[charmerci]

I think though that these big sound systems will be worthless in the future. Everything is eventually going virtual reality. Why even buy a Lamborghini when you won't be able to distinguish the sensations between a virtual reality game and the real thing?

[undertow]

EXACTLY! Which was the real point of the thread?

What happened to Hi-fi? Is that the name of this thread?

And anyway more to your point, lets put it this way Audio Research can charge 15,000 for a stereo tube preamp, but does that mean that the technology, and functions, and actually even more advanced costs to design a Sony $300.00 7 channel receiver, or HDTV should not be equal?

You get where I am going with this correct? Audio Research does NOT in fact spend more to build or package those products accept they are in a very niche market, and yes built in the U.S. vs. China... So there are some costs involved, but going based on materials, storage, work force etc... Guaranteed it can be done to a much more REASONABLE degree than 15000 dollar price increase.

I am not comparing the audiophile marketing, and or tube technology here, I am making a simple point. Value is very real, sure maybe 4000 for a preamp? Maybe, 5000? But you will have a hard time surviving into the future when the market starts going away and of course Apple, sony, etc... not made or designed like Audio Research will in fact still get the job done for the next generation.

So something will have to happen. Mostly why the used market thrives.

[charmerci]

Yes but if the first customers said "I refuse to buy $2000/$1000 cell phones" and no one bought them, we wouldn't have $10 models either.

[MJK]

Lets be brutally honest.

Most young people (actually most people but youth is the future) don't care about audio equipment. They listen to music but do not spend money on equipment. They do not buy records or CDs, they download music (free if possible) to their phones or computers and listen using headphones or a blue tooth speaker. That is all thay want.

The world is changing and certain things we value as old farts are dying

Newspapers
Magazines
Books and Libraries
Cable TV
Live music performances
Audio

just to name a few. It is not economy or disposable income, it is lack of interest.

[undertow]

Oh I agree...

But put this in perspective again I am very on point talking SPECIFICALLY about high end audio here. It has been around no question, and it is changing, no question.

You could not do MP3s on your phone until really about 10 years ago to any realistic degree, or any of the other functions now provided. By the way I will never pay 600 for an Iphone, never owned one, and could care less I get all the same done with a base smartphone, computer, tablet and all else around me.

Also, I don't know that a $2000 dollar smartphone ever existed, but unless it was that cutting edge and came out 10 years ago not sure who was buying it.

As for now this industry is trying to capitalize on very small adjustments, and trying to justify somehow that charging more for the base products and services will allow this to operate.

Last generation might be hung up on big silver face plates, and glowing tubes, with piano finishes. So would the next, but the prices will have to come down to reality.

They will not justify buying a single 2 channel amp for 10,000 over a new smart "Dishwasher", Fridge, and 80" 4K tv combined for the same price, and they use them every single day...

That is sorta the whole point..

Remember Wadia? The best in high end digital before my time where they were selling I think even 30,000 dollar DACS back in the 90's!

Would they survive today? They don't, they were bought by somebody and changed the whole product line to work with Apple Ipods and more mainstream gear...

And guess what they started building even better technology, but for prices ranging from 300 and up,,,, Not 3000 starting! They would not make it today.

So here we are right back where we started -

What happened to Hi-Fi?

[CanadianMaestro]

I think though that these big sound systems will be worthless in the future. Everything is eventually going virtual reality. Why even buy a Lamborghini when you won't be able to distinguish the sensations between a virtual reality game and the real thing?

....because a car gets me from A to B, to run errands. Something VR can never do. 

[srb]

So here we are right back where we started -
What happened to Hi-Fi?

Young people looked to the audio forums to see what all the fuss was about High Fidelity and discovered people were engineering social get-togethers to compare cables, power cords and cable elevators - and got bored to death.

[CanadianMaestro]

One real cause of HiFi's demise: big credibility gap -- too much snake oils -- fancy cables, outrageous claims. The magazines (e.g. TAS) are also to blame.

[undertow]

Young people looked to the audio forums to see what all the fuss was about High Fidelity and discovered people were engineering social get-togethers to compare cables, power cords and cable elevators - and got bored to death.

This is possible... I will one up on this.

Fact is you do need to cut out "Time" for this activity. Today that is very difficult.

From personal experience I am in this whole millennial generation shift in which a lot of focus on going to work for many hours with less wages, along with bigger costs in everything, and continuously needing to come up with experience on a resume showing 14 years in nuclear science, with degrees in everything from Human resources, to Aerospace management just to work as a outside sales person that basically answers emails all day!

But once you figure out the time to do such things which is the easy part, most people now have to have roommates, and / or live in very small places.

Guess what? You can't put 5.5 ft tall speakers, blasting at 100 db volumes anytime of the day let alone when you actually get a chance too.

So I see the bigger challenge in the way we are packing population in tighter and tighter with less resources for reasonable pricing. In turn the proper environment to even do this is dwindling more and more today than 20 years ago.

