Can we help this guy out with some room treatment and speaker placement?

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Danny Richie


jupiterboy

Open that tiny door and toss the TV inside before closing it agian.

Oscillate

Will his wife allow him to rearrange the furniture?

nickd

If you can't up-size the room, I might consider down-sizing the rig (even though the gear is amazing).

Speakers need a bit of room to breathe. if possible I might turn the layout to a long wall if there is one. The current layout is too cramped to even add proper diffusion. Some absorbing treatments on the outer walls next to the big Revels might help with that first reflection?

That or pull the revels out into the room and toe them in for the near field "headphone effect". Not my thing, but some love the resolution and imaging that setup allows.

Danny Richie

Maybe we can get the proud owner of this gear to join in and he can post the rest of the pics of his room so we can help him further.

Bdaley6509

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 5
Thanks a lot for all the input and help, guys.  I have a long wall in the room that I could move the system to, but it's only 12' deep and I fear I will be too close to the speakers.  Still might be better?  Anyway, I have a theatre room next to this one with a large screen, but kind of wanted to keep it clean with in-wall speakers, but who knows, maybe I'll move the Revel's in there and let them breathe a bit.  Here are some pics of both rooms. 






















Danny Richie

First of all, welcome to AC.

murphy11

I'd recommend downloading free (optional donation) REW software and getting a USB microphone and measuring the speakers and the room. I was patient and took hundreds of measurements to get my final placements after a month of tweaking placements and speakers. You certainly don't have to take that many but it would give you an objective assessment and where the 'best' placements are from a measurement perspective.

Two things I found were my speakers measured better away from back and side walls and also measured better when they were forward of my TV. I was not using my TV much and wound up taking it out of the room and the sound improved even more. Good luck!


Early B.

That tiny room with those big speakers isn't gonna work well, no matter what you do. Move the speakers into your theater room and let them breathe.

brother love

Welcome aboard Bdaley6509.

What is the width length & height of the room ?  (Based on your previous post, I assume width is 12 ft. in your current set-up ?).

I see a fairly large plasma/ lcd display. How large & what is the viewing distance ?

Right out of the gate. I would pull the speakers out at least 18 - 24 in. from the front wall & I would add some insulated draperies to the large window opening. Size of display severely limits pulling speakers farther away from side walls, so prior suggestion to rotate set-up from short wall to long wall might be advantageous.

Here is a good resource for speaker placement: Cardas golden ratio- http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php

A couple good resources for room sound acoustical treatments:

http://realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-primer/

Lots of folks here can help you with recommendations, but you need to decide how much you want to invest in time, money, etc. & communicate what you are willing/ unwilling to do (keep an open mind though if you can).


Folsom

I'd put the speakers on both sides of the Windows 3' away from the wall if you can keep about at least a foot between you an them. And I wouldn't have the TV. That's my preference.

Your speakers may or may not have dispersion limits in near field. I can't say, but I don't see the point in the rear or subs. One of the most impressive systems I've been near was as I say. It's not ideal but you're still captivated.

The speakers too close to the wall will be the biggest detriment to address first. It simply cannot be. You'll be listen to half as much what the speakers sound like when their panels are loaded from the outside. You'll be trying to dampen them to no true avail. You won't have the timbre, PRAT, or any other fine quality that makes you stay in your seat.

Personally I just like windows. Rooms without them are not right for me. They're a small price to pay in my opinion. Near field reduces a lot of concerns with them and with problems about the room as far as I can tell. At no point have I achieved good listening otherwise in a modest sized room. If you try you may end up with more traps and diffusers than room.

Your theatre looks awesome for a family. Is that a hoodie or cat on the floor?

dBe

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2181
    • PI audio group, LLC
I'm with the "move them to the HT room" crowd.  The woofers are essentially radiating into 1/8 space and that will give you an 18dB boost in the lows frequencies in addition to the room gain dictated by the rooms' dimensions.  Don't play anything mastered by Brian "Big Bottom Watson" or you could go blind  :lol:

Seriously,  that room screams for a nice pair of mid sized speakers moved out into the room.

Bdaley6509

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 5
So I compromised with the wife and moved them to the master bed (I really wanted them downstairs in the family room).  The dimensions are much better at 17' (speaker wall) x 20' deep.  Not the most ideal listening arrangement, but should open up the soundstage a little better.  The TV is an 80" to give you some perspective.  Next big question is, are they better with or without the silver panels?  The wifey hates them with them on.  Says they look like tabletops, and they don't exactly go with anything in the room.  If without, does anyone know of any grommets or covers for the side bolt holes that might look good on these?



Bdaley6509

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 5
Another snap with the door shut.



dBe

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 2181
    • PI audio group, LLC
Another snap with the door shut.


Here is the rub, if you are looking for a great soundstage and imaging, you have to have sidewall symmetry.  Soundstage localization is partially determined by the returns from the side walls in combination with the directly radiated signal... conventional wisdom is that anything arriving within <20ms is perceived as a single event.  This is another place where conventional wisdom is wrong.  Any one that has done recording and used delay panning can tell you just what 3ms can do to placement in the soundstage.  What complicates matters is the bandwidth of each particular instrument.  Instruments (voice included) centered in the midrange fall prey to refelection comb filtering that mucks mightily with the soundstage.  That would be 95% of all instruments...

Is there anyplace in the room that you can get side to side symmetry?

Big Box stores and Ace Hardware (in particular) have some furniture specialy items in their hardware departments.  That is where I would look for the plugs.

WGH

Your wife is right, the speakers look a lot better without the panels. Tossing a blanket over the TV will improve your imaging, that big piece of glass really reflects and confuses the sound.

Rockler has a few different sizes of hole caps
http://www.rockler.com/hardware/fasteners/screw-caps-and-plugs


ACHiPo

Next big question is, are they better with or without the silver panels?  The wifey hates them with them on.  Says they look like tabletops, and they don't exactly go with anything in the room.  If without, does anyone know of any grommets or covers for the side bolt holes that might look good on these?

Weighing in on a tangent...

I'm with your wife on the speaker panels.  I've never seen Rels without them, and I was never crazy about the way the Rels look (although they sound amazing).  I had no idea you could take them off.  Of course I also have no idea what impact they have on the sound.

...now back to your value-added input :D

Bdaley6509

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 5
Your wife is right, the speakers look a lot better without the panels. Tossing a blanket over the TV will improve your imaging, that big piece of glass really reflects and confuses the sound.

Rockler has a few different sizes of hole caps
http://www.rockler.com/hardware/fasteners/screw-caps-and-plugs



Awesome...thank you.

jimdgoulding

dBe is right as rain about symmetry.  And, please, pull your speakers more out into the room.  You do like 3D depth of field, don't you?  Bout 52" from the face of them to the wall or as much as you can manage.  Can't see the other end of your room but you do not want to be sitting flush against the wall.  Your seat, too, needs to be out from the wall behind it.  How's about doing that and then re-posting with your impressions.  Damp that TV screen when listening, too, with a mattress pad- of the kind that look like egg crates maybe- or something.

Early B.

Yeah, you're still choking the life out of your speakers. Pull them out from the back wall as far as possible, and move the left speaker as far from the left wall as possible. Also, experiment with toe-in. 

What are you powering them with? That's not an AVR, is it?