will benefit with a properly configured computer such as the Mac Mini with a really good high end USB cable, not just our Tranquility dac in particular. For example: At Danny's recent shootout between our Tranquility DAC, an Ayre QB-9 and the PS Audio Perfect stack; we found that the PS DAC actually sounded better with the Mac Mini than the PS transport! (I know, I know PS audio owners, it's hard for you to believe, I was very surprised). Please realize though that this was not just a basic Mini as a computer transport. It had 4 gigs of memory, a solid state internal hard drive, an external firewire hard drive and three of the memory resident apps were turned off. Also, it was conneceted via our own Essential USB cable. I didn't actually expect the Mini to outperform the PS transport with its companion PS DAC. It wasn't my idea to even try this experiment! In retrospect though, it does makes some sense. When a computer like the Mini is tricked out correctly, I've seen it sonically outperform one of the most expensive CD transports made. In January, this Mini sonically prevailed over an owner's Uber expensive Esoteric Audio transport. Welcome to the age where computers may be ruling the world of audio...at least when it comes to digital music sources for D/A converters. :wink:
- In regard to some of "the math" posted here about our digital solution. Please be aware that we sell this dac to members of this forum for $1295 and not the $1500 price as stated by others. Additionally, we are intent on giving you guys the BEST sound for your money, not a laundry list of features OR buzz worded tech OR a multitude of digital connections instead. Many here may not realize that multiple digital inputs on a dac design will take the overall sound quality down a couple notches. Ever wondered why our Tranquility DAC only has one digital input? Now you know. Of course, for some, achieving the absolute best sound quality isn't their top priorty. We have no issue with that mindset as ours is a bit purist comparatively.
Our position with dB Audio Labs products is plain and simple. We aim to give you guys the sound quality of digital solutions that would otherwise cost you a fortune. Unlike other sub $5K offerings, we don't prescribe to using $2.49 RCA jacks or op amps or other typical short cuts that affect the overall true sonic capabilities. And dB Audio Labs products are NOT made in China! Every single facet of our Tranquility DAC was developed with true double blind testing. Most importantly, we continue to prove what we've achieved sonically like the most recent comparative between the Ayre QB-9 and PS Audio perfect stack (see GR Research's forum for the reviewer's notes and posts). There will also be an upcoming post on Audiogon of a direct comparison between our Tranquility DAC / Mini / Essential USB cable solution and the highly touted $15,000 Vitus CD player. :thumb:
May the best sound win your heart! :green: :green: :green:
Cheers,
Eric - dB Audio Labs
-
Our Tranquility DAC works with any computer solution not just a Mac Mini. We recommend the Mac Mini for those who are looking for true world class sound that is only typical of statement dacs costing upward of $10K...and even more. For those on a budget, or those who don't really care about achieving statement level sonic performance, they could just use their own computer instead. We seriously recommend the Mac Mini solution because for $599 your digital transport goes straight to the head of the World Class line from your source! Where else in audio do you go to go to the very top for this amount of money spent on an audio purchase?
Yes - as mentioned previously you converted me.
In regard to some of "the math" posted here about our digital solution. Please be aware that we sell this dac to members of this forum for $1295 and not the $1500 price as stated by others. Additionally, we are intent on giving you guys the BEST sound for your money, not a laundry list of features OR buzz worded tech OR a multitude of digital connections instead. Many here may not realize that multiple digital inputs on a dac design will take the overall sound quality down a couple notches. Ever wondered why our Tranquility DAC only has one digital input? Now you know. Of course, for some, achieving the absolute best sound quality isn't their top priorty. We have no issue with that mindset as ours is a bit purist comparatively.
Point taken. But as a guy that is rebuilding his setup from scratch financial considerations such as a dac with volume control that can feed directly into amps and with home theater pass though is something I need to take seriously when the cost of doing that is the same as getting a decent pre amp alone. Another option is to get an amp with a built in pre amp and there are some ones around that appeal. But the amp I am really interested in (a Soraya) is not offered like that. I suspect you are correct - your dac may be the better choice. Its all part of the decision making process.
Our position with dB Audio Labs products is plain and simple. We aim to give you guys the sound quality of digital solutions that would otherwise cost you a fortune. Unlike other sub $5K offerings, we don't prescribe to using $2.49 RCA jacks or op amps or other typical short cuts that affect the overall true sonic capabilities. And dB Audio Labs products are NOT made in China! Every single facet of our Tranquility DAC was developed with true double blind testing. Most importantly, we continue to prove what we've achieved sonically like the most recent comparative between the Ayre QB-9 and PS Audio perfect stack (see GR Research's forum for the reviewer's notes and posts). There will also be an upcoming post on Audiogon of a direct comparison between our Tranquility DAC / Mini / Essential USB cable solution and the highly touted $15,000 Vitus CD player. :thumb:
Now you have touched something very dear to me. The issue of double blind listening tests. We often hear the most god awful gush from audio reviewers (and in all honesty I must say that is definitely NOT the norm around here - Danny's DAC shootout review was great IMHO) but seldom do we hear them subjected to a double blind test. I know from personal experience how the guff touted by some salesmen in HI FI stores melts right away when subjected to that. Time and time again it has bought supposed claims to its knees. Even reviewers like John Atkinson at Stereophile have had to resort to touchy feely stuff such as product mystique etc to justify much more expensive products that sound absolutely identical in a blind listening test. He relates a story of how he sold a much more expensive amp to buy a cheaper one after he could not detect any difference in a blind listening test. But he was dissatisfied with it because as he said the magic was gone. Sure it sounded exactly the same but it didn't evoke the same type of enjoyment.
The fact you used it to design your amp really really tempts me to go down a different path than I planned. I will need to give this a lot of thought.
To help me in that some blind listening tests with this DAC and others like the W4S would be really helpful. But I am not immune to the mystique thing myself either - the fact you use double blind listening tests is itself an attraction and could sway me over other considerations.
Thanks
Bill
-
But as a guy that is rebuilding his setup from scratch financial considerations such as a dac with volume control that can feed directly into amps and with home theater pass though is something I need to take seriously when the cost of doing that is the same as getting a decent pre amp alone. Another option is to get an amp with a built in pre amp and there are some ones around that appeal. But the amp I am really interested in (a Soraya) is not offered like that. I suspect you are correct - your dac may be the better choice. Its all part of the decision making process.
bill, (and all), sorry if this is a bit off topic, but, imho, the single most important piece of electronics in a system is the preamp - do not skimp here. if you can blow a wad on only one single piece of gear and have to cut corners elsewhere, blow it on your preamp, do not cut corners here. even if your source has a wolume pot, it's gonna sound better when run thru a proper quality active line stage. imo, of course!
ymmv,
doug s.
-
bill, (and all), sorry if this is a bit off topic, but, imho, the single most important piece of electronics in a system is the preamp - do not skimp here. if you can blow a wad on only one single piece of gear and have to cut corners elsewhere, blow it on your preamp, do not cut corners here. even if your source has a wolume pot, it's gonna sound better when run thru a proper quality active line stage. imo, of course!
Thanks for the tip. As always such things are much appreciated. But a while back I did hear a squeezebbox direct connected to an amp and was very impressed - its digital volume control was utterly transparent. However I do agree an active line stage is of value and am seriously considering a Burson buffer:
http://bursonaudio.com/burson_buffer_160.htm
Hugh Dean, the maker of the Soraya I am interested in, is very impressed with the Burson and his amp.
I was considering their full blown pre:
http://bursonaudio.com/Burson_pre160.htm
However I find myself totally unable to justify the approx $1700 it costs over a digital volume control which I was so impressed with. In the context of the tranquility DAC that's why I can see myself waiting until they release their 24 bit model. I can use the digital volume control in the computer without loosing any resolution.
The other option is to ditch the Soraya and get a Burson integrated amp. I am loathe to do this however as, just like the tranquility dac, I am very impressed with how its maker developed the product. I was just speaking to a friend over the phone about this stuff and we both agreed that techy nerd types like us are often drawn to the technicalities of a product rather than in Hi FI what they say you should do - sit down and listen. I have written elsewhere I am not entirely happy with that approach as you can easily be fooled. Its part of the reason for me blind listening trests are a big plus. I have great faith in technically knowledgeable designer/engineers who use it.
Thanks
Bill
-
Another option to maximize a Mac Mini set-up is to power the Mini and even an external hard drive with a good linear power supply.
Chris H.
-
Another option to maximize a Mac Mini set-up is to power the Mini and even an external hard drive with a good linear power supply.
Chris H.
Yes indeed. I have bad experiences with switching powers supplies anywhere near audio equipment. It does not matter what I do unless it is moved a good distance away I always seem to get some kind of hash output. I don't even like it when it is a distance away - I suspect even though you cant hear it specifically any more there may be a bit of a residual that interferes with good reproduction. Anyway that is an option I will get somewhere down the line I am sure.
Thanks
Bill
-
Another option to maximize a Mac Mini set-up is to power the Mini and even an external hard drive with a good linear power supply.
Chris H.
Don't you mean that this is an option that will improve performance on any computer/server? I'm not looking to be an asshole or anything, but there's really nothing special about the Mac Mini in this respect.
Has anybody talked to Vinnie about a Black Lightning battery supply for their server (mac Mini or otherwise)?
Chad
-
Bhobba,
That digital volume control on the squeezebox is one that drops bits from the audio data, FYI,.
-- Jim
-
Why not just use quite battery power for your computer based system? Use your laptop unplugged! :D Nice and simple, eh?
-Roy
-
ChadH:
I see you had a Audio Sector USB DAC in your gallery. Could you give a brief comparison between that and the Tranquility?
Thanks in advance.
-
ChadH:
I see you had a Audio Sector USB DAC in your gallery. Could you give a brief comparison between that and the Tranquility?
Thanks in advance.
Hopefully, I'll be able to do so sometime soon. But my AS DAC has been out of commission for a while, and I've been too lazy to sent it off to Peter to get it fixed. As soon as it happens, I'll let you know what I think.
Chad
-
Why not just use quite battery power for your computer based system? Use your laptop unplugged! :D Nice and simple, eh?
-Roy
I've read several threads refering to the Mini Mac as state of the art for digital playback. When I sold my Wadia CDP I purchased a Macbook (and RWA Isabella linestage/dac) assuming the Macbook was the way to go. Does a Mini Mac streaming bits really sound better than a Macbook?
-
Hopefully, I'll be able to do so sometime soon. But my AS DAC has been out of commission for a while, and I've been too lazy to sent it off to Peter to get it fixed. As soon as it happens, I'll let you know what I think.
Chad
Just to let you know I had sent my dac back to Peter for a repair as I fried a chip when I incorrectly wired a DIY powercord. Peter's turnaround time was 24 hrs and only charged me for the chip. Excellent customer service.
-
Hey guys, can we keep this thread on track and not meander about other dac's, please? If you feel the need to discuss off topic things start a new thread or take it private. Sorry if I sound like a buzz kill.
Thanks,
Tom
-
That digital volume control on the squeezebox is one that drops bits from the audio data, FYI,.
Not so sure about that. My understanding is it maintains "bit perfect" output until you drop below 34-35 db for a 16 bit source. Anyway its utterly transparent to my ears.
Thanks
Bill
-
Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that the Tranquility beat their Havana DAC. I've pm'd the poster asking what kinds of tubes/mods he was using on the Havana, but meanwhile am wondering if anybody else has heard both DACs, and if so what tubes/mods were they using on the Havana? (as well as which input - I've heard that coax sounds much better on the Havana than USB, and would be especially interested in hearing about Havana via coax vs Tranquility via USB, given all the talk about coax and jitter). Basically, I'm trying to decide whether to get the Tranquility or a modded Havana with better output caps (probably the Mundorfs that the Tranquility uses), transformer shielding and vibration control, premium tubes, etc.
-
I am getting on this track and starting to assemble stuff
What is the minimum Mac Mini processor that will work in this config?
Jeff
-
I had the Havana before buying the Tranquility. My Havana was stock though I did have the Bel Canto usb LINK. The dB Tranquility, in my experience, offers a much more involving musical presentation. While I liked the Havana very much I always felt that I was missing something, that something wasn't coming through. So far that hasn't been my experience with the Tranquility.
-
I had the Havana before buying the Tranquility. My Havana was stock though I did have the Bel Canto usb LINK. The dB Tranquility, in my experience, offers a much more involving musical presentation. While I liked the Havana very much I always felt that I was missing something, that something wasn't coming through. So far that hasn't been my experience with the Tranquility.
Were you using the Havana as a USB DAC cuz if you were, I can understand why the Tranquility would outperform it. The Havana being a NOS Dac that uses older chips has nothing in it to combat jitter like the new generation of USB Dacs now have. In the right system, the Havana has the potential to shine bright IMHO,,, but not as a USB DAC, again IMHO. :D
Cheers,
Robin
-
I am getting on this track and starting to assemble stuff
What is the minimum Mac Mini processor that will work in this config?
Jeff
As long you have one of the Intel Core 2 Duo processors in your Mini you should be fine, but I would double-check with Eric to be sure :D
-
The Tranquility owners seem to have been a little quiet lately. Anybody care to give an update on how things are sounding?
-
The Tranquility owners seem to have been a little quiet lately. Anybody care to give an update on how things are sounding?
I can't speak for the others but I'm just too busy enjoying the shockingly good audio coming out of this Mac Mini and Tranquility combination.
-
I can't speak for the others but I'm just too busy enjoying the shockingly good audio coming out of this Mac Mini and Tranquility combination.
Ditto. The latest set of system tweaks to the MINI have really made a positive difference. Just enjoying the music....
-
The Tranquility owners seem to have been a little quiet lately. Anybody care to give an update on how things are sounding?
Well, here's the scoop with me.
To be honest, everything hasn't been perfect in Tranquility DAC land with me. I've had some lingering problems with getting the DAC working properly in my system.
At first I thought this was a problem with the DAC itself. The good news is that the guys who stand behind this product were EXTREMELY happy to do anything they could to ensure that I had a DAC that worked properly, and was set up properly. In fact, right now I have a second Tranquility DAC sitting at my place that they sent to let me check out.
It turns out that my biggest issue lay in how all of my components worked together. The Tranquility DAC puts out a much stronger signal than either of the other sources I have on hand, and my pre-amp (equipped with 6SL7 tubes) has pretty serious input sensitivity. So, it seems that the Tranquility DAC was driving my pre-amp to clipping a great deal of the time.
Well, eventually we hit upon a sensible solution. My pre-amp can make use of a wide range of tubes, so I swapped out the high-gain 6SL7 tubes for the much lower gain 6SN7 tubes, and now everything is great.
I find it interesting, though, that many of the DACs characteristics were able to shine through even while I had this serious synergy problem. Now that the clipping issue is in my past, I'm able really to appreciate those elements of the presentation that jumped out at me before. The whole presentation of the music is just so much richer right now. Listening is almost a tactile experience. Depth of the soundstage is greatly increased, and music is truly enveloping.
Right now I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's The Ragpicker's Dream. As it happens, I went to hear Knopfler live two nights ago as well. So many of the things that I really appreciated at the concert (in the layering of the instrumentation, how sounds from various instruments at times would jump out almost violently from the performance, and at other times would sneak in to my consciousness so much more languidly) are present in my living room now. I guess this has something to do with "dynamics", but the three dimensionality of the presentation is also a big factor. And all of this is accomplished with improved tone as well. The other night, Knopfler played about 10 different guitars through the course of a two hour concert, often switching guitars in the middle of songs. The choice of guitar for the appropriate tone at the appropriate time was obviously a big deal for him. And right now I'm really hearing those sorts of differences in tone. I mean, Knopfler's playing always sounded great on my system (I think it would sound great on a bose system) - but to feel like I can tell which of his guitars he's using at any given time without any visual cues is kind of surprising.
Anyway, my humble system has never sounded so good. I'm very happy. I don't have a huge universe of alternatives with which to compare this DAC, but it's made a big difference in my system. Especially now that its playing nicely with the rest of my system.
Chad
-
Well, here's the scoop with me.
Right now I'm listening to Mark Knopfler's The Ragpicker's Dream. As it happens, I went to hear Knopfler live two nights ago as well. So many of the things that I really appreciated at the concert (in the layering of the instrumentation, how sounds from various instruments at times would jump out almost violently from the performance, and at other times would sneak in to my consciousness so much more languidly) are present in my living room now. I guess this has something to do with "dynamics", but the three dimensionality of the presentation is also a big factor. And all of this is accomplished with improved tone as well. The other night, Knopfler played about 10 different guitars through the course of a two hour concert, often switching guitars in the middle of songs. The choice of guitar for the appropriate tone at the appropriate time was obviously a big deal for him. And right now I'm really hearing those sorts of differences in tone. I mean, Knopfler's playing always sounded great on my system (I think it would sound great on a bose system) - but to feel like I can tell which of his guitars he's using at any given time without any visual cues is kind of surprising.
Anyway, my humble system has never sounded so good. I'm very happy. I don't have a huge universe of alternatives with which to compare this DAC, but it's made a big difference in my system. Especially now that its playing nicely with the rest of my system.
Chad
A friend of mine attended the show in Detroit on Tuesday and said it was one of the best live shows he has seen in a long time. It is great that you can hear, and got to see, the differences in guitars! :thumb:
Correction: Ann Arbor not Detroit
-
I friend of mine attended the show in Detroit on Tuesday and said it was one of the best live shows he has seen in a long time. It is great that you can hear, and got to see, the differences in guitars! :thumb:
Tuesday night the show was in Ann Arbor - that's the show I saw. And it really was fantastic. Of course, I'm biased. But I love Knopfler's music so much, I was a little afraid the show couldn't live up to my expectations. Instead, it far exceeded them.
It was really wild to hear him wailing away on a song like Telegraph Road, while backed by guys playing mandolin and wooden flute. But it was just so RIGHT!
Now I get to relive the experience listening to his catalog through my Tranquility DAC-powered system.
Chad
-
Thanks to all for the comments thus far! Are there any owners with solid-state amps who could comment on the the sound of the Tranquility as relates to "musicality" - whether the sound is "involving" and tube-like to any degree (could you mistake the sound for a tube component?), and how it performs on timing, basically its overall ability to groove and rock, draw the listener in, convey emotion, etc?
-
Well, Coverto...
I can only tell you that this unit makes my music "engaging". Sometimes I just go to put something on in the background, and most of the time I can't make myself get up to go to bed. It's an amazing piece of gear. I don't relate to the other terms you used.
-Tony
-
Thanks Tony - that is essentially the information I was looking for. With all those other terms, I'm asking: will it force me to put down my book, jump up on the sofa and start playing air guitar? Sounds like the answer is probably yes.
-
Coverto,
You left out a step... stripping down to your skibbies. :D
-- Jim
-
Thanks Tony - that is essentially the information I was looking for. With all those other terms, I'm asking: will it force me to put down my book, jump up on the sofa and start playing air guitar? Sounds like the answer is probably yes.
Coverto,
Here's a reply from Ridge Street Audio in response to someone who asked a similar type of question:
Quote from: gprro on Yesterday at 12:22 AM
...The only slight shortcoming I've read or heard about the Nico is slight dynamic compression or restiction. I'm really curious if the tranquility is better in that area, or if it also gives up a little dynamic pop to the best digital sources. Dynamics are high on my list, as well as tone, weight, detail, air, staging... haha, kind of want it all.
Hey gprro.
I've not had any experience with the Nico but, still, maybe I can help here.
To my ears the Tranquility is, regardless of cost, one of the most dynamic DACs I've heard. Honestly, I've heard equal but I don't believe I've heard better. IMO that's saying a lot for any digital.
I judge dynamics by two criteria: Ability to startle (with large transients) and how deep I can hear into the recording (small, low level transients)
Couple of pieces of music come to mind that I use as a reference to judge this....
Having become familiar with the music and even though I know it's coming, it still startles or surprises me:
Gregorio Paniagua's "La Folia" on the Harmonia Mundi label, track 7 "Nordica et desolata / Aurea mediocritas" @ 3:59. The slap here should absolutely POP! It's subtle but there should be plenty of low end content here too.
"Further Attempts" on the MA Recordings label, track 4 "Before... After". The whole song. This is an acoustic recording and there's things happening between the musicians that are way down in the mix. Some of these things are so subtle that they almost seem like a "suggestion" while other parts of the song set up a sense of anticipation. This is a great example of low level dynamics. Lesser front ends simply miss the nuances that happen here.
Dom Um Romao's "Saudades" on the Water Lilly Acoustics label, track 4 "Lynces B". The whole song. Another acoustic recording with lots of ear candy. Dynamics play a big part in portraying the acoustic venue and the perspective of how everything relates properly. Hard to get right - the Tranquility is exceptional here.
For reference, here's RSAD's System description: RSAD Reference System
Bottom line I suppose: Within up to around $6000.00, RSAD could use any DAC I want for product development or just enjoying music with in the reference system here. I'm very content with the Tranquility.
So, hope that points in a good direction for you gprro.
Cheers,
Roger.
Ridge Street Audio.
-
Thanks Mick - that is, indeed, very interesting testimony. And Jim - you just might be right about the skibbies!
I was also wondering if anybody could comment on how the Tranquility performs with older recordings - old, scratchy transfers of jazz and blues from the 30s and 40s, for instance? I find that some DACs tend to emphasize the annoying pops and surface noise, while others get past it.
I'm likewise interested whether any folks could talk about what kind of vinyl rig they're using and how it compares to the Tranquility.
-
I'm likewise interested whether any folks could talk about what kind of vinyl rig they're using and how it compares to the Tranquility.
x2
-
Guys:
Have any owners of the Tranquility DAC downloaded any hirez music and played it back through the DAC? I am interested to know if you could hear the improvement in sound from the hirez files that you normally experience when played back through a DAC designed to handle the higher bit rates?
I have not read through all of the pages of this thread and apologize if this has previously been covered. I would also be interested to know if the Tranquility is your first stand alone DAC or what DAC you replaced or compared it to when you decided to keep it?
Thanks,
Ken
-
I've recently started to download some Hi-Res files from both the Linn and HDTracks sites. The first track I listened to was from Diana Krall's QUIET NIGHTS and I was struck with how holographic it sounded. All of her recordings sound great yet this was the best I've heard her sound in my system, however, I confess I have not heard this recording in any other format so no direct comparison. I've downloaded a few Hi-Res files that I already have burned from cds (Peter Bernstein's MONK, Ian Shaw's DRAWN TO ALL THINGS to name two) so will be making those comparisons in the coming days.
-
Is the Tranquility DAC able to hook up to say a Squeezebox Touch via USB or does it have to be connected directly to a computer?
-
The Touch does not have a USB output.
Ken
-
The Touch does not have a USB output.
Actually, it is possible to use the USB port on the Touch as an output to a DAC, but it is not yet an official part of the firmware. I've been anxiously following these developments at the slimdevices forum:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78469 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78469)
Now that would be an interesting experiment... Touch > Tranquility. It would certainly solve some of my system configuration issues.
-
Actually, it is possible to use the USB port on the Touch as an output to a DAC, but it is not yet an official part of the firmware. I've been anxiously following these developments at the slimdevices forum:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78469 (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78469)
Now that would be an interesting experiment... Touch > Tranquility. It would certainly solve some of my system configuration issues.
Very interesting. Thanks for the link! Having the Tranquility hooked directly up to the Touch would be amazing and cut down the connectivity circus of having a dedicated computer.
-
Guys:
I want to say a very special thanks to Eric Hider of db Audio Labs for taking an hour of his time yesterday, on the telephone, to help me optimize my new Mac Mini with the Tranquility DAC. Talk about excellent customer service! I would also like to thank TimzTunz for calling me this afternoon and helping me chose the optimum settings in Pure Music.
Prior to setting up the Mac Mini I transferred all of my .flac files to a W.D. Fire Wire External Drive and saved them in .aiff format. I also removed the stock internal hard drive in the mini (which contains 4 gb of ram) with a solid state drive. With help from guys on Computer Audiophile I was able to connect everything properly and obtain music from my speakers, prior to talking with Eric later in the day. How do you spell relief? :thumb:
My experience with gear is that it improves over the first couple hundred of hours of use but it had better sound good when initially played. The only comment I will make is that I am very happy with the music this system is making today and I will not be sending the Tranquility back!
Ken
-
Guys:
I want to say a very special thanks to Eric Hider of db Audio Labs for taking an hour of his time yesterday, on the telephone, to help me optimize my new Mac Mini with the Tranquility DAC. Talk about excellent customer service! I would also like to thank TimzTunz for calling me this afternoon and helping me chose the optimum settings in Pure Music.
Prior to setting up the Mac Mini I transferred all of my .flac files to a W.D. Fire Wire External Drive and saved them in .aiff format. I also removed the stock internal hard drive in the mini (which contains 4 gb of ram) with a solid state drive. With help from guys on Computer Audiophile I was able to connect everything properly and obtain music from my speakers. How do you spell relief? :thumb:
My experience with gear is that it improves over the first couple hundred of hours of use but it had better sound good when initially played. The only comment I will make is that I am very happy with the music this system is making today and I will not be sending the Tranquility back!
Ken
Congratulations! It only gets better from here on out.
-
Ken,
Any comparisons to the MW Transporter that you can give?
Pm me if you like.
Thanks
Randy
-
Guys:
I want to say a very special thanks to Eric Hider of db Audio Labs for taking an hour of his time yesterday, on the telephone, to help me optimize my new Mac Mini with the Tranquility DAC. Talk about excellent customer service! I would also like to thank TimzTunz for calling me this afternoon and helping me chose the optimum settings in Pure Music.
Prior to setting up the Mac Mini I transferred all of my .flac files to a W.D. Fire Wire External Drive and saved them in .aiff format. I also removed the stock internal hard drive in the mini (which contains 4 gb of ram) with a solid state drive. With help from guys on Computer Audiophile I was able to connect everything properly and obtain music from my speakers, prior to talking with Eric later in the day. How do you spell relief? :thumb:
Isn't great when it all comes together and you have wonderful sound like you knew was there!!! :thumb:
-
OK, my turn.
The last 3 months have pretty much sucked when it comes to music at my house. I sold all of my gear and started putting together a new system based on a music server. All of this has happened in the final stages of the world's longest kitchen remodel - I think it belongs in Guinness :roll:. Anyway, I have been listening to a much modded Gigawork DAC driven by the media computer that I built (cool unit... more on it later). Speakers have been some little Jordan JX92S fullrangers with vifa XT25 tweets (thanks for the X-over schematic, Sheldon). Not at all what I have been used to for the last 5 years.
I think everyone has a good idea what I think of the Tranquility DAC based solely upon what I have heard at show and in other systems, never my own. I finally got my Tranquility DAC about 10 days ago, but I am in the final throes of the kitchen remodel and business has kept me busy. My friend Darrell McCombs has been looking to get a new DAC, so I thought it would be cool to let him audition the Tranquility and break it in for me, to boot. It proved to be a good thing all the way around. Seems like half of the Albuquerque bunch we hang out with has been over to listen to it, but I have just been slammed and tonight was the first night that I got to hear MY DAC, albeit in someone elses system.. not a bad thing - I know his system very well.It is Classe monoblocks driving B&W 802 Diamonds. Cabling is DCCA and Purist. The front end is a MAC Mini driving the DAC through a dB Audio Labs USB cable with level control being handled by a Denon HT processor. His room is well treated with absorption and diffusion. I have always found Darrell's system to be engaging, especially when spinning vinyl on the SOTA with a Zyx cartridge and head amp.
Tonight, however, was a completely different experience. The Tranquility has ~ 100 hours on it and is well on its' way to being broken in. What was different about listening to Darrell's system tonight was that at no time did I long for vinyl instead of digital reproduction. As I have mentioned before the greatest strength of the Tranquility is the absolutely natural, analog-like presentation of the music. I was immeresed in a huge 3-D soundstage with life-like image size and perfect placement with no image wander. Sibilants, always difficult for digital to get right (along with the harmonic series from cymbals) were stunning in their ease and timbral content. When was the last time you thought about the timbre of a sibilant or fricative? I was taken with the rightness of the soft 'ssss' sound that I have NEVER heard a digital system get right before. Cymbals had zero grain. Vocals were spot on. Dynamics, micro and macro were startling. The inner details were delicate and articulate... including ones that I had never heard before through my Cary 306 on software that I know, or at least thought I did, like the back of my hand (warts and all). Pace and timing is there in spades. It never seems to get ahead of or behind of the music. It has an uncanny way of allowing reverb tails and very soft sections to completely ring out and finish. Amazing!
The word "music" sums it up for me. It is THE MOST MUSICAL digital gear that I have ever heard, and that is a lot of gear - pro and consumer.
Bottom line: I like it. I really, really like it alot...
dB Audio Labs has redefined digital for me. Thanks, guys. Remarkable achievement!
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Dave
-
As I have mentioned before the greatest strength of the Tranquility is the absolutely natural, analog-like presentation of the music. I was immeresed in a huge 3-D soundstage with life-like image size and perfect placement with no image wander. Sibilants, always difficult for digital to get right (along with the harmonic series from cymbals) were stunning in their ease and timbral content. When was the last time you thought about the timbre of a sibilant or fricative? I was taken with the rightness of the soft 'ssss' sound that I have NEVER heard a digital system get right before. Cymbals had zero grain. Vocals were spot on. Dynamics, micro and macro were startling. The inner details were delicate and articulate... including ones that I had never heard before through my Cary 306 on software that I know, or at least thought I did, like the back of my hand (warts and all). Pace and timing is there in spades. It never seems to get ahead of or behind of the music. It has an uncanny way of allowing reverb tails and very soft sections to completely ring out and finish. Amazing!
The word "music" sums it up for me. It is THE MOST MUSICAL digital gear that I have ever heard, and that is a lot of gear - pro and consumer.
Dave:
My Tranquility DAC/Mac Mini System has just reached 100 hours on it and want to thank you for being able to express what I am also hearing. I find myself just absorbed into the music and for the first time not thinking about what I need to add or change next. :thumb:
Ken
-
OK, my turn.
The last 3 months have pretty much sucked when it comes to music at my house. I sold all of my gear and started putting together a new system based on a music server. All of this has happened in the final stages of the world's longest kitchen remodel - I think it belongs in Guinness :roll:. Anyway, I have been listening to a much modded Gigawork DAC driven by the media computer that I built (cool unit... more on it later). Speakers have been some little Jordan JX92S fullrangers with vifa XT25 tweets (thanks for the X-over schematic, Sheldon). Not at all what I have been used to for the last 5 years.
I think everyone has a good idea what I think of the Tranquility DAC based solely upon what I have heard at show and in other systems, never my own. I finally got my Tranquility DAC about 10 days ago, but I am in the final throes of the kitchen remodel and business has kept me busy. My friend Darrell McCombs has been looking to get a new DAC, so I thought it would be cool to let him audition the Tranquility and break it in for me, to boot. It proved to be a good thing all the way around. Seems like half of the Albuquerque bunch we hang out with has been over to listen to it, but I have just been slammed and tonight was the first night that I got to hear MY DAC, albeit in someone elses system.. not a bad thing - I know his system very well.It is Classe monoblocks driving B&W 802 Diamonds. Cabling is DCCA and Purist. The front end is a MAC Mini driving the DAC through a dB Audio Labs USB cable with level control being handled by a Denon HT processor. His room is well treated with absorption and diffusion. I have always found Darrell's system to be engaging, especially when spinning vinyl on the SOTA with a Zyx cartridge and head amp.
Tonight, however, was a completely different experience. The Tranquility has ~ 100 hours on it and is well on its' way to being broken in. What was different about listening to Darrell's system tonight was that at no time did I long for vinyl instead of digital reproduction. As I have mentioned before the greatest strength of the Tranquility is the absolutely natural, analog-like presentation of the music. I was immeresed in a huge 3-D soundstage with life-like image size and perfect placement with no image wander. Sibilants, always difficult for digital to get right (along with the harmonic series from cymbals) were stunning in their ease and timbral content. When was the last time you thought about the timbre of a sibilant or fricative? I was taken with the rightness of the soft 'ssss' sound that I have NEVER heard a digital system get right before. Cymbals had zero grain. Vocals were spot on. Dynamics, micro and macro were startling. The inner details were delicate and articulate... including ones that I had never heard before through my Cary 306 on software that I know, or at least thought I did, like the back of my hand (warts and all). Pace and timing is there in spades. It never seems to get ahead of or behind of the music. It has an uncanny way of allowing reverb tails and very soft sections to completely ring out and finish. Amazing!
The word "music" sums it up for me. It is THE MOST MUSICAL digital gear that I have ever heard, and that is a lot of gear - pro and consumer.
Bottom line: I like it. I really, really like it alot...
dB Audio Labs has redefined digital for me. Thanks, guys. Remarkable achievement!
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Dave
Dave,
I really appreciate being able to borrow your DAC. It has been educational and extremely fun. Digital has never sounded so good.
I have to echo Dav's comment regarding the DAC. Tonally it is balanced. The bass is deep and tight, the midrange full, and the highs are detailed without being harsh. Timing-wise, this DAC is right on the money. Cymbals, and "s" sounds are just like being there.
With the timing being so right, the seperation between instruments is well defined. The soundstage is incredibly wide, yet the center vocals are focused and the right size (no 5 foot wide female singers).
The detail and texture in the music is really allowed to shine through with this DAC. The level of detail is incredible, yet the highs are not sharp. As Dave mentioned, it is very vinyl-like.
After hearing Dave's DAC in my system for a week. I ordered one of my own. Eric is a joy to work with and has been so helpful with advice on how to set up the Music server. No matter what server you use, there are some services you will want to turn off, you will want to turn off unused hardware, and the individual music players all matter. Eric is very knowledgeable and helps his customers get the most out of the DAC. The combined result of this terrific DAC and a decent, well configured server is amazing! :banana piano:
Thanks Dave for the loan of the DAC, and the kind comments above regarding the system. It's always nice to have you over, and to get constructive feedback from people with your level of knowledge.
One minor correction re: my system - Instead of the Denon Processor, I am using a Pass Labs XP-10 Preamp.
Eric, if you are reading this, keep up all the good work, and thanks for the advice with setting up the Mac Mini. This DAC is so detailed, yet so vinyl-like. Its quite an accomplishment...
-
Thanks Dave for the loan of the DAC, and the kind comments above regarding the system. It's always nice to have you over, and to get constructive feedback from people with your level of knowledge.
One minor correction re: my system - Instead of the Denon Processor, I am using a Pass Labs XP-10 Preamp.
Eric, if you are reading this, keep up all the good work, and thanks for the advice with setting up the Mac Mini. This DAC is so detailed, yet so vinyl-like. Its quite an accomplishment...
Whoops, my bad on the processor. To compare the Pass to a Denon is darned close to heresy!
Everything I said is true. I've always enjoyed your system, but more importantly your love of music that has led you to optimize it into a wonderful purveyor of the emotion that lies in a great performance.
To put it mildly, last night kicked my butt into an accellerated kitchen experience so I can get to the important things in life. Back to the tablesaw... :duh:
Dave
-
Dave:
My Tranquility DAC/Mac Mini System has just reached 100 hours on it and want to thank you for being able to express what I am also hearing. I find myself just absorbed into the music and for the first time not thinking about what I need to add or change next. :thumb:
Ken
Yeah, Ken: it is a mindblower, for sure. What with the electronics that I've got, I think I'm done buying stuff. Now I just have to finish my Super V's and start tweaking on everything to get it "there" or better put, "here". :roll: I'll be glad when Darrell gets his Tranquility today or tomorrow.
Pesky remodel, anyway. :wink:
Dave
-
Dave,
I too want to thank you for so eloquently expressing the experience of this DAC. My impressions of the Tranquility mirror yours -- and I'm anything but a "me too" guy.
I've had many really good dacs, but this one is the only one that gets it all right technically, and manages to sound like real music at the same time. A DAC for the audiophile and music lover alike. Sounds like an obvious thing, but this is really the first one that has managed to be both.
Someday I hope there's a high-res version, but then only so I can retire this one to my other system.
BTW, I have several hundred hours on mine now, and my perception is that both te dac and Essential cable get even better with more time.
I'm at aplace now with my "deep listening" system, that I really don't feel any need whatsoever to upgrade or change anything, and all the friends, audiophile and non-phile alike who hear it are awestruck when they hear CDs they think they know well. For the guys who do know about such things, I have to explain that this is really redbook and with no EQ, filtering, or processing of any kind.
Thanks again, and get that remodel done, when you spend some quality time with this dac, the impressions just grow stronger.
-- Jim
-
Dave,
Thanks again, and get that remodel done, when you spend some quality time with this dac, the impressions just grow stronger.
-- Jim
Thanks for the kind words, Jim. I just call 'em as I hear 'em.
Like you, I've had many digital sources in my system starting with a horrid Philips 14 bit player back in early 1986. I always blamed the "digital sound" on the bad initial implementation of Redbook. Now, 24 years later, I understand just how much data is on the discs and it has been the decoding end that sucked. I've listened to every kind of player imaginable, both in the form of one box units, transport/DAC versions and worked with various pro units like ProTools, SADiE and Sonic Solutions as recorders/editors. Some of these sounded very good. Before this, the best playback I have heard has been achieved by dCS ring DACs. They are amazing in their own rights. They are what I would call "Technicolor" in presentation, though. Don't get me wrong, I would have a dCS piece in a heartbeat. I like Technicolor better than sepia tones. That is different from what I hear with the Tranquility. Like I said, it just makes music.
Eric and guys at dB Audio Labs chose a perfect name for their DAC. I can listen all night. Someday, in the very distant future when the kitchen is done, I'll be able to do that. Actually it is about 2 weeks to completion on a 2 year project that was interrupted by motivation, health (broken ribs... twice) and work issues. I see the light...................... :hyper:
Dave
-
I think it was in one of the HiRez forums I was browsing recently where I came across someone's experience with attenuators and digital and even though the application may have been different I thought I would try a pair of my unused attenuators on my Tranquility. This is not like anything I've experience with attenuators before-greater resolution and immediacy. The music has a livelier, more dynamic presentation with instruments more clearly defined. Any similar experiences?
-
I think it was in one of the HiRez forums I was browsing recently where I came across someone's experience with attenuators and digital and even though the application may have been different I thought I would try a pair of my unused attenuators on my Tranquility. This is not like anything I've experience with attenuators before-greater resolution and immediacy. The music has a livelier, more dynamic presentation with instruments more clearly defined. Any similar experiences?
Could you please expand on the attenuators? I think I know what you mean (using attenuators instead of volume control in a pre) but Ii could be way wrong here. Are you talking about fixed resistive attenuators for the output? Uh, I'm new here :wink:
Dave
-
Sorry for being vague...it was getting late when I posted. I'm speaking of attenuators that are used to help with the issue of too much gain. I have a pair of Rothwell attenuators as well as another pair leftover from an earlier system when this was a particular issue. My experience with them in the past was mixed. While they helped with the gain issue often this would be at the expense of dynamics. Reading something in the HiRez forum (relating to the M2 tech HiFace, I think) prompted me to try these on my Tranquility between the ICs and the dac. I don't understand why they would have such an impact but with them in place music seems to snap into focus. Bass lines are easier to follow, vocals sound more immediate...similar to the impact of Eric's computer tweaks...but perhaps to a greater degree. I've only had part of two evenings to listen so will need more time to assess the differences. Any thoughts?
-
Can someone explain what this tweak for the Mac means:
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
I only run one OS on my Macbook. Could it mean shutting down other applications running on the machine like finder or a web browser?
Recently heard the dac in question with a few others. Nice piece but only had about 24 hours on it. I am sure it will sound much better when it is fully burned. Folks heard bigger differences in the IC we changed than the DACs under test. Very fine lines of differentiation on a short eval.
-
Can someone explain what this tweak for the Mac means:
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
A better way to put it is that all operational services - the ones that can potentially be running in the background - should be turned off, at least, or eliminated, at best.
I'm a PC and have recently built a Windows XP based music server. XP is about 1.5GB when installed. Using nLite and then eliminating manually all unnecessary services and crapware I got it down to about 300MB before adding the music software, Firefox and a few other "essential" (to me) programs. By eliminating all of this baggage everything boots and works better and the sound quality is hugely improved.
HTH
Dave
-
A better way to put it is that all operational services - the ones that can potentially be running in the background - should be turned off, at least, or eliminated, at best.
I'm a PC and have recently built a Windows XP based music server. XP is about 1.5GB when installed. Using nLite and then eliminating manually all unnecessary services and crapware I got it down to about 300MB before adding the music software, Firefox and a few other "essential" (to me) programs. By eliminating all of this baggage everything boots and works better and the sound quality is hugely improved.
HTH
Dave
Come on Dave, get a Mini brother!
-
Come on Dave, get a Mini brother!
I heard Texans don't pack "Mini's". :jester:
-
I heard Texans don't pack "Mini's". :jester:
You been talking to Art. I'm from Clovis, NM aka "little Texas". We don't pack Mini's, either. I pack a .40 S&W.
I have an ulterior motive for hanging with a PC. It has to do with my business, so............................ :shh:
Dave
-
OK, sorry, I need to vent... In a good way. :green:
I have had the Tranquility DAC for a few weeks now. It sounded great when I got it, and even better when it and the usb cable broke in.
I started out with a PC laptop driving the DAC. It sounded very nice. Eric told me how great a Mac Mini sounds as a server. A friend of mine has a Mac Mini and we tried it with the DAC. The Mac Mini sounded better.
So I bought a 2010 Mac Mini to drive the DAC (you may see where this is going)... Eric helped me set up the Mac mini. Many of the improvements are free (configuration of the software), but some involved $$$. I know, whine, whine, whine...
My point is that this DAC gets out of the way and really lets the music and server sounds its best. Every time I improved the server, the DAC let me hear it. I am hearing fuller and cleaner music than I have heard from digital through this DAC.
Immersive soundstage, deep tight bass, crystal clear highs without harshness, full sound, excellent timing, separation of instruments, its all there.
It doesn't quite match my wonderful vinyl rig, but the vinyl rig did cost about 7x more. This Tranquility DAC / Mac Mini combo does get into he same neighborhood sound quality wise though.
I thrilled with the DAC and db Audio Labs is great to deal with. I even had fun getting the DAC and Mac Mini set up and tweaked. It is great to work on something and see such spectacular results. :banana piano:
-
I've had a Tranquility DAC since January (back when this thread started), and I wanted to jump in and report on the new power cable that dB Audio has just started sending out. It connects to the Mac Mini power supply brick (between the brick and the outlet), so this only applies to those who feed their Tranquility from a Mac Mini.
Before I bought the new cable, I asked Eric a bunch of questions about what it was supposed to do. Now that I have it, I almost don't care how it's working! :o
In my system it made a very clear difference—one that surprised me. The level of effortless detail went up noticeably. I suddenly found myself sinking in to the sound and forgetting about everything else. The upper midrange lost a "glare" that I hadn't noticed before, but the absence was definitely welcome. The soundstage got deeper and wider (I think related to the ease of low level detail retrieval giving me better aural clues). And voices now have an ease and purity that is alluring (again, I think a combination of the reduction of the glare that I didn't know was there and of the ease of detail retrieval that makes a voice palpable). The reduction in the glare also produced a more balanced sound with the bass coming through more clearly and everything sounding even, top to bottom. Again, I think the reduction in glare allowed me to hear more clearly (and with less fatigue) what was already there. I'm not sure that the bass increased, necessarily, but rather came more into equilibrium when the glare was cleaned up.
From what I understand of the technical explanation that Eric provided, the cable is doing a bit of cleanup (or tuneup) in both directions. The cable is designed to hit a sweet spot in inductance and capacitance feeding the power brick, so the brick (a switching power supply that generates 16.3 v, I believe, to the Mini) is producing the best quality DC for the Mini. The cable also has a filtering affect on the grunge that the switching power supply spits back onto the A/C lines (and into the other components on the same circuit).
When I received the Tranquility USB cable I was happy with it; it made an observable improvement; it was a keeper. But this is a much more dramatic difference. The system has never had the open, clean, and flowing musicality that it does now. :banana piano:
-
Guys:
There are reports surfacing that the latest Mac Mini with internal power supply is sonically superior to the previous models. I own a 2009 Mac Mini with a SS Internal Drive and 4 GB of Ram. Last night I discovered on the Apple Core Circle discussion about a tweak to make the 2009 and 2010 Mac Minis run as 64 bit machines. I followed this link: http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/ (http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/) I discovered my Mini is running as a 32 bit machine and will have to follow the instructions to make it run in the 64 bit mode. Many folks have performed the tweak and claim it makes a huge difference to sonic performance from the older Minis.
I would like to know if any of you Tranquility Owners are running your Minis in the 64 bit mode and can report on the sonic differences between 32 bit and 64 bit?
Thanks,
Ken
-
Guys:
There are reports surfacing that the latest Mac Mini with internal power supply is sonically superior to the previous models. I own a 2009 Mac Mini with a SS Internal Drive and 4 GB of Ram. Last night I discovered on the Apple Core Circle discussion about a tweak to make the 2009 and 2010 Mac Minis run as 64 bit machines. I followed this link: http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/ (http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/) I discovered my Mini is running as a 32 bit machine and will have to follow the instructions to make it run in the 64 bit mode. Many folks have performed the tweak and claim it makes a huge difference to sonic performance from the older Minis.
I would like to know if any of you Tranquility Owners are running your Minis in the 64 bit mode and can report on the sonic differences between 32 bit and 64 bit?
Thanks,
Ken
I'll give it a try tonight.
-
Can someone explain what this tweak for the Mac means:
Shutting down all other operating systems running in the back ground improves the sound (considerably).
I only run one OS on my Macbook. Could it mean shutting down other applications running on the machine like finder or a web browser?
Recently heard the dac in question with a few others. Nice piece but only had about 24 hours on it. I am sure it will sound much better when it is fully burned. Folks heard bigger differences in the IC we changed than the DACs under test. Very fine lines of differentiation on a short eval.
It doesn't look like anyone answered your question about tweaking your MacBook.
1. Shut off Spotlight indexing by removing the check in the box from every category that Spotlight can index (this is in System Preferences, the Spotlight options). This prevents Spotlight from running in the background.
2. Connect your music hard drive to the Mac by FireWire, preferably using a 2.5" drive in a drive enclosure that draws power from the FireWire port, not using a wall-wart.
3. Quoting from Eric Hider on this one:
"Turn your Dashboard off:
Open the utility program called "Terminal" (in Applications)
Type EXACTLY as written below (all spaces included, EXACTLY as written caps, spaces, dots and dashes !!!)
defaults write com.apple.dashboard mcx-disabled -boolean YES
Hit your enter key
Now type in the next command EXACTLY as written "D" in the word dock is CAPITALIZED
killall Dock
Hit your enter -
Note: Your dashboard will now no longer open on your front desktop page.... and be constantly using your memory ;-)"
4. Again, quoting from Eric:
"Turn your journaling off -
Open "Disk Utility" (located in Applications/Utilities).
Highlight the name Macintosh HD on the left side of choices
To disable journaling, press Option key on keyboard, WHILE HOLDING ON TO the OPTION key - select disable journaling from the top of your screen on the file menu."
5. In System Profiler, check what devices are shared on the port that the Tranquility DAC is connected to. Try to get it onto a USB port by itself. The best I can do is get it to share a port with the IR receiver (which I don't use).
Those are the tweaks that I've used to the benefit of my system.
Happy listening. :thumb:
Oh, and I moved from a MacBook to a Mac Mini and it does make a noticeable difference (as long as you run the Mini without a monitor, mouse, or keyboard connected; just access it via Screen Sharing from another Mac after you turn on Screen Sharing after initial setup)
And a further note: after I moved to the Mac Mini I installed a solid state drive in it. That also improved the sound. I got a small one (64Gb OCZ Vertex Turbo, for what it's worth). It's just runs a fresh install of Mac OS 10.6.4, so it only needs 20-30 Gb of space.
And I did not upgrade the memory beyond 2 Gb. I'm using AIFF files, so there's little work by the computer to unpack them (as there would be with Apple Lossless or FLAC--but this is getting into a debated area, so make what you will of that).
UPDATE
I just found a new (to me) way to improve the sound from my Mac Mini to my Tranquility DAC: turn off the IR receiver. I thought I had looked thoroughly for a way to do that, but today I was surprised to stumble across it. It's in the System Preferences panel, under Security settings, in the General tab: at the bottom is a check box to "Disable remote infrared receiver".
My Tranquility DAC is connected to a USB port shared with the IR receiver, and now that it's off the sound is more fluid and smooth, with some hash/grit in the upper treble removed. No negative effects--just better music.
(The other set of USB ports seem to be shared with an internal hub, so I avoid those since the one shared with the IR receiver seems to be on its own, maybe better isolated?)
-
Thanks very much for taking the trouble to post this. :thumb:
-
And for the PC users out there, I've spent the las 5 or 6 days with the AQVox ASIO driver and found it to be a significant step up from all the others -- asio4all, usb-asio, and Foobar's Kernel streaming. More air around instruments, more detail presnented in a very organic way, better top-to-bottom balance, ambience retrieval, soundstage, and even better tone and dynamic contrasts. Not cheap at $126 but very much worth it to my ears.
Works great with Tranquility and when you buy ghe key you also get access to version 1.0.3, which is more up to date than the demo 1.0.2.
This is the only usb driver I know of that communicates directly with the usb chip in the computer and bypasses everything else.
I haven't got it to work with my HRT MusicStreamer II+ yet though, but that will be connected to my linux box for my headphone rig anyway.
-- Jim
-
And for the PC users out there, I've spent the las 5 or 6 days with the AQVox ASIO driver and found it to be a significant step up from all the others -- asio4all, usb-asio, and Foobar's Kernel streaming.
Is this with XP?
-
Guys:
There are reports surfacing that the latest Mac Mini with internal power supply is sonically superior to the previous models. I own a 2009 Mac Mini with a SS Internal Drive and 4 GB of Ram. Last night I discovered on the Apple Core Circle discussion about a tweak to make the 2009 and 2010 Mac Minis run as 64 bit machines. I followed this link: http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/ (http://blog.leanopen.com/tag/64-bit/) I discovered my Mini is running as a 32 bit machine and will have to follow the instructions to make it run in the 64 bit mode. Many folks have performed the tweak and claim it makes a huge difference to sonic performance from the older Minis.
I would like to know if any of you Tranquility Owners are running your Minis in the 64 bit mode and can report on the sonic differences between 32 bit and 64 bit?
Thanks,
Ken
Regarding hacking the Mac Mini to boot the 64-bit kernel:
I gave it a try. The instructions to change the efi file worked fine. The instructions to edit the plist file were wrong and overly complicated. Apple provides a much easier command line entry to do it: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3773
I wouldn't recommend doing it at all, however. I booted into 64-bit mode (confirmed in System Profiler), and the sound quality was worse. The highs were a bit rougher, and things were not as rich and musical. It certainly didn't improve anything.
So I checked the Applications list, and iTunes is a 32-bit application. Booting into 64-bit certainly isn't freeing iTunes to do anything better. The other system components are a mix of 32 and 64 bit, but it doesn't seem to help the sound quality to have them running under the 64 bit kernel.
Your mileage may vary, but I would avoid it. All my files are in AIFF format, so iTunes is doing very little work to get them out the door to my Tranquility DAC as it is.
-
Thanks very much for taking the trouble to post this. :thumb:
Thanks, I added a little more at the bottom of the post.
-
And for the PC users out there, I've spent the las 5 or 6 days with the AQVox ASIO driver and found it to be a significant step up from all the others -- asio4all, usb-asio, and Foobar's Kernel streaming. More air around instruments, more detail presnented in a very organic way, better top-to-bottom balance, ambience retrieval, soundstage, and even better tone and dynamic contrasts. Not cheap at $126 but very much worth it to my ears.
Works great with Tranquility and when you buy ghe key you also get access to version 1.0.3, which is more up to date than the demo 1.0.2.
This is the only usb driver I know of that communicates directly with the usb chip in the computer and bypasses everything else.
