AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Digital Amplifier Company Owners => Topic started by: AmpDesigner333 on 19 Feb 2012, 04:20 pm
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I was listening to Adele 21 on a really great system yesterday (more about the system later), and the recording pretty much sucks. What a shame! It sounds flat and compressed!
It took me a while to get "talked into" really listening to Adele. Finally, I caved and bought the CD after hearing the AAC from iTunes just to determine if I like any songs. I thought it sounded like crap due to the compression, but what I heard sounds like they decoded the AAC file and wrote it to CD as-is.
Does anybody out there agree? She really has a beautiful voice and stunning inflection. I'm sad to say that I can't enjoy her voice in an audiophile fashion.....
:cry:
-Tommy O
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I was listening to Adele 21 on a really great system yesterday (more about the system later), and the recording pretty much sucks. What a shame! It sounds flat and compressed!
It took me a while to get "talked into" really listening to Adele. Finally, I caved and bought the CD after hearing the AAC from iTunes just to determine if I like any songs. I thought it sounded like crap due to the compression, but what I heard sounds like they decoded the AAC file and wrote it to CD as-is.
Does anybody out there agree? She really has a beautiful voice and stunning inflection. I'm sad to say that I can't enjoy her voice in an audiophile fashion.....
:cry:
-Tommy O
I agree 100% and actually just made a post to this effect on another site yesterday. It is too bad Melody Gardot's producer didn't handle the Adele album.
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Buy the LP. See my post in the Music Circle for why...
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=103653.msg1053897#msg1053897
Martin
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Also, wtf is with the echo on Rolling in the Deep?! Such a shame. I ordered the Vinyl version of 21 yesterday with hopes of better a better transfer. I don't have high hopes, but after her grammy performance I am wanting for better quality Adele recordings. I'll report back soon on the Vinyl.
Edit: Thanks, Martin. I'm glad the Vinyl will be an improvement!
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Also, wtf is with the echo on Rolling in the Deep?! Such a shame. I ordered the Vinyl version of 21 yesterday with hopes of better a better transfer. I don't have high hopes, but after her grammy performance I am wanting for better quality Adele recordings. I'll report back soon on the Vinyl.
IMMHO The vinyl sounds great.
Martin
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I haven't heard the Adele CD, but I've had tbe same experience with other artists/albums, and it really is one of the most dissapointing things there is...
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I agree about the CD. Strictly a top 40 type presentation.
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I agree about the CD. Strictly a top 40 type presentation.
I think you captured the spirit of this recording with "top 40"! Waiting to hear about the vinyl version, but also need to check out that link (above) about why it's any better.....
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I haven't heard the Adele CD, but I've had tbe same experience with other artists/albums, and it really is one of the most dissapointing things there is...
We played it at your house yesterday. You must have been upstairs at the time.
People left the room since it sounded so disappointing. They came back after we switched to other music.....
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An interesting read on the recording process for "21".
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/it-0911.htm
The CD does suffer from dynamic compression but not as much as "19". I had a chance to hear it at ToneAudio's studio on truly one of the great setups in existence. Much of what I heard was the rooms in actual homes with their sound limitations where tracks were recorded. I look forward to what MoFi will do with the album down the road.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58252)
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We played it at your house yesterday. You must have been upstairs at the time.
People left the room since it sounded so disappointing. They came back after we switched to other music.....
Yeah, as host I was running around a bunch and didn't get to listen as much as I would have liked to ;)
Post up the pix you took, there are some nice comments about the sound we were getting yesterday...
http://www.audionervosa.com/index.php?topic=3715.0
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The punchline here is that the producer supervising this album was none other than the "legendary," "Grammy-Award winning" producer Rick Rubin.
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Maybe HD Tracks will come to our rescue with a better version!! Doubt it!
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The punchline here is that the producer supervising this album was none other than the "legendary," "Grammy-Award winning" producer Rick Rubin.
Actually the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the CD mastering engineer - Tom Coyne st Sterling Sound - he must be freakin' deaf.
Martin
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An interesting read on the recording process for "21".
