[Minn Mark]

Excited that Frank should get my Insight EC preamp for upgrading to the new Vision phono circuits today !!   Looking forwqard to sharing my impressions once returned.  In the meantime, I'm pressing into service my old (1980) SAE 2900. What a difference (very flat-no air) from my Insight phono. Can't wait for the upgraded unit to arrive.  More later...
 

Mark

[Wayner]

Hope you like it.

Wayner

[charmerci]

Excited that Frank should get my Insight EC preamp for upgrading to the new Vision phono circuits today !!   Looking forwqard to sharing my impressions once returned.  In the meantime, I'm pressing into service my old (1980) SAE 2900. What a difference (very flat-no air) from my Insight phono. Can't wait for the upgraded unit to arrive.  More later...
 

Mark

Wow! I had to look it up - but I had that exact same 2900 in the late, late 70's! I had forgotten all about it. My brother wanted me to buy it because of the parametric equalizer. Certainly fun to play around with the sliders! Memories. 

[Minn Mark]

My preamp arrived back from AVA on Monday evening. In addition to the new Vision phono, Frank updated my tone controls, etc to Insight + status.  I did not critically listen, but my first impressions of the Vision phono versus my previous Insight phono are:

1) the Vision is MUCH quieter.  Now, I thought my Insight phono was quiet (never perceived a problem with extraneous/extra noise), but WOW (you'll see me use this word a lot) the updated preamp as a whole is much quieter.

2) Instruments, soundstage, in general everything is LARGER.  I have a VPI Classic I with a Sumiko Blackbird HOMC  is several years old.  The rest of my system is composed of a AVA Insight 440H and Magnepan 3.6R's.  I view it as very 'revealing', due in part to the AVA's ability IMHO to point out good vs less-than-good recordings, matters not the media (I also use a AVA Insight DAC for CDs).   On Blue Note reissue LPs (Larry Young Unity), the mix is now more broadly approached and to my ears sounds much more cohesive, versus a more old-style left-right mix from a a stereo or a mono master.  On Bill Evans' Waltz for Debby, the opening cut  My Foolish Heart brings one into the venue (recorded live). With the Vision phono and the system as a whole, I was brought much MORE into the venue. I love this recording's ambient noise (people speaking, glasses clinking- it unnerves my dog as he looks for these extra folks in my listening room). With the Vision phono I was more THERE, than before (WOW). Additionally, on this first track, Paul Motian uses brushes on the snare. With the Insight phono, I wondered a lit at first what this "noise' was; it took my 55 yo ears to identify it as a brushed snare. Afterwards, whenever I listen to this LP, I reminded myself this is a brushed snare, so I could enjoy the music. With the Vision phono, I not only knew immediately it is a brushed snare drum, I could HEAR the volume of the air inside the snare, and the subtle changes in pressure Paul was applying to the drum head via the brush. Amazing, and....WOW.

3) Less than stellar recordings still sound thus. I picked up the two disc reissue of Metallica's eponymous 1991 album. This recoding always sounded 'hot' to me, lots of zippy high end. With the previous Insight phono, I could localize the drum kit pretty well. With the Vision phono, in my system, the drums are now more integrated into the mix; cymbals sound great and are much larger in presentation.  On this quick listen, it seems for this recording the Vision presents a more cohesive and integrated soundstage, but one that for me has lost a bit of the precise instrument placement. Just my first impression; I don't listen to this album a lot.  Presentation of the soundstage is overall more coherent. The Maggies have a definite sweetspot, and you who own them know they are 'beamy'.  With the Vision phono, I could immediately perceive much more lee-way in where my head/ears were located relative to the speakers, and mush  more forgiving if I moved my listenting position. This is a big change from what i was used to. I'll have to listen a lot more and let you know what I think.   
 
4) While my Insight pre-amp was at AVA, I was listening to vinyl via swapping an vintage (ca 1980) SAE 2900 preamp. The SAE have a MM phono stage and I listen mostly without using tome control, loudness contours, etc.  When swapped in, I could tell an immediate difference versus my Insight phono. Instrument timbres were fundamentally 'right', but the presentation had no air and was very 'flat'. With the Vision phono, as I mentioned earlier, everything is presented LARGER. Cymbals are huge; the fundamental instrument timbre is there, along with a lot more air. The high-end is very extended, more than enough for my taste, and subtleties in the mix, such as when a sax player steps closer to or farther away from the mic, are a lot more clearly apparent with the Vision phono versus the Insight.