I haven't got it to work with my HRT MusicStreamer II+ yet though, but that will be connected to my linux box for my headphone rig anyway.
-- Jim
Jim,
It appears that you got to try this before I could and I am very happy that it is as good as I have seen it written up as being. I'll be pulling the trigger on this probably tomorrow. I'm catching up on things tonight and won't be into the media computer until tomorrow.
This is awesome!
Thanks for the update.
Dave
-
WGH, yes, sorry, forgot to mention this is all with xp. Soon I'll be stripping the OS down to bare bones with nLite, and then I'll be adding a linear psu and SSD (once I figure out how to do it on a machine with no native CD drive.)
Dave, thanks, and you can bet I gave it a good try -- both the sonics and device compatibility) before I plunked down the cash. My music was punctuated with short beeps every minute for many days :-).
Jim
-
Regarding hacking the Mac Mini to boot the 64-bit kernel:
I gave it a try. The instructions to change the efi file worked fine. The instructions to edit the plist file were wrong and overly complicated. Apple provides a much easier command line entry to do it: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3773
I wouldn't recommend doing it at all, however. I booted into 64-bit mode (confirmed in System Profiler), and the sound quality was worse. The highs were a bit rougher, and things were not as rich and musical. It certainly didn't improve anything.
So I checked the Applications list, and iTunes is a 32-bit application. Booting into 64-bit certainly isn't freeing iTunes to do anything better. The other system components are a mix of 32 and 64 bit, but it doesn't seem to help the sound quality to have them running under the 64 bit kernel.
Your mileage may vary, but I would avoid it. All my files are in AIFF format, so iTunes is doing very little work to get them out the door to my Tranquility DAC as it is.
Are you using only iTunes as your music player and library manager? Or are you using something like Pure Music, Play, Amarra, etc. as the player and using iTunes only as the library manager? I'm not doubting your findings, they are what they are. If you say it sounded worse to you then I believe you, and I have not tried this myself. But in my case, where I use Pure Music as the player and only use iTunes as the library manager I'm not sure that iTunes is playing ANY part in the sound quality.
-
Are you using only iTunes as your music player and library manager? Or are you using something like Pure Music, Play, Amarra, etc. as the player and using iTunes only as the library manager? I'm not doubting your findings, they are what they are. If you say it sounded worse to you then I believe you, and I have not tried this myself. But in my case, where I use Pure Music as the player and only use iTunes as the library manager I'm not sure that iTunes is playing ANY part in the sound quality.
I only use iTunes, so yes you may find it helps with something like Pure Music. It may also sound better with iTunes for some people. Let us know. :)
-
WGH, yes, sorry, forgot to mention this is all with xp.
This could be a good option for people locked into XP or want to build a stripped down box like you are. I had been using XP with usb-asio but now use a networked Toshiba laptop running a 64 bit Vista with WASAPI and like the sound better.
Looks like I'll have to try out the demo and see if I hear any difference between the AQVox ASIO driver and WASAPI on my XP and Vista computers which go to a HagUSB --> AVA Insight DAC.
I was thinking if the sound is similar most users would be better off upgrading their OS to Vista or Windows 7 and using WASAPI for the same price of the the AQVox ASIO driver. I still like and use XP on my main rig but it is getting a little long in the tooth and needs a good firewall and antivirus to be secure.
Wayne
-
Are you using only iTunes as your music player and library manager? Or are you using something like Pure Music, Play, Amarra, etc. as the player and using iTunes only as the library manager? I'm not doubting your findings, they are what they are. If you say it sounded worse to you then I believe you, and I have not tried this myself. But in my case, where I use Pure Music as the player and only use iTunes as the library manager I'm not sure that iTunes is playing ANY part in the sound quality.
I am running Pure Music in Hog Mode and I made the change to the 64 bit mode this afternoon. I did not listen today in the 32 bit mode and all I will say is that I have no negative comments to make about listening in the 64 bit mode. I believe there is even more detail and life to the music. I recommend you try it!
Ken
-
I am running Pure Music in Hog Mode and I made the change to the 64 bit mode this afternoon. I did not listen today in the 32 bit mode and all I will say is that I have no negative comments to make about listening in the 64 bit mode. I believe there is even more detail and life to the music. I recommend you try it!
Ken
Pure Music seems to offer a free trial, so I may give it a shot. It won't be for a while, though, since I have a new amp and preamp coming and want to understand their affect before I tweak iTunes.
Are your files in Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV? I'd be especially curious to try Pure Music if you're hearing a difference with your music files in AIFF or WAV format because my expectation has been that if iTunes is doing no work in decompressing the files before playback then there is likely little benefit in using add-on software with better mathematical algorithms for handling the file output. I'm open minded on that, of course, and I'm always happy to improve the sound (even where I don't expect it--case in point being the not subtle improvement I noted above from the dB Audio power cord for my Mac Mini).
-
Pure Music seems to offer a free trial, so I may give it a shot. It won't be for a while, though, since I have a new amp and preamp coming and want to understand their affect before I tweak iTunes.
Are your files in Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV? I'd be especially curious to try Pure Music if you're hearing a difference with your music files in AIFF or WAV format because my expectation has been that if iTunes is doing no work in decompressing the files before playback then there is likely little benefit in using add-on software with better mathematical algorithms for handling the file output. I'm open minded on that, of course, and I'm always happy to improve the sound (even where I don't expect it--case in point being the not subtle improvement I noted above from the dB Audio power cord for my Mac Mini).
When I purchased The Tranquility Eric recommended I compare ITunes, Pure Music, Amara and there is a free program that I cannot remember its name. Most of the guys on Computer Audio with Macs seem to be running Pure Music. I tried it and felt there was a definite improvement over ITunes. Please note I am running Pure Music in Hog Mode!
All of my files are .aiff!
Good luck,
Ken
-
When I purchased The Tranquility Eric recommended I compare ITunes, Pure Music, Amara and there is a free program that I cannot remember its name. Most of the guys on Computer Audio with Macs seem to be running Pure Music. I tried it and felt there was a definite improvement over ITunes. Please note I am running Pure Music in Hog Mode!
All of my files are .aiff!
Good luck,
Ken
Cool. I'll check it out. :thumb:
-
This could be a good option for people locked into XP or want to build a stripped down box like you are. I had been using XP with usb-asio but now use a networked Toshiba laptop running a 64 bit Vista with WASAPI and like the sound better.
Looks like I'll have to try out the demo and see if I hear any difference between the AQVox ASIO driver and WASAPI on my XP and Vista computers which go to a HagUSB --> AVA Insight DAC.
I was thinking if the sound is similar most users would be better off upgrading their OS to Vista or Windows 7 and using WASAPI for the same price of the the AQVox ASIO driver. I still like and use XP on my main rig but it is getting a little long in the tooth and needs a good firewall and antivirus to be secure.
Wayne
I initially imagined that upgrading to Windows 7 and using WASAPI would be the better option as well. But I guess we won't really have any indication until someone has run the comparison. That's why I think Jim should get a second, identical PC and load up Windows 7, so he can conduct a controlled experiment for us.
Thanks Jim!
Chad
-
Basically, if I am reading the recommendations correctly: while using a pc or mac as a music server, simply shut down any and all background processes that could affect the processing (timing) of the output. It seems logical that anything stealing processor cycles could affect the output.
-
When I purchased The Tranquility Eric recommended I compare ITunes, Pure Music, Amara and there is a free program that I cannot remember its name. Most of the guys on Computer Audio with Macs seem to be running Pure Music. I tried it and felt there was a definite improvement over ITunes. Please note I am running Pure Music in Hog Mode!
All of my files are .aiff!
Good luck,
Ken
Ken,
The FREE program was "PLAY" by sbooth. Link below:
http://sbooth.org/
Mick
-
Chad,
I don't think this little Asus EEE box has what it takes to run Win7, but perhaps at some point in the future I can work on a stripped down version of Win7, but it'll have to wait.
I'm just about to switch over to win7 on my main machine, along with dual boot with Debian linx so I can have a development platform for the Alix boards.
Right now all of this stuff seems to be pretty system specific as to what produces the best sound, and my point of reference is my Tranquility dac with Essential usb cable (yes, tried several others but ultimately came back to the Essential) my LDR passive and my Fi 2a3 monos and Tonian TL-D1s. I'm sure folks' mileages will vary considerably, especially in relation to the usb cable and usb implementation of the dac and/or converter.
The Mac is just not an option for me due to non-visual access issues, so I'm committed to finding the best PC and linux solutions I can. I also run my audio PC headless and use my screen reader and headphones to access the controls, and video cards seem to be a really large contributor to degraded sound quality. Even my Acer netbook running on batteries is noisier than the Asus with an upgraded switcher -- most likely because there's no running from the video booggie man. I'm sure the on-board sound card effects the output somewhat, and I think the aqvox driver, with it's direct hardware connection to the usb chip removed that from the equation, and it will probably remove wasapi from the picture as well. Just guessing now, but something special is up with this driver.
-- Jim
I initially imagined that upgrading to Windows 7 and using WASAPI would be the better option as well. But I guess we won't really have any indication until someone has run the comparison. That's why I think Jim should get a second, identical PC and load up Windows 7, so he can conduct a controlled experiment for us.
Thanks Jim!
Chad
-
Here is the ASUS eee PC Seashell 1005PE-PU17-BU 10.1-Inch Blue Netbook
with Win7
http://www.amazon.com/Seashell-1005PE-PU17-BU-10-1-Inch-Netbook-Battery/dp/B00322PYZY/ref=wl_it_dp_o?ie=UTF8&coliid=IDUV2LS6NHY3R&colid=10VARVUVDQHR7
Scotty
-
Regarding hacking the Mac Mini to boot the 64-bit kernel:
I gave it a try. The instructions to change the efi file worked fine. The instructions to edit the plist file were wrong and overly complicated. Apple provides a much easier command line entry to do it: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3773
I wouldn't recommend doing it at all, however. I booted into 64-bit mode (confirmed in System Profiler), and the sound quality was worse. The highs were a bit rougher, and things were not as rich and musical. It certainly didn't improve anything.
So I checked the Applications list, and iTunes is a 32-bit application. Booting into 64-bit certainly isn't freeing iTunes to do anything better. The other system components are a mix of 32 and 64 bit, but it doesn't seem to help the sound quality to have them running under the 64 bit kernel.
Your mileage may vary, but I would avoid it. All my files are in AIFF format, so iTunes is doing very little work to get them out the door to my Tranquility DAC as it is.
I have found this application to be the easiest to use in switching kernels, no command line knowledge required:
http://timesoftware.free.fr/k64enabler/
-
It doesn't look like anyone answered your question about tweaking your MacBook.
1. Shut off Spotlight indexing by removing the check in the box from every category that Spotlight can index (this is in System Preferences, the Spotlight options). This prevents Spotlight from running in the background.
2. Connect your music hard drive to the Mac by FireWire, preferably using a 2.5" drive in a drive enclosure that draws power from the FireWire port, not using a wall-wart.
3. Quoting from Eric Hider on this one:
"Turn your Dashboard off:
Open the utility program called "Terminal" (in Applications)
Type EXACTLY as written below (all spaces included, EXACTLY as written caps, spaces, dots and dashes !!!)
defaults write com.apple.dashboard mcx-disabled -boolean YES
Hit your enter key
Now type in the next command EXACTLY as written "D" in the word dock is CAPITALIZED
killall Dock
Hit your enter -
Note: Your dashboard will now no longer open on your front desktop page.... and be constantly using your memory ;-)"
4. Again, quoting from Eric:
"Turn your journaling off -
Open "Disk Utility" (located in Applications/Utilities).
Highlight the name Macintosh HD on the left side of choices
To disable journaling, press Option key on keyboard, WHILE HOLDING ON TO the OPTION key - select disable journaling from the top of your screen on the file menu."
5. In System Profiler, check what devices are shared on the port that the Tranquility DAC is connected to. Try to get it onto a USB port by itself. The best I can do is get it to share a port with the IR receiver (which I don't use).
Those are the tweaks that I've used to the benefit of my system.
Happy listening. :thumb:
Oh my gosh, thank you for posting these 5 steps. Just performed steps 1, 3, and 4 (2 and 5 already done previously) and I'm amazed at the difference. My music has never sounded so focused and clear. Cost = $0! How did I never see these instructions anywhere before?
For reference, I have Mac Mini (OS 10.6) -- Tranquility DAC -- Virtue Sensation M901 -- Gallo Stradas
I thought it was already pretty good but this was a nice bump up for a couple minutes of work.
-
Eric guided me through the Mac Mini optimizing process when I first obtained the Tranquility and therefore I never experienced the differences the changes made to the sound. I don't know if you have taken the step but another one of Eric's recommendations is to replace the stock hard drive with a SS drive.
I would add that my latest upgrade, replacing the stock brick power supply with a Bolder linear power supply made a very noticable improvement.
Ken
-
I would add that my latest upgrade, replacing the stock brick power supply with a Bolder linear power supply made a very noticable improvement.
Ken
There's that option, and also Eric's power cable for the Mini. He seems to think it'll make an even bigger difference than a better supply. Shootout?!
Or scrap it all and go for the small silent streaming solid state Linux server, powered by batteries.
-
For what it's worth, I've been using an early generation Asus EEEpc with solid state hard drive running a netbook version of linux for quite some time. Energy efficient and battery operable, yes. Am I certain it's better than the Mac Mini options? No. Is linux a pain in the royal ars? Absolutely. I want to use it for connectivity for streaming online video, and the netbook multimedia capabilities are really bad. Furthermore, the compatibility for output to my HDTV is piss poor. Finally, Netflix streaming doesn't support linux at all, so that's completely out. I'm pretty much fed up and ready to bite the bullet on a Mac Mini to give that a try. Probably will use the Asus as a remote for the Mini from my listening position.
Maybe someone else has done a comparison on audio quality. If not, and if I ever get around to trying the Mini, I'll try to post my findings.
~Ben
-
For what it's worth, I've been using an early generation Asus EEEpc with solid state hard drive running a netbook version of linux for quite some time. Energy efficient and battery operable, yes. Am I certain it's better than the Mac Mini options? No. Is linux a pain in the royal ars? Absolutely. I want to use it for connectivity for streaming online video, and the netbook multimedia capabilities are really bad. Furthermore, the compatibility for output to my HDTV is piss poor. Finally, Netflix streaming doesn't support linux at all, so that's completely out. I'm pretty much fed up and ready to bite the bullet on a Mac Mini to give that a try. Probably will use the Asus as a remote for the Mini from my listening position.
Maybe someone else has done a comparison on audio quality. If not, and if I ever get around to trying the Mini, I'll try to post my findings.
~Ben
What application on a Linux os plays music files? what kind of files?
I have an asus as well, and could do a comparison to a mini, if I knew how to set it up for oranges to oranges comparison (didn't want to use apples to apples phrase on this one) of the file type.
-Tony
-
Tony,
See this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62364.0
The key to this setup is that it uses a single board computer that has no keyboard, video or HDD runs Voyage linux (a stripped down version of debian) and uses only 3 watts of power. It only has usb ports and ethernet ports.
-- Jim
-
Tony,
See this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62364.0
Thats the Linux setup I had in mind. Could be powered with the Red Wine Audio battery pack. Ultimate transport?? In any case, I'd live to see a comparison between that and a fully tweaked Mac Mini.
-
It doesn't look like anyone answered your question about tweaking your MacBook.
1. Shut off Spotlight indexing by removing the check in the box from every category that Spotlight can index (this is in System Preferences, the Spotlight options). This prevents Spotlight from running in the background.
2. Connect your music hard drive to the Mac by FireWire, preferably using a 2.5" drive in a drive enclosure that draws power from the FireWire port, not using a wall-wart.
3. Quoting from Eric Hider on this one:
"Turn your Dashboard off:
Open the utility program called "Terminal" (in Applications)
Type EXACTLY as written below (all spaces included, EXACTLY as written caps, spaces, dots and dashes !!!)
defaults write com.apple.dashboard mcx-disabled -boolean YES
Hit your enter key
Now type in the next command EXACTLY as written "D" in the word dock is CAPITALIZED
killall Dock
Hit your enter -
Note: Your dashboard will now no longer open on your front desktop page.... and be constantly using your memory ;-)"
4. Again, quoting from Eric:
"Turn your journaling off -
Open "Disk Utility" (located in Applications/Utilities).
Highlight the name Macintosh HD on the left side of choices
To disable journaling, press Option key on keyboard, WHILE HOLDING ON TO the OPTION key - select disable journaling from the top of your screen on the file menu."
5. In System Profiler, check what devices are shared on the port that the Tranquility DAC is connected to. Try to get it onto a USB port by itself. The best I can do is get it to share a port with the IR receiver (which I don't use).
Those are the tweaks that I've used to the benefit of my system.
Happy listening. :thumb:
Oh, and I moved from a MacBook to a Mac Mini and it does make a noticeable difference (as long as you run the Mini without a monitor, mouse, or keyboard connected; just access it via Screen Sharing from another Mac after you turn on Screen Sharing after initial setup)
And a further note: after I moved to the Mac Mini I installed a solid state drive in it. That also improved the sound. I got a small one (64Gb OCZ Vertex Turbo, for what it's worth). It's just runs a fresh install of Mac OS 10.6.4, so it only needs 20-30 Gb of space.
And I did not upgrade the memory beyond 2 Gb. I'm using AIFF files, so there's little work by the computer to unpack them (as there would be with Apple Lossless or FLAC--but this is getting into a debated area, so make what you will of that).
If you turn off the dashboard how are accessing itunes, sonos,safari etc?
-
If you turn off the dashboard how are accessing itunes, sonos,safari etc?
You might be confusing the dashboard with the dock. The dock is where the application icons live, and that isn't affected. The dashboard is a background process that's running in order to call up widgets when you press the relevant function key. Hope that addresses your question. :thumb:
-
Oh my gosh, thank you for posting these 5 steps. Just performed steps 1, 3, and 4 (2 and 5 already done previously) and I'm amazed at the difference. My music has never sounded so focused and clear. Cost = $0! How did I never see these instructions anywhere before?
For reference, I have Mac Mini (OS 10.6) -- Tranquility DAC -- Virtue Sensation M901 -- Gallo Stradas
I thought it was already pretty good but this was a nice bump up for a couple minutes of work.
I think most of them came from Eric Hider at dB Audio, although I had tried a couple on my own based on other posts or experimenting. I also turned off Bluetooth, and I made sure the Mac Mini was connected via Ethernet to my WiFi router and turned off the WiFi in the Mini. I did not do an A/B comparison on those changes. Gordon Rankin at Wavelength Audio is particularly critical of having WiFi transceivers anywhere near the DAC, so I just went ahead and shut down the Bluetooth and WiFi for good measure.
-
My latest Tranquility tweaks...I've had my DAC for awhile now and short of a speaker upgrade I did not think I would significantly improve on the current sound. Last week I purchased some TerraStone footers from EdenSound for my amp. They do have a positive effect supporting my LFD integrated but not as profound as when placing them beneath the Tranquility where a whole new level of transparency now exists.
Has anyone else had good experiences with footers and their Tranquility?
Not directly related to the DAC but I also recently replaced my Porter Port outlet (which has been my reference for a number of years) with a Maestro from Fernando Cruz and have to say that it is now my new standard. As many have noted the PP is a great outlet that allows so much more of the music to come through without boosting or unduly shaping any part of the musical spectrum. The Maestro seems to do just that but to a greater extent than the PP.
-
My latest Tranquility tweaks...I've had my DAC for awhile now and short of a speaker upgrade I did not think I would significantly improve on the current sound. Last week I purchased some TerraStone footers from EdenSound for my amp. They do have a positive effect supporting my LFD integrated but not as profound as when placing them beneath the Tranquility where a whole new level of transparency now exists.
Has anyone else had good experiences with footers and their Tranquility?
Not directly related to the DAC but I also recently replaced my Porter Port outlet (which has been my reference for a number of years) with a Maestro from Fernando Cruz and have to say that it is now my new standard. As many have noted the PP is a great outlet that allows so much more of the music to come through without boosting or unduly shaping any part of the musical spectrum. The Maestro seems to do just that but to a greater extent than the PP.
I find it extremely interesting that power tweaks like the outlet swap that you did seem to have greater impact with digital sources than with analog. Digital simply wants the cleanest power that it can get, methinks.
Dave
-
As far as footers go, I tried a few different ones from the yamamoto ebony bases, to pulsar points, and others, and found that the Herbie's soft Tenderfeet were the magic solution for my setup, but that's on a very solid and heavy custom maple rack, so I can't gurantee the same thing will work for other substrates.
As far as an AC oiutlet, I'm using an Oyaide SWO-GX and a Element Signature Terminator PC, and the combination seems too good to beat on my gear -- lots of body and detail, tone is remarkable, dynamics equally so, and the soundstage enormous with this combination.
-- Jim
-
There will also be an upcoming post on Audiogon of a direct comparison between our Tranquility DAC / Mini / Essential USB cable solution and the highly touted $15,000 Vitus CD player. :thumb:
hi. any update on this?
-
Here’s the update on this. Eric came by my place in April and we spent a couple of hours listening to his setup in my room in different variations he created with power cords, usb cables, etc. We didn’t actually do a direct comparison with the Vitus player as you might interpret from how that was written, but rather we listened to one track on my Vitus and then hooked up the Tranquility and spent all our time listening to it. If I’m going to do a direct comparison between two of anything audio, it would need to be over a longer period of time with an opportunity to listen in a variety of setups and take notes. I didn’t do any of that, so writing something constituting a direct comparison with any detail about how the two components are alike or different is impossible for me in this instance.
I can say the following with certainty:
1 – Eric is a good guy and we had a great listening session
2 – The Tranquility setup he brought over sounded terrific, very organic and natural, so I can easily understand all that’s been written about it. It was also quite responsive to different cables and things Eric showed me by swapping them around.
3 – I still own the Vitus and plan to for some time into the future.
I recall telling Eric a $4K setup like that had no business throwing stones at a $20K player like the Vitus but his setup did. That said, after plugging the Vitus back in I had no desire to sell it and get a Tranquility setup. Why? What do I prefer about the Vitus versus the Tranquility? Can’t answer those questions for you, I can only tell you I really like my player and continue to enjoy it.
If you’re in the market for a digital setup like Eric offers, I would strongly suggest you listen to the db Audio Labs offering, it’s excellent and he seems like a really good guy to me.
Sorry to disappoint. But I never had the data needed to do a direct comparison based on a couple of hours of listening.
-
Nice post Art
I'm sure for the Money the Tranquility dac is a home run
Eric is a great guy to deal with
Cheers
Pat
-
I'd be a fool to not have this on my short list.
I think the only think stopping me is I sorely wish it had at least a couple of other digital inputs on it besides just the USB because that's what I need.
And how big of a deal is it, really, that it doesn't have balanced XLR outs on it?
It's clearly a beast at a great price point no matter what.
-
I understand that Eric Hider recommends and gives great support to those using a Mac Mini with his Tranquility DAC. My question is why wouldn't a Linux solution as discussed in this thread by NYC Paramedic be a better solution than the Mac?:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=62364.0
From everything I have read the tweaking of the Mac Mini is essentially removing all possible processes not directly involved with audio playback and killing the mechanical noise of HDDs by replaceing the spinning disc with a SSD unit. Nick's (NYC Paramedic) Linux solution has nearly zero overhead and that includes the total lack of video and drive management since he is porting the music over the network.
I would appreciate any light that could be shed on the subject.
Best,
Ed
edit: I should have read the earlier posts in this thread, I see that the subject has already come up. I would still like to read Eric's take on this.
-
I understand that Eric Hider recommends and gives great support to those using a Mac Mini with his Tranquility DAC. My question is why wouldn't a Linux solution as discussed in this thread by NYC Paramedic be a better solution than the Mac?: From everything I have read the tweaking of the Mac Mini is essentially removing all possible processes not directly involved with audio playback and killing the mechanical noise of HDDs by replaceing the spinning disc with a SSD unit. Nick's (NYC Paramedic) Linux solution has nearly zero overhead and that includes the total lack of video and drive management since he is porting the music over the network. I would appreciate any light that could be shed on the subject.
Its got to do with the hardware in the mini. Pollution from switching supplies, hash from the video display in notebooks etc can make its way into the dac and double blind listening tests showed it caused problems. The mini is built from a single block of aluminium which shields the dac. It has no built in display. That is just two reasons - others exist. There is no reason better hardware can not be built but that would not be readily available. To make things easy it is simpler to just recommend the mini.
Thanks
Bill
-
Ed to answer your question -
Removing computer processes from the computer equation typically results in sonic improvements for sure. But the computer's layout, parts and overall construction are arguably much more important regarding the "cause and effect" to sound quality differentiation between computers. For example: If you have an older Mac Mini and do all sorts of various tweaks such as removing many of the program loads, add an SSD internal drive, add more memory and even add a custom outboard power supply. That solution will actually LOSE sonically in a head/head comparison to just a basic 2010 Mac Mini computer, without those added tweaks :o
What this seems to indicate is that careful spectral distribution of noise patterns and internal power supply layouts along with the internal shielding and lower noise parts are the top ticket to getting the absolute performance in the sonic domain. We strongly suspect that goal of low power consumption and bus speed improvements in the latest 2010 Mac Mini gave us these sonic merits. As Bill Hobba pointed out in his post - Apple's decision to mil the Mini's enclosure from a solid block of Aluminum certainly didn't hurt regarding the shielding capabilities of the latest Mac Mini design :thumb:
So, what does this say regarding building a Linux solution that is above the 2010 Mac Mini? If you can emulate the 2010 Mini's latest power supply spectral distribution and the internal faraday shielding and the internal noise reduction of it's various ultra low power / noise components and the buss layouts and the USB connectivity layouts and the enclosure itself and subtract some program loads due to the Linux then you might possibly have a solution that is slightly superior to the 2010 Mac Mini...perhaps.
Cheers
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
-
Eric/Bill,
Thank you for your responses, much appreciated.
Best,
Ed
-
I made my MacMini/Tranquility decision prior to Apple introducing the new Mini. My old Mini is tweaked-out to the max with the new Bolder external power supply and every single tweak I made added sonically to the performance. If a stock 2010 Mini is superior to my unit I wonder how much better it would be tweaked-out? Sounds like the making of a good shoot-out???
Ken
-
Hi All
Just got back from an initial checkout of the Tranquility. This was simply using a windows notebook to get a quick initial impression.
Ok some quick impressions - Dianna Krall - excellent - fluid, dynamic, musical and no trace of digital 'glare' or upper midrange issues I had with another DAC. The output stage does not sound like a solid state. Tom Jones Praise and Blame - it sounded very very good - you could almost believe Tom Jones was there with you. Without any comparison to other DAC's it sounded excellent.
It will be down at the guy whose reference system I checked it out on for at least the next few days while I contact Eric Hider to get my Mac Mini set up optimally for this DAC. The owner of the reference system, Mike, will continue to use it and come to grips with its sound. We will then arrange a listening session between Mike, Clay Geisler a DAC designer acquaintance, and myself to seriously evaluate the Tranquility and a new DAC Clay is working on - the PDX. Will keep you guys posted.
Thanks
Bill
-
If a stock 2010 Mini is superior to my unit I wonder how much better it would be tweaked-out? Sounds like the making of a good shoot-out???
Ken
The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.
I spent more than a couple of hours last night listening to some different configurations of my friend Darrell McCombs' system. We were trying some new things that I have coming as well as some footers being made by another local audio company - An Audible Difference. While we had success on multiple levels, the obvious stand outs of the evening were the Tranquility DAC through Darrell's tweaked 2010 Mini. He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.
I am pretty much computer stoopid anyway, but from what I understand the software end of the tweaks is not for the faint of (experienced) heart. I am encouraging these guys to offer modification services for the new Mini. I know that the purpose built stripped XP Zotac ION based PC that I built (running the excellent AQvox ASIO driver) is to be replaced very soon by a Burke/McCombs MacMini. I have struggled to get my PC sounding good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the full blown 2010 B/McC Mini.
Dammit! Crow for breakfast again... oh, well. :duh:
Dave
-
So, does anybody have any bright ideas on how a headless mini may be used with a Windows laptop as a client to control playback, playlists, etc.?
Thanks,
Jim
-
The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.
I spent more than a couple of hours last night listening to some different configurations of my friend Darrell McCombs' system. We were trying some new things that I have coming as well as some footers being made by another local audio company - An Audible Difference. While we had success on multiple levels, the obvious stand outs of the evening were the Tranquility DAC through Darrell's tweaked 2010 Mini. He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.
I am pretty much computer stoopid anyway, but from what I understand the software end of the tweaks is not for the faint of (experienced) heart. I am encouraging these guys to offer modification services for the new Mini. I know that the purpose built stripped XP Zotac ION based PC that I built (running the excellent AQvox ASIO driver) is to be replaced very soon by a Burke/McCombs MacMini. I have struggled to get my PC sounding good, but it doesn't hold a candle to the full blown 2010 B/McC Mini.
Dammit! Crow for breakfast again... oh, well. :duh:
Dave
Dave,
You are too kind... But I have to admit, the MacMini, with the right software and hardware mods blows the stock MacMini away, and the stock MacMini is terrific.
The Tranquility DAC is fantastic as well. Together, they make an incredible sounding front end at great price.
Darrell
-
So, does anybody have any bright ideas on how a headless mini may be used with a Windows laptop as a client to control playback, playlists, etc.?
Thanks,
Jim
Jim
Setup Sharing on the Mac and run a VNC client on the Windows laptop. RealVNC is a good VNC client.
Darrell
-
I have been reading these recent threads with a great deal of interest. I recently jumped into the mac mini music server platform and am in the market for a new DAC to mate with it. I was headed down the Firewire Weiss/Metric Halo DAC path until discovering this Tranquility component review topic.
I am looking for confirmation that the new 2010 Mac Mini is objectively, black and white, significantly better than an optimized 2009 Mac Mini?
I think Ken/Bigfish and I have the exact same mac mini configuration and before I make another upgrade/change, I wish to confirm it is a certain, tangible improvement.
It is just intuitive to me (and I think many others) that the new 2010 mac mini model with on board power supply, detuned power consumption, et al would be a step in the wrong direction for an ideal audiophile/optimized computer platform.
Thanks
Kenreau
Quote from Eric
...If you have an older Mac Mini and do all sorts of various tweaks such as removing many of the program loads, add an SSD internal drive, add more memory and even add a custom outboard power supply. That solution will actually LOSE sonically in a head/head comparison to just a basic 2010 Mac Mini computer, without those added tweaks
Quote from dBe;
...The answer is that it is beyond stunning! The stock 2010 Mini is better than a tweaked prior configuration and a fully tweaked 2010 is amazing.
He and another friend, Kevin Burke, have come up with series of mods that transform the Mini to a sonic marvel. Kevin does the physical modifications to the Mini and Darrell has created a new software configuration (well beyond everything I have seen in print) and written scripts for the Mini to hit the sonics that I heard last night. Kicks the old Minis' ass, BIG TIME.
-
Darrel,
Thanks, I'll have to look into that and make sure Real VNC will work with my screen reader software.
Thanks,
Jim
-
It is just intuitive to me (and I think many others) that the new 2010 mac mini model with on board power supply, detuned power consumption, et al would be a step in the wrong direction for an ideal audiophile/optimized computer platform.
Thanks
Kenreau
Kenreau. I get it. I'm there with you. What you say is logical. It is totally intuitive that an onboard power supply is a step in the wrong direction - that is until you hear the new 2010 Mini. What they have done with the new Mini defies logic. It is a proverbial blivit: 10 pounds of s__t in a 2 pound bag. There is NO WAY that they can put all of that performance in that small of a package, but they have done it. That part I do not get.
All I can say is until you hear a fully optimized SSD equipped 2010 Mini compared to a fully optimized SSD equipped former generation Mini, you are completely entitled to your intuition and beliefs. Wrong, but entitled. I didn't believe it, either. That is what I mean about eating crow.
Dave
-
Further to my previous post about my initial impressions of the Tranquility; the guy whose reference system we tried it out on did some further investigation when I left and this is what he posted in an unrelated thread on another forum (it was about a DAC shootout we were at):
Bill had a normal Laptop and I think he was using I River (it was J River) software. First impressions were ! well a little underwhelming. Nice and smooth to be sure , top end seemed a little down to me and the bass was Ahh lazy ! It did nothing wrong but it did nothing right either ! the ConnorNM24 (thats the systems reference DAC - a heavily tweaked and synergised pcm1704 dac) killed it in my view. OK so bill leaves and I thought I’d just drop my Compaq laptop on and feed it some of my wav files from I tunes. HOLY SMOKE what just happened, It was instantly competitive with the NM24. This little alloy brick thingy must be very sensitive to what USB signal it’s fed. More on this device soon when we feed it with a Mac mini ( as recommended by Eric Hider ) It did however trail behind the NM24 overall and particularly in the bass , being still a touch inarticulate and rounded. Resolution was very good with no hardness or detectable digititis evident Perhaps with MacMini integration we could have a real competitor. Although Mr Hider has’nt stated what DAC is being used it sounds very 1704 ish to me.
What is happening now is I will be investigating optimizing my Mac Mini and see exactly how close we can get it to the systems reference DAC - or maybe even exceed it. Watch this space.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi guys,
I've been asked if I am still offering my special discount to AC members. The answer is yes! Your $200.00 discount on a Tranquility is still in effect. Thanks again to everyone here for all of your wonderful support. I look forward to meeting many members who are going to be at the upcoming RMAF show. :thumb:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
-
I am looking for confirmation that the new 2010 Mac Mini is objectively, black and white, significantly better than an optimized 2009 Mac Mini?
I'm wondering the same thing, since I own the Late 2009 Mac Mini.
I think it would help if Eric, dBe, and anyone else with 2010 experiences share exactly which past Mini model they've done comparisons with (and how both models were modded). I was under the impression that the 2009's sounded better than earlier models too. So, are these 2010 being compared to the 09's, or to older Mini's?
As usual, Wikipedia has great info with all the Mac Mini release specs over the years. This is a good place to find out which Mini you have if you don't remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini
-
I'm wondering the same thing, since I own the Late 2009 Mac Mini.
I think it would help if Eric, dBe, and anyone else with 2010 experiences share exactly which past Mini model they've done comparisons with (and how both models were modded). I was under the impression that the 2009's sounded better than earlier models too. So, are these 2010 being compared to the 09's, or to older Mini's?
As usual, Wikipedia has great info with all the Mac Mini release specs over the years. This is a good place to find out which Mini you have if you don't remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini
Mamba,
A friend had an Early 2009 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app
I then bought a Mid-2010 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app
We played the exact same rips (.flac at the time) off of the same external hard drive. The 2010 was much cleaner, had a quieter noise floor, better soundstage, etc.
My friend ended up selling me his Early 2009 model and he bought the Mid-2010 model. I now use the 2009 Mini to host my web sites and do some Web Development. It cost him ~$300 to make the upgrade, but he is glad he did. He says it was a no-brainer.
Darrell
-
Mamba,
A friend had an Early 2009 MacMini, Intel 40GB SSD, 4GB Ram, Play.app
Thanks Darrell :thumb:
Do you know if the Early 2009 was running Snow Leopard (10.6.x), or the 10.5 that it came with?
-
Mamba,
Both had 10.6.4 with the latest updates installed.
Darrell
-
It seems that Eric Hider will be releasing a non-USB Tranquility DAC (With SPDIF) in the near future!
-
"Turn your journaling off -
Open "Disk Utility" (located in Applications/Utilities).
Highlight the name Macintosh HD on the left side of choices
To disable journaling, press Option key on keyboard, WHILE HOLDING ON TO the OPTION key - select disable journaling from the top of your screen on the file menu."
I tried this on a 2.66 Quad MAC Pro and the computer kept crashing.
I.
-
I tried this on a 2.66 Quad MAC Pro and the computer kept crashing.
Are you using the Mac Pro as a dedicated music server with a fresh installation of the current operating system? With the monitor and keyboard removed, and no third-party software running?
I ask because a Mac Pro is pretty expensive to dedicate as a music server, but if the computer isn't dedicated to the task then there are likely multiple background processes running that will degrade the audio, making the tweaks less relevant.
I don't know why the computer would crash when you turn journaling off. I'm not even sure that it's crashing when you switch it off or at some point afterward. How reproducible is it?
If the Mac Pro is a dedicated music server, I would sell it and get a new Mac Mini. If the Mac Pro is not dedicated as a music server I wouldn't worry about the tweaks that Eric suggested since there are probably a lot of other things that could degrade the sound and the tweaks may not make a major difference.
-
It seems that Eric Hider will be releasing a non-USB Tranquility DAC (With SPDIF) in the near future!
I'd try one of those.
-
I'd try one of those.
Ditto here. Would it offer usb as well as spdif or just spdif?
-
Hi Art,
I'll take a guess and say probably just spdif as dbal seems to be one of the few companies who recognizes that you can only have one fully optimized interfaces and that switches, relays, etc, all have a sonic penalty.
-- Jim
-
Thanks Jim! :thumb: Hope all is well with you.
-
It seems that Eric Hider will be releasing a non-USB Tranquility DAC (With SPDIF) in the near future!
Meaning USB in, SPDIF out ?
-
Meaning USB in, SPDIF out ?
That wouldn't be a DAC.
-
That wouldn't be a DAC.
So it wouldn't, what market is there for SPDIF out of computers ?
-
Not sure what this means. SPDIF out of a computer or via some sort of USB or FireWire converter?
Plenty of solutions for both.
-
SPDIF in with balanced outputs would be snazzy.
-
So it wouldn't, what market is there for SPDIF out of computers ?
The majority of folks who would want to use or who currently use a stand-alone DAC for an audiophile stereo system are using a SPDIF input to the DAC, primarily from a CD player/transport and in some instances from a computer (but this is not common since computers don't come equipped with SPDIF output and not a lot of people buy the I/O cards to add it).
So, a SPDIF input dB Audio DAC is likely to attract 2-4 times the number of potential customers compared to a USB-only DAC. I think USB as implemented by the Tranquility DAC is the way to go, but a lot of folks just want to feed discs into a player and not mess with ripping and computer configuration.
-
Are you using the Mac Pro as a dedicated music server with a fresh installation of the current operating system? With the monitor and keyboard removed, and no third-party software running?
I ask because a Mac Pro is pretty expensive to dedicate as a music server, but if the computer isn't dedicated to the task then there are likely multiple background processes running that will degrade the audio, making the tweaks less relevant.
I don't know why the computer would crash when you turn journaling off. I'm not even sure that it's crashing when you switch it off or at some point afterward. How reproducible is it?
If the Mac Pro is a dedicated music server, I would sell it and get a new Mac Mini. If the Mac Pro is not dedicated as a music server I wouldn't worry about the tweaks that Eric suggested since there are probably a lot of other things that could degrade the sound and the tweaks may not make a major difference.
The comp is my work computer in my office. I just thought i'd try it (turn journaling off).
-
Just my 0.02 cents'! I have found DACs based on simple 16-bit (Altmann Attraction) or 20-bit (LFD DAC2 - only 100 pieces made) technology the most analog sounding. You don't really need more than 16-bits to play redbook. From what I am observing, the more bits there are the harder it is to implement and this may have something to do with the fact that the ESS Sabre is very much in your face, with a plethora of details. I briefly heard the WS4 DAC2 and while I was impressed with the detail retrieval personally I rather doubt I could live with a DAC that is so detailed. I found fatigue set in on longer listening. One of the best digital replay that I have ever experienced was with the Altmann and the LFD DAC2.
-
The comp is my work computer in my office. I just thought i'd try it (turn journaling off).
Got it. The system maintenance software Cocktail (among others) also offers an option to turn journaling off and on. Maybe that would work better? Or something in your particular system just doesn't like the change. It's puzzling. :scratch:
-
So, a SPDIF input dB Audio DAC is likely to attract 2-4 times the number of potential customers compared to a USB-only DAC. I think USB as implemented by the Tranquility DAC is the way to go, but a lot of folks just want to feed discs into a player and not mess with ripping and computer configuration.
No! I have a no spin zone in my room. All the monkeying around to obtain a MAC computer and then adjust this and that with some non-Squeezecenter software is what burned my hiney about this USB version. I want my ripped library to go through this dac using SC and that handy software. And if I get a Touch then I can handle some slightly higher rez material. That Mac thing was for the birds! :banghead:
-
No! I have a no spin zone in my room. All the monkeying around to obtain a MAC computer and then adjust this and that with some non-Squeezecenter software is what burned my hiney about this USB version. I want my ripped library to go through this dac using SC and that handy software. And if I get a Touch then I can handle some slightly higher rez material. That Mac thing was for the birds! :banghead:
I actually wasn't directing my general observations at anyone. No doubt there are many particular reasons that folks want a SPIDF input. :thumb:
-
still reading through all the posts but I am very interested in setting up a Mini-centric system. Currently streaming from iMac -> MW Transporter via ethernet, all rips from redbook CDs in FLAC, and I am still happy with the sound I am getting, but am interested in simplifying a bit. I've been contemplating getting a Mac-mini to use as a music server/HTPC for a couple of years, and all this activity in this thread is pushing me more in that direction. Anyone care to comment who has made the move from MW Transporter? File format preference seems to be .aiff for this set-up, or am I wrong on that and FLAC is just as good? Would having the mini hooked up to an LCD TV eliminate the advantages of having a monitor-less system, or would the physical distance be sufficient to reduce the interference? PM's are welcomed, and as always thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Greg
-
still reading through all the posts but I am very interested in setting up a Mini-centric system. Currently streaming from iMac -> MW Transporter via ethernet, all rips from redbook CDs in FLAC, and I am still happy with the sound I am getting, but am interested in simplifying a bit. I've been contemplating getting a Mac-mini to use as a music server/HTPC for a couple of years, and all this activity in this thread is pushing me more in that direction. Anyone care to comment who has made the move from MW Transporter? File format preference seems to be .aiff for this set-up, or am I wrong on that and FLAC is just as good? Would having the mini hooked up to an LCD TV eliminate the advantages of having a monitor-less system, or would the physical distance be sufficient to reduce the interference? PM's are welcomed, and as always thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Greg
Greg, I'm going down the exact same path.
As the latest Macmini apparently out performs a fully tricked out earlier mini then I'm going to just get the regular Macmini with 4GB of memory. I'll convert all the FLAC files to aiff and use the Macmini as a headless unit, and use remote desktop from my iMac when I need to. The consensus appears to be that using Pure with iTunes is the optimum cost/performance solution. I'll then use my iPad as the remote to run iTunes off the mini.
I'll hook all this up to the Tranquility DAC.
This is the plan, I want to start implementing this in the next few days or so - lets keep in touch.
Phil
-
Greg & Phil,
That looks like where I'm headed too, just waiting for the high res version. I'm using a Jkeny modded HiFace (battery pwrd) from my Mac mini now, feeding the bnc input on an EE DAC. The EE is very good, but the original plan was to use it in a second system.
Randy
-
I just found a new (to me) way to improve the sound from my Mac Mini to my Tranquility DAC: turn off the IR receiver. I thought I had looked thoroughly for a way to do that, but today I was surprised to stumble across it. It's in the System Preferences panel, under Security settings, in the General tab: at the bottom is a check box to "Disable remote infrared receiver".
My Tranquility DAC is connected to a USB port shared with the IR receiver, and now that it's off the sound is more fluid and smooth, with some hash/grit in the upper treble removed. No negative effects--just better music.
(The other set of USB ports seem to be shared with an internal hub, so avoid those since the one shared with the IR receiver seems to be on its own, maybe better isolated?)
-
still reading through all the posts but I am very interested in setting up a Mini-centric system. Currently streaming from iMac -> MW Transporter via ethernet, all rips from redbook CDs in FLAC, and I am still happy with the sound I am getting, but am interested in simplifying a bit. I've been contemplating getting a Mac-mini to use as a music server/HTPC for a couple of years, and all this activity in this thread is pushing me more in that direction. Anyone care to comment who has made the move from MW Transporter? File format preference seems to be .aiff for this set-up, or am I wrong on that and FLAC is just as good? Would having the mini hooked up to an LCD TV eliminate the advantages of having a monitor-less system, or would the physical distance be sufficient to reduce the interference? PM's are welcomed, and as always thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Greg
Greg:
I owned a fully modded ModWright Transporter with the Black Treasures and EML 5U4G Mesh tubes. I sold the Transporter this spring as frankly I was tried of always chasing better sound with purchases of the latest and greatest tube(s) to hit the market. As you have a ModWright Transporter you know the quality and full bodied sound the unit delivers. I switched to a teaked-out Mac Mini (2009 model) (SS Hard drive, 4 GB of Ram, Bolder Linear Power Supply and all recommended tweaks to improve the sound) driving a Tranquility DAC via the DB Audio Labs USB Cable. Everything in this hobby is a matter of personal preference but I prefer the sound of this system to my previous system dominated by the ModWright Transporter. I still have the detailed sound quality, great - deep soundstage and the music really does give me the sense that I could be listening to music played on a quality turntable.
My music files were converted from .flac to .aiff and are now stored on a fire wire external DAC. Eric Hider definitely recommends you have nothing else connected to the USB ports other than the Tranquility DAC. I cannot answer your question about using your LCD TV as a monitor but am personally looking forward to purchasing an IPod to control my Mini.
Ken
-
Hi Ken-
Thanks for your reply. Since my EML fizzed out I haven't been too worried about the latest and greatest, I've put my favorite combination in and haven't changed anything for nearly 6 months now.
I sent Eric an email, shortly after my post in this thread, and within his VERY helpful reply he stated that it shouldn't have any effect as long as it was at least 6 inches away from the computer.
cheers,
Greg
-
Greg, I'm going down the exact same path.
As the latest Macmini apparently out performs a fully tricked out earlier mini then I'm going to just get the regular Macmini with 4GB of memory. I'll convert all the FLAC files to aiff and use the Macmini as a headless unit, and use remote desktop from my iMac when I need to. The consensus appears to be that using Pure with iTunes is the optimum cost/performance solution. I'll then use my iPad as the remote to run iTunes off the mini.
I'll hook all this up to the Tranquility DAC.
This is the plan, I want to start implementing this in the next few days or so - lets keep in touch.
Phil
and thanks for this too Phil... I'm all about the cost/performance solution. I will definitely keep in touch, as I am still a few months from making a move (I think). :green:
-
Hi folks
I just ordered a Tranquility and cable from Eric. It was a hard decision but I decided that Red book CD reproduction was more important to me than potential high res purchases in the future. My cd collection is unique and many of the cd's bring back memories and emotions from past times. I will never be able to get many of these titles in high res. I also don't want to deal with software drivers for async. usb. Since I already have a Mac mini and I have not seen a single negative comment about the Tranquility's sound, I bit the bullet and made the call. I will be upgrading from a Behringer DEQ2496 so I will be moving up quite a bit. I have recently upgraded the rest of my system to a Wyred4sound STI500, anticable speaker cables and GR Research OB7's with upgraded woofers, binding posts and platinum bypass caps.
Brian
-
Hi folks
I just ordered a Tranquility and cable from Eric. It was a hard decision but I decided that Red book CD reproduction was more important to me than potential high res purchases in the future. My cd collection is unique and many of the cd's bring back memories and emotions from past times. I will never be able to get many of these titles in high res. I also don't want to deal with software drivers for async. usb. Since I already have a Mac mini and I have not seen a single negative comment about the Tranquility's sound, I bit the bullet and made the call. I will be upgrading from a Behringer DEQ2496 so I will be moving up quite a bit. I have recently upgraded the rest of my system to a Wyred4sound STI500, anticable speaker cables and GR Research OB7's with upgraded woofers, binding posts and platinum bypass caps.
Brian
Brian,
You won't be disappointed. Eric and the guys at db Audio Labs have done a great job of capturing music in a box from the Redbook format. I was at a listening session last night with the local audio brain crust and we were all just grooving to the music. This is a bunch of diehard analog guys and NOBODY said let's put a piece of vinyl on the TT. The vinyl rig is a Sota Star Sapphire with an SME V Tonearm, top of the line Zyx cartridge into a Pass Labs preamp. Darrell's Tweaked Mac Mini into the Tranquility sounded just great. There was music happening and nobody was yearning for the vinyl.
Ya' dun good.
Dave
-
Hi folks
I just ordered a Tranquility and cable from Eric. It was a hard decision but I decided that Red book CD reproduction was more important to me than potential high res purchases in the future. My cd collection is unique and many of the cd's bring back memories and emotions from past times. I will never be able to get many of these titles in high res. I also don't want to deal with software drivers for async. usb. Since I already have a Mac mini and I have not seen a single negative comment about the Tranquility's sound, I bit the bullet and made the call. I will be upgrading from a Behringer DEQ2496 so I will be moving up quite a bit. I have recently upgraded the rest of my system to a Wyred4sound STI500, anticable speaker cables and GR Research OB7's with upgraded woofers, binding posts and platinum bypass caps.
Brian
I think you'll really like the Tranquility. I listed out all of the setup and adjustments that improved sound in my system here (many of them Eric's suggestions): http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.msg810025#msg810025
"Hi Rez" is to me the most ridiculous thing going in digital audio right now. I calculated the proportion of higher resolution files in my collection, and it was less than 2%. And the proportion of new music that I buy that is higher than Redbook resolution is even less so far this year. Additionally, a lot of those higher resolution files are faked: some sites just upsample them from standard files.
I had a PS Audio DAC III with Cullen modifications before I got the Tranquility, and so I could play higher resolution files at that point. I never noticed a tremendous difference. I think I heard an improved sound with some of them, but to play them I had to change the output settings in Audio Midi Setup, restart my player, and use the optical output from my MacBook (before I got the mini). That can be mitigated with different software and DACs that handle higher resolution over USB, but the end result is marginally better sound from music I rarely listen to.
The Tranquility DAC elevated the sound quality of my CD resolution music above the level of anything I played using the PS Audio DAC, so the whole issue has become irrelevant to me.
-
"Hi Rez" is to me the most ridiculous thing going in digital audio right now. I calculated the proportion of higher resolution files in my collection, and it was less than 2%.
Just because you don't own much hirez doesn't make it "the most ridiculous thing going in digital audio right now". It's quite sublime when done well, really. And Eric is using his magic to make a higher end hirez DAC next. Not ridiculous at all. Yes, redbook is way underrated...but good 24/192 is quite amazing...too. :)
-
Just because you don't own much hirez doesn't make it "the most ridiculous thing going in digital audio right now". It's quite sublime when done well, really. And Eric is using his magic to make a higher end hirez DAC next. Not ridiculous at all. Yes, redbook is way underrated...but good 24/192 is quite amazing...too. :)
I said it is ridiculous to me—not to you or anyone else. I gave my reasons. Your mileage may vary.
-
There was music happening and nobody was yearning for the vinyl.
Ya' dun good.
Dave
This a great testimony and affirmation of how good the Tranquility DAC is and of how close the gap now stands between analog and digital. Way to go!
-
I have been exchanging emails with Mr Tranquility (Eric Hider) regarding my quandary whether to stick to the Tranquility with USB implementation or wait for his SPDIF version and his advice has surely steered me into the decision I will soon be making. With his permission, I am posting his comments as I feel this will help many AC members in helping them decide which interface to choose between (USB or SPDIF):
"The Tranquility will playback all high rez from a computer but the computer sends a re-calculated 16 bit signal to the Tranquility (automatically). Hence, the playback is at Redbook resolution as you stated. As far as internet radio, so long as your computer's USB output is a typical USB standard the processor in your computer will automatically create a 16 bit resolution and send it to the Tranquility dac.