Almost unless you come up with a dedicated space at home your going to be on Headphones, or listing on your phone at the gym so that is the extent of most peoples "Audiophile" experience today.

[charmerci]

....because a car gets me from A to B, to run errands. Something VR can never do. 

Please let me know when you're going to take your Lambo out to run errands. I want to be off the streets while you're zooming down at 150 mph!

[MJK]

My children (well educated and gainfully employed) will spend whatever it costs to get the latest phone. It is how they interact with the people and the world around them. It is where they get the news, where the music comes from, how they find potential partners, it is with them and on 24/7 as they go about life. I have almost never heard them take a call and talk on the phone. They do not own or want a TV. They don't carry cash, they swipe (and will not do business with somebody who wants only cash). It is beyond my comprehension.

I consider my kids very mainstream, typical of he young engineers in my office. Next time you are out among people look around to see how many are on their phones. I have seen couples in a restaurant on a date and they are both focused and interacting with their phones and not with each other. If the opposite sex cannot get you to look up from your phone what chance do you think an audio system has of becoming important.

Think the audio and music business is struggling now, project what you see around you ten years out into the future.

[CanadianMaestro]

Please let me know when you're going to take your Lambo out to run errands. I want to be off the streets while you're zooming down at 150 mph!

...I don't own a Lambo.   

[charmerci]

I have seen couples in a restaurant on a date and they are both focused and interacting with their phones and not with each other. If the opposite sex cannot get you to look up from your phone what chance do you think an audio system has of becoming important.

Maybe they're married! 

[macrojack]

My children (well educated and gainfully employed) will spend whatever it costs to get the latest phone. It is how they interact with the people and the world around them. It is where they get the news, where the music comes from, how they find potential partners, it is with them and on 24/7 as they go about life. I have almost never heard them take a call and talk on the phone. They do not own or want a TV. They don't carry cash, they swipe (and will not do business with somebody who wants only cash). It is beyond my comprehension.

I consider my kids very mainstream, typical of he young engineers in my office. Next time you are out among people look around to see how many are on their phones. I have seen couples in a restaurant on a date and they are both focused and interacting with their phones and not with each other. If the opposite sex cannot get you to look up from your phone what chance do you think an audio system has of becoming important.

Think the audio and music business is struggling now, project what you see around you ten years out into the future.

This comment wins the day.

[WGH]

I have almost never heard them take a call and talk on the phone.

I have started telling people the upcoming iPhone 8 will no longer make or receive voice phone calls.

[macrojack]

In reference to the kids using their phones for everything, I had a millennial inform me recently that not only do young people not have checking accounts, they don't even know the physical location of their bank.

I'm not ready for the brave new world. That said, I seldom write a check anymore. My purchases are paid with a credit card that, along with all my other bills, is paid online.

[srb]

I have seen couples in a restaurant on a date and they are both focused and interacting with their phones and not with each other.

Apply that to quality family time.  Let's watch a movie!  Everyone put on their headsets and VR goggles!  Now not only do we not have to talk to each other, we don't even have to look at each other either!

And there's no better quality time than visiting Grandma .....

 

Steve

[MJK]

My daughter went to a technical conference in New Orleans last spring. I took her to the airport and picked her up when she came back. After I dropped her off at the curb, being a good concerned Dad, I wondered how much money she took with her.

When she came back 4 days later I asked her how much money she took. Her reply $10. WHAT! You went to New Orleans for four days with only $10? Her response.

1. I had my phone and debit card.
2. As a group of 10-20 young professionals they went out to dinner and then some night life, if the place did not accept debit cards they walked out.
3. One person would pay and then they all used their phones to wire money to reimburse the payer.

She came home with $10.

[charmerci]

Apply that to quality family time.  Let's watch a movie!  Everyone put on their headsets and VR goggles!  Now not only do we not have to talk to each other, we don't even have to look at each other either!


Steve

But they are working on MR - mixed reality. Objects placed in your field of vision where you are, like a VR vase on table at home  - also, people from somewhere else will be able to place flowers in your VR vase. You'll eventually interact with anyone in the world without looking down at a screen.

https://www.wired.com/2016/04/magic-leap-vr/

[CanadianMaestro]

My daughter went to a technical conference in New Orleans last spring. I took her to the airport and picked her up when she came back. After I dropped her off at the curb, being a good concerned Dad, I wondered how much money she took with her.

When she came back 4 days later I asked her how much money she took. Her reply $10. WHAT! You went to New Orleans for four days with only $10? Her response.

1. I had my phone and debit card.
2. As a group of 10-20 young professionals they went out to dinner and then some night life, if the place did not accept debit cards they walked out.
3. One person would pay and then they all used their phones to wire money to reimburse the payer.

She came home with $10.

I have no problem with this. If I lose ca$h it's gone for good, irreplaceable. Lose a card? One phone call, it's cancelled and quickly replaced. Even when travelling. 

Electronics = more convenience. Better always? That's a personal choice.