5) I didn't listen to any Cd's last evening, but I have a few LP+CD sets which I can use to compare. On this quick assessment, It sounds to my ears that in the Vision phono Frank has with LP approached the sound of CDs through the Insight DAC.

One issue that I do have that honestly has been problematic for me is that, in my area, I have no other good quality "high-end" or 'reference' systems to listen to. My friends are not into audio, thus, for many years the only systems I've heard are my own (not attended RMAF or other shows).  It would be an advantage for me to hear some of the recordings I'll talk about, in another system.

That's it for now. I will give this 'new' system some dedicated, critical listening and post more impressions.

THANKS FRANK- for the quick turnaround (1 week including the shipping) and the much needed updates to the rest of the preamp circuitry.  Frank also fixed an issue with my balance control; works flawlessly now.

Happy Holidays,
   
Mark  (@home in Rochester, MN).

[Listens2tubes]

I'm guessing https://sites.google.com/site/audiosocietyofminnesota/ is not near enough for a listen?

[Minn Mark]

Spent a little time seriously listening to the new Vision phono this weekend. My initial impression still holds: this phono stage is extremely QUIET.  I didn’t think my previous Insight phono circuit was at all noisy, but the soundstage now emerges from a dead quiet, unless I’m really pushing the volume and then will hear some groove noise.  I find myself listening at higher volume levels than previously and I attribute this ability to push to louder levels in the extreme quietness of the circuitry. Also, as I inclined before, the Vision phono is very accurate. Therefore, poor recordings sound as such, even more revealing than the Insight phono was.  I recently received a bundle from POPMarket-three albums by the Tedeschi Trucks Band. I listened to LP1-side one using my VPI/Sumiko Blackbird/Vision path, while for LP2-side three I cued up on my SOTA Comet/Ortofon 2MRed/ Esoteric Sounds MM phono into a Spare input on the Insight pre-amp. This album (Revelator) is recorded very well, and sounded so using either TT. The Vision really let Susan’s vocal shine, but did alert me even more than with the previous Insight phono, that my room gives me a slightly tubby mid-bass presentation. Occasionally, her female voice was a bit thick.  The SOTA/Ortofon/ES chain into the preamp sounds nice, but not near what the VPI/Blackbird/Vision is capable of presenting from a well recorded disc.
I next dove into side one of Donald Fagan’s Morph the Cat, using the Vision. Amazingly well recorded. Huge soundstage, with instruments were well placed and precise. Drums and bass coexisting very well. Pushed to pretty loud level with no straining from the system at all (driving Maggie 3.6Rs with AVA Insight 440H).
Back to some classics: I compared Rockpile’s Seconds of Pleasure via the Vision alongside Graham Parker’s  Mona Lisa’s Sister on the SOTA. The Vision showed me this original 80’s pressing of Rockpile is not so great. Some distorted high levels, but I can look past this to enjoy the music. Tightly focused image between the speakers and not a lot of work went into making an interesting mix.  The GP Mona Lisa sounded as it always does through the SOTA. I flipped this disc onto the VPI and listened a bit with the Vision….there, that’s better. Very well recorded and the Vision brings through all the best aspects of this recording.
Have not yet compared some LP+CD using my Insight DAC, but will cue those up soon.  Assorted  jazz LPs played for background via the Vision sounded great. Overall, my upgraded pre-amp works flawlessly: switches are quiet, updated tome controls are fantastic although I don’t use them lots.  The Vision is so much more revealing of poor quality LPs, I may find myself tweaking using the tone circuits more in the future.

More later,   

Mark

[Minn Mark]

Listened to two new acquisitions last night.

First up: Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay.  This is a reissue of the CTI recroding date.  The overall sound through my system (VPI Classic+Sumiko Blackbird with the AVA Vision MM RIAA phono in my AVA Insight+ preamp driving Maggie 3.6Rs with AVA Insight 440H, cables by Blue Jeans (TT to pre), Kimber Hero (preamp to amp). Speakers are biwired with 12ga Parts Express speaker cable) is just awesome. I had not heard this recording in my system before, but I mainly listen to vinyl. With the Vision phono the background is dead quiet. The soundstage then explodes, very coherent. Instrument positions are accurate and stable.  Dynamic range seems much more extended to my ears versus my other phono preamp (Rec-O-Kut MM) or previous Insight phono.

Next dose: Sonny Rollins' The Bridge . This is a new 180g 'budget' reissue ($14 from Soundstage Direct). Again, the playback system in total delivered a very quiet background. The recorded sax was very real- not 'in the room' real, but very well presented. Dynamics were just the way I like them: real, not overblown. Jim Hall's jazz guitar work on the LP is excellent (I'm a guitar player), and is recorded well. The soundstage is coherent and I can push the volume as high as I like with no strain.

