[a.wayne]

Because no one else has bought one, and I think I need one more TT (this will be #9), I have decided to buy this much anticipated DD table. I have already drawn lines in the sand for this table, and if it doesn't perform to my utmost expectations, its going back. I got it for $699, with free shipping and a 1 year extended warranty (to 2 years).

The cartridges that will be installed in it will be the Grado Gold1 Longhorn, the Audio Technica AT440MLa and the Grado Master Reference/Statement. I will try to give a non-buttered up review when this process is complete. Stereophile magazine said that this is the table to buy if you are in the <$2,000 market (who isn't). There is a rather bad video on it concerning feedback, but I don't listen at disco levels, nor do I have my speakers pointed at the table.

So, here we go.......

'ner

OK,

This is your original post and i see the intent was to review the table , i dont see how this  affects my answer and question before , where you asked for suggestions ....

The 1200 does suffer from feedback issues,  it muddies the  Bass as well as other things, it only merit is good speed lock and variable speed if needed, its not a quality hiFi table ...


Regards

[Wayner]

Where did you learn this stuff? The Technics SL1200MKII is probably the least prone deck to feedback in the entire industry. Why do you think it's the most sought after DJ table in the world.

Unbelievable......

[Quiet Earth]

Did you understand the purpose of this review? Maybe you should read the entire thread.......

I know I'm gonna catch hell for this, but I read the entire thread and I don't think I understand the purpose of it either.

For one thing, you never played a record on it and listened to music with it. Why does a person buy a turntable in the first place? To critique the way it is engineered or to listen to records with it? It seems like you were only interested in the engineering aspect of it.

Now, I know that you obviously must have played a record on it, but you completely left that part out. So if you did,,, did you like the sound of it even though it does not conform to your very strict alignment guidelines? Did it do anything better compared to your other turntables?  If a newbie (or anyone else for that matter) bought one and set it up per the manufacturer's instructions, would he have success with it?

No disrespect intended, but it doesn't seem like you gave it enough of a chance. That's the way the thread reads to me anyway. Not that it matters, but I thought it was kind of weird.

Just sayin'. (Not trying to be mean.)

[mix4fix]

That's how I kinda feel...

I'm not expecting it to be great but I hope it's ok for what it is.

[a.wayne]

Where did you learn this stuff? The Technics SL1200MKII is probably the least prone deck to feedback in the entire industry. Why do you think it's the most sought after DJ table in the world.

Unbelievable......

Your pretty confident with such Ignorance , after designing and building 50 night clubs during that era I can tell you its a feedback nightmare if said  club had anything name bass.  its popularity had nothing to do with its sonics. Its a DJ TABLE , the fact you think it sounds good is your personal decision and opinion,  your Hubris is whats offensive ....

If you  only want to monologue , why post  .....?

[a.wayne]

The Kenwood was a better sounding table , it was not as popular due to its finicky nature , you should  try a KD500 with the concrete base ...

[Bob2]

So a DJ is concerned about audiophile quality? I mean since few if any record is played in it's entirety is sq really a concern?
Unbelievable!

This review means little if anything... 

[Russell Dawkins]

Now idler wheels are making a comeback. I can't imagine why.
steve

Yeah, that puzzles me, too. The old Garrards and even Lencos.

[Wayner]

Your pretty confident with such Ignorance , after designing and building 50 night clubs during that era I can tell you its a feedback nightmare if said  club had anything name bass.  its popularity had nothing to do with its sonics. Its a DJ TABLE , the fact you think it sounds good is your personal decision and opinion,  your Hubris is whats offensive ....

If you  only want to monologue , why post  .....?

.............

[Letitroll98]

I don't see why you're getting so much blowback Wayner.  I just assumed you played a few records on the table and the sound quality wasn't any better than the engineering.  Which is what I expected given the reputation of the other Hanpin decks.  If you found something different please let us know.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

Instead of jumping all over Wayner,  why don't you guys buy the Pioneer and do your own test.  Then post your findings here.  Most of us work full time and then have errands to run after work.  Free time is rare, and I for one appreciate Wayner's advise.  It saves me from wasting my money and time purchasing a product that does not perform as hoped.  If you don't like his findings then don't listen to them.  I feel that on this forum we are all friends with the same hobby.  I am angry at the personal and nasty attacks.  You can disagree without getting nasty!  My fear is that Wayner will stop testing things and posting his findings because of the treatment that he got here.

[neobop]

I don't see why you're getting so much blowback Wayner.  I just assumed you played a few records on the table and the sound quality wasn't any better than the engineering.  Which is what I expected given the reputation of the other Hanpin decks.  If you found something different please let us know.

You don't see why so much blowback?  Think a little harder, maybe you assume too much.  I don't recall reading anything about SQ except exclusion of most favored alignments and Grado hum.  Millions of the preferred vintage Japanese decks have similar alignment schemes, and many hum with Grados. 
I asked a couple of questions pertaining to performance.  The answer suggests there was no attempt made to actually use the table.

It's obvious that Wayner is a 1200 fan boy and the question arises, was he really looking to seriously audition the table? 
How hard is it to put on a thicker mat or loosen two little screws to adjust azimuth?   Even if you don't want to mess up the stock headshell if you might want to return it, you could substitute another with longer slots.  You don't need a CNC machine to do this. 

Bottom line - we know a couple of specific things about the Pioneer, but that's all we know.  It appears this wasn't a real evaluation and shed little light on the subject.  Hanpin is probably capable of making a table that beats the 1200.  The company that orders product has to specify exactly what they want and how to implement.  Things like a stronger AS spring or a spacer supplied with the headshell, cost nothing.   

Disappointing, non-evaluation.
neo
 

[Wayner]

I guess I'm a fan boy of things that work right out of the box. I shouldn't have to tweak this or modify that to meet my expectations. I am a fan boy of the Technics SL1200MKII, because they did everything right. No need to screw around with the AS, no need to slot out the head shell, no need to make some kind of Faraday shield to keep the Grado fro humming.

[RDavidson]

I see value in Wayners "review" BECAUSE the Pioneer is marketed as a 1200 drop-in replacement, without specification of DJing or home use. Whether Wayner or anyone else is a 1200 "fanboy" is irrelevant. People are allowed to like what they like and dislike what they don't. That the Pioneer technically isn't quite a drop-in replacement for a 1200 is valuable information (regardless of intended use) for reasons Wayner found and stated.

I also agree, however, that a comparisson in sound quality to a 1200 would be useful to many here (who aren't DJ's).

[S Clark]

I understand that Wayner's review didn't accomplish all things for all people.  However, it is valuable information that reveals a couple of flaws in an intro level turntable. \
But he did take his money and his time and evaluate the product on criteria that had value to him.  Everyone is looking for something a little different.  Like most of us around here, you take Wayner with a rough edge or two because he adds value to this place.  But if you take the time to review something, even if not the way others would do it, the result is another perspective that gives our members more information to utilize.  I just finished a review of the Crown amp that Tomy2Tone is generously sending around.  Unlike many that reviewed it, I didn't like it- but it's another bit of info for our readers to evaluate.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130191.msg1409949#new

Again, thanks Wayner for posting your thoughts on the PLX1000.  It adds to our collective knowledge.

Scott

[bacobits1]

 "It adds to our collective knowledge."
Of course it does why read into it anymore than that.
Some people here are just plain ignorant that's putting it nicely.

[wushuliu]

I don't see why you're getting so much blowback Wayner.  I just assumed you played a few records on the table and the sound quality wasn't any better than the engineering.  Which is what I expected given the reputation of the other Hanpin decks.  If you found something different please let us know.

Actually his sound quality notes on the AK forum, brief as they were, were positive. But I agree it's silly to criticize given that he was straightforward about both his objectives and his reviewing style from the get go. In a world of free shipping and easy returns those who want to know more should just order one like he did, review, and then return it.

I intend to do the same myself later in the year. In fact I want to demo all the <700 tables and do writeups 'cause I'm tired of the b*tching and the weird this camp vs. that camp.

[wushuliu]

What I also kind of like about Wayner's review is that it is a rare well done example of a review for the 'engineering'-oriented crowd of table lovers. Only thing missing really were a full set of measurements and those guys would have had an aurgasm. I like it because it shows just how different a perspective someone can have regarding the hobby and their expectations/needs/observations.

I think for a lot of folks a whole magazine of reviews like this would represent what Stereophile *should be*.

Gotta see the value in everything folks.

[a.wayne]

Wayner system is freq limited so he thinks a1200 is a "good table" sonically, i will only add , its obvious to me he really loves analog and i can get with him liking this table , to say it gets everything right is hillarious and for the record , i dont have an issue with his review and send back , very  obvious he thought it not as nice, with inferior build quality to the Technics ....


 Wayner was not interested  in the sound of that pioneer table,  proving  my original point  ......




Regards

[RDavidson]

a.wayne can you not take info for face value and leave it at that? Wayner, like everyone else here, is entitled to like what they like for whatever reason they wish. You seem bent on proving nothing but your own opinion on the subject matter and Wayner. Just stop. This is ridiculous.

Go start a thread about the belt drive TT's around $1000 that you like, versus thread dumping here. Hell, start a thread about these $1000 TT's and express why you like them better than the Technics 1200 (and derivatives). This is a thread about the PLX1000 (which is marketed as a 1200 replacement). Wayner was merely comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Anyone interested in the PLX1000, probably likes the Technics 1200 or is interested in it for their own reasons. Why must you insist on pointing people towards oranges, when they're really just interested in apples?