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/it-0911.htm
[old-fogy-rant]
Yup, try counting the number of PT dsps, plug-ins, and effects in-play just for "Rolling..."
Unfortunately, this is how a lot of modern post-production works:
As I [Elmhirst] said earlier, the loudness wars are a daily battle for me, because all reference mixes come in pumped, and I have to compete with that. I can’t send in a mix that sounds 10dB less loud then the reference mix. These days I use the UAD Precision Maximizer for that, which is the best one I’ve heard that doesn’t shred the sound.”
Check out the "UAD Precision Maximizer" (http://www.uaudio.com/store/mastering/precision-maximizer.html (http://www.uaudio.com/store/mastering/precision-maximizer.html)):
The Precision Maximizer is a dynamic impact processor that magically increases apparent loudness without reduction in dynamic range, by a unique combination of UA’s analog/tube know-how and digital mastering expertise. There are other products that aim to “finalize” or “inflate” a mix, but UA’s Precision Maximizer uniquely increases perceived loudness while maintaining peak level control, with little effect to the signal level and without the fatiguing artifacts.
(bold added)
[/old-fogy-rant]
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I don't quite get the adoration for this singer...she sure ain't the second coming of Aretha Franklin. :nono:
I'll take the dearly departed Amy over Adele any listen of the week.
21 I bought...played once, gave it away.
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Actually the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the CD mastering engineer - Tom Coyne st Sterling Sound - he must be freakin' deaf.
Martin
So is the harshness corrected completely with the LP? I ask partly because it also appears they used the demo versions of her vocals for some of the tracks, having decided that their raw energy simply couldn't be duplicated in the studio again with better equipment...
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Adele's first CD, "19", is fantastic on a high-end system, "21" is a waste of money. I guess she was produced as more commercial on her second CD.
Buy her first CD, Tommy.
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The same engineer mixed Amy Winehouse - "Rehab" :cry:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=58271)
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IMMHO The vinyl sounds great.
Martin
To your happyness, any bad master sound good on vinyl, even digital 16bits, it is the most euphonic format avaliable today.
Even a cassete tape master will sound very better in vinyl than any optical disc, as they are more transparent than LP.
I never forget the shock the first time I listen Brain Salad Surgery and Tubular Bells on SACD, the huge SACD deph capability show the master tape was a veery sloow analog master tape, 3ips or slower.
On CD these both albums are not great sound, but on vinyl the recordings errors are not audible and only the music shine.
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I read the Whitney Houston producer and husband used a very cheap PCM DAC to her voice to add pre-ring and post-ring to her voice, to fit the Pop-Rock dirty sound standards the silly fans are used to listen. :duh: :duh:
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Tom Coyne mastered the CD; Ray Janos mastered the vinyl LP. (RJ is in the dead wax)
I am sure they both used the same recordings but one compressed the hell out of it while the other did not.
Martin
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Tom Coyne mastered the CD; Ray Janos mastered the vinyl LP. (RJ is in the dead wax)
I am sure they both used the same recordings but one compressed the hell out of it while the other did not.
Martin
Some Ray Janos clips from YouTube...about the vinyl process..on a different album.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPj7KZQhqo4&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rptiRXZ0t70&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMOl9iDzdEo&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnwlLiEcxLg&feature=relmfu
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i remember when Led Zeppelin's Mothership compilation CD was released. i had never heard such a jacked up,Compressed and bright sounding cd in my life :duh:
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I think the actual word is "hanged". Wanting someone to be "hung" is a completing different matter...just sayin. :thumb:
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I think the actual word is "hanged". Wanting someone to be "hung" is a completing different matter...just sayin. :thumb:
Holy crap! You're right!
I'm known to correct people on stuff like that, too, like "carefully" versus "careful", or "there's" instead of "there ARE", or words that shouldn't have an "s" at the end (anyway, toward, backward).... Hell, my nav system says "towardS" instead of toward. That's a gray-area one, but annoys me nonetheless.
I find that I'm correcting people less these days. I'd normally say that I should be hung for such a mistake, but I already am :)
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Links to DR Database and HD Tracks added to our facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/DigitalAmpCo
Please "like" us on facebook if you haven't already....
