TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps

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wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #80 on: 28 Dec 2013, 02:29 am »
Smaller caps discharge quicker. They're rather effective, where as giant caps won't be except in lower frequency extension. That is when comparing lower to moderate priced capacitors. You can spend $119 a cap or whatever, and get similar performance from a 50kuf to a 1kuf.

It's easier to just use multiple caps to get very low ESR, and keep them small and fast. (define small, I know, you're choice, play around and see what you like?)

As noted here by another member, what I'm talking about is real;

Here . You'll notice some skeptics, people suggesting more complicated (and to my ears often inherently bad sounding) filtration ideas, but at the very end the real skeptic tried it out and now is a total convert.

It's just the behavior of class D, why fight it?

I don't know. My experience with several TPA amps has been that unlike some other Class D once you beef up the supply caps a bit the amp doesn't really respond to other mods as much, be it input caps or power supply across rails, etc. There might be some refinement but overall the presentation is consistent. It is worth exploring to be sure but the TPA amps are the rare case for me where all the modding doesn't really pay off as much. YMMV.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #81 on: 28 Dec 2013, 04:13 pm »
The higher PS cap values improve low end response for a more fuller sound in my experience. Others have reported the same. I've also found PS caps to have a more tonal impact than say input cap mods, etc. I prefer Nichicon Muse myself for clean and clear and microdynamics. Elna Silmics are very warm. It's easy to try out on the 3110 board since it has surface pads making it very simple to solder and desolder. And PS caps are so inexpensive. Worth trying out.

 I came across this: "Comparing electrolytic capacitors - May 2008, by Eric Juaneda"

http://tech.juaneda.com/en/articles/electrolyticcapacitors.html

Don't know if it's any help for what we are doing here, but it does have some interesting listening test diagrams for the different caps tested.

raysracing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #82 on: 28 Dec 2013, 04:37 pm »
How do companies like Millenia "tune" these chips?  I suppose just like what were all trying to do here except  with a lot more experience, and test equipment (and potentially a degree in the field).

 I wonder how I could tune mine for my speakers?  It is amazing how "hot" or bright the treble is on my speakers with these amps.  I will start with the resistors on the RCA's first, but what other mods do you think would warm up the highs?  Of course this mod would be bad on most of my other speakers, but I want to avoid having to buy an expensive amp if I can tune a chip amp for a few dollars in caps and resistors, etc.

ON to amp building school I think.

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #83 on: 28 Dec 2013, 04:59 pm »
How do companies like Millenia "tune" these chips?  I suppose just like what were all trying to do here except  with a lot more experience, and test equipment (and potentially a degree in the field).

 I wonder how I could tune mine for my speakers?  It is amazing how "hot" or bright the treble is on my speakers with these amps.  I will start with the resistors on the RCA's first, but what other mods do you think would warm up the highs?  Of course this mod would be bad on most of my other speakers, but I want to avoid having to buy an expensive amp if I can tune a chip amp for a few dollars in caps and resistors, etc.

ON to amp building school I think.

What speakers are they?

Hard to say since you're using the amp w/ tone controls and most folks use the boards without. The tone controls have a poor quality opamp so that might be the culprit. Also it is possible that there is an impedance matching issue and the output filter needs to be modified to accommodate. TBI uses an opamp based buffer, other than that they pretty much use the stock TI design I think, not sure.

MLS

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #84 on: 28 Dec 2013, 07:05 pm »
My local electronics store only had NTE capacitors.  Are they worth putting in the TPA 3110?

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #85 on: 28 Dec 2013, 07:30 pm »
My local electronics store only had NTE capacitors.  Are they worth putting in the TPA 3110?

I doubt it would be a step up, if not a step down. You can find great electrolytics from Mouser, Digikey, Ebay, Hndme.com, etc. If you're not in the U.S. then ebay will certainly have many options. I would avoid the NTE.

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #86 on: 28 Dec 2013, 08:23 pm »
I doubt it would be a step up, if not a step down. You can find great electrolytics from Mouser, Digikey, Ebay, Hndme.com, etc. If you're not in the U.S. then ebay will certainly have many options. I would avoid the NTE.

Agreed. While you're at it, get some decent speaker binding posts and RCA jacks. Cheap connectors can kill sound quality as well. Mouser and Digikey carry Pomona 3770-x Gold-plated Tellurium Copper binding posts. I really don't know of any better binding posts for the money.

Folsom

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #87 on: 28 Dec 2013, 08:26 pm »
I don't know. My experience with several TPA amps has been that unlike some other Class D once you beef up the supply caps a bit the amp doesn't really respond to other mods as much, be it input caps or power supply across rails, etc. There might be some refinement but overall the presentation is consistent. It is worth exploring to be sure but the TPA amps are the rare case for me where all the modding doesn't really pay off as much. YMMV.

Yes but then the question is are the caps correcting a lot of issues, and so the other mods don't work? or are the other mods more valuable and the power supply caps are screwing up their benefits?

I'm pretty sure it's not the ladder.

raysracing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #88 on: 28 Dec 2013, 10:13 pm »
What speakers are they?

Hard to say since you're using the amp w/ tone controls and most folks use the boards without. The tone controls have a poor quality opamp so that might be the culprit. Also it is possible that there is an impedance matching issue and the output filter needs to be modified to accommodate. TBI uses an opamp based buffer, other than that they pretty much use the stock TI design I think, not sure.
I just ordered another one without the tone controls, mostly for my Lores. But I will try to mod one for the Omegas with hemp drivers.

