AudioCircle
Other Stuff => Archived Manufacturer Circles => Vinnie Rossi => Topic started by: zybar on 13 May 2016, 10:05 pm
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I received my upgraded DAC module today so that it could power the Sonore microRendu when using any of the digital inputs on the LIO. It was taking the place of the stock power supply that came with the UpTone Regen that I had been using for the past week with the microRendu.
The improvement across the board is not subtle and is in fact quite substantial. If you are planning on using the microRendu and the LIO DAC module, this is a killer upgrade for a relatively small investment.
For the past few hours I have been playing my test songs and on each and every one, things are "mo better!!"
When I can pull myself away from listening I'll write up my notes on some of the test songs.
George
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Sounds cool and I am not sure what all is needed the add a power output to the DAC module, but $400 seems a lot to me. :(
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Sounds cool and I am not sure what all is needed the add a power output to the DAC module, but $400 seems a lot to me. :(
It's a whole kit. USB Cable, power cable, panel mount connector, Belleson Regulator, labor and it's a business so he can actually feed his family so there's profit. :thumb: It's an amazing concept!
Well worth it to me!
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It's a whole kit. USB Cable, power cable, panel mount connector, Belleson Regulator, labor and it's a business so he can actually feed his family so there's profit. :thumb: It's an amazing concept!
Yeah, as I wrote I wasn't sure what all comes with the upgraded module. Thanks for the clarification.
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Hi George,
Thanks for posting your impressions! 8)
so that it could power the Sonore microRendu when using any of the digital inputs on the LIO.
This is a very important thing to note:
The microRendu power output option for the LIO DSD/PCM DAC is *only* active when you select the LIO DAC
as your input source.
The reason is because when you don't select the DAC, the LIO internally shuts off power to the DAC (e.g. if you are
using the analog inputs or the LIO phonostage, power to the LIO DAC is switched OFF). And this is the same
power (from the ultracap banks) that feeds the Belleson super-regulator used for the microRendu output. So PWR to the
microRendu is also switched OFF if you do not select the LIO DAC as your source (specifically, "D3" is the USB INPUT).
microRendu boots up very quickly (under a minute), but if you are looking to leave your microRendu turned ON 24/7, then
this is NOT the option for you.
It's a whole kit. USB Cable, power cable, panel mount connector, Belleson Regulator, labor and it's a business so he can actually feed his family so there's profit. :thumb: It's an amazing concept!
Well worth it to me!
Correct - you receive the following:
- Belleson super-regulator is mounted to the LIO DAC rear plate, and all wired up
- A power output jack (Switchcraft twist lock) for microRendu is installed on LIO DAC rear plate
- An approx. 1 foot long power jumper cable is included (for connecting to the microRendu PWR input)
- An approx. 6 inch USB jumper is included (for connecting from microRendu USB output to LIO DAC USB INPUT).
I hope this makes things more clear. Please let me know if you have questions.
Thank you,
Vinnie
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microRendu boots up very quickly (under a minute), but if you are looking to leave your microRendu turned ON 24/7, then
this is NOT the option for you.
Vinnie-
And if someone is "only" using the LIO as a Pre/DAC with the mRendu power option - is there any reason they should power down the LIO? I'd assume it sounds better if left on, like most DACs and electronics.
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Vinnie-
And if someone is "only" using the LIO as a Pre/DAC with the mRendu power option - is there any reason they should power down the LIO? I'd assume it sounds better if left on, like most DACs and electronics.
If you have the AVC/Tubestage you might not want to have the tubes on all day while not being used. I think it all depends on your use. If you will turn it on every night then leaving it on all day could be OK depending on what tubes you have installed though.
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If you will turn it on every night then leaving it on all day could be OK depending on what tubes you have installed though.
Can you list some, please? I thought they would fade out even if there is no signal, but the power is on.
Related to the Tubestage jumper. Does device turn on promptly if the jumper is set to skip the Tubestage or it still has the 30 sec warm up feature activated?
What would you describe the sound with/without the Tubestage switched on?
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Hi Zybar,
What were you using before the microRendu?
I'm using the Auralic Aries + Uptone Regen and I'm curious if there is such a relevant difference from this set-up to the microRendu + Uptone.
Thanks
Lutry
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Can you list some, please? I thought they would fade out even if there is no signal, but the power is on.
Related to the Tubestage jumper. Does device turn on promptly if the jumper is set to skip the Tubestage or it still has the 30 sec warm up feature activated?
What would you describe the sound with/without the Tubestage switched on?
Yes, that's what I was attempting to say. Leaving the tubes powered on will degrade them over time. I haven't even tried the bypass yet so I'm of no help. I've been busy - LISTENING! :lol:
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Hi Zybar,
What were you using before the microRendu?
I'm using the Auralic Aries + Uptone Regen and I'm curious if there is such a relevant difference from this set-up to the microRendu + Uptone.
Thanks
Lutry
Before the microRendu, I was using a purpose built Windows 8 PC running Jriver or Roon.
So the chain was one of these two:
Win 8 PC -> UpTone Regen w/ stock PS -> LIO DAC
Win 8 PC -> UpTone Regen w/ stock PS -> Auralic Vega DAC
The UpTone Regen and Vega are plugged into a Pi Audio Uber Buss.
Give me a day or two to compare these two setups:
microRendu powered by LIO -> LIO DAC
microRendu powered by UpTone Regen PS or iFi PS -> Auralic Vega plugged into a Pi Audio Uber Buss
George
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Vinnie-
And if someone is "only" using the LIO as a Pre/DAC with the mRendu power option - is there any reason they should power down the LIO? I'd assume it sounds better if left on, like most DACs and electronics.
Hi firedog,
The main reason to power down the LIO after each use is to save energy, and if you are running tubes, you are clocking more hours
on the filaments. Of course there are two schools of thought regarding what wears them out more (leaving them on all the time when not in use, or the cycling of power). Who really knows? LIO turns them on very gently, so I'm fine with cycling the power.
- I personally PWR down the LIO after each use and do not find that it takes long to warm up and sound its best. It sounds great as
soon as it turns ON and is ready to go after the 30 second warm up sequence. And I don't mind the "ritual" of turning it back ON
and queuing up the next LP or track on the computer. That's just me... :lol:
- I have read on the Sonore forum that the microRendu *could* sound different with warm up time, but in all honesty, it sounds the same
to me. As soon as it boots up and starts playing music, it sounds fantastic.