From my posts you can tell I'm a (long time) fan of AVA. The new Vision phono is very revealing. In a transparent system the user will glean information very accurately from vinyl- if you want romantic, tubby, flat, bloated presentations this is not for you. Neither is it overly analytical or dry. In fact, I think the Vision phono is better at presenting the 'real' sound of recorded instruments and vocals than the previous Insight MM phono, which I owned as was very happy with.

I'm not rich by any stretch but I'm fortunate to have some cash to devote to my hobby. This Vision phono is silly good for the money.  You can;t go wrong with the reputation for AVA: every product I've ever owned has been rock solid.  Bu then this is the AVA circle.

Spread the word- if you're into vinyl or getting into it, give the AVA Vision phono (MM or MC) a serious consideration.

Thanks, Frank for the great products.

Happy Holidays,

Mark

[Minn Mark]

After several more evenings spent with the new Vision phono circuits in my Insight+ pre-amp (upgraded from Insight phono) I continue to be very happy with the perfromance of Frank's new (old) split passive design. Not to bore you, but the immediate, amazing character of this phono preamp is how quiet it is. Images are rock sold, emerging from an inky black background. I can truly appreciate what writers in TAS, Stereophile mean when they comment about a component's 'quiet' character.  I keep my records in the best shape I can, with a vacuum machine and regular dry swiping with an antistat brush and use a zerstat before each play.  I would challenge listeners to know I'm listening to LP-unless thay happen to catch a whiff of groove noise between cuts. Dynamic range is huge. Instruments, vocal, everything is presented in a 'larger' way with the Vision versus my previous Insight.  As with the Insight phono, the Vision is very accurate: I listened to a new copy of Donald Byrd's Modern Jazz Perspective (LION WAX L61459, 180g vinyl), and I can definitiely hear the occasional microphone distortion of these vinatge recordings, esp on the voals on this LP. My system overall, IMHO is very transparent and, I think, accurate (AVA SS gear, and Magnaplanar 3.6 ).  The Vision phono will show you when a recoridng is a great one, and certainly when it's less-than-great.  That being said, it's also very musical- I've been happy with my AVA elctronics for years: I had Omega series components for about 10 years before upgrading  to Insight, now upgraded preamp to Insight+ with the Vision phono. Whether it's casual or serious listening, my system always draws me into the music. Sometimes I will focus on the shortcomings of a recording- that's the transparent accuracy I like, but that for me in no way takes away from the enjoyment--unless its REALLY BAD !  I expect we've all got a few of those selections in our collections !  I still haven't spun ay classical (orchestral), as I don't listen to that genre much. I do however listen to classical guitar, and I am very pleased with the Vision phono's presentation of Andrew York's gorgeous guitars on his recent LP, Yamour.  Andrew's classical guitar is very technically correct but he is also very expressive; the Vision phono places him correctly between the speakers, and as a player myself it's very clear when he plucks the strings nearer the fingerboard versus nearer the bridge. Dynamic swings with his guitar are clear and add to the enjoyment of listening to his modern compositions for the nylon stringed guitar.
For  the money as an add-on to your existing equipment,or even as an outboard separate, the Vision phono is well worth your time and money. Crazy good for the money in fact ( I'm listening to the MM version I should point out).
Highly recommended and worth serious consideration.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, and Happy Listening,

Mark   

[Minn Mark]

Hello All,

After having lived for over six months with the new MM Vision phono preamplifier circuits installed by Frank in my AVA Insight+ EC preamplifier, I want to share some additional comments.

In simplest terms I continue to be very happy with this phono section.  My previous impressions continue to be evidenced these months later. The circuits are dead quiet. The dynamic range is extended and smooth. Timbrel character of horns, brass, cymbals, acoustic bass, guitars, etc etc is spot on.  Voices, male or female, are very accurately presented, with a smooth character, and not at all harsh.  The Vision MM phono throws a soundstage that is wide and deep. I don't have lots of other experience to compare against. The combination of my components (AVA Insight 440H, Insight+EC pre w/ Vision, VPI Classic+ Sumiko Blackbird, Maggie 3.6/R) is very synergistic in my room. I don't use any room treatments or bass trapping/enhancement.  The tweeters on my speakers are on the inside of the mirror imaged pair. I listen to all sorts of music, mostly Blue Note LP jazz.  I can tell you that the 45rpm sets of Blue Note performers from either Music Matters or Analogue productions sound phenomenal with this phono stage. Lots of dynamics, quiet backgrounds, plenty of air. The soundstage is well presented but not perhaps as etched or holographic as phono setups costing tens of thousands of dollars. It is 'cohesive', which makes for an impression that you really can sense the musicians in the same acoustical environment playing together, and reacting to one another.  Blissful. Another crazy good recording using my system is the 33rpm version of Lorna Hunt's All in One Day. Wow. What a great performance can be captured in the hands of talented recording engineers.

