DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods

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wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #80 on: 22 Apr 2010, 11:19 pm »
Let us know your progress.  That one does sound interesting!

What all is needed to get it working?

A transformer for the power supply (probably the R-core that I am using currently, pictured earlier in the thread), and wiring for the coaxial input.

SET Man

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #81 on: 23 Apr 2010, 04:31 am »
...

here's another cheap one that's just come out. Haven't heard it, but it doesn't use opamps in the
output stage like the above and the seller seems to have good quality dac's (one of which is on the way). For the
money it can't hurt to try, and you can let us know what you think!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Special-offer-TDA1543-4-DAC-4-0-NOS-DAC-Kit-CS8412-/220589925703?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335c2f2547




Hey!

    I have this DAC in my system right now. Bought from this seller, great seller by the way. :D

    This DAC use 4 TDA1543 DAC chips running in paralleled. The output come directly off those chips. There is no opamp or buffer after the DAC chips. Simple! I like it.

  The DAC uses lot of good quality component despite the price. Still I only did 2 upgrades to it. 1. Changed diodes to Schottky type 2. Changed the output caps (22uf) to Russian K73-16 22uf 63V with Jensen PIO Copper as by pass caps.

     Definitely the output cap upgrade made the biggest improvement. The stock caps sounds horrible. But I know NOS DAC so that was the first thing I looked at to upgrade.

    So far a great NOS DAC. But not for everyone. It won't do detail especially in the high like 24/96+ DAC. But I'm a fan of NOS DAC of which I feel sound more analog playing Red Book CD :D I found most 24/96+ DAC sound unease especially in the high that sometime can sound hyper unnatural. Of course they are some exception of good 24/96+ DACs out there.

    Anyway, I will take some pictures and post them here soon.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #82 on: 23 Apr 2010, 04:49 am »
Hey!

    I have this DAC in my system right now. Bought from this seller, great seller by the way. :D

    This DAC use 4 TDA1543 DAC chips running in paralleled. The output come directly off those chips. There is no opamp or buffer after the DAC chips. Simple! I like it.

  The DAC uses lot of good quality component despite the price. Still I only did 2 upgrades to it. 1. Changed diodes to Schottky type 2. Changed the output caps (22uf) to Russian K73-16 22uf 63V with Jensen PIO Copper as by pass caps.

     Definitely the output cap upgrade made the biggest improvement. The stock caps sounds horrible. But I know NOS DAC so that was the first thing I looked at to upgrade.

    So far a great NOS DAC. But not for everyone. It won't do detail especially in the high like 24/96+ DAC. But I'm a fan of NOS DAC of which I feel sound more analog playing Red Book CD :D I found most 24/96+ DAC sound unease especially in the high that sometime can sound hyper unnatural. Of course they are some exception of good 24/96+ DACs out there.

    Anyway, I will take some pictures and post them here soon.

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Sweet! Thanks for the feedback and the mod tips! I have yet to hear a TDA154X  DAC, so I may just get this one down the road just to try it out...

SET Man

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #83 on: 24 Apr 2010, 12:40 am »
Sweet! Thanks for the feedback and the mod tips! I have yet to hear a TDA154X  DAC, so I may just get this one down the road just to try it out...

Hey!

     No problem. :D

     And here is my NOS DAC Kit with 4 TDA1543 D/A chips running in paralleled.


     "I am completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly."



The PCB board fitted in an IKEA "BJURON" wooden planter. With kit project I always find that finding enclosure for the kit is the hard part sometime. I looked around and came across thie IKEA wooden planter. The inside was almost 1/8" too short so I had to sand off the PCB and the inside of the box with Dremal  to make it fit. This box measure 6.25X6.25X5". There's a bigger box of the same type but it will be too big.