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #89 on: 28 Dec 2013, 10:17 pm »
I just ordered another one without the tone controls, mostly for my Lores. But I will try to mod one for the Omegas with hemp drivers.

Which board did you order?

raysracing


wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #91 on: 28 Dec 2013, 11:07 pm »

lacro

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #92 on: 29 Dec 2013, 02:28 pm »
http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=171192126808

Are you going to keep the volume pot? Are there any boards without it?

raysracing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #93 on: 29 Dec 2013, 02:41 pm »
Are you going to keep the volume pot? Are there any boards without it?
I plan on maxing the volume pot and using my pre amplifier.


shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #94 on: 29 Dec 2013, 04:49 pm »
I plan on maxing the volume pot and using my pre amplifier.



I order the blue board via buychina.com website which does not have any volume pot.  Anyone have any recommendation for a remote control for the board.  Want to try it as a straight amp first with a preamp.


wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #95 on: 29 Dec 2013, 05:15 pm »
I order the blue board via buychina.com website which does not have any volume pot.  Anyone have any recommendation for a remote control for the board.  Want to try it as a straight amp first with a preamp.


Hm, that board has some extra stuff going that I don't recognize from the TI datasheet. Can't tell if it's some kind of additional power filtration or what. Looks like they are using fake Oscons for the PS caps too. On the upside they are using the recommended output filter of 10uh/.68uf from TI, unlike the other boards that do 22uh/.56uf.

What do you mean by remote control?

shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #96 on: 29 Dec 2013, 08:57 pm »
Hm, that board has some extra stuff going that I don't recognize from the TI datasheet. Can't tell if it's some kind of additional power filtration or what. Looks like they are using fake Oscons for the PS caps too. On the upside they are using the recommended output filter of 10uh/.68uf from TI, unlike the other boards that do 22uh/.56uf.

What do you mean by remote control?

Thinking about ordering the YJ with volume control but want to replace the volume control with a remote volume control.

Also, can you point out the extra stuff installed on the board.
« Last Edit: 29 Dec 2013, 11:06 pm by shadowlight »

rhing

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #97 on: 30 Dec 2013, 02:11 am »
Thinking about ordering the YJ with volume control but want to replace the volume control with a remote volume control.

Also, can you point out the extra stuff installed on the board.

shadowlight,

Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp. Once I moved the RCA connectors closer to the board inputs, and installed the new Panasonic FM caps in the power supply, this amp has been steadily opening up to produce incredible sound. I'm listening to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it does so well with timbre. Earlier, I played an RCA Living Stereo SACD of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" and the soundstage and crescendos were reproduced with incredible fidelity. Strings and brass sounded so clear without any stridency. I've even jammed to Van Halen's first album, and it just seems like this amp is unfazed with anything I play. The tonality is good and because I only had to replace the power supply caps as mods, this represents an outstanding value. Until someone on diyAudio.com comes out with a quality PCB group buy, I'm going to be completely satisfied with this amp fed by my ARC LS7.

I have a classic Dynaco Stereo 35 with Dave Gillespie's Enhanced Fixed Bias which yields incredible headroom from a great tube amplifier, and this modest Sure amp can hang with the Dynaco in that department. Now the tube bloom and EL84 tone of the Dynaco amp can't be touched by the Sure amp, but my Dynaco cost a whole lot more in terms of money and elbow grease.

I may have to bring this little Class D gem to the next San Francisco Tube Users Group meeting. We meet at the Randall Museum and use a pair of Klipsch Chorus speakers in a small auditorium.

wushuliu

Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #98 on: 30 Dec 2013, 02:20 am »
shadowlight,

Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp.

Agreed.

shadowlight

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Re: TPA3110 and TPS3116 amps
« Reply #99 on: 30 Dec 2013, 02:29 am »
shadowlight,

Stay with your original plan and work with the Sure TPA3110 amp. Once I moved the RCA connectors closer to the board inputs, and installed the new Panasonic FM caps in the power supply, this amp has been steadily opening up to produce incredible sound. I'm listening to Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" and it does so well with timbre. Earlier, I played an RCA Living Stereo SACD of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" and the soundstage and crescendos were reproduced with incredible fidelity. Strings and brass sounded so clear without any stridency. I've even jammed to Van Halen's first album, and it just seems like this amp is unfazed with anything I play. The tonality is good and because I only had to replace the power supply caps as mods, this represents an outstanding value. Until someone on diyAudio.com comes out with a quality PCB group buy, I'm going to be completely satisfied with this amp fed by my ARC LS7.

I have a classic Dynaco Stereo 35 with Dave Gillespie's Enhanced Fixed Bias which yields incredible headroom from a great tube amplifier, and this modest Sure amp can hang with the Dynaco in that department. Now the tube bloom and EL84 tone of the Dynaco amp can't be touched by the Sure amp, but my Dynaco cost a whole lot more in terms of money and elbow grease.

I may have to bring this little Class D gem to the next San Francisco Tube Users Group meeting. We meet at the Randall Museum and use a pair of Klipsch Chorus speakers in a small auditorium.


Thx.  I have been playing the Sure board with a IBM Thinkpad 16V adapter and a 12V battery.  Still trying to figure out which one I like best.