But the decision to leave on / turn off is up to the user.
Related to the Tubestage jumper. Does device turn on promptly if the jumper is set to skip the Tubestage or it still has the 30 sec warm up feature activated?
Hi mirekti,
The AVC/Tubestage does not send a signal back to the LIO saying "tubestage is now bypassed" - so the delay is still 30 seconds.
If you only had an RVC volume control (with no tubestage module populated in the LIO), then there would not be the 30 second warm up mute delay.
Also - if the LIO MOSFET AMP was separately turned OFF on the front panel ("AMP" button set to OFF), and you turn it back ON, there
is an approx. 10 second mute delay. This is to allow the amp to power up / stabilize before we un-mute it to avoid any pops.
I haven't even tried the bypass yet so I'm of no help. I've been busy - LISTENING! :lol:
Glad to hear this, jtwrace! :thumb: That was the whole point of it. Turn it ON, LISTEN, and ENJOY how good it makes your favorite music sound.
Discussing things like "leave it on / turn it off", delay time, etc. is such a drag compared to just listening and enjoying it. At
least we don't have to talk about power cords, dedicated mains, and outlets here - Lol! :green:
Give me a day or two to compare these two setups:
microRendu powered by LIO -> LIO DAC
microRendu powered by UpTone Regen PS or iFi PS -> Auralic Vega plugged into a Pi Audio Uber Buss
George
Looking forward to your comparisons, George!
Vinnie
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I can confirm what Vinnie is saying about warm up/power down etc. I power the LIO up at the start of listening time and off again at the end each day, and have never noticed a difference. Once the power supply is on and fully charged, switching from Phono to DAC and back, which turns power on/off to the modules separately, I couldn't really tell any difference vs time there either. It's all good :thumb:
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I can confirm this as well. When I first got my LIO I turned it on when I got home and left it on until bedtime, but this was just an old habit. After reading Vinnie's advice on saving power I began turning it on just before using (I don't have the tube stage or DHT) and off when taking a break (like for dinner). There is no audible difference so I'm sticking with the greener routine. Might help save the planet over the next few millennia or at least a few pennies on the electric bill.
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I have the AVC/Tubstage, I always turn LIO off when I don't use it and then for my listening I turn it on. Same thing for my acitve speakers.The 30 s wait time is no problem for me, it's almost a welcome intro for my music session. But Sound Quality is improving clearly form starting till perhaps 30 minutes, but it's already very good just from start. I turn it off because of energy safing to not waste energy for nothing. I see, that wouldn' be suitable for everybody but we are here not on an averege audio level ... .
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Just to clarify for my simple brain--this device essentially is ensuring best transmission of digital data through a USB port to the DAC? This article seems to explain it well--
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/698-sonore-microrendu-review-part-1/
Thanks in advance.
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Just to clarify for my simple brain--this device essentially is ensuring best transmission of digital data through a USB port to the DAC? This article seems to explain it well--
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/698-sonore-microrendu-review-part-1/
Thanks in advance.
If you're asking, yes, it's a bridge. It works very well.
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If you're asking, yes, it's a bridge. It works very well.
Thank you. I think that's what I'm asking. Currently my path is:
mac--airport express--optical line--LIO
and it would change to:
mac--airport express--microrendu--USB--LIO.
The confusing thing is that in this particular situation I'm adding a component which seems counterintuitive to sound quality and simplicity. However, I'm guessing that the improvement is that I'm using USB instead of toslink optical?
Thanks again
Matthew
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Thank you. I think that's what I'm asking. Currently my path is:
mac--airport express--optical line--LIO
and it would change to:
mac--airport express--microrendu--USB--LIO.
The confusing thing is that in this particular situation I'm adding a component which seems counterintuitive to sound quality and simplicity. However, I'm guessing that the improvement is that I'm using USB instead of toslink optical?
Thanks again
Matthew
Are you using the DSD Dac in the LIO?
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mac--airport express--microrendu--USB--LIO.
The confusing thing is that in this particular situation I'm adding a component which seems counterintuitive to sound quality and simplicity. However, I'm guessing that the improvement is that I'm using USB instead of toslink optical?
Hi Matthew,
This is exactly how I am running it (and I also did so at AXPONA and will next week at Newport Beach show):
macbook / Roon software (wireless) -->> airport express (ethernet cable out) -->> microrendu (usb jumper cable out) -->> LIO USB input on dac. [And microRendu is powered by a super-regulated output feed from LIO's ultracap banks]
The microRendu / Roon software is clearly better sounding than even using the USB out of the Macbook running Audirvana Plus. I posted about this here in the VR forum, and on the microRendu forum on computeraudiophile.com.
This of microRendu as a dedicated piece of hardware that was designed only to create the cleanest USB stream to your dac. You will not be limited to 96kHz resolution via the airport express's optical output. Now you can play DSD, double DSD, and up to 32-bit / 384kHz that LIO's dac can handle via the USB input.
So while it is adding one more small component (microRendu), it is a higher bandwidth feed to LIO's dac and a much cleaner digital signal. And Roon playback software is top notch!
Expect a big improvement!
Vinnie
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Hi Matthew,
This is exactly how I am running it (and I also did so at AXPONA and will next week at Newport Beach show):
macbook / Roon software (wireless) -->> airport express (ethernet cable out) -->> microrendu (usb jumper cable out) -->> LIO USB input on dac. [And microRendu is powered by a super-regulated output feed from LIO's ultracap banks]
The microRendu / Roon software is clearly better sounding than even using the USB out of the Macbook running Audirvana Plus. I posted about this here in the VR forum, and on the microRendu forum on computeraudiophile.com.
This of microRendu as a dedicated piece of hardware that was designed only to create the cleanest USB stream to your dac. You will not be limited to 96kHz resolution via the airport express's optical output. Now you can play DSD, double DSD, and up to 32-bit / 384kHz that LIO's dac can handle via the USB input.
So while it is adding one more small component (microRendu), it is a higher bandwidth feed to LIO's dac and a much cleaner digital signal. And Roon playback software is top notch!