In regard to SPDIF, you should think of that method as a very complicated signal system. SPDIF works by interleaving or "tangling" the clock and music data together which then flow down the SPDIF and have to be untangled on the other side. Now we have to pay serious attention to both clocks on each side of this transmission and sync them up with ultimate precision. Jitter is everywhere and really ugly in this format. The differences between SPDIF vary dramatically because of this overtly complicated transmission system. Ever see those really expensive outboard "Rubidium" clocks that you can implement between cost no object SPDIF CD transports and DACs?Well, now you know why ;-) In regard to USB. once you've utilized a decent receiver circuit inside of the dac and have a properly designed USb cable you've exceeded a SPDIF's complicated issues. Of course, there are still plenty of USB implementations that can fall short just from a poor receiver or USB cable implementation too. Care is needed in each transmission format. SPDIF in general is hugely more complicated though. This is why we went with USB ourselves. It is easier to get superior sonic performance."
I must say that Eric is a class act, very knowledgeable and approachable. I will soon be placing my order for a Tranquility DAC. Any guesses on which implementation I will choose? :D
-
Brian,
You won't be disappointed. Eric and the guys at db Audio Labs have done a great job of capturing music in a box from the Redbook format. I was at a listening session last night with the local audio brain crust and we were all just grooving to the music. This is a bunch of diehard analog guys and NOBODY said let's put a piece of vinyl on the TT. The vinyl rig is a Sota Star Sapphire with an SME V Tonearm, top of the line Zyx cartridge into a Pass Labs preamp. Darrell's Tweaked Mac Mini into the Tranquility sounded just great. There was music happening and nobody was yearning for the vinyl.
Ya' dun good.
Dave
Until recently I would have described myself as a diehard objectivist- show me the spec's, bigger is better, yak,yak,yak! I was not enjoying my music and moved away from listening. After a period of time I realized how much I missed music in my life and that having good music reproduction would make me happier and more relaxed.
I started listening again but was unhappy with the sound and upgrading became a focus. At that point a friend and fellow music lover introduced me to AudioCircle. I decided that I would move towards a focus on sound quality and simplifying my system, which at that time was active tri amped and sounded... loud but not musical. I decided to trust other peoples judgement to help pick my new equipment. I am very happy with the new gear I have purchased and built. The Tranquility is the final major component in the chain and probably the most important. Testimonies like Dave's above are the reason I went with the Tranquility over other solutions. Music, pure and simple, which is what I need!
Happy Listening
Brian
-
A little on topic, I wondered if some of you can elaborate on interfacing with the MINI. Seems an ordinary wireless keyboard could be bettered with one having an integral touch pad. Then, there's the bluetooth and line of sight types, and wonder about the advantages of either ? Any suggestions ?
-
A little on topic, I wondered if some of you can elaborate on interfacing with the MINI. Seems an ordinary wireless keyboard could be bettered with one having an integral touch pad. Then, there's the bluetooth and line of sight types, and wonder about the advantages of either ? Any suggestions ?
It's best to turn off bluetooth and wifi to reduce RF noise in the MacMini. For example, I connect it by Ethernet to a WiFi router across the room and control it via Screen Sharing from another Mac. You could also control it with the Remote app on an iPhone, iPod Touch, or iPad. And it's possible to setup screen sharing to a Windows computer as well (requires background software running on the MacMini, I believe).
Once I set the MacMini to open iTunes on startup and initiate screen sharing, I can run it without a monitor, keyboard, WiFi, or bluetooth.
-
I assume it has an AD1865 Dac chip, I can't think of any other chip available that works with NOS ?
-
thanks for the input newzooreview. I believe you need Leopard or Snow Leopard to perform screen sharing ? So bluetooth or remote gaming keyboards are bad news ? And, using the Mini wirelessly as opposed to hard wire thru ethernet cabling, is not the best ?
-
I am still experimenting with footers for my Tranquility and received some Baby Booties from Herbies Audio Labs yesterday. They replaced three EdenSound TerraStone footers and I was floored by the transformation. When I order the Booties I wasn't thinking to use them with the DAC but they were smaller than I expected so I thought I'd at least give them a try since they weren't going to work with my amp. Much of the music I listened to last night seemed dramatically transformed...with emphahsis on 'dramatic.' These little guys must be doing their job well and allowing that much more of the music through. More space between the notes, an even more realistic tone to instruments, etc. Charles Lloyd's new record sounded especially riveting after switching out the TerraStones. I've owned many of the Herbies Audio Labs products over the years and have always been impressed, I'm sure glad that I lucked into the Tranquility/Baby Bootie combination.
-
Does The Tranquility run hot? There does not appear to be an "On\Off" switch at the rear, suggesting you leave it on 24/7?
-
:D the dac runs cool,24/7.....what the heck are baby-booties ???? :D
-
:D the dac runs cool,24/7.....what the heck are baby-booties ???? :D
http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm
-
My Tranquility DAC is connected to a USB port shared with the IR receiver, and now that it's off the sound is more fluid and smooth, with some hash/grit in the upper treble removed. No negative effects--just better music.
newzooreview,
Can you describe which of the 4 ports on the 2010 mini is the isolated one that is shared with the IR receiver?
I'm anticipating the arrival of my 2010 mini anyday now and it would be helpful to know which port to start with as I'm a complete newcomer to the Mac world.
Thanks,
Jim
-
Jim, I'll chime in. I just got my 2010 Mac mini installed this weekend (replacing a 2009). I found that the USB port on the far left (as you stand facing the front of the mini) is the one that shares the IR receiver. That's where I installed my USB to my box modded HiFace and since I don't use the IR, shut off the IR receiver (thanks newzooreview and all).
I had the Mercury SSD from OWC installed, as well as 8gig of RAM (and got the 2.67 processor). I'm running in 64 bit mode, and find that it indeed does sound better, a little bit in all respects, in 64 bit mode.
For now, I'm feeding the bnc digi input of the EE Dac; sounds pretty darn good.
I'm anxious to get the high-res version of the dbaudio DAC when its comes out :thumb:!
Best,
Randy
-
Hi Randy,
Thanks for the info! My mini came today, so tomorrow I should be delving into it and trying a Mac for the first time since 1985 (which was the original Mac with 512k and a floppy drive :-)).
Anybody know how to get this thing apart so I can get the SSD installed>
Something tells me this is going to be fun!
-- Jim
-
perhaps I missed it, as I did not explore the entire thread, but how does this dac fair against the minimax?
Looks like both have earned a lot of praise and attention here on AC.
-
newzooreview,
Can you describe which of the 4 ports on the 2010 mini is the isolated one that is shared with the IR receiver?
I'm anticipating the arrival of my 2010 mini anyday now and it would be helpful to know which port to start with as I'm a complete newcomer to the Mac world.
Thanks,
Jim
I don't have the new 2010 Mini (I have a 2010 mini purchased before the new version). But the way I figured it out was by using the System Profiler. If you choose "About This Mac" from the Apple menu in the top left corner, you'll get a small info screen. Click on "More Info" and it will open System Profiler. Click on "USB" at the bottom of the Hardware list on the left side, and you'll see the various services running on each USB port.
You have to open and close System Profiler each time you move the Tranquility connection to see an update of what it's being shared with. I chose the port that shared the IR and turned off the IR as I wrote earlier, and that worked best for me. Using the System Profiler you can play around with other options as well.
Hope that helps. :)
-
Hi Randy,
Thanks for the info! My mini came today, so tomorrow I should be delving into it and trying a Mac for the first time since 1985 (which was the original Mac with 512k and a floppy drive :-)).
Anybody know how to get this thing apart so I can get the SSD installed>
Something tells me this is going to be fun!
-- Jim
2010 Mac Mini Hard Drive replacement (haven't done this, but this goes through step by step with photos. Seems like the drive is a snug fit but slow and careful prevails).
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Repair/Installing-Mac-mini-Model-A1347-Hard-Drive-Replacement/3113/1
-
thanks for the input newzooreview. I believe you need Leopard or Snow Leopard to perform screen sharing ? So bluetooth or remote gaming keyboards are bad news ? And, using the Mini wirelessly as opposed to hard wire thru ethernet cabling, is not the best ?
I use Snow Leopard--I'm not sure when Screen Sharing was introduced, so maybe you're right.
I disabled Bluetooth and WiFi since I didn't need them and microwave transceivers (along with other electromagnetic emitters) near the USB are bad news. That's one of the reasons the Mini is good--small, quiet, and easy to use without a screen connected (another EM emitter) or keyboard (something else on the USB buss or something requiring bluetooth).
If running with WiFi or bluetooth is required in your setup (you don't have a laptop to control things with, or you can't run an Ethernet cable to the Mini) then the sound won't be bad. It's just a bit better if you can turn those things off.
-
perhaps I missed it, as I did not explore the entire thread, but how does this dac fair against the minimax?
Looks like both have earned a lot of praise and attention here on AC.
Apparently, the tranquility dac with new mac mini (with recommended config changes) is comparable to any transport / dac combo - price no object :thumb: jury is still out there ...
-
Apparently, the tranquility dac with new mac mini (with recommended config changes) is comparable to any transport / dac combo - price no object :thumb: jury is still out there ...
I have had the chance recently to do just that - compare it to some pretty expensive statement stuff that for example clobbered some top of the line uber expensive DCS stuff. The verdict was, and make no mistake about it, it was comparable. Just today we conducted a comparison with the Tranquility, the WFS DAC2 and a prototype of the DAC that is being developed specifically to beat that statement DAC. The WFS was out of its league - no contest. But the Tranquility and the prototype were comparable. The difference was the Tranquility had a dryer more neutral sound while the prototype was fuller. In quality terms it was hard to separate although we did tend to prefer the prototype. But they were comparable 100% for sure. And that prototype is quite a bit more expensive than the Tranquility.
Thanks
Bill
-
I recently had a conversation with one of my friends who is pulling the trigger to purchase a Tranquility DAC and new Mac Mini. As I did so months ago prior to purchasing a Tranquility and Mac Mini he has put quite a bit of research into his decision. My friend made a observation to me that I believe is true: "the only people that make negative comments about The Tranquility DAC are ones that have not tried it." Yes, it is only USB and no it is not truly a hi-rez DAC, it just a fantastic, musical, piece of gear. Whenever Eric announces he has a new and improved version of The Tranquility he can sign me up.
Ken
-
:D Bigfish,get ready to 'sign-up' :lol: it's more than just in the wind now :D
-
:D Bigfish,get ready to 'sign-up' :lol: it's more than just in the wind now :D
Perhaps an RMAF debut? Eric?
-
As I understand - Eric is bringing the Sig Tranquility at RMAF ...
According to Eric, the New Mac Mini as a transport coupled with their DAC has bridged the sonic gap between digial and analog ... in some way this set up is a tweaker's delight as there are so many ways to tweak the mini and all the cables and isolation devices ... for continual performance upgrades ...
Perhaps an RMAF debut? Eric?
-
Perhaps an RMAF debut? Eric?
Just wait...
:green:
Dave
-
....we conducted a comparison with the Tranquility, the WFS DAC2 and a prototype of the DAC that is being developed specifically to beat that statement DAC.
Thanks
Bill
Bill, what is the "statement DAC" that you refer to above?
thanks, ed
-
Bill, what is the "statement DAC" that you refer to above?
It is a heavily tweaked commercial PCM1704 DAC containing uber expensive stuff like Duelund capacitors. Even Eric will tell you he would love to use those capacitors but they are just so expensive it can't really be put in the Tranquility and sell at a sane price. Here is what the owner of the DAC says about it:
'But let me say the things a beast ! I’ve spent time with a full DCS stack and I can tell you the Connor24 smacks it down simple as that. The 24 is a DCS stack with a velvet glove.'
But it is now getting a bit old in the tooth and the owner has commissioned a new DAC called the PDX specifically designed to best it. The prototype right now is a bit below the statement DAC. The Tranquility has been compared to both these DAC's and it is comparable to both. The tweaked pcm1704 is a bit better than the Tranquility - but not by a lot - maybe 5-10% or so and that is being fed by a statement transport. Right now the Tranquility is about the same as the PDX with the Tranquility being quite dry and neutral - not unmusical mind you - but perhaps more faithful to the source. The PDX is more organic and fuller sounding and perhaps not quite as true to the source and neutral. But this was an apples to oranges comparison since the PDX does not have a USB input right now. The full production version will have a USB input and that is expected to be available next week and a new comparison will be done. That said the PDX will cost about 1.5 times the price of the Tranquility and there will be options like Duelund capacitors that will make it 3-4 times the price. For the money the Tranquility simply can't be beat. I suspect the fully tricked out PDX will best it, but not by much and not for anywhere near the price. And the Tranquility has a different signature than the PDX so personal preference comes into it - but regardless the Tranquility will be comparable 100% for sure. In fact I wasn't there at the time but the owner of the reference system mentioned he had been experimenting with different types of music and preferred the Tranquility on some types of music. It is probably much fairer to say it is a personal preference thing depending on what you listen to which you prefer. I intend to get a PDX and keep both for that exact reason.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi all!
Since it’s been half a year since this forum convinced me to give the tranquility a try, high time to give something back, that is: my take on the tranquility DAC.
In short:
At first I wasn’t blown away by the tranquility. It was really good, but not better than my Shanling CD-T80 (with Western electric 396A NOS tubes). In my opinion the Shanling is really good, but I expected the Tranquility to be better. Fast forward two months later and I am completely blown away by the tranquility, or to put it more accurately by the music it produces, or to put it even more accurate by the way in which it transforms zero's and one's in something else all together. The Shanling (and my CD’s) are gathering dust. What changed in those two months? See below.
In - not really all that - short:
Because of the praise that the tranquility received on this forum, I felt the tranquility could sound better, and because Eric offered great service and tips I started changing some things:
MAC tweaks
These seemed to have some effect
Speaker placement and room
In retrospect, the sound of the tranquility seemed to suffer more from the bad acoustics in my room than the shanling. Changing speaker placement helped, moving to a different apartment (not because of the acoustics, but it was an added benefit ;) ) helped a lot. Now I was at a point were the tranquility sounded slightly better than the Shanling.
Mac Mini
Adding a Mac Mini to the set up improved the sound considerably. At this point I was really happy with the sound. But the tranquility gave me the feeling that there was still music I wasn’t hearing:
Speakers
I started this nice hobby with Tannoy Saturn LCR speakers. And at the time these were still my main speakers. In my opinion these are really good budget speakers. But I decided that my speakers shouldn’t be on a budget, so I purchased used Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors. Wow. Now I finally heard what the tranquility was all about (and what these speakers are about).
So, there you have it: great sound, really enjoying the music. The Shanling in my opinion is a great CDP, but the tranquility is much better. I’ll give a few impressions of the sound, but I find it hard to describe sound so I’ll keep it short. The thing that strikes me most in this setup is the soundstage: the music fills the room effortlessly. All instruments all have their own space in my room. Voices sound great and are not overpowered by instruments. This aspect benefited a lot from the above mentioned changes. All in all the music has a really natural sound to it that is completely addictive. The way music is supposed to sound.
Time to sit back and listen to the music. All done upgrading… or am I? Although my setup sounds like magic to me, I'm thinking about upgrading my Vincent SV236 Hybrid integrated Amplifier for an All Tube Cayin A-100T. I am curious what this amplifier will sound like in my setup, and curiosity is what made me purchase the tranquility, so I'll probably give it a try. After that I’m on a budget again and I will enjoy the setup for years to come, like I am enjoying it now, only more so 8).
Thanks to all on the forum who convinced me through the posting of their experiences that the tranquility is a great DAC and thanks to Eric Hider for the great service.
Cheers,
Folker
The Netherlands
PS I started the DAC journey with the HRT Musicstreamer and Musicstreamer+. For the money these were very good and in my headphone (HD650) setup they sounded quite good. In my main setup they didn't come close to the Shanling CDP, and they were thrashed by the tranquility.
-
Hi Guys
OK previously I had been listening to my Tranquility on a friends reference system. I have now got it connected to my system. Not with the NAKSA which is my preferred amp, but a little Redgum I have which at $550.00 is staggeringly good value for money. I am using it because it has a remote volume and I don't have a pre amp. As good as that little Redgum is the NAKSA is at a different level. Anyway the Redgum IMHO is more than transparent enough to hear the differences in DAC's.
OK to the sound. The first thing I notice is a complete absence of digititus of any form. You relax more into the music. The WFS DAC I used previously had a slight sibilance issue IMHO. Interestingly when I listen to the Tranquility it is not so much getting rid of the sibilance as changing how it sounds. If the sibilance is there you still hear it but is does not seem to grate or glare - instead of clinching and saying thats not nice you go Ahhh. No coldness or anything like that - simply nice fluidity and liquidity. It seems to have exactly the same detail as the WFS which I find quite interesting since that is that DAC's strong point. Is it up to the standard of the best DAC I have ever heard - the Killer DAC? Afraid not. Comparable - yes but not quite as good. Is it a significant step up from anything in its price range? Without doubt. Would it be what Steve Garland, the maker of the killer DAC, calls making music? That's a hard one - to my ears - yes but I know Steve has heard a lot more stuff than me so maybe not to him. Anyway at $1295 it is amazing value. Right now the owner of the reference system I previously used it on, Mike Lenehan of Lenehan Audio (the maker of Lenehan Ml1's) and myself prefer a DAC he is working on, the PDX, which is still in prototype. But when finalized it will be about 50% more expensive than the Tranquility. Interestingly Mike has found some recordings that the Tranquility sounds better on. I conjecture this has to do with the quality of the recording. The Tranquility is dead neutral. If you have a crappy recording it sounds crappy - if it is good it sounds good. For some reason the PDX does not seem to be like that - crappy recordings do not sound as crappy. Anyway this is just conjecture - getting to the bottom of it will involve a lot more investigation.
Also I have just found out the signature version has been finalized and it is on its way over to Mike's to check out on his reference system. It is supposed to be a significant step up - we will find out. Just switched to some Dianna Krall - man does she sound so good on this DAC.
One thing I just discovered is that playing back from the MAC's internal drive is quite a good deal better than from an external USB drive. This probably explains why when we first tried it out using my USB drive it was rather ho hum. But when Mike tried it later with his machine using its hard drive - wow. Eric reckons using his recommended firewire drive it will be even better again. After finding this out both Mike and myself are ordering one.
Thanks
Bill
-
One thing I just discovered is that playing back from the MAC's internal drive is quite a good deal better than from an external USB drive. This probably explains why when we first tried it out using my USB drive it was rather ho hum. But when Mike tried it later with his machine using its hard drive - wow.
That seems to be the experience more and more hard-drive audio guys are having. From various forums and my own experiences, sound quality seems to vary quite a bit, from worst to best, possibly:
USB drive<FW drive=(?)internal SATA drive<e-SATA drive.
It's not clear how SSD's fit into the whole picture, but it would be too expensive for a large music collection anyway. I can say IME that without a doubt, moving from internal SATA drive to external e-SATA drive with its own power supply TRANSFORMED sound quality for me :o
There's an interesting link where somebody modified a Mac Mini with e-SATA and posted comparative results..
http://web.me.com/wheaties/Stuff./Stuff/Entries/2009/2/21_Mac_Mini_Mods_-_eSATA.html
-
reading this thread, this dac sonds very interesting. but i have found no info on the dac used? is there any inside pictures of it ?
i have found pictures of Weiss dac2, WFS dac, audio-gd dac , ayre dac but none of the tranquility?
any info on the upcoming tranquility signature differences?
cheers.
-
reading this thread, this dac sonds very interesting. but i have found no info on the dac used? is there any inside pictures of it ? i have found pictures of Weiss dac2, WFS dac, audio-gd dac , ayre dac but none of the tranquility? any info on the upcoming tranquility signature differences?
Here is a picture of the internals:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75402.280
I have a Tranquility signature being sent out today and it should arrive in a week or so. We will then do a comparison with another DAC an acquaintance is working on. Watch out for the review.
Thanks
Bill
-
I just got a set of four Herbie's Baby Booties to try under my Tranquility DAC. I wasn't expecting much, but I was surprised at how much the sound suffered. Things became dry, tinny, and thin and timbre suffered as well. I think I read somewhere above (or on another forum) that someone had good luck with them on the Tranquility, but it was a no go for me.
I suspect they cause problems because Eric has carefully placed some dampening inside the case, and he's essentially tuned away the negative affects of any resonances in the case using the stock feet. Changing the feet messes with the tuning he's done. Whether that's the case or not, I've put the stock rubber feet back on. And things sound good again.
For what it's worth, I've not found more elaborate power cords to help the Tranquility either. I tried a couple, but I went back to a $12 Volex because the others didn't improve things (they actually degraded the sound in one way or another). On my amps and preamp the nicer power cables can help, but I think that Eric has engineered the filtering on the Tranquility power supply to need little in the way of help from the power cable (e.g. a lot of cables provide a filtering effect).
So, live and learn.
Hebie's is here, http://herbiesaudiolab.net/bbootie.htm, and I'm going to try their Tenderfeet under my amp and preamp and power conditioner. Their service is quick, and they seem like great folks with very reasonably priced products. The fact that the Tranquility didn't benefit is more a credit to Eric's very careful and highly refined designing, I think, than of the quality and benefit of Herbie's Audio Lab products.
-
For what it's worth, I've not found more elaborate power cords to help the Tranquility either. I tried a couple, but I went back to a $12 Volex because the others didn't improve things (they actually degraded the sound in one way or another). On my amps and preamp the nicer power cables can help, but I think that Eric has engineered the filtering on the Tranquility power supply to need little in the way of help from the power cable (e.g. a lot of cables provide a filtering effect).
Your findings mimic ours here in the Burque Group. We've tried different cables on the Tranquility and though they sound different, they do not sound better. The power supply design on the Tranquility makes the effects of aftermarket cables mostly ineffective. It is my understanding that the Signature is going to have a different power supply topology.
Dave
-
So is the "Signature" version the new higher-rez DAC or is it a decked out version of the Tranquility?
-
So is the "Signature" version the new higher-rez DAC or is it a decked out version of the Tranquility?
No - it's a better version of their standard 44.1/16 bit DAC.
Thanks
Bill
-
Does anybody know if the standard Tranquility will be upgradable to the Signature?
-
The signature version is not high rez, but has a new analogue section (and possibly beefed up power supply). You can not upgrade from standard to signature as the pcb is different. But Eric said you can trade in your standard Tranquility for full purchase price and pay the difference. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
-
Hi guys,
I will be providing an overview of our new the Signature Edition Tranquility DAC and all of its associated details later this afternoon. :thumb:
dB Audio Labs - Eric Hider
-
Even better - if it was on your website ... :thumb:
Hi guys,
I will be providing an overview of our new the Signature Edition Tranquility DAC and all of its associated details later this afternoon. :thumb:
dB Audio Labs - Eric Hider
-
Is it afternoon yet? :D
My Virtue amp is in for upgrades, so I'm feeding my Tranquility into my ancient Logitech 2.1 speakers. $2000 transport/DAC into $50 speakers :lol: gotta say, I still hear the smooth and detailed sonics I've come to associate with the Tranquility.
-
Hi guys, although we planned on announcing the Tranquility Signature Edition at RMAF...questions are now being asked so here is a brief preliminary overview -
The Tranquility Signature Edition dac is our latest "top shelf" of our Tranquility NOS dac series.
Circuit enhancements: The Signature Edition is based around the same original dac chipset as utilized within the Tranquility but with MANY added enhancements. The interior circuit board and component layouts are entirely new. We've doubled the size of the power supply and added associated capacitance, enhanced the bridge with new rectifiers, tweaked the regulator circuits and further refined the electrical parameters throughout. MOST importantly, we have incorporated an innovative circuit that is BRAND NEW TO HIGH END Audio! It is situated just after the dac chipset and has a serious impact on improving a dac's inner most resolution. We are patenting it too! Don't expect to see this refinement in any other digital product anytime soon :rules:
Sonic attributes: As compared to the original Tranquility you will hear improvements to all music characterizations throughout the entire frequency range. The smallest characterizations that define the "inner soul" of music are more readily apparent. Some would label this as "more transparent sounding'" but we think the newfound character of this dac is something very unique to digital audio. Sound staging is also further focused. Dynamic contrasts are also more profound particularly in the lowest frequency registers. Can we say over the top dynamics from an NOS design :o Sophistication and delicacy are at levels that bring us even closer to our own absolute reference, analog mater tapes.
Exterior : the Tranquility Signature Edition dac will have a singular USB input just like the original Tranquility. The outputs will be RCA too. So, the casework is identical to the base Tranquility, except the front facia has additional milled writing after the word Tranquility saying; "Signature Edition" By using the identical case as the original Tranquility, we get to offer you guys this next level Uber design at a more reasonable price.
Pricing: Tranquility Signature Edition has a price of $2395 MSRP but initially launching the Signature with a special introductory $500 off sale of $1895. This introductory pricing already includes the $200 off AC discount. So, $1895 is your best price. It will be offered at this price for a VERY limited time too :wink:
"Trade-up program" : As good measure to our loyal Tranquility customers; who have supported us from the very beginning! We are offering them a "full purchase value" trade-up of your original Tranquility dac for just the difference in price between what you paid and the $1895 price. Example_ If you paid $1295 for your original dac, plus $600 gets you into the Signature dac. Hence the "full value" of your original purchase toward the Signature's current price. This applies ONLY to current Tranquility customers who have purchased their dac directly from dB Audio Labs. Trade-up dacs cannot have been modified or damaged. This trade-up program will be offered for a very limited time and is non-negotiable.
Open box special program ; As a good measure to those who want a killer deal on the original Tranquility, we will be offering a $995 deal for the dacs we receive on trade-in. All will be tested and re-certified with a full 3 year warranty. These deals will be limited to our supply of trade-ins and once those are gone the unique deal will be gone too. If you are interested in this offer I STRONGLY suggest you contact me directly to get on the waiting list. It will be a limited supply indeed.
Thanks again to everyone for your wonderful support here on AC. We are seriously excited to meet many of you at RMAF...and even more excited to let you hear the new Signature Edition Tranquility DAC :thumb:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
-
When will the Signature become available for those who wish to trade up?
-
Just got one. I haven't heard the original Tranquility but Eric said the SE is more resolving. My only concern was whether the increased resolution would induce listener fatigue in some way.
I'm happy to report that right out of the box, not a trace of glare or harshness, no listener fatigue whatsoever.
-
I just ordered a Signature Tranquility DAC along with the new Signature USB Essential Cable. I'll be comparing it directly with my current DAC, the W4S DAC-2. I'm very excited to get it and get listening. Talked with Eric on the phone and he's a great guy and we're lucky to have a guy like this in this industry. :)
-
A new SE USB cable too? Tell me it's more flexible :D that's my only gripe with the regular Essential
-
A new SE USB cable too? Or is it the regular Essential cable?
It's an updated version called the Signature Edition, like the new Signature Edition Tranquility DAC. I have the original Essential USB Cable right now and Eric told me about a new version and says it is a little more refined and smoother. :drool:
-
What is price on the new cable?
-
WOW! Wailea on Wednesdays
-
I just ordered a Signature Tranquility DAC along with the new Signature USB Essential Cable. I'll be comparing it directly with my current DAC, the W4S DAC-2. I'm very excited to get it and get listening. Talked with Eric on the phone and he's a great guy and we're lucky to have a guy like this in this industry. :)
I have directly compared the WFS DAC 2 to the Tranquility and preferred the Tranquility. Very interested to hear how you think it compares to the Signature.
Thanks
Bill
-
What is price on the new cable?
I believe it is $100 more than the current Essential cable on the Web site, but don't quote me. I'm trading in my current Essential Cable for the new one, but I'll have a chance to compare both since the new one is coming and I will have some time before I ship Eric the old one back. I was offered -$100 on the DAC since I already had the Essential cable, but Eric said I could get the new cable if I sent in the old Essential and split the difference. :)
I have directly compared the WFS DAC 2 to the Tranquility and preferred the Tranquility. Very interested to hear how you think it compares to the Signature.
Thanks
Bill
I've been reading your comments and they've been very interesting through your DAC shootout. The one thing I love about the DAC-2 is the amount of detail it presents, especially on high-resolution files (but not limited to). If this thing can let that, or more shine through while being smoother and more liquid, well, you'll find my jaw on the floor. And if the original Tranquility did all this, then my jaw might be permanently dislocated since this Signature Edition is a step up. :lol:
But I have high hopes as Eric sounds like he's got something very special on the table, after reading pretty much zero negative comments on the sound of the Tranquility and talking with him about his products on the phone. Eric was saying the Tranquility holds its own up to $5k to $6k DACs, and that this Signature Edition is comparable to the $10k range. I'm ready to take a ride. :)
-
I've been reading your comments and they've been very interesting through your DAC shootout. The one thing I love about the DAC-2 is the amount of detail it presents, especially on high-resolution files (but not limited to). If this thing can let that, or more shine through while being smoother and more liquid, well, you'll find my jaw on the floor. And if the original Tranquility did all this, then my jaw might be permanently dislocated since this Signature Edition is a step up. :lol: But I have high hopes as Eric sounds like he's got something very special on the table, after reading pretty much zero negative comments on the sound of the Tranquility and talking with him about his products on the phone. Eric was saying the Tranquility holds its own up to $5k to $6k DACs, and that this Signature Edition is comparable to the $10k range. I'm ready to take a ride. :)
You are correct. The one area the WFS is jaw dropping is the amount of detail it produces. Every single person who has heard it has been floored by it even if overall they don't particularly like it. Eric has built ESS Saber DAC's as well and will tell you the same thing - drop dead detail. He thought the Tranquility in this one area may be just slightly inferior. Now I have had it for a while I don't agree. I find the detail just as good and for some reason the detail seems to have greater slam. I find this particularly enjoyable because my speakers are Lenehan ML1's which are steel lined and have even further measures to reduce resonances. Notes stop dead in a way other speakers can't seem to manage. Slam in a recording really does sound special with these speakers. Of course it gets rid of some of the other issues I had such as sibilance but I must be fair and say except for guys around where I am no one else seems to hear it. The WFS is a bit cold and analytical to many and the Tranquility fixes that as well.
Yes the standard Tranquility is comparable to some $5K or so DAC's we compared it to but they were still better. I have a signature arriving soon and am very much looking forward to not only hearing it but comparing it to some of those more expensive DAC's. I have some acquaintances who are eagerly looking forward to comparing it to the best DAC they know - the Killer DAC which has gone toe to toe with some even much more expensive stuff.
Thanks
Bill
-
I read Eric's post, a few minutes agon, concerning the Tranquility SE and trade-up offer to existing Tranquility Owners. I have already sent him an e-mail this morning requesting him place my name on one of the SE's and will finalize the deal later today or next week when he returns from RMAF. The amazing thing about this is that I am totally happy with my existing Tranquility DAC. However, I trust Eric and since he is claiming the new SE is an old Tranquility on Steroids I have to take the plunge.
When I committed to go away from the streaming player I was previously using, early this year, to a computer/dac system the choices were seemingly limitless. I was sick and tired of dealing with Windows based computers and their issues, therefore I welcomed the thought of a Mac Mini based computer audio system. As you can tell I am very happy with my choices and if you read back through the many pages of this thread I believe you will conclude that the Tranquility is the heart or the soul of a Mac Mini/Fire Wire DAC/Essential USB Cable/Tranquility DAC System.
Ken
-
I'm definitely interested in one of the Trade In Units :)..please put me on the list.
Also, any advice from the forum members on Mac Minis, which model/upgrades/etc? I have read through the forums, but find the info confusing to say the least.
Thanks,
Morgan
-
I'm definitely interested in one of the Trade In Units :)..please put me on the list.
Also, any advice from the forum members on Mac Minis, which model/upgrades/etc? I have read through the forums, but find the info confusing to say the least.
Thanks,
Morgan
There's a lot of information out there, but I'll help get you started. :)
1. Get a 2010 Mac Mini. The models currently in stores/online are the new ones. They sound better than the 2009 and previous models (even the modded 2009 versions). Better isolation, lower noise power supply, etc etc.
2. Possible Mac Mini hardware and cable upgrades to improve performance:
2. a) Replace the hard drive with a Solid State Drive (no moving parts, low power consumption). I recommend this Intel drive, it is really fast and has one of the lowest watt-usage ratings: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Intel/SSDX25M80GEN/. For something a little cheaper, you can grab something like this: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce
2. b) You can also upgrade the amount of memory in the Mac, which people have said improves separate a bit: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_Mac_mini/DDR3
2. c) Even though a lot of audiophile power cords have had little to no affect on the 2010 Mac Mini, Dave from PI Audio has brewed up a special cable that actually benefits and opens up the Mac Mini even more. I've talked to Eric and he was impressed with the cable as well. You can find out more here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86123.0
2. d) Probably the most significant improvement you can do (especially for a USB DAC) is to grab a great sounding USB cable. The Essential cable from dB Audio Labs is very, very good. It blew me away compared to a stock USB cable and it's really something else. Eric also has a Signature Edition USB cable, so phone him up to get the scoop on that. You can read more about that on their site: http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/
3. Eric (from dB Audio Labs), recommends having your music on an external firewire drive with the Oxford 934 chipset. Firewire so it is separate from USB, and the chipset is supposed to be one of the best sounding period, for music playback. You can find them here: http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/CB2-52-1000-M.html
4. Software tweaks for the Mac Mini. These are never ending and there's tons of them out there. Few processes running means the computer doesn't have to work as hard, which lowers the amount of power each component uses in the computer, and lets more of the music to come through without being affected by noise from the components. Good place to start: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.400
5. There's a few setup things that can help. Put the USB DAC cable in the second USB connection towards the center of the back of the Mac Mini (This is supposed to be the best sounding one. I believe it has the best isolation but others can chime in if they have other thoughts as to why). Do not have any USB device other than the USB DAC attached to the Mac Mini during critical listening. I personally control the Mac Mini from my iPod Touch, so I have nothing but the DAC hooked up. If you control the Mac Mini from a mobile device like the iPod Touch, you can also have no video displays looked up to the Mac Mini, so it's totally isolated from anything but the DAC.
There's endless tweaks that can be done to improve the sound by steps and steps, but this should start things off nicely for you. I haven't heard digital music sound this good, ever. Very fun times. :thumb:
-
Highfilter,
What app do you use on the iPod Touch to control the mini remotely? I'm brand new to the mac world and don't even have my Touch yet, but i'm curious how this works -- on both the Touch and Mini side of the equation.
-- Jim
-
Apple has an app for the Touch which is just called "Remote" for controlling iTunes remotely.
-
Highfilter,
What app do you use on the iPod Touch to control the mini remotely? I'm brand new to the mac world and don't even have my Touch yet, but i'm curious how this works -- on both the Touch and Mini side of the equation.
-- Jim
I haven't tried globally controlling the OS from the iPod Touch, but you can get VNC apps that will allow you to basically turn your Touch into a monitor. But right now, I use the "Remote" app to control the playlist from iTunes/Pure Music (on the Mac side) and Foobar2000 (on the PC side - using "foo_touchremote". You can find the plugin (currently doesn't work with the newest version of Remote, but does on the earlier versions) here: http://wintense.com/plugins/foo_touchremote). I am experimenting between running Mac OS X and Windows 7 on my Mac Mini. Foobar2000 cannot be beat for functionality at the moment (from what I have tried), as I have about 4TB of music on my PC in another room, running an ethernet cable to my Mac Mini, and having Foobar share the folders across the network. Foobar has been the easiest, fastest and most "real-time" listening solution I have found. Loading 4TB of music in Mac OS X using iTunes is horrifying and painful. iTunes is horrible for indexing and has all these extra processes like determining gapless playback and a bunch of other bloat.
A few people have said that the best music listening application is "Play", for the Mac. I haven't done personal testing to compare it, but right now I need a solution that can index and share my 4TB of music easily and play it back with good functionality and sound quality. Right now, my Mac Mini running Windows 7 and Foobar via Kernel Streaming sounds really good and has the best functionality. I will begin to compare it directly with Mac OS X and Play, but if the sound quality has only minimal differences, I'd like to keep the functionality of having my entire music location in my hand, without hassle.
It might come down to just using Play on the Mac OS X for critical, critical listening - and using Foobar / Windows 7 for every other day. We shall see.
-
Wilson, thanks -- I'll go look that up to see how it fares with VoiceOver.
Highfilter, These all sounds like interesting experiments, but I know the current version of Play doesn't work with the VoiceOver screen reader on the Mac, but I've already been in contact with Stephen Booth and he will be adding VO support in his new release, supposedly coming out soon.
I'll have to look into that foobar plug-in as I currently use foobar on my little Asus EEE box media computer. My 2010 mini is out getting "blueprinted" and when that comes back, I'll be able to do some of the comparisons too. Then the alix-based linux box running MPD will be thrown into the mix to see how they all compare to each other.
Thanks again,
Jim
-
http://itunes.apple.com/app/remote/id284417350?mt=8
-
Wilson,
Thanks -- I just found that link a short while ago.
Appreciate the assistance though,
-- Jim
-
There is also the recently released PS Audio tagNplay UPnP/DLNA app that includes things like artist's bio's and a radio tuner. I've heard updates from them from time to time on it's development and what they wanted this to accomplish in making access of music easier and cool. Foobar 2000 is one of a number of players it supports.
http://itunes.apple.com/app/ps-audios-tagnplay/id384182119?mt=8
One intriuging thing related to the app on the PS Audio webssite was the current availibility of eTracks - a High Res. non compressed radio station (first of many) playable with the app. I wonder if they are linking into a station such as KEXP Seattle or....what? pS Audio is also utilizing cloud computing for their Perfect Wave dac online music database, wonder if they are connected somehow.
david
-
It might come down to just using Play on the Mac OS X for critical, critical listening - and using Foobar / Windows 7 for every other day. We shall see.
Eric initially reported that Play may have been slightly more neutral than other programs such as Pure Music or Amarra. I thought so as well. However during a listening session I did with a few other people including Mike Lenehan (the maker of ML1's) , we all thought Play was clearer but Mike noticed the bass suffered over Itunes. We were about to investigate it when some customers arrived and we had to wind up the session. Anyway I mentioned it to Eric and unknown to me he investigated it. Yep - Play while clearer does have issues with bass. Because of that I will be using Pure Music.
Thanks
Bill
-
Eric initially reported that Play may have been slightly more neutral than other programs such as Pure Music or Amarra. I thought so as well. However during a listening session I did with a few other people including Mike Lenehan (the maker of ML1.s) , we all thought Play was clearer but Mike noticed the bass suffered over Itunes. We were about to investigate it when some customers arrived and we had to wind up the session. Anyway I mentioned it to Eric and unknown to me he investigated it. Yep - Play while clearer does have issues with bass. Because of that I will be using Pure Music.
Thanks
Bill
Interesting, thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure to keep that in mind while comparing the different players.
Does anyone else have any other networking solutions for having mass storage streamed over the network? iTunes is horrible and it seems everything on the Mac relies on iTunes to have library support, which is sad because I don't find it well made at all in terms of having a huge library of music. I know most people on these forums focus on pure sound quality and don't mind just having a small hard drive with some tracks on it, but if I can't access half my music, it kind of defeats the purpose of digital music for me. And I don't want a huge 4 to 6-bay drive enclosure or something else near my Mac Mini or listening room, because all my storage and workstation is completely separate and I never use the Mac Mini for anything else but pressing play. I might have to bite the bullet and transfer some songs over the network to the Mac Min if I want to listen to them in my main system, but I'm just surprised there's nothing that really is developed for the Mac besides iTunes for network/library support.
With Foobar on Windows 7, you can add shared folders and have everything indexed and streamed within minutes. And it doesn't need to determine gapless playback or cause a huge load on the computer - and if you add new music to those shared folders, it indexes it right away and you don't even notice it working in the background. Maybe I am missing something as I am new to the Mac world, but it seems to be a real pain in the ass to get simple library support for an audio player that is actually developed properly.
-
Yes, I also found Play to be someehat lf restricted, but didn't "play" with it for anywhere near the time I've had with PM or Amarra. I use PM in hog mode most of the time, but sometimes when demoing a neutral-to-lean DAC (or during break in, etc) I find that Amarra can flesh it out better than PM. I guess in my system Amarra tends to have a very very slight lower midrange bump, something clearly my Weiss doesn't agree with (PM is the perfect Weiss companion for me) but that sounds great with other sources. It's all about synergy. :)
-
Thanks for all the great info....that should keep me busy for quite a while!
There's a lot of information out there, but I'll help get you started. :)
1. Get a 2010 Mac Mini. The models currently in stores/online are the new ones. They sound better than the 2009 and previous models (even the modded 2009 versions). Better isolation, lower noise power supply, etc etc.
2. Possible Mac Mini hardware and cable upgrades to improve performance:
2. a) Replace the hard drive with a Solid State Drive (no moving parts, low power consumption). I recommend this Intel drive, it is really fast and has one of the lowest watt-usage ratings: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Intel/SSDX25M80GEN/. For something a little cheaper, you can grab something like this: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal_storage/Mercury_Extreme_SSD_Sandforce
2. b) You can also upgrade the amount of memory in the Mac, which people have said improves separate a bit: http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Apple_Mac_mini/DDR3
2. c) Even though a lot of audiophile power cords have had little to no affect on the 2010 Mac Mini, Dave from PI Audio has brewed up a special cable that actually benefits and opens up the Mac Mini even more. I've talked to Eric and he was impressed with the cable as well. You can find out more here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86123.0
2. d) Probably the most significant improvement you can do (especially for a USB DAC) is to grab a great sounding USB cable. The Essential cable from dB Audio Labs is very, very good. It blew me away compared to a stock USB cable and it's really something else. Eric also has a Signature Edition USB cable, so phone him up to get the scoop on that. You can read more about that on their site: http://www.dbaudiolabs.com/
3. Eric (from dB Audio Labs), recommends having your music on an external firewire drive with the Oxford 934 chipset. Firewire so it is separate from USB, and the chipset is supposed to be one of the best sounding period, for music playback. You can find them here: http://oyendigital.com/hard-drives/store/CB2-52-1000-M.html
4. Software tweaks for the Mac Mini. These are never ending and there's tons of them out there. Few processes running means the computer doesn't have to work as hard, which lowers the amount of power each component uses in the computer, and lets more of the music to come through without being affected by noise from the components. Good place to start: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.400
5. There's a few setup things that can help. Put the USB DAC cable in the second USB connection towards the center of the back of the Mac Mini (This is supposed to be the best sounding one. I believe it has the best isolation but others can chime in if they have other thoughts as to why). Do not have any USB device other than the USB DAC attached to the Mac Mini during critical listening. I personally control the Mac Mini from my iPod Touch, so I have nothing but the DAC hooked up. If you control the Mac Mini from a mobile device like the iPod Touch, you can also have no video displays looked up to the Mac Mini, so it's totally isolated from anything but the DAC.
There's endless tweaks that can be done to improve the sound by steps and steps, but this should start things off nicely for you. I haven't heard digital music sound this good, ever. Very fun times. :thumb:
-
It's all about synergy. :)
Hi Ted
You aren't whistling Dixie.
Just downloaded Pure Music. Man in my system does it sound good. So much more vivid detailed and alive. I think part of it is those ML1's total lack of cabinet resonances - any increase in detail is readily discerned. IMHO leaves Play and Itunes in the dust.
Thanks
Bill
-
Just downloaded Pure Music. Man in my system does it sound good. So much more vivid detailed and alive. I think part of it is those ML1's total lack of cabinet resonances - any increase in detail is readily discerned. IMHO leaves Play and Itunes in the dust.
I had the exact same experience when I switched from Play to Pure Music. I couldn't get over how dynamic and punchy PM was in comparison. I initially thought it might be more fatiguing during long sessions but experience has proven that wrong. Just more alive and detailed; now Play sounds veiled. Regarding cabinet resonances, my Gallo Stradas also have nearly none to speak of. Maybe that does have something to do with it.
Matt
-
I had the exact same experience when I switched from Play to Pure Music. I couldn't get over how dynamic and punchy PM was in comparison. I initially thought it might be more fatiguing during long sessions but experience has proven that wrong. Just more alive and detailed; now Play sounds veiled. Regarding cabinet resonances, my Gallo Stradas also have nearly none to speak of. Maybe that does have something to do with it.
Matt
Question, I have not received my Tranquility Signature yet, but do you have to set Pure Music to a set 16/44 so it properly plays in the Tranquility or does it matter? Just asking because I know Pure Music supports dynamic sample rate switching and will switch the output to whatever the file has. Was just wondering if all the signals have to be 16/44 for the Tranquility to accept, or if you are playing a 24/192 file and it outputs that stream, if the Tranquility just puts it down to 16/44 since there are no special drivers for it.
-
Question, I have not received my Tranquility Signature yet, but do you have to set Pure Music to a set 16/44 so it properly plays in the Tranquility or does it matter? Just asking because I know Pure Music supports dynamic sample rate switching and will switch the output to whatever the file has. Was just wondering if all the signals have to be 16/44 for the Tranquility to accept, or if you are playing a 24/192 file and it outputs that stream, if the Tranquility just puts it down to 16/44 since there are no special drivers for it.
Its dead set simple - you simply enable memory playback - that's it.
Thanks
Bill
-
Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!
Ken
-
Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!
Ken
As stated in my post I run hog mode, and wouldn't ever run PM without it. Big difference. And in the latest 1.6x version of PM it's easy. It makes going back and forth to Amarra difficult ...but big deal.
-
Are you guys running Pure Music in Hog Mode? If not you are in for a real treat when you try it!
The Tranquility DAC doesn't support it.
Thanks
Bil
-
The Tranquility DAC doesn't support it.
???
A good friend of mine and I have had the same experience with the Tranquility and Pure Music in Hog Mode. Try Pure Music in Hog Mode and report back that the the sound does not improve!
Ken
-
The Tranquility DAC doesn't support it.
Thanks
Bil
Sure it does. Just pick internal output in Audio Midi (i.e NOT Tranquility) and close it, then set up hog mode exclusivity in PM's advanced preferences, and hit the restart button at the bottom of that screen.
-
A good friend of mine and I have had the same experience with the Tranquility and Pure Music in Hog Mode. Try Pure Music in Hog Mode and report back that the the sound does not improve!
Scratching head. It is grayed out when using the Tranquility - you can't select it and it gives a message it's not supported. If you know how let me know.
Thanks
Bill
-
Sure it does. Just pick internal output in Audio Midi (i.e NOT Tranquility) and close it, then set up hog mode exclusivity in PM's advanced preferences, and hit the restart button at the bottom of that screen.
No longer scratching head. That worked. And I think it does sound better. Slightly less sibilant to my ears.
Thanks
Bill
-
The Tranquility works fine with Hog mode enabled via Pure Music. It does not need "support" from our dac.
Please consider thinking of "Hog mode" as a computer program's functionality on your computer (in this case, Pure Music's program function). So the computer model and operating system defines whether or not it's "supported" and has nothing to do with the dac for "support". We have plenty of customers using Hog Mode at this very moment :green:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
-
The Tranquility works fine with Hog mode enabled via Pure Music. It does not need "support" from our dac.
It sure does. The trick is to select the internal sound source rather than the USB driver. If you don't it grays it out and says it is not supported. Not only slightly less sibilant but a bit smoother as well.
Thanks
Bill
-
Yes, the process of selecting and implementing "hog mode" is well documented in Rob's PDF that comes with the download...but as card-carrying audiophiles we seldom "read the manual". :) Make sure not only to set the internal audio in Audio midi, and not only to choose the DAC driver in the pulldown on the PM advanced preferences page, but also check off the hog mode exclusivity box on that page too, then restart via the bottom button.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36741)
-
My Signature Tranquility hasn't arrived yet (hope Eric has received the check), and I already use Pure Music (in Hog mode), but just to be clear: I leave my audio midi (and Pure Music) settings at 24/96 (or whatever), and the Tranquility will play my high res tracks?
Thanks!
-
Just downloaded Pure Music. Man in my system does it sound good. So much more vivid detailed and alive....
I've down loaded and tried the demo version and agree with other posters. The Pure Music sounds better.
So, are folks buying the software for the full $129, or are there discounts codes, coupons or specials for AudioCircle members? Thanks.
-
I've down loaded and tried the demo version and agree with other posters. The Pure Music sounds better.
So, are folks buying the software for the full $129, or are there discounts codes, coupons or specials for AudioCircle members? Thanks.
I purchased Pure Music in or around March and I had to pay $129.00. I believe the latest upgrade downloaded last week - version 1.63. Unfortunately, I have not seen any discounts offered.
Ken
-
I purchased Pure Music in or around March and I had to pay $129.00. I believe the latest upgrade downloaded last week - version 1.63. Unfortunately, I have not seen any discounts offered.
Ken
I think in the past Channel D have offered discounts around RMAF, don't know if they will again. I've had Pure Vinyl for a while and really love it.
Jim C
-
Yes, the process of selecting and implementing "hog mode" is well documented in Rob's PDF that comes with the download...but as card-carrying audiophiles we seldom "read the manual". :) Make sure not only to set the internal audio in Audio midi, and not only to choose the DAC driver in the pulldown on the PM advanced preferences page, but also check off the hog mode exclusivity box on that page too, then restart via the bottom button.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=36741)
Ted:
Thank you for posting the detailed instructions to set-up Hog Mode. I had a friend walk me through it months ago and I forgot the steps.
Ken
-
Thank you for posting the detailed instructions to set-up Hog Mode. I had a friend walk me through it months ago and I forgot the steps.
Yes Ted thanks for posting that. And I have noticed that Hog mode definitely sounds better. It goes beyond better sibilance - it removes a slight edginess it had before. Just reacquainting myself with Carol King Tapestry - man does it sound good in hog mode.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi All
One thing I forgot to mention is to get hog mode working I needed to untick the device validation box. I have since read in the manual this is not recommended. It is suggested in the manual that if you select something other than USB output in the midi interface (I selected the internal device) then there is no need to do this. However this is not what I found. Does anyone know how to get around this or even if it is a problem.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Again All
I am still having problems with hog mode. It still sounds great but not only do I have the problem to get it working I have to turn strict validation off which is not recommended but now when I fire it up it reverts to not playing through my dac but through my tv. This is rather annoying but even apart from that it suggests some deeper underlying problem. Anyone got any ideas? Or should I really contact Prue Music support about it?
Thanks
Bill
-
Bill,
Hog mode is not enacted if the DAC is playing through your tv. All other Tranquility owners are playing Hog mode fine, I think (as per Eric and others). Your issue is somewhere else IMO.
I'd start over, make very sure Audio Midi has your input and output set to internal (not Tranquility), make sure you see and pick the Tranquility driver in the PM advanced preference screen pulldown, check off the exclusivity box below it, and then make sure you do the auto-restart of PM by choosing the large button at the bottom of said Advanced pref screen (my red circles). if possible do a screen capture for us.
-
Hog mode is not enacted if the DAC is playing through your tv. All other Tranquility owners are playing Hog mode fine, I think (as per Eric and others). Your issue is somewhere else IMO.
I don't know what's going on but it did for me - with hog mode checked it played through my TV.
I'd start over, make very sure Audio Midi has your input and output set to internal (not Tranquility), make sure you see and pick the Tranquility driver in the PM advanced preference screen pulldown, check off the exclusivity box below it, and then make sure you do the auto-restart of PM by choosing the large button at the bottom of said Advanced pref screen (my red circles). if possible do a screen capture for us.
I have done that until the cows come home - at least 10 times and probably a lot more. I have set Midi to the internal speaker. Sometimes it will let me check both the strict validation and Hog Mode - and sometimes not. But regardless when it restarts it never has both boxes checked - Hog Mode is checked off and grayed out so I can not change it. To get it to stay I need to uncheck strict validation. However when it fires up the USB DAC in preferences is no longer the output - it is my TV and I need to change that. Only if Hog Mode is checked does it fire up defaulting to my TV.
It does not stop Hog mode from working - it is simply is a bit of a kludge so maybe others using the Tranquility simply put up with it. Don't know. I am hoping some others using PM with the Tranquility and the latest Mac Mini can chime in.
Thanks
Bill
-
I've had the Tranquility SE for a few days now. It has been nice, the kind of natural, laid back presentation I expect a good NOS DAC to have. I confess that while it has been utterly without fatigue to these ears (a very good thing for me indeed), up until now it has not really stood out in any special way.