Thanks!
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Check this out (on Audiogon) regarding Adele 21:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1316231238&read&keyw&zzadele+21
....and this one:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?gmusi&1225543481&read&keyw&zzadele+21
We listened to this Adele 21 briefly at Barry's (see other thread) with Oppo Blu-ray, VAC pre, Cherry ULTRA. That's what started the discussion on this thread.
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I was listening to Adele 21 on a really great system yesterday (more about the system later), and the recording pretty much sucks. What a shame! It sounds flat and compressed!
It took me a while to get "talked into" really listening to Adele. Finally, I caved and bought the CD after hearing the AAC from iTunes just to determine if I like any songs. I thought it sounded like crap due to the compression, but what I heard sounds like they decoded the AAC file and wrote it to CD as-is.
Does anybody out there agree? She really has a beautiful voice and stunning inflection. I'm sad to say that I can't enjoy her voice in an audiophile fashion.....
:cry:
-Tommy O
So true look at the compression website, no green at all on all here albums, all compressed and she's so good
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=adele&album= (http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=adele&album=)
PS sorry about the 3 dud posts above, brain fart
Cheers George
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Folks
The most important statement I ever heard said,, how ever intangible as a tool for change , was from the founder of "Audio Quest", about 20 years ago, I was looking at working for him and asked how he was fixed for discussing CD's with the wire buying public, he said, "Producers have almost no total control over the out come of a digital recording, and as long as its a toy to most who buy it to touch and not a statement of Hi Fidelity, whole albums will go in the trash"
I have seen entire bands disappear because the magic never got on the chilly as ice CD, the music industry needs this crap sent back to them, and wasted rock stars with zero hearing need to get out of the booth for folks with ears.
On my birthday back in the late 90's I dropped several $!00.00 on cd's at tower records DC, I took about 7 back as bad sounding defects, made them listen to them, got my money back, Bet those refund days are over.
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The Blu-ray, Adele Live at the Royal Albert Hall, has all the songs from 21 except He Won't Go. It has much better dynamic range than the CD. I used it at the Digital Amp Room at RMAF two years ago.
With just a few mouse clicks in JRiver Media Center, I can rip the tracks to FLAC (either stereo or multi-channel) and listen to the songs just like any other CD. I also get rid of the talking between songs.
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Try buying the LP, 21 & 25. Who ever is pressing them sucks ass at their job, total dick-bag-morons. My 25 was basically unusable (I got rid of it, but could have used it for a plate with the dish it had), and 21 has some defects I'd only expect on some well worn and perhaps abused discs.
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Reviving this thread to comment on the Japanese pressing that I bought home whilst holidaying in HK. It was far superior than the European pressing, It was quieter, more dynamic and it did not have the harshness, the Japanese pressing reminded me of her live performance whilst seated in row 10 at the Etihad stadium in Melbourne...well almost
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Reviving this thread to comment on the Japanese pressing that I bought home whilst holidaying in HK. It was far superior than the European pressing, It was quieter, more dynamic and it did not have the harshness, the Japanese pressing reminded me of her live performance whilst seated in row 10 at the Etihad stadium in Melbourne...well almost
is it available in the US? we are talking about 21, and not 25 which i could not stand...
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Reviving this thread to comment on the Japanese pressing that I bought home whilst holidaying in HK. It was far superior than the European pressing, It was quieter, more dynamic and it did not have the harshness, the Japanese pressing reminded me of her live performance whilst seated in row 10 at the Etihad stadium in Melbourne...well almost
Thanks for your post. I searched HD Tracks for Adele, since I'm primarily interested in digital content. They have only ONE TRACK from Adele (Skyfall)! I'll buy it just to check the quality. It's 96/24 in AIFF, ALAC, FLAC, or WAV format.
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Link to DR database for Adele 21:
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Adele&album=21
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Yeah, I thought it was pretty well known that her recordings were horrendously processed. It's unfortunate you found this out after the fact, especially as she is a great vocal talent.