For the money,as an internal phono preamplifier, or even as an external add-on, I don't see how one could go wrong using the AVA Vision phono. 

Would love to see impressions of an ACer who is using the MC version. Got to be at least as good, maybe better?

Cheers,   

Mark

[missouricatman]

Hi Mark and hello from the Kansas City area!

I've been reading postings on AudioCircle as a nonmember for a few days now, specifically to learn more about Frank's Vision phono, but also to get a feel for how others feel about working with Frank himself.  Seems both Frank and the equipment he and his crew put out are pretty highly regarded and I'm very happy to hear that.  I've read Frank's own comments about his business philosophy (exchanged a brief email or two with him also) and it certainly does sound like you and others confirm that he does business just the way he says he does.  I'm retired now, but part of what I did was advertising & marketing, so I certainly know words are one thing, deeds another.

Your comments about the Vision as installed in the preamplifier have been very helpful to me, particularly as I'm wrestling with whether to get the standalone Vision or an Insight + with the Vision card installed. I'm planning on calling Frank tomorrow (Monday) and asking if the standalone version is even quieter (is isolation/distance from power supply different - does that in the real world end up mattering?) as well as getting a handle on how the RCA jacks are secured to the chassis & where they're located.  I just haven't seen a photo of the back of the standalone Vision or the internal layout of it. While location is more a matter of curiosity, if I were to go that route instead of the Insight + the fact that I'm using an Apogee Duet II to digitize vinyl means I might be forced to constantly swap cables on the outputs - something honestly I'd rather not do anyway.

Mark, my system pales in comparison to yours.  One day I'll get the Thorens TD-124/II rebuilt, but for now it's a Dual 1219 with Shure V15III outfitted with a JICO SAS stylus.  The phono stage I've been using is the one in my Sansui AU-719 and while it's not bad, the Sansui needs to be put to use in the basement system anyway.  My thought was once I get my mind made up on which iteration of the Vision would work best for me, it might be helpful to others for me to post a bit about my experiences using it for recording purposes & comparing it to the Sansui's phono stage.  What do you think?

Jim Neal

[missouricatman]

I spoke with Frank this morning, got my questions answered, and ordered an Insight + EC with the adjustable phono stage.  Looking forward to getting it in 2-3 weeks.

[Minn Mark]

Missouricatman,

Congraulations !  I think you will be very happy and surprised at the performance you are getting in a compact, rock-sold unit.  My Insight  preamp started out life as an earlier model, and was upgraded, so Ive had it for many years and  it's always worked flawlessly. I enjoy using the tone controls when I need to, but I mainly listen with them bypassed. I also use the external processor loop function to put an older EQ and a SAE 5000 pop/click reducer into the chain when I want to use that. What a great feature.  I have the remote, but sit close enough to the unit I dont find myself using it much but it works great. The controls are quiet and I think its a great synergy with the AVA power amp I have.

Please post your impressions,  and welcome to the AVA family !

Mark

[missouricatman]

Evening Mark,

The remote - well Frank asked me about it and my response was I can still get out of a chair and certainly need the exercise. I've heard of the pop/click reducer you've got, but never experienced one.

I'll certainly post my reaction to the Insight +.  Honestly, it's been a long time since I bought anything new, so really looking forward to it.

Jim

[missouricatman]

My Van Alstine Insight + EC Preamplifier arrived this afternoon.  While I won't have time today to set it up, let alone run the comparison tests I've planned (Sansui AU-719 phono stage in particular). I do want to pass along my first impressions.

First, the time from order placement to delivery was well within the 2-3 weeks Frank Van Alstine promised.  I do appreciate that.

The shipping box was solid, but devoid of any fancy logos, etc., which based on what little I know of Frank, was exactly what I expected.  Printing on shipping cartons is pretty, but unless you ship by the thousands, an unnecessary expense in my opinion.