Expect a big improvement!
Vinnie
Got it, thanks so much for helping me to understand!
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Hi Matthew,
This is exactly how I am running it (and I also did so at AXPONA and will next week at Newport Beach show):
macbook / Roon software (wireless) -->> airport express (ethernet cable out) -->> microrendu (usb jumper cable out) -->> LIO USB input on dac. [And microRendu is powered by a super-regulated output feed from LIO's ultracap banks]
The microRendu / Roon software is clearly better sounding than even using the USB out of the Macbook running Audirvana Plus. I posted about this here in the VR forum, and on the microRendu forum on computeraudiophile.com.
This of microRendu as a dedicated piece of hardware that was designed only to create the cleanest USB stream to your dac. You will not be limited to 96kHz resolution via the airport express's optical output. Now you can play DSD, double DSD, and up to 32-bit / 384kHz that LIO's dac can handle via the USB input.
So while it is adding one more small component (microRendu), it is a higher bandwidth feed to LIO's dac and a much cleaner digital signal. And Roon playback software is top notch!
Expect a big improvement!
Vinnie
Ok, I think I'm finally understanding it. Thanks for the explanation. When I send you the tube stage and rvc for the DHT pre then I'll send you the DAC as well so we can get the updates done all at once. :)
Thx again,
Matthew
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Ok, I think I'm finally understanding it. Thanks for the explanation. When I send you the tube stage and rvc for the DHT pre then I'll send you the DAC as well so we can get the updates done all at once. :)
Thx again,
Matthew
You will be in for quite a treat when you get both modules.
George
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You will be in for quite a treat when you get both modules.
George
I hope so!
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I hope so!
You will!
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Microrendu review on Computer Audiophile, part 2:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/705-sonore-microrendu-review-part-2/
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MicroRendu in the house. Arrived yesterday. No power supply yet; waiting for the DHT so I can cannibalize the LIO all at once. I'll update my personal LIO thread when all the components are ready. Until then, I'm doing a lot of listening with my new Dragonfly.
(http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp15/matthewpartrick/image_2.jpeg) (http://s393.photobucket.com/user/matthewpartrick/media/image_2.jpeg.html)
Here's a noob question: does "NAS" infer that the hard drive -has- to be attached to the router via ethernet, or will the microrendu allow one to go directly from NAS device --ethernet--microrendu? I am running a 2TB Time Capsule right now.
P.S. Does anyone know what the highest resolution file that iTunes will load into the cloud now? It used to block some of my really big files, but that apparently resolved itself within the past few months...
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Microrendu review on Computer Audiophile, part 2:
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/705-sonore-microrendu-review-part-2/
Hi matthewpartrick,
Thanks for the link!
Here's a noob question: does "NAS" infer that the hard drive -has- to be attached to the router via ethernet, or will the microrendu allow one to go directly from NAS device --ethernet--microrendu? I am running a 2TB Time Capsule right now.
I think I recall seeing a similar question on the Sonore forum on computeraudiophile, and that you should still be connecting
to a router. But double check with Jesus / Sonore, as there might be a way to get around it.
P.S. Does anyone know what the highest resolution file that iTunes will load into the cloud now? It used to block some of my really big files, but that apparently resolved itself within the past few months...
Not sure - but I remember iTunes being able to see a 24/192 file as such (but it will not playback at 24/192 when using iTunes, as you probably know). Check out Roon, and you can have it point to your iTunes folder (and many other music folders) and you'll get
higher quality, lossless playback with your microRendu. It is well worth it, IMO!
Vinnie
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Yes, I'm going to go with Roon. I'm fiddling around with it now, trying to get it to see the music folder. I was using Audirvana+ for a while which I wasn't that crazy about. Hopefully Roon will work out better. So far it's a little frustrating to be honest, but I guess that's because I'm so used to the iTunes interface.
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Hi Vinnie,
SOtm, which seems to be associated somehow with Sonore, is introducing the sMS-200 which appears to be similar to the microRendu except that it also allows playback from usb hard drive (in addition to ethernet).
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/
Any chance that it can be powered from the LIO?
It needs 6.5V-14V / 15W max.
Thanks
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Hi Vinnie,
SOtm, which seems to be associated somehow with Sonore, is introducing the sMS-200 which appears to be similar to the microRendu except that it also allows playback from usb hard drive (in addition to ethernet).
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/
Any chance that it can be powered from the LIO?
It needs 6.5V-14V / 15W max.
Thanks
Sonore is a distributor in the US for SOtM. The mR (Sonore) and SMS-200 are definitely competing products.
FYI, Sonore told us elsewhere that they purposely didn't add playback from USB drive to the mRendu, as that increases the noise produced by the device. Everyone has their own ideas about which features they want on devices.
I'm not saying that to say one product is better than the other. When the SMS-200 gets into enough hands, I'm sure a few will be able to directly compare it to the mRendu.
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Hi Vinnie,
SOtm, which seems to be associated somehow with Sonore, is introducing the sMS-200 which appears to be similar to the microRendu except that it also allows playback from usb hard drive (in addition to ethernet).
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/
Any chance that it can be powered from the LIO?
It needs 6.5V-14V / 15W max.
Thanks
Hi trcks,
I don't have plans to offer power output jacks from LIO to other devices at this time. So for now, its only microRendu.
Vinnie
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Is the USB input of the LIO galvanically isolated, or if not, does the microRendu isolate it from the computer system?
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Is the USB input of the LIO galvanically isolated, or if not, does the microRendu isolate it from the computer system?
Hi kdbrink,
Yes, the USB input of LIO (as well as coax input) is galvanically isolated.
Vinnie
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Yes, I'm going to go with Roon. I'm fiddling around with it now, trying to get it to see the music folder. I was using Audirvana+ for a while which I wasn't that crazy about. Hopefully Roon will work out better. So far it's a little frustrating to be honest, but I guess that's because I'm so used to the iTunes interface.