Based only on Eric Hider's strong recommendation, I picked up a 2010 unibody Mac Mini today. I also turned off spotlight, the IR controller, made sure the DAC was on its own USB controller, got Pure Music installed, configured hog mode etc.
My conclusion?
Mac Mini + Pure Music + Essential USB + Tranquility SE is really, really good -- an extraordinary and superior solution. This audiophool has seen quite a bit of gear go through his home over the past three years now, and it's the very best he's heard.
-
Mac Mini + Pure Music + Essential USB + Tranquility SE is really, really good; an extraordinary and superior solution. This audiophool has seen quite a bit of gear go through his home over the past three years now, and it's the very best he's heard.
That is exactly what I found out. Unless fed the way you said above it is rather ho hum. But when it is fed correctly watch out. It is simply the best digital I have owned and very close to the best I have ever heard. It fact it may be the best. I will hopefully be able to take it down to the person I knows place who has the better DAC to check it out tomorrow.
Thanks
Bill
-
:D it's going to sound better ???? i still have the mini-tranq dac in 'hohum' set-up.i thought it sounded really good.will have to get the pure music going .do you really need to take out the IR controller ?? does that mean no ipod for a remote.???? :D
-
....do you really need to take out the IR controller ?? does that mean no ipod for a remote. ???? :D
The iPod uses Wi-Fi wireless networking for remote control, not IR.
Steve
-
:D it's going to sound better ???? i still have the mini-tranq dac in 'hohum' set-up.i thought it sounded really good.will have to get the pure music going .do you really need to take out the IR controller ?? does that mean no ipod for a remote.???? :D
Nope. I haven't done that and it sounds awesome. You simply do what Eric recommends.
Thanks
Bill
-
:D thks Steve,Bill.by ho-hum i mean i have not got pure music--hog mode yet,behind the times as per normal.my little mini-tranq is still standard outta the box state.still the best digi i have ever heard. :D need to call a friend-mobile shout-out,call Eric for the latest i quess ???? :thumb: don't reallt know what i am missing but let me tell ya,if this digital gets even better,i am selling my turntable,hehe.... :lol:
-
While I had performed Eric's software tweaks at the time they were presented I had not disabled Spotlight. I thought I had disabled it but had only unchecked items in Preferences. I've been researching methods for disabling it but after finding numerous versions and getting a bit spooked I happened upon SPOTLESS shareware. It allows you to turn Spotlight off (and on) with just the press of a button.
A noticeable difference now that it is actually off. Another veil has been lifted.
-
I headed down to Mike Lenehan's place (the maker of ML1's) to check out the Tranquility with PM on his reference system. I was hopeful it may now pip the prototype of the DAC he and an acquaintance is working on, the PDX. But they had made a few changes to it that lifted it top another level and it wasn't to be - it still was better. It must be pointed out it is also more expensive. The signature is the PDX's more natural competitor.
We verified PM in hog mode was better. However we noticed a couple of things - first for some reason Itunes was louder which really should not happen if it is bit perfect. Which is not bit perfect who knows. Secondly it took on a 'cold' character and Mike thought it may have been a bit grungy. I really couldn't hear the grunge thing but the coldness was there for sure. I will have to give Eric a ring to check out whats going on.
Thanks
Bill
-
I took my Mac Mini/Tranquility System to a local audio G2G on Saturday Evening where we compared 6 different, popular DACs. All ICs were JPS Superconductor 3's and PCs were also JPS. The preamp was an Audio Research Ref 3 and the amp was a Moscode 402 AU. All power connections except the amp were into an Equi=Tech Power Conditioner.
No, The Tranquility was not considered to be the best sounding DAC but the one that was considered the winner lists for double the Tranquilities $1495.00 list price. This comment written by one of the attendees accurately describes the reaction toward the Tranquility:Most of the rest of night centered around various DACs. Ken's Tranquility/Mac mini was a very winning combination. Perhaps giving up the last bit of detail, but sounding smooth, relaxed and extremely listenable. It was almost like listening to an LP.
If you wish to read more comments about the various gear and DACs you can see them here: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2497.30 (http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2497.30)
The Tranquility/Mac Mini system just makes music that is a pure joy to hear, making you think you are listening to vinyl. I am excited about the new SE Version and don't really know why except for the nervosa of this hobby.
Ken
-
Good stuff Ken. I'm amazed the Zodiac Plus was even listenable at 20 hrs break in. That DAC is glorious, but not until 200 hours plus (others who have it will attest). Until then it is harsh, flat and midfi. Over 200 hours...wow! (but also 2x the price of the Tranquility standard). Look forward to hearing Eric's DAC soon.
-
The Tranquility/Mac Mini system just makes music that is a pure joy to hear, making you think you are listening to vinyl. I am excited about the new SE Version and don't really know why except for the nervosa of this hobby.
Thanks for posting that. I think you found out exactly what we found out with both the Trsainquility and the WFS DAC2. The Tranquilty is compeditive against anything but some more expensive and/or heavily tricked out competition may have a slight edge. The SE version will be a fairer match for that sort of stuff. The WFS is impressive in a Hi Fi sense but just like you we found it cold, uninvolveing, and with a slight problem in the upper midrange such that 'The Wyred 4 Sound was surprising to me, in that it immediately sounded pretty harsh, on all inputs'. However I would not have said 'pretty harsh' simply a bit harsh on occasion.
I gave Eric a ring about the coldness thing and he thinks it's a power supply issue - maybe because we had the Mac Mini plugged into power conditioning which is not recommended.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks for posting that. Is think you found out exactly what we found out with both the Trsainquility and the WFS DAC2. The Tranquilty is compeditive against anything but some more expensive and/or heavily tricked out competition may have a slight edge. The SE version will be a fairer match for that sort of stuff. The WFS is impressive in a Hi Fi sense but jusy like you we fond it cold, uninvolveing, and with a slight problem in the upper midrange such that 'The Wyred 4 Sound was surprising to me, in that it immediately sounded pretty harsh, on all inputs'. However I would not have said 'pretty harsh' simply a bit harsh on occasion.
I gave Eric a ring about the coldness thing and he thins its a power supply issue - maybe because we had the Mac Mini plugged into power conditioning which is not recommended.
Thanks
Bill
The Tranquility DAC does not like conditioners, to be sure. The designer did his homework on the power supply in the Tranquility and it does not need one to sound great. Kind of a bummer for me being the UberBUSS guy and all. :? The Signature will be a different thing, though. Power cables and good conditioners "should" have more of an effect either positevely or negatively. We will soon see. I have one coming.
Dave
-
The Tranquility DAC does not like conditioners, to be sure. The designer did his homework on the power supply in the Tranquility and it does not need one to sound great.
Double darn, I don't know why I did not know plugging the Tranquility into a Power Conditioner could degrade its performance. All of the DACs that we evaluated were plugged into an Equi=Tech.
I think everyone that visits the Audio Forums realize that many factors influence how we feel about any piece of gear when we have shoot=out comparisons. There were some new, highly regarded DACs we were fortunate to have the opportunity to compare at Richidoo's on Saturday Evening. We tried our best to compare each DAC providing each with its best potential to sound its best (in that room with that particular gear). I linked to our results but I hope no one will take these results as absolute.
Ken
-
Double darn, I don't know why I did not know plugging the Tranquility into a Power Conditioner could degrade its performance. All of the DACs that we evaluated were plugged into an Equi=Tech.
I think everyone that visits the Audio Forums realize that many factors influence how we feel about any piece of gear when we have shoot=out comparisons. There were some new, highly regarded DACs we were fortunate to have the opportunity to compare at Richidoo's on Saturday Evening. We tried our best to compare each DAC providing each with its best potential to sound its best (in that room with that particular gear). I linked to our results but I hope no one will take these results as absolute.
Ken
The base Tranquility has a resonance filter built into it that is like a mini-Power Factor Correction circuit for the want of a better term. CorComs, shunt filters and such screw with this filter and degrade the sound.
It is all about synergy.
Dave
-
The Tranquility DAC does not like conditioners, to be sure. The designer did his homework on the power supply in the Tranquility and it does not need one to sound great. Kind of a bummer for me being the UberBUSS guy and all. :? The Signature will be a different thing, though. Power cables and good conditioners "should" have more of an effect either positevely or negatively. We will soon see. I have one coming.
I too have a signature coming that I will be checking against the PDX which is expected to have completed its first production run soon. That will be a fairer comparison because the PDX is more expensive and tricked out with stuff such as hellishly expensive, but hellishly good, Duelund capacitors. However I expect the coolness was more caused by the Mac Mini being plugged into a conditioner than the Tranquility. Eric specifically warned me about that. We have tried the Tranquility before and never noticed that and it certainly does not occur in my system - only on the reference system we used. The Mac Mini plugged into the conditioner was the only thing I could think of that was different.
Thanks
Bill
-
I too have a signature coming that I will be checking against the PDX which is expected to have completed its first production run soon. That will be a fairer comparison because the PDX is more expensive and tricked out with stuff such as hellishly expensive, but hellishly good, Duelund capacitors. However I expect the coolness was more caused by Mac Mini being plugged into a conditioner than the Tranquility. Eric specifically warned me about that. We have tried the Tranquility before and never noticed that and it and certainly does not occur in my system - only on the reference system we used. The Mac Mini plugged into the conditioner was the only thing I could think of that was different.
Thanks
Bill
Bill, I think we are all going to learn a lot about the Tranquility/Signature/MAC Mini this weekend at RMAF. There is nothing like the hellish environment of an audio show to bring out the worst and best in things. 8)
Stay tuned.
Dave
-
Going back to the Mac Tweaks.
Can I have a user account that has all the "stuff" removed
and another user account that is the Apple stock setup?
This would help in using the Mini for other tasks.
Jeff
-
Sorry for a bit of topic question..... :oops:
But did anyone had a chance to compare db Tranquility to Wyred 2 DAC :scratch:
I know that db is dedicated USB DAC and should perform better but wonder how good is Wyred USB reproduction. It certainly is more feature loaded but I am more interested in its USB conversion.
Thanks in advance :thumb:
-
hey,
i have not heard either one myself but i have read some stuff that says that they said they liked the db dac better.
just saying what i read. take it for what its worth.
-
Sorry for a bit of topic question..... :oops:
But did anyone had a chance to compare db Tranquility to Wyred 2 DAC :scratch:
I know that db is dedicated USB DAC and should perform better but wonder how good is Wyred USB reproduction. It certainly is more feature loaded but I am more interested in its USB conversion.
Thanks in advance :thumb:
?? Mariusz, have you read this thread? Bill (Bhobba) has many many posts about the Tranquility and the Wyred DAC, and just a few posts above yours Ken has a link to a thread about a dac shootout where the Wyred was compared to the Tranquility. They are compared all over this thread..
-
?? Mariusz, have you read this thread? Bill (Bhobba) has many many posts about the Tranquility and the Wyred DAC, and just a few posts above yours Ken has a link to a thread about a dac shootout where the Wyred was compared to the Tranquility. They are compared all over this thread..
Sorry Ted.
I read first few pages long ago and very randomly there after. If it is in this thread, I'll find it.
Thanks
-
Sorry for a bit of topic question..... :oops:
But did anyone had a chance to compare db Tranquility to Wyred 2 DAC :scratch:
I know that db is dedicated USB DAC and should perform better but wonder how good is Wyred USB reproduction. It certainly is more feature loaded but I am more interested in its USB conversion.
Thanks in advance :thumb:
You can look at bhobba's posts, he has compared them both and made quite a few comparisons between them (heh, Ted beat me to it). He preferred the Tranquility over the W4S DAC-2 because it was absent of any sibilance and was more liquid and smooth sounding. One of the most common things I hear about the Tranquility is how smooth and liquid it is, with no traces of digital glare.
I have a Signature Edition Tranquility on its way over here, and I currently own the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 - so look forward to a head-to-head comparison fairly soon. I know the Tranquility SE is more expensive than the DAC-2, but it should be interesting noting the differences anyway.
Regarding the W4S DAC-2 USB... I was using a Black Cat cable from the Logitech Squeezebox Touch to the W4S DAC-2 before and it was sounding good. I then bought a Mac Mini and used the W4S DAC-2's USB connection. It wasn't even close to being as good as the Black Cat cable to the Squeezebox Touch. I was using a generic USB cable from Monoprice. So I thought I'd try the Essential USB cable from dB Audio Labs - and that really pushed it up in performance. So well, in fact, that it was quite a bit better than the Black Cat / Squeezebox Touch combo. I no longer use a Squeezebox. After all the reviews and the impressions from the USB cable, I contacted Eric and ordered a Signature Edition Tranquility because I have to try this thing out.
From my experience, the best sound I got from the W4S DAC-2 was using a high quality USB cable with a Mac Mini as a source. And since I am only going to use USB, it makes sense to try a product where they focus on a very high quality implementation of USB and get the most performance possible. Another thing I learned about the W4S DAC-2 was that it benefits quite greatly from isolation and damping. I just tried putting a 2.5lb weight on top of the chassis and it brought more focus and meat to the mid-range, and cleaned up the high freq. a bit. Something from Herbie's Audio Lab should kick it up a few notches. I heard this was not essentially the case for the Tranquility as it has been built to already have good isolation and damping, but it depends on each person's setup most likely.
Hope this helps and sorry to derail into W4S comments in a Tranquility thread.
-
Sorry for a bit of topic question..... :oops:
But did anyone had a chance to compare db Tranquility to Wyred 2 DAC :scratch:
I know that db is dedicated USB DAC and should perform better but wonder how good is Wyred USB reproduction. It certainly is more feature loaded but I am more interested in its USB conversion.
Thanks in advance :thumb:
If you wish to read more comments about the various gear and DACs you can see them here: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2497.30
-
You can look at bhobba's posts, he has compared them both and made quite a few comparisons between them (heh, Ted beat me to it). He preferred the Tranquility over the W4S DAC-2 because it was absent of any sibilance and was more liquid and smooth sounding. One of the most common things I hear about the Tranquility is how smooth and liquid it is, with no traces of digital glare.
I have a Signature Edition Tranquility on its way over here, and I currently own the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 - so look forward to a head-to-head comparison fairly soon. I know the Tranquility SE is more expensive than the DAC-2, but it should be interesting noting the differences anyway.
Regarding the W4S DAC-2 USB... I was using a Black Cat cable from the Logitech Squeezebox Touch to the W4S DAC-2 before and it was sounding good. I then bought a Mac Mini and used the W4S DAC-2's USB connection. It wasn't even close to being as good as the Black Cat cable to the Squeezebox Touch. I was using a generic USB cable from Monoprice. So I thought I'd try the Essential USB cable from dB Audio Labs - and that really pushed it up in performance. So well, in fact, that it was quite a bit better than the Black Cat / Squeezebox Touch combo. I no longer use a Squeezebox. After all the reviews and the impressions from the USB cable, I contacted Eric and ordered a Signature Edition Tranquility because I have to try this thing out.
From my experience, the best sound I got from the W4S DAC-2 was using a high quality USB cable with a Mac Mini as a source. And since I am only going to use USB, it makes sense to try a product where they focus on a very high quality implementation of USB and get the most performance possible. Another thing I learned about the W4S DAC-2 was that it benefits quite greatly from isolation and damping. I just tried putting a 2.5lb weight on top of the chassis and it brought more focus and meat to the mid-range, and cleaned up the high freq. a bit. Something from Herbie's Audio Lab should kick it up a few notches. I heard this was not essentially the case for the Tranquility as it has been built to already have good isolation and damping, but it depends on each person's setup most likely.
Hope this helps and sorry to derail into W4S comments in a Tranquility thread.
Actually, it was very helpful.
Especially, because I own Squeezbox Touch (although it's used in 2nd rig) and am planing to invest in new Mac Mini. The cable used at the moment is RSA Poiema R-v3 USB (it is better then stock cables for sure). There is also re-clocker from Empirical Audio which was used with my other DAC....... not sure if it is going to be needed anymore?
As to Tranquility DAC liquidity - surely my cup of tea but I need a bit more then just USB.
Wonder if they are planing to release more feature proof version?
Thanks and sorry for highjacking your thread.
Hopefully I didn't step on to many toes?
Cheers
Mariusz
-
If you wish to read more comments about the various gear and DACs you can see them here: http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=2497.30
:thumb: thanks
-
Sorry for a bit of topic question..... :oops:But did anyone had a chance to compare db Tranquility to Wyred 2 DAC :scratch:
I know that db is dedicated USB DAC and should perform better but wonder how good is Wyred USB reproduction. It certainly is more feature loaded but I am more interested in its USB conversion.
I have done that on a number of occasions; both by myself and with others, some of which were very experienced listeners. To my ears, and everyone else's, the Tranquility was preferred. Here is what one person said about the WFS and sums up my and others views:
'An amazing amount of detail, excellent tonal consistency and powerful bass. But it sounded like you were playing a CD and there were electronic artifacts in the form of a mid treble glare that intruded. Grey background. Micro dynamically restricted. However its combination of consistent tonality and detail was impressive in a hifi sense and I can actually believe that some listeners might place this as their favorite.'
The Tranquility OTOH sounds very fluid, liquid and analog like. Despite the WFS's reputation for producing the best detail of any DAC, I found the Tranquility to be just as good. The only negative I can find against it is on some occasions we have found it slightly 'cold'. We particularly noticed it on a reference system when compared to a DAC called the PDX. I have been trying to see if I can hear it on my system and now think I can, but for some reason it seems quite a bit reduced. I think this 'cold' thing is related to 'grunge' and may have something to do with the switching supply of the Mac causing problems. I am listening to the Bee Gees right now and have done a bit of experimentation. Eric mentions you need to reverse the the power cord into the mini and see which is the least grungy. I have noticed that as well but the more gungy one also seems to be the one that is colder. Just a hypothsis at this stage.
The other thing about the Trainquility is it is very sensitive to what you feed. Dont feed it optimally and it sounds ho hum. Feed it optimally then WOW.
Also Eric has voiced it to be as close as possible to the original master tape. Since most material is not mastered optimally this means you can see that really easily. But feed it well mastered material such as some direct from the master recordings I have access to then again WOW. To me this is actually its biggest issue, We have often compared it to a DAC some friends are working on called the PDX. This DAC is voiced to sound real to one of the designers ears based on regular live sessions he attends. This has led to the PDX sounding better on most recordings but when fed with top notch material the Tranquility slightly pips the PDX. However the PDX is a prototype and recently has had changes to it that now has lifted its level and it sounds better pretty much on all material now. It must be noted with these changes it is now much more expensive than the base Tranquility. A much fairer comparison will be with Signature Tranquility which will happen in due course.
Overall my opinion of the base Tranquility is it blasts any competition at or below its price point. Actually except for the Tranquility so does the WFS. It actually is better than quite a few much more expensive DAC's but some exist that out do it. The WFS struggles against the Tranquility and much more expensive DAC's to my ears. The signature will be a better and more natural competitor to those more expensive DAC's such as the PDX
Thanks
Bill
-
Thank You Bill.
Reason I ask is simple - I've one coming my way and wonder how does it stuck up against the competition? Obviously I haven't heard WFS in person and bought it out of curiosity and spects alone. It should arrive at my door steps right after RMAF. Like I said, the only reason I passed on Tranquility DAC was lock of COAX input and setup that....... could chalange my novice computer skills.
-
One of the most common things I hear about the Tranquility is how smooth and liquid it is, with no traces of digital glare.
One thing I will mention about the Tranquility and digital glare, and it is associated with the philosophy of getting as close as possible to the master tape, if the CD has glare in it as some do you get it all brother - right in your ear drums. I have noticed this on a number of recordings as my listening to this DAC in my system continues. The difference to the WFS is when you feed the Tranquility stuff such as a direct to the master recording of say Peggy Lee Fever you are shocked at how much like vinyl it is - so beautiful, liquid and smooth. The WFS sounds flat and uninvolveing in comparison. I would also say the WFS is cold (as Mike Lenehan said 'The top end was clean ! ohh so clean, like listening to music in the fridge !'), and while the Tranquility is not as cold as the WFS, I now believe I can detect some coldness when compared to the PDX. My suspicion at this stage is it may be a power supply grunge issue or associated with the fact we are not using the recommended firewire drive. Will keep you guys updated.
The other thing I need to make clear and I should have really said this right from the start, is this is cold compared to a DAC, the PDX, that sounds hot. As I mentioned several times previously the PDX has been voiced to sound real to one of designers ears compared to what he hears at live events he attends regularly. A hot sounding quality may sound more real but is almost certainly a departure from neutrality - in fact I have been told by people who know more about valves than I do this is a characteristic of more euphonic valve gear. Neutral sounding gear sounds cold in comparison. The cold character of the Tranquility, and I again must emphasize this is in comparison to a hot DAC and not a refection of being cold in absolute terms, is in fact a reflection of the Tranquilities neutrality. The concern I have is because the Tranquility is so neutral, and to be blunt truthful, may be revealing some type of grunge. This is what I want to check out. Rest assured when you feed the Tranquility with well recorded material it sounds anything other than cold. It sounds simply entrancing and it is the hot sounding much more expensive DAC that looses out.
I am so impressed with the Tranquility I am now ordering a second one.
Thanks
Bill
-
I was wondering if you guys ever daisy chained external hard drives for playback or transferring files? And did you notice a sonic difference (good or bad)? What were they?
Thanks,
Tom
-
I was wonder if you guys ever daisy chained external hard drives for playback or transferring files? And did you notice a sonic difference (good or bad)? What were they?
Never tried that.
Thanks
Bill
-
I was wondering if you guys ever daisy chained external hard drives for playback or transferring files? And did you notice a sonic difference (good or bad)? What were they?
Thanks,
Tom
Anyone?
-
I was just down at Mike's (that is Mike Lehehan the maker of the ML1's) checking out the first production run of his new PDX DAC with USB input. Man this is one fine sounding DAC. It was not even fully tricked out with the top stuff like Duelund capacitors and already it is above the prototype, which is in the same league as the reference DAC Mike was using - and that clobbers a DCS Stack. This is serious stuff 100% for sure. We also checked it out against the base model Tranquility DAC. Now the PDX fully tricked out is nearly 3 times the price of the Tranquility but it was absolutely competitive. Very transparent and analog like. Very beguiling. The PDX just pipped it in bass control and coherency but it was far from shamed. A 'coldness' issue we previously had was completely removed by powering the Mac Mini from a non conditioned power supply as recommended by Eric. For the money the Tranquility is exceptional value. Mike was very impressed. The Tranquility Signature will be a tough challenge for the PDX, but the PDX we will check it out on will be totally tricked out with Duelunds and the other top stuff. This promises to be one hell of a comparison.
I want to emphasize there was no trace of the coldness issue - gone - totally disappeared. In fact I thought I could detect a very slight trace of it in my system. The experience on Mikes reference system suggests slightly better results can be obtained if you plug the Tranquility into conditioning and the Mac into no conditioning. But it really is very slight. Eric is correct when he claims the Tranquility is quite insensitive to power conditioning, up market chords etc. Another great feature of this fine DAC.
Oh and the other thing is this was not on specially recorded direct from master tapes that we know makes the Tranquility sound particularly good. This was bog standard stuff. I suspect if that was used then it would be even closer or maybe even beat the PDX. At one third the price this is an excellent achievement and really makes my mouth water for the Signature.
Mike is so impressed he will be keeping a signature to use as a reference. I am really chuffed I am getting a second one.
Thanks
Bill
-
Which year Mac Mini are you using Bill? Is it tweaked?
My Signature should be here anyday. Can't wait to how it compares to the PDX.
-
Which year Mac Mini are you using Bill? Is it tweaked? My Signature should be here anyday. Can't wait to how it compares to the PDX.
2010 model running Pure Music with the special USB cable. The suggested tweaks have not been done yet and we were not using the recommended Oyen firewire drive even though it had arrived. Things were a bit rushed as Mike was doing some other stuff and the PDX was only there for a short time since the guy that purchased it understandably wanted it ASAP.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi All
The Tranquility Signature just arrived and right out of the box we noticed better bass, more cohesion and better inner detail and resolution. Interestingly Mike Lenehan thought Itunes was better than Pure Music and is something we will need to investigate further. Mike will be listening to it further tonight and I will be going down there tomorrow and will be able report further the next day.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi All
As mentoined in the previous post we got the Signature and gave a few initial impressions. I mentioned we were going to have a much longer listen the next day. Ok me and 4 other very experienced listeners did just that last night. OK Eric says we should not seriously listen to the Signature without some serious break in time. But we had this thing and were itching to give it a listen. Unfortunately guys I am going to have to wimp out here because everyone, without being told, said exactly what Eric said - this thing needs serious break in time and at the end of our time when I wanted to get a consensus of what we thought everyone said we must say this thing needs serious break in time just as Eric said. However this initial checkout actually extended to the wee hours and about 1.00am when the other guys had left and I was chatting with Mike Lenehan before going home we thought it was a bit too much of a wimp out to say absolutely nothing so what Mike and me decided we should say, purely as our opinion, and nothing to do with the other guys is this DAC is up there with the best both of us have ever heard. Exactly where it fits in that rarefied pantheon is yet to be determined, but it is up there. Mike will definitely be keeping it on as a reference DAC for using in his speaker designing and for demonstrating to his customers. I am getting a second one for use in my main rig for exactly the same reason. Sorry guys but much more detailed information will follow later.
Thanks
Bill
-
Bill,
That was exactly my impression after listening to the Signature with the modified 2010 mini at RMAF. Though the system was somewhat different from mine, it was easy to hear what the dac was bringing to the table, and it was wonderful. More of everything the original Tranquility offers without giving up anything in terms of tone and that analog-like smoothness.
I have one of those modified Mac minis here and am still figuring out how to make it all work with the built-in screenreader, but what I have heard suggests that I'm in for the best listening I've ever experienced.
I think it would not be unheard of to follow the Tranquility Signature by some of the very best gear and speakers and to think it was right at home with the rest of the system -- no the weak link.
Some of the cuts I heard at the show would knock the socks off the most jaded audiophile -- especially if you added up the cost of the entire system.
Great stuff!
-- Jim
-
That was exactly my impression after listening to the Signature with the modified 2010 mini at RMAF. Though the system was somewhat different from mine, it was easy to hear what the dac was bringing to the table, and it was wonderful. More of everything the original Tranquility offers without giving up anything in terms of tone and that analog-like smoothness. I have one of those modified Mac minis here and am still figuring out how to make it all work with the built-in screenreader, but what I have heard suggests that I'm in for the best listening I've ever experienced. I think it would not be unheard of to follow the Tranquility Signature by some of the very best gear and speakers and to think it was right at home with the rest of the system -- no the weak link. Some of the cuts I heard at the show would knock the socks off the most jaded audiophile -- especially if you added up the cost of the entire system.
Make no mistake this is serious stuff and we have not fully optimized it yet either so even better is to come. But I want to emphasize something. This DAC is very, very, neutral and transparent. Most people have not heard stuff this neutral and transparent - especially at this price point. It may polarize some not used to this level of accuracy. Will almost certainly have more to say on this issue as the break-in proceeds. Suffice to say when fed with very well recorded material it quite possibly may blow your mind - but I don't want to say anything specific until the break-in is complete.
Thanks
Bill
-
But I want to emphasize something. This DAC is very, very, neutral and transparent. Most people have not heard stuff this neutral and transparent - especially at this price point. It may polarize some not used to this level of accuracy.
On the other hand, once you get used to it, you'll never want to give it up.
What is the minimum amount of break-in that Eric suggests? Man, these comments are killing me. I keep hoping my Signature will be on my doorstep every time I come home. Not yet.. Maybe tomorrow...
-
On the other hand, once you get used to it, you'll never want to give it up. What is the minimum amount of break-in that Eric suggests? Man, these comments are killing me. I keep hoping my Signature will be on my doorstep every time I come home. Not yet.. Maybe tomorrow...
I think Eric recommends something like a couple of weeks use. We have got ours on constant break-in at the moment.
Thanks
Bill
-
On the other hand, once you get used to it, you'll never want to give it up.
What is the minimum amount of break-in that Eric suggests? Man, these comments are killing me. I keep hoping my Signature will be on my doorstep every time I come home. Not yet.. Maybe tomorrow...
Tell me about it, I've got the Signature USB cable burning-in right now, but await the Tranquility Signature. Damn you shipping... :drool:
-
Its dead set simple - you simply enable memory playback - that's it.
Thanks
Bill
Bill would you elaborate on the above....not sure what you're referring to ?
thanks, Dave
-
"Trade-up program" : As good measure to our loyal Tranquility customers; who have supported us from the very beginning! We are offering them a "full purchase value" trade-up of your original Tranquility dac for just the difference in price between what you paid and the $1895 price. Example_ If you paid $1295 for your original dac, plus $600 gets you into the Signature dac. Hence the "full value" of your original purchase toward the Signature's current price. This applies ONLY to current Tranquility customers who have purchased their dac directly from dB Audio Labs. Trade-up dacs cannot have been modified or damaged. This trade-up program will be offered for a very limited time and is non-negotiable.
Guys:
I shipped my Tranquility DAC to dB Audio Labs today to take advantage of the above offer before Eric decides the very limited upgrade time has expired. While I have been excited about the Tranquility SE since I first heard about it a few weeks ago I was actually reluctant to part with my Tranquility. This little DAC has produced nothing but very enjoyable music for me. I have given in to upgrade itis because, frankly, I trust Eric Hider when he comments to me that the SE has superior sonic quality compared to the base Tranquility. Now the darn waiting game begins!
Ken
-
Ken,
You will not be disappointed given what I heard at RMAF this past weekend.
I just gave Eric my credit card and a new Signature will be on it's way to me shortly.
The base Tranquility is still wonderful as ever, but I want more, more, more! :-) In fact, I wish I could afford to hold on to the original so I could use it in another system, but that just isn't possible.
-- Jim
-
Bill would you elaborate on the above....not sure what you're referring to ?
Simply click on advanced options and ensure memory playback is enabled. You may like to enable hog mode as well. How to do that has been detailed previously in this thread,
Thanks
Bill
-
To those who have the tranquility, would you think a tube or a ss amp would go best with it?
-
My Siggie arrived today 8)
Have it burning in on some cheap active speakers while I wait for my amp to return with upgrades.
I guess at this point, one can never be too sure. But I really like what I hear so far, and cannot wait to feed this into some real speakers.
-
To those who have the tranquility, would you think a tube or a ss amp would go best with it?
Tube. IMHO.
-
To those who have the tranquility, would you think a tube or a ss amp would go best with it?
I think this is a very neutral and transparent DAC that will let the signature of whatever amp you use with it shine. What I can tell you is when I fed it into a budget (but still very good) amp, the Sonofagum, it outshone another DAC feeding a much better amp:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/REDGUM-amplifier-SonofaGUM-SG5500-60-60WRMS-/320588820053?pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item4aa4952e55#ht_1833wt_905
My advice is to start with an amp like that and check it out with a few different amps until you get the one you like best.
Thanks
Bill
-
Tube. IMHO.
Bill, rpf,
thanks for your feedback. I am currently using a very lean and dry sounding amp. If I am hearing correctly, the tranquility is lean as well. Not sure if the system will end up sounding analytical and lose musciality?
-
Bill, rpf,
thanks for your feedback. I am currently using a very lean and dry sounding amp. If I am hearing correctly, the tranquility is lean as well. Not sure if the system will end up sounding analytical and lose musciality?
The Tranquility is not "lean" in any sense. It is musical, fluid, and accurate. It will be an open window to the source material and to any colorations in the amp or preamp. If the amp and preamp are accurate and uncolored, and the speakers are neutral then you will be getting very very close to what is in the recording (for better or for worse).
-
To those who have the tranquility, would you think a tube or a ss amp would go best with it?
I personally own a Moscode 402AU Hybrid but I think the answer to your question depends on whether or not you prefer sound produced from tubes in your system.
Let us know what you decide.
Ken
-
thanks for your feedback. I am currently using a very lean and dry sounding amp. If I am hearing correctly, the tranquility is lean as well. Not sure if the system will end up sounding analytical and lose musciality?
Hmmmmm. This is a difficult one. Heard in isolation the Tranquility sounded very musical, liquid, smooth and analogue like and anything but lean and dry. I have heard some died in the wool valve guys describe its sound as hard, but less 'biased' listeners vehemently disagreed with this. That said when compared to a valve DAC some have described as a bit 'hot' it did sound lean and dry - but only in comparison. This in fact generated quite a bit of discussion amongst those that heard it, and the consensus was the Tranquility is very neutral and transparent, while the valve amp was perhaps voiced slightly differently. I know what the designer of the valve DAC was trying to achieve and my gut feeling is he has departed from strict neutrality in an effort to make your average recordings sound real to his ears compared to live events he attends. Now I wont go into the advantages and disadvantages of this approach except to say a lot could be said on both sides. Ok - what is the bottom line here? IMHO it is the Tranquility will only sound lean and dry if you are used to equipment that is not. Do you like the lean dry sound of your amp? Then I don't think the Tranquility will change that. If you don't like it then I would suggest an amp change but only after you have had it for a while and tried a few.
Thanks
Bill
-
I am currently using a very lean and dry sounding amp. If I am hearing correctly, the tranquility is lean as well. Not sure if the system will end up sounding analytical and lose musciality?
Sorry, I posted earlier prior to reading your later post! Are you connecting the Tranquility directly to the amp? In my experience the Tranquility does not add warmth to a system. The Tranquility is not sterile or bright sounding and to me (and others) has an analog (turntable) sounding quality to it.
I personally prefer tubes in my system and am currently feeding the Tranquility into a Audio Research Ref 1 Preamp and then into the Moscode which has a tube input stage. I talked to Eric Hider earlier in the week about the possibility of running the Tranquility directly to the Moscode and using the volume control in Pure Music to control system volume. Typical of Eric his advice was to try it to see if I would like it. He commented that the music with the Tranquility to Amp connection would have a very distinct character which I might or might not prefer to the music produced with the preamp.
I look forward to reading more about your system and your results.
Ken
-
Wow, thanks for all the comments and making a newbie feel welcomed! Yikes I am torn between the pdx and the tranquility! While I seriously appreciate the liquidity and analogue sound of the tranquility (reading from reviews) but it looks like the tranquility is facing some serious competition from the pdx as described by bill. My amps are ss and thereotically, using a valve front end would help with the lean ness of the amp. Not that I do not like the neutral sound, but it may be too much! Ha, what an exciting yet frustating time to be in!
-
I believe that The source should be as true, transparent, neutral and uncolored as possible ... it seems that Tranquility is just that ... the source should be agnostic of tube or solid state in front of it ... it should just deliver the goods ...
-
I believe that The source should be as true, transparent, neutral and uncolored as possible ... it seems that Tranquility is just that ... the source should be agnostic of tube or solid state in front of it ... it should just deliver the goods ...
The Tranquility is true, transparent, neutral and uncolored. I think many of us. at least I do, prefer having some tubes somewhere in the system to reduce what I call sterile, clinical sound of all total SS Systems I have heard. It is not that I don't enjoy the extreme detail I just find I tire of listening to that type of sound very quickly versus the relaxing style I obtain with the right tubes in the system.
While I seriously appreciate the liquidity and analogue sound of the tranquility (reading from reviews) but it looks like the tranquility is facing some serious competition from the pdx as described by bill.
If the USB only connection is not an issue to you I believe you will have to spend at least twice the price of a Tranquility to match its performance. Even if you move up to a much more expensive DAC I recommend you try it in your system before purchase as I suspect the Tranquility is not what is preventing you from being happy with the sound of your system.
I am just bummed out at the moment because my Tranquility is on its way to Ohio for upgrade to the SE Version. I am sitting here with a system without a source. :duh: :duh: :duh:
Ken
-
I find myself in the same situation - being drawn to toobs ... :P and I find the best place for me to have tubes is in the Pre section ... they provide slight warmth and glow ... without sacrificing dynamics, drive and transparency ...
But for each person they have to find what works for them ... apparently Ayon and others are doing good things with tube output stages in their source ...
-
I find myself in the same situation - being drawn to toobs ... :P and I find the best place for me to have tubes is in the Pre section ... they provide slight warmth and glow ... without sacrificing dynamics, drive and transparency ...
But for each person they have to find what works for them ... apparently Ayon and others are doing good things with tube output stages in their source ...
A nice alternative to consider in place of a tube-based preamp is the Wyred4Sound STP-SE preamp. I have one and compared to tubes it retains the excellent timbre and vivid realism that tubes can provide but is much more detailed and has better bass than a lot of tubes setups I've heard. It also is designed to mate well with a variety of amps (and certainly handles the Tranquility input nicely). Compared to the amp, I've found the preamp to have a much larger affect on the sound (after settling on the Tranquility as a reference on the source end).
Happy listening! :thumb:
-
Wow, thanks for all the comments and making a newbie feel welcomed! Yikes I am torn between the pdx and the tranquility! While I seriously appreciate the liquidity and analogue sound of the tranquility (reading from reviews) but it looks like the tranquility is facing some serious competition from the pdx as described by bill. My amps are ss and thereotically, using a valve front end would help with the lean ness of the amp. Not that I do not like the neutral sound, but it may be too much! Ha, what an exciting yet frustating time to be in!
Especially for you guys in the US the PDX will be much more expensive. The base grade PDX will cost you guys about $2000.00 and when I compared it directly to the base grade Tranquility there was hardly anything in it. The outcome was clear - get the Tranquility if you live in the US. Here in Australia other factors come into it and it is not so clear cut. The PDX is not the only more expensive DAC to come close to the Tranquility - at least two comparisons I have read found the PS Audio DAC to be comparable to the Tranquility. Here in Australia I found the Tranquility to be one of the three best DAC's I and others have heard. The exact order is a personal preference. The key point however is of those DAC's the Tranquility is by far the cheapest. IMHO the result is pretty clear - get the Tranquility. Well actually what would be better is to come out to the Gold Coast here in Australia where we will be able to compare the DAC's for you and you can choose. Obviously though this will almost certainly not be practical so you will have to base it on others who have done that opinions. Having done that I recommend the Tranquility in your situation. I personally have both the PDX and Tranquility.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi folks
I have had my Tranquility for about a week now. It got hung up in Canadian Customs and took forever to get here, but the wait was worth it.
I have a W4S STI500 integrated amp and GR OB7's. I find this DAC is a delicious match with the W4S amp. It does not sound dry or lean to me at all. In fact it is much fuller and real sounding then my old DAC a Behringer DEQ2496. I would say it is neutral(natural) overall. This thing sounds beautiful with everything I play on it. Classical, Jazz, Blues, Country or whatever. I was the biggest sceptic out there about this product. Believe me this is the real deal, a genuine game changing product IMO.
In my system I can now listen much louder without suffering from listening fatigue. So this 16bit solution has more dynamic range in my listening room than the 24bit 96K Behringer.
Cheers
Brian
-
In my experience the Tranquility does not add warmth to a system. The Tranquility is not sterile or bright sounding and to me (and others) has an analog (turntable) sounding quality to it.
I think that sums it up very well. The Tranquility is not dry - it only sounds that way when compared to a DAC that is warm - since it adds no warmth of its own. That is probably the better approach since once warmth is added it is hard to get rid of.
Thanks
Bill
-
I do agree that the preamp is a good place to add some tubes. I have heard a tube preamp in my system and while it is difficult to say that it is an improvement, but it certainly gives a more immersive experience. A different sort of presentation. Also the point that the source should be transparent and neutral does certainly make sense. One can then muck around with the preamp to get the sonic qualities to their taste.
-
Connected to my MacBook Pro, the Ayre QB-9 is a much better DAC than the Tranquility connected to same.
However, the Tranquility is better if connected to the Mac Mini.
Think this must be because the QB-9 has async USB and is hence more resilient to the quality of the transport.
If you're planning to get the 2010 Mac Mini anyway, then the Tranquility is great value. If you aren't, the Ayre QB-9 may be a more reliable choice.
Having said that, I highly recommend the Tranquility SE and Mac Mini. Really terrific.
-
Finally got the signature in my system. I previously had it in Milke Lenehans reference system and was hoping Mike could do some break in for me but he is a bit busy (and not to mention totally tired and drained from getting the first production run of his ML3's done) so wasn't able to get a lot of break in on it. Because of that I won't comment too much on the sound except to say we did quite a bit of experimenting down at Mikes yesterday and can assure everyone it sounds excellent. In my system, because I had the standard Tranquility in there for so long I know how that sounds and can say the signature is better even with only a little break in on it. Also guys after chatting with Mike yesterday I have to wimp out and not discuss what we heard when we compared it to some other DAC's. They were different enough for us to think people really should try and make their way to Mike's place on the Gold Coast and hear the differences for themselves. Rest assured this DAC is excellent and you can buy it with confidence - it is just that some DAC's are voiced a little differently and rather than say this DAC is better and reveal your preferences we felt it was better to simply say it's up there.
Like the poster above I also highly recommend the Tranquility SE and mac mini
Thanks
Bill
-
Hmm.. does anyone know how the tranquility compares with the bel canto dac 2.5?
Also, how would the tranquility compare with cdps such as the marantz / rega/ naim
Thanks for feedback
-
Hmm.. does anyone know how the tranquility compares with the bel canto dac 2.5?
Also, how would the tranquility compare with cdps such as the marantz / rega/ naim
Thanks for feedback
I haven't seen anyone compare the Tranquility to the Bel Canto 2.5. However, the Tranquility is finely tuned for one purpose: USB in and RCA out. No multiple inputs and outputs, no displays or remotes. That allows every dollar to go into the best possible sound for a single purpose. The Tranquility also sells direct vs. through dealers, so you are automatically getting 40%-60% more for your money. That doesn't mean the Bel Canto isn't as good as the Tranquility: I have only heard my Tranquility and a couple other DACs. However, if I had to place a bet on the outcome of a head-to-head comparison I would expect the Tranquility sounds better to most folks.
Regarding CD players, I think the consensus has been for some time that a good hard-drive based system beats a good CD player. I haven't owned a CD player in a few years now, and I expect they will fade out of use among audiophiles over the next few years. It will be more of a vinyl and music server world. So, again, I don't have a direct answer.
Don't know if that helps.
-
I took my Tranquility SE down to a local Hi Fi store yesterday. When the guy heard it he started scratching his head. I asked what he thought. He said - man is this thing accurate and neutral but it has not a trace of coldness or analyticality - its just so liquid and smooth. I asked how it compared to the vinyl stuff he sells. He said while he sells it he actually doesn't like vinyl - too many clicks pops etc. He has a highly colored DAC himself he likes so off the top of his head he thought the Tranquility was not to his taste. I have heard this mentioned before and think I know the cause - to really show this DAC off you need some well recorded material. OK I pop on some material I know is well recorded like Tom Jones Praise and Blame. Wow that sounds really good. He listens some more - the more he listens the more he says - this DAC is growing on me. He listens further and says how much is this DAC and I tell him. You can get that sound for this? He thought it was a $10K DAC. The final verdict was he can see this DAC really growing on him and can't believe it costs so little for what you get.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hmm.. does anyone know how the tranquility compares with the bel canto dac 2.5? Also, how would the tranquility compare with cdps such as the marantz / rega/ naim
I have not done the comparison to the Bel Canto but I know someone who has compared the Belcanto to an Audio GD. The Audio GD clobbered the Belcanto - no contest - and caused the person who had the Belcanto to breath a sigh of relief - he had it on trial and was nearly going to buy it. I have heard the Audio GD and IMHO the Tranquility bests it - but it is not a chalk and cheese thing - the Audio GD is actually quite good. Not in the upper echelon of the best DAC's I have heard like the Tranquility is - but not far from it.
Thanks
Bill
-
The Audio GD clobbered the Belcanto
Which "Audio GD"? There is like a dozen different Audio GD DAC's by now..
-
Which "Audio GD"? There is like a dozen different Audio GD DAC's by now..
The Ref 5
Thanks
Bill
-
Man, you need to start working for db Labs and get paid for what you do ... :thumb:
I took my Tranquility SE down to a local Hi Fi store yesterday. When the guy heard it he started scratching his head. I asked what he thought. He said - man is this thing accurate and neutral but it has not a trace of coldness or analyticality - its just so liquid and smooth. I asked how it compared to the vinyl stuff he sells. He said while he sells it he actually doesn't like vinyl - too many clicks pops etc. He has a highly colored DAC himself he likes so off the top of his head he thought the Tranquility was not to his taste. I have heard this mentioned before and think I know the cause - to really show this DAC off you need some well recorded material. OK I pop on some material I know is well recorded like Tom Jones Praise and Blame. Wow that sounds really good. He listens some more - the more he listens the more he says - this DAC is growing on me. He listens further and says how much is this DAC and I tell him. You can get that sound for this? He thought it was a $10K DAC. The final verdict was he can see this DAC really growing on him and can't believe it costs so little for what you get.
Thanks
Bill
-
Man, you need to start working for db Labs and get paid for what you do ... :thumb:
I am retired with far too much time on my hands and it was a bit of fun.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hey, anyone here with the Tranquility Signature can comment of the sound quality after burn in?
-
The Ref 5
Thanks
Bill
The Audio-GD Ref 7 ($1800 instead of $800) is now the standard there, according to many folks I know (and according to headFi forums). There is also a new Sabre DAC he's doing, but reviews are yet forthcoming.
-
You're probably looking for a comparison of the Tranquility versus the Tranquility Signature Edition. I can't comment on that because I haven't heard the base Tranquility.
In the past 2 months I've also had the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the Ayre QB-9 in my home.
The W4S DAC-2 went balanced outputs direct to the Atma-sphere S-30. I found the DAC-2 had a somewhat brittle top end which was only addressed when I inserted the Red Wine Audio Isabella preamplifier in-between. Whether this is because of the DAC chip being used, the relatively low sensitivity of the S-30, the rest of my system, or the DAC-2's output stage isn't as good as claimed, I'm not sure.
With the Isabella in-between, the DAC-2 is detailed, nearly crystalline as the 6moons review describes, but not to my ears particularly musical. Analogue like are not the words I would use to describe the DAC-2. For many systems I would guess that the DAC-2 is just what the doctor ordered.
The Ayre QB-9 is an excellent piece, and if I hadn't heard the Tranquility SE, I would have purchased the QB-9. You can hear the apodizing filter at work on the QB-9: there is a slight euphonic halo at the top end of the QB-9 which some have described as rolled off, others have described as slightly veiled. It's a very minor concession in exchange for the 3-dimensionality and naturalness of the QB-9.
The QB-9 is across the board better than the Tranquility SE when using the Macbook Pro as transport. Extrapolating, I'd say that the Tranquility and Tranquility SE are both somewhat sensitive to transport, and if you want to be robust and resilient against varying quality of transport, the asynchronous USB implementation which is part and parcel of the QB-9 is exactly what you want.
The 2010 Mac Mini is a game changer for the Tranquility SE. In this configuration, the Tranquility SE exceeds the QB-9. Highs are extended but never fatiguing, there is great clarity, sound stage grows in both depth and width, and music flows naturally like spinning good quality vinyl. I will no doubt offend vinyl lovers here when I say that I am now considering whether I should find a new home for the vintage JVC QL-Y66F turntable and Ray Samuels Nighthawk phono stage.
In my DAC travels, I'd say that the Red Wine Audio Isabellina DAC with Empirical Audio Off Ramp 3 and BPT battery supply compares well (although not identically) to the Tranquility SE with 2010 Mac Mini. Having said that, I will confess that when I owned the Isabellina + Off Ramp 3 + BPT combination, I would not have considered getting rid of my vinyl rig. Whether that's a meaningful input or I just happen to have different priorities now, I'm not sure.
If you already own the Isabellina (or some other favorite DAC) a perfectly reasonable option may be to buy an Off Ramp 4 for $800 and add the Paul Hynes regulator upgrade for another $250 and be done with it. I think the Empirical gear is very good indeed, although you do pay dearly for it as I think it's the most expensive and appropriately best USB to SPDIF converter on the market. Personally, I wanted the Mac Mini anyway, and the one box Tranquility SE is a nice simplification in a complex world.
NET - with the appropriate transport, the Tranquility SE is among the finest digital front ends I've ever heard.
-
The 2010 Mac Mini is a game changer for the Tranquility SE. In this configuration, the Tranquility SE exceeds the QB-9.
Do you mean Tran SE+Mac mini is better than QB-9+Mac mini and/or QB-9+MacBook Pro?
-
I just got my new Tranquility SE and Essential USB cable SE. Out of the box the sound in comparison to the regular Tranquility and Essential USB cable is more fluid, detailed, open, and has better bass definition and timbre. The original Tranquility was not bad at all in any of those respects, but the SE does up the ante.
I'll run it in for 200 hours and report back. First impressions, however, are very good, and the upgrade seems well worth it to me.
P.S. The Tranquility SE is noticeably heavier than the original Tranquility (for what it's worth).
-
Do you mean Tran SE+Mac mini is better than QB-9+Mac mini and/or QB-9+MacBook Pro?
I didn't test the QB-9 against the 2010 Mac Mini, but other user impressions have suggested that the quality of the QB-9 does not change by much from transport to transport. This makes sense to me, as you would expect asynchronous USB to be generally robust and resilient against varying quality of transport, so long as those transports are at least bit perfect.
But to answer your question, the Tranquility SE + 2010 Mac Mini is clearly better (to my ears, in my system) than the Ayre QB-9 + Macbook Pro.
-
This makes sense to me, as you would expect asynchronous USB to be generally robust and resilient against varying quality of transport, so long as those transports are at least bit perfect.
Asynch or not, I do not believe there is a DAC available today that is truly immune to transport/digital-USB cable quality. Often claimed, yes, but so far never in practice. For example, compare the Tranquility SE USB cable on the QB-9 vs. cheap generic USB cable and see if sound remains the same. I would be interested in how QB-9 sounds with Mac Mini myself..
-
John L,
As far as I'm concerned, you're correct. I have had and do have several async dacs -- Wavelength Proton and Cosecant, and HRT MusicStreamer II +, and all of them have benefitted noticeably from better usb cables and various tweaks to the computers feeding them -- i.e. better data integrity from source file to dac receiver chip.
-- Jim
-
I've had my Tranquility Sig. running for about a full week now. 2010 Mac Mini with SSD, 8g ram, Oyade external fw drive for music files, using Pure Music. I have Dave's Elledge (as well as his Uber Buss on the dac) cords on both the mini and dac.
I'm coming from a MW Transporter, and more recently an EE dac (which will likely go in a second system).
I'm really excited with the sound of the Tranq. Sig.! Everything sounds so natural for want of a better term. My 300B SET amp, driving Daedalus DA-RMas seems to be a really good match.
More ( and comparisons to the EE dac) later.
Randy
-
Hi Guys
Just for the heck of it I decided to download AyreWave and give it a go through the Tranquility SE. Didn't expect much over Pure Music. But when I did WOW.
First for some reason it is louder which means I can have the volume lower so I now don't notice a slight buzz/hum issue I had. BTW guys the buzz/hum is not in the Tranquility. To check that I fed the Tranquility direct (no volume control) into some 500W Macintosh 501's and fed them to some 89db speakers and got only a slight buzz/hum with my ears next to the speakers. But for some reason it is worse in my system. Decided to try a better power chord into the Tranquility and it did seem to lower the buzz a bit but I noticed other improvements as well such as better detail.
But with AireWave detail, air, accuracy, staging improved, and stuff I really can't get a handle on well enough to put into words changed except to say it is more realistic. Right now I prefer it to Pure Music
Listening to Simon and Garfunkle right now and man it sounds good. Highly recommend you give it a go.
Thanks
Bill
-
I replaced my MHDT Paradisea with the Tranquility and a new USB cable from Eric and voila....great improvements all around...highs are toned down, better musicality for lack of a better word, less fatigue-ability......big upgrade for me for sure.....thanks guys!
-
Just received a Tranquility DAC SE and Essential Cable from Db Audio labs. I learned about the DAC from reading this thread and decided to try one after speaking to Eric for nearly an hour last week.
I have only been listening for 24 hours so I expect the sound will continue to improve over the next couple of weeks, but even at this stage I am blown away by the sound coming out of this DAC. It is easily the best digital front end that I have heard. To be fair, I have not compared it against some of the more highly regarded DAC's in this thread. My experience has been with a Musical Fidelity XDAC v8, a Wavelength Brick and and HRT Streamer Pro. Even at this early stage, the Tranquility DAC SE is producing sound far superior to anything I have heard in the past.
The sound is exactly as I have heard it described on earlier posts. Huge soundstage, very fine detail within a very relaxed presentation; Instruments are clearly defined in space and extremely musical; low frequency resolution is also excellent.
My wife immediately noticed the difference as well. The music just grooves like no other digital source I have heard.
I am running a Mac Mini through Pure Music and have not performed the tweaks suggested in earlier posts. I will be doing those later today so will be interested to see how much further improvement those make.
My initial impressions are very positive and I could not be more pleased with the purchase.
System -- Mac Mini (2008), BAT VK-55SE Amp, Audio Research LS-26 Preamp, Tranquility DAC SE, Essential USB Cable, Magnepan 1.7's, entry level Shunyata power conditioner and cords, Kimber and Transparent cabling
-
Hi
I found that the bass improved from good to amazing over a period of time- perhaps 100hrs or so of listening. I have the regular Tranquility not the SE, but I am running the Essential cable. The sound of Ray Brown's bass on his Don't get Sassy cd is incredibly nuanced and powerful. Enjoy the ride. It only gets better!
Brian
-
Hi Guys,
Any PC users here? I would like to know if Tranquility supports Kernel Streaming protocol, which is a must in case of my player of choice (XXHighEnd). Anyone could confirm this? I'd appreciate it.
Best regards,
Marcin
-
Hi Guys,
Any PC users here?
I would be interested to know as well since getting an Apple might not be a foreseeable option!
-
No problem with kernel streaming and the Tranquility dacs. In order of quality from lowest to highest, here's what I've used with an old Asus Eee Box running XP Home:
asio4all, usb-asio, foobar's internal kernel streaming, and foobar KS in combination with the AQVox asio driver. Even asio4all is a large improvement over direct sound, but is otherwise pretty far behind the other options when it comes to sound quality.
HTH,
Jim
-
No problem with kernel streaming and the Tranquility dacs. In order of quality from lowest to highest, here's what I've used with an old Asus Eee Box running XP Home:
asio4all, usb-asio, foobar's internal kernel streaming, and foobar KS in combination with the AQVox asio driver. Even asio4all is a large improvement over direct sound, but is otherwise pretty far behind the other options when it comes to sound quality.
HTH,
Jim
Jim,
I still haven't upgraded from ASIO4ALL. But my next move is likely to be upgrade my operating system so I can employ WASAPI (or whatever it is). You haven't been tempted to head in this direction? (I presume the Eee box is a constraint to heading in this direction).
Chad
-
Hi Chad,
Well, I don't actually know. I suppose a stripped down version of win 7 could be installed on the Asus if you were dedicating it to audio, but I haven't tried this myself. The newer Asus boxes as well as the Acer Revo seem to be coming with win7 basic. However, I don't actually know if wasapi will be an improvement or not. Some people I've talked to think that it's not all as simple as switching to wasapi and all your troubles go away and your system sounds like you just dropped another $50k into it.
The 2010 mac mini with Mach2 mods does that :-).
There are demos of usb-asio and aqvox asio, and it won't hurt to give them a try to see what you think. Some folks do not like the aqvox driver, but I think it sounds quite good with the Tranquility or SE, but there are so many variables it's hard to predict how it will work for you. The asus box has not had the full treatment as far as stripping down the OS yet, and then there's still the SSD and linear psu to try. All it takes is money... and time -- both of which are at a premium right now.
-- Jim
-
Hi Chad,
Well, I don't actually know. I suppose a stripped down version of win 7 could be installed on the Asus if you were dedicating it to audio, but I haven't tried this myself. The newer Asus boxes as well as the Acer Revo seem to be coming with win7 basic. However, I don't actually know if wasapi will be an improvement or not. Some people I've talked to think that it's not all as simple as switching to wasapi and all your troubles go away and your system sounds like you just dropped another $50k into it.
The 2010 mac mini with Mach2 mods does that :-).
There are demos of usb-asio and aqvox asio, and it won't hurt to give them a try to see what you think. Some folks do not like the aqvox driver, but I think it sounds quite good with the Tranquility or SE, but there are so many variables it's hard to predict how it will work for you. The asus box has not had the full treatment as far as stripping down the OS yet, and then there's still the SSD and linear psu to try. All it takes is money... and time -- both of which are at a premium right now.
-- Jim
I'd like to share some thoughts on the mini mac vs pc with the tranquility dac (or any other dac for that matter). The Mac Mini seems to trounce the PC and the Mac Book Pro in dac audio performance in all the reviews I've read. I know there are lots of knowledgable people on this forum and any insight after my post would be appreciated.
My first point would be is that: How can the MAC OS make a difference as the same OS tweaks can be made on the Mac book pro as the Mac Mini? This makes me think that it would rule out out any advantage accredited "SOLELY" to the Mac OS.
So would it be wrong to assume that all the advantages to the mini mac would be in the lack of "noise", whichever kind, generated from the hardware and layout of the Mac Mini into the Dac. Do you think this is where the Mac Mini has the advantage over PC'S and other MAC's?
-
I have tried a PC, a Mac Mini running Windows, and a Mac Mini running the Mac operating system and the Mac Mini running its OS works best for me. The reason the Mac Mini is better has been discussed elsewhere in this tread, so I won't rehash it except for one point - it is basically a carved out piece of aluminium so RFI issues are reduced - but as I said that is just one point - plenty of others favor the mini as well. I have tried the Tranquility with a macbook pro and a mini with a number of experienced listeners and all preferred the mini. It left them scratching their heads but thats the skinny.
It's not the OS that makes the mac operating system the better choice it is the availability of the better players on the mac OS. I have compared J River running on the mac under windows to both ITunes and Pure Music. J River is better than ITunes and Pure Music is better again - however the best I have found is AyreWave.
If you have a look through the history of this thread you will find I was skeptical of the mac's superiority but having done the comparisons to me the choice is clear - get a mac mini and run AyreWave.
Thanks
Bill
-
Bill, et al:
You really owe it to yourself to try Audirvana as may be found in the following link:
http://code.google.com/p/audirvana/
It, like Ayrewave, is free. Be sure to look under "Audirvana" in the menu at the top margin and under "preferences" as it will not default to an external DAC for playback. Please also note it requires OS X 10.6, and I prefer it in 64 bit mode. To my, as well as several others ears, it betters Ayrewave, representing the best sound available for a computer.
All this may change as various playback software packages mature; but, it is genuinely exciting times for computer audio!
Enjoy,
L.D. Moore
-
It's not the OS that makes the mac operating system the better choice it is the availability of the better players on the mac OS.
Thanks
Bill
Thanks Bill, I have read the whole thread and it is more out of curiosity than skeptisism is why I ask. If it was the OS then the Mac Book Pro would have the same gains as the Mini. Now the RFI point you make, makes the most sense. So this RFI interference would be coming from the computers various processes, fans etc to the output of the computer USB into the dac where the interference shows up, correct?
Bill, I am not doubting the superiority of the Mini due to it being a quieter (interference wise) machine, but I am also wondering why someone cannot come up with a cheaper method of eliminating these interferences that make the difference on all computers, I will probably eventually going with a Mac Mini, but would rather stay with what I have which is the pc.
Bill I wonder what difference this would make, I may check this out to see if it makes any difference. it is a very low noise power supply (inserted just before the usb cable enters the dac) and if you read down the page it explains what kind of "rippling an noise" it eliminates.
Edit: oops forgot the link, here :thumb: http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
-
Bill, et al:
You really owe it to yourself to try Audirvana as may be found in the following link:
http://code.google.com/p/audirvana/
It, like Ayrewave, is free. Be sure to look under "Audirvana" in the menu at the top margin and under "preferences" as it will not default to an external DAC for playback. Please also note it requires OS X 10.6, and I prefer it in 64 bit mode. To my, as well as several others ears, it betters Ayrewave, representing the best sound available for a computer.
All this may change as various playback software packages mature; but, it is genuinely exciting times for computer audio!
Enjoy,
L.D. Moore
I've been comparing AyreWave and Audirvana this morning. They both have excruciatingly bad user interfaces. Audirvana has no library and it erases your playlist after closing so each time you use it you have to go to your hard drive and import songs again. It will not load a folder of songs by selecting the folder--you have to select the songs individually. Once they are loaded you can't search them. The rest of the interface is equally bad. There's a gimmicky picture of a stereo component that serves no purpose. I wastes a lot of space duplicating information about what track is playing, randomly closes the whole program if you click in the wrong spot, and looks ugly.
AyreWave is at least trying to provide a clean, functional interface, but it's badly buggy. It will attempt to load a full folder of music (with sub-folders) into its library, but it loses metadata on most of them and just loads the filename (not the track name or other information). If you close it when a search is active then it deletes everything from the library that wasn't in the search results. And there are no playlists. Playback from memory is not gapless: it introduces a dropout between tracks. But at least AyreWave doesn't try to introduce a digital volume control into the signal path like Audirvana does.
Both AyreWave and Audirvana play songs from memory (although AyreWave does it with dropouts between songs), so the sound from them is inherently (and in observation) better than Play or iTunes, which both stream from the hard drive. (See my profile for system configuration--I use an Oyen Digital external drive connected via FW800 for my music files).
Audirvana, according to the info on Google Code, fully relies on the built-in 32-bit Core Audio on the Mac as does iTunes. With respect to sound quality Audivarna could be thought of as iTunes with playback from memory. Audirvana does provide FLAC playback, auto-resolution switching, and some other features that iTunes currently does not, so if it emerges from alpha with any polish it might be a nice upgrade from iTunes.
AyreWave hands audio off to Stephen Booth's own audio package, SFBAudioEngine. It handles decoding in 64-bits prior to handoff to Core Audio as far as I understand. I recall reference to SFBAudioEngine being based on an open source package, but those references seem to be gone now from the sbooth site and the About section of the software. Stephen Booth intends to sell AyreWave rather than maintain it as freeware, so it's curious that the references to it's open source underpinnings are gone (or maybe I just looked in all the wrong places this morning and couldn't find them).
AyreWave in comparison to Audirvana is more detailed and open. Bass is more tuneful and defined. Highs are cleaner. I listened to various tracks from Tom Waits's Mule Variations, and AyreWave provided better separation among instruments, a much greater sense of openness, and more detail across the board. The vocals were also a bit fuller. Audirvana can smooth things over in a way that is pleasing for casual listening on some songs, but I kept coming back to the more accurate AyreWave presentation. I hope that all of the problems with it are addressed and it isn't overpriced like other audio software.
-
Thanks Bill, I have read the whole thread and it is more out of curiosity than skeptisism is why I ask. If it was the OS then the Mac Book Pro would have the same gains as the Mini. Now the RFI point you make, makes the most sense. So this RFI interference would be coming from the computers various processes, fans etc to the output of the computer USB into the dac where the interference shows up, correct? Bill, I am not doubting the superiority of the Mini due to it being a quieter (interference wise) machine, but I am also wondering why someone cannot come up with a cheaper method of eliminating these interferences that make the difference on all computers, I will probably eventually going with a Mac Mini, but would rather stay with what I have which is the pc. Bill I wonder what difference this would make, I may check this out to see if it makes any difference. it is a very low noise power supply (inserted just before the usb cable enters the dac) and if you read down the page it explains what kind of "rippling an noise" it eliminates.
Although I am reasonably technically literate I am not an engineer so I can't really say why you can't come up with something cheaper than a mini. But I can guess - in the context of sales the number sold to Hi Fi nuts is minuscule. No one is going to investigate this stuff because the market is simply not good enough. I have read of some companies that do some deep mods to the Mini but the price did not look promising. Your best bet is the mass produced computer that is best for audio - and that is the mini. If cost constraints rule it out right now - save up for it. It will still work fine with other machines machine - just not optimally.
Thanks
Bill
-
So would it be wrong to assume that all the advantages to the mini mac would be in the lack of "noise", whichever kind, generated from the hardware and layout of the Mac Mini into the Dac. Do you think this is where the Mac Mini has the advantage over PC'S and other MAC's?
But it could also be hardware and software interfaces too. For example, the Mac Mini hardware is not necessarily the same as the Macbook Pro hardware and that would imply different device drivers. And different hardware and different device drivers could imply a different performance profile. And this might mean different jitter characteristics as the data sent out through USB may be clocked out differently.
Quite frankly, I have no idea. I'm a software developer by trade, but USB and audio jitter is not my area. RFI is certainly not my area. Could be RFI, could be other things. I wouldn't say definitively that it's one thing or another given that no rigorous analysis has yet been done.
-
Some help with volume levels appreciated.
I have a new Mac Mini going directly into the DB Labs Dac and then directly into the amp (no preamp).
Itunes - Volume levels work but audio is noisy at low levels
Pure Music - Volume levels work normal low to high
Play - extremely hot can only move volume a little off rest and loud.
AyreWave - Full blast volume no controls.
Something doesn't seem right - any comments?
Jeff
-
PureMusic works perfectly? It's the only one in the list that's worked on good dithered volume control isn't it?
If so, sounds like nothing is wrong.
-
Correct. Normal operation. The only one that is dithered is Play. iTunes throws away bits once you exceed about 20dB of attenuation. Ayrewave has no volume control. Play...been awhile as to levels; but, that seems right too - from memory (mine, not the computer's). :lol:
-
OK thanks - I was worried I messed something up!
Jeff
-
Larry, Bill, et al:
Well all righty... I tried Audirvana (the latest release which is about 4 hours old at this point) on my Mach2 Music server and like it a lot. It works with the Apple infrared remote and has a real simple interface that allows drag and drop from Finder (I haven't tried it with iTunes yet), it has volume working on the remote (very cool), and it sounds very good. So, thank you Larry for the heads up. It seems that new players for OS X are popping up like mushrooms.
Newzooreview and jkelly,
AyreWave does indeed have a volume control... it is in the "Controls" drop down menu. It doesn't work with the Apple remote (it only works with the mouse or keyboard shortcuts) and that is something that probably should be fixed, but I understand why it doesn't work. As for the sound quality, it has been getting better, but about all you can say for it is that it beats Play and iTunes and a few other players out there right now. If you use it with iTunes, it allows you to select songs individually or in bunches and then click the icon at the top right of the playlist screen and they will pop into the AyreWave playlist. Don't bother with trying to import you entire library into the playlist, that is not what it is for. If you use iTunes for your library and highlight the songs, then you can insert them into the playlist with the icon or the File Menu. Then you can use the Apple remote to change tracks or stop and start the playback. Also, AyreWave has something called the Inspector. Click on it and it will show you the metadata and artwork, but only if iTunes is not open on the screen.
I started hearing about Amarra last year when a friend started talking about it. He told me that he was going to get Amarra and what the price was. I thought he was crazy... to spend $695 for a music player, especially when iTunes was free. Now I have been using Amarra for about three weeks, maybe a month. Once I got used to it, and that isn't hard, I don't want to use anything else. It is fun to do the comparisons, but IMHO the hot setup is Amarra running on a Mach2 Music mini and using the iPad to control it via Apple Remote. If you want the best in the west, that's it, look no further.
Like my friend Dave Elledge says, "looking back at a month ago is like peering back into the Dark Ages".
Has anybody heard about a new Music Server from Apple based on the Mac mini platform?
Best regards,
Kevin Burke
audio path
-
AyreWave does indeed have a volume control... it is in the "Controls" drop down menu. It doesn't work with the Apple remote (it only works with the mouse or keyboard shortcuts) and that is something that probably should be fixed, but I understand why it doesn't work.
I will try again (new to Mac) but it didn't seem to lower levels going to the outboard DAC.
Maybe I am doing something wrong.
Jeff
-
I've also been experimenting running my Tranquility direct to the power amp lately, and while the amp has a low 10kOhm input impedance which is causing bass to sound very lean (rolling off below 150 hz according to Eric's calculations but which the Tranq. can be modded to fix with my amp), the sound is spectacular. If you haven't once tried out this connection you owe yourself the favour. Not all systems I would imagine will sound best this way but with care it can be checked out.
But be forewarned as great care MUST be exercised with even Pure music which I am using. One small mental slip and poof!, there goes your drivers when the the amp gets the full output signal from the digital volume control in Pure Music. DO NOT assume the volume was in the last position if you have had power to your Mini disrupted or even rebooting Pure Music and/or the Mini (which PM recommends to clear RAM for best sound) - volume levels may default to zero dB and hence full output. I've had this happen but normally PM remembers the last volume position after PM reboot or a Mini restart. If the Mini was put only in sleep mode and not shut down between listening sessions and PM was not quit, then I would guess it's even more likely the volume will remain at the last used position.
I have been turning on my power amp last after checking the volume level on my iTouch
AFTER I have started a song playing., but sometimes when plugging/unplugging things and starting playback I have had to desparately reset volume down from max/turn off amp when I suddenly found it defaulted to zero. Yikes. Not the kind of stress I need!. Using a monitor does allow for extra safety in being able to verify volume level before starting playback, but is a hassle for those of us wanting to run Mini headless using Apple Remote.
Even with these issues, I still would want the direct connection to the amp even though in my case I will have to occasionally swap interconnects as my preamp is also needed for a hm theatre bypass and occasional vinyl playback.
-
Don't bother with trying to import you entire library into the playlist, that is not what it is for.
I don't know where you get your information. Stephen Booth has stated on his site forum that "I'm still working on 1.0b! A library, watch folders, smart playlists, etc. will be added over the next few releases."
As for the sound quality, it has been getting better, but about all you can say for it is that it beats Play and iTunes and a few other players out there right now.
I don't understand the negative tone. AyreWave is better than most popular options (including Play, iTunes, VLC, and Audirvana in my direct experience). So why the dismissive "about all you can say"?
I'll be comparing it to Pure Music soon--should be interesting.
Amarra is of course not an option. I don't understand why anyone would support a software vendor who secretly installs a rootkit on your computer without your consent that, by the license of the software, allows them to disable the software remotely and in doing so opens a backdoor for remote access to your system, making it permanently vulnerable to outside attack. The iLok DRM scheme has already been cracked, so they simply punish their legitimate customers in the process.
-
AyreWave does indeed have a volume control... it is in the "Controls" drop down menu.
I just tried to use the volume control and it had no effect. I am using the USB dac output.
Please let me know how to get this working.
Jeff
-
I don't understand the negative tone........
Amarra is of course not an option. I don't understand why anyone would support a software vendor who secretly installs a rootkit on your computer without your consent that, by the license of the software, allows them to disable the software remotely and in doing so opens a backdoor for remote access to your system, making it permanently vulnerable to outside attack. The iLok DRM scheme has already been cracked, so they simply punish their legitimate customers in the process.
:|
-
I've been using Pure Music with my Tranquility Sig; even my high res files play great, with the caveat that at the end of each high res track, PM stops and doesn't go to the next track. Rob has indicated that PM is working on a software update to address this.
I also have Amarra mini (w/ilock), but haven't used it in months. This morning I installed the latest Amarra mini on to my mac mini, installed the ilock--thought I would give it a try with the Tranq Sig (I had not used Amarra mini since getting the Tranq dac).
Redbook tracks play fine on Amarra mini, but if I try to play a high res track (limited to 96k of course), Amarra either won't play or sounds really distorted/slow. Is there a setting I'm forgetting to change somewhere? Amarra mini played my 24/96 tracks fine back when it was feeding my MW Transporter--I know the Tranq Sig dac will play the high res tracks, but I can't get Amarra mini and the Tranq Sig dac to play 24/96 tracks....
Thanks for any tips!
Randy
-
Sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread, but for those of you wishing to use the tranquility with a pc, or any usb dac for that matter, have you tried these windows 7 settings?
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdf (http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdf)
I noticed a substantial difference using foobar, wasapi output and a usb dac. I've never compared to a mac mini, but would be interested in hearing others thoughts that have both a pc and mac mini.
-
Sorry if this has already been discussed in this thread, but for those of you wishing to use the tranquility with a pc, or any usb dac for that matter, have you tried these windows 7 settings?
http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdf (http://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/downloads/Windows_7_Optimization_Guide.pdf)
I noticed a substantial difference using foobar, wasapi output and a usb dac. I've never compared to a mac mini, but would be interested in hearing others thoughts that have both a pc and mac mini.
I have done comparisons using Windows 7 and Mac OS X on the 2010 Mac Mini. I thought Foobar with Kernel Streaming sounded about as good as I could get on the PC, but no matter what I used and optimized, I thought the Mac OS always had the upper-hand. I did try every PC optimization that I could find, and removed all startup processes as possible and stripped it down best that I could. It might be the software players for the Mac, but I think it is the combo of the actual OS itself as well as the software players that put it ahead of the PC (drivers play a big part as well). Windows seems a lot more bloated than the Mac OS and I think it's harder to optimize everything to match the Mac.
I also had a USB cable burning in at the time, so swapping between the two could have had some affect on my listening comparisons, but I've done it a few times already and preferred the Mac. I've been using Pure Music and AyreWave. Both sound fantastic and I've not yet determined which is best for me. Still burning in some RCAs and my Tranquility SE. :)
-
I've also been experimenting running my Tranquility direct to the power amp lately, and while the amp has a low 10kOhm input impedance which is causing bass to sound very lean (rolling off below 150 hz according to Eric's calculations but which the Tranq. can be modded to fix with my amp), the sound is spectacular. If you haven't once tried out this connection you owe yourself the favour. Not all systems I would imagine will sound best this way but with care it can be checked out.
Yes I suspect the sound would indeed be spectacular. A number of acquaintances of mine say the best system they have ever heard is a DAC connected directly a low powered amp - no volume control etc etc. If anyone wants to try it I suggest something like a SET directly fed to some medium sensitivity speakers say 90db or so. That way you will not be reducing the volume and bit dropping using something like Pure Music that can boost and reduce. This looks a good amp to try with it:
http://www.miniwatt.com.hk/amplifiers/miniwatt-n3.html
Get a technician to remove the volume pot and replace it with some fixed resistors so you get the volume you want with pure music at 0db.
Scratching my head a bit about that roll off below 150hz - I thought the output impedance of the Tranquility was 50 ohms which should not impose a problem for 10K input impedance. My amp is not a lot better at 50K and I can't say I have really noticed any problems.
Thanks
Bill
-
Speaking of running direct to amplifier, I'm doing the next closest thing.
http://www.lightspeedattenuator.com
Tranquility SE into the Lightspeed Attentuator and then into the Music Reference RM-10 which has 100Kohm input impedance.
It's really quite, quite good. My system has never been better.
Edit: Fixed URL (thanks srb!).
-
Wilsynet, the lightspeed looks interesting, what retail price does it go for?
thx, david
-
I understood from Eric that input impedances of 50K to 100K were o.k.
-
Last price from George about a month ago was US$450 including shipping. There is a pretty positive, sometimes effusive thread on Audiogon about it:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1276356977&&&/Lightspeed-Attenuator-Best-Preamp-Ever-&&st0
Only drawback is at lowest volume, it never goes quite to zero. It isn't a show stopper, but it can be inconvenient if you have pretty efficient speakers. For the money and given the sound quality, I'll take the minor annoyance.
-
ldr's are killer, but why not go for remote control?
http://diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=113
doug s.
Last price from George about a month ago was US$450 including shipping. There is a pretty positive, sometimes effusive thread on Audiogon about it:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1276356977&&&/Lightspeed-Attenuator-Best-Preamp-Ever-&&st0
Only drawback is at lowest volume, it never goes quite to zero. It isn't a show stopper, but it can be inconvenient if you have pretty efficient speakers. For the money and given the sound quality, I'll take the minor annoyance.
-
I actually have and use an Apple remote, so I would have had two devices using the same set of remote codes. Second, didn't see anyone compare the Eva to George's work, and I decided to go for the better known quantity.
I think we're getting way off topic. I will refrain from commenting on the LDR any further.
-
I tried running the output of the DAC straight to my amps and using the volume control on the computer. I can even control the volume with my iTouch.
The problem for me was that the sound stage depth and imaging feel apart when I did that.
Using either my Dodd Audio battery powered tube amp or the Dodd Audio tube buffer was a big improvement. Plus of coarse I have a dedicated remote and three inputs and two outputs.
I highly recommend at least trying the buffer. Gary is selling it as a kit now for practically nothing.
-
thx for the info guys!
-
I've had my new Sig Tranquility burning in for a week straight from before the holiday week until yesterday evening. I've kept the original Tranquility so I could compare the units once the Sig was burned in. The original Tranquility was powered, but idle for the entire time as well. I'm assuming the fact it was idle didn't negatively impact its performance. The comparison was an 8 month old Tranquility vs. a new Sig Tranquility with 169 hours on it. Net result of my comparisons last night....the original Tranquility goes back to dB Audio this week.
I found the bass the biggest area of improvement for my system. The signature was able to bring real texture to the bass notes. At times, it seems like there is less weight on the bass, but that's just because the bass isn't as wooly and bloated. Funny, as I never would have described the original's bass as wooly, but now that I've heard the Sig, it's definitely not as refined, and led to some general room resonances and blurring that's now way way better with the Sig.
Instrument separation and air is also greatly improved. I wouldn't say the resolution is all that much more, but it's just that last 5-10% of performance that allows everything to open up and breath. I also found the PRAT to be improved, as the microdynamics of voice and instrument were more refined and allowed those synergies to play out. I found some vocal subtleties on some tracks I never would have suspected be there, as I thought they were poorer recording quality.
I would not call the sound harsh or brittle in any way, as so often that level of detail in systems reduces harmonic richness. It's a very listenable approach to reproduction, and I'm very satisfied.
However, I do wonder if I will need to redirect some system approach to compensate. The separation of instruments is now so good, that I sometimes lose the view of the forest for the trees. That is to say that it's easy to get stuck listening to one or a few of the instruments and lose the image of the work as a whole. It's a testament to the resolving power of the source, but I may need to compensate in terms of system synergy a bit. Is there too much of a good thing? In this case, I surely hope not, as I really appreciate what the Sig has done.
I just went from an upgraded Miniwatt to an Ampino on the amp side, but maybe I need to move back in the tube direction. There's always a next step, right?!!!
-
I don't think the reviewer really gets the approach used by DBlabs. Yes, the Tranquility DAC's work well with any source but there is a synergy with the Mac Mini that the author hasen't explored. He seems to be somewhat dismissive of this synergy based on experience with another DAC using the mini as a transport.
Brian
-
Brian,
I agree completely. I simply don't believe he is getting anywhere near the full picture of this dac, and I'd add that I don't think you're going to hear a lot of the amazing harmonic development of a note that this dac can produce, with a single driver speaker, nor the bass for that matter. And that's coming from a guy who has owned many SD speakers over the years. There are only a few that I've heard that might be able to show you all that the dac is capable ofm, but they are not in his collection. That said, if you're hooked on the SD sound as it is, that's your point of reference and that's all well and fine.
I do agree completely with his assessment of the armchair audiophile though :-).
-- Jim
-
Jim
At this time I am not a SD speaker user but I have had a set of Fostex 206's in my system in the past. They do some things very well. Unfortunately, I don't have them now to try.
The NOS DAC DIY thing seems to be at the root of all the obsession of labelling a certain DAC with a certain sound. It is much easier to slap together a NOS DAC and have it sound decent then to do that with the ESS Sabre chip. This seems to make everybody who builds a NOS DAC kit an expert on the sound of different chips and makes them want to know what chips are used in every DAC they encounter. There are also many user reviews that muddy the waters even more when looking for a DAC.
The Tranquility DAC's are proof that you can't judge a DAC by the converter chip alone. DBlabs has developed a product that needs to be judged solely on it's sound without prejudice about the converter chip used. I decided to do just that when I ordered the DAC and I had no problem justifying the purchase based on the sheer enjoyment that this DAC brings to my listening experience. I did this even though I had always been a person who wanted to know the technical details of the products I use. My experience has been that focusing solely on the tech stuff does not bring me the emotionally involving sound that I crave as a music lover.
The sound I am getting with the Tranquility in my system gets me closer to the artists musical message. How it does that is a bit of a mystery. I am content to enjoy the results and not focus on the means by which they are achieved. I encourage others to consider this approach when upgrading.
Brian
-
Hi Guys
A few points here. Although a number of speakers John Darko (the Reviewer) used were SD - a number were not. Although not mentioned in the review I know John has heard the DAC through a reference system flat to 25hz using a Mac Mini and is aware how it sounds that way. He probably did not mention it because that listening session was not part of his formal review.
I think the pertinent point is his conclusion:
'A lack of S/PDIF inputs is the ONLY reason it doesn't score the 5 stars that its sound quality commands.'
You may think he was a bit hard removing a point for that in his final rating. Personally though I have no problem with it because John reviews stuff as a piece of consumer equipment, and that includes ergonomics etc etc, not just sound quality. If you have a look at other reviews you will see he has done the same for other products for a similar reason - eg have a look at the NAKSA review where he rated that as a 5 star sound but removed a point because some assembly is required.
Having had this DAC in my system for quite a while I concur with everything John said regarding sound including, on that basis, it is a 5 star DAC.
I hope people take the positives away from this review. A criticism that has (unjustifiably IMHO) been leveled at the Tranquility is that an independent professional review has not been forthcoming. Well now it has - and it confirmed everything people have written about this DAC gaining 5 stars on a sound quality basis. Very few products get an accolade like that from such reviewers - they are very wary of handing these out fearing it will be devalued. The WFS for example only got 4 stars. The fact it got 5 stars even without a Mac Mini is a real feather in its cap IMHO.
BTW I also know the only reason a Mac Mini was not used is John did not have easy access to one. I was going to send him one but for various reasons there is no need to go into here (and indeed I wont because it involves stuff in Johns personal life) it was decided not to do that.
Thanks
Bill
-
I don't think the reviewer really gets the approach used by DBlabs. Yes, the Tranquility DAC's work well with any source but there is a synergy with the Mac Mini that the author hasen't explored. He seems to be somewhat dismissive of this synergy based on experience with another DAC using the mini as a transport.
John is not dismissive of it - he simply did not have access to a mac-mini to do it. He also heard the Tranquility fed from a Mac Mini so knows what it sounds like.
Thanks
Bill
-
Bill
If he had heard the mini as a source I find it odd that he didn't mention it at all. At the same time he mentions another mini based system that sounded inferior to a conventional transport. Perhaps it is a matter of style but I find the review a bit disjointed. Overall however, it is positive and confirms some of the findings of users. Too bad he couldn't compare an optimized mini based system to a squeezebox or another source of his choice. He finds the bass to be a bit weak and this could be an impedance matching issue with the Tranquility and the input of his amps.
Brian
-
Bhobba,
I read a review where somebody who owned both tranquility dacs noted that the base dac had more bass but the S.E. had a more textured bass. Was this your experience?
One more question :) Everyone says how the Mac Mini is a superior front end/music server and although many people have explained why they thought it was better technically (power supply, OS etc.) I was hoping you could elaborate on the actual sonic differences between other computers and the Mac Mini?
P.S. John Darko did say in an E-mail and his review that lack of inputs was the only reason for the 4 stars and it was a 5 star sound quality DAC, I am only interested in computer audio so this was a great review for me :thumb:
Thanks
-
If he had heard the mini as a source I find it odd that he didn't mention it at all. At the same time he mentions another mini based system that sounded inferior to a conventional transport. Perhaps it is a matter of style but I find the review a bit disjointed. Overall however, it is positive and confirms some of the findings of users. Too bad he couldn't compare an optimized mini based system to a squeezebox or another source of his choice. He finds the bass to be a bit weak and this could be an impedance matching issue with the Tranquility and the input of his amps.
Hi Brian
I know where you are coming from. The reason I suspect he didn't mention hearing it with a mini is that session was not part of his formal review - it was simply with a few friends including me when he picked up the DAC for review. What you suggest about the bass is possible. However I think the bass comment was compared to the WFS. I have had both DAC's in my system for a while and that is what I found - the Tranquility bass (especially the SE) was not as powerful as the WFS, but to my ears had better balance and was more realistic.
Thanks
Bill
-
I read a review where somebody who owned both tranquility dacs noted that the base dac had more bass but the S.E. had a more textured bass. Was this your experience? One more question :) Everyone says how the Mac Mini is a superior front end/music server and although many people have explained why they thought it was better technically (power supply, OS etc.) I was hoping you could elaborate on the actual sonic differences between other computers and the Mac Mini? P.S. John Darko did say in an E-mail and his review that lack of inputs was the only reason for the 4 stars and it was a 5 star sound quality DAC, I am only interested in computer audio so this was a great review for me :thumb:
I found the the bass of the SE to be both stronger and more detailed. It was not as strong as the WFS, but I believe the bass in that is bit overblown. I would describe it as more realistc. The Mac-mini does not change the overall character of the DAC but it is blacker, has more detail and has better sounstaging.
And yes - rest assured this is a 5 star DAC sonically. It is one of the three best DAC's I have ever heard and the other two are bit to quite a bit more expensive. I have heard a few DAC's in my time but John has heard even more. He has purchseed many DAC's over a long period of time to check them out. Rest assured if he says this is a 5 star dac sonically then it is.
Oh and one thing I haven't mentioned yet is John will soon be getting an Auraliti for review:
http://www.auraliti.com/
For that I may send my Mac-Mini down for comparison - and one of the DAC's being used will probably be the Tranquility. However for future comparisons I will be using the Auraliti because it makes it easy to compare SPDIF to USB.
Thanks
Bill
-
I'm not dismissive of the MacMini synergy at all. Eric explained in several emails that a 25% improvement could be had from using one as a transport. I simply didn't have time to get hold of a MacMini and then liaise with Eric re. the computer's optimisation and then take the review further still.
It's a wonderful-sounding DAC and it's quite likely I shall write a follow-up piece (WITH MacMini) around Christmas time.
-
I'm not dismissive of the MacMini synergy at all. Eric explained in several emails that a 25% improvement could be had from using one as a transport. I simply didn't have time to get hold of a MacMini and then liaise with Eric re. the computer's optimisation and then take the review further still.
It's a wonderful-sounding DAC and it's quite likely I shall write a follow-up piece (WITH MacMini) around Christmas time.
Hi Johnny,
It would be great to see a review with the tranquility with the macmini and even better if you could add a Auraliti to the mix for a transport comparison 8) Thanks for posting here :thumb:
-
...the thing is, my existing review could've gone in one of two directions. I could've maximised the MacMini setup, a setup with which I had no previous experience (or reference points) OR I could've compared the Tranquility SE to other DACs by using my existing equipment with which I am very familiar. I chose the latter path.
As with every review, there will always be readers that won't like the ancillary equipment, who don't feel that it is sufficiently revealing or that it properly synergises with the item being reviewed. Alas, I don't have the time or budget to mitigate for more equipment pairings - I wish this were not the case, but time is time and money is money.
I concede that my review doesn't cover *all* bases, but it does provide some solid comparative information. Not everyone will find this useful, but it does give some indication of where the Tranquility SE sonically sits when used with more humdrum transports. I know that both Eric Hider and others on this forum will state that one simply must use this DAC in tandem with a MacMini - all well and good, but this drives a superb-sounding (and I do mean SUPERB) DAC further into down the rabbit hole marked "niche". If one were to factor in the cost of the MacMini and the db Labs USB cable, the total cost of ownership is around US$3k.
I shall do my best to write a speedy follow-up, but I'm having an eye operation next week so it won't be until I've recuperated fully.
A good friend has a system based around some ATCs and he has a MacMini. I might take the Tranquility SE over to his place to see what it sounds like...
However, I feel that I have already effused positively about the Tranquility SE's sonic prowess and I'm not sure people want to read gushing prose in isolation about how "awesome" it sounds with a MacMini. What would be the point without other reference DACs being present (my friend is a good one, but I don't think he would tolerate me switching DACs for hours on end). Besides, I don't "know" his system as I know my own.
I have little doubt that the Tranquility SE WILL sound better with a MacMini as transport - but do people simply want confirmation of this? Or do they want sonic specifics? And compared to what benchmark? My MacBook Pro might be suitable?
-
When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...
Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...
Cheers
-
When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...
It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me. Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one. The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably. John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later. This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do. If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.
Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini. No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best. All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret. What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's. I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti. I believe that will have real value.
Thanks
Bill
-
It would be great to see a review with the tranquility with the macmini and even better if you could add a Auraliti to the mix for a transport comparison 8) Thanks for posting here :thumb:
I will work with John to see if that can come about. While I can't promise anything it is a distinct possibility. But as John has explained he needs cataract surgery in a week and time to recover. A number of reviews will have built up and they will need to be done which means it will have to take a back seat.
Thanks
Bill
-
It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me. Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one. The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably. John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later. This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do. If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.
Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini. No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best. All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret. What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's. I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti. I believe that will have real value.
Thanks
Bill
Bill,
How would the Auraliti feed a Tranquility DAC? The device is advertised as AES or S/PDIF output only, as I understand it, through the ESI Juli@ card, though I see no reason why they couldn't send USB out as well. Lynx was going to be an upgrade option but Linux support was not so good.
While I understand the logistics issue, it sure would also be nice to review a fully optimized Mach2Mini with the SE DAC and USB cable, which is apparently the best possible combo. I think what many are finding is that you really need to consider the whole computer/playback system together to get the best measure of sound quality. Obviously, setup and synergy matter a lot in this realm.
Tom
-
More power to you Bill ...
My comment was to highlight the need for doing it right ... then no explanation would be needed.
Cheers
It was not sent by Eric it was sent but me. Eric wanted it to be with a mini and I was going to supply one. The problem though, as John has pointed out, he has to go in for cataract surgery in a week which would have delayed the review considerably. John felt, for the reasons he detailed, he would rather do it without the mac-mini than wait. A review with a mini has a good chance of occurring later. This review was done at the private expense of both me and John purely because we thought it was an interesting thing to do. If anyone else wants to set up a review site like John has done and find someone who, like me, at their own expense, will purchase both a Tranquility and a mac-mini feel free.
Besides I don't really know what the problem is - this is a 5 star dac even without the mini. No excuses etc required even without the mini - this is a serious DAC up their with the best. All it will confirm is it gets better with a mini which is not exactly a secret. What I think could be of value is the comparison that hopefully can be organised later - the comparison of the Mac Mini and an Auraliti feeding not only the Tranquility but other DAC's. I know some who have done this and preferred the Auraliti. I believe that will have real value.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks all for the explanations, and I do understand why things sometimes have to be the way they are, but for me, the one thing that really stood out as a point of confusion was why it didn't originally get a 5 star rating. Explanation: one of the big factors in the sound of this dac is precisely what it lost the half point for -- namely the absence of a spdif connection, and that didn't seem to be fully explained in the review.
I know reviewing is a tough job and there is always somebody who will not be happy with the outcome, but this is one of the key points that Eric makes, and one of the things that very few others seem to realize, that the more interfaces you have, whether they are mechanically or electronically switched, you're doing harm to all the signals.
Anyway, just wanted to explain myself.
BTW, Brian, my speakers (Tonian Labs TL-D1 Mk. IIs) use a 8 inch fostex driver with a heavily damped whizzer and modified ribbon tweet.
Thanks again for the explanations,
Jim
i
-
One of the big factors in the sound of this dac is precisely what it lost the half point for -- namely the absence of a spdif connection, and that didn't seem to be fully explained in the review.
It was rated as a 4-star product because:
a) being USB only - it errs towards a niche.
b) That a MacMini is needed to get the best from this DAC narrows said niche
I hope this clears up any confusion/uncertainty re. my review.
As for the Auraliti - yes, it's S/PDIF out on the Julia card so a like-for-like comparison with the MacMini as a transport (when feeding the Tranquility SE) won't be possible.
-
When sending Tranquility DAC for review - it should be sent with a mac-mini if mac-mini is a must ... otherwise - we end up with under-optimized setup followed up with excuses and reasons ...
Eric, I hope you make a note of that ... it is another $1000 ...
Cheers
I think it should also be sold as such. Or, at the very least, explained as such on the db Audio Labs website...
-
Just to add my 2 cents... From my experience, the Mac Mini thing isn't exclusive to the Tranquility. I found the Mac Mini to be the best transport for computer audio in general. I have the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the optimized Mac Mini sounded the best on that as well. I tried optimizing Windows 7 on a PC, Windows 7 on the Mac Mini, and Mac OS X on the Mac Mini, and the Mac OS X / Mac Mini combo offered the best sound quality, from my listening - for both the DAC-2 and Tranquility SE.
I don't think the solid construction, isolated components and efficiency of the Mac Mini only benefits the Tranquility alone, it benefits any DAC that uses it. The effects may be greater on the Tranquility, but the Tranquility in general offers a higher quality experience so you'll notice the quality in source gear even more.
-
Just to add my 2 cents... From my experience, the Mac Mini thing isn't exclusive to the Tranquility. I found the Mac Mini to be the best transport for computer audio in general. I have the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the optimized Mac Mini sounded the best on that as well. I tried optimizing Windows 7 on a PC, Windows 7 on the Mac Mini, and Mac OS X on the Mac Mini, and the Mac OS X / Mac Mini combo offered the best sound quality, from my listening - for both the DAC-2 and Tranquility SE.
I don't think the solid construction, isolated components and efficiency of the Mac Mini only benefits the Tranquility alone, it benefits any DAC that uses it. The effects may be greater on the Tranquility, but the Tranquility in general offers a higher quality experience so you'll notice the quality in source gear even more.
I don't doubt it. And I see that MacMini as giving additional performance over and above the transports that were used in my review. I think it was pretty clear from my findings that I described the Tranquility SE as having a 5-star sound and that even more sonic performance could be had by adding a MacMini as transport. What more do people want? :roll:
I stand by my review "findings" and I believe that both my Squeezebox Touch (USB output) and my MacBook Pro are perfectly valid transports with which to test any DAC - the Tranquility SE should be no exception. I spent a considerable number of hours listening and changing system components to check and re-check conclusions.
However, my "complaint" is that db Audio Labs themselves and others suggest that the starting transport with the Tranquility SE should be a MacMini. This may well be the case, but it doesn't make my findings with lesser transports any less valid.
Eric told me via email that a) he pretty much insists that buyers of the Tranquility use a MacMini and b) he was "VERY concerned" that I was not using one in my review. (As bhobba has explained, it was my intention to borrow his MacMini - but the review process was cut short due to my needing urgent eye surgery; as well as a couple of other issues that I don't wish to go into here).
If these two points don't illustrate that a MacMini is part of the db Audio Labs ethos, I don't know what does. And that's FINE - really it is - but it needs to be declared upfront and on the db Audio Labs website so that potential customers are aware that this particular DAC requires the db Audio Labs USB cable and a MacMini as transport.
-
I don't doubt it. And I see that MacMini as giving additional performance over and above the transports that were used in my review. I think it was pretty clear from my findings that I described the Tranquility SE as having a 5-star sound and that even more sonic performance could be had by adding a MacMini as transport. What more do people want? :roll:
I stand by my review "findings" and I believe that both my Squeezebox Touch (USB output) and my MacBook Pro are perfectly valid transports with which to test any DAC - the Tranquility SE should be no exception. I spent a considerable number of hours listening and changing system components to check and re-check conclusions.
However, my "complaint" is that db Audio Labs themselves and others suggest that the starting transport with the Tranquility SE should be a MacMini and that not to use one doesn't reveal the true potential of the DAC. This may well be the case, but it doesn't make my findings with lesser transports any less valid.
Eric told me via email that a) he pretty much insists that buyers of the Tranquility use a MacMini and b) he was "VERY concerned" that I was not using one in my review.
If these two points don't illustrate that a MacMini is part of the db Audio Labs ethos, I don't know what does. And that's FINE - really it is - but it needs to be declared upfront and on the db Audio Labs website so that potential customers are aware that this particular DAC requires the db Audio Labs USB cable and a MacMini as transport.
I totally agree, I wasn't really taking any punches at your review - I was just stating that the Mac Mini isn't just a "magic" best source for JUST the Tranquility. I thought your review was fair and I don't see anything wrong with reviewing it without a Mac Mini - especially since you thought it sounded great not using one.
The Mac Mini thing should really be listed on the dB Audio Labs Web site, but most sales go directly through Eric, and Eric has great customer support and he'll usually talk about it over the phone and go over options and what system you have. It's just one of those things that greatly impacts the sound of any system, and you can take it as far as you want. Other computer sources sound good to great, and there's always stuff you can do to improve the sound. There probably should be a "Setup" section on the Web site that lists out a recommended configuration and some background on how computer audio relates to the sound quality of his product. But as I see with most audio company Web sites, the Web site is usually the last thing to get updated.
The same goes for the dB Audio Labs USB cable. ANY quality USB cable will greatly improve the sound in a USB DAC. I was using their USB Cable on my Wyred4Sound DAC-2 before I even bought the Tranquility. I thought computer audio through USB was complete crap until I tried a good quality USB cable, such as the dB Audio Labs Essential cable. All these things add up to the ultimate experience, and Eric does insist on them because they really do matter and he wants to offer the best sound quality possible to his customers.
I have no issues with your review of the DAC and people will always raise a fuss over a published review, no matter what. Keep doing what you do. :)
-
I don't see why people are taking such issue with the review, either. For a long while I was using a linux-based Asus EEE netbook with the original Tranquility to great effect. It may be true that the Mac Mini was a step up in improvement, but I don't know why the Mac Mini should be REQUIRED. It's fine to recommend, but sheesh, can't people make up their own minds a bit about their source selection. I like that the review demonstrates that the Signature Tranquility has exceptional performance even without the Mac Mini. You might get a different impression that a Mac Mini is truly necessary from some of the comments on this thread and also by dB Audio, and I think that would be a shame. That said, I also recommend a Mini for ergonomics and ease of use as much as sound quality.
What I'm more interested in is the comparison to the Red Wine unit. Does anyone else have any comparative impressions to offer between the Red Wine approach and either of the Tranquilities?
~Ben
-
I don't see why people are taking such issue with the review, either. For a long while I was using a linux-based Asus EEE netbook with the original Tranquility to great effect. It may be true that the Mac Mini was a step up in improvement, but I don't know why the Mac Mini should be REQUIRED. It's fine to recommend, but sheesh, can't people make up their own minds a bit about their source selection. I like that the review demonstrates that the Signature Tranquility has exceptional performance even without the Mac Mini. You might get a different impression that a Mac Mini is truly necessary from some of the comments on this thread and also by dB Audio, and I think that would be a shame. That said, I also recommend a Mini for ergonomics and ease of use as much as sound quality.
What I'm more interested in is the comparison to the Red Wine unit. Does anyone else have any comparative impressions to offer between the Red Wine approach and either of the Tranquilities?
~Ben
Hey Ben
When I follow-up on the Tranquility SE with a MacMini, I shall use the Red Wine DAC as my comparison DAC.
-
How would the Auraliti feed a Tranquility DAC? The device is advertised as AES or S/PDIF output only, as I understand it, through the ESI Juli@ card, though I see no reason why they couldn't send USB out as well. Lynx was going to be an upgrade option but Linux support was not so good. While I understand the logistics issue, it sure would also be nice to review a fully optimized Mach2Mini with the SE DAC and USB cable, which is apparently the best possible combo. I think what many are finding is that you really need to consider the whole computer/playback system together to get the best measure of sound quality. Obviously, setup and synergy matter a lot in this realm.
Although the Aurality site does not advertise it I know someone who wrote to them and confirmed it will output USB as well. Evidently there are a number of things it will do that is not advertised such as being able to handle apple lossless as well. But to be 100% sure I will write the manufacturer myself now I have actually purchased one.
Yes I understand wanting to check it out with a fully optimized Mach2Mini. Trouble is John and I are doing this at our expense and money really is at a premium.
Thanks
Bill
-
As for the Auraliti - yes, it's S/PDIF out on the Julia card so a like-for-like comparison with the MacMini as a transport (when feeding the Tranquility SE) won't be possible.
Hi John
Evidently it can do both USB and SPDIF - a guy has written to them conforming it. Now I have got one (I have just got the confirmation of it being shipped) I will write to the manufacturer just to double check what other have said - namely it can do USB out and Apple lossless.
Thanks
Bill
-
Just to add my 2 cents... From my experience, the Mac Mini thing isn't exclusive to the Tranquility. I found the Mac Mini to be the best transport for computer audio in general. I have the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and the optimized Mac Mini sounded the best on that as well. I tried optimizing Windows 7 on a PC, Windows 7 on the Mac Mini, and Mac OS X on the Mac Mini, and the Mac OS X / Mac Mini combo offered the best sound quality, from my listening - for both the DAC-2 and Tranquility SE. I don't think the solid construction, isolated components and efficiency of the Mac Mini only benefits the Tranquility alone, it benefits any DAC that uses it. The effects may be greater on the Tranquility, but the Tranquility in general offers a higher quality experience so you'll notice the quality in source gear even more.
That is true from my experience, and Eric has confirmed it as well.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Folks
I don't think that Eric has ever said that the Mini is REQUIRED. My feeling is that Eric wants his customers to have the best quality computer audio possible. They have done a lot of research and listening and recommend what they think is the best solution.
If a PC based solution becomes available that can match or surpass the Mini then my guess is that they will recommend that solution as well.
I feel that many people are critical of John's review because they really want to know more about the differences between an optimized mini and other transports such as a typical PC, Laptop or squeezebox. There seems to be a good consensus about the SQ of the Tranquility DAC's in general but many people want to know what the addition of an optimized mini would add to the equation and if it is worth the cost of admission. In some cases PC devotees just don't want to go MAC and are looking for a PC solution. They want to know what they are giving up in SQ, if anything, by making that decision.
In my case I had purchased a mini before I made the decision on which DAC to buy. However Apple released the new 2010 version about a week later. So the lesson is that there will always be new and hopefully better solutions coming from both Apple and the PC industry.
Brian
-
Hi John
Evidently it can do both USB and SPDIF - a guy has written to them conforming it. Now I have got one (I have just got the confirmation of it being shipped) I will write to the manufacturer just to double check what other have said - namely it can do USB out and Apple lossless.
Thanks
Bill
Jack just sent me a note last night that said "no" to USB output on the LK100, however they do have another USB output specific player coming. They also customize their own version of MPD for Voyage so it's not Voyage MPD.
-
I don't think that Eric has ever said that the Mini is REQUIRED.
Eric is very open and enthusiastic about the MacMini as transport.
He said in an email to me, "You should realize that I darn near demand that my customers don't use computers that fall way short of delivering details. The DAC purchase would just be a waste of money otherwise. And, used Mac Minis only cost a little over $300 here in the states."
...and yet I heard wonderful things from my MacBook and Squeezebox and don't myself consider the DAC purchase to "be a waste of money" with these transports at all.
Like I have said in previous posts, a follow-up with a MacMini will eventually be forthcoming.
-
Eric is very open and enthusiastic about the MacMini as transport.
He said in an email to me, "You should realize that I darn near demand that my customers don't use computers that fall way short of delivering details. The DAC purchase would just be a waste of money otherwise. And, used Mac Minis only cost a little over $300 here in the states."
...and yet I heard wonderful things from my MacBook and Squeezebox and don't myself consider the DAC purchase to "be a waste of money" with these transports at all.
Like I have said in previous posts, a follow-up with a MacMini will eventually be forthcoming.
Thanks darn good advice to know there for anyone owning a PC. :thumb: I won't be wasting my money on a Tranquility Dac then. Thanks for the heads-up! :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Jack just sent me a note last night that said "no" to USB output on the LK100, however they do have another USB output specific player coming. They also customize their own version of MPD for Voyage so it's not Voyage MPD.
Interesting. I sent a note to confirm it but he has't got back to me yet. Another guy I know claims he said it was supported:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30306-Auraliti-MPD-Transport/page2
'Ok. Response back from Auraliti. I2S is possible, but would apparently require a driver stage to get it up to a usable level, so it's not something they've decided to offer. So DIY only. USB audio is supported. Apple Lossless (not AAC) is supported.'
And the supposed direct copy of the reply:
Hi Dave, We support USB audio class 1 off the motherboard USB connection. So 24/96 is okay. Better USB is coming soon. Remembered you stated the DAC also has SPDIF input. We think our present SPDIF solution tends to sound better with most DACS we have tried that offer both SPDIF and USB inputs. I would suggest trying both and deciding for yourself. On the other hand if your DAC receives and processes 24/176.4 and 192 KHz files then I think you owe it to yourself to get a few of these albums in super high resolution and have a listen through the SPDIF input. Our experience and that of our customer's would indicate you will not be disappointed.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks darn good advice to know there for anyone owning a PC. :thumb: I won't be wasting my money on a Tranquility Dac then. Thanks for the heads-up! :thumb:
I have heard the Tranquility using a simple Windows notebook and using its internal drive (not an external USB Drive) - it sounded pretty darn good - still one of the three best DAC's I have ever heard. Using an external USB for some reason did suck a lot of life out of the music so I would store it on its internal hard drive. I can understand Eric's desire to want his DAC fed optimally but I wouldn't let that stand in the way of getting one if you don't want to invest in a mini.
Thanks
Bill
-
Robin,
You still have that Havana? I had one for a good long time and used with the asus eee box that I was using o feed the original Tranquility, and I didn't even get anywhere near maximizing it for music playback, except for a few simple tweaks, turning off uneeded interfaces, using foobar with kernel streaming and a good asio driver, and even a sub-optimal setup with an external usb drive for music storage, and the Tranquility easily trounced the Havana. Soundstage, detail, upper and lower extension, and that analog smoothness like no other dac I've heard can deliver, plus more tone and detail across the board. Now, I'm talking about the original Tranquility here.
Many of my friends heard this and were shocked at how good it was and how real it sounded. Next I got the Mach2 mini, and things got even better, and now with the
SE, I feel it can compete with the best of the best, price not withstanding. The SE was also quite nice with the less than optimum asus box -- nicer than the original by a very audible margin.
Bottom line: the dac is fantastic (both models) and as you upgrade the transport you just take things further and further up the ladder into rarified territory.
If you don't et this from this dac, regardless of computer used, look elsewhere in your system for something else that's holding it back.
-- Jim
-
I ain't listenin' to you Jim, nor am I listenin' to Bill, Eric says a MacMini is required and I'll never fit the bill there. I'm PC forever! So I guess my poor soundin' Havana will have to do for my inferior sounding' system. :D
Ya'all will just have to keep hyping the Tranquility w/o me. :wave:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Interesting. I sent a note to confirm it but he has't got back to me yet. Another guy I know claims he said it was supported:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30306-Auraliti-MPD-Transport/page2
'Ok. Response back from Auraliti. I2S is possible, but would apparently require a driver stage to get it up to a usable level, so it's not something they've decided to offer. So DIY only. USB audio is supported. Apple Lossless (not AAC) is supported.'
And the supposed direct copy of the reply:
Hi Dave, We support USB audio class 1 off the motherboard USB connection. So 24/96 is okay. Better USB is coming soon. Remembered you stated the DAC also has SPDIF input. We think our present SPDIF solution tends to sound better with most DACS we have tried that offer both SPDIF and USB inputs. I would suggest trying both and deciding for yourself. On the other hand if your DAC receives and processes 24/176.4 and 192 KHz files then I think you owe it to yourself to get a few of these albums in super high resolution and have a listen through the SPDIF input. Our experience and that of our customer's would indicate you will not be disappointed.
Thanks
Bill
Bill,
Yes, you are correct and I mis-spoke from reading his email. A little confusing, but he said while they do support USB Class 2.0 audio up through high sample rates now, they still recommend the S/PDIF or AES output at this time. They are coming out with a USB specific model at some point.
Tom
-
Interesting. I sent a note to confirm it but he has't got back to me yet. Another guy I know claims he said it was supported:
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30306-Auraliti-MPD-Transport/page2
'Ok. Response back from Auraliti. I2S is possible, but would apparently require a driver stage to get it up to a usable level, so it's not something they've decided to offer. So DIY only. USB audio is supported. Apple Lossless (not AAC) is supported.'
And the supposed direct copy of the reply:
Hi Dave, We support USB audio class 1 off the motherboard USB connection. So 24/96 is okay. Better USB is coming soon. Remembered you stated the DAC also has SPDIF input. We think our present SPDIF solution tends to sound better with most DACS we have tried that offer both SPDIF and USB inputs. I would suggest trying both and deciding for yourself. On the other hand if your DAC receives and processes 24/176.4 and 192 KHz files then I think you owe it to yourself to get a few of these albums in super high resolution and have a listen through the SPDIF input. Our experience and that of our customer's would indicate you will not be disappointed.
Thanks
Bill
Hey Bill
I had a play with the Auraliti today - what a sweet little device. We had a bit of an impromptu DAC shootout (Tranquility SE included - more on that soon) and all three DACs used were simple plug n play via USB. Didn't even need to reboot the Auraliiti.
JD
-
I had a play with the Auraliti today - what a sweet little device. We had a bit of an impromptu DAC shootout (Tranquility SE included - more on that soon) and all three DACs used were simple plug n play via USB. Didn't even need to reboot the Auraliiti.
Hi John
Great to hear mate. Makes me feel good I got one coming. I think it is the most versatile source for doing DAC comparisons taking sound quality into consideration. The Squeezebox touch probably will do it but I think the Auraliti has better sound quality considering its BNC connector and output transformer.
You got me really keen now with the result of the mini shootout.
Thanks
Bill
-
Robin,
You sure read a whole lot into my post that was not there, nor intended to be. Just trying to give you a data point for comparison, but apparently that doesn't really iterest you. Sorry 'bout that but it did seem that you wanted to know what you'd get from a PC as source, and since I only switched over to a mac about 2 months ago, and have owned many, many usb dacs of various flavors and at various price points, somehow I thought that might be useful to you. Oh well...
BTW, not "hyping" anything here -- I rarely post here anymore and only about things that I feel are sufficiently noteworthy in terms of their ability to bring game-chaning performance to music lovers of average means such as myself. However, this one is also one of those that will appeal to those who can afford anything.
== Jim
-
Johnny,
Thanks for the follow up, Dacs seem to be like loudspeakers in the fact that they are the most "subjective" devices in the audio chain. For example: In bill's (bhobba) review with the wfs dac vs tranquilty vs killer dac among others in the shootout there was not an obvious consenses as to which dac was better, one reviewer picked the WFS Dac. My point is I always take Dac reviews as with speakers reviews as a subjective type of offering, still fun to read though.
Where I live there is not alot (any really) chance to hear any other DACS that is why I appreciate your page as you seem to review alot of the stuff I am reading about. :thumb:
I own the tranquility SE and am very happy with it running a pc laptop using Media Monkey, I have not heard any different transports in my system.
As I stated above speakers and dacs are obviously subjective due to listener preferences, this brings me to the question does the auraliti (or mini mac) always sound better than a mac book pro or pc in every situation within the same system?
Johnny is the auraliti worthy of the price for an upgrade in your opinion?
Thanks
-
I think this is another example of how close the difference is between good digital dacs or players - very small differences - not the huge differences that we are led to believe.
-
I think this is another example of how close the difference is between good digital dacs or players - very small differences - not the huge differences that we are led to believe.
I could not agree more, this is why I would love to see johnny get his hands on something like the Weiss 202 a over $6000 usd commercial dac (seems to be the ultra dac of the hour) against some of the offerings he has reviewed to see if everone on a listening panel would come out with an overwhelming 100% consenses. I'm not so sure.
-
:D we all love shoot-outs at 'de OK Corral' ..... :thumb: :D
-
Johnny is the auraliti worthy of the price for an upgrade in your opinion?
Thanks
Alas, I didn't hear it back-to-back against my MacBook Pro as I was at a mate's house. The functionality, size and simplicity of the Auraliti is a winner in my book. The guy that owns it raves about its sound quality......at $799 maybe it's worth a punt?
-
I was just chatting to Eric today and he has never even heard of the Auraliti. He is very keen to compare the two. I am getting one delivered and will be doing a comparison with an optimized Mac Mini just to see what the go is. John may be able to do a formal review on it as well.
Thanks
Bill
-
I am the owner of the review system that compared inter alia the Audio Gd ref 7 to the Tranquility SE. My impression of the Tranquility in the context of that system is that it is a very good dac particularly with certain types of music but with slightly suspect tone and an over emphasis of certain frequencies.
Last night I listened to "Jazz at the Pawnshop" CD 1& 2. I found the Tranquility SE enchanting. It was and is just beautiful with Jazz. Complex classical and piano less so. I have the Tranquility for another week or so. Bill Hobba kindly bought one and it has been doing the rounds. He is very generous with sharing his love of hi fi.
here is the review thread I started.
http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30542-Dac-Shoot-Out-3 (http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/showthread.php/30542-Dac-Shoot-Out-3)
The comments as to value pertain to the Aussie market. The USA market will be different.
This is an except from Ian (Audiobuggered in that thread) which encapsulates my feelings entirely.
Key differences between the RE7 and Tranquility (which is the bee's knees model so I"m told) lie more in the presentation, more specifically the tonality.
* Both dacs sounded very enjoyable, and I would say definitely ahead of entry and most mid level stuff
* The tranquility is more in your face. More exciting. This was initially very pleasing and beguiling. The Re7 was more subdued and "neutral", calling nothing out or emphasizing anything.
* Deeper into the listening, some of the key things coming out was that the initial excitement and aliveness of the Tranquility felt (to me) a bit designed or tailored. This mind you was fairly subtle but my take is that this would be more obvious in a more resolving and/or exciting system. In a more laid back system lacking in excitement maybe this would be beneficial...(?)
* So far, I'd call it very close but then a couple of things were also cropping up that would put the tranquility behind the re7 in my books
* Tonality of the tranquility is a bit suspect - perhaps due to the slightly "tailored" sound signature. This was not apparent on unfamiliar music, but on the piano it lent a slightly digital sound to it. A bit like listening to a classical performance (no amplification) Vs a jazz piano with amplification + speakers to increase the volume of sound. This is not obvious (the suspect tonality of violins in the jadis/quad combination was blatant in comparison) but then, I'm a bit sensitive to the piano and it does "bug" me.
* The tranquility presents a "fuller" sound but this slight bloom is at the expense of separation - in dense orchestral mix, the sound is very slightly mushed up but only in comparison to the Re7 here (could be the Re7's overkill power supply design). Would surmise that there could be a larger degree of difference in a more resolving set up but this is a bit speculative and needs corroboration.
Put it this way, if I came in without any knowledge of the dacs and someone told me that the tranquility was $1k and the Re7 was $3k, I'd say that the Re7 would be amongst the best in that class and the tranquility was a giant killer that delivered 90% of the performance at one third the price. Stuff the aesthetics, and I'd buy it over the Re7. The fact that this tranquility actually costs more than the Re7 would mean that a more careful audition in your system would be warranted.
I have MBP with SSD+8Gb Ram. Amarra & Ayrewave. I like the Auraliti more. Even if it didn't sound better then for no other reason than I can play every codec and I can browse and Que. by folder structure.
-
Actually, I'm not surprised. Not that the MBP is a bad source, but with laptops you simply can't get too far from the display screen in terms of noise injected into the system. The SBCs that the auraliti and other similar linux based solutions employ, don't even have video output hardware, let alone a display, so they are bound to be cleaner.
To give you an idea how sensitive all this stuff is, I use a remote control, custom LDR attenuator in my system, and when I turned off the dithered volume control in PureMusic the other day, the extra detail, definition, and bass articulation I got was like night and day. I would have considered the sound I was getting before this change to the best my system has ever sounded, but thiis just took it to another level, and I don't even have hog mode enabled yet.
-- Jim
-
Interesting,
Jim - no controlling volume with Pure Music - so the only volume control you are using is the attenuation in the LDR (which must be some type of passive or active volume control?)
-
Bill,
Yes, the LDR attenuator is an external box that has two inputs, one output and has remote volume and source selection, plus a manual balance control. These use light-dependent resistors for attenuation, so there are no mechanical contacts and the control circuitry is completely isolated from the signal. Absolutely the cleanest and most transparent volume control ever.
I still plan to try the tranquility direct into my amps using the dithered volume control, but I want to make some measurments and build an attenuating interconnect first so I'm sure all the levels are correct and that I'm getting maximum quality out of the dithered volume control. At this point I don't really know which will be better, so that's why the experiment. IMO, these are the two most transparent kinds of cvolume controls one can use. I've come to really dislike pots and stepped attenuators, even the really good ones. I do still use them in less critical gear though.
-- Jim
-
... when I turned off the dithered volume control in PureMusic the other day, the extra detail, definition, and bass articulation I got was like night and day. I would have considered the sound I was getting before this change to the best my system has ever sounded, but thiis just took it to another level, and I don't even have hog mode enabled yet.
-- Jim
Jim, What is the exact procedure for actually turning off the dithered volume control in PM. I found the Audio Settings Menu Page called "Signal Modifiers" and have unchecked the "dithered volume control." However, it doesn't seem to really disable it. Even with that box unchecked, the volume control +/- tabs still work when they are clicked with the mouse. Am I missing something? Thanks. Din
-
Jim, What is the exact procedure for actually turning off the dithered volume control in PM. I found the Audio Settings Menu Page called "Signal Modifiers" and have unchecked the "dithered volume control." However, it doesn't seem to really disable it. Even with that box unchecked, the volume control +/- tabs still work when they are clicked with the mouse. Am I missing something? Thanks. Din
Rob (PM) says that, in the current 1.65, as long as volume is 0.0db then all volume controls are benign/off/out of the signal path. And of course if volume is 0.0db then dithering is a moot subject.
-
Well, all I did was uncheck the same box and that was all I needed to do. iTunes may still be able to control the volume, but I have it set to 100%.
There's a page on the PM web site of tips and tricks for PM, and on that page is a list of things you can do to optimize playback quality, and that's arranged oin descending order of importance. I havn't gone through that whole list yet, just wanted to see what would happen with the dithering turned off.
-- Jim
-
I have MBP with SSD+8Gb Ram. Amarra & Ayrewave. I like the Auraliti more.
I would like to hear more about the Auraliti. I don't want to get this thread off topic so maybe a new thread about it?
-
I would like to hear more about the Auraliti. I don't want to get this thread off topic so maybe a new thread about it?
Jason,
Maybe start a new one over on the discless circle and point Ray to it.
Tom
-
I would like to hear more about the Auraliti. I don't want to get this thread off topic so maybe a new thread about it?
I, with hopefully some help from fellow audiophile acquantances, will be checking this out and comparing it to a Mac-Mini. I will post our impressions in the review section.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi guys,
We've been working our tails off trying to catch up and fulfilling the demand for new Tranquility Signature DACs. Today I can proudly say that we are caught up and have extra Signatures in stock! Now I'd like to "officially" offer the "Signature trade-up" program to all of our prior Tranquility DAC owners. Also, the special $500 introductory discount for the Signature DAC applies to trade-ups too. Please note that the trade-up program for the Signature DAC is for a limited time and will be going away in 2011.
BTW: I've been getting daily emails asking me if any of the "new computers" being talked about as of late are "better sounding" or equal to the Mac Mini. At this point, we've still found the Mac Mini to be the Top Dog sonically and then some. In particular the Mini seriously prevails when it comes to fluidity, space, sound stage size and air around instruments. Other computers just don't seem to have the ability to pass and provide the DAC many of the elusive delicate inner harmonics that define analog fluidity, massive soundstage air and amazing depth cues. Crazy things these computers and how many others just don't seem to pass nearly as much "inner-musical" information as compared to that Mac Mini. :P
As always, we are constantly looking for all front end computer solutions to drive our Tranquility series of dacs to sound their very best. Whenever someone contacts us with a possible computer idea and/or tweak we put on our blindfolds and listen. If some new sort of computer solution should come to market that sounds nearly as good as the Mac Mini I'll be the first to make the announcement to all of my valued customers. :thumb:
Happy Holidays!
Eric Hider
dB Audio Labs
Phone: 248-798-9555
Email: ehider@me.com
Website - www.dbaudiolabs.com
-
We've been working our tails off trying to catch up and fulfilling the demand for new Tranquility Signature DACs
The Tranquility came out very favourably in our shoot out with the following exceptions -
1. Price -
2. Tonality with stings/piano - overblown mids with an over emphasis on certain frequencies giving undue coloration or "bloom".
3. Lack of separation with large scale orchestral - no question about this - it is a common fault among lower - mid range dacs. When the orchestra gets busy the instruments get "mushed up", at least in comparison to the Ref 7.
4. Your insistence on a Mac Mini - one solution of many if you know what you are doing. It isn't any better than any other optimised solution especially one running linux.
5. your usb cable - no better than generic.
Other than that - it is a cracker. I've got it in my system for a week or two and love it: listening mainly to Jazz/vocal and find it enchanting. Chamber sounds ok as well. Piano is a little off but hey - it's hard to get that right.
Certainly runs "hot" is whatever the output vrms is it certainly is loud.
At this point, we've still found the Mac Mini to be the Top Dog sonically and then some.
I'm not sure you can say that when you haven't heard an Auraliti, or any linux based solution. What I think you can say is, in your experience, you have found an optimised mac mini the preferred solution for your dac.
elusive delicate inner harmonics that define analog fluidity, massive soundstage air and amazing depth cues
Uh huh. Your dac is better than needing to come up with the sales adjectives - "elusive", "massive" and "amazing". Let it stand on its own feet. It deserves too. Whoever designed it knows a thing or two about design. Personally I would have a stand alone shunt psu for it ala Teradak's offerings. That I think would really elevate it into something special.
-
Actually, he doesn't list what they've listened to, so you can't say they have "limited experience", either. I would certainly be interested in knowing what music servers have been reviewed, but in other statements (maybe on this thread? can't remember), it sounds like they have plans to review the Auraliti.
Have you made this comparison?
-
Yup.
-
Yup.
Thanks for the clarification, from your review I (mis)understood that the Tranquility and the Ref7 were simultaneously connected to the Auralitti and the Tranquility was not connected to a Mac Mini.
Best,
ed
-
Yup.
Umm, what I read in your review is that you compared the Auraliti and a Macbook Pro. That's not the same as comparing an Auraliti to a Mac Mini, stock or optimized. I have yet to read a review comparing these specific setups. Given that Eric and dB Audio are insistent that the Mac Mini is a major improvement over other Mac products, I would think one would need to compare other music servers against their benchmark if one wants to concretely question their claim.
Mind you, I don't really have a dog in this fight. I like the Mac Mini better than my older linux Asus netbook with solid state drive, but I'm open to other technologies like the Auraliti out-performing the Mac Mini. Seems that all that's solid melts into the air these days in terms of computer technology performance, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear Eric touting the Auraliti or something else in the next month or so as the best thing since sliced bread. Still, we need true head-to-head comparisons to get anywhere with confidence when running around this track.
And now I will end my string of non-complementary metaphors...
-
Hi Guys,
Well I guess I need to re-iterate dB Audio Labs position on why we care to help our customers with computer suggestions.
Our company is more than just a digital component manufacturer. We are a digital solution provider. I seriously care about assisting my customers in getting the best sound possible from their DAC purchase which is fed firstly by a computer. It's about assisting everyone with anything we may learn on this journey of the computer that is feeding their Tranquility DAC it's music data.
A little known fact - When you purchase a Tranquility DAC, I will spend as much time as needed with you via the phone helping you set-up your computer. Going over all the tweaks and optimizations one by one that we've accumulated so you can get the best sound from your Tranquility DAC. This is free for all Tranquility owners. It takes a substantial amount of my free time but the payoff is that my customers will get the cumulative knowledge from hundreds of Tranquility owners and their computer optimization ideas all nailed down and implemented to another Tranquility owner's sound system via one phone call!
So, thus far that the Mac Mini is the best sounding solution. There is nothing keeping us from moving beyond the Mac Mini recommendation mind you. Its just at this point in time we've not heard anything better. Subsequently, since the Mini has held it's ground for over 16 months now, it's led us into a deep data dive with our entire Tranquility ownership base. Since 98% of the Tranquility owners are now using a Mac Mini for their computer, our net has become a great source of tweaking and growing toward constant improvement. Tranquility owners themselves serve as a HUGE net of experimenters that give us feedback on things they try as they tweak around with their Minis. And that helps the entire Computer / Tranquility construct achieve the best sonics. For everyone! Note: we also do the diligence of true double blind listening on our end for these tweaks, ideas. The "this is technically better so it must be implemented" bias doesn't get passed on. Tweaks must pass true sonic muster :eyebrows:
Of a recent quote from my prior post - "many of the elusive delicate inner harmonics that define analog fluidity, massive soundstage air and amazing depth cues". These have been our actual findings to what the Mac Mini's brings to the table. All double blind confirmed mind you. Again, it's just crazy that computers could actually be defined like differences between pre-amps or amps. Who would have thunk it?
In regard to other computer solutions, we are ALWAYS looking for computers to suggest beyond the Mac Mini. Just tonight I had corresponded with a friend who may be able to get an interesting Linux USB transport to try and evaluate. It's all about attempting to identify the best computer front end offerings. Everything supported by the entire Tranquility net of owners and our own research combined.
Cheers to all :green: :green: :green:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
website - www.dbaudiolabs.com
-
I feel compelled to comment that it is also my experience that Eric Hider's customer service is among the best I've encountered in the audio industry. I have narrowed my interactions to a only a handful of audio vendors regarding stereo gear, accessories and opinions, and Eric remains one of them.
About a month ago I received my Tranquility SE DAC, and although is seemed to function perfectly, there was a small concern about possibly damage or defect that it had encountered in shipping. Eric's immediate response (with absolutely no hesitation) was to replace the DAC with a brand new one... no questions asked whatsoever. In addition, Eric allowed me to keep the Tranquility SE in my position until the new one arrived, so that I could get to know the DAC and would not be without a Tranquility until the problem was solved! This is nothing less than first class.
I've rarely posted an "emotional" appeal, but I've watched (from afar) Eric's company and product take a lot of bullets. Eric's a pro, and has handled himself like a big boy with lots of patience throughout. I'm NOT making any claims that the Tranquility SE is the best DAC or is the end-all-be-all, but I continue to be astonished and amazed at the quality of my computer based audio played through the Tranquility SE. Truly astonishing... I never thought I'd make this statement. Alas, I am happy with the DAC and the company. For those that question, I simply suggest for them to actually audition the product within the guidelines that Eric suggests. BTW, I haven't as of yet graduated to a Mac Mini. I am still using a tweaked MacBook Pro and getting the aforementioned results. Therefore, I have no doubt in Eric's claims of a Mac Mini being a better player. I look forward to "upgrading" to a Mini in the new year.
Lastly... no I am not a shill or associated with Db Audio Labs in any way. I found Eric through his advertising and threads on AudioCircle and Audiogon. I made my decision to purchase his product after reading everything I could find, and then by spending three, separate, lengthy phone calls directly with Eric who answered my questions and suspicions. He offered me to audition the product. What else can one expect? Again, this is first class.
Regards,
Din Dayemi
-
I haven't as of yet graduated to a Mac Mini. I am still using a tweaked MacBook Pro and getting the aforementioned results. Therefore, I have no doubt in Eric's claims of a Mac Mini being a better player. I look forward to "upgrading" to a Mini in the new year.
My experiences exactly. Sounds great with a MacBook Pro. I'm looking forward to getting me a MacMini too.
-
I remember going from my Macbook to my 2010 Mac Mini and some the differences were profound. I noticed more air and bloom on vocals plus deeper bass. Going to the Mini was well worth it IMO!
-
Hy Guys
I have tested the Tranquility with and without a Mac-Mini and it makes a big difference. But I do have high hopes of the Auraliti:
http://www.auraliti.com/
I have ordered one and will be doing a comparison to an optimized mac-mini. I believe Eric may be checking it out as well. People thinking of upgrading to a mini may like to delay it until the comparisons are complete.
Thanks
Bill
-
:D Eric is top shelf,let that be know. just got the new upgraded dac today.warming now. :D
-
Today, by way of update, I am listening to Andreas Schiff playing the Goldbergs. I have today the Auraliti hooked up to the Tranquility SE - Jadis Orchestra Reference - Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors.
It is presenting an enchanting presentation full of nuance and delicacy. It is a little suspect in tone with the piano (it tends to burnish the edges a little) but overall if you seek an analogue presentation (which I take as meaning "musical") then the Tranquility should be at the top of your audition list under $2k (which is where I think it is currently).
Add excellent customer service and you have a winner. Especially for non computer types wanting to get into the big bad world of computer audio - having Eric on hand to guide you through set up is worth the cost of admission alone.
-
I'm very curious if anyone has tried using the Vaunix Lab Brick USB Hub to send the USB signal, rather than straight out of the computer. One of the biggest problems with USB based audio is that the USB format itself was never designed for audiophile purposes. The signal and power sections are really not isolated at all. Getting the unnecessary bus power away from the DAC by using that Lab Brick rather than a motherboard USB port should provide some improvement, and for those using laptops, should eliminate the difference between battery and AC power. Another, much cheaper possibility is that since the Tranquility isn't bus powered, use a USB cable that has the power section disconnected, like the one available with the battery powered Hiface. Even the most expensive audiophile grade cable is still carrying 5V bus power that not only doesn't need to be there but is highly detrimental to the sound.
Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work. Any standard adaptive mode USB to SPdif converter has similar problems. Would using Streamlength add to the price of the DAC? Sure. More than the "required" tricked out Mac Mini? No. It would also open up 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192. Which, let's face it, is the future of audio. ART makes the same argument with their Legato that 44.1 is all most people need, and that's probably true for a couple more years, max.
-
Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work.
It doesn't indicate that to me - it indicates the 'special sauce' works extremely well because it is so transparent to what it is fed. Remember this DAC is designed by a top notch DAC expert - anything you can think of to make it better they would have thought of. The reason it is not used is it almost certainly is not theoretically better and/or a double blind test showed it was sonically inferior. The 'special sauce' is in fact the large amount of R&D that went into investigating just about anything you can think of.
Thanks
Bill
-
Welcome to audiocircle ...
Let's have fun!
I'm very curious if anyone has tried using the Vaunix Lab Brick USB Hub to send the USB signal, rather than straight out of the computer. One of the biggest problems with USB based audio is that the USB format itself was never designed for audiophile purposes. The signal and power sections are really not isolated at all. Getting the unnecessary bus power away from the DAC by using that Lab Brick rather than a motherboard USB port should provide some improvement, and for those using laptops, should eliminate the difference between battery and AC power. Another, much cheaper possibility is that since the Tranquility isn't bus powered, use a USB cable that has the power section disconnected, like the one available with the battery powered Hiface. Even the most expensive audiophile grade cable is still carrying 5V bus power that not only doesn't need to be there but is highly detrimental to the sound.
Also, the fact that the Tranquility is SO sensitive to the source would seem to indicate that whatever special sauce is being applied to the USB implementation doesn't work. Any standard adaptive mode USB to SPdif converter has similar problems. Would using Streamlength add to the price of the DAC? Sure. More than the "required" tricked out Mac Mini? No. It would also open up 88.2, 96, 176.4, and 192. Which, let's face it, is the future of audio. ART makes the same argument with their Legato that 44.1 is all most people need, and that's probably true for a couple more years, max.
-
It doesn't indicate that to me - it indicates the 'special sauce' works extremely well because it is so transparent to what it is fed. Remember this DAC is designed by a top notch DAC expert - anything you can think of to make it better they would have thought of. The reason it is not used is it almost certainly is not theoretically better and/or a double blind test showed it was sonically inferior. The 'special sauce' is in fact the large amount of R&D that went into investigating just about anything you can think of.
Thanks
Bill
Sorry, but I don't buy it. The better the receiver, the LESS sensitive it should be to the quality, or lack thereof, of the source. This isn't a linestage we're talking about where utter transparency to the source is the ideal. It's actually the opposite. Re-clockers like the Pace-car work not by being transparent to the source buy by scrubbing it clean.
Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.
-
Just curious if you've ever listened to this dac, or just speculating?
Have you also examined the any of the better usb cables to see how the power and signal are isolated.
Did you also know that most usb devices simply won't work without the power lines as that is what the receiver chip needs in order to "wake up", even if the device is not powered through the cable?
Did you read the first paragraph of Joohnny Darko's review of the dac?
I've had several async dacs, and none of them come close to the jitter performance of the Tranquility -- usually best demonstrated by the huge soundstage. And jitter is not jitter, there are places where it matters and places where it doesn't matter as much.
Also, simply adding streamlength does not increase the resolution of the dac, the dac chip itself has to support those rates.
Really, until youve listened to this dac with various source computers and software, and a few different cables, you're just guessing based on some faulty "common knowledge" that seems to float all over the audio forums.
-- Jim
-
The DAC's own designer indicates that unless you're using a Mac Mini, you're not getting the performance that you paid for. Is that speculation? For those of us unwilling to buy a Mac, that's basically saying "don't buy this". What's so magical about the Mini? OSX and whatever software players may play a very small role, but the big deal seems to be either its USB output is less jittery, and/or contains less noise from the power supply than other computers.
That's why I asked if anyone had tried the Lab Brick. If the super secret USB implementation really is better than Streamlength at dealing with jitter, then is it all down to just 5V bus power noise? If so, solving that is extremely easy, and by no means requires buying a new computer. If you can't get away with no bus power at all, route the power part of the USB cable to a separate power supply (as with the optional battery Hiface cable). The Lab Brick is basically the same idea - get the bus power away from the computer.
-
The problem I see is that the dB Audio Labs DAC isn't cheap (at least not to me), and then to say that you have to buy the Mac Mini on top of that, really puts the price out of range.
-
The problem I see is that the dB Audio Labs DAC isn't cheap (at least not to me), and then to say that you have to buy the Mac Mini on top of that, really puts the price out of range.
You can't do this in steps (buy the dac now and a Mini later)? The Mac Mini is only a recommendation.
-
Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.
Where did you get this info about Asynchronous because your sadly missed informed? It was a choice based on sonics not cost. If you wanna find out more about this e-mail Eric.
-
You can't do this in steps (buy the dac now and a Mini later)? The Mac Mini is only a recommendation.
This is exactly the process that I have started using... a Tranquility SE with my MacBook Pro. I will upgrade to a Mac Mini, etc. in steps. Nonetheless, the sound is outstanding.
-
This is exactly process. I have started using a Tranquility SE with my MacBook Pro. I will upgrade to a Mac Mini, etc. in steps. Nonetheless, the sound is outstanding.
I used a Macbook, until this fall, before I bought a Mini. And the wait was worth it IMO.
-
Dave,
You sound very confident in many of your assumptions about the dac, usb for audio, and what makes the difference with the Mac Mini (reducing it's superior performance to the condition of the power on the usb port.)
But since you seem to have no real experience with any of these things yourself, it's all just speculation. Have you made these measurements, have you even listened? What about the people who say the mac mini makes all their usb dacs sound better? What about all the people, myself included who used both versions of the Tranquility with a less than optimum, run of the mill xp box and still thought it was among the best digital I've ever heard (including some in very rarified territory)? How about the fact that all this wonderful sound is in fact using usb, that non-optimum audiio interface?
If you don't want the great sound of the Tranquility, if you're convinced that usb is a terrible thing and/or that bus power, even though it is not used for anything but waking up the receiver chip in this dac, is the cause of all sonic problems with usb, then... don't buy one. :-) But please cast your dark cloud elsewhere. It's fine to be skeptical, but without any real world experience and speculatiing based on internet hear-say, is really not productive.
-- Jim
-
This canard about the "Tranquility DAC requires a Mac Mini" needs to be put to rest once and for all.
I bought my Tranquility when I had a notebook computer as a source, and I was thrilled with it. It was clearly better than the PS Audio Link DAC III (with Cullen mods) that I was using.
The Tranquility or Tranquility SE is the foundation of a system that you can live with happily over the long term. I did try the Mac Mini after a while (months) and things went from excellent to more excellent. I'm very glad that I had a DAC that had room to grow, so to speak.
-
This canard about the "Tranquility DAC requires a Mac Mini" needs to be put to rest once and for all.
I bought my Tranquility when I had a notebook computer as a source, and I was thrilled with it. It was clearly better than the PS Audio Link DAC III (with Cullen mods) that I was using.
The Tranquility or Tranquility SE is the foundation of a system that you can live with happily over the long term. I did try the Mac Mini after a while (months) and things went from excellent to more excellent. I'm very glad that I had a DAC that had room to grow, so to speak.
I cannot agree more, as I have PERSONAL experience on various sources and in no way MUST you use a Mac Mini. People that are looking at this DAC but won't buy it simply because they don't want to buy a Mac Mini, please, you are being misinformed by people that don't even have experience with this DAC and/or computer audio. The Mac Mini is a great source because it is a great source, not because the Tranquility was built alongside some people at Apple to get some magical audiophile experience. I've used the Mac Mini, via USB, on my Wyred4Sound DAC-2 and it was by far the best source I could find and experience. I've tried both the W4S DAC-2 and Tranquility on various PC, Mac Mini and Windows versus Mac setups and the Mac Mini / OS X wins with both. And the Wyred4Sound DAC-2 has many other connection options yet I still feel I got the best experience via USB to the Mac Mini.
Sure the W4S DAC-2 and Tranquility sounded okay on a PC setup, even great on Windows 7 via a Mac Mini, but the Mac Mini / OS X combo sounded and still sounds the best to me. I actually preferred my Squeezebox Touch via SPDIF for my W4S DAC-2 compared to a PC via USB, but the Mac Mini / Mac OS X is hands down the winner, regardless of DACs.
I'd say at the very least, if you have any concerns about the Tranquility and you haven't even heard it, give Eric a call and he'll answer any questions you have. You can also order one and hear it for yourself, as this thing transforms computer audio into actual MUSIC. And you can always return it if you are not satisfied.
The Mac Mini is simply the best computer source that most people have found at the moment. If someone new comes out in a few months, you'll be hearing people rave about that combo with the Tranquility SE. Eric himself has acknowledged that they themselves have spent large amounts in R&D trying out various sources, and they only recommend the Mac Mini because they find it to sound the best for their customers.
It's all about the music, in the end. The Mac Mini is cheap enough to be a GREAT source for computer audio and you can use it for other purposes as well if need be. Certainly prices of other transports are much much higher, so I'd suggest that you try it and see how it works out for you. If not now, you can always get one down the road, as the Tranquility sounds great on various equipment. :)
-
Sorry, but I don't buy it. The better the receiver, the LESS sensitive it should be to the quality, or lack thereof, of the source. This isn't a linestage we're talking about where utter transparency to the source is the ideal. It's actually the opposite. Re-clockers like the Pace-car work not by being transparent to the source buy by scrubbing it clean. Didn't DB basically say that Asynchronous was not used for cost reasons? There is NO other reason I can think of not to use it.
Sure async solves some of the problems - but not all. The reason DB Audio does not use it is not cost - it is the solution they chose does a better job than async. You are free to believe this or not. But harping on about it wont get you any further than what I said above. DB Audiolabs are not about to release the details of their proprietary knowledge to satisfy the idle curiosity of an armchair audiophile. Read John Darkos excellent review:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/169-dblabs-tranquility-usb-dac-signature-edition
Thanks
Bill
-
Really, until youve listened to this dac with various source computers and software, and a few different cables, you're just guessing based on some faulty "common knowledge" that seems to float all over the audio forums.
Exactly. People are bringing a very limited knowledge to bear on what is a very complex subject. I pointed out to one person you cant even consider what goes down the USB cable as digital data - it is in fact an RF signal from which digital data is extracted. He said I was wrong. I pointed out some consequences of the basic Gibbs phenomena and guess what - he didn't even know what that was. That really gets to me - they basically want to say the Tranquility engineers are on the wrong track and they don't know basic signal theory.
Thanks
Bill
-
I cannot agree more, as I have PERSONAL experience on various sources and in no way MUST you use a Mac Mini.
+1 to your entire post. I too have both a Tranquility and a WFS DAC 2. I have had your exact experience. The Mac Mini is not required to get great sound - it is simply the best generally available source right now. That may be about to change. Watch out for my comparison of an optimized Mac Mini to the Auraliti.
Anyone who wants to discuss the design of the Tranquility simply needs to give Eric a ring. Obviously he won't give away proprietary secrets but he will explain what is going on at the level appropriate to your background.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks, HF and Bhobba,
You understand my pints exactly. Well said.
-- Jim
-
Having said that, I am curious to what power cords you guys are using with the Tranquility SE? I am using a Pangea 14SE right now and like the results - but I have limited cords to compare it to. I have a WyWires Juice power cord coming my way soon, so I'll have that to try out.
I find power cords to usually have a pretty solid impact on a component's performance, so I'm just curious if any of you have tried multiple cords out on the Tranquility SE or if you find it doesn't have much of an impact.
I also put the Mac Mini and Tranquility SE DAC back on the ÜberBUSS after a few weeks off of it, and I have to say, my system sounds so much better with the source and DAC into the ÜberBUSS. I've heard on some systems the DAC and Mac Mini are better off without being plugged into filtration units, but in my system they really shine being in the BUSS. Much more weight to instruments, more organic sounding and it has that real texture that gives life to some recordings. I also took the BUSS off of a ZeroSurge 8R15W-I and plugged it straight into the wall, and dynamics and clarity were bumped up quite a bit. Possibly due to my amp needing more direct power, but I find since I got my new speakers, I notice changes with my gear more easily. :thumb:
-
Having said that, I am curious to what power cords you guys are using with the Tranquility SE? I am using a Pangea 14SE right now and like the results - but I have limited cords to compare it to. I have a WyWires Juice power cord coming my way soon, so I'll have that to try out. I find power cords to usually have a pretty solid impact on a component's performance, so I'm just curious if any of you have tried multiple cords out on the Tranquility SE or if you find it doesn't have much of an impact.
I am using a QED power chord recommended by some guy I know into that sort of stuff - although right now I have both my Tranquility and WFS out on loan for others to check out. I am using my emergency DAC right now - an Audio GD Compass but have that new Burson DAC on order for it to be my new emergency DAC. I really miss the better DAC's. Anyway the power chord did make a big difference.
Interestingly I have never checked out the differences between the USB cables and will need to around to that one day. I have the signature USB cable on order from Eric and when it arrives I will be giving it a proper checkout.
My Auraliti has arrived. I got it sent to Mike Lenehan whose reference system I usually check stuff out on and he was really keen to hear it. Guess what? Neither he or his IT guy could get it working - they could not get it to find the IP address. It sounds like a really good product but those types of problems are a real pain. It hopefully will be sorted out shortly and we can do a though comparison soon. Keep a lookout for the writeup.
Thanks
Bill
-
"- The USB input is a cumulation of selected low jitter parts, unique low litter pathways and proprietary receiver optimizations meant to keep the cost of the dac from skyrocketing, avoiding using costly async. or other methods. "
If the designers think that their implementation sounds better than Streamlength, that's fine. That's not what I get from reading that though. How much would adding a Streamlength license and implementation really add to the cost? How much more immune to a less than "perfect" source would the Tranquility be if it had Streamlength? That's what I'd like to know. The guy who used a QB-9 with Streamlength indicated that it's much better than the Tranquility when not fed by a Mac Mini.
It may be an incredible sounding DAC. That's not what I'm arguing. I think PS and Empirical have the right idea about getting sound off of a HDD, Squeezebox, whatever, with the Network Bridge/Digital Lens and Pace-car. You should not have to obsess over tweaking the source to get it just exactly right, and you certainly shouldn't have to buy a new computer. Bit-perfect output should be enough.
-
Bit-perfect output should be enough.
A very superficial understanding of such things often leads the inexperienced to think that but start listening to the difference in how different bit perfect players sound and that notion will quickly go out the window. Trouble is since on the surface such a notion seems so compelling even when presented with incontrovertible evidence such as participation in blind listening tests people shake their heads - it takes a while for notions like that to be displaced. I have seen this on a number of occasions. By far the most important thing is to understand what travels down the USB cable is not digital - it is RF. Once you fully grasp that then understanding how RF hash that occurs at different levels in different computers and even between different bit perfect players can make DAC's sound different then you are on you way to a much truer understanding of his stuff.
BTW I happen to know the reason the Tranquility does not use async - it is because it would require proprietary drivers and not cost. They would spend the money if it would resolve all the issues - but it doesn't - whereas what they did choose was better. I also have heard a couple of async DAC's- and even own one - the WFS - and none are as good as the Tranquility. If you believe otherwise I suggest you get a Tranquility, get an async DAC and conduct your own comparison. I have done that and the Tranquility wins.
If you want to go out and get a DAC like an overdrive and a pacecar - go ahead. I have recently been involved in the development of a new DAC and have seen the differences in doing this stuff makes to how a DAC sounds. Believe me this jitter and stuff is not where the gains are to be made - it is in the output stage and power supply. Using stuff like Duelund caps and better power supply chokes made a much bigger difference.
Thanks
Bill
-
BTW I happen to know the reason the Tranquility does not use async - it is because it would require proprietary drivers and not cost. They would spend the money if it would resolve all the issues - but it doesn't - whereas what they did choose was better. I also have heard a couple of async DAC's- and even own one - the WFS - and none are as good as the Tranquility. If you believe otherwise I suggest you get a Tranquility, get an async DAC and conduct your own comparison. I have done that and the Tranquility wins.
If you want to go out and get a DAC like an overdrive and a pacecar - go ahead.
Sorry, but that's not true. Streamlength only requires drivers if you need to support higher than 24/96 on Windows. Since it is a NOS DAC limited to 16/44, the Tranquility with Streamlength Asynch would be plug and play, just like the ART Legato which uses Streamlength and is also limited to 16/44.
Did DB try a version of their DAC with Streamlength and then decide not to use it because they believe their system is better? If that's the case, that's fine. I would disagree, but I'll shut up about the issue. If not, I don't see how you can say that their implementation is better than Gordon's when it's so source sensitive that only ONE magic machine is good enough.
The only comparable solid-state USB DAC with Streamlength that I know of is the Ayre, and someone who did the comparison indicated that the Ayre is much better than the Tranquility without its magic source in front. I'm not interested in the W4S, and I'm not going to drop $5,000 on the Tranquility and the QB-9 to see which is better on my Win 7 machine with Foobar and WASAPI. The QB-9 isn't the world's greatest DAC anyway. I'd rather get a Wavelink HS or an Off-ramp 4, and something like an Audio-GD NFB-8.
-
Hi DaveBSC:
Just a simple question that only requires a Yes or NO answer. Have you ever listened to a dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC?
-
No. If they make a version with a BNC or AES input so that better USB conversion can be used, I'd certainly be willing to try that. Frankly I'd also like to see a truly balanced output given the price of the top version.
-
No. If they.....
Enough said.
-
Enough said.
Did DB say they basically demand that their customers get Mac Minis? Or did I make that up?
-
Sorry, but that's not true.
Whats not true? I am claiming that the standard USB drivers do not handle async right now? Are you claiming that is false?
Thanks
Bill
-
Enough said.
Agreed.
Thanks
Bill
-
Did DB say they basically demand that their customers get Mac Minis? Or did I make that up?
They did not demand that. No-one is claiming you made anything up but rather probably did not read things carefully enough or maybe out of context. Also you are falling into the trap of extrapolating a superficial understanding of this stuff beyond the limits it can reasonably be taken - but you are not the only one to do that. It is pretty obvious however you have some ingrained ideas not open to challenge like the guy who had zero idea what the basic Gibbs phenomena was yet thought he knew more than professional signal processing engineers.
Thanks
Bill
-
Whats not true? I am claiming that the standard USB drivers do not handle async right now? Are you claiming that is false?
Yes, that is false. Taken straight from ART - "Works with the drivers supplied with your computer. " Their Legato is using Streamlength asynchronous mode transfer, which does NOT require custom drivers at 44.1 or 96.
-
Demand, strongly encourage, highly recommend, whatever. The point is that in order to sound its best, the DB needs a Mac Mini in front of it, this comes straight from the company. Which is great if you have or want a Mac Mini. Otherwise, not so great.
Streamlength should not have this issue, so why doesn't the Tranquility use it? I still haven't gotten a good answer.
-
Streamlength should not have this issue, so why doesn't the Tranquility use it? I still haven't gotten a good answer.
My understanding is licencing fees are payable to Wavelength to make use of some async stuff in the newer versions of standard drivers. Maybe they did not want to pay those fees or maybe they wanted it to be useable even with older drivers. But a number of manufacturers that use async have written their own drivers (eg WFS) so their obviously is a reason. Why not contact Eric and ask him?
But again I have to ask - why are you even worried about this technical stuff? Surely the proof of the pudding is this is one of the best sounding DAC's out there - and I have compared it to some much more expensive stuff. Just what DAC's built according to your philosophy have you compared to the Tranquility to verify your views?
Thanks
Bill
-
Demand, strongly encourage, highly recommend, whatever. The point is that in order to sound its best, the DB needs a Mac Mini in front of it, this comes straight from the company. Which is great if you have or want a Mac Mini. Otherwise, not so great.
Let me get this straight. You think it is an issue that in order to get the best out of the Tranquility you need the best source. Next thing you will tell me it is an issue you need a good amp to get the best out of loudspeakers. I am more and more reminded of Johns comments about armchair audiophiles.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much. Maybe you could ask Eric to start up an Industry Ads thread and then you can ask him about it there.
-
Asynchronous DACs like the W4S and Northstar use custom drivers in order to support 176.4 and 192. The default Windows USB drivers don't support those resolutions, so drivers are required. At 44.1, it's not an issue. Now that the Ayre supports 192, I assume Ayre supplies drivers for that as well.
I think that the ideal USB DAC needs galvanic isolation, dual fixed frequency clocks for multiples of 44.1 and 48, separate transformers for the analog and digital sections, and some form of asynchronous mode transfer. Not all asynchronous implementations are equal, just as not all adaptive mode implementations are equal. It seems that for the time being Gordon's system is the best, although I'm sure whatever Steve at Empirical has cooked up for the Off-ramp 4 is good as he knows his stuff.
Of course after all this comes the DACs themselves and then the analog output section which are just as important. The nice thing about the Wavelink and Off-ramp is they let you use a DAC with a crappy USB implementation like the Bryston, or none at all like the Berkeley. A Wavelink or Off-ramp connected to the legendary Spectral DAC should smash anything on the market to tiny bits.
-
db audio needs the latest mac mini to sound its best - take it or leave it ... it may or may not float everyone's boat ...
whatever works ... as long as you enjoy the music ...
Cheers
-
Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much.
Welcome to audiocircle ...
Let's have fun!
Yeah, it appears we have some antagonists here. Probably not worth fighting them. I suspect they're immigrants from another more adversarial forum.
-
Highfilter,
I'm currently using an Element Signature Terminator with my SE. At 10AWG, just a bit of overkill, but it's the best PC I have in the house at the moment. I've only compared it with generic "black devils" as I like to call them, and the Element is significantly better, but that doesn't mean that another purpose-built cable won't be better still. I do plan to give the Pi Audio Source1 a try sometoime soon, and I have lots of different kinds of wire, terminations, dielectric materials, etc., and I will probably roll a few of my own -- just for the fun of it. I built the power cables for my Fi 2a3 monos and I somehow managed to just hit the nail on the head with those, though I'll probably rebuild them in a longer length when I get my Rev B buss from Pi Audio.
I'm expecting in another experimental cabl, that will be less than $100 so I'll be interested to see how that performs too.
-- Jim
P.S. - regarding that other discussion, I have had a Proton, Cosecant v.3, and the Legato feeding a Havana, and all were nice, very nice in fact, and the Legato really took the Havana to new places, but given the less than stellar USB implementation of that dac, that was to be expected. Again, all very nice dacs, but guess which oone is still here, and is staying? Now I'mdm done with that discussion...
-
Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much. Maybe you could ask Eric to start up an Industry Ads thread and then you can ask him about it there.
....and relieve the long-suffering Facilitator (moi) from overseeing this floating hulk of a topic that I've had to intervene in an unprecedented amount of time compared to any other topic I can remember in my 8+ years of Facilitating/Moderating at AC :o
Eric - I know you're out there - please start another discussion in Industry Ads. It'll be better for you as no one in their right mind is going back 40 pages to read this entire discussion.
A new, shorter discussion will foster better understanding of your products and any message you want to convey.
Thx, John
-
[
Per Audio Circle's moderators request -
I have started a brand new thread in the Industry ad section titled "dB Audio Labs Tranquility - technical musings and computer discussions
Here is the link: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89127.0 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89127.0)
The purpose of this thread could be for everyone to sort out their many technical discussions and hypothesis about cause and effects of the multitudes of computer variants, jitter reduction schemes, playback schemes, connectivity schemes, etc...Those seemed to be the various discussion that were most recently talked about lately which deviated from the original review of the Tranquility itself and subsequent feedback from other Tranquility owners and others who have auditioned the Tranquility DAC.
Happy Holidays! :green: :green: :green:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs www.dbaudiolabs.com
-
Thank you Eric :thumb:
I think it'll be better suited to that area as it will allow you to veer from the strictly 'review' nature of The Critic's Circle.
Regards, John (co-Facilitator)
-
Yeah, it appears we have some antagonists here. Probably not worth fighting them. I suspect they're immigrants from another more adversarial forum.
For the record, people are perfectly allowed, and I would say encouraged, to express contrary oppinions in the critic's circles, provided that they are on-topic, non-personal, and expressed constructively and respectfully. Not everyone is going to like every piece of gear in all systems with all music all the time. What one doesn't like about a system is often more useful to others as what one likes, provided that the author provides enough context and detail.
-
Ah excellent...
in that case today I had a mate over with a highly modded DIY paradise Monica and hot rodded psu.
It was clearly better than the Tranquility SE in the system I had in use today: Auraliti - bnc - Monica - JOR - Rogers LS4a/Quad 57/SF Cremona Auditors. By better I mean a bloody sight more pleasant to listen to.
Again the Tranquility SE had same issue of an over egged output at certain frequencies (like a "loudness button" has been switched on to emphasis dynamics), a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral. The modded Monica in comparison was a joy to listen to and very close to the Ref 7. Which made me feel fairly small as I have paid A$2k for the Ref 7 and my mate, with a little smarts, has a comparable dac for about A$600.
Of note we both much preferred vinyl on my old and cheap second hand JVC QL Y3F running a DL 301 into a cheap $100 phono. And no the Tranquility nor the Monica sounded remotely like vinyl; But I digress....
-
As a reminder, I'd also suggest that people re-read the Critic's Circle Guidelines (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=45439.0) to see what consititutes a good review.
Agcs57, you've brief comments provided some of the suggested background, but I would encourage you to add details on your room, audition music, personal system preferences (warm, dynamic, preferred listening level, etc.). This gives readers more perspective and lets them better relate your comments to their own audio experiences and preferences. FYI, entering your system (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems) and providing a link provides a convenient short cut.
(And I address agcs57 specifically only because he was the last to post review related comments; the suggestions are really global in nature.)
-
Eric, thanks for creating the separate thread in Industry Ads! I would encourage posters to ask specific product related questions of Eric there, but feel free to continue posting review material here.
While I'm in a "reminding" frame of mind, let me also suggest that all members review the AC Posting Guidelines (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=37305.0) in addition to the Critic's Circle guideliness I referenced in the last post.
In particular, I think it is worth highlighting the following:
- "We have a no dirty laundry policy, which says that while a few disagreements on a site such as this are expected and normal, you can't bring fights here that are nothing to do with this site."
My co-facilitator and I are concerned only with what transpires with AC in general, and the Critic's Circles in particular. Feel free to respond constructively to anything posted on AC, but please refrain from responding to material posted on other sites.
Again, this is a review thread. Differences of opinion are going to exist. That in no way diminishes the product under review. This hobby were boring if we all liked exactly the same thing!
Heck, look at your co-facilitators... TheChairGuy likes that silly vinyl stuff, while I'm a nutty bit-head. Oddly enough, we get along just fine! ;)
Viva la difference!
-
Heck, look at your co-facilitators... TheChairGuy likes that silly vinyl stuff, while I'm a nutty bit-head. Oddly enough, we get along just fine! ;)
Viva la difference!
Silly vinyl? Ok, when you think about in the overall scheme of life - the whole audiophooldom thing for all of us is bizarre :)
Yup, no dirty laundry, try to understand there is a person, with feelings, behind every keyboard and we'll all do just fine :thumb:
John / co-Conspirator The Critic's Circle
-
Sure thing brj
I have a dedicated room probably 4.5m (W) x 5.5m (L) x3 m (H) that opens out to the hall. It has a sprung timber floor that has a rug on. I subscribe to the targeted intervention approach of room treatment - well I would if I got around to it again. My last room had shocking nodes at 80 and 115Hz so I have 2 active resonators made up to pick up 80 - 120 Hz freq. So I have those in the room but they aren't really necessary. My system doesn't do much under 50Hz (well it will a day or two - I have some TBI Magellans arriving) so I haven't addressed the bass (again yet).
From my speaker choice you will see I favour timbral accuracy with a hint of romance ie I like a little colour. My 57's are my default speaker for midrange purity. I like the Rogers as I do Harbeth - they are very similar: very BBC. The SF Cremona Auditors are a mate's who I'm minding for a while. Nice speaker but needs subs to flesh out. They are well suited to Jadis.
I've also got some single drivers and a 2A3. Just for fun.
Front end is the Auraliti. Dacs are various. My affordable reference is the Dac Ref 7. My absolute reference is dCS, which I have heard many times and know very well in the context of another system.
I listen to 90% classical. 10 % Jazz and vocal. I like it all.
This wasn't a formal "review session" more immediate ideas from a days listening session. we spent 80% of the time listening to vinyl. The 20% listening to bits was mainly Beethoven - various performances including the legendary Klemperer/Barenboim Piano Concerto's from the 1960's (67 or 68 I believe) and the entire 9th. We also put on some Jazz and vocal - usual suspects - Gardot / some Monk and a little Lee Morgan.
This is in no way meant as any form of negative criticism of the Tranquility SE - I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.
-
This is in no way meant as any form of negative criticism of the Tranquility SE - I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.
I guess I don't get it. In your previous post you said that the Tranquility SE had "an over egged output at certain frequencies, a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral."
You go on to say that a modded Monica [at 1/3 cost] "in comparison was a joy to listen to".
So in your next post you again refer to the Tranquility SE and say "I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.".
I really don't know what to think.
Steve
-
Thanks for the added details, agcs57.
I won't speak for anyone but myself, but I will say that it doesn't strike me as odd to admire something yet still be critical of it and want to improve a few things. I've more than once wanted to combine traits of multiple pieces of gear...
(As an example, I dare say that most personal relationships I'm aware of fall in this category... you may love someone, but I suspect that doesn't mean you find them perfect in absolutely every way! And for those of you that lucky, I commend you!)
Now, having said that, consistancy and clarity in a review are definitely to be strived for. (I'm assuming a short time frame here... obviously one's preferences may change over time, and thus that might lead to the appearance of inconsistancy.)
-
I guess I don't get it. In your previous post you said that the Tranquility SE had "an over egged output at certain frequencies, a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral."
First I must say I personally do not agree with Andrew - to me this DAC is dead neutral. I have demoed it to a number people including a guy at a local Hi Fi store and one of the first comments they make is this thing is very neutral. I have also spoken to someone who has heard the SE a lot as well and a DCS. The DCS was more detailed and quicker - in fact its speed I have been told is simply phenomenal and leaves the Tranquility in the dust. If you concentrate on certain aspects like speed etc you will probably find the DCS is better. However one area the Tranquility is better is in it beguiling analogue like liquidity that is simply a joy to listen to - from what I have been told the DCS has a slight digital edge and coldness that detracts from its enjoyment for some. I believe that is what Andrew may be referring to. Yes in just about every area if you examine it critically a DAC like the DCS is better - but as far as enjoyment goes the Tranquility is really good. I can't hear the piano issue and I listen to a lot of Jazz that has piano. But I have been told if it does have that issue it is usually associated with speed rather than neutrality.
My take is this DAC is one of the three best I have heard, and I have heard a Ref 5. The other DAC's in that group, in the US market, cost from a bit more to a lot more and are basically hand made. The Tranquility has this incredible beguiling liquidity that makes it simply a joy to listen to. It is also as neutral a DAC I have ever heard. I can't hear midrange bloom or anything like that.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hmmm
I feel it isn't valid to categorise most equipment in absolute terms: black or white, all good or all bad. In truth many eg dacs have enjoyable and less enjoyable aspects to them, which only surface when you hear them against other eg dacs.
Sorry I don't mean to confuse anyone - I really liked a lot about the Tranquility SE but found certain areas which, in the context of the music I enjoy, a little bit of an issue.
I quite often like gear that I am critical about - nothing is perfect or the holy grail - everything has strengths and weaknesses. dCS for example: I'm not sure I would necessaily chose a dCS stack but I am always amazed at what it can do and it certainly serves as a reference for me. Similarly the MH Lio8 - amazing mastering tool but wasn't for me. I should say that dCS has, when combined with their upsampler, a depth of sound stage and separation I haven't heard elsewhere. It requires, at least for me, a generous ancillary system. Another reference for me is the 47 Labs pi Tracer and Gemini system with separate power humpties. Heard in the context of a Avantgarde Trio/ Audio Note Jp system it is simply mind blowingly natural. But then again that is a $300,000+ system.
I suppose that ultimately while the Tranquilty SE is certainly a dac I could live with very happily it is not a dac I would personally go toward with my taste in music being as it is. If like Bill I predominantly listened to Vocal jazz it is dac I could happily own and enjoy. It is gorgeous with that type of music.
If I lived in the USA and could benefit from the $1895 intro price and 30 day audition period I would most certainly audition a Tranquility SE, and I would encourage others to do so as well. After all one cannot base one's purchasing decision on the ramblings of someone like me in a system you have never heard and may well dislike. You actually have to hear it in your own system to make a judgement.
In the context of other's individual system and musical preferences they may not find it unbalanced at all. Americans (and this is a gross generalisation of course) tend to the drier presentation in their main stream equipment (Thiel, ARC, Passlabs, Wilson) so a hint of bloom in a dac would be a lovely thing.
I disagree with Bill in his assessment of it's neutrality. I certainly feel it is not as true to the timbre as eg the Ref 7 or even the highly modded Monica I had the pleasure of hearing: but that very quality may well be what others like about it. The modded Monica was a joy: it allowed a much greater separation in the 9th we listened to (lovely performance btw:Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 & Overture Prometheus Otto Klemperer & Philharmonia Orchestra - you can buy it on iTunes for those interested: I had CD copy to enjoy). The tone was simply better: eg the horns sounded like horns with the edginess they should have. The Tranquility on my system rolled the edges a little and when things got busy ie large scale orchestral it got a little unstuck.
Anyway these are just my listening thoughts. Others will disagree and that is entirely appropriate in this thread.
As for being analogue like I'm not sure I have heard any dac I would categorise as like vinyl. IMHO and IME nothing sounds like vinyl except vinyl. Pops crackles and all.
I'll sign off this thread now. The Tranquility is going back to Darko and will go onto the next lucky fellow to have a listen. I would like to thank Bill for his generosity and good will in allowing what is for us, an exotic piece of gear, to do the rounds. And I would also commend Eric and Bill for not trying to exercise any editorial influence in my posts or listening thoughts.
In summary I would say the Tranquility is, in my view, a wonderful dac worthy of your audition.It is undoubtedly one of those products that will stand on its own merits, as indeed it should. It may very well tick all your boxes in which case it will be an end game move.
Cheerio and happy hi fi
Andrew
-
Thanks for posting your listening impressions Andrew, even if you had to take heat from the thread regulars to do so. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Hello, this is my first post to AC. I just recently acquired a Tranquility (not SE), auditioned and bought a Signature Essential USB cable, and I really enjoy music through this DAC.
I play it through iTunes with AIFF files from a peripheral Oyen HD.
I followed all of Eric's recommendations and advice in the setup of a 2010 MacMini (btw the ability to work/play in 64 rather than 32 is huge). The PC is an RSA Poeima!!! , also a nice fit.
The whole system/experience is just incredibly musical, and I agree with several of the immediately previous posts. On my system piano and piano jazz is really a pleasure. Right now Ry Cooder and V.M Bhatt's "Meeting by the River" is just very open, un-congested, musical.
I came to the Tranquility a complete skeptic, a stubborn doubter, and found the praise of it just a little too over the top... and well, here I am... it's a good fit for most of my tastes in music.
-
Another brand-new review of the Tranquility SE.... and a rather interesting comparison with the Weiss 202!
http://digital-analog.blogspot.com/2010/12/review-db-audio-labs-tranquility-dac.html
-
As I read the review, I think one of the things the reviewer left out is Eric's advice to run the 2010 Mac mini in 64 rather that 32 mode. On my system, the difference is huge. I wonder if this reviewer forgot to do that because imho it would greatly affect the musical experience.
-
The review says "If you are planning a computer-based high end stereo and can live with having nothing but computers to stream music, you owe yourself a listen. It gives you fatigue-free listening experience rarely achieved by any products regardless of price. If you hear the clarity of its highs and liquidity of its midrange, it's really hard for you to go back. For me the Tranquility is a definitely keeper and a match made in heaven for my new Mac Mini."
That's a pretty strong endorsement.
Wilson
-
It is indeed a strong endorsement and very similar to the endorsement John Darko made in his review. Having had the SE for a while I also concur with it. I also concur that, having done some comparisons, some more expensive DAC's do best it in some areas eg the uber expensive DCS has better detail and speed, also some basically hand made DAC's I know have an edge as well. But its mercurial analogue like fluidity and liquidity remains unsurpassed and makes this DAC a joy to listen to - it really is a beguiling DAC. The DCS by all reports has a slight cold edge to it and the hand-built jobs, while having no digital edge, may fall just short in this area although I will need to do some direct comparisons to find out. Andrew who I lent the SE to, and who posted his impressions, said this DAC was a joy to listen to, and it is.
Thanks
Bill
-
I wonder if this reviewer forgot to do that because imho it would greatly affect the musical experience.
It's a pretty strong endorsement anyway I think.
-
Little bump, been a few days, hope everyone had a nice holiday. I'm 95% sure I'm going to upgrade to the SE, and have had some good advice through a couple PM's, just looking for some more opinions and comparisons from those that have heard both the original and SE version. Inner/low level detail, background noise, imaging, and tone mostly.
Thanks, hopefully I'll be up and running in a couple weeks...
-
Just slightly off-topic, but related to dbaudiolabs and the Tranquility: I just had a chance to finish a setup using The Essential Signature version of dbaudiolabs USB cable. As with all cables, very system dependent but in right system/configuration it is quite remarkable imho. Removed the veiling and revealed a deeply three dimensional listening space. My ears enter the music, listen deeply into the music, whereas before it was something to be listened to. I hope this makes sense. My point: give the Signature version of The Essential USB cable a try. No affiliation with dbaudiolabs, just a happy customer! In a slightly related context, I've begun experiments with Pure Music as the player on my Minis instead of iTunes. So far I'm liking Memory Mode and Less is More mode. The combination seems to work well for me with the Tranquility and The Essential cable. But I haven't done a serious A-B listening test over a variety of music genres and recordings as yet.
-
As I read the review, I think one of the things the reviewer left out is Eric's advice to run the 2010 Mac mini in 64 rather that 32 mode. On my system, the difference is huge. I wonder if this reviewer forgot to do that because imho it would greatly affect the musical experience.
I wonder how you would boot 64-bit mode on a head-less 2009 Mini Mac. I've not tried it, but I 've been told that you can hold down the 6 and 4 keys, shut down the Mini, then continue to hold (6 and 4) the keys while you reboot. But my Mini opperates head-less, with no keyboard attached. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
-
I wonder how you would boot 64-bit mode on a head-less 2009 Mini Mac. I've not tried it, but I 've been told that you can hold down the 6 and 4 keys, shut down the Mini, then continue to hold (6 and 4) the keys while you reboot. But my Mini opperates head-less, with no keyboard attached. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
You can download an app which switches the OS to 64-bit mode. You'll never have to switch it again once enabled. There's a few apps, but you can use something like K64 Enabler: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/32300/k64enabler (http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/32300/k64enabler)
-
... thanks for the quick response!
But I looked at the developers website. There's a link to an Apple Support document that claims that anything prior to the mid-2010 Mini Mac can not support 64-bit mode. I'm reluctant to try this... :cry:
-
Anyone with thoughts on the SE vs. Base? Any areas where the base is better at all or the SE is better in every way..
-
In regard to other computer solutions, we are ALWAYS looking for computers to suggest beyond the Mac Mini. Just tonight I had corresponded with a friend who may be able to get an interesting Linux USB transport to try and evaluate. It's all about attempting to identify the best computer front end offerings. Everything supported by the entire Tranquility net of owners and our own research combined.
Cheers to all :green: :green: :green:
Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs
website - www.dbaudiolabs.com
Hello Eric,
Has there been any movement with regard to testing the Linux solutions and/or any comparisons to the Mac Mini?
Best Regards,
Ed
-
Has there been any movement with regard to testing the Linux solutions and/or any comparisons to the Mac Mini?
I think you are referring to the Auraliti. I got one late last year and some quick initial comparisons that I was not at were done. The interest was how it fared against a heavily modded Marantz as a transport because thats what the guys were itching to check out at the time and because of that the Tranquility was not in the mix. Interestingly it was felt the transport was better. But one person there who had heard the Tranquility a lot with a Mac Mini felt the Auriaiti may have the edge - but at this stage until a formal comparison is done nothing definite can be said. Out here in Australia we are in the middle of cricket season and what is known as the Ashes which is quite a big thing. The last Cricket Test finishes at the end of this week and hopefully within a few weeks of that a formal comparison between the Auraliti and a Mac Mini can probably be done.
Thanks
Bill
-
Anyone with thoughts on the SE vs. Base? Any areas where the base is better at all or the SE is better in every way..
I thought the SE was better in just about every area, but the thing that stood out to me was the bass - it was tighter and better defined.
Thanks
Bill
-
I think you are referring to the Auraliti. I got one late last year and some quick initial comparisons that I was not at were done. The interest was how it fared against a heavily modded Maratz as a transport because thats what the guys were itching to check out at the time and because of that the Tranquility was not in the mix. Interestingly it was felt the transport was better. But one person there who had heard the Tranquility a lot with a Mac Mini felt the Auriaiti may have the edge - but at this stage until a formal comparison is done nothing definite can be said. Out here in Australia we are in the middle of cricket season and what is known as the Ashes which is quite a big thing. The last test finishes at the end of this week and hopefully within a few weeks of that a formal comparison between the Auraliti and a Mac Mini can probably be done.
Thanks
Bill
Ed may be referring to USB specific transports such as the Alix Voyage MPD with no locally connected drives. The Auraliti LK100 is primarily an S/PDIF player vs Mac Mini which is USB or FireWire, so that's a bit of apples and oranges. The upcoming Auraliti USB optimized version will be interesting to see what they've come up with. Hopefully they're showing it at CES and some comparisons against the Mac Mini with various high end software players will follow.
-
Thanks Tom/Bill,
Actually I am referring to the Alix solution that Tom mentions. I thought that was the Linux solution that Eric referenced in his post, I may be incorrect in that assumption.
Best,
Ed
-
Any help appreciated...
I just received a base Tranquility. It's replacing Halide Bridge / Cambridge Audio 840C dac source.
What I like about the Tranquility: it's incredibly smooth, liquid mid-range and sometimes (mostly) sweet, clear highs
What I miss a little: Detail. I could hear subtle details like light symbols and brush strokes with the Bridge/840C and I'm kind of missing that with the Tranquility. And I think the base was more defined with the Bridge/Cambridge.
Bottom line: I prefer the Tranquility, the fatigue free listening and lack of glare, over the Bridge/840C
Question to SE owners: IF I UPGRADE to the SE, will I experience more detail, more defined base,... what?
Thanks in advance!!!
-
Question to SE owners: IF I UPGRADE to the SE, will I experience more detail, more defined base,... what?
That's exactly what you'll get with the SE. It's a substantial improvement in detail without adding any glare or brightness. Bass is the biggest area of the frequency spectrum effected, but there are improvements all around. I don't know how the detail compares to what you've experience with your other units, but you'll just have to try it out to know for sure.
~Ben
-
Having compared the Tranquility SE to the W4S DAC-2 and Squeezebox Touch, the Tranquility SE has all the fantastic detail like the W4S DAC-2, but with a more organic and neutral overall presentation. I haven't heard the original Tranquility, but from what I have heard from Eric and on other posts, the SE version does indeed carry over more detail than the regular version and is also more refined because of the new output stage.
From my listening, the Tranquility SE lets all the detail shine through that the source track has to offer, and while having all the great detail, it still maintains a nice smooth, neutral presentation. Strikes a perfect balance of high detail with a smooth presentation in my system. I think it is worth it to give the SE a try.
-
SE version? I have the original Tranquility and this is the first I have heard of the SE. I went to the dB labs website and there is not mention of it. I normally get emails updates from Eric but don't remember anything about an SE version. So, how do I get this or how do I order it? Do we send it in to get it updated? Thanks.
Okay, I also see it is recommended to use the Mac Mini(700.00 from Apple) with the Tranquility. I currently am using a Mac Book Pro. I am also using the USB from Db labs. I put the Mac book pro on the floor connected to the Tranquility and into the preamp from there. I have a remote ap. for my iphone so once I sit in my listening chair, I don't have to get up. I can just choose whatever I want from my lossless Itunes library from my listening chair. My question is would I be able to use my remote control app. with the Mini Mac?
-
SE version? I have the original Tranquility and this is the first I have heard of the SE. I went to the dB labs website and there is not mention of it. I normally get emails updates from Eric but don't remember anything about an SE version. So, how do I get this or how do I order it? Do we send it in to get it updated? Thanks.
The SE version has been out for awhile. It is not on the dB Audio Labs Web site yet, I am assuming like most smaller audio companies, the Web site takes last priority.
You can order one from Eric by phoning in and he'll tell you all about the differences and everything can be worked out via a call phone. Eric is a great guy and he'll let you know what your options are as an existing customer. Since the SE version is quite a bit different than the current one, you cannot get the actual unit "upgraded" and would have to get an entire new unit.
-
Another brand-new review of the Tranquility SE.... and a rather interesting comparison with the Weiss 202!
http://digital-analog.blogspot.com/2010/12/review-db-audio-labs-tranquility-dac.html
A smashing review from Seta. I agree that the Tranquility SE is a superb DAC and am not at all surprised that it sounds superior [in the midrange] to the Bel Canto DAC 2.5.
IMHO, The "humanity" of the Tranquility SE is unsurpassed (as yet) for the money.
-
SE version? I have the original Tranquility and this is the first I have heard of the SE. I went to the dB labs website and there is not mention of it. I normally get emails updates from Eric but don't remember anything about an SE version. So, how do I get this or how do I order it? Do we send it in to get it updated? Okay, I also see it is recommended to use the Mac Mini(700.00 from Apple) with the Tranquility. I currently am using a Mac Book Pro. I am also using the USB from Db labs. I put the Mac book pro on the floor connected to the Tranquility and into the preamp from there. I have a remote ap. for my iphone so once I sit in my listening chair, I don't have to get up. I can just choose whatever I want from my lossless Itunes library from my listening chair. My question is would I be able to use my remote control app. with the Mini Mac?
Ok about the SE check out:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.msg845242#msg845242
I presume your remote app is the standard Apple one? If so you should have no problems.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks Bill. Yeah, I finally took some time today to read more from this thread and it yes the Apple Iphone remote app. will work fine with the Mac Mini. I am going to pick one up in the next couple of days.
-
Happy new year, everyone!
Given that this thread exists with the Critic's Circle, can we please keep this thread focused on AC member comments reviewing the dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC?
If you have questions about operation, models, pricing, etc., please direct them to Eric's dB Audio Labs Tranquility - technical musings and computer discussions (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89127.0) thread.
There is a lot of very useful content in this thread, but the signal to noise ratio is diminishing, and at 43 pages long and growing, neither TCG nor I have the time to go through and prune it to down to an actual review thread. (And realistically, any sense of continuity would be destroyed at that point.)
This is the last shot.... if we can't keep this thread more focused, we'll need to lock it.
Thanks for your understanding!
-
After a long time lurking on this thread, I’m going to come forward with my first time chirping in regards to my experience with the Tranquility (non-SE) in comparison with the Bryston BDA-1 DAC and to perhaps nudge the thread back on track. This is my first review, and although I think I’ve picked up a fair bit of knowledge through skimming through the past 800+ posts, which had lured me to acquire the Tranquility in the first place, I do welcome comments and questions. So here goes:
My initial set up was from a mid range Acer laptop running Windows 7 and Foobar 2000 to the BDA-1 via USB. The sound was fairly decent with good tonality and detail and pace. Soundstage depth could have been a bit better but the greatest weakness was a glare and harshness in the midrange and treble that caused listener fatigue, especially at higher volume levels and overall, the sound was more “digital” than I would have liked. Reviews on the BDA-1 (as well as Bryston’s own admission) were that the USB implementation was not up to the same level sonically as their coaxial inputs. Since my plan was to go exclusively to a computer server, I looked into the many USB DACs and options out there. The quest led me to acquire the M2 Tech HiFace USB to SPDIF converter (which many have deemed a must-try because it costs a fraction of most audiophile cables) and the Tranquility DAC along with a Ridge Street Audio Enopias and DB Audio Essential USB cables along with a Power Mac G5 through my local craigslist.
So here are my observations of the Tranquility as compared to the BDA-1.
The number one observation I found in a direct comparison between the two DACs was that the Tranquility is far more dependent on associated gear than the Bryston. All the positive changes I made to the system improved the sound of both DACs but it was more magnified with the Tranquility in all regards.
Starting with the Windows 7/Foobar setup with a generic USB cable, the sound through the BDA-1 was crisp, with good detail, but lacked fluidity. Compared to the BDA-1, the Tranquility sounded a bit smoother and relaxed but lacked some life and jump. The Bryston was more forward and exhibited a bit more detail. At this point, I would give the slight edge to the BDA-1. I’ll make a quick footnote to mention I also tried using the M2Tech Hiface to output an SPDIF signal to the Bryston, with both regular 16/44.1 and hi rez files, and overall, my reaction was mixed. There was more perceived detail and definition to the sound, but it didn’t do much to clean up that digital haze that was ultimately corrupting the sound, and overall wasn't much more musical. I could seldom listen for more than 30 minutes before listener fatigue set in. The HiFace Evo may fare better but I haven't tried it.
Replacing the stock USB cable with the Essential and Enopias USB cables did quite noticeably tamed some of harsh edge in the music by cleaning up a lot of the intruding digital noise, especially in the mid to highs, which made live jazz and classical much more listenable. Both the audio grade USB cables improved dynamics, and the overall ease of the presentation. The bass had more definition and presence, but the Enopias went that bit further to open up the soundstage a tad more, especially in depth, but keep in mind this is RSA’s best USB cable line at triple the cost of the Essential. Both USB cables improved the BDA-1 and the Tranquility but the results were greater with the latter, which seemed to really benefit from the higher grade cables. If I were to quantify the improvement from a rating of 1 to 5 (with 5 being the best), I would rank the USB cables 5,4 and 1 for the Enopias, Essential and stock for the Tranquility and 4,3 and 1 for the BDA-1 respectively. With the Enopias and Essential cables in the mix, using a Windows 7 based music server, the Tranquility was undoubtedly more "analog" sounding and exhibited instruments with better harmonics and decay, but the Bryston was more resolving. But as everyone here knows, few Tranquility owners use a Windows server, so how much does moving to a Mac improve the performance of the DACs?
Well, in short, the difference was significant, especially for the Tranquility, which simply confirms what everyone already knows. The sound was clean, crisp, dynamic, detailed but smooth and non fatiguing. The soundstage exploded in all dimensions and the imaging became more holographic. Compared to the Bryston, the Mac driven Tranquility pretty much clobbered it across the board. The Mac did improve the sound of the BDA-1, but not as significantly. It was cleaner and a bit more organic, but was now a lot more "digital" compared to the Tranquility. Listening to a Vinyl hi-rez rip of Jazz at the Pawnshop even down sampled to 16/44 on the Tranquility was remarkable and quite clearly the best I've ever heard from "CD quality". With the Mac, the Tranquility is clearly in a different league than the BDA-1, but I will qualify this observation by stating that I believe that the USB input is inferior to the other inputs in the BDA-1 and optimized for performance on the Tranquility. I had sold the HiFace before I acquired the G5 so could not have used it to provide a SPDIF output to the BDA-1. I would speculate that using a good Firewire or USB to SPDIF converter or soundcard would yield a better result for the Bryston but will obviously up the cost. The clincher for me was that I managed to get SIGNIFICANTLY better sound from my existing computer based system for less money than BDA-1 . That's called having your cake and eating it. To try and squeeze the best performance from the Bryston would be require substantially more cash outlay. However, in the interest of fair and balanced reporting, the BDA-1 does offer significantly more functionality like the ability to play up to 24/192 files without downsampling, and also having balanced outputs and multiple digital inputs which may be important for other users.
The final note is that I wanted to mention that picking up an old, dated, slightly beat up but easy to upgrade Mac G5 off of craigslist an absolute steal at current market prices and could be the best transport for around $400 that you can buy period . Now most of you guys out there probably have Mac Minis and I do acknowledge the general consensus is that the Mac Mini is the best match for the Tranquility. I have not tried the Mini, either the 2010 Mini or the previous version, but I am inclined to believe that the G5 is better than a stock previous gen Mini due to the better power supply and that older Minis tended to be lacking in the RAM and hard drive that comes standard. There is a pretty long and detailed thread over at Computer Audiophile that compares the two Macs in detail so I will not go into it further here. Suffice to say that I found the G5 an excellent and versatile computer transport and an incredible value. As some of you may know, replacing the memory and hard drive on the older Mini is a rather difficult task and not recommended to be undertaken by average user. Upgrading the G5 is infinitely easier and simply involves popping open the case and plugging in some more memory or a shiny new hard drive or solid state drive. After exchanging emails with Eric, I think I may eventually be swayed by the much better power supply built in to the 2010 Mini (but is currently far more expensive than a used G5). In the meantime, I think the G5 makes a wonderful cheaper alternative if you can live with its inherent shortcomings which is a large and bulky chassis and some noticeable fan noise.
Conclusion:
The Db Audio Labs Tranquility is a remarkably musical and "analog" sounding DAC and a tremendous value. It does require careful matching to sound it's best, which includes an upgraded USB cable and most importantly, a Mac transport, which is of course no surprise whatsoever. The Bryston BDA-1 is an excellent performer and may be a better choice for an audiophile using a CD transport or making the additional investment to add a high quality soundcard with a 24/192 SPDIF output.
Happy listening,
Phil
Review system:
Acer Laptop running Windows 7 and Foobar 2000
Power Mac G5 (DP 2.0 Ghz, 6GB RAM) running PureMusic, 60 GB OCZ Vertex 2 SSD
Tranquilty DAC
Bryston BDA-1 DAC
M2 Tech Hiface USB to SPDIF converter
Brinkmann Integrated amp
Manger Zerobox 109 monitors
Cables include: Crystal Cable Micro speaker cables, Ridge Street Enopias and Db Audio Essential USB cables, Stealth Indra Rev 08 interconnects, Crystal Cable Reference and Standard and Audience Powerchord power cords.
-
Hey Phil,
that was a great write-up, thanks for sharing. I was always curious to thoughts on the Bryston DAC.
You nailed it as well, ANY changes to the source will change the sound coming out of the Tranquility. This is what I actually love about the Tranquility, because you actually see results when you upgrade a component for more money. You see where your money is going and the value it is adding to the system.
Glad you found a solution that works for you. :thumb:
-
Very nice review ... thanks
-
This is what I actually love about the Tranquility, because you actually see results when you upgrade a component for more money. You see where your money is going and the value it is adding to the system.
There's a difficult flip-side to this issue. While you do see results, this opens up a pandora's box of "solutions" looking for a problem. In other words, what if you're very happy with the sound of the Tranquility with stock power cords on your Mac Mini, stock hard drive, etc? It seems every week there's a new tweak begging for you to part with more of your hard-earned cash. Audiophilia is a challenging enough disease to kick without products that come along and add to the temptation.
Realize, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I agree it's a stellar DAC, and I'm very happy with mine. I also agree that because of its quality it tends to maximize the impact of investments upstream from the DAC, as well as downstream. However, there are those who have balked at the prospect of buying it because it purchase of a Mac Mini is so highly recommended alongside it. But it wouldn't have to stop there, and it hasn't. Now there are Mach2 mods, power cords and Mac Sandwiches, more and more expensive USB cables. I'm sure a boutique audiophile manufacturer is working on their own external hard drive made especially for the Mac Mini right now.
As a happy listener with my Tranquility SE and stock 2010 Mac Mini with firewire external hardrive, I'm just struggling with keeping my money in the bank right now and resisting upgraditis and tweakalingus. :duh:
I agree, though. Very nice review.
~Ben
-
Phil,
First of all, welcome to AC and what a terrific first post!
This was a very nicely done review and thanks for being so thorough and capturing your thoughts and insights as you went through the process. It sounds like you're on your way to great sounding USB solution :thumb: As many have said there is probably even more room in terms of power cords, mac upgrades, etc.
I've been using the BDA-1 for awhile and many of your findings are very consistent with my own, including the HiFace option for USB. As you so clearly stated, some users may have different needs in terms of the trade-offs, such as multiple inputs, etc. I became rather hooked on that particular feature for my own system, so took a little different path, given the BDA-1's USB is rather mediocre in stock form. I also tried the stock HiFace with both a Macbook/Pure Music and W7 with mixed results. I had much better results (smoother, less dryness to sound, vanishing harshness in details) using an Audiphilleo 1 USB->S/PDIF converter into one of the BNC inputs of the BDA-1, along with a very low cost ($130) Alix Linux appliance for USB source. It also supports native hi-rez to 24/192 with no supplemental application needed to switch sample rates. This DAC combo by itself is more expensive, in the range of $2650-$3150 retail, plus a file server/NAS, but I think it allows the BDA-1 to perform much better than stock USB or HiFace (including 16/44.1 redbook), while retaining the rich functionality it has. In my case, not having the Mac in play made the overall front end cost lower as my total Linux USB and server/drives investment is under $500 total, so turnkey about $3200 retail.
This is a Tranquility review, but I want to make sure BDA-1 owners as well as those considering it as an option, know there are other options sonically, if that is also a feature set they want to retain, including Bryston's own Linux based BDP-1. As a bonus, you get hi-rez support if it's important for you (it was for me), as well is IR volume control/track control integration with the Bryston remote functions. Not needed for everyone but the trade-offs work well for my own needs.
Tom
-
There's a difficult flip-side to this issue. While you do see results, this opens up a pandora's box of "solutions" looking for a problem. In other words, what if you're very happy with the sound of the Tranquility with stock power cords on your Mac Mini, stock hard drive, etc? It seems every week there's a new tweak begging for you to part with more of your hard-earned cash. Audiophilia is a challenging enough disease to kick without products that come along and add to the temptation.
Realize, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I agree it's a stellar DAC, and I'm very happy with mine. I also agree that because of its quality it tends to maximize the impact of investments upstream from the DAC, as well as downstream. However, there are those who have balked at the prospect of buying it because it purchase of a Mac Mini is so highly recommended alongside it. But it wouldn't have to stop there, and it hasn't. Now there are Mach2 mods, power cords and Mac Sandwiches, more and more expensive USB cables. I'm sure a boutique audiophile manufacturer is working on their own external hard drive made especially for the Mac Mini right now.
As a happy listener with my Tranquility SE and stock 2010 Mac Mini with firewire external hardrive, I'm just struggling with keeping my money in the bank right now and resisting upgraditis and tweakalingus. :duh:
I agree, though. Very nice review.
~Ben
Tweakalingus - that is just awesome! If you don't mind I'm going to co-opt that one :lol:
Satisfaction is a hard to come by quantity in high end audio. If you are happy with the sound "as-is" then by all means save your money and spend it on software to enjoy. There are those of us that, while satisfied, are fascinated with the challenge of just how much more performance can be squeezed from an already stellar product. We are audioholics after all. :thumb:
Dave
-
Yeah, feel free to use it, Dave. And I didn't mean my comments as criticism of you or others. I have interest in your and their products, and I have no doubt they help. It's just that eternal question for me of where does it all end...? I just thought it worth bringing that tension out into light a bit, that the revealing nature of the Tranquility can cut both ways. Of course, none of us would be into this hobby if we didn't give in to tweakalingus on a somewhat regular basis. I'm just trying to contain some of the damaging side-effects.
-
Yeah, feel free to use it, Dave. And I didn't mean my comments as criticism of you or others. I have interest in your and their products, and I have no doubt they help. It's just that eternal question for me of where does it all end...? I just thought it worth bringing that tension out into light a bit, that the revealing nature of the Tranquility can cut both ways. Of course, none of us would be into this hobby if we didn't give in to tweakalingus on a somewhat regular basis. I'm just trying to contain some of the damaging side-effects.
Certainly no offense taken. There are times when I wish I could stop the madness, but I'm too old and set in my ways.
Where does it all stop? It doesn't. As long as there is audio gear there will be people like me that just have to tweak "a little more" from whatever 'it' is. Hot rodders are like that 8)
Dave
-
Phil,
First of all, welcome to AC and what a terrific first post!
This was a very nicely done review and thanks for being so thorough and capturing your thoughts and insights as you went through the process. It sounds like you're on your way to great sounding USB solution :thumb: As many have said there is probably even more room in terms of power cords, mac upgrades, etc.
I've been using the BDA-1 for awhile and many of your findings are very consistent with my own, including the HiFace option for USB. As you so clearly stated, some users may have different needs in terms of the trade-offs, such as multiple inputs, etc. I became rather hooked on that particular feature for my own system, so took a little different path, given the BDA-1's USB is rather mediocre in stock form. I also tried the stock HiFace with both a Macbook/Pure Music and W7 with mixed results. I had much better results (smoother, less dryness to sound, vanishing harshness in details) using an Audiphilleo 1 USB->S/PDIF converter into one of the BNC inputs of the BDA-1, along with a very low cost ($130) Alix Linux appliance for USB source. It also supports native hi-rez to 24/192 with no supplemental application needed to switch sample rates. This DAC combo by itself is more expensive, in the range of $2650-$3150 retail, plus a file server/NAS, but I think it allows the BDA-1 to perform much better than stock USB or HiFace (including 16/44.1 redbook), while retaining the rich functionality it has. In my case, not having the Mac in play made the overall front end cost lower as my total Linux USB and server/drives investment is under $500 total, so turnkey about $3200 retail.
This is a Tranquility review, but I want to make sure BDA-1 owners as well as those considering it as an option, know there are other options sonically, if that is also a feature set they want to retain, including Bryston's own Linux based BDP-1. As a bonus, you get hi-rez support if it's important for you (it was for me), as well is IR volume control/track control integration with the Bryston remote functions. Not needed for everyone but the trade-offs work well for my own needs.
Tom
Thanks everyone for your comments and it's good to join the gang.
Tom, thanks for posting your thoughts on the BDA-1. I did evaluate the various options to improve the sound quality from the Bryston, including the Audiophilleo and even the Weiss INT 202 and even the ART Legato. All these options, as you mentioned is going to cost more $$$ and the decision to go in this direction is really dependent on how much one wants to spend on the front end digital and how good the rest of your system is. 24/192 is better than 16/44.1 but only if it is done right and the original recording is exceptional and even then, most listeners find the difference fairly subtle. My dog really likes 192khz but I don't think I can hear beyond 20khz. :lol:
Personally, I find most of the music I like is available in regular 16/44.1 and my philosophy in building a system is to make it as simple as possible, but not simpler (to steal a quote from Einstein). During the current rise of computer audio, many of these "transitional" gizmos like USB to SPDIF converters are good tools, but I ultimately feel that they are a relatively poor long term investment as I imagine most if not all new DACs in 5 years will include a USB input. Passing a signal through a secondary device and a second digital cable to get a purer digital signal sounds counterintuitive to me. As long as the USB implementation is done right, I think computer to DAC would be the way to go.
As far as bang for buck goes, a Mac G5/Mini -> USB cable -> Tranquility is pretty hard to beat and for me, even with the down conversion still sound pretty good.
I agree the there is always the urge to keep upgrading, and Eric is now seriously tempting me to try the SE and offering me a deal that's pretty hard to refuse. I want to say that Eric's level of commitment to customer service is absolutely top notch. I would also like to point out that I didn't even buy the Tranquility directly from Db Audio but had bought it second hand from the first buyer who had to sell for personal reasons and he is still providing the same support and option to upgrade as if I had bought directly. There are some buzz out there about how good some of the $1K DACs from Asia (eg. Audio-gd etc.) are, and while I haven't heard one to make a comment on the sound quality, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be getting this level of customer support on a $1K DAC.
-
Tom, when I decided to go down the road to a digital audio server, I had no clue as to what I was getting myself into. Now, 8 months later I'm really glad that I did.
I tried to wrap my head around all of the formats available to the budding digiphile from MP3 (YEECCCCHHHHHH! :nono:) to the hirez stuff up to and including 24/384. All that I could remember were the format wars from a few years ago, and I looked at my collection of Redbook CD's and thought of the hundreds of thousands titles out there in that format and decided that I could make a native 16/44.1 format work for me. I knew from my studio experience that VHQ audio is possible in Redbook. My journey has been a circuitous one, and I'm very glad that I found the Tranquility/Mac combination.
I would wholeheartedly recommend the SE over the base Tranquility. It is better at just about every aspect of reproduction and I am personally in bliss with the Mach2 Mini and the SE. The thing that kills me is just how much data there is on discs that I have never been able to extract before. My old CD player was a Cary 306 with 8 parallel ADDACs and a killer output stage. Upsampled and dithered it just never did what my current set-up is capable of and I'm not done tweaking. The Mac/SE just kills the old setup.
You will never find a better man in audio than Eric. We started out as business acquaintances and have become very good friends over the last year. He is one of the few people that I truly trust in this audio biz. Oddly enough the other ones are also AC members: this place is a great place to be. Welcome.
:thumb:
Dave
-
I owe Eric a few minutes of time, as I have been saying for a while I would put down a few words in review regarding Tranquility and dB Audio Labs' USB cables.
In short background, I got on board early on with the initial promotion pricing for the Tranquility DAC, added a Essential USB cable, then recently sent both back to upgrade to the SE version of the DAC and cable.
I could write a bit about this gear and how it sounds with my system, but much of that is very well covered already in this huge thread. As a brief aside, other than the savings/value with the introductory offer, the reason in the end I decided to take the plunge on this DAC is because of the information I found in this thread. I know it has strayed quite a bit from the traditional path of the standard review threads here on AC, but honestly it has done so, in my opinion, in a manner that is very arguably much more helpful, productive, and comprehensive way than the traditional "standard" of review information in the scope of Internet communities in general. I think it would be a great disservice to see it either locked or ended due to what has become its unique nature. Short story long, just as it is, it gave me the information I needed to make a well informed buying decision - the fundamental purpose for a "review" if ever I could think of one.
That said, the note I wanted to add has less to do with the nuts and bolts of the equipment itself, but rather I wanted to say a few words about Eric and the way dB Audio Labs does business. It is both unique and refreshing to me - a statement made crossing various industries with which I do or have done business.
First off, in my early exchanges with Eric, I thought I had enough information to make a purchase based on what I read and the email exchange I had with him. The funny thing is, he basically all but politely refused to sell me something without actually talking to me on the telephone first. To say the least, I was a little surprised and taken back by this, considering the direction online business has gone these days (actually, at first, I was a little annoyed, to be completely honest).
From that phone call on, however, I was very glad to have spoken to Eric and can say nothing but good things about the way dB Audio Labs does business. It really shows in that the goal of this company isn't to sell a piece of equipment. The goal, rather, is to provide a complete "solution" to a client. The goal is to see through to delivering on a promise to improve the sound and enjoyment a client gets from their stereo. From technical details, to design philosophies, to specific advice regarding getting the whole thing (a client's system) running its best - and not just inclusive of the company's "recommended" configurations - db Audio Labs is about getting the most one can out of their music system, and if (how) what they have to offer can help deliver on that goal.
I was excited when I got my first Tranquility DAC. That unit was a little sick when it arrived (output voltage was off between L/R channels, I think?). Eric was quick to get the problem resolved, and I was very happy with what I had. A little while later, Eric called me out of the blue to ask me how everything was going and we spent an hour or two talking about different things - the purpose of his follow up call to identify any opportunities there were to suggest adjustments to my existing system/equipment to make sure I was getting everything I could out of the DAC. All was well.
Later still, Eric was confident that his USB cable would make things noticeably better, and offered a free demo to prove it - a "free demo", as in "I'll ship you one of these cables without so much as taking down your credit card number as collateral to give it a shot, and if it doesn't do anything for your system or you don't like it, just send it back". For various reasons, I didn't get a chance to get the cable pulled out of the box and hooked up for quite a while (a few months, if I'm remembering correctly). I called Eric back finally to actually PAY for the cable he sent me (note I had still not hooked it up yet). Eric tried to insist that he not get paid for it until I tried it - now even months after the "demo" period should have been over, but I won this exchange and got him to take my money.
I read the buzz from RMAF regarding the SE version of the DAC and cable, saved my pennies, and a month or so later called Eric to ask about the upgrade offer he made available following the show. I called Eric out on the phone that when he sold me the original Tranquility, he said he was selling me the last DAC I would ever need to buy. He started to joke a bit about the audio industry, how things can always be made better, upgradeitis, and so on. . . I stopped him there and put it another way. I had bought some gear from him, and now he was giving me the full value I paid for that gear back to me to invest in new gear he believes is better for my system than the gear I had. How many other places in the audio industry offer an opportunity to their clients to improve their systems as products get better without facing the prospect of having to resell their old products - at best in most cases breaking even financially - with zero potential of losing money on their original purchase? In short, although the physical parts that make up the gear I bought from Eric may not have been the last I would ever have, not a single dollar I have invested in dB Audio Labs has gone to waste, something I can't say about the majority of money I've invested in other pursuits in this hobby.
Thanks to all for their time in reading my thoughts, and Eric at dB Audio Labs for demonstrating one "right way" of doing business.
-
I owe Eric a few minutes of time, as I have been saying for a while I would put down a few words in review regarding Tranquility and dB Audio Labs' USB cables.
In short background, I got on board early on with the initial promotion pricing for the Tranquility DAC, added a Essential USB cable, then recently sent both back to upgrade to the SE version of the DAC and cable.
I could write a bit about this gear and how it sounds with my system, but much of that is very well covered already in this huge thread. As a brief aside, other than the savings/value with the introductory offer, the reason in the end I decided to take the plunge on this DAC is because of the information I found in this thread. I know it has strayed quite a bit from the traditional path of the standard review threads here on AC, but honestly it has done so, in my opinion, in a manner that is very arguably much more helpful, productive, and comprehensive way than the traditional "standard" of review information in the scope of Internet communities in general. I think it would be a great disservice to see it either locked or ended due to what has become its unique nature. Short story long, just as it is, it gave me the information I needed to make a well informed buying decision - the fundamental purpose for a "review" if ever I could think of one.
That said, the note I wanted to add has less to do with the nuts and bolts of the equipment itself, but rather I wanted to say a few words about Eric and the way dB Audio Labs does business. It is both unique and refreshing to me - a statement made crossing various industries with which I do or have done business.
First off, in my early exchanges with Eric, I thought I had enough information to make a purchase based on what I read and the email exchange I had with him. The funny thing is, he basically all but politely refused to sell me something without actually talking to me on the telephone first. To say the least, I was a little surprised and taken back by this, considering the direction online business has gone these days (actually, at first, I was a little annoyed, to be completely honest).
From that phone call on, however, I was very glad to have spoken to Eric and can say nothing but good things about the way dB Audio Labs does business. It really shows in that the goal of this company isn't to sell a piece of equipment. The goal, rather, is to provide a complete "solution" to a client. The goal is to see through to delivering on a promise to improve the sound and enjoyment a client gets from their stereo. From technical details, to design philosophies, to specific advice regarding getting the whole thing (a client's system) running its best - and not just inclusive of the company's "recommended" configurations - db Audio Labs is about getting the most one can out of their music system, and if (how) what they have to offer can help deliver on that goal.
I was excited when I got my first Tranquility DAC. That unit was a little sick when it arrived (output voltage was off between L/R channels, I think?). Eric was quick to get the problem resolved, and I was very happy with what I had. A little while later, Eric called me out of the blue to ask me how everything was going and we spent an hour or two talking about different things - the purpose of his follow up call to identify any opportunities there were to suggest adjustments to my existing system/equipment to make sure I was getting everything I could out of the DAC. All was well.
Later still, Eric was confident that his USB cable would make things noticeably better, and offered a free demo to prove it - a "free demo", as in "I'll ship you one of these cables without so much as taking down your credit card number as collateral to give it a shot, and if it doesn't do anything for your system or you don't like it, just send it back". For various reasons, I didn't get a chance to get the cable pulled out of the box and hooked up for quite a while (a few months, if I'm remembering correctly). I called Eric back finally to actually PAY for the cable he sent me (note I had still not hooked it up yet). Eric tried to insist that he not get paid for it until I tried it - now even months after the "demo" period should have been over, but I won this exchange and got him to take my money.
I read the buzz from RMAF regarding the SE version of the DAC and cable, saved my pennies, and a month or so later called Eric to ask about the upgrade offer he made available following the show. I called Eric out on the phone that when he sold me the original Tranquility, he said he was selling me the last DAC I would ever need to buy. He started to joke a bit about the audio industry, how things can always be made better, upgradeitis, and so on. . . I stopped him there and put it another way. I had bought some gear from him, and now he was giving me the full value I paid for that gear back to me to invest in new gear he believes is better for my system than the gear I had. How many other places in the audio industry offer an opportunity to their clients to improve their systems as products get better without facing the prospect of having to resell their old products - at best in most cases breaking even financially - with zero potential of losing money on their original purchase? In short, although the physical parts that make up the gear I bought from Eric may not have been the last I would ever have, not a single dollar I have invested in dB Audio Labs has gone to waste, something I can't say about the majority of money I've invested in other pursuits in this hobby.
Thanks to all for their time in reading my thoughts, and Eric at dB Audio Labs for demonstrating one "right way" of doing business.
And...? What can you say of the SE vs. your original Tranquility?
-
M, a lot of more broadly knowledgeable folks than myself have said even more about these DACs, but for what it is worth, my $.02:
My original Tranquility was very well broken in. The SE, not so much. It is going to take quite a bit of time to get the SE to where my original was, but it is still enjoyable in the meantime. The SE acts a lot like the original during break in - lean in the bass, the midrange has yet to fill out, but the details in the highs are already "there".
Honestly, right now, there is very little difference in how the SE acts in my system compared to the original. Note, however, that I have not done any adjustments to my speaker placement (per Eric's suggestion going up to the SE). The difference for my system, again I stress right now, is very subtle, but I can see the potential that is there to be had.
My other big(ger) problem, I think, is that I have pretty much pushed the speakers I have to the best of their capabilities in my setup with the amplification I have on tap. Right now, I'm running a pair of hybrid planar speakers with an admittedly low powered (for planars) digital amp. I'm actually in the process of putting together a pair of higher efficiency speakers more capable of taking advantage of what the SE has to offer, in particular when I can offload the bass amplification from my amp and gain efficiency/headroom enough to be able to shine a better light on the little things that start to set the SE apart from the original Tranquility.
Short answer: right now, the SE is solid and has potential, but I've got a lot of things that need to change to take advantage of that potential. I purchased the SE both on Eric's insight as to what was improved with the SE design, and knowing that I was investing in a component I would be growing in to.
Cheers!
EDIT: I forgot to add, I want to ditto most of that in regards to going to the SE cable. I've got a ton of things going on in the system right now that are changing before I could even begin to give an intelligent opinion on what just the SE cable alone is doing to improve things. Again, this was a purchase made to both take advantage of the generous trade-up offer and to grow in to. The "final frontier" so to speak for me with this system is going to be playing around with cables to very (very) finely tune the "final" result. . . and that's a long time off from now. (major equipment needed to finish changing up first, then to finally get to dialing in the room, THEN on to cables)
-
I have not done any adjustments to my speaker placement (per Eric's suggestion going up to the SE).
Cheers!
Hi Jonathon,
Do you mind telling us what suggestion that Eric gave you as to speaker placement as this sounds very interesting? Thanks!
-
Hi Jonathon,
Do you mind telling us what suggestion that Eric gave you as to speaker placement as this sounds very interesting? Thanks!
One of the things that happens with pieces of gear that are so revealing of space in recordings is that it will often lead the listener to re-evaluate the location of the speakers because the window into the recording changes. Depth and width of the soundfield are closely related to toe-in and the distance to the wall behind the speakers. Moving things around can help the image specificity sometimes.
It seems that whenever I make a component change, I end up moving the speakers just a little bit to complete the upgrade.
Dave
-
Hi Jonathon,
Do you mind telling us what suggestion that Eric gave you as to speaker placement as this sounds very interesting? Thanks!
Eric suggested that folks going to the SE have been able to spread their speakers farther apart to increase the size of the sound stage, while maintaining the coherence of the centered image, apparently in many cases far enough that when using the original Tranquility the center image would fall apart, and also often enough farther apart than would generally follow with conventional wisdom. Very good news for me, as I normally run a fairly near field arrangement in my room with a wide spread between my speakers.
-
Hi Guys
Previously some friends of mine who I lent my Tranquility Signature to so they could check it out reported they could not hear any difference between the essential USB cable and a standard one. Now personally I had never checked this out because I knew the technical reasons why it should be better. But because of this I promised to get to the bottom of it and Eric supplied me a Signature cable to check out. Well I had a standard Tranquility available but my Signature was on loan so I decided to wait until it came back before doing the test. A friend whose reference system I use said he would check it out once the signature cable arrived but he is really busy right now and didn't get around to it. Well I waited until my signature arrived back, which it did yesterday so I got the cable and hooked it up. Ahhhh - one channel of the signature was distorting - probably as a result of some transport rough handling loosening something and perhaps associated with the horrific floods we have had here in Queensland Australia so it may have had to be stored longer and jostled around more. Anyway I had to rush back to my friend who had the standard Tranquility and drop off the broken one for a technician to have a look at. Of course I have zero doubt Eric will support his product but really in this case it is my issue so I will see if I can get it fixed without bugging him. I will let him know what is going on if he does not already know from reading this. Besides I don't really wan't to be without it while it is shipped to and from the US.
OK. Got back with the standard Tranquility and hooked it up with a standard USB cable and fired up some Dianna Krall I know very well. It simply did not sound right - sibilancy, bass indistinct and not quite as clear as I recall. Whacked in the Signature cable. Sibilance pretty much gone, bass tighter and clearer as well - pretty much as I remember the standard Tranquility to be - perhaps even a smidgen better due to signature cable.
Well this is just one guys (namely me) opinion so to really check this out I will be arranging a get together at my place a bit further down the line so we can look into it a bit more. Also this will provide an opportunity to check out some other stuff such as how an Aurality matches up to a mac mini. Also my system will be undergoing a significant upgrade soon with a pair of Lenehan ML3 Limited Edition speakers with its crossover hand tuned to a Leben 300XR amp. Incredible combination - especially in the midrange. I was listening to it extensively with a friend yesterday before the hand tuning to the Leben is done, which the maker thinks will make a big difference. It sounded simply awesome - me and the other guy were entranced and didn't want to hook up the Macintosh 501's which normally is the amp in that system. It totally blew away a Modwright amp which was full of mosfet mist. I actually thought it was better than the 501's - but that is probably because I am a midrange freak and the Leben has a glorious midrange. That combo should really reveal any differences between stuff.