The back with BNC and Optical input and output. I didn't put ON/OFF switch yet... forgot to get one.  :icon_lol: Fitting those jacks was a bit tricky since I can't drill from the inside. So I had to make recesses into the box to make them fit. Unfortunately I made mistake with the hole in the middle and have to patch it up. I guess I could make a label about the DAC and cover it. :wink:



   Underneath, the transformer is a Signal Transformer "Flathead" LP-20-1200 0-10V 1-10V 24VA. As mentioned before I did 2 upgrades on this. 1. Stock diodes to Schottky type. 2. Stock caps to Russian K73-16 22uf 63V with Jensen PIO Copper as by pass.



   Here's the DAC in my system.

   Anyway the original output caps was ELNA CE-BP 22uf 50V with small green of which I think is ERO .1uf 100V used as by pass cap. Overall the combination of both stocks caps sound harsh, bright and thin side without any body or dimension even after 50 hours of break-in using my cable box and feed the TV. I first try it without the ERO .1uf by pass caps solved the brightness problem but the sound turn dark and flat.

    So, after a little research I went with a matched pair of Russian K73-16 also picked up off eBay from a very good seller. Surprisingly the K73-16 sound very good by themselves. But was a bit flat and can use a little more open top. So, this is where a by pass cap came in. I tried a few that I have left from previous projects and upgrade, from cheap orange drop to MIT RTX ranging from .1uf to .47uf. But I settled on .22uf Jensen copper PIO cap. At .22uf it fall in at 1% of the 22uf main cap which is just fine. BTW... this is my favorite signal cap I used this type in both my pre and amp.

   As for the sound. Well, I haven't have much time on it yet. But so far it sound very good. Playing CD it sound very analog-like. Very smooth with sound stage the a bit farther back then some of the 24/96+ DAC I've heard. I'm not into the "in your face" sound so this fit me well. But it can lack a bit of dynamic compared to opamp or tube buffered output DAC. Well, I don't mind that.

   I like the sound of NOS DAC playing CD. And this DAC is very nice simple NOS DAC. No OPAMP or buffer after the DAC chip, the I/V is passive.  So this little inexpensive DAC will stay in my system for a while.

    It is a different sound than the 24/96+ DACs out there. Although there some exceptions but not many.

   Well, if anyone else using this DAC I would love to hear how it sound in your system. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:
« Last Edit: 24 Apr 2010, 01:47 am by SET Man »

HT cOz

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #84 on: 24 Apr 2010, 10:42 pm »
Does anyone have any idea what to expect if you were to go all out with raindrop_hui on something like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-DAC-AD1955-AD1896-HDAM-x-3-pairs-/220594293030?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335c71c926


Occam

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #85 on: 9 May 2010, 06:08 pm »
FWIW, the always interesting Lukaz has been mucking about with these inexpensive DACs -
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/CD%20DAC%20Lampucera%20lampizator.html

Interesting read, but I do wish he'd keep the leads of his decoupling caps shorter...
For those looking to simplify their opamp outputs, removing coupling caps and biasing a bipolar input opamp deeper into class A and removing the ouput offset -



http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/MAX/opamped_lampucera.html


wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #86 on: 20 May 2010, 07:11 am »
Hey, I just got some of those K73-16 caps for my B1 buffer. Only in 10 min. and I like them already. Totally unexpected sound. Thought they were going to be harsh, but they are sweet as honey.

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #87 on: 20 May 2010, 07:18 am »
FWIW, the always interesting Lukaz has been mucking about with these inexpensive DACs -
http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/CD%20DAC%20Lampucera%20lampizator.html

Interesting read, but I do wish he'd keep the leads of his decoupling caps shorter...
For those looking to simplify their opamp outputs, removing coupling caps and biasing a bipolar input opamp deeper into class A and removing the ouput offset -



http://www.lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/LAMPUCERA/MAX/opamped_lampucera.html

What I would love is if someone would actually do a step by step of his lampizator (or the minilamp that he's now raving about), I'm not an EE type and although I can follow the schematics if I try really hard I need actual visuals to keep me from screwing up. His minilampizator looks intriguing.