This is still an issue for me. Trying to teach an ER doc how to write signal paths to files on remote drives is like herding cats hopped up on catnip laced with LSD. When I go to assign a pathway through Roon I can't even see the forward/backslash to see if I'm typing incorrectly, for one thing. In addition, since I'm running a MacBook Air and using a partitioned Time Capsule as my hard drive, I think that Roon finds that confusing. But it shouldn't since it's essentially network-attached storage. I have attempted to get the roonlabs.com community forum to help with this but they think I'm a troglodyte. Can anyone help me direct my signal path with Roon? I'd appreciate a PM from a sympathetic pseudo-geek who can magically eliminate my problems, especially before my 60 day trial runs out.
THx in advance.
Partrick
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Patrick... a 60day Roon trial...I only am getting 2 weeks!! How did you swing that?
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Patrick... a 60day Roon trial...I only am getting 2 weeks!! How did you swing that?
I have no idea...just what was on the website. Perhaps I was hallucinating, but I doubt I would make such a large miscalculation secondary to too much rum. :)
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I recommend vetting that your server is discoverable by microRendu before purchasing microRendu to know if other purchases may be needed. I have a SOtM SMS-1000 server running Logitech Media Server 7.8.0 with VortexBox SW Version 2.3. After struggling over the weekend trying to get microRendu to detect the server, I emailed Jesus at Sonore my issues. He promptly answered this morning that my SMS-1000 is not discoverable by the microRendu. He suggested the sonicTransporter range of product at Small Green Computer would be discoverable. I had incorrectly made the assumption that LMS running on the SMS-1000 and my network would be accessible by the microRendu.
Will
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I recommend vetting that your server is discoverable by microRendu before purchasing microRendu to know if other purchases may be needed. I have a SOtM SMS-1000 server running Logitech Media Server 7.8.0 with VortexBox SW Version 2.3. After struggling over the weekend trying to get microRendu to detect the server, I emailed Jesus at Sonore my issues. He promptly answered this morning that my SMS-1000 is not discoverable by the microRendu. He suggested the sonicTransporter range of product at Small Green Computer would be discoverable. I had incorrectly made the assumption that LMS running on the SMS-1000 and my network would be accessible by the microRendu.
Will
If you select squeezelite on the microrendu, then there is a chance it will then see your lms device. That worked for me on a vortexbox appliance running lms.
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If you select squeezelite on the microrendu, then there is a chance it will then see your lms device. That worked for me on a vortexbox appliance running lms.
I appreciate the suggestion; however, though I tried multiple times, including rebooting from microRendu web interface, it did not work. Squeezelite also would not stay Active if I switched menu tabs on its web menu. When I would come back it would show stopped. I also tried adding the microRendu to Configure Player in the VortexBox web menu. I detailed all my steps and had taken screen shots of them and enclosed on my email to Jesus. I have sent all this to Andrew Gillis for his recommendations for a fix and/or his equipment suggestions.
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I have a microRendu and Windows server setup. LMS on the server doesn't detect Squeezelite on the mR when other playback software, like JRiver or HQP are running simultaneously on the server. I have to close them first if they are running. Then LMS detects the mR as a player. Maybe you have a similar situation.
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I have a microRendu and Windows server setup. LMS on the server doesn't detect Squeezelite on the mR when other playback software, like JRiver or HQP are running simultaneously on the server. I have to close them first if they are running. Then LMS detects the mR as a player. Maybe you have a similar situation.
Good thought, but I do not have any other playback software running on the server.
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Hi Matthew,
This is exactly how I am running it (and I also did so at AXPONA and will next week at Newport Beach show):
macbook / Roon software (wireless) -->> airport express (ethernet cable out) -->> microrendu (usb jumper cable out) -->> LIO USB input on dac. [And microRendu is powered by a super-regulated output feed from LIO's ultracap banks]
The microRendu / Roon software is clearly better sounding than even using the USB out of the Macbook running Audirvana Plus. I posted about this here in the VR forum, and on the microRendu forum on computeraudiophile.com.
This of microRendu as a dedicated piece of hardware that was designed only to create the cleanest USB stream to your dac. You will not be limited to 96kHz resolution via the airport express's optical output. Now you can play DSD, double DSD, and up to 32-bit / 384kHz that LIO's dac can handle via the USB input.
So while it is adding one more small component (microRendu), it is a higher bandwidth feed to LIO's dac and a much cleaner digital signal. And Roon playback software is top notch!
Expect a big improvement!
Vinnie
The Roonlabs customer service gurus tell me now that I have Roon with microrendu up and running that Airport Express will not allow hi res file transfer. I call BS on this.
When you examine the signal path (the little green light just above the song progress bar) it shows that it's sample rate down-converting from 192 khz to 44.1 and then truncating from 24 bit to 16 bit. What the heck? My next step is to plug the ethernet directly in the back of the router and bypass the airport express, and this may "solve" the problem. But doesn't it defeat the purpose of streaming? This whole Roon/Rendu thing is going to take me a while to get used to. Any suggestions would be most helpful.
Thx in advance
Matthew
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The Roonlabs customer service gurus tell me now that I have Roon with microrendu up and running that Airport Express will not allow hi res file transfer. I call BS on this.
When you examine the signal path (the little green light just above the song progress bar) it shows that it's sample rate down-converting from 192 khz to 44.1 and then truncating from 24 bit to 16 bit. What the heck? My next step is to plug the ethernet directly in the back of the router and bypass the airport express, and this may "solve" the problem. But doesn't it defeat the purpose of streaming? This whole Roon/Rendu thing is going to take me a while to get used to. Any suggestions would be most helpful.
Thx in advance
Matthew
Hi Matthew,
I use Airport Express, Roon, and microRendu and get the purple light that indicates "Lossless" (no down converting). I can play DSD64, DSD128, and all PCM up to 32-bit / 384kHz. So I think they are mistaken. Sounds like a setup issue.
BTW, have you talked to Jesus R. of Sonore? He was the one who helped me get it all set up and he knows his stuff. See if you can talk directly with him and tell him that I also use the AE, Roon, and microRendu and it all works fine when he set me up.
Not sure what is going on there. If you can't reach him, I can try to help over the phone. At least we are using the same setup pretty much...
Vinnie
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Hi Matthew,
I use Airport Express, Roon, and microRendu and get the purple light that indicates "Lossless" (no down converting). I can play DSD64, DSD128, and all PCM up to 32-bit / 384kHz. So I think they are mistaken. Sounds like a setup issue.