On the other hand, the dense foam support structure, the part that really matters in shipping, protected the unit very convincingly. By suspending it in the box with material that could itself provide a bit of damping, nothing short of a sharp object thrust 2" into the shipping carton (more than 2" from most angles) could ever touch the preamplifier.    I've not seen this particular packing material before, but have seen similar support structures made out of styrofoam.  Both can work well, but I certainly prefer Van Alstine's dense foam to styrofoam.

The preamplifier was further protected by being enclosed in a heavy poly bag, thicker by quite a bit than bags used on most consumer grade gear I've purchased.

Sitting on top of the unit, so I could hardly miss it, was a plastic bag that included nine pages of easily readable material.  "Easily readable" to me means use of point sizes that don't make me put the page six inches from my nose, double-spacing between segments, bold face for sub heads, and last but not least, a good understanding of the english language. The Van Alstine materials score high on all counts.

Six pages outline general operating and set-up instructions, two detail the adjustable phono section, while the last page is the transferable limited three-year warranty. 

I admit that when I was reviewing information on the Van Alstine web site, I looked specifically for this level of detail, but never found it.  Perhaps it's there somewhere.  My general impression as I skimmed the pages was that I'd actually bought a preamplifier with a bit more capability than I'd realized. The marketing part of me had to wonder if I (and others) might have found it easier to hit the buy button if this level of detail were front and center - but I digress.

Next to the documentation bag was a bag holding the 6' power cord.

Fit and finish of the preamplifier is, if anything, better than the impression I got from the web site photos. This surprised me a bit, so  I went back and reviewed the photos.  Sure enough, the casing's very sophisticated (IMO) texture just doesn't read in the photos.  Neither does the subtly brushed faceplate.  I was expecting a matte black faceplate like my Sansui's, but I like this look just a tad bit more.  The online photos do show a bit of the light refraction the knobs create, but in reality, there too, there's more going on than you can see in the photos.

In other words, while the impression I got of Frank is of someone who is much more into function than form, he did put a decent amount of attention into the look of the thing.

Tomorrow I'll see if I can stage the preamplifier and get a couple of shots to upload here. Hopefully I'll be able to get the time to actually set it up!

 

[Minn Mark]

Congrats on your purchase. Can't wait to hear your impressions !

Mark

[tipatina]

I've just sent my preamp to AVA for an upgrade to the new phono circuit. I was not at all unhappy with previous generation phono stage but based on Frank's description and the detailed review and followup in this thread I decided to pull the trigger.

[mresseguie]

Hello, Jim.

I, too, look forward to your impressions once you get the preamp set up in your system. I'm still using an integrated amp in my main system, but I can foresee a time where I will go for separates.

Michael

[missouricatman]

Here are some quick shots taken this morning with the iPhone 5s.

[missouricatman]

In preparation for my comparison of the AVA Insight + EC to the Sansui AU-719 integrated amp phono stage, I’ve made a rough cut of the albums I plan on working with, all disks I know well. While I’ll let my ears do the talking (there’s some sense there I’m sure), my intention is to also record each track using the Apogee Duet 2 at 96/24, amplify them all to -.3db and post what I consider to be the most revealing tracks on YouTube - or at least segments of tracks.  Time permitting, I may see what happens if I do a little cut and paste to make an A/B, just because, well I’m a curious guy.

I’m a bit undecided in some cases as to which tracks to work with, so anyone who wishes to chime in go right ahead.  Here is where I’m at now. For that matter if anyone feels these albums don’t cover enough ground, feel free to make suggestions. No Blue Note first press monos here, but with 6,000 + albums I do have a few other possibilities!

Bill Evans Trio - Waltz For Debby (Riverside stereo reissue)

LA Philharomonic, Eric Leinsdorf cond. - Excerpts from Romeo & Juliet  (Sheffield Lab Direct to Disc)

The Nylons - either a track from One Size Fits All or Rockapella.

Wynton Maralis - either a track from Think of One or Hot House Flowers

Joe Sample - Rainbow Seeker

Leo Kottke - Burnt Lips

Herb Alpert  - either Making Love In The Rain, Diamonds (Janet Jackson) or Keep Your Eye On me (12” Maxi—Single)

[Minn Mark]

...catman,

I am also very familiar with some of your list ( I have the Evans, Marsalis and Kottke LPs) and am also very familiar with the way these sound with my AVA Insight+ w Vision phono (MM) versus my SAE pre-amp. I will be interested to read you comparison versus your AU 719 unit (which I think may be about the vintage of my SAE ( early 1980's?, perhaps earlier?). Interesting coincidence our tastes run along similar lines.   I too still have a V15 type IV I use with a Technics SL-D3.  I think the AVA/Vision will blow you away.

Mark