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #88 on: 20 May 2010, 07:23 am »
Let us know your progress.  That one does sound interesting!

What all is needed to get it working?

Finally got it about 10 days ago. Looks really nice, better quality than the gigawork. Just needs a transformer, coaxial input, that's it. Since my B1 has turned out even better than I'd hoped, I'll get this project going soon.

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #89 on: 20 May 2010, 07:26 am »
Hey!

     No problem. :D

     And here is my NOS DAC Kit with 4 TDA1543 D/A chips running in paralleled.


     "I am completely operational, and all my circuits are functioning perfectly."



The PCB board fitted in an IKEA "BJURON" wooden planter. With kit project I always find that finding enclosure for the kit is the hard part sometime. I looked around and came across thie IKEA wooden planter. The inside was almost 1/8" too short so I had to sand off the PCB and the inside of the box with Dremal  to make it fit. This box measure 6.25X6.25X5". There's a bigger box of the same type but it will be too big.



The back with BNC and Optical input and output. I didn't put ON/OFF switch yet... forgot to get one.  :icon_lol: Fitting those jacks was a bit tricky since I can't drill from the inside. So I had to make recesses into the box to make them fit. Unfortunately I made mistake with the hole in the middle and have to patch it up. I guess I could make a label about the DAC and cover it. :wink:



   Underneath, the transformer is a Signal Transformer "Flathead" LP-20-1200 0-10V 1-10V 24VA. As mentioned before I did 2 upgrades on this. 1. Stock diodes to Schottky type. 2. Stock caps to Russian K73-16 22uf 63V with Jensen PIO Copper as by pass.



   Here's the DAC in my system.

   Anyway the original output caps was ELNA CE-BP 22uf 50V with small green of which I think is ERO .1uf 100V used as by pass cap. Overall the combination of both stocks caps sound harsh, bright and thin side without any body or dimension even after 50 hours of break-in using my cable box and feed the TV. I first try it without the ERO .1uf by pass caps solved the brightness problem but the sound turn dark and flat.

    So, after a little research I went with a matched pair of Russian K73-16 also picked up off eBay from a very good seller. Surprisingly the K73-16 sound very good by themselves. But was a bit flat and can use a little more open top. So, this is where a by pass cap came in. I tried a few that I have left from previous projects and upgrade, from cheap orange drop to MIT RTX ranging from .1uf to .47uf. But I settled on .22uf Jensen copper PIO cap. At .22uf it fall in at 1% of the 22uf main cap which is just fine. BTW... this is my favorite signal cap I used this type in both my pre and amp.

   As for the sound. Well, I haven't have much time on it yet. But so far it sound very good. Playing CD it sound very analog-like. Very smooth with sound stage the a bit farther back then some of the 24/96+ DAC I've heard. I'm not into the "in your face" sound so this fit me well. But it can lack a bit of dynamic compared to opamp or tube buffered output DAC. Well, I don't mind that.

   I like the sound of NOS DAC playing CD. And this DAC is very nice simple NOS DAC. No OPAMP or buffer after the DAC chip, the I/V is passive.  So this little inexpensive DAC will stay in my system for a while.

    It is a different sound than the 24/96+ DACs out there. Although there some exceptions but not many.

   Well, if anyone else using this DAC I would love to hear how it sound in your system. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Beautiful build by the way.

So is the stylus still good on that old turntable or what?  :wink:

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #90 on: 23 May 2010, 06:43 pm »
The AD1865 DAC is up and running. I've more or less followed the Lampizator mods, plus a few extra. As has been noted both on the Lampizator site and on diyaudio w/ the Andrea Ciuoffoli DAC (which the ebay AD1865 is partly based on) the sound is a little dark. I didn't listen to it stock so I can only imagine it's even more so out of the box. However, all the mods have opened it up some. It's a very different sound from the gigawork and I will need some time to really decide if I like it or not.