BTW, have you talked to Jesus R. of Sonore? He was the one who helped me get it all set up and he knows his stuff. See if you can talk directly with him and tell him that I also use the AE, Roon, and microRendu and it all works fine when he set me up.
Not sure what is going on there. If you can't reach him, I can try to help over the phone. At least we are using the same setup pretty much...
Vinnie
Is there anything special that you're doing with setup?
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Is there anything special that you're doing with setup?
No - can't be. Airport Express is just a wireless router (I'm not using the optical out of AE). I'm using the Ethernet
out to the microRendu, and usb out of microRendu to LIO dac.
The Roon setup sees the microRendu, and I name the audio zone for it and select it. All lossless. But I'll check the settings
later tonight to look for clues...
Vinnie
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No - can't be. Airport Express is just a wireless router (I'm not using the optical out of AE). I'm using the Ethernet
out to the microRendu, and usb out of microRendu to LIO dac.
The Roon setup sees the microRendu, and I name the audio zone for it and select it. All lossless. But I'll check the settings
later tonight to look for clues...
Vinnie
Same here when I tried it, DSD64 and DSD128 were fine.
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Weird. Sometimes best just to sleep on these issues and revisit them with a fresh cup of coffee and a good nights sleep.
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May be unrelated but my microrendu is running very hot. Almost too hot to touch, got to be >120F. That can't be normal. Warm, yes, but hand burn no. Its power supply is currently iFi.
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May be unrelated but my microrendu is running very hot. Almost too hot to touch, got to be >120F. That can't be normal. Warm, yes, but hand burn no. Its power supply is currently iFi.
Should not be that hot! :o
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May be unrelated but my microrendu is running very hot. Almost too hot to touch, got to be >120F. That can't be normal. Warm, yes, but hand burn no. Its power supply is currently iFi.
Mine is on 24x7 and isn't that hot.
George
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I unplugged it until I have time off work to sort it out. Working a 24h shift today :o :duh:
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What are people using for short USB female to male interconnects lately?
Thx
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What are people using for short USB female to male interconnects lately?
Thx
I am using the PI Audio/ Triode Wire Labs microRendu USB dongle - sounds great and the women dig it!! :lol:
Besides sounding great, it isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg.
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=143567.0
George
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May be unrelated but my microrendu is running very hot. Almost too hot to touch, got to be >120F. That can't be normal. Warm, yes, but hand burn no. Its power supply is currently iFi.
FYI. Plugged in and doing nothing my microRendu is 86F. After playing music for an hour it was 96F. Room temp 72F
Steve
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FYI. Plugged in and doing nothing my microRendu is 86F. After playing music for an hour it was 96F. Room temp 72F
Steve
Hi Steve,
I think those are "normal" operating temps when using LIO uRendu's 7V output...
Vinnie
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I am using the PI Audio/ Triode Wire Labs microRendu USB dongle - sounds great and the women dig it!! :lol:
Thanks for that George, I needed a good laugh :thumb: :lol:.
Best,
Ed
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A happy ending to the microrendu saga. I spoke with Vinnie and Jesus at Sonore over the past few days and we were able to get my issues sorted out. Here's the synopsis.
After a week or so with some help from Vinnie Rossi and the awesome tech support at Sonore, we are up and running.
I first restarted my whole home wifi network, renaming the time capsule and getting new passwords. I then set up the airport express as a wireless network extender, which required to hard reset the airport express, and confirmed that the home network is indeed working. That required the airport utility.
The next step was to hook up the microrendu to the airport express via Ethernet cable. Once I ran diagnostics on the microrendu and confirmed we had the updated firmware, we moved on to ensuring the system was booting up on the correct order. It's important (apparently) that the DAC boot up first and then the microrendu. So, once I did that, the Microrendu automatically popped up in Roon as an audio out. To be clear I am not using the Airport Express as an AirPlay device, I'm using it as a wireless network extender.
Thanks so much to Vinnie Rossi and to Jesus from Sonore for their help. Just wanted to let you know how it all turned out for the best!
Matthew
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It's important (apparently) that the DAC boot up first and then the microrendu.
That's odd, as even if I leave my microRendu ON and turn OFF LIO (with dac), when I turn LIO back ON,
it connects very quickly to the microRendu / Roon interface.
Well - what matters is that you have it working and can start o listen and enjoy it! :thumb:
Thanks for your post,
Vinnie
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I don't care if I have to sacrifice a chicken and whip out the spirit gourds. As long as it's playing lossless music I'm happy! :)
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May be unrelated but my microrendu is running very hot. Almost too hot to touch, got to be >120F. That can't be normal. Warm, yes, but hand burn no. Its power supply is currently iFi.
Did you figure out the 'hot' issue too? Mine also got too hot to touch this weekend and I haven't been able to play DSD128 since that happened.
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Did you figure out the 'hot' issue too? Mine also got too hot to touch this weekend and I haven't been able to play DSD128 since that happened.
Hi tme110,
If you feed microRendu 7V (it might help to test the voltage to confirm it is correct), it should not get too hot to touch. If it is really that hot, then I recommend you contact Sonore about it as there could be something wrong.
It will get warm, but "too hot to touch" does not sound normal to me.
Cheers,
Vinnie
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It's not as hot now, I really didn't do anything except make sure it was in a well ventilated area. I'm not sure it was too hot last time.
Vinnie you're cross contaminating forums! :)
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It's not as hot now, I really didn't do anything except make sure it was in a well ventilated area. I'm not sure it was too hot last time.
Vinnie you're cross contaminating forums! :)
Position it so it's sitting on ti's side (long dimension horizontal) so the air flows up both the top and bottom. This will help and it will only slightly warm to the touch. 20-30*F above ambient is normal for most electrical devices.
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Position it so it's sitting on ti's side (long dimension horizontal) so the air flows up both the top and bottom. This will help and it will only slightly warm to the touch. 20-30*F above ambient is normal for most electrical devices.
Good idea--maybe tough with the triode wire usb interconnect but I think I can take it a step further and put some feet on it so it can get some bottom flow.
