[fwguo]

I'm planning to build a 2-channel music system, my budget is very flexible. The followings are my requirements:

• near audiophile quality
• simple
• cost effective

In words, a cheapest near audiophile quality simple system.
My thought is: though this is my first system, I hope it will also be my last one, since I don't think I have much time for it. After reading forums for a few weeks, I see that I need four types of equipments:

• CD player: thinking about Emotiva ERC-1 for $400
• preamp: perhaps also Emotiva USP-1
• amp: perhaps Emotiva UPA-2 $300
• speakers: sierra-1, salk songTower, HT3, B&W CM9; a subwoofer if needed

I'm earnestly seeking your advices. I'm a pure newbie. I like classic, vocal, pop music; like detail, warm.  I haven't decided which room to put them. There are 3 choices:

• Family room: 20'x17', perhaps also use them for TV (58" Panasonic plasma) if it is easy to do so and wife permits
• Office: 11'x11', wife agrees on this.
• Basement: to be built, what is the ideal size for a dedicated music room?

I auditioned B&W CM9, MartinLogan, and Def Tech BP8040 at BestBuy; liked the B&W very much.

So my question is: Can you build a simple cheap near audiophile system for me, new or used?

Thank you very much.

[Big Red Machine]

PM me your phone number and I'll unload some ideas on you.

[roscoeiii]

I do like the Emotiva equipment, and they have a fabulous trial period. If you want to stick with your largely Emotiva set-up, I'd recommend waiting for the XDA-1 DAC that is coming out soon ($299), and getting a CD or DVD player (even a cheap one for starters) with a digital out to play with it. Emotiva says that their DAC has better sound quality than the CD player, and the DAC will give you the flexibility to use multiple digital inputs (say from a cable box, PlayStation, etc) and even input from a computer (via USB). DACs are mighty hot these days, and are where the digital action seems to be.

As for speakers and amps, I'd suggest settling on speakers FIRST, then looking at an amp that would be a good match. I can't speak to the speakers you listed there, but I am sure others can. If you feel like this may be your last system (famous last words...), I'd try to hear as many types of speakers as you can so that you can get a better feel for your preferred sound. If audio stores in your area are lacking, maybe see if you can find other audio folks who would be willing to let you listen to your system. Or look into some of the speaker companies with a trial period...

[fwguo]

Thanks for the DAC recommendation. Definitely I can wait; this will be a long time project. So you are saying with a DAC, any CD player with digital out will do with the same quality? So I should add the fifth type of equipment to my shopping list

• DAC: such as XDA-1

I mentioned Emotiva in my original post only because it is the only brand I know (from reading forums) that has low prices, especially ERC-1 is often praised as bang for the money. But I am open to any brand, so please recommend more "bang for the money" products to my shopping list, new or used, any brand.

[roscoeiii]

No, not all digital outputs of CD players will be of equal quality. But the DAC makes a bigger difference in my opinion. Look for CD players that have low jitter from their digital outputs. Most audio reviews will mention the jitter of a digital output. But you can get a good enough CD player (or what is referred to as a CD transport, which cannot play without attaching an external DAC) for pretty cheap generally. One brand that plays DVDs and CD and about any audio format that is generally regarded as a good bargain is Oppo.

[roscoeiii]

Or if you want super-simple, check out the Auranote for sale here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=86568.msg848366;topicseen#new

(no affiliation with seller, though our taste in audio equipment does overlap)

 and read some of the reviews. Though it's power may well then constrain your speaker choices. And I'd make speakers #1 priority.

[lonewolfny42]

If you want to keep it simple....and within budget...I'd suggest an integrated amp.

This is a good one....link...

My thought is: though this is my first system, I hope it will also be my last one, since I don't think I have much time for it.

Then make sure you listen to everything before you purchase it...good luck.

You might also check the Cheap and Cheerful circle for budget ideas...

[Mariusz]

Features:
Philips VAM-12 laser with CD-7II servo system for low jitter
Burr-Brown PCM-1794 DAC
Burr-Brown op-amps
High-quality FM tuner with 40 presets
Built-in iPod dock (iPod not included)
Valve headphone output (2x 6N3P valves)
Three additional line-level inputs
Valve pre-amp stage (2x 6N3P valves)
Pre-out allows connection to an outboard amplifier
Coaxial digital out for CD
Coaxial iPod video out (depends on actual iPod used)
Volume control and input selector discretely incorporated in to the the front pillars
High quality remote control handset (iPod compatible)
All aluminium chassis with internal screening




Specifications:
2x 60W RMS (8 Ohms) power output
Frequency Response: 10 Hz - 50 kHz (-1 dB)
Distortion: Less than 0.1%
Signal to Noise Ratio: Greater than 90dB
FM Tuner: 87.5 MHz - 108.0 MHz
FM Sensitivity: 1.5uV / 75 Ohm
FM Stereo Separation: 35dB (1kHz)


A bit pricey ( $1500 used on Agon - cheaper from china direct) but it has everything one might need: tube preamp and headphone amp, SS amp section, iPod dock, CD player, radio and looks. Used might be in your price range. If not, check out Cheap and Cheerful for some budget components or dig around.
However, I would concentrate first on speakers/amp choice and match/synergy. Everything else is secondary after you get that sorted out. I usually recommend easy to drive speakers which can be driven with few good watts. Check out Tekton, Zu, GR kits, Omega for great speaker choices at reasonable prices. Then look for amp that works best (within your budget) with your top choice speakers.
Have fun and be prepered to make mistakes. (like 99.9% of us)

Best
Mariusz

[Tyson]

Spend most of your money on a good source and good speakers.  These two things have the largest impact on the sound of a system.  Oh, and use tubes as much as possible.

[JLM]

Great suggestions!!

I own the original Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s and love them.  The cheap vinyl finish is their weak point, but content value is extreme, imaging is unreal, and tone is great.  The Sierra should only be better all the way around with deeper bass and better looks.

I own one of the early Oppo universal players and its stupid good for the money.  Again their current offerings should only be much better.

A couple of other options for integrated amps is Maverick Audio (compact 20 wpc at 8 ohms tubed integrated amp with headphone output, gold plated connectors, and detactable power cord for $200), NAD (several to pick from starting at $350, these guys "invented" audiophile value in integrateds) and Redgum Sonofa'GUM SG5500 (the $600, 60 wpc smaller/Chinese built version of their very well respected stuff).

[Mitsuman]

Is there any way you would consider vintage? 

[raindance]

You like warm - Vandersteen 1C speakers. Should be a great match with the Emotiva gear which is on the cold side of neutral. Note, warm usually refers to a slight roll-off in the highs and a bump in the midbass. Cold usually refers to extended top end, tight bass (no bump) and can be fatiguing on the ears. Warm and detailed is hard to do unless you get very expensive tube gear.

If you want to go with tubes, a cheap tube amp won't keep you happy for long and you'd be better off with a NAD integrated. Even a smallish NAD would give more punch than a cheap tube amp. Also, cheap tube amps don't come with remotes.

The NAD amp would add some warmth and might be a good match with the B&W speakers that are pretty bright with other electronics.

Some Marantz solid state gear is also warmish sounding. Not all, you have to listen first.

You can always add a DAC to your CD player later. Personally I like a universal player so you have the option to try SACD or DVD-Audio as well as red book CD.

[cujobob]

You're considering up to the Salk HT3 price range?  Gedlee Abbeys with a couple of inexpensive subs would make for a great system.  A system so efficient and resolving you wouldn't need to spend huge bucks on amplification or source.  The Nathans are also great at a bit less.

At even less, I'd look for some GR-Research speakers built out by a cabinet builder.

For electronics, it really will depend on the speakers and budget.

[HT cOz]

In addition to your excellent list I would consider this:
Speakers Tyler Acoustics -> Call Ty to get an idea of cost
Source Logitech Touch
Amp Virtue Audio or Class D Kit

Simple, Cost Effective, Excellent

[JoshK]

Spend most of your money on a good source and good speakers.  These two things have the largest impact on the sound of a system.  Oh, and use tubes as much as possible.

I'd almost agree with this, except that I think it is mostly all speakers and room setup and the rest everything else.  I love tubes too but that will blow the budget for anything quality.   I just haven't found a great big difference in digital front ends.  Yes there is a difference, but its not in the same scale as speakers IMHO.

If it were my $, get the best speakers you absolutely can (from your list I'd opt for the Salks, but check AudioKinesis's offerings too) and do whatever you need to for the electronics to get you by, with an eye on upgrading the electronics in time after you have grown accustom to the speakers your going to live with for a long while.

[JoshK]

You're considering up to the Salk HT3 price range?  Gedlee Abbeys with a couple of inexpensive subs would make for a great system.  A system so efficient and resolving you wouldn't need to spend huge bucks on amplification or source.  The Nathans are also great at a bit less.

Yes indeed.  I agree with this.  Geddes's Summa HT with a $600 receiver and an inexpensive DVD player still kicked the ass of any system at any price I've heard to date.

[JLM]

Oh, about the room...

We have an acoustics circle here.   

Lots of theories out there.   

Any room you have to share can suck (if you can listen when you want to what you want at the volume with the room furnished as you want, please disregard this comment).   

An 11 ft x 11 ft room would suck acoustically (any square room will emphasize reflections).   

Check out Cardas for one of the sets of theories.  I built my basement listening room using his room size, and speaker/listening positions and am very pleased.  The sound really comes into focus in "the chair" and the room seems to have little effect on the sound (I need to sell/dump my acoustical panels).  Remember size matters and the bigger the better.

[Mitsuman]

I'm going to take that as a "NO." 

[fwguo]

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions!

I'd like to clarify my needs. Originally I said I wanted a "simple" system, so many of you recommended integrated. Perhaps "basic" is a better word. Another thing I want to clarify is the budget. I understand it's hard to make recommendations without a budget. Honestly, I don't know my budget yet, since I don't know how much is needed for a decent system. And one purpose of this research is to propose a budget to my wife. After receiving your suggestions, I did more research and thought $5k to 6k perhaps is a good bet. I plan to distribute it as such:

• Speakers $2k
• Amp $1k
• Preamp $1k
• DAC $1k
• Source $400: universal player CD, DVD-audio, SACD, USB (for computer)

Again, many of you advised to choose the speaker first, then we can choose pre/amp. Now, I am leaning to salk SongTower for $1900. For others, I am thinking of Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1 $1k and used oppo-83 (or 83se).

Some other comments:

• Room: I definitely will take Cardas dimensions when I finish the basement. Above, I have a living room with 33L x 15W x 18H; this should be my first choice, comparing to the 20x17 family room (second choice) and the 11x11 office.
• Integrated: perhaps it will be a good idea to use one integrate around my computer in the 11x11 office, with the Tweek City Audio WAF-1 that I recently bought.
• vintage: my understanding is vintage good speaker is still good, but vintage electronics is no good.

[roscoeiii]

The Wyred4Sound DAC seems like it would be a good choice. If you are using a DAC, no need to get the 83SE, since its improvements are in the Oppo's internal DAC chip which you wouldn't be using since you'd have the DAC.