Thanks
Bill
-
Switching from the standard Essential USB cable to the Signature version on my Tranquility SE dac was a game changer for me.
With the standard Essential USB cable, I found the presentation to be a bit laid back for my tastes. I kept wanting to turn up the volume in order to get the vocals to come forward more. The Essential Signature USB changed all that and provided to my ears a more balanced and dynamic sounding presentation
-
:D so the new improved cable is a must with the Sig dac.you know,my system does sound laid back compared to the old dac as i never went for the new cable.gotta buck-up for that now ..... :D
-
:D so the new improved cable is a must with the Sig dac.you know,my system does sound laid back compared to the old dac as i never went for the new cable.gotta buck-up for that now ..... :D
Yep, the Signature cable is a definite must have. You know the old saw: "there is more there, there."
Dave
-
Yep, the Signature cable is a definite must have. You know the old saw: "there is more there, there."
Hi guys. Just to be 100% sure my post was clear I was comparing a bog standard el cheapo USB cable - not the essential cable - to the signature cable and into a standard Tranquility. As explained my signature Tranquility is on the blink and needs a tech to look at it. This was in response to a post a while back saying they could hear no difference with a bog standard cable compared to the essential cable. Purely from memory I think the signature cable could be a bit better than the essential. I have an essential available and I could check it out compared to the signature but don't really wan't to right now because I will be organizing a get together to check that and other stuff such as the Aurality out. Interestingly out here in Australia, and this does not apply to the Tranquility because it is USB only, when fed with a heavily tweaked Martantz as transport everyone thought the transport was better than the USB into some other DAC's that were on hand, which seems to be opposite to you guys in the states experience. I wan't to get to the bottom of that as well.
Thanks
Bill
-
I have the "Essential Signature" cable and may be looking to part with it; rather than turn this into a sales pitch, pm me if interested.
Randy
-
I purchased the Tranquility DAC SE and Essential cable back in November and wrote some initial impressions at the time. From the moment I plugged it in, well before the the DAC was broken in, I was really impressed with the quality of the sound. As has been described before in this thread, the Tranquility SE has a relaxed but highly detailed sound. Over the last three months the sound has continued to improve. Today, it is the best digital front end that I have ever heard, and not by a small margin.
I ran across this thread on Audio Circle and followed it for a few weeks before I looked into ordering the unit. I made the decision to purchase the Tranquility after a 45 minute call with Eric Hider who took me through the design philosophy of the company and the DAC specifically. Eric could not have been more gracious and helpful throughout the process. I have since had two subsequent calls with him where he took me through all of the tweaks to optimize the sound coming out of the 2008 Mac Mini that I am using as the source.
I have since also purchased the Duo Filter power cord for the older Mini's which made significant further improvement to the sound.
Before I try to describe the sound, let me say that I have not heard many of the DAC's described in this thread, particularly some of the recently released products which have been highly regarded in this and other posts. My experience has been with the Musical Fidelity V-DAC8, the HRT Streamer Pro, the Wavelength Brick(asynchronous), and the Ayre QB-9. I have also listened extensively to the Audio Research DAC 5, though I have not owned that product. Of these, I found the Ayre provided the best overall sound, at least from a USB source.
As noted above, the essential sound of the Tranquility SE is a relaxed presentation, but one filled with detail that was simply not present in any other configuration that I have had previously. As the DAC has broken in, I have noticed the following improvements. The bass became fully developed over time. As the DAC got more hours under its belt, the bass continued to deepen and towards the end of the break-in period (after a couple hundred hours or so) the bass definition improved substantially. Bass instruments and drums are very clearly defined in space with really beautiful, rich timbre to the sound. The treble has also improved dramatically. Cymbals now hit with very fast transient attack and decay very naturally. Hearing this makes me realize that what I was hearing before was essentially white noise that approximated the sound of a cymbal. Which brings me to the most obvious character to the sound -- it just sounds like the real thing.
Vocals have a 3 dimensional presence to them -- the voice emerges from such a black background that you can either hear or maybe just perceive the physical presence of the person singing the words, not just the voice. It is a difficult thing to describe, but it is transformative to the quality of the music. A good recording no longer sounds like a recorded piece of music, the sonic illusion is completely convincing. Other instruments have a similar quality in that they are isolated in space, though incredibly life like and life size and resonate to fill the soundstage, which by the way is absolutely huge. It fills the room from ceiling to floor and several feet outside of the speakers. Also, sounds that were previously either totally inaudible or buried in the mix, are now crystal clear and distinct. Finally, the music just grooves. My wife, who has never gotten very excited about earlier improvements and tweaks, has noticed it too. There is something about the detail and interplay between the instruments that communicates more than just the sound. It draws you in emotionally to a degree that I have not experienced before. It is frequently a revelation to listen to old favorites -- songs that we have heard hundreds of times before sound totally different -- in addition to all sorts of new sounds and detail, there is an underlying beauty to the music that just grabs you.
At this point, you can surmise that I am extremely pleased both with the product and the service that I have received in my dealings with db Audio Labs. I have not participated in other threads, but felt compelled to write this review after my experience with this company.
I cannot recommend the Tranquility DAC SE and db Audio Labs highly enough. If you are using a computer as a source or looking to make the jump to a computer based music, I suggest that you give Eric a call. To get the most out of the product, I think you do need to use the Mac Mini as your source, but provided you have one, or are going to purchase one, the Tranquility SE is a remarkable product.
I do want to also call out one other product that I have been particularly pleased with, and which also seems to be a perfect complement to this DAC, at least in my configuration. I purchased Bruce Brisson's DIY Giant Killer speaker cables with the two upgrade modules (www.diyaudiocable.com). The total price comes to about $1200, which is not especially cheap for wire, but as best I can tell, the DIY product is roughly equivalent to MIT's Magnum 1.3 retail product which sells for ~$4k. Whatever its retail equivalent, it absolutely blows away any other wire that I have used including mid-range Audioquest, Transparent and Kimber products that are all in the same price range. The assembly required is negligible and the sound quality delivered by these cables is absolutely fantastic.
System Components
Balanced Audio Vk-55SE
Audio Research LS-26
Magnepan 1.7's
Tranquility DAC and Essential USB
2008 Mac Mini with external firewire HD
Bruce Brisson DIY Giant Killer Speaker Cables
Audioquest Columbia interconnects
Entry level Shunyata Power cords
Shunyata Hydra 2 power conditioner
db Audio Labs Duo Power Filter Cord (to Mac)
-
I do want to also call out one other product that I have been particularly pleased with, and which also seems to be a perfect complement to this DAC, at least in my configuration. I purchased Bruce Brisson's DIY Giant Killer speaker cables with the two upgrade modules (www.diyaudiocable.com). The total price comes to about $1200, which is not especially cheap for wire, but as best I can tell, the DIY product is roughly equivalent to MIT's Magnum 1.3 retail product which sells for ~$4k. Whatever its retail equivalent, it absolutely blows away any other wire that I have used including mid-range Audioquest, Transparent and Kimber products that are all in the same price range. The assembly required is negligible and the sound quality delivered by these cables is absolutely fantastic.
What a great review - well done. Some other cables that work well with the Trainquility are Ribbontec cables:
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/cables.php
I compared them to a few cables such as Van Der Hull and some overpriced $10K job whose name escapes me. It blew them all away. In fact in comparison the Van Der Hull made the music sound dull and for want of a better word brown. Well worth getting a pair to try - although not mentioned in the link I am pretty sure the maker has a money back guarantee.
Thanks
Bill
-
Just - how should I put it - acquired - a copy of Jodi Mitchell Blue direct from the master. Wasn't really thinking when I started playing it. But the moment I heard it WOW. Unbelievable. Absolutely entrancing. I have always believed direct from the master is the go - this just confirms it. I wish everything was released that way.
I know Eric designed the Tranquility using double blind tests from the master tape. Believe me when fed that diet it shines. As I am typing this I keep hearing stuff from all over the place such as knocks etc and keep on looking up to see if someone is knocking on the door or something else is going on in my room. This is crazy.
Thanks
Bill
-
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91134.new#new
Eric seems to agree when I talked to him about it.
-
Dear All
I have been following this thread and can see that you are really enthusiastic abou the DAC. Since I live overseas it is impossible to audit the DAC and I find it a little risky to purchase without listening in my own system. A few questions:
- is it tested in any well reputable HiFi magazine?
- how is it directly comparred to the Ayre QB 9 (seems to be the king)?
- I could read somewhere that the DAC reduce all native resolutions down to redbook before converting. How does that impact the sound of hi-rez files?
Thanx
Geir
Norway
-
I have been following this thread and can see that you are really enthusiastic abou the DAC. Since I live overseas it is impossible to audit the DAC and I find it a little risky to purchase without listening in my own system. A few questions:
- is it tested in any well reputable HiFi magazine?
- how is it directly comparred to the Ayre QB 9 (seems to be the king)?
- I could read somewhere that the DAC reduce all native resolutions down to redbook before converting. How does that impact the sound of hi-rez files?
Hi Geir
The Tranquility has not been tested by Hi Fi magazines yet. The issue is if you don't advertise in such magazines then they are usually not interested. This is why I personally don't use the term reputable to describe them.
However it has been reviewed by a professional reviewer who I respect and know can be trusted:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/audio-reviews/digital-source-reviews/item/169-dblabs-tranquility-usb-dac-signature-edition
It has been compared to the Ayre - although I personally do not think that is the DAC to beat - I know quite a few DAC's that IMHO are better:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75402.80
I know a guy who had just been checking out the Ayre and popped around to hear the Tranquility because he found out I had it at Hi Fi shop for people to check out. It blew it away.
Yes it does down-sample Hi Res but surprisingly double blind tests show little or no difference. Quite a few studies have now shown that the audible advantages of Hi Res is mostly at the recording engineers stage where they can be a lot sloppier. When down-sampled to bog standard 44.1/16 it is surprisingly difficult to tell a difference. I have directly compared Hi Res on a WFS DAC and the Tranquility - the Tranquility is better.
Thanks
Bill
-
Thanks for all the kind words guys; but, one small correction....I'm the chief designer for the Tranquility. Eric is the sales/marketing for dB Audio Labs, and a good one at that.
-
Dear All
Thanx for the replies. I need to go through some of the threads and that may take some days since I will go to Germany for a meeting now.
But one question strikes me; the DAC is reducing the resolution from hi-rez to cd quality and still performs well. Very good. I have feeling that the db Audio Labs are working with an upgraded version that can play the native resolution whatever it is and maybe launch this soon???
A smart supplier will never admit and confirm such speculations since that may reduce the sales of today’s product….
I’ll be back.
Rgds
G
-
Yea Bill, get the facts straight. :oops: :duh: :lol:
Ultrafi is the silent man behind the Tranquility. :thumb:
Eric is the face of Tranquility. 8)
-
I have feeling that the db Audio Labs are working with an upgraded version that can play the native resolution whatever it is and maybe launch this soon??? A smart supplier will never admit and confirm such speculations since that may reduce the sales of today’s product….
The Hi Rez version is definitely in the pipeline and I will be getting one when released. Last I heard the issue was they did not want to release it until it was at least as good as the normal version. That was proving difficult because the normal version sounds so good. Also I know the the trial offer on the Tranquility extends to overseas counties. I am in Australia and thats how I got mine.
Thanks
Bill
-
As a Tranquility and now Tranquility SE owner it is my not so humble opinion thay it is going to take a lot to pry my ears and my heart away from the SE. When I began my music server quest, I was the owner of a Cary 306-200 CD player and many HUNDREDS of CD's. Since acquiring my Tranquility DACs and selling my 306 I can categorically state that I never had this level of musical enjoyment from any of my prior systems. The Tranquility has a way of communication the music and the emotion within in an organic manner that the Cary and prior digital playback componentry never did. The Cary seemed to be "more detailed" in the beginning, but I soon came to realize that the original Tranquility DAC was resolving the details as integral portions of musical timbre and subtlety and the Cary was putting and etched and stark haze over many of the upper midrange and HF components - very much like a tiny burst of white noise that shouted HEY! LISTEN TO ME!!! Neither of the Tranquility DACs do that. They make music in a way that hi-rez to my ears, at least at this time, has failed to do.
I've been "doing music" for many years as a listener as well as an industry professional. SACD has nothing on my Tranquility SE, nor do any of the hi-rez files that I have heard in the context of sheer listenability. Some of the hi-rez files may have a little more energy in some places, but (at least to my ears) most of it isn't MUSIC and that is the important part. If I want to hear edgy, etched and hard I'll just go back down to the recording studio. For me 16 bit 44.1 NOS is a respite from all that is bad about digital reproduction. My advice is to let the computer downsample from whatever to the native Redbook format and just enjoy the music. Oh yeah - there are millions of 44.1/16 files out there, too. :thumb:
Dave
-
Right on, Dave.
Since all of my music is on my computer, I did a calculation and found that about 98% of my music is 16/44 and 96% of my new music purchases are 16/44. The vast majority of what I have and would be interested to purchase is not high-resolution. And like you I've found that the Tranquility (and then the SE) make 16/44 sound much better than high-resolution files sounded on my previous DAC. And I'm not a vinyl/tube person. I've had solid state and CDs for 20 years. I'm happy with detailed and accurate sound--there's just a lot more music in 16/44 than most people have experienced (including me before I took a chance on the Tranquility DAC under the introductory pricing).
-
--there's just a lot more music in 16/44 than most people have experienced (including me before I took a chance on the Tranquility DAC under the introductory pricing).
What was the introductory price?
-
John,
$995. Check the industry ads circle for a similar, but even better deal.
-- Jim
-
Hi Guys,
Here is a direct link to the Tranquility Open Box Super Sale that Jim is referring to in the Industry Ad section: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=90961.0
I would like to thank everyone on AudioCircle for your wonderful support and your kind words! :green:
Cheers,
Eric Hider
dB Audio Labs
Phone: 248-798-9555
Email: ehider@me.com
Website: www.dbaudiolabs.com
-
Right on, Dave.
Since all of my music is on my computer, I did a calculation and found that about 98% of my music is 16/44 and 96% of my new music purchases are 16/44. The vast majority of what I have and would be interested to purchase is not high-resolution. And like you I've found that the Tranquility (and then the SE) make 16/44 sound much better than high-resolution files sounded on my previous DAC. And I'm not a vinyl/tube person. I've had solid state and CDs for 20 years. I'm happy with detailed and accurate sound--there's just a lot more music in 16/44 than most people have experienced (including me before I took a chance on the Tranquility DAC under the introductory pricing).
The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the NOS DAC that is in the Tranquility is old enough to vote in every state in the Union. Many of the discs that I have are from the mid eighties and the Tranquility SE is stripping out information that my Cary with its' 8 (yep, count 'em EIGHT) PCM1792's had no clue was there or got wrong. Part of the beauty of the Tranquility DACs is that ultrafi had the foresight to know that less is more in digital audio design and then to use the BEST parts for each aspect of that design - not necessarily the most expensive - just the BEST. Great job! :thumb:
I have been in the semiconductor aspect of audio for the best part of 40 years - much of it in the manufacturing end (wafer implantation) of the product. One of the inherent problems with high bitrate oversampling DACs is the digital filters built into these ships. These filters are designed to be lossy - that is what a filter does. Do you really want 4,6 or 8 of these inherently lossy constructs between you and the music. I don't.
It is bad enough that digital music is like taking a Kobi steak and grinding it up into hamburger. Don't get me wrong: I like Kobiburgers. Now imagine that you had 6 people all in a row lookig at that Kobi and they were all picking out what they though shouldn't be in that beef and throwing it away before sending it to the cook. Dude! Can you say "Yecchhh?" Bland is all it would be.
Dave
-
The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the NOS DAC that is in the Tranquility is old enough to vote in every state in the Union. Many of the discs that I have are from the mid eighties and the Tranquility SE is stripping out information that my Cary with its' 8 (yep, count 'em EIGHT) PCM1792's had no clue was there or got wrong. Part of the beauty of the Tranquility DACs is that ultrafi had the foresight to know that less is more in digital audio design and then to use the BEST parts for each aspect of that design - not necessarily the most expensive - just the BEST.
Hi Dave
Absolutely. The Tranquility DAC guys are not the only ones to find this out. A number of people I know who have built and designed DAC's simply could not find a modern chip better than PCM1704 or a Phillips double crown. It's not confined to DAC's either. Mike Lenehan of ML1 fame uses Peerless HDS Woofers because he tested tons and found it the best. Sigfried Linkwitz measured their distortion and found it second only to the Seas Magnesium - and the difference was not much. Yet because it doesn't cost as much as other drivers some people poo poo it. Go figure.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Dave
Absolutely. The Tranquility DAC guys are not the only ones to find this out. A number of people I know who have built and designed DAC's simply could not find a modern chip better than PCM1704 or a Phillips double crown. It's not confined to DAC's either. Mike Lenehan of ML1 fame uses Peerless HDS Woofers because he tested tons and found it the best. Sigfried Linkwitz measured their distortion and found it second only to the Seas Magnesium - and the difference was not much. Yet because it doesn't cost as much as other drivers some people poo poo it. Go figure.
Thanks
Bill
Bill,
We live in a time when "new and improved" generally means more capability at a lower cost, not better. I'll take better every time. :thumb:
Dave
-
Hello,I am following this thread (and the Mach2 one as well) and am having a little trouble deciding about which to buy first: The Tranquility SE or the Mach2 Mini? Presently using a Windows 7 machine (upgrading to an Antec 1200/850 watt PSU case,MUCH quieter it should be than my present one,but this will be used for video and other processes),and I have really no experience using the Mac O/S (it is Snow Leopard,correct?).
I'm awaiting a reply back from Mach2 on some of my questions,and would like to make a decision to purchase one of the two this weekend. I'm not really crazy about using a 1/8 mini out for audio until later when I can get the Tranquility.. (I also use a Joule Electra tube preamp and McCormack dna-0.5 dlx Rev.A SS amp.)
Thanks for any feedback,I'll be tuning back in after work tonite.
Steve
-
Hi Steve
I would get the Tranquility SE first - it will work fine with your current Windows machine - just not to its optimum thats all. Then look into getting the Mach 2. I have used the Tranquility with a Windows machine and it was still better (to my ears) than some other USB DAC's such as the WFS.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Steve
I would get the Tranquility SE first - it will work fine with your current Windows machine - just not to its optimum thats all. Then look into getting the Mach 2. I have used the Tranquility with a Windows machine and it was still better (to my ears) than some other USB DAC's such as the WFS.
Thanks
Bill
Hello,I am following this thread (and the Mach2 one as well) and am having a little trouble deciding about which to buy first: The Tranquility SE or the Mach2 Mini? Presently using a Windows 7 machine (upgrading to an Antec 1200/850 watt PSU case,MUCH quieter it should be than my present one,but this will be used for video and other processes),and I have really no experience using the Mac O/S (it is Snow Leopard,correct?).
I'm awaiting a reply back from Mach2 on some of my questions,and would like to make a decision to purchase one of the two this weekend. I'm not really crazy about using a 1/8 mini out for audio until later when I can get the Tranquility.. (I also use a Joule Electra tube preamp and McCormack dna-0.5 dlx Rev.A SS amp.)
Thanks for any feedback,I'll be tuning back in after work tonite.
Steve
I agree with Bill. Get the Tranquility SE and go along your upgrade path from there. Eric Hider is also available for great advice. I am using my Tranquility SE with McCormack equipment. Sounds great! Regards, Din Dayemi
-
Hi Steve
I would get the Tranquility SE first - it will work fine with your current Windows machine - just not to its optimum thats all. Then look into getting the Mach 2. I have used the Tranquility with a Windows machine and it was still better (to my ears) than some other USB DAC's such as the WFS.
Thanks
Bill
I agree with Bill. Get the Tranquility SE and go along your upgrade path from there. Eric Hider is also available for great advice. I am using my Tranquility SE with McCormack equipment. Sounds great! Regards, Din Dayemi
Thanks for your feedback guys. I've been following this thread and the Tranquility DAC/db Audio Labs for some months now. I'm looking for #1,a great product and #2,quality customer service. I'd like to say I feel confident to purchase a Tranquility for myself and finally begin to listen with music.
It will let enough time for breaking in the DAC before I get enough money up to decide upon a Mac Mini (or other variations) for a music server.
As an aside,without overstepping,(as this is just my 2nd post yet)...great points about high resolution/oversampling DAC's. Very good points,as with myself as well,I only have maybe 2% of my digital music collection in "Hi-Res" format.
However,we should be careful not to stray from the original intent of the topic,no? (As per the warning from one of the staff as to closing down the thread if we wander off,it is a massive thread,no doubt! I think I need to archive it all somehow.. ;) Just looking out,no disrespect intended.
I'll try to get an email out to Eric Hider soon to arrange for my payment and field any questions I may have to him.
OT: I'm curious if anyone who owns a Tranquility has listened to Electronic music,particularly analog recorded stuff,like this one I have,VA - Electronic Toys or VA - Gravikords Whirlies And Pyrophones?
Or Yello? "Ohhh yyyeeahhhh!"
I'm almost keen to buy the DAC just for fun music like this,to see how it all works together. Nevermind. :/ (Honestly,Music holds a dear place in my heart/mind and I feel we humans might benefit for finding ways to bring more and better quality of it into one's life.)
Steve
-
Hi Steve,
As far as looking for a great product AND great customer service, I would have to point to the DB Audio Labs Tranquility SE USB dac and Eric Hider. You can read through this thread to hear about all the good things that the dac does. As far as the great customer service, I am witness to it first hand with Eric. I had some issues with the dac and the usb cable. Not only did Eric address things right away, he followed up and made sure that I was a happy customer. His customer service is superb!
-
OT: I'm curious if anyone who owns a Tranquility has listened to Electronic music,particularly analog recorded stuff,like this one I have,VA - Electronic Toys or VA - Gravikords Whirlies And Pyrophones?
Or Yello? "Ohhh yyyeeahhhh!"
I'm almost keen to buy the DAC just for fun music like this,to see how it all works together. Nevermind. :/ (Honestly,Music holds a dear place in my heart/mind and I feel we humans might benefit for finding ways to bring more and better quality of it into one's life.)
Steve
I listen to a lot of Electronic music through the Tranquility SE and it does indeed sound amazing. Actually, anything I have put through this DAC has let the music come through. It doesn't seem to only work its magic on one type of music, it lets the original recording come through and you'll notice all kinds of nuances from every genre. I've listened to everything from Aphex Twin, Autechre, Brian Eno, Yello, Deadmau5, Squarepusher, Plaid etc etc and I've never heard anything near this level of reproduction. I don't think you can go wrong with the Tranquility, and Eric offers some of the best customer service and customer care in this field.
-
Thanks for your feedback guys. I've been following this thread and the Tranquility DAC/db Audio Labs for some months now. I'm looking for #1,a great product and #2,quality customer service.
Steve, I can tell you that the Tranquility is a great product and as far as customer service goes Eric has extended his services and insight far more than any manufacturer I have dealt with in all my years in audio or in any other type purchase I have ever made for that matter. It is rare that someone who sells you a product truly cares that you enjoy it and get the most out of it, Eric and db audio labs definately took this to a new level in my experience. That said please know I am not a shill. I have no affiliation with db audio labs or any one else on this forum. I live in Eastern Canada and also took a chance on this dac and I can tell you that I am very happy with the *musicality* of this Dac.
OT: I'm curious if anyone who owns a Tranquility has listened to Electronic music,particularly analog recorded stuff,like this one I have,VA - Electronic Toys or VA - Gravikords Whirlies And Pyrophones?
Or Yello? "Ohhh yyyeeahhhh!"
I listen to some electronic music (not sure about the analog recorded stuff) for example I listen to some Aphex twin (1997 who's your daddy album) and it is outstanding, does not sound *Digital* If you know what I mean.
Please keep in mind that I am NOT listening to this dac not through a Mac Mini but a toshiba laptop and it sound (to me) stellar. So I would definately get the dac first. I also plan on getting a mac mini in the future and if it improves what I am hearing now I will be astounded. :thumb:
-
hey guys, just ordered the Tranquility DAC...which powercord would you get if on budget?...looking to spend 100-150.00 for used at Audiogon...thx.
-
hey guys, just ordered the Tranquility DAC...which powercord would you get if on budget?...looking to spend 100-150.00 for used at Audiogon...thx.
Is it the SE? If not then its designed so power chords are not that important. If it is the SE then get the best one you can afford. I used a MIT second hand one on mine to good effect but an acquaintance made some up for me that was more expensive and it was better. Put the MIT's on my amp instead and it sounds better. But Dave of PI Audio is sending some out with a Mac Mini Power chord that is supposed to be really good - but more expensive again.
Thanks
Bill
-
Is it the SE? If not then its designed so power chords are not that important. If it is the SE then get the best one you can afford. I used a MIT second hand one on mine to good effect but an acquaintance made some up for me that was more expensive and it was better. Put the MIT's on my amp instead and it sounds better. But Dave of PI Audio is sending some out with a Mac Mini Power chord that is supposed to be really good - but more expensive again.
Thanks
Bill
I bought the reg Tranquility for the 995.00 open box special price and with reg USB cable thrown in for free... :D :D
Eric said I should use a decent powercord so I ended up buying a used Shunyata Black Diamond for 105.00 on Audiogon...although I am just getting back into being a pseudo-audiophile, I know myself and I would upgrade too quickly unless I get something "decent" even to start.
Next I need to get the Mac Mini...should I go 09' MM or just pay the ectra price for the 10' model???...can the 10' MM really be better than a souped up earlier year MM with all the tweeks that Eric tells you to do???
-
Yes get the 2010. I'm getting one when my tax return comes back. I havn't heard the two compared in person, but the people I trust that have, say even stock the 2010 is as good or better than a tweaked 2009. The 10 can be taken further with the upgrades too.
+1 on the customer sevice being the best in the biz!
-
Yes get the 2010. I'm getting one when my tax return comes back. I havn't heard the two compared in person, but the people I trust that have, say even stock the 2010 is as good or better than a tweaked 2009. The 10 can be taken further with the upgrades too.
+1 on the customer sevice being the best in the biz!
I second gprro. The 2010 Mini is what I'm eventually getting but another option is a PowerMac G5. These are large dinosaurs but can be gotten cheap used and are very easy to upgrade (RAM and new HD). There is some fan noise but the power supply is superior to pre-2010 Mac Mini so does sound better. The 2010 Mac Mini has a redesigned power supply that supposedly makes a huge difference.
-
Next I need to get the Mac Mini...should I go 09' MM or just pay the ectra price for the 10' model???...can the 10' MM really be better than a souped up earlier year MM with all the tweeks that Eric tells you to do???
Yes it does. The guys at Mach2 figured out how to make the 2010 Mini really sing with the Tranquility SE. Another thing on the Tranquility DAC is that it likes a little mass loading on top with some good cones or rigid footers under it.
Dave
-
I'm really anxious to hear one of these... anyone have one in upstate NY (near Rochester) who might let me audition it?
gary
-
..
-
although I havent broken in my new off label 50wpc tube amp, I have a feeling it wont properly drive my Martin Logan CLS's...sounds thin and muffled...think a different amp is in the cards also...should get the Tranquility tomorrow...you guys have any rec's for a amp that will drive the CLS's properly??...will prob buy used...most seem to like the Pass Labs and Plinius SS amps.
not sure the cls's can be properly driven. years back, when i considered buying a pair, i queried m-l about 'em, and they told me that, even if actively crossed over to subs at 100hz, they would never go louder than 93db. while they may sound magical at lower volumes and with smaller type music, (and they do), they won't do well w/a lot of music, or loud music. pass & plinius sound like good choices, cuz of their ability to output current, but do not overlook electrocompaniet -fantastic s/s amps, imo, and amazing ability to drive difficult loads. if you insist on tubes, consider finding a used mesa baron - good at driving most anything, and not too spendy, if you can find one. also, consider active crossover and subs, to help the relieve cls'
ymmv,
doug s.
-
you guys have any rec's for a amp that will drive the CLS's properly??...will prob buy used.
Yep - the NAKSA has an excellent affinity for electrostatics and can drive them with ease:
http://www.aksaonline.com/products/products_NAKSA70.html
I had one in my system for quite a while (sold it to upgrade to the 100W version) and it is an excellent amp - very good clarity, bass grip and an easy listening non fatiguing sound. Don't worry that its a kit amp - your local electronics technician can easily build it for you.
Thanks
Bill
-
I will start a another thread about ML speakers since I dont want this thread to get too off topic...:).
-
I just thought I would pass something reviews often don't worry too much about - what happens when something goes wrong. Well my Tranquility SE is a bit on the blink - so what did Eric do. He not only pays to have it shipped back but will be sending a new one. You really can't ask for more than that.
Thanks
Bill
-
I was just thinking about dropping a note of thanks to Eric. I had a repeating problem with my system that I thought was my dac and turned out to be unrelated. However, he worked through the issues requiring back and forth shipping. Eric's number 1 concern was making sure I had music playing as soon as possible. I have been so fortunate to deal with some fantastic manufacturers but Eric has to take the cake.
Oh by the way, the Tranquility SE is a monster value and a total no brainer for anyone with a mac and $1895. Thank you Eric.
David
-
Asynchronousity...? The QB-9 vs. the SE
I had an interesting experience recently. I had a chance to pick up a slightly used Ayre QB-9 DAC at a very fair price. Having read many positive reviews on the Ayre and the "obvious" benefits of asynchronous technology, I bought the QB-9 so I could compare it head-to-head with my Tranquility SE. After about 8 weeks of A/B comparison, the Tranquility SE emerged the clear winner.
We (my wife and I) would be hard pressed to single out any aspect of the QB-9's presentation that we preferred over the SE. I don't know, perhaps the bass was a tiny bit more articulate? But we preferred the SE in every respect. Overall, we both felt that the SE had a far more organic nature. I don't know how else to explain it. My wife said the Ayre, while very good, very accurate, sounded like a "computer"; too clinical. I could not disagree.
To be honest, I bought the QB-9 expecting that I would prefer it to the SE, which is why I held on to it for 2 months! I actually wanted to prefer the QB-9. I felt that the Ayre's ability to handle hi-rez files and the fact that it was an asynchronous DAC would surely make it the better choice. But every time I placed the SE back in the rack it was an effort to listen critically. I found that I'd tend to end the analysis and start enjoying the music. The SE exhibited more air in its presentation, better imaging, cleaner and clearer highs and that fabled Tranquility mid-range. It is both liquid and detailed in nature. Note that the SE took 100's of hours to get to this point. I've never experienced a longer break-in or more profound metamorphosis in any piece of equipment I've owned.
When I finally decided it was time to part with the Ayre, I received the usual "why are you selling" inquiries from interested parties. Whereby I would explain my impressions and experience with the Ayre vs. the Tranquility, HiFace, modded HiFace and a CA 840C I used to own. It's interesting that the gentleman who bought my QB-9 could not fathom the idea that any DAC lacking asynchronous technology could possibly sound better than an asynchronous unit!
But then again... that was me... roughly 2 months ago.
-
Glad you had the opportunity to hear this for yourself with both dacs concurrently. I too at one time was convinced that async was a must for the best usb dac sound, but I had the original Tranquility and a Wavelength Cosecant at the same time and while the Cosecant is a wonderful dac, it just couldn't do what the Tranquility did for the music and my overall listening enjoyment. I now have the SE and still have no real need or interest in a high-res dac.
Thanks for the post,
Jim
-
Michagain, I agree entirely with your experience. The SE is in so many ways just remarkable and a complete pleasure to own and use. For me it is the most listenable component in my system. What's ironic is that I was most skeptical of the Tranquility and its raves from early adopters. You can see my review and apology for my skepticism here:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rdgtl&1299203545&read&keyw&zztranquility
:) listening,
Ed
-
Ed, Thanks for the link to thread on AudiogoN. When I bought the Ayre QB-9 it came with a Ridge Street Poiema USB cable. So I also got the opportunity to compare the Ridge Street to the Tranquility Essential USB. The Ridge Street is a wonderful cable that seemed to offer great extention vs. the Essential. I'd love to try the Ridge Street Poiema P/C you mentioned. Right now I'm using a LessLoss P/C on the SE and it would be fun to compare the two.
Yup, the fun never ends!
My best,
Curt
-
As usual, I have to add my $.02.
I've taken a lot of heat because I jumped on the Tranquility bandwagon early. You have to put yourself in my place. I am an analog junkie. I came up in recording studios where there was nothing better than 2" MCI/Sony JH16 machines locked via SMPTE for 32 or 48 tracks, running at 30ips with no noise reduction. Then we mixed down and mastered to 1/2" 30ips 2 track. Only then did we hit the digital domain if necessary. 2 channel first generation masters are the best sound one can ever hear.
I chased digital for years since its' inception finally ending up with a Cary 306-200 as a player. It sounded good, but with that distant sterility that digital usually has. SACD was OK, but still not "there" for me.
Enter the original Tranquility. It established a new digital paradigm for me. It wasn't perfect, nothing ever is. It lacked final authority in the extreme low frequencies, but made of for this by having tremendous pitch definition and texture. The mids were (and still are) glorious. The HF lacked ultimate extention, but I'm 63 and although I can still hear upto 15K very well I make no bones about my limitations up there. The Tranquility had a way of presenting cymbals (I'm a recovering drummer... now a guitarist) as something more than a burst of white noise with very little decay. The Tranquilities - both of them - have the seemingly unique ability to track trailing edges, what we recording engineers call the release or decay, better than any digital playback I had heard in my home. It was on a par with the old Mitsubishi DASH recorders. Harmonic series emerge intact, something that other DACs have just not done for me.
For years I was unaware of just how much good raw data was being captured and laid down on the tapes, HDD and finally the CD's that we were not stripping off in playback. Now I know, especially with the SE and a good music player on my Mach2 Mini. I am constantly amazed at the depth of the data being resolved. The SE does everything the original Tranquility did plus a bunch more. PRAT is what it is all about. The LF now have the slam I wanted and the HF are even better than before. Best of all the overall presentation is just more "in the pocket", if you know what I mean.
The dB Audio Labs guys nailed it for me. The end result is a player that is amazingly musical - more "analog-like", if you will. There are players out there that are more detailed, to be sure, but none under $50,000.00 that get the music, emotion and listenability thing as correct as the SE, IMNSHO.
Things will change, they always do. I can tell you this: if digital playback never got better than the Tranquility Special Edition it wouldn't matter to me. It (they) are all about the music and that is just fine by me.
All of this just to say: I like it, I really really like it.
YMMV, but I don't care :D
Dave
-
Well, since Dave puts it so well, I thought it high time to appease Eric and write something up. Though reared on planet "analog", I had many doubts as to what makes things "right". So many nuances from the master tape and lots of "yap" about "hi-rez". I had the good fortune to visit Robert at Ridge Street, and Larry at Ultra. Each provided systems without constraint, fully revealing the attributes of "A/B" auditioning. I'm a musician and will always remark that "live" is always "neutral" as in "flat" and enunciated as in vowels and consonants. So, too, should be our audio re-representation. To me it is either "remarkable" or "unremarkable". Component synergy subjectively comes in as many ways as there are listening "types". Given that, certain products provide a "musical" enhancement, to what might already be a "great" system. When instruments sound "correct", the brass, the reeds, strings and percussion, the music follows. I find the Tranquility with Signature cabling, fully capable of making a difference. That "difference" is "remarkable" ! Thanks Eric, for a job well done !
-
The Tranquility had a way of presenting cymbals (I'm a recovering drummer... now a guitarist) as something more than a burst of white noise with very little decay. The Tranquilities - both of them - have the seemingly unique ability to track trailing edges, what we recording engineers call the release or decay, better than any digital playback I had heard in my home. It was on a par with the old Mitsubishi DASH recorders. Harmonic series emerge intact, something that other DACs have just not done for me.
Having lived with a mediocre import DAC for an extended period of time, these words remind me of the Wally Heider-ized cymbals I grew up with in the '70's. In these later days I've found myself frequently longing for those stand-out cymbal signatures that were once part of the rock era. I can't say that I've yet heard the SE Tranquility, but I now feel a touch more confident that this is a product path to investigate as I search for a DAC platform that effectively deals with big-band and ensemble jazz reproduction tasks.
Looks like the other 40+ other pages of this thread are worth reading...
(Well, I hope you didn't expect too much from me on my first post... hi guys!)
-
Having lived with a mediocre import DAC for an extended period of time, these words remind me of the Wally Heider-ized cymbals I grew up with in the '70's. In these later days I've found myself frequently longing for those stand-out cymbal signatures that were once part of the rock era. I can't say that I've yet heard the SE Tranquility, but I now feel a touch more confident that this is a product path to investigate as I search for a DAC platform that effectively deals with big-band and ensemble jazz reproduction tasks.
Looks like the other 40+ other pages of this thread are worth reading...
(Well, I hope you didn't expect too much from me on my first post... hi guys!)
Welcome.....and I too will agree with everyone else that my experience with Eric at dB Labs has been nothing short of exceptional.....he loves to help, is always offering ways to get the most from the DAC, and certainly stands behind his product. And yes, it sounds great with jazz.....tonally accurate, huge soundstage and great imaging.
-
Having lived with a mediocre import DAC for an extended period of time, these words remind me of the Wally Heider-ized cymbals I grew up with in the '70's. In these later days I've found myself frequently longing for those stand-out cymbal signatures that were once part of the rock era. I can't say that I've yet heard the SE Tranquility, but I now feel a touch more confident that this is a product path to investigate as I search for a DAC platform that effectively deals with big-band and ensemble jazz reproduction tasks.
Looks like the other 40+ other pages of this thread are worth reading...
(Well, I hope you didn't expect too much from me on my first post... hi guys!)
Back in the day (Lord, how I regret using that term, but it fits) recording engineers spent their time putting the right mic in the right place suing minimal EQ and recording to analog machines. Wally Heider was one of the best at capturing a drum kit - especially the air of cymbals. The man knew how to place overheads.
That is why I like/own the Tranquility SE: it gets me close to those days... I guess. Emotion, that's it! 8) I can easily get "detailed out"!
Dave
-
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=97076.0
I think Tranquility owners should try this out. :thumb:
-
Dracule - interesting - are you using your Tranquility SE with the dB Audio Signature USB cable?
-
No. I am using Ridge Street Audio Enopias USB cable. It is better than the dB Audio Labs USB cable, but it is 4 times more expensive.
-
Folks,
I wanted to revive this thread a bit, but instead posted this:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103843.new#new
It is about my very good experience with the NEW and AMAZING Tranquility output stage. What a sound! In my view, it made a really real sounding DAC a DAC that is "NO DAC". It just sounds so much like natural music, that I don't think gear, I just enjoy. 8)
-
Hi everyone. I've been looking for a NOS DAC, having been deeply dissatisfied with the hollow, edgy and substanceless sound of nearly all digital sources I've head, and have been considering the MHDT Havana, the Metrum Octave, Scott Nixon, etc. Currently have an inexpensive DACport LX from Centrance, which is great in all the hi-fi ways, but ultimately etched and not that musical. I listen to lots of rock and jazz LPs on tube amplification using vintage Tannoy speakers. I love tone, dynamics and presence, and that's what digital typically lacks. I wonder if the Tranquility might be the next step.
-
Mink,
The Tranquility sounds like what you are looking for. It is a fantastic NOS Dac that has a wonderful analog sound to it. There is good detail, open highs, good midrange, and a solid bass.
As others can attest to, Eric is terrific to work with. You end up with a terrific DAC and great service.
-
Both the Tranquility and the Red Wine Audio Isabellina are more what you're looking for. Although I think the the PS Audio PerfectWave DAC also fits the bill, albeit at a higher price.
-
Yes the Tranquility would definitely be worth considering. Avail yourself of the free trial and check it out.
Thanks
Bill
-
Yes the Tranquility would definitely be worth considering. Avail yourself of the free trial and check it out.
Thanks
Bill
Or just buy this one for 1/3 the cost of new:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106939.0
-
Hi folks.
I recently decided to get into the whole DAC game and after reading this thread I picked up a Tranquility SE. I have enjoyed a noticeable jump in sound quality, free from that digital graininess that I was accustomed to hearing when I previously ran a 3.5mm headphone jack to RCA cable from my computer to my integrated amplifier. The highs have lost a touch of edginess, and the soundstage is much for discernable.
Question though: I have noticed that using the USB DAC has given me a large drop in volume, to such an extent that at my regular listening level I will get about half the volume via USB that I get via the 3.5mm connector. Is this typical? Or is there potentially an issue with the DAC or my computer itself?
This is problematic since my integrated amplifier now needs to be set close to maximum volume to be at my regular listening level, which isn't ideal.
I am running Windows 8, and I have the volume on the USB DAC configuration set to 100%.
-
I assume you have volume for iTunes (or whatever you're using) set to maximum.
Anyway, is the problem that you can't get the stereo as loud as you want or is it that you're uncomfortable the volume knob is set so high? If the latter, what's the harm?
Strange though. Tranquility DAC has 2V maximum? Input sensitivity of your amp should be 2V or less. If it isn't, there's your problem.
-
The Tranquility actually has an output of over 2v so it shouldn't be a problem.
-
I assume you have volume for iTunes (or whatever you're using) set to maximum.
Anyway, is the problem that you can't get the stereo as loud as you want or is it that you're uncomfortable the volume knob is set so high? If the latter, what's the harm?
Strange though. Tranquility DAC has 2V maximum? Input sensitivity of your amp should be 2V or less. If it isn't, there's your problem.
Thanks for the reply.
Itunes and Foobar2000 both have the volume set to max at all times, as is the system volume.
I have compared running the 3.5mm/rca from my computers audio out to the amp with running the tranquility - same volume level and input on my amplifier (YBA Passion Integre). I played the same song, recorded the dB meter results and took the average reading for the song as played.
Result:
Computer - 78dB average
Tranquility - 64dB average
For average listening, the volume I can achieve while running the tranquility works. But when I want to listen a little louder, my amplifier maxes out. When running my turntable, cd player, or computer otherwise, there is no way I would be able to get near max volume on the amp without damaging my speakers and having the police knocking on my door for multiple noise complaints.
It's not the amp, since the same problem is exhibited when running through my home theater receiver.
I have written to Eric at dB Labs and he reckons the unit, which I purchased used, may have been modded be a previous owner and had the output stage stripped. For a nominal fee he has generously offered to take a look at the unit and upgrade to the latest output stage - an offer I will now take him up on.
I just wanted to be sure the experience I was having was atypical before committing more money. Ah well, the risks of buying used, can't win every single time. At least I paid a good price, so even with repair factored in, I am not losing money.
-
Your experience is not normal. I have previously owned a Tranquility SE and had no problems at all with volume.
-
I have been a Tranquility SE owner for about 2 years now and thought I would share some thoughts on my experiences with the DAC. In short, I have been very happy with the sound and the value of this DAC. I have not heard everything, but I have not heard another DAC that sounds this good. When implemented properly, the Tranquility is world class Shortly after receiving the SE, I wrote a review in this thread where I shared my initial thoughts and then a followup after some break in.
Over the past year, I have made a number of upgrades and tweaks that have improved the sound. First, I would recommend to all Tranquility owners and follow Eric's recommendations on set up and supporting components. These include using a Mac Mini as your source, preferably a 2010 or later version with an SSD. Also, purchase an Oyen Drive, Amarra, Pure Music or Audionirvana, and a high quality USB cable. In addition, be sure to go through the list of Mac OS software set up instructions. These include turning off journaling and making some other changes, all of which make subtle improvements to the sound.
I recently upgraded my Mac Mini from a 2006 to a 2011 version with an SSD. This made a huge improvement in the overall sound. The sound was more relaxed, but at the same time the instruments were locked in space and seemed to pop from the background, which was much quieter. The sound also had more sparkle, for lack of a better word. Cymbals and bells just have much more ring to them. This upgrade made the biggest difference of anything that I have done yet.
I also purchased an Oyen HD. I am not sure why this makes a difference, but it does. I am using Pure Music with memory play, so I don't know why the transfer from the HD would make a difference in the sound, but the improvement, though subtle, was definitely there.
I changed my USB cable to an Audioquest Diamond. This made improvements almost on part with the change to the 2011 Mini. The sound was immediately more organic and detailed.
When I first purchased the Tranquility, I picked up an Ayre QB9 off of ebay to compare the two. The Tranquility was the clear winner and I resold the Ayre after about a week. Over the holidays, I went to a local high end audio store where they had the new Audio Research Reference DAC Media Bridge. This is essentially a Reference 5 Preamp with an upgraded version of the DAC 8. I brought in the Tranquility to compare the two. The ARC piece sells for 16,000 but this includes a world class preamp section. When comparing the two, I was immediately struck by the fact that the Tranquility sounded more organic. Imaging and the level of detail was comparable in both DAC's. The ARC had the advantage in low end resolution. The bass sounded more detailed and rich through the ARC piece. But the Tranquility had a bit more detail at the high and a more natural sound. To my ear, the Tranquility was the winner, not by much, but still the winner. I have still not heard another DAC that has quite the mix of organic natural sound combined with spectacular detail that the Tranquility delivers. I am sure that there are others out there, but I would be surprised if they sell for anything close to the ~$2k that Eric charges for a Tranquility.
I just sent the Tranquility off to DBAudio labs to have a series of upgrades done. This includes among other things, cryo-ing the whole unit and making some modifications to the output section.
I should have it back in a week or so and will report on the changes that these upgrades make.
-
I also have the Tranquility SE for about 2 years now and am happy with it. However, I read about the twin power regulation upgrade by Larry Moore (Ultra-Fi, Dac41) and am wondering if anybody has experience with it. Are Eric's upgrades similar? Is it worth the investment?
Thanks,
Boris
-
It's too bad, that to optimize the Tranquility DAC, you're required to purchase the Mac Mini and specialized software. By the time you finish tweaking the system you'd have almost 3 grand invested.
-
To be fair, the same could be said of any source. Additional tweaking and work to improve the sound is just the nature of high-end audio. The Tranquility sounded absolutely terrific right out of the box running off a MacBook Pro laptop. I would put it up against any sub $5k DAC in that configuration.
But if you want to achieve the sound that the DAC is actually capable of, it is worth another $700 - $800 to do the additional tweaks. I bought the new Mini off Ebay for $450. I think Pure Music is another $50. An Oyen HD is about $130. A decent USB cable will cost a $150 or so, though as with any audio cables you can always spend more and achieve even better results. So for $800 + the cost of the Tranquility, you now have a world-class front end and music server. And you have still spent far less than it would cost to get comparable sound from a competitive product.
-
Not if you use Hals music server. The cost is much lower.
charles
-
Charles,
My understanding is that the Tranquilty DAC USB port driver is only for MAC. That is all they supported.
-
It works on any computer - there is even a way to get it working on a SB. Eric has done extensive tests showing that a Mac Mini is the best source - but others work on it just fine.
Thanks
Bill
-
Eric has done extensive tests showing that a Mac Mini is the best source - but others work on it just fine.
Thanks
Bill
Where's the data on that?
-
Where's the data on that?
Probably somewhere in the previous 46 pages of this thread...
-
Probably somewhere in the previous 46 pages of this thread...
Its probably there if you want to wade through it. But how I found out about it was to give Eric a ring.
Eric does double blind listening tests on all sorts of things associated with the DAC's - output capacitors - all sorts of stuff. I believe the Mac Mini was part of those tests.
Thanks
Bill
-
Hi Guys,
First, I'd like to thank Will for posting his newfound experiences with the Tranquility when stacked up against the Ayre QB-9 and the top Audio Research DAC design. These outcomes always make me a bit giddy and are one of the many reasons I love being in this business! :green: :green: :green:
Direct answers to recent questions::
- The Tranquility can provide connective playback to most ANY computer model and that includes PC computers too!
The drivers within the Tranquility meet all USB standards and protocols that all computer manufacturers meet for USB standards of connectivity. I think the confusion of the Tranquility being considered "Mac specific" only may be due from my considerable efforts to tell everyone how great the Mac Mini sounds connected to the Tranquility..see next point.
- The Tranquility does not actually "require" the use of a Mac Mini to work correctly. There is just more harmonic detail delivered out of the Mac Mini computer comparably. This is why the Mini is so strongly recommended by me for use with the Tranquility.
Although it is hard for many to fathom, many computers truncate or perhaps, not correctly transfer some of the subtle micro harmonic overtones as compared to the Mac Mini. This differential was discovered in blind listening tests we performed. And, the Mac Mini's potential sonic superiority over other consumer computers extends to many other fine DACs beyond the Tranquility! Finely designed DACs by companies such as Ayre, Berkley, MusicStreamer, PS Audio, Wavelength, Weiss and Empirical Audio were all deemed to sound more liquid, with greater "air" and more "relaxed" in comparatives we performed with a Mini versus other computers. Hence, this is why I naturally recommend the Mac Mini for use with the Tranquility. In a nutshell, the Mac Mini just delivers more, to many a fine DAC, and not just the Tranquility mind you. [/u]
- The cost of a Mac Mini can be very reasonable, especially if you purchase a Mac Mini used.
Quite a few of our customers have picked up an excellent used Mac Mini in the mid $350 range! For what it can bring to an audiophile's sound system sonically, there is very little I know of for that amount of money, in high end audio, that gives you so much for this price! Better depth, much improved liquidity and more air around the performers and the instruments. More "analog character" and "less digital" is the key sonic merit here. Many audiophiles are known to spend many thousands of dollars for these sonic improvements. And in my opinion, digital playback needs all the liquidity, air and depth it can get! Therefore, I have been touting the Mini to my customers as a huge deal for what it can bring to their sound system. Of course, to hear these major differences, the Mini will need to be connected to a well designed D/A converter with an excellent USB input receiver (the first part of the connecting circuitry in a DAC design). And not all DACs have great receivers. If they do though, the Mini will certainly amaze.
- I am also offering a very special regulator upgrade with six unique stages of filtration perfected specifically for the Tranquility.
Although I have been a bit too busy in preparing new product launches to make this public, I think it is time to "officially" announce our very unique six stage regulation upgrade for an introductory price of $179. It took almost 7 months and tons of iterations to fully develop this unique regulator stage! I am also offering multiple level upgrade packages for the Tranquility. Information on these modifications are not currently posted on my website at this moment. For all Tranquility owners that may be interested, please contact me directly for details. I want to keep this review thread from "getting off track" with questions posted about upgrades, mods and such on this review thread.
- The Tranquility typically exceeds most other audiophile DACs with a higher output gain of perhaps 15 to 20% comparably.
- One post here asked about the output of the Tranquility and if it is typical for it to have lower gain. In actuality, the Tranquility offers about 20% higher gain than most typical "audiophile" DACs. As an example of a question I get from more than a few new owners - "When I hooked up my Tranquility, I found that I had to turn my volume control on my pre-amp to reach the same SPL, as compared to my last DAC? Is everything O.K.?" The answer is: "Yes! The Tranquility offers just a wee bit more gain than many other DACs". And, as a side benefit, the Tranquility's additional output allows slightly better gain when connected directly to an amp (for those systems where the owner eliminates the pre-amp entirely and uses the computer to control volume). Hence, in that connection scheme, your amp may not reach it's full power output comparably with a lower output level DAC.
Thanks to all for their support and very kind words. I look forward to advancing the entire computer audio solution to new sonic heights with many new exciting offerings that I have yet to announce...hint,hint :thumb:
Happy Listening to all! Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs www.dbaudiolabs.com
-
Eric what output coupling capacitors do you use?
-
Eric, just got one of your DACs and this thread could use a bump. What exactly is this $179 6 stage filter you described earlier in the thread, thanks.
-
Would it be this gizmo?
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-ultra-fi-attention-tranquility-owners-twin-reg-upgrade-2013-03-20-digital-45140