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It was going fine. I was using the mrendu for at least 2 full straight days of listening. Then I downloaded HQplayer for a trial, and upsampled everything to DSD128. No problems. A while later the music just stopped and when I touched the mRendu I thought it was going to melt. I wasn't able to play anything at any rate last night until I turned HQplayer off and just listed normally. I only got to redbook by the time I went to bed though. I'll be contacting sonore but last night I was busy trying to decide if the current issue was my computer or network or mRendu or what. I know I've got about 1000 cycles on my mute relay at this point.
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Here's another question that Vinnie has answered for me in the past but I'm having trouble again. Has anyone had a hard time getting the microrendu to recognize the DAC based on the order in which they were powered on?
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Here's another question that Vinnie has answered for me in the past but I'm having trouble again. Has anyone had a hard time getting the microrendu to recognize the DAC based on the order in which they were powered on?
No, but if you're using the µRednu with the LIO and power from the LIO Dac it will only really work on way. Power on the LIO including the amp if your LIO has it. Then select "d_3" as your input and you should then see the lights come on the µRendu. Once that has happened you should be good to go. Of course give the µRendu about 45 seconds to boot up.
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No, but if you're using the µRednu with the LIO and power from the LIO Dac it will only really work on way. Power on the LIO including the amp if your LIO has it. Then select "d_3" as your input and you should then see the lights come on the µRendu. Once that has happened you should be good to go. Of course give the µRendu about 45 seconds to boot up.
Yes, I figured that. That being said I still cannot to get it to work. Frustrating. I've kind of been having microrendu problems from the beginning and am about ready to deep-six it.
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Yes, I figured that. That being said I still cannot to get it to work. Frustrating. I've kind of been having microrendu problems from the beginning and am about ready to deep-six it.
That's so strange as mine has been flawless for the most part. It' s computer after-all. Can you see it on your phone or computer?
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That's so strange as mine has been flawless for the most part. It' s computer after-all. Can you see it on your phone or computer?
It's popping up as a networked device ok, but it's also doing that thing again where it's getting WAY overheated. I propped it on its side and put a fan on it, but it's still now hot enough to slowly fry an egg. I just unplugged it and am going to send it back to Jesus tomorrow.
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It's popping up as a networked device ok, but it's also doing that thing again where it's getting WAY overheated. I propped it on its side and put a fan on it, but it's still now hot enough to slowly fry an egg. I just unplugged it and am going to send it back to Jesus tomorrow.
So you're telling me that's it's so hot you can't keep a finger on it?
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So you're telling me that's it's so hot you can't keep a finger on it?
I could leave my finger on it for about five to seven seconds. It's probably 140-ish fahrenheit. It did this a while ago and then it stopped. Had no difference how well ventilated it was, but I switched iFi power supplies and that helped.
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I could leave my finger on it for about five to seven seconds. It's probably 140-ish fahrenheit. It did this a while ago and then it stopped. Had no difference how well ventilated it was, but I switched iFi power supplies and that helped.
That's bizarre. I have mine from the LIO (either one actually as I have two) and it doesn't get that hot. Warm but not hot. 20*F - 30*F over ambient is pretty normal for electronics but 140*F or so is really warm.
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BTW I have two nanopi neos that I won't be using that I'm willing to give to someone. They're the super stripped version that does not have ethernet in or usb out--you'd have to use the GPIO pin to access the boards, but hey' they're free :). PM me if you'd like them.
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Vinnie is there a limit to current from the 7 volt port to run the uRendu? I am thinking of running a y cable from it then power a Regen and the uRendu.
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Vinnie is there a limit to current from the 7 volt port to run the uRendu? I am thinking of running a y cable from it then power a Regen and the uRendu.
That will be fine. However, you really don't need to use the REGEN with the µRendu as it already has it built in.
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Vinnie is there a limit to current from the 7 volt port to run the uRendu? I am thinking of running a y cable from it then power a Regen and the uRendu.
Hi Theobetley,
I agree with jtwrace that it does not make sense to use the USB regen in front of the microRendu, as the USB regen circuit is already in the microRendu. And then you'd need another USB cable to connect from the USB regen to the microRendu, correct?
But if you wanted to run them both from the LIO DAC's microRendu output, it *should* be ok (but I have NOT tested this to confirm with 100% certainty).
Vinnie
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Thanks to both of you. I know that the Rendu has a Regen in it but before I had the uRendu I used double Regens to great affect.
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Would a third regen create even better SQ? :roll: I starts to get ridiculous. I'm certainly interested in purchasing the microrendu but I hate that feeling that there's always another gizmo needed to get that little extra improvement along with the extra cables.. :roll:
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It is not ridiculous if you already have a Regen and you just want to try. Also why not try anything that might improve your sound. Nobody is forcing you or anybody to try this.
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Also why not try anything that might improve your sound. Nobody is forcing you or anybody to try this.
j
Each time one puts something in the chain the sound will change. Such thing is many times presented as something better which is...
...one other funny thing can be corelated with photography. In many cases best colors are from that camera that renders them most pleasently, not the most precise one. I belive the same goes with the sound.
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I could leave my finger on it for about five to seven seconds. It's probably 140-ish fahrenheit. It did this a while ago and then it stopped. Had no difference how well ventilated it was, but I switched iFi power supplies and that helped.
The heating issue seems to be a little bit better. I am still powering it with the iFi iPower cord, and it's still hot-ish but not scalding. I changed out the power conditioner cord and maybe that helped, who knows. Anyhoo it's up and running currently. (har har.)
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reinforcing that I'm not the only one that's having a problem running the microrendu with the iFi power supply and it getting too hot:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/10/sonore-at-rmaf-2016-talisker-taste-on-a-teachers-budget/
This is an interesting solution especially if one needs to power multiple devices:
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/10/wyred-4-sound-tease-ps-1-modular-linear-psu-streamer-at-rmaf-2016/
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To the extent that I'm able to discuss issues with the MicroRendu on the board without overtly hassling them in public, I'll reiterate that my experience with this product is deteriorating. Their customer service is excellent, but there's just something persistently wrong with my system and it's begun to be such a hassle that I'm looking for another solution.
First, it was overheating with the iPower, at least that's to which I attributed its spotty behavior.