It does have a more 'natural' tone, more intimate, the HF is slightly rolled off at the top. The bass is very prominent. It is definitely more balanced tonally than my gigawork. Whether this is due to the values I used for the gigawork/tranformer mod or just inherent in the DAC, I don't know, but the AD1865 certainly wins in that regard.

The gigawork is slightly more on the solid state sound side of the spectrum. The AD1865, on the tube side. I think that's a quick way to sum it up. More info and thoughts to come.








wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #91 on: 25 May 2010, 07:51 pm »
Absolutely!  Any time... I play well with others (mostly see: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79128.new;topicseen#new ) and I share my toys.

Dave

Hey Dave, I've been listening to the AD1865 DAC I mentioned above and it' very promising so far. I really like it, but I am sure it can be improved. My biggest gripe so far is it's a little recessed in the HF. Anyhoos, I'm no expert on this stuff but usually a place to start w/ mods are the output caps. I notice with the schematic that the jfet output stage has a 100 ohm resitor followed by a 47uf cap. Is this some kind of filter? Any way to alter these values to benefit? Just curious... :scratch:









jtwrace

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Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #92 on: 26 May 2010, 02:47 pm »
That was a quick 60 days. 

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #93 on: 26 May 2010, 06:10 pm »

That was a quick 60 days.

Moving sucks  :evil:

SET Man

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #94 on: 27 May 2010, 01:14 am »
Hey, I just got some of those K73-16 caps for my B1 buffer. Only in 10 min. and I like them already. Totally unexpected sound. Thought they were going to be harsh, but they are sweet as honey.

Hey!

   That is what I'm hearing too. Better than I expected especially for the price. Maybe we should keep this quiet to keep the price of these cap low, eh?  :shh:

Beautiful build by the way.

So is the stylus still good on that old turntable or what?  :wink:

   Thanks :D

    Old turntable? You mean the old talking machine? Actually you have to change the steel needle after every play. Reusing the steel needle will damage the old 78rpm shellac record. :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

stokessd

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #95 on: 28 May 2010, 02:33 am »
jb, I think that you are missing my point on this.  This is a DIY thread about taking some cheap, run of the mill DACs and doing some simple mods on them to improve their performance.  There is no one on this thread that I know of that assumes that it can provode SOTA performance.  All we want to do is make something that is OK, better... good enough th be a DAC that we don't hate listening to and to have a little satisfaction in know that it sounds better because we had our hands in it.  No more, no less.

Dave


I think with some simple mods, this DAC has the potential to get quite close to SOTA.  The chip set is certainly capable of it.  The DIP adapters are a bit of a bummer from a good grounding and high speed signal integrity standpoint, but that said, this circuit has more right about it than wrong. 

With respect to regulators, if you don't like the run of the mill LM317 class regulators, you can drop in some Linear Tech 1086's and the like (The LT equivalent 317's), for a bit of a performance increase.  But you will be limited to the benefit any regulator can give you when the chips are hung up in the air on the DIP adapters.  Judicious capacitor bypassing will help you more than regulator changing.  you need ceramic caps right up next to the pins.  The one thing that should be watched closely is the power feeding that reclocking oscillator.  That's where you need the cleanest purest power in the whole unit.  Fortunately that's also easy to do with a little finesse. 

The most interesting thing about this design, it that the circuitry is so well thought out, and even the op-amps have been pretty well selected for good sound (I can't complain about the OPA627's that came with my unit), but they have crummy electrolytic caps in the signal path.  I can live with the second buffer op-amp, but the caps have to go.  On the next board turn, if they were to  put some reasonable polyprop ones in there, the unit would be a real world-beater at $120 nekkid or $250 with enclosure. 

Myself, I built a similar design with Lundahl LL1690's serving up the analog, and that is really heaven vs. the op-amps.  My design also gets the chips down against a ground plane and the decoupling caps close close close. 

In summary, this is a hell of a steal at $120.  A few simple mods and you are firmly in the land of diminishing returns. 

Sheldon


wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #96 on: 28 May 2010, 08:25 am »

I think with some simple mods, this DAC has the potential to get quite close to SOTA.  The chip set is certainly capable of it.  The DIP adapters are a bit of a bummer from a good grounding and high speed signal integrity standpoint, but that said, this circuit has more right about it than wrong. 

With respect to regulators, if you don't like the run of the mill LM317 class regulators, you can drop in some Linear Tech 1086's and the like (The LT equivalent 317's), for a bit of a performance increase.  But you will be limited to the benefit any regulator can give you when the chips are hung up in the air on the DIP adapters.  Judicious capacitor bypassing will help you more than regulator changing.  you need ceramic caps right up next to the pins.  The one thing that should be watched closely is the power feeding that reclocking oscillator.  That's where you need the cleanest purest power in the whole unit.  Fortunately that's also easy to do with a little finesse. 

The most interesting thing about this design, it that the circuitry is so well thought out, and even the op-amps have been pretty well selected for good sound (I can't complain about the OPA627's that came with my unit), but they have crummy electrolytic caps in the signal path.  I can live with the second buffer op-amp, but the caps have to go.  On the next board turn, if they were to  put some reasonable polyprop ones in there, the unit would be a real world-beater at $120 nekkid or $250 with enclosure. 

Myself, I built a similar design with Lundahl LL1690's serving up the analog, and that is really heaven vs. the op-amps.  My design also gets the chips down against a ground plane and the decoupling caps close close close. 

In summary, this is a hell of a steal at $120.  A few simple mods and you are firmly in the land of diminishing returns. 

Sheldon

Thanks for your thoughts Sheldon.

I have just replaced the Panasonic FCs in the AD1865 DAC w/ Os-cons, and clearly it's what I should have done in the first place; the 'dark' sound is all gone and what I am hearing now is really, really good. Over the next few weeks I'll compare the two DACs. I think they appeal to different tastes. But this AD1865 I think just might hold it's own against the Gigawork w/ tranny mod...

playing w/ dacs is fun. 8)


Kwikas

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Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #97 on: 29 May 2010, 05:46 am »
Hi Guys.

First post here and I came across this thread while googling DAC's so I hope you wont mind if I drop in and ask a few questions.

I'm interested in finding a DAC that can accept 8 channels of spdif in. Are any of the ones you are talking about modding in this thread capable of doing this? I suspect they're all 2 channel but would appreciate knowing if this is the case.

The DAC I'm after is for home cinema (obviously) but I can't seem to find anything that suits what I'm after. Perhaps I'll have to get 4 x 2 channel DAC's but I'm hoping you may be able to offer up some assistance.

Thanks a lot.

stokessd

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 12
Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #98 on: 29 May 2010, 01:41 pm »
Hi Guys.

First post here and I came across this thread while googling DAC's so I hope you wont mind if I drop in and ask a few questions.

I'm interested in finding a DAC that can accept 8 channels of spdif in. Are any of the ones you are talking about modding in this thread capable of doing this? I suspect they're all 2 channel but would appreciate knowing if this is the case.

The DAC I'm after is for home cinema (obviously) but I can't seem to find anything that suits what I'm after. Perhaps I'll have to get 4 x 2 channel DAC's but I'm hoping you may be able to offer up some assistance.

Thanks a lot.


The input chip in the gigaworks DAC can take up to 4 inputs (in hardware mode), but that is 4 discrete SPDIF streams you choose from like an input selector, not simultaneously.  SPDIF is a two channel protocol, there is no provision in SPDIF for doing more than two AFAIK.  So you would need to run four streams for eight channels.  Thus four DAC's etc. 

Sheldon

wushuliu

Re: DIY DAC Kits and Easy Mods
« Reply #99 on: 29 May 2010, 04:25 pm »


The one thing that should be watched closely is the power feeding that reclocking oscillator.  That's where you need the cleanest purest power in the whole unit.  Fortunately that's also easy to do with a little finesse. 

Sheldon

Sheldon, could you elaborate? What would this entail?