Then, the USB input on the LIO DAC died with no explanation which of course Vinnie fixed immediately (not his fault and again not trying to subvert a guy who's in the hospital with his wife and newborn! :) )
He checked my MR and said it was working fine, which it is albeit intermittently.
This is what I have to do to get mine to work.
1) Fire up the LIO and cycle through sources
2) Power up the MR (Yes I have to unplug it and plug it back in)
3) Check my home network to see if the MR is attached
4) Go to Airport Utility to make sure my home network is complete
5) Go to the sonicorbiter app and (in this order) go to DAC diagnostics to make sure the LIO DAC is showing up, then restart Roon Ready, then run RoonReady Diagnostics.
6) Quit and restart Roon to get the program to recognize the MR as an endpoint
7) press play
8 ) wait for the signal to not show up but the file plays
9) cycle through the LIO sources from digital to analog a few times, wait ten to fifteen seconds on each source
10) around the the third time, the signal comes through the speakers.
As you can imagine, I'm really tired of this hassle, and in the time it's taken me to troubleshoot this whole thing (maybe on and off for six months since I bought the MR) I've taught myself Linux and built two Raspberry Pi streamers that work great on the wifi network and automatically show up under Roon. Admittedly it took me like 20h to build the first one and maybe three or four to do the second one, buying a Raspberry Pi 3 with Hifiberry digi+ top board, installing Raspbian and RoonBridge, but now that they're up they work seamlessly. I won't comment on the sound because apparently I cannot tell the difference between the wifi Rpi3 and the ethernet hard-wired microrendu (That's for another day.)
Again, not trying to throw Sonore under the bus, and 110% supporting Vinnie's amazing product, dedication, and the best customer service I've experienced in my 40 years on this planet.
That said, has anyone else had this degree of challenge with the microrendu?
Thanks in advance
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That said, has anyone else had this degree of challenge with the microrendu?
Thanks in advance
No, as I've stated before my µRendu works perfectly everytime with my LIO.
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No, as I've stated before my µRendu works perfectly everytime with my LIO.
And you don't have to power on items in a specific order? Do you leave both units on all the time?
Thx
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duplicate post
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No, as I've stated before my µRendu works perfectly everytime with my LIO.
Same here.
George
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Can I suggest that the uRendu debugging conversation be broken out into a separate thread?
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And you don't have to power on items in a specific order? Do you leave both units on all the time?
Thx
I can leave it all on 24/7 and it works fine. I can also turn the LIO off and back on and it all works fine. My µRendu is powered by the LIO so it goes on when the LIO is powered on. My NAS and network is powered on 24/7 so the only change is the LIO and µRendu which turns on and then it connects to the network which can be seen by logging into it. It's flawless every time. If your µRendu isn't connecting after one minute I'd say you have network issues. Once the LIO is powered on and "d_3" is selected the µRendu gets power and should be starting it's boot-up process.
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I can leave it all on 24/7 and it works fine. I can also turn the LIO off and back on and it all works fine. My µRendu is powered by the LIO so it goes on when the LIO is powered on. My NAS and network is powered on 24/7 so the only change is the LIO and µRendu which turns on and then it connects to the network which can be seen by logging into it. It's flawless every time. If your µRendu isn't connecting after one minute I'd say you have network issues. Once the LIO is powered on and "d_3" is selected the µRendu gets power and should be starting it's boot-up process.
I had the LIO DAC MR power and had Vinnie reverse it bc I was having so many problems and figured if I got the miniDC 4ever supply that I could use it for items other than the MR. I know the network is an issue so I hope to resolve that soon. We are renovating our new house, gutting to the studs, and met the electrician yesterday to discuss running ethernet as well as coax, along with upgraded power outlets in the rooms I need them.
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Can I suggest that the uRendu debugging conversation be broken out into a separate thread?
And I'm wondering if it would be best suited for the Sonore circle. :scratch:
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I had the LIO DAC MR power and had Vinnie reverse it bc I was having so many problems and figured if I got the miniDC 4ever supply that I could use it for items other than the MR. I know the network is an issue so I hope to resolve that soon. We are renovating our new house, gutting to the studs, and met the electrician yesterday to discuss running ethernet as well as coax, along with upgraded power outlets in the rooms I need them.
How do you power the µRendu now?
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And I'm wondering if it would be best suited for the Sonore circle. :scratch:
Yes good point :)
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How do you power the µRendu now?
Mostly iPower wall wort after I changed the LIO dac back and am waiting the mini power supply
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Mostly iPower wall wort after I changed the LIO dac back and am waiting the mini power supply
Ah OK. So the iPower is powered on 24/7 but the LIO is off and the network isn't great. Makes sense now.
What happens if you try these two steps:
1) Leave the LIO on 24/7. I bet it works fine. Yes?
2) you reboot the µRendu using the sonicorbiter web page? I bet it will work flawless then.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153247)
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Ah OK. So the iPower is powered on 24/7 but the LIO is off and the network isn't great. Makes sense now.
What happens if you try these two steps:
1) Leave the LIO on 24/7. I bet it works fine. Yes?
2) you reboot the µRendu using the sonicorbiter web page? I bet it will work flawless then.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=153247)
YEs the iPower is plugged in 24/7 but in order to get it to be recognized by the network I have to unplug it and plug it back in. This also happened with the DAC power supply.
The LIO works flawlessly even if it's left on 24/7. I tend to turn the amp off so it gets a little cooler in the cabinet.
I've gone to the GUI and rebooted the MR several ways. First, I make sure the MR pops up on my home network. Then I go to reboot it as you show, and then I run DAC diagnostics to make sure it's seeing the DAC, then I restart RoonReady, then I run Roon diagnostics. It will typically work when I do this, but what I'm getting at is I shouldn't have to do this power-up sequence each time I turn the whole thing on. If I was able to leave the LIO on the whole time I guess it would be ok, but it does get a tad too hot in its cabinet. I need to close the doors daily because otherwise my toddlers would wreak havoc. So I know that ultimately it will better idea to put it on an open shelf out of reach and with great ventilation and a hardwired ethernet, but it will be about six months until I get into that situation. Until then I am perplexed that my hardware is so intermittently functional. Like I said, the homebuilt RaspPi3 wifi's into my network and automatically recognized the DAC and is recognized by Roon. I run these on cheap wall worts and have tried them with the iPower and they don't overheat.
Anyhoo I'll keep you posted on the progress.
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Here's a new microrendu problem: Anyone ever had it say it's playing, but no sound is coming through, and if one switches inputs from analog to digital, it plays about 0.5 seconds before going silent again?
Thx in advance.
Matthew
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Hi MP,
I just replied to your email...
Vinnie
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Here's a new microrendu problem: Anyone ever had it say it's playing, but no sound is coming through, and if one switches inputs from analog to digital, it plays about 0.5 seconds before going silent again?
Thx in advance.
Matthew
Yes, this sometimes happens for me too..Vinnie, MP(did you figure it out) or anyone know why?
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Here's a new microrendu problem: Anyone ever had it say it's playing, but no sound is coming through, and if one switches inputs from analog to digital, it plays about 0.5 seconds before going silent again?
Thx in advance.
Matthew
Sounds similar to a problem I had. Check to see if you have jumbo frames enabled anywhere and disable wherever you find it.
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Yes, this sometimes happens for me too..Vinnie, MP(did you figure it out) or anyone know why?
When you switch from digital inputs to analog inputs on the LIO, the power to the LIO DAC is removed internally.
So it sounds like by doing this (switching to analog input and then back to the USB input), you are essentially doing
the same as unplugging the USB cable and plugging it back in... which is sounds like resets the connection to the
microRendu.
It sounds like the micoRendu lost sync with the dac, and then syncs back up. Why is it losing sync? Not sure, but I
have found that static electricity causes this. But if I just wait (in Roon) 5 seconds, it syncs again.
Otherwise, I never have an issue like that and it just works w/o any hiccups.
Hi jpm,
Thanks for your post!
Vinnie
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... Check to see if you have jumbo frames enabled anywhere and disable wherever you find it.
I should have added that this was a solution specific to solving a problem with Roon -> microRendu, but being a somewhat obscure setting it's unlikely to be one that falls within normal troubleshooting steps.
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I have to admit I have no idea what jumbo frames are! :). Thanks for the help.
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It seems there's another device which could take things up to 12
https://youtu.be/TV-FvRF9KGA
The voltage needed is 9V as for MR, but not sure if 15W max consumption requires something else on LIO side.
Interesting times, indeed.
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It seems there's another device which could take things up to 12
https://youtu.be/TV-FvRF9KGA
The voltage needed is 9V as for MR, but not sure if 15W max consumption requires something else on LIO side.
Interesting times, indeed.
Hi mirekti,
Yes, and I'm sure we'll all see more of these type of devices in 2017.
Vinnie
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Thanks guys! Will keep you posted on what happens.
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It's working better now, but the bryston is still on my list to replace the streamer in my main 2 channel system
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It's working better now, but the bryston is still on my list to replace the streamer in my main 2 channel system
That's a giant step backwards IMO. Good Luck!
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That's a giant step backwards IMO. Good Luck!
Well, without badmouthing Sonore, I have had endless problems getting this little sucker to work consistently. I seem to be in the vast minority, and I have nothing but good things to say about them as a company and their product support. That being said, just today, while writing this, I had to:
1) unplug the MR
2) sonicorbiter.com
3) run DAC diagnostics
4) switch RoonReady on
This was after I had turned the LIO on and set it to the correct DAC input. This takes about three to five minutes each time I want to listen to music. While I appreciate the sonic fidelity I get with the MR and the good price, the troubles I've had with it just significantly outweigh the benefits. I'll try out a few streamers in the 1500-$2500 range now that my budget has improved and will let you know how it goes.
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Well, without badmouthing Sonore, I have had endless problems getting this little sucker to work consistently. I seem to be in the vast minority, and I have nothing but good things to say about them as a company and their product support. That being said, just today, while writing this, I had to:
1) unplug the MR
2) sonicorbiter.com
3) run DAC diagnostics
4) switch RoonReady on
This was after I had turned the LIO on and set it to the correct DAC input. This takes about three to five minutes each time I want to listen to music. While I appreciate the sonic fidelity I get with the MR and the good price, the troubles I've had with it just significantly outweigh the benefits. I'll try out a few streamers in the 1500-$2500 range now that my budget has improved and will let you know how it goes.
I'm sorry but you have something else going on there. What happens if you leave the LIO on 24/7?
I wish I was closer so I could fix it. Mine is flawless.
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I'm sorry but you have something else going on there. What happens if you leave the LIO on 24/7?
I wish I was closer so I could fix it. Mine is flawless.
That would solve the problem. But is that really a solution? I know that it's not harmful to the hardware to do so, but I'm not resorting to that plan just yet. I know that I have network issues at my house, so since I'm running cat6 ethernet in the walls at my new house, into which I'm moving circa May, then perhaps that will solve the issue. I won't do anything drastic until then.
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I'm sorry but you have something else going on there. What happens if you leave the LIO on 24/7?
I wish I was closer so I could fix it. Mine is flawless.
Not to rub it in, but mine is also flawless.
I turn mine on/off all the time with no issues.
George
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That would solve the problem. But is that really a solution? I know that it's not harmful to the hardware to do so, but I'm not resorting to that plan just yet. I know that I have network issues at my house, so since I'm running cat6 ethernet in the walls at my new house, into which I'm moving circa May, then perhaps that will solve the issue. I won't do anything drastic until then.
Sounds like it is a solution in your current setup. It's not an issue to leave it on 24/7 if you listen nearly daily anyway.
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Vinnie set up my DHT LIO with power output for uRendu so output is on all the time for potential use of uRendu with other dacs. I am running LMS, no Roon as yet. Downside for me on this is my need to restart Squeezelite via uRendu web interface or unplug power output and reattach after LIO has accomplished start-up and been set on digital input. It is a bit of a pain, but this configuration was done per my request. Sonic qualities of the DHT LIO with uRendu have been excellent. I have 2 other dacs, but find I seldom use the others now. The option I requested may be of benefit down the line, but knowing what I know now, I probably would have stayed with Vinnie's normal configuration for uRendu power output. I also requested Vinnie set up a Home Theater bypass switch on the rear of the LIO for use with my overall audio/video setup. It works very well, except when I have been gone for a couple weeks and forget about the setting :duh: